Freddy, Jason, & Michael's origins... Who Gives A Fuck?

[EVILxxx]

From over a year ago untill very recently there have been hints and even declarations that the new sequels to the Halloween, Friday the 13th, and A Nightmare on Elm Street franchises would be based on the origins of the afformentioned film's villians. And I ask you all, who gives a fuck?
Michael Myers origins? He was a perfectly normal kid until one halloween he snapped and killed his sister.
Jason's origins? He was a mongoloid kid who drowned when he was a young boy.
And Freddy? The idea of a movie about his origins pisses me off the most. Don't we get enough flashbacks in the series to know what his deal is?
Point being these movies are primed for sequels not prequels. Even the occasional crappy installment can't keep these bad boys down.
So I say nay to the prequel idea. We already know all there is to know about these guys. I don't need to see their entire childhood or awkward teen years. Flashback clips are fine but don't base an entire film on it.

[Shockwave]

..u mean u DONT want to see how Leatherface was abused as a kid and became a sympathetic character???????????


OMGZ!!

-sarcasm off-;)

[slasherfan]

I don't care about their origins either, I just wanna see more meat getting cut up.

[Cronos]

i hate the idea of origin films, first of all they dont interest me at all and also they detract from the characters since its scarier not knowing why they are like they are

[Duke Nukem]

We don't need any origin films for either of them, because we already know their origins. Any prequels that "explained" what happened to them would be pointless.

[X-Nightcrawler]

Yeah I agree. I'd rather have another silly slashing sequel than a boring prequel I know the story of.

[Graver]

I'm going to be the rebel here lol

I DO want to see their origins. At least, Freddy's and maybe Michael's (especially if Donald Pleasence was still alive to play Dr. Loomis).

I think their origins are interesting, especially since slasher sequels are getting worse and worse. I would rather see a good prequel that has more of a crime drama twist, such as what they're talking about doing with Freddy's prequel, rather than another sequel with nothing knew but more gore and tired one liners.

It wouldn't bother me that they're showing why these guys kill and leave nothing to the imagination of their pasts, because I am quite interested in how they got started and why and all of that, more so than what was originally told.
I think if they were to leave the gore as not their number one priority, and got some decent actors, and a decent script, it would be a good horror movie. I don't know about you guys, but I'm a little tired of the gore after Saw and Hostel (and the many movies which will probably replicate the use of gore and accompany it with a thin or basic script)

I think origin flicks would be good if they were more like Emily Rose or even Strangeland to some degree.

So, yeah, I care :)

[Duke Nukem]

Originally posted by Graver
I'm going to be the rebel here lol

I DO want to see their origins. At least, Freddy's and maybe Michael's (especially if Donald Pleasence was still alive to play Dr. Loomis).

I think their origins are interesting, especially since slasher sequels are getting worse and worse. I would rather see a good prequel that has more of a crime drama twist, such as what they're talking about doing with Freddy's prequel, rather than another sequel with nothing knew but more gore and tired one liners.

It wouldn't bother me that they're showing why these guys kill and leave nothing to the imagination of their pasts, because I am quite interested in how they got started and why and all of that, more so than what was originally told.
I think if they were to leave the gore as not their number one priority, and got some decent actors, and a decent script, it would be a good horror movie. I don't know about you guys, but I'm a little tired of the gore after Saw and Hostel (and the many movies which will probably replicate the use of gore and accompany it with a thin or basic script)

I think origin flicks would be good if they were more like Emily Rose or even Strangeland to some degree.

So, yeah, I care :)

Unless you haven't seen all of their movies, you should already know their origins. Watch up on their movies.

[AWP82]

Originally posted by Graver
I'm going to be the rebel here lol

I DO want to see their origins. At least, Freddy's and maybe Michael's (especially if Donald Pleasence was still alive to play Dr. Loomis).

I think their origins are interesting, especially since slasher sequels are getting worse and worse. I would rather see a good prequel that has more of a crime drama twist, such as what they're talking about doing with Freddy's prequel, rather than another sequel with nothing knew but more gore and tired one liners.

It wouldn't bother me that they're showing why these guys kill and leave nothing to the imagination of their pasts, because I am quite interested in how they got started and why and all of that, more so than what was originally told.
I think if they were to leave the gore as not their number one priority, and got some decent actors, and a decent script, it would be a good horror movie. I don't know about you guys, but I'm a little tired of the gore after Saw and Hostel (and the many movies which will probably replicate the use of gore and accompany it with a thin or basic script)

I think origin flicks would be good if they were more like Emily Rose or even Strangeland to some degree.

So, yeah, I care :)

Thank god man, you beat me to it (minus the "tired of the gore after Saw and Hostel" part). It's so cliche to be against prequels and origin stories (kind of like blind sequel hate). Sure we get flashbacks and all, but I love the characters. Knowing more than I think I know about them sounds like a fun idea to me. I mean, hell...I'll even go out on a limb and say some of these iconic characters' backstories don't make as much sense as they could, especially Michael Myers' backstory, but that's just me. Besides, the entertainment value alone wouldn't hurt. All I need is an excuse to see my favorite villains on screen again, because I like them, even if the excuse is lame. So yeah, I care too.

Originally posted by Duke Nukem
Unless you haven't seen all of their movies, you should already know their origins. Watch up on their movies.

Yes, I already have seen all of their movies, and know the gist of all of their backstories. That doesn't change my level of interest in prequels that "spell it out" for me. Frankly, all I care about is being entertained, but again, that's just me. To each his own.

[Duke Nukem]

Originally posted by AWP82
...I'll even go out on a limb and say some of these iconic characters' backstories don't make as much sense as they could, especially Michael Myers' backstory, but that's just me.

Here is Michael Myers' backstory:

1957 - Michael Myers is born
1963 - Michael Myers is inflicted with a mysterious evil. The possessing evil makes him kill his older sister Judith. If you go by H1-2-4-5-6, it is specifically the Thorn curse associated with Druid mythology. If you go by H1-2-7-8, it is a mysterious evil associated with Samhain - associated with Druid mythology but more vague and mysterious. Either way, the evil makes him kill his family and anyone else who gets in his way. The evil possesses his soul/spirit, controls/guides his human functions, protects his body, and heals his wounds. He is locked up at the Smith Grove County Sanitarium for the next 15 years.
1978 - Michael escapes from Smith Grove, etc.

That pretty much sums up Michael Myers. Out of curiousity, what part of that history do you feel would make potential prequel material?

[The_Driller_Killer]

Definitely agreed. I'm so sick of all the prequel talk, and of prequels in general. No matter how much I love a series, if a prequel is slapped in the mix, it automatically becomes my least favorite of the bunch. I thought Halloween 6 was horrendously boring, slow, and gave way too much information I simply did not care about. The original Ginger Snaps was a brilliant film and even the sequel was pretty damn good, in my humble little opinion. But The Beginning should've never seen the light of day. I'm less than enthusiastic about the upcoming Chainsaw Massacre prequel as well, mainly because the concept sounds fucking ridiculous. Leatherface as a young boy with golden blond curls and the voice of an angel? Are you fucking kidding me???

[Shockwave]

Prequels take the fangs out of the beast in my opinion.

[thebloodfeaster]

Originally posted by Shockwave
Prequels take the fangs out of the beast in my opinion.

I think it depends on which beast it is. Michael Myers was basically neutered when given a backstory. He was no longer the faceless evil, the iconic boogeyman.

On the other hand, villains like Freddy Krueger I think benefit from knowing the backstory, although in his case I agree with others who have said that we already know enough of his backstory through existing movies.

Not in the slasher genre, but I think Hannibal Lector is a great example of someone who I would love to know about his earlier life.

But yeah, alot of times the beast gets de-fanged.

[AWP82]

Originally posted by Duke Nukem
Here is Michael Myers' backstory:

1957 - Michael Myers is born
1963 - Michael Myers is inflicted with a mysterious evil. The possessing evil makes him kill his older sister Judith. If you go by H1-2-4-5-6, it is specifically the Thorn curse associated with Druid mythology. If you go by H1-2-7-8, it is a mysterious evil associated with Samhain - associated with Druid mythology but more vague and mysterious. Either way, the evil makes him kill his family and anyone else who gets in his way. The evil possesses his soul/spirit, controls/guides his human functions, protects his body, and heals his wounds. He is locked up at the Smith Grove County Sanitarium for the next 15 years.
1978 - Michael escapes from Smith Grove, etc.

That pretty much sums up Michael Myers. Out of curiousity, what part of that history do you feel would make potential prequel material?

All of it.

PS. In all honesty, it's just my undying and burning curiosity to see what Michael was like as a normal kid, and hear him talk (if he has vocal chords), then see how his transition to the boogeykid/man played out. I want to see it with my own eyes, not just hear about it. I want to see something nasty and/or incredibly weird looking, because I find those things entertaining.

[Graver]

Originally posted by AWP82
Thank god man, you beat me to it.

I'm glad to see that someone agrees with me, and we're evidently not the only two who are interested in this since they're making a Freddy prequel, or so I've heard. :)

And it's 'Thank god woman' ;)

[AWP82]

Originally posted by Graver
I'm glad to see that someone agrees with me, and we're evidently not the only two who are interested in this since they're making a Freddy prequel, or so I've heard. :)

And it's 'Thank god woman' ;)

Oops! My bad. My brain's on default. Speaking of "woman", the one in your avatar is pretty cute. Who is she?

I'm glad we agree. Although, "they're" don't really count in my mind. I wish more of the movie-going public would agree with us, but I get where they're coming from. Originality never hurts. Neither does mystery.

[X-Nightcrawler]

Originally posted by AWP82
Oops! My bad. My brain's on default. Speaking of "woman", the one in your avatar is pretty cute. Who is she? OMG IT'S KATHERINE ISABELLE!

[Graver]

Originally posted by AWP82
Oops! My bad. My brain's on default. Speaking of "woman", the one in your avatar is pretty cute. Who is she?

Yep, it's Katherine Isabelle. That pic is from Ginger Snaps. She has also been in Freddy vs Jason.

[AWP82]

Originally posted by Graver
Yep, it's Katherine Isabelle. That pic is from Ginger Snaps. She has also been in Freddy vs Jason.

The smoker with the mean boyfriend who got "mashed" into him on a bed after sex, right?

Damn...if that's her, smokers get a bad rap. I'd totally cuddle with her, regardless of how her breath smelled. :)

[punkmother]

I liked how they kept it simple with old school films, and the origins simply eaze their way into the plot briefly. Good Exmples are Nightmare on Elm St., all it shows us his freddy making his claw in the beginning and the expalining to her daughter who and where he was.

Another good Example would have to be Friday the 13th. This origin really makes the movie the killers motive is to get vegenance on her dead son. Sending out the clear message that not all killers are conceived as males.

[KillerKlown]

No, I don't give a fuck. :D

[Priest of Steel]

Certain preqeuls would suck, like a halloween or F13 .. but I can't fucking wait for TCM to come out .. thats going to be badass. And, the beginning of f vsj, while Freddy was still human, it had my mouth watering for them to make a prequel.

[nekroman41]

"Originally posted by AWP82
PS. In all honesty, it's just my undying and burning curiosity to see what Michael was like as a normal kid, and hear him talk (if he has vocal chords), then see how his transition to the boogeykid/man played out. I want to see it with my own eyes, not just hear about it. I want to see something nasty and/or incredibly weird looking, because I find those things entertaining."

When was Michael a normal kid? He killed his sister when he was 6 years old. It wouldn't be too interesting to see anything in his life before that. I doubt he would say anything because loomis said he hadn't said a word in 15 years (since he was 6). I also dont think there is much of a transistion into boogeyman, just Michael sitting around for 15 years until he could break out and continue what he started. I think its more frightening if he actually sat around for 15 years waiting for that one Halloween night, then if he had many fun escapades at Smiths Grove.

Fuck their origins

[killuminati003]

A Halloween prequel would be pointless to me, as would a Jason prequel. A Nightmare prequel however, I would go see. The new TCM prequel ,I'll probably watch and I might enjoy it, i dont know. (The TCM Remake was one of the like, 3, along with Dawn of the Dead and The Hills Have Eyes, that I actualy liked/didn't hate).


Plus, we can forget about a Halloween prequel anyways, because what Rob Zombie is describing sounds very much like a remake to me. His fancy talk can't fool me...

[killuminati003]

and i meant recent remakes by the way, cause there have been some great remakes in the past...

such as the House on Haunted Hill remake, and the Thing remake.

[bucket]

Seeing them as a real kid will be as bad as vaders de masking in ROTJ ;)

[AWP82]

Originally posted by nekroman41
When was Michael a normal kid?

Before he was 6 years old, I presume. He hadn't killed anyone up to that point. Seeing him in non-killing mode would be intriguing to me.

He killed his sister when he was 6 years old. It wouldn't be too interesting to see anything in his life before that.

Not to you, but to me, it would be interesting to see a more human/innocent side of him. The contrast between that and his "evil" incarnation would be mentally stimulating for me. I've already explained why. If that's not your thing, fine. Different strokes for different folks.

I doubt he would say anything because loomis said he hadn't said a word in 15 years (since he was 6).

Right. Since he was 6. I'm talking about BEFORE that. 3-5 year olds can talk. I'd like to hear his vocal chords. Sue me.

I also dont think there is much of a transistion into boogeyman, just Michael sitting around for 15 years until he could break out and continue what he started. I think its more frightening if he actually sat around for 15 years waiting for that one Halloween night, then if he had many fun escapades at Smiths Grove.

Like I said, different strokes...

Fuck their origins

Says you. I don't care.

[Kevin Smith fan]

O.k., I am an avid Nightmare on Elm Street fan and would want nothing more than more Freddy Krueger films to be made, but a prequel would be just flat out pointless. Not only do they describe his origins in every single film, they also have flashbacks and entire story about his mother unveiled in parts 3-6. I think the only way to pick up with the Freddy serries would be to start something completely new. Either keep going with the Freddy v.s. Jason serries and introduce Micheal Myers, (or even feature a rematch) or somehow take off from where Part 7 left off, following Dylan (Heather Langenkamp's son from New Nightmare) as Freddy returns and tries to use him as his gateway to a whole new generation of children. Remakes, prequels...bad idea.

[nekroman41]

Originally posted by AWP82
Different strokes for different folks.

Couldn't have said it better myself

[CHANCE]

Origin seqeuls...mmm

I'm not against it, it's just that writers make up pretty silly stuf to explain the characters.

Only the Thorn curse of Halloween is an example of writers researching history and basing the origin of Micheal's evil on an actual ancient Celtic belief.

(if a village was over populated in olden times, one of the villagers was chosen to sacrifice his life, to be transformed by the Torn curse, to thin out the population.He would feel no pain,would grow larger and stronger than normal men and could not die.Certain people would be targeted by markings or spells, when these were killed the aflicted Thorn carrier's body would burn up, as the flesh cannot hold the power after the mission is done...there are different versions of the tale out there)

So in a context that is believable because it's human history.
That's why a lott of people(includding me)like Halloween 5+6, the back story was compeling enough to keep your attention.

Look at Dracula (Vlad Tepmes), he was a folk hero in Roemanie in the war against the Turks.
After years of war Vlad snapped and stared butchering his own people...this is real history.
So basing your characters on stuff that realy happened will increase your belief in a character...

There are so many (mostly European) legends out there concerning inhuman killers, beasts, demons, cursed places...etc

Sadly, most people do not know about these legends...
I think with the right people and research, one could;

A- Create a real history for these 3 characters based on real legends and superstitions

B- Bring these characters together, most curses and spells are roughly the same in all cultures.Some curses have counter curses...like Freddy is the oposite of Jason.

C- Ty-in the place of original death/curse with the person as part of their curse.
(Michael-Haddonfield,Jason-Crystal lake,Freddy-Springwood)
Has this happened before in all these places...?

As you can read I have a lott of ideas about this...because I'm working on my own Freddy v/s Jason comic (it sucked!)with my older brother.He's a big fan of Jason and a University History teacher in Amsterdam.

it's hard work finding things that make sense for these charcters,
that's why most origin movies suck...they "invent" the origins, instead of looking around and finding out that we as humans have a more extreme history, filled with unexplained shit, than we would like too admit...

[Duke Nukem]

CHANCE, I know where you're coming from. I write my own horror series with these horror icons and have had to figure out interesting ways to define them as characters.

Yes, The Thorn was a great example of bringing myth to horror icon.

Yet, the attempts to explain Freddy's and Jason's origins were ridiculous. They didn't build up on what we already knew, they just started from scrap and changed things over. I don't even count "Freddy's Dead/Jason Goes To Hell" as official Freddy/Jason films because of this.

F13 Parts 1-8 are the official Jason films, Part 9 and 10 are just different Jason movies set in different universes. Nightmares Part 1-5 are the official films, Part 6 only screwed everything up. And of course, Part 7 is an entirely different Freddy film set in a different universe. Then, there's FvJ which is just a spin-off of both franchises, not a sequel to either series.

In a way, we already know their origins. Each of their films tell a different part of their backstories. To make origin films to any of them would be redundant.

[CHANCE]

Mornin Duke...

I don't know...the info we got Jason's flick is more of an history of events than backstory;
Why can't Jason die.....is never explained
The same with Freddy;where does he get his powers from?

This they tried to explain in several sequels but it never realy made sense for me...

Here is how I set-up their universe for my comic;

-All killers inhabit the same world.
-Their curse determines on which side of the supernatural they stand, and how it affects the world.
-All religions exist in this world, old testament God, Greek God's, Moslim, Chinese religion, all of them...except people don't know this.The bible, other scriptures are a kind of coded manuals for different God's, with different effects and purpose.
-The places where these killers roam were bad to begin with.
I like the idea that the place, the person, what happend to them and what kind of regional God holds this place, determines what kind of killer is born...
-Survivors from all sequels make an apearence;what happened to them after they survived this hell?
-All killers serve a different purpose to their motivation.
-Magic(i hate that word!)is difficult!I hate it when people in movies learn black arts in 5 seconds and it doesn't backfire!
-This is the real world as far as the people who live in it are concerned.The supernatural is still not accepted and lies are made to cover the unexplained.
-All sequels(the logical ones, no JasonX, etc...)happend, maybe as legend, maybe as fact.

These are just some guidelines me and my bro use to make sure that we don't "just make shit up on the fly".

By tying these charachters to real religions(Halloween did thid with the Thorn curse)your back story is practily written, you just have to look it up...!
(with back story I mean "how they got beyond human")

I'm don't care for a movie about these characters when they were human...how they lived and what they did every day.
That would mean 2 movies about retarded/catatonic kids and one movie about a pedophile...

A movie detailing their curse, now thats some thing i would watch!

[iamda125]

Prequels are pointless- who cares about the origins of a fictional character. true horror fans and casual alike really dont care.

[CHANCE]

Originally posted by iamda125
Prequels are pointless- who cares about the origins of a fictional character. true horror fans and casual alike really dont care.

You speak for all "true horror/casual fans"?
Are you the president of the "true horror/casual fans club"?

Or perhaps you are the founder of the "true horror/casual fans club"?.....or the only member?

If you got nothing to say, keep your hands of the keyboard,
and give your little brain a rest....

[iamda125]

Originally posted by CHANCE
You speak for all "true horror/casual fans"?
Are you the president of the "true horror/casual fans club"?

Or perhaps you are the founder of the "true horror/casual fans club"?.....or the only member?

If you got nothing to say, keep your hands of the keyboard,
and give your little brain a rest....


You dont have anything positive to add ? I just think fictional character prequels are very needless and i know alot of people agree.

[zombievictim]

Originally posted by CHANCE
If you got nothing to say, keep your hands of the keyboard,
and give your little brain a rest....

He did have something to say, that prequels are pointless. Am I missing something or are you reading the same thing I'm reading.

[CHANCE]

Originally posted by iamda125
You dont have anything positive to add ? I just think fictional character prequels are very needless and i know alot of people agree.

nothing positive...?

I posted 2 pieces on how I believe you can create a cool back story for these horror icons and i'm working on my own Freddy vs Jason comic...

what are you doing...?nothing except bitching that prequels are pointles.

Why are they pointles?you don't even make an argument...

You entitled to your opinion, but just blurting out shit without a "why" is childish.

I know a lott of people who don't agree with you at all...
Does that give me the right to speak for "the true horror fan"?

I post things cuz i like to get some feedback on my ideas, if you don't like my ideas/prequels i'd like to hear it...but a little bit more than"it sucks!"would help

[zombievictim]

I'm going to have to go with the majority and say that prequels are pointless. Hell, they're BEYOND pointless. Especially when the backstories have already been explained in the movies. Those who lack imagination probably love the idea of a prequel though.

[doaflip]

I think the biggest problem with prequels is retconning. That is, changing things to fit a certain story. A Friday The 13th prequel would no doubt throw in a ton of ludicrous references to events of the sequels that from a narrative point of view make no sense.

On the other hand, you could say that the obsession with narrative continuity applies only to those immersed in the mythos of a series, i.e. those that try and explain every continuity flaw in the entire Friday The 13th series, ignoring the fact that they're just cheap horror movies made to rake in the cash.

I wouldn't like to see a prequel. Freddy's origins were well explored in NOES2, 3 and retconned to death in 6. Jason grew up in the woods - if you're going to do a prequel with him in the woods killing people, why not just make it another sequel? I'd watch a new original idea over a prequel anyday.

[iamda125]

Originally posted by zombievictim
I'm going to have to go with the majority and say that prequels are pointless. Hell, they're BEYOND pointless. Especially when the backstories have already been explained in the movies. Those who lack imagination probably love the idea of a prequel though.

i fuckin agree, u took the words right out of my mouth

[CHANCE]

let me be more specific...

i have nothing against prequels, simply because we haven' seen a prequel of ANY movie yet......so how do you know it will suck
(Except AvP...if you can call that a prequel...)

My ideas for a back story is purly for my comic, as i discussed with Duke Nukem...not for the Halloween remake or the Chainsaw prequel or any other kind of movie...

Also the back stories of the big three (Jason, Micheal, Freddy) have changed per sequel...with the exception of Jason.

Read my 2 other posts and you'l understand...

As for having no imagination, this is the kind of remark I would excecpt from someone who can't make an argument...

learn to read, little kids...

[CHANCE]

and learn how to spell...

[iamda125]

Alright Chance, since you are a horror scholar, i will show some respect and give my thorough opinion. Prequels to me are a total waste of production. We already know Jason is a mongoliod retard with regenerative genes. He was thought to haved drowned as a kid but survived due to his to gift and then became superzombie. Why make a movie about his past when it has been played out already. That goes for Freddy and Mike too. You can do so much more with the future, why conjure up some fake past? Freddy lives in his victims dream now. When he was a pedophile 20 years he was charred to death by the parents on Elm street. What don't we know? And, Mike Meyers at age 7 just doesn't sound interresting. Just let the curse live on. He has plenty of family left to kill. The makers of any of films should just let the history of these fictional characters progress. WHO"S WITH ME ?

[nekroman41]

Originally posted by CHANCE
I posted 2 pieces on how I believe you can create a cool back story for these horror icons and i'm working on my own Freddy vs Jason comic...


Nobody needs to be "creating" cool back stories for these characters. Their stories already exist.

Im with ya iamda125.

Plus, there is a reason we haven't seen a "real" prequel to any film yet. It's a lame idea and takes just about as much imagination as a remake.

[zombievictim]

Originally posted by nekroman41
Nobody needs to be "creating" cool back stories for these characters. Their stories already exist.

Im with ya iamda125.

Plus, there is a reason we haven't seen a "real" prequel to any film yet. It's a lame idea and takes just about as much imagination as a remake.

Exactly! That's why I think people who lack imagination need one of these prequels. They can't think of what happened completely themselves, so they need someone else to tell them how the story goes. I hope that's enough of an argument for ya:rolleyes:

[CHANCE]

If you feel that any kind of prequel is unnecessary, you have the right to your opnion, as I have the right to have mine...

It's the way you express your opinion...because i don't agree with you, i have no imagination?

I was talking mainly about my ideas for my COMIC, not a new MOVIE...

but if you feel this way about prequels, what do you think of the Halloween "redux/remake"?

From what I read on the Halloween site that did an interview with him, he's going to show the "back story" of Michael and change the whole myth...

Isn't a redux (by that I mean a reivention) realy the same as a preqeul? To retell a back story differently?

So far people seem optimistic...how about you?

[nekroman41]

Originally posted by CHANCE
If you feel that any kind of prequel is unnecessary, you have the right to your opnion, as I have the right to have mine...

It's the way you express your opinion...because i don't agree with you, i have no imagination?

Chance, in no way am I trying to imply that YOU have no imagination. I believe that the idea of a prequel requires little imagination thats all. They are like a cover song in music. No matter what cool new twist one puts into it, it is still somebody else's shit.

As for the Halloween remake or w/e the hell it is, we can only pray.

[iamda125]

rob zombie first two flicks were good but on this one I don't know. he should just make up a new story. the origin story sounds horrible.

[CHANCE]

I don't know...

The recent remakes/prequels/seqeuls that have been made are for the crowd weened on Michael Bay, Bret Ratner etc....(except the new Hills)

Leatherface and family are no longer canibals, the undead run as fast as trends come and go, Jason is afraid of water(?), ghost seek love instead of vengeance(the Fog anyone...?)

I could go on...The threat of horror is gone...

For me all the originals are stand alone movies(can't be compared to each other...), with their own style and story.
Sure Friday the 13th is a Halloween rip-of, but it's a different movie altogether...same with Chainsaw and Freddy.
They created their own style, while being somewhat the same.(undead/hard to kill killers)

All these new redux/remakes have the same glosssy, high price ,stylish look about them, as if made by one company...(Hollywood)

If Halloween is going to be a big budget remake, I fear that compromise will be at the order of the day...

[CHANCE]

Originally posted by nekroman41
] They are like a cover song in music. No matter what cool new twist one puts into it, it is still somebody else's shit.

As for the Halloween remake or w/e the hell it is, we can only pray.

When you put it like that I agree with you, why retread the same path? especialy in movies...

But there are so many mediums for Horror; look at all the Friday the 13th novels!, that I believe that there is room for expanding the horror icon universe.

But yes, in the modern movie world, "prequel" means more bad than good...news

What do you think of the Jason redux/remake/coversong being prepared by Platinum Dunes, the company owned by Bay, who made the canibal less Chainsaw?They'r also prepping the new Hitcher...

[Duke Nukem]

Originally posted by CHANCE
I don't know...Jason is afraid of water(?),

In FvJ, Jason's fear was only subconscience. It was only in his head in, in his dreams. It didn't change anything around, it just added a dimension to Jason.

[CHANCE]

Originally posted by Duke Nukem
In FvJ, Jason's fear was only subconscience. It was only in his head in, in his dreams. It didn't change anything around, it just added a dimension to Jason.

I gues we disagree on this Duke...

For me it did not ad a thing but for Freddy being able to attack Jason...if they did not ad the water phobia Freddy could not touch Jason, he never has shown this phobia before, he even kills in the water!...

In J vs F, the fight in the boiler room was in Jason's dream (Jason saw his mom...Do dead people dream...?)then the pipes burts, Jason starts shaking, turns into a kid as Freddy proceeds to probe his mind and goes into Jason mind, where they already were cuz the fight was in the Jason's dream world...We see Jason dream world(dream within a dream?)again, this time about Crystal lake...it ad's only bad writting...

Jason as we know him was "born" in Crystal Lake, for me, it is his source of power...but that's my take on it.

I'm not big on Freddy, that's why I didn't like the ideas in the flick...but that's me...

[Duke Nukem]

Originally posted by CHANCE
I gues we disagree on this Duke...

For me it did not ad a thing but for Freddy being able to attack Jason...if they did not ad the water phobia Freddy could not touch Jason, he never has shown this phobia before, he even kills in the water!...

In J vs F, the fight in the boiler room was in Jason's dream (Jason saw his mom...Do dead people dream...?)then the pipes burts, Jason starts shaking, turns into a kid as Freddy proceeds to probe his mind and goes into Jason mind, where they already were cuz the fight was in the Jason's dream world...We see Jason dream world(dream within a dream?)again, this time about Crystal lake...it ad's only bad writting...

Jason as we know him was "born" in Crystal Lake, for me, it is his source of power...but that's my take on it.

I'm not big on Freddy, that's why I didn't like the ideas in the flick...but that's me...

Jason does have *some* brain cells left in his head, otherwise he wouldn't have the function move around everytime he was brought back. So yeah, I do think a "dead person" can dream.

Jason's fear was only subconsience, deep in his inner thoughts (where *some* of his brain cells still function). He was never afraid of water in reality, because his vengeance for blood overcame it. In his dreamworld, however, the fear is still present. And not until FvJ did we ever see the inner-workings of Jason's own psych, so who says he couldn't have had a subconscience fear of water?

I do think you're thinking too hard about the dream-within-a-dream stuff and Jason being "born" in Crystal Lake. In reality, it is his home. But in his head, he fears it because he drowned in its watery surface as a child.

[zombievictim]

I think that everybody will learn that if you want to argue Jason, Freddy, or Michael with Duke, he will prove you wrong and keep cool doing it...:D

[CHANCE]

Originally posted by Duke Nukem
Jason does have *some* brain cells left in his head, otherwise he wouldn't have the function move around everytime he was brought back. So yeah, I do think a "dead person" can dream.

Jason's fear was only subconsience, deep in his inner thoughts (where *some* of his brain cells still function). He was never afraid of water in reality, because his vengeance for blood overcame it. In his dreamworld, however, the fear is still present. And not until FvJ did we ever see the inner-workings of Jason's own psych, so who says he couldn't have had a subconscience fear of water?

I do think you're thinking too hard about the dream-within-a-dream stuff and Jason being "born" in Crystal Lake. In reality, it is his home. But in his head, he fears it because he drowned in its watery surface as a child.

Sorry Duke.....still don't agree(on some..)

Jason was rotting in the ground during part 5 till 6, what was left of his brain after part 4 is long gone, he has no brain left to function...I agree that we never knew his inner workings, but Jason is the undead now and no longer just a "hard to kill"guy, you are assuming that he is still human which he has not been for a long time...he is just an empty hate-vessel, there's nothihng human about him. The dead have no fear...

The dream within a dream is bad script writing not me being hard on the movie...Watch the flick with comentary and the making, Ronny Yu states several times that he knew nothing of the series and did not watch them, he did not want to make the same movie...The script writers wrote the story to fit the concept not the series, nowhere in the series has Jason shown fear...One of the 2 killers had to be symphatetic, and they choose Jason and made him more"hg
human"

I can see where your comming from with the water phobia, but Jason is not human, they should have done this before part 4, emotional zombies is Romero's turf...funny cuz my comic begins after Friday1, showing Jason's emotional hell...

[Duke Nukem]

I guess this discussion will always remained open-ended. You think one way and I think otherwise. I see where their provided fear for Jason comes from and you don't.

I was never thinking Jason was still human after Part 4, of course he isn't. He kind of became a zombie. My belief is that time after time, when Jason was killed and brought back to life, his brain cells (or *some*) were reanimated whenever he was brought back to life. Something like that.

Personally, I think he has to have *some* brain cells still turned "on" and "off" from killing time to nap time under the lake. I know that is not the normal functions of the ordinary zombie, but Jason is special. He's more than a zombie. He's a being that watches over Crystal Lake and kills any counsilors, vacationers, and especially, naughty teenagers that trespass on HIS turf. He always kind of "acts" with those checklists in mind. I suppose you won't agree with this, however, since you see Jason as an empty"hate-vehicle."

I am aware that Ronny Yu was not familiar with the F13/Nightmare franchises when he was first asked to direct FvJ. I am also aware that over a period of two weeks, he watched each and every F13/Nightmare film before committing to the movie. I do think he and the crew put more thought into the project than you seem to feel.

The dream-within-a-dream you were talking about...are you talking about when Freddy first goes into Jason's dream/fights him a little bit/discovers Jason shivering upon the sight of water? And when he digs deeper into his subconscience showing Jason dragging a body out of the lake/walking up to an old shack/stuffing the body into the closet with the rest of bodies? And then Lori's entry into the dream as we see the loose reanctment of Crystal Lake 1957 with little Jason?

Yeah, that is dream-within-a-dream stuff, but we've always seen them from time to time in the Nightmare films. Anything can happen in dreams. Okay, the Nightmare sequels have had some dream-within-a-dreams that didn't make sense, but I don't see how this one didn't. Freddy can jump around to one thing to the next in his dreamworld. I didn't have a problem with this segement.

Even though Jason's subconscience was never revealed until this movie came along, I feel it makes a lot sense and adds to the character of Jason. First, he drowned in Crystal Lake while naughty teenagers weren't paying attention. Next, his mother would take revenge on any counsilors that dared set up camp around the location to avenge Jason. Then, somebody finally got his mother. And upon his mother's fate, Jason returned to avenge her.

Jason's been taken by surprise and killed from time to time, but other Crystal Lake folks have always unintentionally brought him back also. Everytime this happens, I take it that he's brought back with *some* brain cells to back up his same intentions as before - kill any counsilors, vacationers and especially naughty teenagers who trespass on HIS turf. That's how I feel.

[CHANCE]

You are right, this discusion can go on forever...

We both have clear view of Jason, how we'd like to see him etc...
I love all Jason flicks, but one thing that always bummed me out was that from 2 till 4, Jason is such a bummbling idiot.

Part 7 is my perfect Jason, as played by Kane hodder.
The menace and hate he projects into the character is second to none...(that's what i meant with empty hate vessel, Jason doesn't quetion his motives or inner workings...)

To end this discusion... we both love the character so much that we've created our own opinions about him, pro's and con's.
We both know a lott about other horror icons and are both working on several projects...I'll post some Jason art soon.

let's leave some space for other people to place their views...

have a good one Duke...

[Bud Bundy]

The Freddy one might at least have enough to make a story out of, since he was abusing / killing children or whatever and then the parents banded together and burned him alive. You could make a movie out of that. But after Freddy's New Nightmare, they should probably just quite making those movies all together.

The other two have been explained in more than enough detail though. Jason was picked on and then drowned and saw his mother beheaded, Micheal just snapped.

I don't think the premise of the movie matters nearly as much as the actual story, the writing, the acting, the amount of boobs in it. I mean, you can take a totally horseshit premise and, with enough talent, make a really good movie out of it, or you can take an excellent premise and make garbage out of it.