Ineresting immigrant approach

[Lynn7]

Arizona immigrant solution (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1924642&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312)

It's harsh but it will probably be a deterent. I also heard that the US is informing Mexicao where the Minute men are located so I can see why Arizona would not want to send its illegal immigrants to the feds.

[someguy]

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/NYET80005042243_sp.jpeg

"These bandido bastards won't be gardening or doing construction in my state any longer!"

[outsyder]

"And stay out of the Home Depot parking lot!"

[The Heart Collector]

The only good immigration approach is to put a bullet through the back of their heads AM I RITE

[outsyder]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
The only good immigration approach is to put a bullet through the back of their heads AM I RITE


I don't know . . . how much do bullets cost these days?

[bigred760]

Got this in an email; don't know how accurate it is but it's something to think about:


This letter sent to Tennessee Senator Bill Frist from a retired border patrol agent, and it has more common sense than all the bull being spewed from the Senate, with the exception of a few sensible representatives.

Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

#1.
Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction i s employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.

#2.
There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.

#3.
Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and dep ortation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.

#4.
Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.

#5.
This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

#6.
The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.

#7.
There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Mar xists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

#8.
Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.

#9.
Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?

#10.
There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

#11.
It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles peop le to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price? For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here? There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010. We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.

[Vong]

#5.
This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

How convenient to call your original settling "legal" when you annihilated entire cultures, pushed people off of their land and piss on them to this day.

[outsyder]

Originally posted by Vong
How convenient to call your original settling "legal" when you annihilated entire cultures, pushed people off of their land and piss on them to this day.

As if Canada didn't.

You personally are just as much to blame as big red is personally.

[bigred760]

Originally posted by outsyder
As if Canada didn't.

You personally are just as much to blame as big red is personally.

I swear I didn't do it. :p

While the "conquering" of this continent is not a high note in this planet's history, I think what the guy is referring to is that people coming to this land did it legally, didn't sneak in, or break any of the country's laws trying to find a home here.

Now, the ethics of it all is another matter entirely.

[BubbaStrangelove]

First off, I don't like anything that will result in unfair harrassment, which these posses most definately will. Don't get me wrong, here, I'm just saying that there is a certain bit of racism driving this whole posse thing, - the truth of the matter is that any one who is darker than white is going to have to show ID or proof of citizenship. That's lame in my book.

Yeah - our country has rapes, home invasions, car jackings, elderly being scammed, and all sorts of things that happen frequently on a daily basis - but nothing brings people together like getting rid of Mexicans. Yee fucking ha!

And defining yourself as a posse is pretty dorky. They're vigilantes - what the hell is this? Should I know be ordering sasparilla and challenging people to showdowns at high noon? Honky, please.

[bigred760]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
First off, I don't like anything that will result in unfair harrassment, which these posses most definately will. Don't get me wrong, here, I'm just saying that there is a certain bit of racism driving this whole posse thing, - the truth of the matter is that any one who is darker than white is going to have to show ID or proof of citizenship. That's lame in my book.

Yeah - our country has rapes, home invasions, car jackings, elderly being scammed, and all sorts of things that happen frequently on a daily basis - but nothing brings people together like getting rid of Mexicans. Yee fucking ha!

And defining yourself as a posse is pretty dorky. They're vigilantes - what the hell is this? Should I know be ordering sasparilla and challenging people to showdowns at high noon? Honky, please.

I agree; not so much with the sasparilla thing - but getting groups together to "hunt" illegal border crossers sounds like they're getting ready for a lynching. There needs to be a better way to prevent people from entering this country illegally. "Hunting" them down is not it.

[Lynn7]

I dont' think it is racism. We have a huge hispanic community near where I live and they meld into the community just fine. What I think the problem is is that people are streaming into our country and are not standing on their own two feet. They are taking services like in the hospitals and welfare etc that are costing the tax payers money. Onething that really bothered people is when the legislators wanted to give illegal aliens in-state tuition for the state collegs. That isnt even something that a fellow US citizen can get. Plus, if illegal alines take up spots inthe colleges, those are spots that could be used by the citizens who are paying taxes.

And most importantly, if we do not take measures to stop this, what will stop millions of poeple from coming here? People are living lives of great poverty in Mexico and they would love to come here to live. There has to be some firm protections in place. Mexico doesn't allow their poor neighbors to enter their country.

[BubbaStrangelove]

Of course you don't think it's racism, because racism would clearly be wrong and frowned upon.

What's less obvious is that you don't think it's slightly odd that crimes are committed - violent heinous crimes that are destroying America - yet the thing that brings together a posse is getting rid of Mexicans who shouldn't be here. A posse, none-the-less, because the mind-set is that this is seperated from just regular laws that good ole' Americans commit, or else they would be calling themselves vigilantes.

Instead of saying, "Yeah, that's kind of strange that people are so upset about this when children are being ass raped in basements, and there isn't nearly as much less uproar. Maybe we should spend more focus dealing with bigger criminal issues." you would further defend the posse that wants to get rid of Mexicans.

So, if none of this has to do with race, am I to assume it must be because people are just more tolerable with rapists, home burglars, corrupt businessmen, and other things that happen WAAYYYY more often than mexicans jumping fences and getting away with it.

We know about the FIRM stances politicians take on crime - first crack cocaine, and now illegal immigration. All the while cocaine importers are all but ignored and people offering jobs to illegals are a footnote.

But of course, racism is bad, so we should just rule that out of the equation and try and find another way to make sense of it.

[EVILxxx]

I heard on an interview that 10% of the minutemen are hispanic and that the #2 guy is a hispanic as well so I don't fully buy the racist redneck card.
And Bubba I would count "The neighborhood watch" as a group similar to the Minute men who look out for the crimes that you listed.

[Criminal Rock]

It’s very easy to pull the racist-card here... too easy in fact... until they start committing hate crimes against Mexicans, THEN we have a problem. But really, it’s nothing even remotely close to that, what they’re doing is totally legal/ethical, and the law which grants them that authority is anything but racist.

its not a “white vs. brown” thing, it’s a “citizen vs. alien” thing. Big difference.

I’ve met a few minute-men in my life (I’m actually working with one right now) none of them are racist, they just don’t like picking up dead bodies out from their backyard... it makes sense once you think about it.

[electriclite]

Originally posted by EVILxxx
I heard on an interview that 10% of the minutemen are hispanic and that the #2 guy is a hispanic as well so I don't fully buy the racist redneck card.



Not all hispanics like each other. Its a hierarchical thing.

[electriclite]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
It’s very easy to pull the racist-card here... too easy in fact... until they start committing hate crimes against Mexicans, THEN we have a problem. But really, it’s nothing even remotely close to that, what they’re doing is totally legal/ethical, and the law which grants them that authority is anything but racist.

its not a “white vs. brown” thing, it’s a “citizen vs. alien” thing. Big difference.

I’ve met a few minute-men in my life (I’m actually working with one right now) none of them are racist, they just don’t like picking up dead bodies out from their backyard... it makes sense once you think about it.


Yeah, but people have a tendency to slip into the negative when involving a different ethnicity "threatening" them. Remember the murders committed after 9/11 to men who were just the wrong shade of brown because they looked "like a terrorist"?

I can easily see, and have, (not presently but in the past) someone yelling at a Puerto Rican to stop stealing his job, or at the very least, the plot of Born in East LA coming to life ;)

[BubbaStrangelove]

First off - the constant misuse of the term 'race card' has been grating me on these boards.

"Playing the race card" means that you are trying to confuse or detract an argument by bringing race into the issue. MY ISSUE with this is that TO ME it is racist. That's my complaint. That's my argument. Period. You can't play a race card when your argument is solely about race. That would be like arguing that HEAT is a great movie and comparing it to other great movies and being accused of using the "great movie card" - I don't know if that analogy will register because it kind of sucks.

Calling Mark Furman a racist for arresting a black man who is suspected of murder is playing the race card in order to detract from the argument over whether or not he did it. Punching a security guard, and then saying you were arrested for being black is playing a race card in order to distract from the issue that you punched a law enforcement officer. Saying you think something is racist is called offering an opinion, not playing a race card. My sole argument is that to me this all seems like something that will fuel racism. If I was making another argument, yes - bringing up race would be playing a race card.

Please.

If you really want to talk about race card, consider this definition:

In the second context, it refers to someone exploiting the fear of another race for political or some other advantage. The use of the southern strategy by a political candidate is said by some to be a version of playing the race card, such as when former senator Jesse Helms, during his 1990 North Carolina Senate campaign ran an ad showing a black man taking a white man's job, intended as a criticism of the idea of racial quotas. The ad was interpreted by many people as trying to play to racist fears among white voters of black people taking their jobs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_card



Evilxxx - you're comparing a neighborhood watch to an announcement made by the governor and a 100 person strong alliance. I hardly see neighborhood watches being heralded in national news after getting a strong endorsement from a governor.

You're also missing my point. People are going ape shit over this. These Mexicans are a really big fucking deal, just like video games causing school shootings was a really big deal, just like rap music leading to gang wars was a really big fucking deal --- And politicians gobble this shit up in order to win the "us against them" votes. That's my problem with this. Illegal immigrants are like the new gay marriage issue - something that gets people riled up on the basic emotions but has little to no impact on the progress of the country as a whole.




Tai Mai - I'm sure your friends aren't racist, and have good intentions, but seriously, it's called due process and how exactly are the minute men going to decide who to hassle and who to not hassle? What criteria are they going to use in deciding who needs to provide proof and who can keep on walking down the street with no bother? "alien vs. citizen"? What? I didn't realize that people went around wearing their citizenship status on their sleeves. No, this is a "us vs. them" mentality that can only be implimented by well, yeah - If they're brown they're probably not down. And for every brown person who is illegal, you have WAAYYY more who are legal and oh well shit out of luck for them if they run into the "good intended posse."

THAT is what bothers me. This is a pretty strong slash against personal freedom, but am I suppose to not give a shit since I'm lilly white and don't have to worry about the hassle? Hommie don't play that.



If this was about raiding companies, and demanding VISAS - okay, yeah! I'm all for that, but that's what the INS already does. If this is about seeing people jumping a fence and helping take them down - right fucking on. But this is about citizens hassling citizens with the chance that they might get lucky. Even more so, it's about singling out people by the way the look and hassling them. Maybe that's not racism to you, or maybe that's nothing like racism, but whatever you call a black man being more likely to be pulled over and bothered by police than a white person - that's the same outcome as your getting from this.

[BubbaStrangelove]

Thought this was kind of worth bringing up....


Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.


Texas fought for independence due to not appreciating Mexican rule. What Mexican rules?

Policies that most irritated the Texians included the Mexican ban on slavery, the forcible disarmament of Texan settlers, and the expulsion of illegal immigrants from the United States of America.

Does anyone know if that's true? If so, it would seem things have come full circle.

Also -

It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles peop le to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price? For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here? There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010. We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and theives .


Talk about taking a sharp turn....

And yes - THAT is an example of playing the 'race card'. It's kind of funny that he brings up that securing borders has nothing to do with race (which I agree with) but in the same point he refers to - not thieves and agitators, but third world thieves and agitators, as if there's a difference. Also implying that thieves and agitators from developed countries aren't really a problem for him. THIS is exactly the kinds of statements that make race such an issue with this whole thing.

Good stuff....

[QUENTIN]

Illegal Immigrants Returning To Mexico For American Jobs

May 3, 2006 | Issue 42•18

MEXICO CITY—As dozens of major American corporations continue to move their manufacturing operations to Mexico, waves of job-seeking Mexican immigrants to the United States have begun making the deadly journey back across the border in search of better-paying Mexican-based American jobs.

"I came to this country seeking the job I sought when I first left this country," said Anuncio Reyes, 22, an undocumented worker who recrossed the U.S. border into Mexico last month, three years after leaving Mexico for the United States to work as an agricultural day laborer. "I spent everything I had to get back here. Yes, it was dangerous, and I miss my home. But as much as I love America, I have to go where the best American jobs are."


http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Illegal-Immigrants-C.article.jpg
A group of Mexican workers make the dangerous trek home across the Rio Grande for their lunch break.


Reyes now works as a spot-welder on the assembly line of a Maytag large-appliance plant and earns $22 a day, most of which he sends back to his family in the U.S., who in turn send a portion of that back to the original family they left in Mexico. Like many former Mexican-Americans forced by circumstance to become American-Mexicans, Reyes dreams of one day bringing his relatives to Mexico so that they, too, may secure American employment in Mexico.

Despite the considerable risk illegal immigrants face in returning across the border, many find the lure of large U.S. factory salaries hard to resist—at 15 percent of the pay of corresponding jobs in America, these positions pay three times what Mexican jobs do.

Still, the danger is very real. When 31-year-old illegal Arizona resident Ignacio Jimenez sought employment at an American plant in Mexico, he was shot at by Mexican border guards as he attempted to illegally enter the country of his citizenship, pursued by U.S. immigration officials who thought he might be entering the country illegally, and fired upon again by a second group of U.S. Border Patrol agents charged with keeping valuable table-busing and food-delivery personnel inside American borders.

"It was a nightmare," Jimenez said. "Many became disoriented and panicked, and some were mixed in with immigrants going the other way across the Rio Grande and ended up swimming to the wrong country."

He added: "My cousin almost drowned. They fished him out and sent him back to wash dishes at T.G.I. Friday's."

Many say the trip across the border as illegal Mexican-American emigrants offers them a chance to land the American jobs in Mexico they never have been able to get as illegal Mexican-American immigrants in the U.S.

"It has always been my goal to have a good American job," Johnson Controls technician Camilla Torres, 27, said. "Many Mexicans now see Mexico as the land of opportunity. Mexicans will not stop trying to get here, no matter how much the Mexicans wish we would not."

Indeed, the trend of illegal re-emigration is causing great resentment among the local Mexican population, and tension between Mexicans and illegally re-entered Mexicans—dubbed repatriados—continues to build.

"I hate these Mexicans, always coming back here to Mexico from America and taking American jobs from the Mexicans who stayed in Mexico," said 55-year-old former Goodyear factory manager Juan-Miguel Diaz, who lost his job to a better-trained repatriado last March. "Why don't they go back to where they went to?"

Still, Jimenez, Reyes, and hundreds of others say they have no choice.

"The American Dream is alive and well in Mexico," Reyes said. "If I work hard, save my money, and plan well, I will be able to send my children to a good school—and who knows? If they study hard, perhaps they will get jobs someday at the new plant General Motors is building in China."

[bigred760]

Gotta love theonion.com

:D

[BubbaStrangelove]

^That was a great piece of writing.^


With that being said, does anyone think the decriminalization of all drugs in Mexico is going to play in on the immigration issue? I can't see how it won't.

I am sure though that it's going to change spring break for a lot of people. :eek:

[bigred760]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
With that being said, does anyone think the decriminalization of all drugs in Mexico is going to play in on the immigration issue? I can't see how it won't.


Well, it wasn't "all drugs," but small amounts. And I heard that they've decided not to pursue that piece of legislation or whatever.

[BubbaStrangelove]

Originally posted by bigred760
Well, it wasn't "all drugs," but small amounts. And I heard that they've decided not to pursue that piece of legislation or whatever.

Yeah, but even small amounts of hard drugs is pretty drastically new in the world.

But now you're saying the might name pass the bill.

(Bubba calls this travel agent to tell them to 'hold off' for a bit)