Potential for World War

[Lynn7]

Israel threatens Hammas they had better release the hostage:

Article (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/ISRAEL_PALESTINIANS?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-06-27-08-08-15)

[JCR]

Not really a world war though is it? Every other country in the world needs to get involved in this like they need a hole in the head.

[Lynn7]

Many of the Mulims are just lying in wait for something like this. They are looking for the match that will set the hay afire in all the Muslim countries. (That is, if Israel invades Palestine and overthrows the government). Then the entire world would have to get involved or get dragged into it. I have a feeling the soldier will be released. I admire that Israel is not going to let what happened to our two tortured soldiers happen to this poor guy.

[Vong]

I hate it how everyone seems to be in the defense of Israel, as if they are the only victims in this crisis. I'm pissed off at the media for labelling anything the Palestinians do as "terrorism", while Israel's actions are merely seen as "self-defense". If anything, both countries are guilty of terrorism. The latest from Palestine is the kidnapping of this soldier, while Israel shot missiles at a beach killing and wounding Palestinians on a beach. Not labelling that missile attack by Israel as a terrorist act is another example of media hypocrisy.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Vong
while Israel shot missiles at a beach killing and wounding Palestinians on a beach.


Oh my god, I saw that on the news...the little girl who found her father's body when they had been on a picnic for her good grades in school.

I nearly got sick watching it, and I started crying...that poor little girl was HYSTERICAL, and the camera crew wouldn't stop taping long enough to help her.

Maybe this is why I won't use my journalism degree for investigative reporting...



~darchangel~

[Lynn7]

The Israelis deny that missile was from them. They did an investigation and gave many reasons why that missile was not from them. Some of these other countries are not above staging things to look like Israelis or Americans have done the bad things when it may really be some creepy people orchestrating it.

The bible says that the countries who bless Israel will be blessed and the countries who curse Israel will be cursed. Something to take note of :)

[Vong]

The Israelis deny that missile was from them. They did an investigation and gave many reasons why that missile was not from them. Some of these other countries are not above staging things to look like Israelis or Americans have done the bad things when it may really be some creepy people orchestrating it.

Just as there is reason to think Palestinians blew up there own people, there are reasons for Israel to deny they attacked them. Either way, it doesn't side from the fact that innocent people were killed because of pety bickering and religious nonsense.

The bible says that the countries who bless Israel will be blessed and the countries who curse Israel will be cursed. Something to take note of

How convenient. Justification for the Israelites to do whatever the hell they want.

Sorry to burst your bubble Lynn, but international relations does not base itself in superstition. Applying bible versus to foreign policy is like using a ouija board to determine the weather.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Lynn7
The bible says that the countries who bless Israel will be blessed and the countries who curse Israel will be cursed. Something to take note of :)


So would you consider this documented proof that Israel's not responsible for the missile?

You can't believe that a woman could lose her job and have to go on public assistance because of a broken wrist, but you can believe the Palestinians bombed themselves and blamed it on Israel just to make them look bad??? That seems REALLLLLYYYY farfetched, Lynn...



~darchangel~

[electriclite]

Originally posted by Lynn7

The bible says that the countries who bless Israel will be blessed and the countries who curse Israel will be cursed. Something to take note of :)


9/11

Something else to take note of.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by darchangel
So would you consider this documented proof that Israel's not responsible for the missile?

You can't believe that a woman could lose her job and have to go on public assistance because of a broken wrist, but you can believe the Palestinians bombed themselves and blamed it on Israel just to make them look bad??? That seems REALLLLLYYYY farfetched, Lynn...



~darchangel~

No it's just that Israel has a better track record of telling the truth than some of these Palestinain leaders. They lie a lot and are not above taking the opportunity for blaming Israel for many things. Most Jewish people are liberals and yet it seems like many liberals have an anti-semetic slant much of the time. I dont' get why the Jewish people aren't conservative cause it is because of the very Bible teaching I quoted that most conservatives will always be pro-Israel. Sharon often said that President Bush was a dear friend of Israel.

PS Israel has begun the operation in Palestine. Here we go.......

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by Vong
I hate it how everyone seems to be in the defense of Israel, as if they are the only victims in this crisis. I'm pissed off at the media for labelling anything the Palestinians do as "terrorism", while Israel's actions are merely seen as "self-defense". If anything, both countries are guilty of terrorism. The latest from Palestine is the kidnapping of this soldier, while Israel shot missiles at a beach killing and wounding Palestinians on a beach. Not labelling that missile attack by Israel as a terrorist act is another example of media hypocrisy.

Irsrael's aggresion can be attributed to the fact that they are surronded on all sides (and then some) by countries that want (and have tried) to wipe them out. The only reason why Israel continues to exist is because of their 'take no shit' attitude.
It's by no means pretty but until Mosques in the Middle East stop singing hymms about washing their hands in Jewish blood it is the only strategy that will work.

[Scorpio24]

Here's the latest anyway.


Israel continue offensive and warns of "Extreme Action" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5124872.stm)

[Vong]

The only reason why Israel continues to exist is because of their 'take no shit' attitude.

And the fact that the US has stood behind them during all debates to Israel's actions in the UN Security Council.

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by Vong
And the fact that the US has stood behind them during all debates to Israel's actions in the UN Security Council.

Allies tend to do that for each other.
And don't talk like the U.S. doesn't do anything to help the Palestinians either. Before we withdrew much of our aide to them, due to their electing of Hamas, much of their infrastructure was paid for with American money.

[echo_bravo]

I hate it how everyone seems to be in the defense of Israel, as if they are the only victims in this crisis. I'm pissed off at the media for labelling anything the Palestinians do as "terrorism",

You obviously havent watched CNN.

[TheAxeGrinder]

Israel and Palestine are both to blame, as far as I'm concerned. Israelis won't compromise, and Palestine with their Muslim mentality want to blow themselves up as martyrs, taking innocents with them.

As far as a world war, if worse came to worse, I don't think it would come close to WW3, unless you somehow get a Palestine/Iran/Iraq alliance going, with North Korea thrown in for good measure. As it stands, the most you could get out of this would be another war between Israel and Palestine.

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by TheAxeGrinder
Israel and Palestine are both to blame, as far as I'm concerned. Israelis won't compromise

Really? Didn't they just give the Palestinians an impressive amount of land effectively displacing 5,000 of it's own citizens. What has Palestine done?

[Criminal Rock]

They blow themselves up in the name of God.

...

Seems fair to me.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by EVILxxx
Really? Didn't they just give the Palestinians an impressive amount of land effectively displacing 5,000 of it's own citizens. What has Palestine done?

Considering they only have a few hundred miles of (formerly) unoccupied territory, they ain't in much of a position to trade land.

However I'm starting to have more sympathy for Israel than Palestines now, but I'm cynical if either side can ever actually attain peace.

[Lynn7]

Yeah, I remember when the Israelis cleared their people out of their homes to make way for the Palestinians and while the Israeli people were wailing over its governments' decision to compomise the Palestinains were rubbing it in calling them names and deepening the humiliation that the Jews felt. Then of course the Palestinians were so grateful that they began to launch attacks at the Israelis and of course voted in Hammas as a new goverenment. I think the Israelis have bent over backwards and I am not against what they are doing now. It's all about survival, not negotiation.

[electriclite]

Just like the Troubles in Northern Ireland this battle between Israel and Palestine has gone far beyond the original problem that spawned it, and therefore cannot be fixed just by giving back what sparked the strife.

50 years of being this way isn't going to fade away in one begrudged act of compromise.

Both combatants are engaged in a war of survival on both ends, and both are responsible for each other other's desperate grab for it. They're both locked in this neverending cycle of violence because its all they know, and until both sides mentally evolve beyond living on memories of the past, this is going to go on for quite awhile, until someone with some pull wakes up and says "This is not living."

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by MacReady
Considering they only have a few hundred miles of (formerly) unoccupied territory, they ain't in much of a position to trade land.



I wasn't referring to the Palestinians giving up some of their land to Israel, I was just kind of hoping that they would stop blowing themselves up in marketplaces.

[Vong]

An interesting read on the media's unequal treatment of the Palestine-Israel situation.

*EDIT* Site will not let me link to their page.
I will post it instead.

*EDIT 2* Site won't let me do anything to the editorial.
I will try to figure something out for you guys to see it. :confused:

[Criminal Rock]

Broken link.

[Criminal Rock]

Things are getting really fucked up over there.

[Scorpio24]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
Things are getting really fucked up over there.


You're not kidding. (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/13/mideast/index.html)

[Lynn7]

And now all the countires are starting to chime in- The US sides with Israel but I think I read Russia thinks Israel is wrong and someone else was critical oif Israel too. Interesting developments...

[Scorpio24]

I can't see how Israel can be held to task here.

They have had members of their army kidnapped inside their own country. It is an act of war. Although Lebanon are saying and maybe validly that they have no connection with this group and that the goverment want nothing to do with them.


So I just contradicted myself. Never mind.

[echo_bravo]

Go Israel! Rep' yo hood!!!!

[Monotreme]

Alright. First of all, allow me to introduce myself. I live in Israel, and earlier today Hezbolla fired a Katyusha missile on my city of Haifa. It landed not 15 minutes away from my home. I felt compelled to join in on this discussion and set a few things straight. First of all:

Originally posted by darchangel
Oh my god, I saw that on the news...the little girl who found her father's body when they had been on a picnic for her good grades in school.

I nearly got sick watching it, and I started crying...that poor little girl was HYSTERICAL, and the camera crew wouldn't stop taping long enough to help her.

Maybe this is why I won't use my journalism degree for investigative reporting...
It has already been proven that this supposed attack on the beach was staged by the Palestinians. Reports came from them and from them only, footage came from them, and the interview with the girl was staged. They have done this countless times before, a pathetic twist of the media to their purposes in order to gain sympathy - the various staged funerals, the supposed Israeli attack on an ambulance which turned out to be falsely reported by the Palestinians... the list goes on. I think it's safe to say that they are compulsive liars. But this isn't even about the Palestinians, even though the kidnapping of the soldier in Gaza is unforgiveable and is just proof to the world, at last, that Hamas is nothing more than a terrorist regime. Luckily, our ally Abu Mazen is on the inside and hopefully he can help us settle the score - Hamas are as much his enemy as they are ours.

Now, regarding the current Lebanon crisis. There are a few things that must be emphasized and made clear. Firstly, the crisis is entirely Hezbollah's fault. Any attempt to put the blame on Israel is nothing more than a cheap lie - Hezbollah triggered the series of events with their unprecedented attack on an IDF base within Israeli territory, the kidnapping of 2 soldiers and the murder of 8. One of my best friends was a friend of one of the soldiers that was killed. She was crushed, cried all day yesterday.

And for some reason, the countries of the world, save for our allies in the United States and a few other places, are criticizing Israel for this crisis. They say that the retribution is "too strong", "exaggerated", "uncalled for". What do they expect us to do? Match the Hezbollah forces with an equal force and be locked in a perpetual deadlock? The only way to stop these attacks once and for all is swift and powerful retribution. Innocent lives are always lost in conflict, it is the unfortunate truth. But the bullshit propoganda lies that the Arab allies of Lebanon are bombarding the media with are really uncalled for - blaming Israel for "targeting civillians". Well look whose talking, hypocritical bastards - Lebanon has been bombarding Israeli towns near the Northern border with Katyusha missiles all day long. And none of the Arab allies dare call the Hezbollah "terrorists", they save that title for the IDF. And the world media eats this stuff up like it was an ice cream sundae.

And fuck CNN. All they have been doing all day is reporting on all of the military targets within Lebanon the IDF has been attacking. Not once, all day long, did they bother mentioning that Lebanon fired over 100 Katyusha missiles on Israeli cities. In the north, people have moved to live inside bomb shelters. They sleep there and spend all day in there. The missiles fall every hour. 2 have been killed, dozens wounded.

What is the difference between the civillian casualties, you ask? Sure, Lebanon has far more. But civillian casualties are an unfortunate result of war. Do you know how many civillian casualties were caused during the latest war in Iraq? Steps are always taken to avoid such casualties, but when people walk around in the streets instead of staying in their homes like they are told to, things like this happen. The IDF is targeting military and Hezbollah targets ONLY. The fact that civillians get in the way is unfortunate. But Hezbollah, on the other hand, with their Katyusha firing, are TARGETING ISRAELI CIVILLIANS. The Arab countries and many other countries of the world that are easily subdued by their propoganda claim that Lebanon's missile firing is an "act of defense." Can somebody please tell me how bombarding CIVILLIAN targets is an act of defense?

The Lebanese government... those bunch of pansies. Their knees too weak, about to buckle under the weight of the Hezbollah. The Hezbollah have the government in their pocket, and no matter how much pressure is put on the government, Hezbollah have the leverage. Say what they want, they won't be able to stop the terrorist acts of Hezbollah. And so, Israel has no choice but to stop them by herself - as an act of defense, because the constant bombardment of the northern settlements is unacceptable. In fact, the real enemy is Iran - For the past few months Iran has been publically stating that its first and foremost goal is the annihilation of the state of Israel, and the world just sits by and ignores this claim. Alright, so they're not actually opening a front from their country, but they are attacking Israel on different fronts. through their allies in Syria and Lebanon and in the Hezbollah.

We cannot stand by and let these terrorist acts happen. Actions must be taken because nobody else has the balls to do anything about it. And then the countries of the world conveniently side with the underdog - terrorists, mind you - and criticize Israel for being "too brutal." Well, boo to any country who says such things.

[shoe1985]

I haven't follow this battle between these two countries. I know that the middle east is a mess. It seems like everybody is fighting everyone. We need unity, but I don't see it ever happening.

[Monotreme]

It'll never happen as long as the Arab countries and the Palestinain authority are held by their throats by terrorist organizations who are dead set on keeping the situation chaotic, because it is under these chaotic circumstances that they can flourish. Israel is merely an excuse to keep things hectic - and so long as the Arab/Palestinian governments feel it is more important to wage geurilla war with Israel than to reach peace, then by god there won't be any.

[Lynn7]

Monotreme,
I agree with everything you say. Israel needs to defend itself. I think Iran is behind a lot of this too. They are just chmping at the bit to destroy your country and the US too. The world is crazy for standing with the terrorists cause they will be next to be destroyed. Russia and North Korea have sold technology to the terrorists from what I can gather. Dont' they know that once Isreal and the Us is weakened they will also be destroyed. What are they thinking. I agree that Isreal goes out of its way to NOT hurt civilians while the terrorists will deliberately kill children.These are evil people. We need to stand against them.

A few weeks ago some guy was on tv saying that England has many Muslims living there but I think he said that France has about 6 million living there. There can be a real turn of power in some of these European countries. It's a precarious situation for the entire world.

[EVILxxx]

U.S. Casts First UN Security Coucil Veto in 2 Years

UNITED NATIONS — The United States cast the first U.N. Security Council veto in nearly two years Thursday, blocking an Arab-backed resolution that would have demanded Israel halt its military offensive in the Gaza Strip.

The draft, sponsored by Qatar, accused Israel of a "disproportionate use of force" that endangered Palestinian civilians, and it demanded Israel withdraw its troops from Gaza.

Earlier Thursday, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan announced he will send three veteran U.N. officials to the Middle East in a bid to defuse what he called a "major crisis" there, the United Nations said Thursday, as the European Union criticized Israel for using what it called "disproportionate" force in its attacks on Lebanon.

Annan was responding to a flare-up in violence that began two weeks ago when Israeli forces launched an offensive in the Gaza Strip to free a captured soldier. Israel then launched attacks against Lebanon on Wednesday after Hezbollah militants captured two Israeli soldiers.

The team will be led by Vijay Nambiar, Annan's special political adviser. It also includes U.N. Mideast envoy Alvaro de Soto and Terje Roed-Larsen, Annan's special envoy who has overseen implementation of a U.N. resolution demanding Syria end its sway over Lebanon.

The EU also called Israel's naval blockade cutting off supply routes to Lebanon unjustified.

"The European Union is greatly concerned about the disproportionate use of force by Israel in Lebanon in response to attacks by Hezbollah on Israel," according to a statement issued by Finland, which holds the EU's rotating presidency. "The presidency deplores the loss of civilian lives and the destruction of civilian infrastructure. The imposition of an air and sea blockade on Lebanon cannot be justified."

In the EU's strongest comment on the escalating violence, the statement said "actions, which are contrary to international humanitarian law, can only aggravate the vicious circle of violence and retribution, and cannot serve anyone's legitimate security interests."

It called for the immediate release of the Israeli soldiers, and urged "all countries in the region to work for the restoration of calm in order to avoid the further escalation of the situation into war."

Separately, EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said he was planning a peace mission to the Middle East. Solana said he was in "permanent contact" with players in the region and with Annan.

"Following these contacts, I envisage going to the region," he said in a statement.

EU diplomats said it was unclear when Solana would leave, but it could be before Monday's meeting of European foreign ministers in Brussels which will likely be dominated by the Middle East crisis.

The EU called on all sides to halt the escalating violence and take care to avoid more civilian casualties. EU spokeswoman Emma Udwin said EU foreign ministers could discuss whether the Israeli military attacks on Lebanon were compatible with the bloc's trade and cooperation agreement with Israel, which is conditional on respect for international law.

"I'm not a lawyer, but that will be a subject of a major discussion that foreign affairs ministers will conduct on Monday. There, the EU's reaction will take form and will be explained in some detail," she told reporters.

She stressed, however, that the EU recognized "Israel's right to defend itself." Israel's military action came after a cross-border raid by Hezbollah guerillas in which two Israeli soldiers were captured and several others were killed.

EU diplomats said there was no suggestion the EU would consider freezing any part of the agreements regulating economic relations between Israel and the 25-nation EU — Israel's main trading partner which buys about one-third of Israel's exports.

"Every effort must be taken not to harm civilians," Udwin said. "All parties must respect their obligations under international law to protect civilians from the effects of conflict."
-Foxnews.com

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Monotreme
It'll never happen as long as the Arab countries and the Palestinain authority are held by their throats by terrorist organizations who are dead set on keeping the situation chaotic, because it is under these chaotic circumstances that they can flourish. Israel is merely an excuse to keep things hectic - and so long as the Arab/Palestinian governments feel it is more important to wage geurilla war with Israel than to reach peace, then by god there won't be any.

Do you really believe this is all the fault of the terrorist and arab leaders? You don't think it has to do with the fact that there are soldiers from your country bombing airports and making whoever comes to assist the Lebanese people in ejecting the 'evil zionist entity' from their country look like heroes, even when they're the ones who essentially started the whole mess.

Look, I know you have the right to retaliate against somebody going into your borders and kidnapping your own soldiers but how do the 47 currently dead civilians help you get them back? I think the whole 'punish the whole group because a few are misbehaving' is stupid and not the way your country and sucessfully defend itself.

I'm not saying "don't strike back", just "strike back in another fashion". For both sides sake.

[Scorpio24]

Originally posted by Lynn7
A few weeks ago some guy was on tv saying that England has many Muslims living there but I think he said that France has about 6 million living there. There can be a real turn of power in some of these European countries. It's a precarious situation for the entire world.



Now i'm not trying to put words into your mouth but just what does that statement mean?

We should kick out all muslims from Europe becasue there's getting to many of them?

[Scorpio24]

Monotreme:


Even though I totaly agree with Israel's right to the aggressive actions they have taken. Are they against the wrong people?

Maybe you can shed more light on it for me. I was under the impression that Hezbollah was not connected to the Lebanese goverment themselves? I thought that they were a terrorist organistion that were resdiding in Lebanon?

I maybe wrong about that fact but if i'm not isn't it like France bombing Madrid if Basque Eta terrorists kidnapped soldiers from France?

[EVILxxx]

From what I understand it is both Scorpio.
Hezzbollah represents a kind of disenfranchised section of Shi'ite Muslims in Lebanon. They hold 20 seats in the Lebanese parliament because that is who the Shi'ite's vote for as a political party (not unlike Hamas). I don't think the Lebanese are particularly thrilled about it, but there isn't much they can do.
Unfortunately they are heavily funded by Iran, recieving about 200 mil a year from them. They have also killed more Americans than any other terrorist organization, save Alqueda.

[Monotreme]

Interestingly enough, in the article that EVILxxx posted, they didn't even mention that in addition to the two Israeli soldiers kidnapped by Hezbollah, another 8 were killed during their attack. They also failed to mention the Katyusha missile bombardments on the northern settlements in Israel all day yesterday - more than 100 missiles launched, two casualties, hundreds of injured. No mention at all. CNN also conveniently chooses to ignore these actions, because it's more convenient for them to side with Hezbollah.

Originally posted by MacReady
Do you really believe this is all the fault of the terrorist and arab leaders? You don't think it has to do with the fact that there are soldiers from your country bombing airports and making whoever comes to assist the Lebanese people in ejecting the 'evil zionist entity' from their country look like heroes, even when they're the ones who essentially started the whole mess.

All the fault? Clearly not. Israel has had a truly terrible history of causing trouble. The 1982-2000 war in Lebanon was truly uncalled for, and a pathetic attempt from our side to change the way things work around here. It was a failed operation in any case. If anybody doesn't know anything about it, here is a brief description: In 1982 Israeli forces entered Lebanon in an attempt to overthrow the government and appoint a pro-Israeli leader who would put a stop to the control Syria and the Hezbollah had over the country. We reached Beirut, appointed a new leader - but he was assassinated by Hezbollah like a few days after the whole thing happened. Israel retreated rom Beirut but was forced to remain in Southern Lebanon for another two decades in order to fend off the Hezbollah attacks on the northern settlements. In 2000 PM Ehud Barak withdrew all military presence from Lebanon. We rejoiced, but our Palestinian neighbours saw this as a sign of weakness and started the second Intifada.

Israel's hold of the Gaza strip and the West Bank is also a huge weakness for us. With the withdrawl from Gaza, though, it seems like my country has finally realised that peace can only be attained if we take the first step. Hopefull, Olmert will stand by his withdrawl plan from the West Bank, and then the ball will be in the Palestinian's court. With the new Hamas regime in Palestine, though, things aren't looking good - that is unless Abu Mazen manages to retain his influence. He is our first true ally in the Palestinain authority - but don't get me wrong, he is also a terrorist what with all his dealings with the terrorist organization Fatah. Luckily, Hamas is a mutual enemy for both of us, so, that might work out.

But this Lebanon crisis has nothing to do with the Palestinians, and everything to do with Iran. With Iran there is no remorse. It is not "both sides" fault because save for the annihilation of their nuclear development facility in the 80's, Israel has never shown hostility towards Iran. But with their new leadership, the country's government has set a goal - the destruction of the state of Israel. This goal is unjustified, uncalled for and could mean trouble for years to come in this area, especially if they pull their strings in our neighbouring countries Lebanon and Syria to cause mayhem. As EVILxxx mentioned, the Iranian government heavily funds Hezbollah's operations. Aside from their seats in the Lebanese parliament, Hezbollah basically have the government by its throat - they attain freedom of operations by use of threats and bribes. As mentioned before, I don't think the Lebanese government and people are particularly happy about it, but they are too weak to really do anything about it. Syria, allies of Iran, also have much influence in the country by use of agents and seats in the parliament.

These air strikes are definitely heavy, and I'm not entirely sure what the final goal of the IDF is, but I'm sure it has to do with neutralizing and attrition. I am not a war supporter, and I truly hope this conflict will end soon, but we have no choice but to defend ourselves. The current situation, the status quo of the Hezbollah's influence and control over Southern Lebanon is a constant threat to the country and it's about time it is eliminated. Thankfully, the country for now has avoided sending ground forces in to Lebanon. Once that happens, THEN everything will go to hell, but for now, I'd say the chances of an escalation to an all-out war are slim.

Despite this, the Lebanese civillian deaths are tragic and uncalled for. Perhaps more focused attacks by the IDF would do us all good - it seems that many of these deaths are caused mainly by carelessness. Bomb the Hezbollah TV and radio station - but the nearby houses also get destroyed. It pisses me off that the army is incapable of doing anything more focused and direct, and I hope they find a solution to this problem soon, because it is a really bad scar on the IDF's Lebanon Crisis resume.

[Scorpio24]

Originally posted by EVILxxx
From what I understand it is both Scorpio.
Hezzbollah represents a kind of disenfranchised section of Shi'ite Muslims in Lebanon. They hold 20 seats in the Lebanese parliament because that is who the Shi'ite's vote for as a political party (not unlike Hamas). I don't think the Lebanese are particularly thrilled about it, but there isn't much they can do.
Unfortunately they are heavily funded by Iran, recieving about 200 mil a year from them. They have also killed more Americans than any other terrorist organization, save Alqueda.


Ok thanks for the explanation.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by Scorpio24
Now i'm not trying to put words into your mouth but just what does that statement mean?

We should kick out all muslims from Europe becasue there's getting to many of them?

I am not sayign to kick these people out but I am saying that if those 6 million people rise up in support of Iran or Syria France could see a turn of power in a few days really. It is something to be aware of. It is what it is. I think much of the reason that France has been against a lot of US policy is to keep the peace with the Muslim population. I could be wrong but I wonder.

As far as Lebanon goes, my husband is Lebanese and has two aunts living in Beirut. One aunt lived there all through the wars and had to practically live in her basement for years because of bombing etc. Lebanon has been a Christian country but has been infiltrated by Syrian Muslims throughout the war. It has been a tragic state of affairs there for many many years. Many of the Christians have left and gone to other countries. Things have calmed down in recent years and people have begun to come back again but now I'm sure that will be over.

[Vong]

The United States cast the first U.N. Security Council veto in nearly two years Thursday, blocking an Arab-backed resolution that would have demanded Israel halt its military offensive in the Gaza Strip.

No surprise here.
25 vetoes in support of Israel and counting.
Wonder if they'll veto today's resolution as well.

Israel has gone too far in this situation. Since they have major support from the West, Israel feels they have the ability to do as they please in this situation. The West wants to see what Israel does, and pull its leash when things get out of control. Even after calls from Lebanon and Qatar to call for a cease-fire, it is ignored and the fighting continues. It'll probably be when WMD's are being aimed that the (influential/powerful) leaders will call for an end to this massacre.

The greater question is if this is all worth the lives of 3 captured soldiers, while hundreds of civilians on all fronts are being wounded or killed.

[Vong]

I think much of the reason that France has been against a lot of US policy is to keep the peace with the Muslim population. I could be wrong but I wonder.

You are right. France has taken care in its foreign policy so it doesn't affect its Muslim population. That isn't to say that its domestic policy is gold, though. Examples are the riots in France not too long ago in regards to the mistreatment of Muslims in their neighbourhoods.

[QUENTIN]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I am not sayign to kick these people out but I am saying that if those 6 million people rise up in support of Iran or Syria France could see a turn of power in a few days really. It is something to be aware of. It is what it is. I think much of the reason that France has been against a lot of US policy is to keep the peace with the Muslim population. I could be wrong but I wonder.


That's scary, and something to worry about. You know what I find even scarier? There are more than two hundred million Christians in the United States. We have to worry that at any time, they could rise up in support of fundamentalist right-wingers and there could be a turn of power in a few elections really. It is something to be aware of. It is what it is. I think much of the reason the U.S. has been against a lot of sensible, Constitutional policies is to keep peace with the Christian population. I could be wrong but I wonder.

[Jon Lyrik]

Them dirty Ay-rabs don't share our Christian values, Quentin.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Jon Lyrik
Them dirty Ay-rabs don't share our Christian values, Quentin.

<dies laughing>



~darchangel~

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by Vong
No surprise here.
25 vetoes in support of Israel and counting.
Wonder if they'll veto today's resolution as well.

Israel has gone too far in this situation. Since they have major support from the West, Israel feels they have the ability to do as they please in this situation. The West wants to see what Israel does, and pull its leash when things get out of control. Even after calls from Lebanon and Qatar to call for a cease-fire, it is ignored and the fighting continues. It'll probably be when WMD's are being aimed that the (influential/powerful) leaders will call for an end to this massacre.

The greater question is if this is all worth the lives of 3 captured soldiers, while hundreds of civilians on all fronts are being wounded or killed.
Thing is, this fight is not against the Lebanese regime and army, who are wisely staying out of it. So their calls for cease-fire are meaningless to Israel since they are not the enemy. The Hezbollah is the enemy, and with Nasrallah declaring "open war" on Israel... I don't really see what else can be done.

Matching their forces is no longer an option. Attacking Katyusha missile launching locations and Hezbollah targets in Southern Lebanon near the border is no longer an option. The status quo cannot remain. Alright, so we'll reach a cease-fire, Hezbollah will get another 5 years to arm themselves, and then the events will simply repeat themselves for years and years. No, a reform is required, and the Hezbollah infrastructure must be fractured in order for Israel to no longer have to worry about the threat in the north. Roads are being bombed, there is a naval and air blockade on the country... and this is all to prevent the entry of more weapons and supply from Iran and Syria to support the Hezbollah.

It is unfortunate that the Hezbollah bases of operation are inside residential buildings in south Beirut. But civillians and residents in the area of southern Beirut recieved warnings 24 hours in advance to Israel's attack to distance themselves from any Hezbollah base of operations. What more is wanted from Israel? To send in ground troops to make sure all the houses are clear before they will be bombed to destroy Hezbollah bases of operation? Because believe you me, nobody, including Israel, wants to repeat what happened in lebanon in 1982.

Hezbollah has declared open war on Israel. There's no turning back now. Cease-fire? Out of the question. As long as Hezbollah and Nasrallah remain hostile, there is really no other logical solution to this crisis but to continue in the wearing out of their resources and forces until they agree to lay down their weapons and open discussion with Israel.

Also, we owe nothing to the Lebanese government, who throughout all these years was too weak to restrain Hezbollah and allowed free conduct of this terrorist organization within their country. This is as much their fault as it is Hezbollah's.

And then of course there are the long-term implications, namely Iran's goal of wiping out Israel. The Hezbollah are simply a puppet of Iran, and if this offensive fails, Iran will find other ways to attack Israel.

We all want this conflict to end quickly. As long as the Israeli military is acting in Lebanon, we are all at risk. And this year, myself along with everyone my age all over the country are being drafted into the IDF. Our lives and the lives of my friends are at stake as long as this hostility continues. We also have too much on our hands as it is with the hostile terrorist Hamas regime in Gaza and the West Bank who refuses to stand back from its hostility towards Israel. The Lebanese government is dying to end this conflict - just as they managed to resurrect their country and its economy, the Hezbollah flushed everything down the toilet. Beirut returned to being a popular tourist locale - now, the city is abandoned. hundreds of Thousands of Saudi Arabian tourists were evacuated by the Saudi Arabian government, who sent thousands of buses to transfer the tourists to Damascus (this was before the road was bombed). The countries of the world obviously want the conflict to end quickly, as oil prices are skyrocketing and world stock is plummeting.

The only people who don't want to see the conflict end are Hezbollah and Nasrallah. As a terrorist organization, they feed off chaos and warfare. This is where they prosper. And as long as they don't forsee an end anytime soon, there won't be one. The ball is in their court. If they back down, Israel will as well. If Israel will back down, Hezbollah will simply continue with the hostility, increase the rocket fire and possibly invade.

CNN and Fox reported the Israeli attacks on Lebanon very elaborately today. But once again they failed to mention that over 100 rockets were launched on the northern towns in Israel. Dozens wounded. Two dead. Earlier this evening, a residential house in a small northern town took a direct hit by a rocket. The family in the house were sitting down for their Friday evening dinner when the rocket burst through the dining room wall. The family was from Nahariyya, a northern town that was hit by many rockets yesterday. The grandparents of the family invited them to stay at their house for the weekend, where they'd be safer from the rockets then back at home. Two family members were killed instantly - a grandmother and a young child. The rest of the family were wounded, some mortally, including three other children.

The collateral damage Lebanese civillians are suffering because they refuse to move out of the way from the Hezbollah targets is incomparable to these brutal and unprecedented attacks by Hezbollah TARGETING Israeli civillians. Giving in to these terrorists is giving them just what they want.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I want this violence to end just as much and just as quickly as anyone else in the world. But seeing the current situation and Hezbollah's relentless hostility towards my country... As of now, I don't see any other way out of this.

Israel, by the way, only has major support from the United States and the United Kingdom. All other countries in the European Union and elsewhere do nothing but criticize Israel's actions during this crisis. And obviously, the Arab countries of the world are all dying to see Israel loose, even those that pass across as "Western" countries.

[shoe1985]

I was just watching CNN and one of the Hamas supporters was saying they were going to get rid of the jews. My god, this is such a disgrace. All over pretty much religion. Everyone is different and has different believes, live with it. There is no reason to take someone's life over it. Plus this battle over who owns what is stupid. People are dying for stupid stuff. Here is an idea, go to work, and live your life.

[Vong]

The Israeli militaries motives in Lebanon are three-fold; release the prisoners from Hezbollah, push them away from Israel's border, and punish the Lebonese government for allowing the group to roam freely in the country.

If Israel intends to pursue these goals, it will be extremely costly to their army and their countries safety. Since the Hezbollah have captured the soldiers, it is unlikely they will release them. The Hezbollah have occupied southern Lebanon for over 20 years, and any attempt to remove them would be impossible.

Also, we owe nothing to the Lebanese government, who throughout all these years was too weak to restrain Hezbollah and allowed free conduct of this terrorist organization within their country. This is as much their fault as it is Hezbollah's.

The Lebonese government has had little effort in controlling the Hezbollah because they still remain an extremely powerful and influential group in Lebanon and Syria. They run hundreds of schools, hospitals and other charities. It is also because of this that the Lebanese government did not want to attempt to disband the group. The fact is that democracy has allowed Hezbollah to rise to power, where they have gained seats in the Lebanoese parliament.

Lebanon is an extremely delicate country that has experienced alot of pain and anguish for decades. It is a prime example of a socio-economic collapse and a country left in ruins by a revolution. Militias like the Hezbollah rise due to the inadequacies of their governments will to act. The Hezbollah became successful in the 90's in pushing Israeli troops out of south Lebanon. Many people, espcially in the south, depend on the militia for economic neccessities. While the international community may label Hezbollah as a terrorist organization, it isn't without its support for the aid it has given to its people.

Israel says they are ready to eliminate the Hezbollah, but it seems the Hezbollah are ready to fight back. I believe Israel has entered a conflict it won't win, and once again history is repeating itself in an area already scarred with war.

[EVILxxx]

Yeah Vong Hezbollah are a bunch of swell guys. Blowing up embassies and the like.
Hezbollah has power because they have money. Hezbollah has money because they are funded by Iran. Do you really think that Lebanon wants Iran to throw it's weight around in their country, charities or not?

[Vong]

Dude, all I said was that it has support from Lebanon's citizens. I'm not oblivious to what it has done in the past and present, nor do I support the group in any way.

I'm just balancing the argument and citing an old adage; "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." We might see Hezbollah as a terrorist group, but where its counts in the cities in south Lebanon these people are life savers. And just because money is streamed from Iran, doesn't mean the people in Lebanon won't accept the help.

[Lynn7]

I don't agree with the thought that one man's terrorist is anotehr man's freedom fighter. There is right and there is wrong. Israel has given up a great deal in the effort to find peace and they are mocked, ridiculed and threatened with extermination. If they wait around until things get "really bad" they will have waited too late. It is time to act decisively against these terrorists. If Lebanon doens't like having bombs dropped on them they should kick out the terrorists. But I agree they are too weak to do this cause they know that if they stand against the terrorists, they will be targetted and killed. There is just no mercy in the Muslim countries. The people who know to do right are too afraid to stand up cause they will be killed. And so the evil is able to succeed.

[EVILxxx]

Hezbollah has been ordered to disarm in the past by the UN. I understand that Hezbollah speaks for a segment of Lebanon (I briefly mentioned this), but I'm sure Hitler handed out candy to kids too.

Hezbollah crossed the Isreali border to capture the Isreali Corporal that started this whole mess. A recognized segment of an official governmental body in Lebanon invades another country and that is not cause for decisive military action?
Isreal wouldn't be hard pressed to justify military action against all of Lebanon seeing as Hezbollah is an official part of it, but they understand it is not all black and white.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Lynn7
If Lebanon doens't like having bombs dropped on them they should kick out the terrorists.

That was Bin Laden's excuse for 9/11. America is a democracy, ergo those who vote for leaders who make life miserable for Middle Eastern folk are fair target.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I don't agree with the thought that one man's terrorist is anotehr man's freedom fighter. There is right and there is wrong.

It is time to act decisively against these terrorists. If Lebanon doens't like having bombs dropped on them they should kick out the terrorists.

There is just no mercy in the Muslim countries.


To the first point:

Your ideas of 'right' and 'wrong' are not the universal...please try and keep that in mind...do you think the innocent Iraquis being killed/raped by overzealous US troops consider us 'freedom fighters'?

To the second:

Yeah, and if we didn't like having our buildiings blown up, we should have captured and/or killed the man responsible...if they're still finding terrorist cells in Florida and New York, then it must not be that easy to just 'kick out the terrorists'...especially if we're supposed to be the biggest, baddest country in the world and they're still right under our noses.

To the third:

Because obviously all Muslims are snarling, heartless animals capable of total destruction? Mindsets like that are the reasons countries go around blowing each other's people up...



~darchangel~

[Vong]

I don't agree with the thought that one man's terrorist is anotehr man's freedom fighter. There is right and there is wrong.

Different world views contribute to what people see as right and wrong. As darchangel put it, they are not universal, they are subjective. Their meanings have changed as people's perceptions of society has changed. But as one society changes, the other can slack. Ideologies, religions, economies and politics greatly affect their meanings as well.

Israel has given up a great deal in the effort to find peace and they are mocked, ridiculed and threatened with extermination.

They have also done much to earn a bad reputation for the use of violence. Their Zionist lifestyle is giving them false hopes in attempting to seclude themselves from their Arab neighbours. The have spent the greater part of their history trying to put their name on the soil, when its obvious they are not alone in the area. Could it be that the terrorism being committed today in the region began when the Jewish people pushed themselves into the area? Just a thought maybe...

[Lynn7]

The Jews have been violated for thousands of years. There is right and wrong.What Hezzbollah did was wrong and it WAS an act of war. Iran has been talking about wiping out Israel in recent months and it is thought that Iran and Syria is behind this. Iran is in the process of developing nuclear weapons as we speak. Now is the time to act. We can't act but now Israel has the perfect opportunity to act. The Lebanese don't want Hezzbollah and the terrorists in their country- they want their country back the way it used to be. I'm sure if Israel can kick these people out then Lebanon will be the better for it.

I dont' think all Mulsims are bad people. Of course there are many and maybe most are good people. In fact almost all those people in these countries are coerced into being Muslim. If one of them is practicing Christianity they are persecuted and can be even killed. There is no freedom of choice in religion over there.Think about how you guys will feel if the Muslim extremist groups are able to dominate the world-You will all be forced to be practicing Muslims too, and they do not practice Democracy as you well know. Look at what happened under Taliban control. That will be our lives too.

In the Bible it speaks of a time when we will all be forced to take on the mark of the beast and anyone who does not have this mark will not be able to buy or sell. The Christian God has forbidden us to take on this mark.We are expected to go to our deaths, just like the early Christains were fed to lions, burned at the stake or crucified in sticking to the Christian beleifs. I think the reason is becoming clear. The US is not going to stay in control and there will come a power who will force the "mark of th beast'. It will be someone in charge who hates Christians. It could be an atheist or it could be a Muslim. We won't know until the time gets nearer but some of the biblical prophecies could be starting to happen. The "end times" events (as they are known in the Christian community) are all going to take place in the Middle East, particularly in Isreal.

This is an excerpt from Revelation in the Bible- from REvelation 20:4

"I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

New International Version

It's funny, but before when i read this passage I thought "Beheadings! Who the heck beheads anymore? That is an archaic way of execution"- yet here we are again with the Bible getting prophecy 100% right.

[electriclite]

Originally posted by EVILxxx
Hezbollah has been ordered to disarm in the past by the UN. I understand that Hezbollah speaks for a segment of Lebanon (I briefly mentioned this), but I'm sure Hitler handed out candy to kids too.

Hezbollah crossed the Isreali border to capture the Isreali Corporal that started this whole mess. A recognized segment of an official governmental body in Lebanon invades another country and that is not cause for decisive military action?
Isreal wouldn't be hard pressed to justify military action against all of Lebanon seeing as Hezbollah is an official part of it, but they understand it is not all black and white.

But seeing as how Hezbollah is a group with both a military and civilian arm, and obvious terrorist ties, it is very possible that the group could have splintered and would have a more overzealous group going out and trying to spark a chaotic war with Israel to inspire other Arabic countries to finally try and wipe Israel off the map. Not to mention starting a third world war by dragging allies of the surrounding countries into the fight.

The IRA tried to pull a stunt like this about 200 years ago. Living in the NY, they'd cross the border and invade Canada trying to incite another war between the USA and Great Britain. Then the British hold on Ireland would be weakened and the people there could easily rise up and win the independence of the country.

Its not that far off to believe that a scenario like this could be occuring as we speak.

[Monotreme]

First of all, a few things must be made clear about Hezbollah and the current attacks on it:

Hezbollah indeed has a military arm and a civillian arm. As with many other terrorist organizations in the region, using funds from rich Arab countries willing to donate their oil money to a "just cause", organizations such as Hamas and Hizballah are able to craft for themselves a civillian hold of the countries they sit in by funding and running schools, hospitals, and other such public services. Parallel to these patriotic actions, these organizations run religious fundamentalist terrorist organizations whose goal is missionary: The eventual conversion of the entire world to Islam. This is commonly referred to as the "middle eastern paradox".

It must be made clear that Israel's goals are not to destroy the Hezbollah as an organization. On the contrary - every Israeli official, governmental and military, has stated time and time again that the goal is not the annihilation fo the Hezbollah, but rather, the disarming of the organization, the destruction of its terrorist regimes and militia, and the limiting of the organization exclusively to a civillian/political organization. Hezbollah hospitals and schools have NOT been bombed, only military, communicative and administrative targets. Hezbollah's air, land and sea routes, all of which allow it access to Syria and via Syria to Iran, have been blocked off simply to prevent the arrival of supplies. The final goal: elimination of the Hezbollah threat on Israel in Southern Lebanon. Parallel to these military actions and partially as a result of them, Israel's goal is to convince the international community into applying pressure onto Syria to apply pressure on Hezbollah to disarm. In addition, international pressure must be applied to the Lebanese government to take an innitiative and do something about Hezbollah internally - they are more than capable of doing so. Hopefully, this international pressure will soon be put to work and Israel will be able to cease the offensive.

The second goal mentioned is correct - the eventual retrieval of the captured soldiers, as any good democratic country would do - no man is left behind.

But the third goal mentioned in the previous posts isn't entirely accurate. It was mentioned that Israel's goal is to "punish" the Lebanese government. This is not accurate - the goal is to apply pressure to the Lebanese government to cease with their apathy towards the Hezbollah and take actions towards disarmament of the military branch of Hezbollah. Here's the thing - after Israel retreated from Lebanon in 2000, the Lebanese government was instructed to disarm the Hezbollah and to put Lebanese military presence in Southern Lebanon. Instead, the government struck a sort of un-written deal, a status quo, with the Hezbollah: The Hezbollah demanded that Lebanon allow them freedom of operation in Southern Lebanon and that Lebanon will not stop Hezbollah attacks on Israel. In return, Hezbollah will lead the Shi'ite minority's struggle in Lebanon and also build infrastructure, schools, hospitals, and other public services. Instead of taking a stand and insisting that the military arm of Hezbollah be disbanded, the Lebanese government conveniently gave in to Hezbollah's requests, and the status quo remained until these recent attacks. The Lebanese government explained that they had no idea about Hezbollah's plans or intentions, nor did they have anything to do with their initiative - this is true, but the problem here is that the Lebanese government indirectly supported the organization by not taking any actions to prevent their military armament and presence in Southern Lebanon.

The excuse that the Lebanese government was powerless against Hezbollah is null and void - firstly, observe our other neighbours, Egypt and Jordan. Both countries keep military presence along the borders with Israel, and any attempts at uprisings or any hint of terrorist activity is quickly quelled by the military. Also note that by insisting, the Lebanese government managed to bring to the Syrian military's retreat from the country. These signs and more quite clearly point to the fact that, had the Lebanese government INSISTED, the Hezbollah terrorist and military branches could have easily been disbanded and Lebanese army presence could have been installed in South Lebanon. Now, because that Lebanon decided to turn a blind eye to Hezbollah's actions in the South, Hezbollah managed to build up quite an arsenal and gain so much power via their Syrian and Iranian allies that they have spun out of control.

Also, don't get me started on our "Zionist" lifestyle that you mentioned, Vong. The Arabs living in Israel got their fair share of chances to get their own country. In 1947 the UN proposed a division of Palestine that gave the Arabs MORE percentage of the land than the Jews - and they refused. In 1967 when the West Bank and Gaza were conquered, the Palestinians were offered their own country - AGAIN - within these borders, and once again they refused, instead insisting that the whole area belongs to them. Well, I'm sorry, but I have a news flash - the Jewish people live here now, and there's nothing they can do about it but turn back time and force us to pick another place in which to make our country. But fact of the matter is that we chose here, and instead of accepting us as neighbours and understanding our plight, the Palestinians persisted and insisted - up until today - what has long become a lost cause.

Also, don't think that the Palestinians were refused privileges to return to their lands - after the war of independence in 1948, they were offered a chance to return to their homes. Most of them refused, instead insisting that they wouldn't rest until the Jewish presence from the area is eliminated. A highly hostile and unjustified cause if I do say so myself, but many Palestinians wisely chose to return to Haifa, Jaffa, Aco, and the various Arab villages scattered around the country - today, 1 million Israeli citizens are Arabs, and they are all living in prosperity with all the options of a free, democratic regime wide open to them, while their cousins are still living in harsh conditions, poverty and war-stricken lifestiles in refugee camps under a totalitarian, terrorist-headed regime in the Palestinian territories.

But, as I mentioned before, this crisis in Lebanon has nothing to do with the plight of the Palestinians. This event is simply one more link in a chain of events currently unfolding in the world that has entirely to do with Iran. One reason for the Hezbollah attacks (initiated by Iran) is to at least partially ease military pressure on Hamas in the Gaza Strip. It is also no coincidence that these attacks happened to coincide with the annual G8 summit - It is highly likely that Iran innitiated this attack on Israel via Hizballah in order to divert attention away from the Iranian nuclear crisis and onto this conflict in Lebanon instead. Hezbollah and their supporters in Syria are merely puppets in Iran's grand master plan, and while Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's long-term goals are currently unknown, it is pretty clear that something must be done about him and his country, and FAST.

My projections for the future, or better yet, my hopes: Firstly, I hope that Israel won't turn this into a "whose prick is bigger" contest, and that my country will cease the attacks the moment an international agreement can be reached with Hezbollah, Syria and Lebanon. Secondly, I sincerely hope that Israel won't make the mistake of attacking Hezbollah targets in Syria. Hezbollah are trivial for Iran, but an attack on Syria would immediately be deciphered as an attack on Iran, and the consequences of that... oh I don't even want to imagine. Hopefully this whole conflict will end in a matter of weeks. I give it two, tops - save for their allies in Syria and Iran, Hezbollah stand alone on this matter in the Arab community, with every Arab country except for Syria and Iran condemning Hezbollah. Hopefully, this pressure - including that from within the Arab community - will cause Hezbollah to buckle quickly. But as things stand right now, Hezbollah refuse to participate in any diplomatic procedures, and so Israel unfortunately will have to continue physically destroying Hezbollah's military infrastructure.

EDIT: another little note about Lebanon: while Hezbollah have popular support from the Shi'ite Muslim population of the country, the Christian and Druze population of Lebanon, which also take up quite a hefty percentage, certainly don't need Hezbollah, nor do they particularly benefit from them. It is simply a marriage of convenience that has gone on long enough.

[Monotreme]

So, I spent the morning in a bomb shelter as my city, Haifa, was hit by four rounds of missiles launched by Hezbollah throughout the morning. They all hit in areas further North from where I am, but there were 8 casualties and 40 injured, 4 in critical condition, as a result of these attacks. Haifa is the third largest city in Israel with a population of over a quarter million. This really is the last straw, and hopefully, retribution will be swift and Hezbollah's rocket launching brigades will be neutralized.

On the diplomatic plane, the Italian prime minister has decided to break the ice and initiate talks of a ceasefire with the Lebanese government, what all other Western countries, including the United States, have refused to do up until now. Hopefully these diplomatic developments will get the Lebanese government, namely the Christians and Suni Muslims within it, to initiate actions of restraint against Hezbollah. I simply hope that no more missile attacks will be launched on Haifa. I was scared shitless this morning. The Hezbollah and their allies claim these are "acts of defense". But how exactly is firing missiles targeting civillians an "act of defense"? It seems more like an act of pathetic cowardice to me.

[Lynn7]

Gee, I really feel for you- I hope you are Ok and this will stop soon. I think I heard on the news that the Lebanese are going to be trying to send troops to get Hezbollah out of there. I hope I heard right. I also heard that those missiles that the Hezzbollah are sending are not military weapons but weapons of terrorism since they cannot be aimed and are headed at civilain targets.

I know the US is supporting Isreal totally but if we are not the ones stepping forward like Italy it is only because of the politcal problems our country is involved in in Iraq. That is a precarious situation over there and this all has to be handled carefully I'm sure. I bet that Italy is doing this not so much on its own but as a strategic move in concert with the US. We all have to stand together against all of these terrorist groups. It really is a world war at this point. I agree with you about the ultmate goal is to create an entire Islamic world (or as the Bible predicts, a one world government ultimately).

[electriclite]

I'm sitting in my aunt's apartment and as of now she hasn't heard from her cousins in Lebanon since last night. She video conferenced with them last night and could hear the bombs going off in the distance. The bombs were going off about every 15 minutes. My aunt was crying this morning when she heard that there ahd been bombings in Journieh, which is a section in Beirut.

Monotreme, I'm really fucking sorry for what you're going through and I hope to hell you and everyone you know gets out of this allright. At this point it has become a pissing contest between both sides, and someone needs to come in with a crowbar and break this shit up.

[Criminal Rock]

You know what? ... just show em’ some love, I’m sure they’ll stop.

[Scorpio24]

Yeah I'd like to add my voice to the others in hoping you get through this ok Monotreme. Hopefully something will happen to end it soon.

[Monotreme]

Current assessments are that these are final spasms of Hezbollah. Southern Lebanon has become a very dangerous place to be in, so rocket launching is becoming more and more risky. The UN, the EU, the countries participating in the G8 summit, and even the Arab countries, lead by Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia are all applying pretty intense international pressure on Lebanon and Hezbollah, so hopefully this whole ordeal will be over in a matter of days.

Meanwhile, Haifa was struck with four more rounds of missiles this afternoon. One rocket hit a residential house but luckily the residents were in the bomb shelter downstairs and got out with mild injuries and no casualties. The house was torn apart, though. As I said, hopefully this whole thing will be over in a matter of days and things will go back to normal around here. I hope the rehabilitation of Lebanon will be swift - damage in Israel to some houses is minimal, but Lebanon was blasted pretty hard, and we're talking upwards of $5 Billion worth of damage to Beirut alone. It was most unfortunate that the situation reached a point when the country's infrastructure had to be struck in order to sever Hezbollah and seclude them. Hopefully the Lebanese government will finally agree to work with Israel and initiate Lebanese army presence in Southern Lebanon, to prevent and block any further military actions from Hezbollah. Even Iran, Hezbollah's parental unit, have announced that the time may have come to discuss a cease-fire and the return of the captured Israeli soldiers.

[Lynn7]

Here it comes....

Iran's Hizbollah says ready to attack US, Israel
Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:09pm ET


TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's Hizbollah, which claims links to the Lebanese group of the same name, said on Tuesday it stood ready to attack Israeli and U.S. interests worldwide.

"We have 2,000 volunteers who have registered since last year," said Iranian Hizbollah's spokesman Mojtaba Bigdeli, speaking by telephone from the central seminary city of Qom.

"They have been trained and they can become fully armed. We are ready to dispatch them to every corner of the world to jeopardise Israel and America's interests. We are only waiting for the Supreme Leader's green light to take action. If America wants to ignite World War Three ... we welcome it," he said.

Iranian religious organisations have made great public show of recruiting volunteers for "martyrdom-seeking operations" in recent years, usually threatening U.S. interests in case of any attack against the Islamic Republic's nuclear programme.

But there is no record of an Iranian volunteer from these recruitment campaigns taking part in an attack.

Iran's Hizbollah (Party of God) says it is spiritually bound to Shi'ite Muslim guerrillas in Lebanon but its command structure and funding are unclear.

Despite Iranian Hizbollah's insistence that it takes orders from Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, government ministries say Hizbollah does not implement official policy. Iran's government has said it hopes for a diplomatic solution to the Israeli offensive in Lebanon.

While Iran did fund and support Lebanese Hizbollah during the 1980s, Tehran says it has not contributed troops or weapons in the latest violence. Israel says Iranian armaments have been fired against it.

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by Lynn7
While Iran did fund and support Lebanese Hizbollah during the 1980s, Tehran says it has not contributed troops or weapons in the latest violence. Israel says Iranian armaments have been fired against it.
Bull shite, man. This is just one of their many lies. Firstly, the Hezbollah used advanced missiles whose source is known to be Iran on Israel, meaning that these missiles were given to them much after the 1980's. Secondly, where else does Hezbollah gets its impressively large funding from? Thirdly, how else can Iran's unprecedented support of Hezbollah, while all the other Arab countries condemn it, be explained? No, I think the situation here is pretty clear. Hezbollah is just one of Iran's advocates around the world, and this is just the beginning of Iran's quest to destroy democracy and the western world as we know it. Hopefully, the world will be alarmed by the crisis between Israel and Lebanon and finally take some productive action against Iran, who have been threatening to pull shit like this ever since Mahmoud Ahmadinejad rose to power in mid-2005. Syria, and president Bashar al-Assad in particular, have their lips stuck so far up Ahmadinejad's ass that they are powerless to oppose Iran's aggression.

[Lynn7]

People are so afraid to offend the terrorists because they beleive that if they are not against the terrorists then they will not be targetted by them. The terrorists laugh at weakness like this. They may hate Israel but they respect Israel as a power. The world may laugh at Bush but the terrorists have felt the sting of the US operations expeically since many of them have died. We can't wait around and make nice with these guys. It has been shown that they will even behead children. How evil is that?

[Vong]

Just thought I'd post a cartoon that sums up everything nicely in the Middle East.

http://ca.geocities.com/jgilston@rogers.com/060725_moudakis_450.jpg

[Criminal Rock]

http://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

Nice generalization.

[Thrizzle]

And some point the shit is going to hit the fan in the middle east because no matter how much we'd like to believe in the contrary, most countries in the middle east would love to see Israel wiped off the face of the earth.

And as always, i'll be supporting the side that doesnt use woman and children as human shields.

[Vong]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
http://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

Nice generalization.

Nice use of repitition.

[Criminal Rock]

What, the multiple thumbs down in my LAST post? Or the Multiple thumbs down in my last FEW posts?

Either way, at least it works.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
And some point the shit is going to hit the fan in the middle east


No offense, bbbuuuttttt....you don't think the shit has hit the fan already?



There's some serious shit getting fucked up over there.

[Thrizzle]

I meant an open war between Christians/Jews and Muslims.