Terror in Canada

[Lynn7]

17 Terror Suspects Arrested in Toronto
Jun 03 11:09 AM US/Eastern
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By BETH DUFF-BROWN
Associated Press Writer


TORONTO


Seventeen Canadian residents were in custody Saturday on terrorism- related charges, including plots to use explosives in attacks on Canadian soil, authorities said.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police said they arrested 12 male adults and five youth and foiled plans for terrorist attacks against targets in southern Ontario.



Officials showed evidence of bomb making materials, a computer hard drive, camouflage uniforms and what appears to be a door with bullet holes in it at a news conference Saturday morning.

"This group took steps to acquire three tons of ammonium nitrate and other components necessary to create explosive devices," said assistant Royal Canadian Mounted Police commissioner Mike McDonell said.

McDonell said that is three times the amount used to blow up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

The arrests were made Friday, with some 400 officers involved.

McDonell said the suspects were either citizens or residents of Canada and had trained together.

"The men arrested yesterday are Canadian residents from a variety of backgrounds. For various reasons they appeared to have become adherents of a violent ideology inspired by al-Qaida," said Luc Portelance, the assistant director of operations with CSIS _ Canada's spy agency.

Heavily armed police officers ringed the Durham Regional Police Station in the city of Pickering, just east of Toronto, as the suspects were brought in late Friday night in unmarked cars which were drove into an underground garage.

The Toronto Star reported Saturday that Canadian youths in their teens and 20s, upset at the treatment of Muslims worldwide, were among those arrested.

The newspaper said they had trained at a camp north of Toronto and had plotted to attack CSIS's downtown office near the CN Tower, among other targets.

Melisa Leclerc, a spokeswoman for the federal Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day, had no comment on the arrests.

In March 2004, Ottawa software developer Mohammad Momin Khawaja became the first Canadian charged under the country's Anti-Terrorism Act for alleged activities in Ottawa and London. Khawaja was also named, but not charged, in British for playing a role in a foiled bomb plot. He is being held in an Ottawa detention center, awaiting trial.

The Canadian anti-terrorism law was passed swiftly following the Sept. 11 assaults, particularly after Osama bin-Laden's named Canada one of five so-called Christian nations that should be targeted for acts of terror. The others, reaffirmed in 2004 by his al-Qaida network, were the United States, Britain, Spain and Australian, all of which have been victims of terrorist attacks.

The anti-terrorism law permits the government to brand individuals and organizations as terrorists and gives police the power to make preventive arrests of people suspected of planning a terrorist attack.

Though many view Canada as an unassuming neutral nation that has skirted terrorist attacks, it has suffered its share of aggression, including the 1985 Air India bombing, in which 329 people were killed, most of them Canadian citizens.

Intelligence officials believe at least 50 terror groups now have some presence in the North American nation and have long complained that the country's immigration laws and border security are too weak to weed out potential terrorists.


__________________________________________________

And that kind of says it all:

"...particularly after Osama bin-Laden's named Canada one of five so-called Christian nations that should be targeted for acts of terror. The others, reaffirmed in 2004 by his al-Qaida network, were the United States, Britain, Spain and Australian, all of which have been victims of terrorist attacks."


It doesn't matter what any of the nations' policies are, it all comes down to the fact that it is a religious war against Christians and nothing we do to pacify these people is ever going to alter that fact unless the countries change to become Muslim. It is a spiritual battle.

[Vong]

Heard about this this morning.

It doesn't really surprise me that something like this is happening here in Canada, no less Ontario. There are apparently over 50 cells in Canada working to attack targets here and in the US.

Though Canada generally isn't looked so negatively in the terrorists eyes. We participated, and still are, in Afghanistan, but up until recently there hasn't been that much of a threat to Canada.

It doesn't matter what any of the nations' policies are, it all comes down to the fact that it is a religious war against Christians and nothing we do to pacify these people is ever going to alter that fact unless the countries change to become Muslim. It is a spiritual battle.

Bearing in mind, that these terrorists have no problem with attacking other Muslisms. Seen in both Afghanistan and in Iraq, where citizens are targets in most of the attacks. Religioj isn't the only cause to this conflict. Politics, history and cultural differences play huge roles in it.

[outsyder]

I'm surprised we have't been attacked yet, given that arguably more secure countries have already been hit.

[echo_bravo]

Though Canada generally isn't looked so negatively in the terrorists eyes.

Bwhahaha keep telling yourself that.

[<3mekthx]

Apparently the FBI arrested some people in Georgia today somehow related to this.

I agree that Canada isn't looked at as negatively as the U.S and Britian in the muslim world.

3 tons of the stuff. Bleh.

[electriclite]

Originally posted by Vong
Bearing in mind, that these terrorists have no problem with attacking other Muslisms. Seen in both Afghanistan and in Iraq, where citizens are targets in most of the attacks.

Don't forget Jordan as well, and they didn't take too kindly to that.



Originally posted by Vong
Religioj isn't the only cause to this conflict. Politics, history and cultural differences play huge roles in it.

Don't kid yourself too much. Politics, history and cultural differences ARE all what its really about. Religion is merely what they're dressing it all up in.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by electriclite
Don't forget Jordan as well, and they didn't take too kindly to that.

I'll also state that Lynn is wrong about this being a holy war against Christians, and that in North America non-christians (like myself) make up an average of 25% in each country, and that in Autralia and the UK it's even lower.

[Vong]

Here's what I don't understand about this.

They are all Canadian born, raised their entire lives here, never been to Afghanistan or any other Islamic country....yet they are influenced by a terrorist organization thousands of kilometres away, by a leader they have never met, to destroy landmarks in their home country their family said they are proud to live in.....

Apparently they have also been "trained" somewhere north of Toronto, which leads me to believe there might be a camp of these losers somewhere in Orillia or Barrie......I guess if they needed a place to train, it would be in cottage-country.

[bigred760]

Originally posted by Vong
Here's what I don't understand about this.

They are all Canadian born, raised their entire lives here, never been to Afghanistan or any other Islamic country....yet they are influenced by a terrorist organization thousands of kilometres away, by a leader they have never met, to destroy landmarks in their home country their family said they are proud to live in.....

Apparently they have also been "trained" somewhere north of Toronto, which leads me to believe there might be a camp of these losers somewhere in Orillia or Barrie......I guess if they needed a place to train, it would be in cottage-country.

You might have the internet to thank for their "hostility." You can get a lot of information on terrorists, ideas, methods, etc. on the web and maybe one or two of these guys saw something that peaked their interest and went with it.

Who knows?

[MacReady]

What stuns me is the fact that they want to harm Canada. I mean, we're the country that not only refused to go to Iraq despite pressure from the south, but actually denouced the war as well. I kinda felt that we've been very non-agressive to the muslim world so this does kinda baffle me.

Nonetheless, I'm pleased we managed to beat them to the punch and avoid a similar fate like Madrid and London.

[Lynn7]

People need to understand that there is no pacifying these people. All the countires who are supporting terrorists through being "non-aggressive" to them are being naive. They will kill you in a second without a moment's regret.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Lynn7
People need to understand that there is no pacifying these people. All the countires who are supporting terrorists through being "non-aggressive" to them are being naive. They will kill you in a second without a moment's regret.

Too bad your country has wasted a fortune going after a regional dictator that was totally irrelevent to the war on terror rather than actually continuing to look for Bin Laden and re-electing the guy who decided he wasn't a big issue.

Also, I wish war-on-terror hawks would admit that they have no clue where the fuck Al-Qaeda is, and that there 'kill all terrorist' attitude is meaningless as we can't even engage them in regular combat.

EDIT: Fuck, I probably ruined a decent thread by going off and saying that. :(

[outsyder]

Originally posted by MacReady
What stuns me is the fact that they want to harm Canada.


We've been on Osama's list for quite some time now. I think people need to realize that the primary reason that there are people who would do such things is because of their cultural influences from their families and friends. In some Middle Eastern countries, there are textbooks which tell young students that they should grow up hating Israel and Israelis, for example. It's unfortunate that some Muslim groups grow up like that, only to pass on their predisposition to their friends and family. Hopefully it will improve with time, because it's difficult to change deep-seated hatred like we are seeing.


As far as I'm concerned, I'm ecstatic that we stopped this group of people, but it's only a matter of time before we ARE hit.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by outsyder
We've been on Osama's list for quite some time now. I think people need to realize that the primary reason that there are people who would do such things is because of their cultural influences from their families and friends. In some Middle Eastern countries, there are textbooks which tell young students that they should grow up hating Israel and Israelis, for example. It's unfortunate that some Muslim groups grow up like that, only to pass on their predisposition to their friends and family. Hopefully it will improve with time, because it's difficult to change deep-seated hatred like we are seeing.


As far as I'm concerned, I'm ecstatic that we stopped this group of people, but it's only a matter of time before we ARE hit.

I know, it's just that I didn't think we had a very negative (read: serious) pull in the international scheme of things. I do know Al-Qaeda is virulently anti-western however, but, ya know.

Anyhow I know there's a danger now, but I'm not really scared. I'm also gonna re-state that I'm very happy as well that this attack was averted even if it might be temporary.

[Scorpio24]

To save me making a new thread I may as well post this in this thread as it's similar news.



Police in the UK stormed a house where two brothers live shooting one of them. The police believe they were planning an attack with a chemical bomb in the UK.

The media have been whipping up a frenzy over here since. Claiming that there is a chemical bomb in the hands of someone and that police are in a desperate reac to find it/them. To make things a little worse the police are refusing to deny this is the case.



Link. (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/06/03/terrorism.raid.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest)

[echo_bravo]

What stuns me is the fact that they want to harm Canada.

That "stuns" you? :confused:

Like Lynn was stating, they dont give a flying fuck about anything.

[outsyder]

Originally posted by echo_bravo
That "stuns" you? :confused:

Like Lynn was stating, they dont give a flying fuck about anything.


There are people that have been raised only knowing hatred towards all things Western and wouldn't bat an eye at the though of killing you, even if you've never met before. That's the sad truth. Nobody is exempt from it, which is why it's important to separate these people from the rest of the Muslim community. It's a hard task and the only way it can be done is with the help of moderate Muslims who also wish to see an end to global Islamic extremism, given the 'closed doors' nature of Islam in Western nations.

[Zebra 3]

Originally posted by Vong
They are all Canadian born They're all Canadian citizens, not necessarily all born in Canada.

[Criminal Rock]

Shockingly for Canadians, almost all the suspects, who range in age from 17 to 43 years, were either born in Canada or had arrived here at an early age and possess Canadian citizenship.

^^Taken from about a thousand different news articles^^

[Vong]

Originally posted by Zebra 3
They're all Canadian citizens, not necessarily all born in Canada.

Nah dude, all born and raised in Canada.

[TheAxeGrinder]

Cue the fallout:

Tories rapped over response to U.S. border critics

The Conservative government came under attack on Friday in the House of Commons for not vigorously responding to criticism by U.S. politicians of Canada's border security and immigration polices.

Interim Liberal Leader Bill Graham lambasted the government during question period for not providing an effective defence of Muslim Canadians "unjustly and unfairly and viciously attacked by American lawmakers."

Earlier, a U.S. congressman said the arrest of 17 people in connection with an alleged bomb plot in Ontario proves Canada must get tough on border security.

"The alleged planned targets today may be in Canada but the way the law is now and the ease of travel between the two countries will allow for the next series of targets to potentially be in the United States," Indiana Republican John Hostettler told CBC News.

During a hearing on Capitol Hill Thursday, Hostettler said Canada is in denial about the threat of terrorism within its own borders.

Remarks called regrettable

Parliamentary secretary Jason Kenney agreed with Graham that the remarks were regrettable, but said they were due to "one misinformed individual."

"The administration in the U.S. and the majority of media there have congratulated the Canadian government on our response," Kenney said.

"The ambassador in Washington [Michael Wilson] is making every effort to communicate that security is important and continue to emphasize the immigration system is working for Canada," he added.

After the session, Kenney told CBC News the criticism of the immigration system was "ridiculous" considering that most of the suspects arrested in last week's plot were born in Canada or came to the country as children.

He added that two of the suspects, who are currently serving a prison sentence in Kingston for attempting to smuggle weapons and ammunition from the U.S., had been arrested by Canadian border agents.

Canadian officials are contacting political staff in Washington Friday to make their case.

'Abundance of terrorists'

Hostettler said the House of Representatives shouldn't agree to delay strict new border identification measures that include a plan to require passports for crossborder travel by January 2008.

The congressman said Canada "hosts an abundance of terrorists and as many as 50 terrorist organizations."

In an interview with CBC News, Hostettler said the "historic nature of the refugee and immigration policy" in Canada has long been a concern.

"There is a porous border between the United States and Canada," Hostettler said, adding it's "of tremendous concern to myself and a lot of other legislators here."

Hostettler said he applauded the beginning of "the end of denial on the part of Canadian officials on the situation and the potential haven for terrorist activity and terrorist planning in Canada."

He said the U.S. doesn't want to close the border because of the "potential terrorist threat that comes from Canada" but warned that if another 9/11 happens in the U.S., Americans will demand the border be shut down.

Janice Kephart, former counsel to the 9/11 Commission, struck a more conciliatory tone when she spoke to CBC News on Friday.

"Both countries have the same problem," she said. "We both need to work together on the border issue."

Kenney told CBC News he hoped Hostettler would officially retract many of the comments he made during Thursday's hearing.

First off, Bill Graham can kiss my ass for being another Lieberal hypocrite. Your crappy work as Minister of National Defence probably led to this happening.

Second, who the hell does Hostettler think he is? Pull your head out of your ass and worry about immediate problems that concern Indiana, and not about a country that probably saved a terrorist attack from happening.

[Vong]

Found this interesting...
Could the 17 terrorists be innocent? (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1149371435812)

[someguy]

My god, now the US wants to turn it into a border issue. The only reasonable one in that article was the Canadian guy who said that it was ridiculous because they were all Canadian born or came into Canada as kids. It's just..GIOHEASHGOIH'

[The Postmaster General]

Yeah, American politicians are spinning this to make a point about our own border policies. You know - look at those unprotected Canadians - that shows how tough we need our borders to be -- the fact that they detained 17 terrorist suspects proves it!

Not putting into account that no attack took place, the people didn't cross any borders, and more-so --- that they were detained before spending months at flight training schools, passing through airports with box cutters, and so-on.

Meanwhile - my mother-in-law had her social security card and license stolen, went into the department of motor vehicles, then applied for and received a new license, on-the-spot, without showing any form of identification.

But it is all so clear to people - taking our socks off before getting on an airplane, racial profiling, NSA phone tapping, arresting Tommy Chong, bombing countries --- Yes, all of these things are preventing terrorists attacks. The proof is simple - have we had another event like 9/11 in the US? No! So, haha - we are winning!

[MacReady]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
But it is all so clear to people - taking our socks off before getting on an airplane, racial profiling, NSA phone tapping, arresting Tommy Chong, bombing countries --- Yes, all of these things are preventing terrorists attacks. The proof is simple - have we had another event like 9/11 in the US? No! So, haha - we are winning!

I have a rock that keeps away tigers. Wanna buy?

[darchangel]

Originally posted by MacReady
I have a rock that keeps away tigers. Wanna buy?



Ooh! How much????



~darchangel~

[echo_bravo]

My god, now the US wants to turn it into a border issue.

Yeah silly Americans. Dont they know that the borders are PERFECTLY secure. What fools. Nothing could go wrong.:rolleyes:

[echo_bravo]

have we had another event like 9/11 in the US? No!

Well um we havent dude.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by echo_bravo
Well um we havent dude.


Of course, because we no longer let people with known terrorist ties train at flight schools, then get onto airplanes with potential weapons. People on airplanes no longer being willing to allow a few people hold up 200 with razor blades probably plays into the equation too.

I've yet to see someone commit a terrorist attack using a bong, but apparently our government feels it's possible.

[Zebra 3]

Originally posted by Vong
Nah dude, all born and raised in Canada. Source: CBC.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/toronto-bomb-plot/)
All of the suspects were either born in Canada or were long-time residents. Luc Portelance, the assistant director of operations for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) called it a case of "home-grown terrorism."

[The Postmaster General]

Zebra - I know you're right, but your last post confused me. So, I'll just say it -

They weren't all born in Canada.