They can't make it on $100,000+, but we can live with $5.15

[free]

Thank you Congress. Way to piss all over the little guy. Better get back to making sure them queers can't wed!!

:mad:

[shoe1985]

This is a huge disgrace. I hope we can get these people out of office in November. You know what though, people will still vote for them because of them being a Republican or a Democrat. I hate that, vote on the issues, or don't vote at all.

One issue the Government said with raising the minimum wage is prices will go up, but prices are rising. How are americans supposed to survive when you are holding them down.

I guess that raise they got is a way to say, "We can get it, but not you."

Yes people the House and Senate both gave themselves raises this past year. Gotta make sure they get that in quietly, but thanks to Mr. Dobbs, we know the truth.

[Lynn7]

Most of them are millionaires in the Senate so it is pretty disgusting. I think the people in the House live more humble lives so maybe they need the extra for housing and transportation etc.

[The Postmaster General]

On the bright side, $5.15 is enough for gas money assuming you live within 15 miles of your work.

[electriclite]

The whole system is fucked up. Even if they raise minimum wage all a business has to do is cut the working hours of their employees so that they can continue making the same crappy paycheck they made before the minimum wage hike came into effect.

And still rent, which is ALWAYS the biggest chuck taken out of one's paycheck, continues to shoot up to 2-8% a year with ease. And society expects people to be able to afford living quarters near the hot economies that are producing jobs, who just happen to have the highest rent. A LOT of people work 2 jobs and still have trouble making ends meet, some even coming close to not having a place to live.

Its not just the minimum wage that needs fixing, someone has got to handle both ends of the problem: the wage and the basic price of living that wage goes to.

[outsyder]

There is something fundamentally wrong when people are allowed to dictate their own wages.

[bigred760]

Originally posted by outsyder
There is something fundamentally wrong when people are allowed to dictate their own wages.

Amen to that. They give themselves raises, but won't raise minimum wage. Just say it. It's f*cked up as hell. I need to get one of those bumper stickers that read "Don't blame me, I voted Democrat."

[shoe1985]

I voted Democrat too. I was thinking about this again and with inflation about to increase again, how do companies expect anyone to buy anything? I guess they better outsource more jobs because it is cheaper labor. I was talking to my department manager about this, and we agree things need to be done. Wages went down last year, they should be going up. Job increases are going down.

I was reading a few different places and the way the United States is going, we are going to run out of jobs because of the increases in population. Places like Europe and Japan are having declines in their population, and their Presidents are considering offering woman money to have kids because there will be all these jobs and no workers.

I believe we need to control the amount of kids people have. I have a neighbor on disability who has 10, maybe more, kids. He is thinking of having more with his wife, he has been married before, so they are not all hers, and they have two kids of their own. Most people are having kids just to get welfare. Plus he hunts, fishes, and sits on his butt during his off periods playing computers for hours upon hours at one time. There are computer jobs, I think it is time to make some drastic changes all across the board.

Welfare was designed to help people that fell on bad times, not for people to live off of. It was supposed to help until they found a new job to help them.

[Joshmo]

Dont know if I'll ever vote Democrat with the current lineup of slimeballs as contenders - but I do know - unequivically, beyond a shadow of a doubt - I will never, ever, never, never, ever, never again vote for a fucking Republican unless Lucifer himself is running against one - and even then, I'd have to think about it really hard..

[shoe1985]

Well, anyone is better than the current crop of Republicans in office. I always looked at the issues, but even those don't work anymore because once in office they change their ideas.

[Criminal Rock]

This is rediculous... it shouldn't ever be about Republicans or Democrats, it should be about the person and his policies.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
This is rediculous... it shouldn't ever be about Republicans or Democrats, it should be about the person and his policies.


True that.




~darchangel~

[shoe1985]

It should be, but the majority of the people that get in office change their ideas around. They say stuff just to get in office.

[The Postmaster General]

Something I noticed, looking up the history of the minimum wage, was that up until 1981, it seemed that minimum wage was raised on a yearly basis (to cover cost of living raises) -- at least for the most part. There were some gaps. It seems were in a gap now.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/chart.htm

We are currently living during the longest period of time between minimum wage increases. The longest before this was 6 years (during ww2, and again during the early 50s) --- it's currently been 9 years for us.

[shoe1985]

The reason the Republicans give for not raising it is because other prices will rise. Now my counter for that is: Prices are already rising! Gas has gone up almost $2 since the last raise, maybe it has. Food prices are going through the roof alone with pretty much everything else. I guess the working man and woman don't deserve the raise, just the people who sit on their butt in an office with other people to make up these bills.

[Lynn7]

It is inevitable that the minimum wage will go up to keep pace with inflation related to the increasing gas prices. When they frame the argument that way they won't have any problem.

I have to laugh at some of you saying that if the Dems were in things would be better- taxes would be very high and then the wages would go down by paying all the extra taxes. I do agree the Republicans in office are pretty spineless these days but they are better than the Dems by far. The Dems that are currently in office are really mean and are ugly natured. (Joe Lieberman excepted)

[shoe1985]

We need to raise taxes, the only people benefitting from these tax cuts are the big businesses. These businesses keep outsourcing jobs or give them to illegals, and they have both sides of the government on their sides so they can do pretty much anything they want. We need even playing fields and no more tax cuts. This kid in my speech and debate class tried to give reasons for them and we listened and then we told him why they are wrong.

Really the only people supporting these cuts are the rich. Plus they help in keeping wages down because minimum wage stays down.

[The Postmaster General]

WTF?

Taxes ARE going up.

[Lynn7]

I agree that companies that outsource should not be given ANY tax breaks and this should help incent them to stay within the country with jobs. The gov is constantly trying to raise taxes on the little people. A lot of our gas money is going to taxes every time we fill up. Why is this necessary? We pay a lot already. They want to tax everything we do. My Democratic state of Mass used to be known as "Taxachusetts" until we started electing Republican governors. We have had Republican govs I think since Mike Dukakis left. That proves that even Dems realize that Dems have a heavy hand with raising taxes. I havne't heard the Taxachusetts name in a long time.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Lynn7
My Democratic state of Mass used to be known as "Taxachusetts" until we started electing Republican governors. We have had Republican govs I think since Mike Dukakis left. That proves that even Dems realize that Dems have a heavy hand with raising taxes. I havne't heard the Taxachusetts name in a long time.


How does that prove anything? Everyone is hearing "The American President is a moron" more now than when Clinton was in office. What does that prove?

Most importantly - Massachusetts has some of the best schools, services, and upkeep in the entire nation. That means more to me than a bunch yuks making plays-on-words.

And like I said before - Taxes ARE going up. It isn't exactly like you can say that our Republican lead administration and senate has put an end to tax increases, or have even slowed them down. This past year was the first time in my life that I had to pay in, despite my federal tax forms and income not changing.

[shoe1985]

I believe that it is 50 cents that is taxed on for gas. My current gas price in my town is $2.81. Now take out the 50 cents and you have a much better price.

As for Dems taxing a lot, it is true. Repubs don't tax as much as they feel it should be more geared toward tax cuts. Now we need a little of both, but right now we could use raises in taxes instead of tax cuts. It seems the rich are getting all these breaks and the middle class and poor keep getting hammered big time with raises.

Getting help for medical purposes when you can't afford them from your job is nonexistent anymore. I know people who worked their whole lives and have suffered from health problems and go to get help with medical bills and get turned away. What happened to this country? I thought we were for helping each other out. Instead it is becoming cut throat.

One thing we must remember that the President is not alone in this, there is his administration, and the House and Senate.

Remember to vote in November.

[Tuukka]

They've alread spent 300 billion in Iraq. Who is gonna pay for it if not the taxpayers?

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Lynn7
The Dems that are currently in office are really mean and are ugly natured. (Joe Lieberman excepted)


I think this sentence pretty much shot the credibility of every sentence that preceded it into tiny, tiny pieces...



~darchangel~

[Criminal Rock]

I really don't care about the tax issue here in America... either way, money will get into government hands.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
I really don't care about the tax issue here in America... either way, money will get into government hands.

I agree that money will get into the government's hands one way or another Tai Mai, but I can't say that I don't care about it....I just have no power to do anything about it.



~darchangel~

[Criminal Rock]

I mean, its funny though... you raise taxes, the government gets more money... you lower taxes, people spend more, the economy gets stronger, the government gets more money.

I suppose you can dispute "how much" money the government will earn between both methods, but I’m sure it wont make much of a difference either...

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Tuukka
They've alread spent 300 billion in Iraq. Who is gonna pay for it if not the taxpayers?


Exact-o-mondo.

Typically, every time I talk with people about my tax situation, I conclude saying in the most deadpan voice possible, "But of course everyone has to make sacrifices in a time of war."

Of course, I guess not congress, so I'll add that part in now.

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
I mean, its funny though... you raise taxes, the government gets more money... you lower taxes, people spend more, the economy gets stronger, the government gets more money.

I suppose you can dispute "how much" money the government will earn between both methods, but I’m sure it wont make much of a difference either...

I've read economical studies about this, and there is truth to what you are saying. However, the lowered taxes increase the spending and economony ONLY when they are given to low-to-mid income people. Rich people already can buy whatever they want. When their taxes are lowered, they don't spend any more than they used to. They just save it. But when a low income person gets 200$ more every month, he spends it all. And they spend it to stuff that keeps the money circling. They don't buy a new yach or a new mansion. Rich people invest money, poor people spend it.

Of course the current administration is doing the exact opposite of what they should do, if their intention would be to increase the spending and the circulation of money.

[Criminal Rock]

There's nothing to suggest that rich people don't spend as much as the rest of us... if anything, they probably spend more. A lot more.

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
There's nothing to suggest that rich people don't spend as much as the rest of us... if anything, they probably spend more. A lot more.

And I didn't claim so, either. I said that they spend the same amount when they get tax breaks. Where as the poor spend all they get.

An example:

A poor person is left with $1500 after taxes. He spends it all to his rent, to food and basic clothers for himself and his kids. To basics,

Then he get's $200 more every month. Now he cand spend it to stuff he couldn't afford previously: New clothes, restaurants, an X-box, a new bike, tourism.

When a rich person gets 1,5 million a month, he can buy whatever he wants. When he gets 1,7 million a month, he can still buy whatever he wants. So he simply saves the extra money he gets, or he uses it to big investments. Like a car.

Which option do you thinks benefits the economy the most:

A) A rich man's money sits on a bank account.

B) An expensive car is made and sold to one rich person.

C) 1000 people use restaurants, buy clothes, do tourism, etc. And they do this month after month, repeatedly.

...Which option keeps the money circling more? Which creates more jobs?

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
There's nothing to suggest that rich people don't spend as much as the rest of us... if anything, they probably spend more. A lot more.


What he's saying is that they typically spend it on investments like collateral - houses, cars, yachts, stocks. Things they can later sell. The poor purchase things that are expendable.

Poor people simply cannot afford stock in companies that provide expensive goods. They can't. The rich can invest money in Ford, or something, and go out and buy a Ford, thereby giving money back to themselves. Rich people can also invest money in Wal-Mart, and area able to buy enough shares that changes in the price makes a difference.

Cars, and boats are the same way - You know what the depreciation on a friggin Saturn is?

Investments work for rich people more than they do for the poor - like the old adage "the poor stay poor and the rich get richer".

I'm not saying it's totally bleak, but the fact is that rich are better able to invest money.

About the only thing the poor could possibly invest in would be housing, but even that takes a lot of investment. A rich person can buy a cheap house and rent it out to a poor person because they can afford the taxes, insurance, upkeep - Mo' Money! Mo' Money! Mo' Money.

Like Tuuka said - poor people spend money, and rich people invest money.


EDIT: And like he said also - the money poor people spends generates more movement in the economy.

[Tuukka]

BTW, I'm too lazy to google for links, but the above thing is just something that economical studies have shown in many countries. And it's logical from a common sense point of view.

(Bubba did a good job on expanding my point)

[Criminal Rock]

I misread what you said, my bad... though my mistake did bring out some interesting points...

[shoe1985]

The only thing that the rich give back is jobs usually. But that isn't true these days because they have begun to go with the cheaper labor, so now the poor can't even live.

[electriclite]

Originally posted by Tuukka
They don't buy a new yach or a new mansion. Rich people invest money, poor people spend it.


Specifically, the poor or middle class spend that money paying bills, or not necessarily on stuff for fun, although there is the significant few who spend it on rims ;)

I recall my mother spending her tax cut on long overdue dental checkups and cleanings for me my brother and sister. Guess how fast that money went?

Ideally everyone should save money, but if you have a home, car, kids, debts, bills etc, it becomes pretty damn hard. Especially if you don't have health insurance. Emergency rooms do cost money , and if you have a chronic illness, kiss a savings good bye.

[TheDeadWalk]

Originally posted by Tuukka
Rich people invest money, poor people spend it.


Where are the rich investing their money, and where are the poor people spending it? The poor can't really outsource or invest in foreign markets.

[shoe1985]

The bad thing about that is the poor have to buy the stuff that is outsourced because it is in their budget.

If we outsource jobs, we should tax the hell on what is being imported by that company that did it. We need to save the working man's and woman's job. If companies want to build factories outside of the USA, go ahead, but sell the stuff to that country. Help them out, not just your pockets.

People wouldn't complain as much about minimum wage, if they could get decent paying jobs.

[shoe1985]

Just announced for Pennsylvania, minimum wage will be $7.15 an hour for the whole state starting in 2007. Governor Rendell signed it in. This is amazing news. One for the good guys.