Army propaganda targets 9 - 14 year olds

[Joshmo]

Army trying to get pre teens interested in their awesome arsenal (http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boston.com%2F news%2Fnation%2Fwashington%2Farticles%2F2006%2F07% 2F03%2Fsome_see_army_pitch_in_preteen_magazine%2F)

Link doesnt work, I know..I tried to delete post, it wont allow me to

Story is at www.rawstory.com

[TheDeadWalk]

"Knowing is half the battle."

I couldn't find your article, but I do agree that some of it does target children. Hell, my brother's recruiter tried to talk me into joining the army when I was 13 when I picked up the phone and told him my brother wasn't home.

"When do you graduate?"

"Are you thinking about your future?"



In all seriousness though, this is better than some third-world countries that will just bust into your home and kidnap your 9-14 year old child and force them into the military.

[Joshmo]

This is true - and I do believe in the U.S having a strong military - I am simply against the one sided spin and half truth-like the military does when recruiting.

[The Postmaster General]

Beavis and Butthead did an episode on this topic.

[echo_bravo]

No one is pointing a gun at your head. People join on their own will.

[Joshmo]

We're not talking about anyone putting a gun to their heads - thats not the topic... and its more like POOR and DISIEFRANCHISED people join the Army because they are the ones targeted and sold a one sided bill of goods. True - they are responsible for knowing the pros and cons, but thats why the Army targets the uneducated - they'll swallow the kool aid faster because they think their Gov has their best interests at heart....I'd like to see Army recruiters in the parking lots of Neiman Marcus instead of Walmart - and see them recruit full time at Yale like the do at any school across the nation named after Martin Luther King

[Criminal Rock]

This whole "military targeting poor, uneducated people" argument is getting really old...

I’ve met so many people and I have plenty of friends in the Marines, the Navy, the National Guard, and the Air force who aren’t uneducated, or poor by any means. Military recruiters go to schools regardless of how smart the schools are.

Stop with the poop.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Joshmo
We're not talking about anyone putting a gun to their heads - thats not the topic... and its more like POOR and DISIEFRANCHISED people join the Army because they are the ones targeted and sold a one sided bill of goods. True - they are responsible for knowing the pros and cons, but thats why the Army targets the uneducated - they'll swallow the kool aid faster because they think their Gov has their best interests at heart....I'd like to see Army recruiters in the parking lots of Neiman Marcus instead of Walmart - and see them recruit full time at Yale like the do at any school across the nation named after Martin Luther King


Stereotype much?

The Army does recruit at Yale. There is even an ROTC program at Yale. Those poor disenfranchised people, eh?

[Jon Lyrik]

Well, to be fair, there is a section tucked in the NCLB Act that requires that public secondary schools must let in recruiters, I believe.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Jon Lyrik
Well, to be fair, there is a section tucked in the NCLB Act that requires that public secondary schools must let in recruiters, I believe.

That's messed up.

I wouldn't get why they'd need to have something like that just for the fact that public schools have always let in recruiters, as far as I know. I've never talked to anyone who didn't have a recruiter come in during HS.

I just looked up the law, and the actually what the provision allows is for military recruiters to have access to students personal info (name, address, phone number)

That's even more messed up.

From what I've gathered talking with old HS friends, the students who perform exceptionally and are in lots of programs get recruited doubly hard. One person told me they showed up to their door at 7am for a few weeks making various offers.

[Criminal Rock]

Your wrong bubba, we only want idiots in our military.

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
From what I've gathered talking with old HS friends, the students who perform exceptionally and are in lots of programs get recruited doubly hard. One person told me they showed up to their door at 7am for a few weeks making various offers.

It's easy to get mediocre-minded dullards in to be cannon fodder for IEDs, but getting the smart ones in is difficult.

[someguy]

The army does tend to go towards the poorer and uneducated though in their recruiting. Some of these people find that it's more mandatory to join the army so they can at least get out of the situation they're in, and the richer people have the option to not do it because they have more possibilities in front of them. Army recruiters tend to have some sort of quota, so they're going to ask rich and poor anyways since they need people.

I'm trying to act PC about it but I can't. I think that the army people will ask anyone to join, but if you compare the amount of people who are below middle class with the upper class there will be a lot more in the former.

[Vong]

Get 'em while they're young.

[bigred760]

I've got no problem with the military recruiting or advertising to youngsters. There was an ROTC program at my high school - voluntary of course. There was also a corp of cadets at the university I went to also. The military is a way of paying for college, earning a living, and traveling. Sure we're in wartime now so the traveling aspect isn't so hot, but in peace time - it's a plus.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Vong
Get 'em while they're young.


Now I know why Michael Jackson wears those military-styled outfits.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Most of the people I went to high school with who enlisted in the military joined because they wanted an excuse for not doing most of their work. Now I know this sounds ridiculous, but it's true. Everytime there would be someone in my class not doing their work, and somebody asked why, that person would always respond by saying that they were enlisting in the military so doing all that classwork was pointless and blah blah blah. Damn, it's amazing how naive some people are.

[EVILxxx]

They're going to have a pretty hard time with land navigation on 8 digit grid maps if they weren't paying attention in math.

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by bigred760
The military is a way of paying for college, earning a living, and traveling.

Oh god...

[Criminal Rock]

Despite the fact that you probably don't agree with the military or what they stand for, doesn’t make his statement “outrageous” or ”invalid” by any means. People join the military for these reasons all the time.

[EVILxxx]

Not to mention the fact that the military is actually a good job. Free/cheap housing, free/cheap food, and it's easy to advance your position. Plus 30 days off and holidays a year (provided you're not in combat).

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
Despite the fact that you probably don't agree with the military or what they stand for, doesn’t make his statement “outrageous” or ”invalid” by any means. People join the military for these reasons all the time.

The government constantly fucks over veterans is all I'm saying.

And I'm not necessarily against the Army. Targeting 12-year-olds, yes. But in a world like this, defense is necessary, though rarely utilized properly.

[The Postmaster General]

I don't have a problem with the military, maybe their recruiting tactics, but not the military as a whole. There's lots of good people in the military. LOTS.

The problem is the politicians who use from time-to-time misuse them. This happens in all jobs, and not just the military. I'm not some ellitist who is going say I'm better than someone because I have this job and they have that job. People do things for their own reasons, and that should be respected. As long as no one is raping and pillaging, it's all good.

Even though the politicians are the bosses of the troops in a sense, I still know that there are troops who are brighter than politicians. Just like it wouldn't be odd to find a kid at McDonald's who knows his shit more than the manager. It's a job, not a person.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by someguy
The army does tend to go towards the poorer and uneducated though in their recruiting. Some of these people find that it's more mandatory to join the army so they can at least get out of the situation they're in, and the richer people have the option to not do it because they have more possibilities in front of them. Army recruiters tend to have some sort of quota, so they're going to ask rich and poor anyways since they need people.

I'm trying to act PC about it but I can't. I think that the army people will ask anyone to join, but if you compare the amount of people who are below middle class with the upper class there will be a lot more in the former.

The military is a great means of advancement in life. They teach discipline and pride and many employers drool over the chance to be able to hire someone who has been in the military. I have known a few military men and I have to say I really admire them in their lives as civilians. They usually carry themselves in a way regular people do not.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Lynn7
The military is a great means of advancement in life. They teach discipline and pride and many employers drool over the chance to be able to hire someone who has been in the military. I have known a few military men and I have to say I really admire them in their lives as civilians. They usually carry themselves in a way regular people do not.

You mean the ones that are still alive and not mentally damaged as a result of seeing the horror of war, I'm guessing?



~darchangel~

[bigred760]

Originally posted by darchangel
You mean the ones that are still alive and not mentally damaged as a result of seeing the horror of war, I'm guessing?


That's a little unfair, isn't it? We haven't always been at war, and the military does offer a lot of advantages to those who have served.

Sure, war is hell, and that kind of screws up the curve. But not all of them get screwed up.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by bigred760
That's a little unfair, isn't it? We haven't always been at war, and the military does offer a lot of advantages to those who have served.

Sure, war is hell, and that kind of screws up the curve. But not all of them get screwed up.


I haven't met a war vet yet who wasn't somehow darker and different than they were when they left for war.

I know a guy who had to leave his eight months pregnant girlfriend to go to Iraq back in '03...his kid's three years old and he still has never seen her in person. He just wanted to be in the National Guard so he could pay for grad school, and now he's watching people die every single day...I suppose that makes you grateful for what you have when you get home, but at the same time, lots of vets suffer from depression and social disorders when they come back from war for a reason.

I don't think getting your college paid for and getting a good job are worth your sanity and your ability to ever have peacful sleep again.


~darchangel~

[Criminal Rock]

oh my god...

[AWP82]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
oh my god...

What? :confused:

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by darchangel
I haven't met a war vet yet who wasn't somehow darker and different than they were when they left for war.

I know a guy who had to leave his eight months pregnant girlfriend to go to Iraq back in '03...his kid's three years old and he still has never seen her in person. He just wanted to be in the National Guard so he could pay for grad school, and now he's watching people die every single day...I suppose that makes you grateful for what you have when you get home, but at the same time, lots of vets suffer from depression and social disorders when they come back from war for a reason.

I don't think getting your college paid for and getting a good job are worth your sanity and your ability to ever have peacful sleep again.


~darchangel~

As I've said before, people should never sign up for the military just for the perks. It is a calling and people need to know that they could be called up for war and they could die. People die even while they are training. It is a brutal buisness. But every country has a military and many countries use their military. It is not set up to be precollege camp. Soldiers learn to kill. Soldiers learn they may be killed.

Police and Fire men are the same- they see awful things. They may kill and they may be killed. They see accident victims in cars splashed all over the windshilds of cars or fire victims burnt to crisps in their houses. The world is not a pretty place but we need some people willing to take on the challenge. I'm sure these people are never the same again either. It has been my experience that most soldiers I have known have a calling to go. It is something they feel driven to do. Of course in the draft it is much different because everyone can be called up, like it or not. If we get invloved in North Korea we could see a draft again.

Militaries have always been a part of the world. Many people don't get this. If we didn't have these people fighting for us we would have been invaded long ago and then our new leaders would force us to fight in the military. It cannot be escaped.

[The Postmaster General]

Lynn, does Camila Paglia have an opinion on people injured or killed in war?

[Lynn7]

She's very liberal so I'm sure she does and that you would like her.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Lynn7
She's very liberal so I'm sure she does and that you would like her.


What does her being Liberal have to do with anything? I'm right-leaning on some issues, and left-leaning on others.

Labels are just a way of not having to think. That's why you see the "Do Not Eat" label on silica packages.

[TheDeadWalk]

It is somewhat a taboo topic amongst many older citizens, but it seems to be favored that the younger the soldier, the better. Therefore they have less of a chance of already being married, had children, etc. At young, dumb, and full of cum they are somewhat our "expendable citizens who haven't left a mark on the country, yet".

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Lynn7
She's very liberal so I'm sure she does and that you would like her

Is that the same reason you like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter?



Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
What does her being Liberal have to do with anything? I'm right-leaning on some issues, and left-leaning on others.

Labels are just a way of not having to think. That's why you see the "Do Not Eat" label on silica packages.


Mmmmm.....delicious liberals.....


:D



~darchangel~

[Criminal Rock]

Originally posted by AWP82
What? :confused:

Originally posted by darchangel
I haven't met a war vet yet who wasn't somehow darker and different than they were when they left for war.

:rolleyes:

Understand now?

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
:rolleyes:

Understand now?


Sorry that my sympathy for other human beings is so ludicrous to you...



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:




~darchangel~

[Criminal Rock]

Sorry, but i find that statement more ridiculous then sympathetic...

[Tuukka]

Hold on... Tell me if I'm wrong, but joining the army means that you are AGREEING TO SACRIFICE YOUR LIFE IN BATTLE.

I'm sorry, but it sounds pretty fucked up to me that people are supporting the idea that KIDS should be allowed to be persuaded to join the army.

If they are 18 years old, I have no problem with this.

But since it's not OK to persuade kids to use alcohol or to smoke cigarettes, or to drive a car, I don't think it's OK to persuade them to join army and put their lives in the line either.

Let kids be kids. When they are of age and can drink, drive, smoke and fuck legally, then you can persuade them to join the army as well.

[Criminal Rock]

Not to say you're wrong or anything like that, because your not... but don’t cigarette companies and alcohol companies do the exact same thing, and don’t they kill more people a year?

[The Postmaster General]

He never said it was right, just that the standards aren't placed equally. We get up in arms about tobacco and alcohol companies doing it, but when it's the army - Oh, that's the army. It's different.

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
Not to say you're wrong or anything like that, because your not... but don’t cigarette companies and alcohol companies do the exact same thing, and don’t they kill more people a year?

What Bubba said above.

They don't allow cigarette and alcohol companies to advertise their stuff in schools. Why a double-standard for army?

If anything, I feel that 16 years should be the minimum. After that people enter high school and since army is also an occupational choice, it can be good that they are informed at that point.

But not for kids younger than that.

[TheDeadWalk]

Tuukka's comments today were kind of interesting. Mainly because I'm reminded once again that at age 18 you can join the military and be killed, yet are not legally allowed to drink alcohol.

If you aren't considered a "full citizen", then why should you be considered appropriate to die for it?

[Criminal Rock]

Drinking and smoking is a privilege, and working in the military is a job. That’s the difference, and that’s why they’re allowed to visit schools or whatever.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
Drinking and smoking is a privilege, and working in the military is a job. That’s the difference, and that’s why they’re allowed to visit schools or whatever.

I'll buy that for a dollar.

[AWP82]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
Drinking and smoking is a privilege, and working in the military is a job. That’s the difference, and that’s why they’re allowed to visit schools or whatever.

Are you saying you see it as some sort of "career day" type of thing?

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
Drinking and smoking is a privilege, and working in the military is a job. That’s the difference, and that’s why they’re allowed to visit schools or whatever.

But it's a job that can get you killed. Especially in the time of war. It's a job which is meant to be an act of violence. Of killing.

I don't think that one should persuade kids to take part in violence, or to risk their lives. There are reasons why we protect our kids from drinking, smoking, sex, and violence.

So I don't think it's comparable to normal jobs. Most definitely not.

You wouldn't be comfortable, if kids would be persuaded in schools to become sex workers, would you? Then why would it be unaccetable to persuade them to work in a sex profession, yet it would be accetable to persuade them to work in a profession of death and violence?

Kids are not going to get a job at the army at the age of 9-14. So why can't the military wait until they are at least 16 before they start recruiting them? They should.

[The Postmaster General]

I'm not sure exactly what Joshmo was posting - but I think it has to do with how they market the Army. They probably use tactics appealing to the 9 - 14 y/o demographic.

I wasn't joking when I said Beavis & Butthead did an episode about it. They went into a recruiters office, and he had all these different videos with labels on them that corresponded to different types of people. The one he pulled for Beavis and Butthead said "No Future"

[shoe1985]

I feel that the Army should not be allowed to target children under the age of 16. It is a good thing to start at 16 an older. They should meet with them and tell them about the army, the good and bad. I think many people see it as a way to get a free ride to school or a job with no actual war. Many people didn't think a war with Iraq was going to happen and many people joined just hoping for a better future and end up dying.

I know right now recruiting numbers are down badly and the Army and the other arm forces are using many tactics to try and persuade people to join.

I was called by a recruiter and we talked for about 10 minutes and when I mentioned I had ashtma and allergies, he was ready to hang up. He was like I am sorry we can't allow you to come in. I didn't care too much because I had no plans to join the army. I know what could happen if we were to go to war.

I was also approached by a recruiter at a store. I was like I am not interested and walked away.

[The Postmaster General]

When I was at the State Fair a couple years back, I could see a recruiter eyeing me from the Army tent so I started mumbling angrily to myself about Shriners and Masons. He turned away.

[Criminal Rock]

Originally posted by AWP82
Are you saying you see it as some sort of "career day" type of thing?

Well, it is technically a career. So yeah, I guess.

Originally posted by Tuukka
But it's a job that can get you killed. Especially in the time of war. It's a job which is meant to be an act of violence. Of killing.

There are plenty of jobs that can kill you... police officers, SWAT, Bomb squad, firefighters, underwater welding, anything construction... Why is being in the military so different and wrong?

I understand your beef with the whole thing. Your beliefs are totally valid. You don’t want kids to die, and I don’t either. But I think there are worse things we can be correcting rather then the military going to job fairs, or going to high schools and talking to kids. If people don’t want to join the military, they wont join. It isn’t that complicated, they aren’t that stupid. I think people are smart enough to make there own decisions.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
If people don’t want to join the military, they wont join. It isn’t that complicated, they aren’t that stupid. I think people are smart enough to make there own decisions.


By that logic, then it shouldn't be a problem to have cigarette ads on television, since people know smoking kills you, and should be smart enough to not do it.




~darchangel~

[Criminal Rock]

The military isn't responcible for 4.5 million deaths a year though... i mean, there's a HUGE difference between the two.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
The military isn't responcible for 4.5 million deaths a year though... i mean, there's a HUGE difference between the two.


Yeah, I guess there is a huge difference...people can quit smoking anytime they want to and not go to jail for it.



~darchangel~

[shoe1985]

I think now that I have thought about it more, everyone knows the risks of joining the army. It is their own fault if they have to go to war. It is an easier way to get where you want to go in life, but myself, it isn't worth it. I don't believe war settles anything, but cause more hatred for other people.

The army should have restrictions on who they can recruit. 16 should be the age limit.

[KcMsterpce]

Originally posted by Joshmo
We're not talking about anyone putting a gun to their heads - thats not the topic... and its more like POOR and DISIEFRANCHISED people join the Army because they are the ones targeted and sold a one sided bill of goods. True - they are responsible for knowing the pros and cons, but thats why the Army targets the uneducated - they'll swallow the kool aid faster because they think their Gov has their best interests at heart....I'd like to see Army recruiters in the parking lots of Neiman Marcus instead of Walmart - and see them recruit full time at Yale like the do at any school across the nation named after Martin Luther King

Pardon me for the early post reply, but I'm reading from beginning to end...

The problem with trying to hire upper-class, well-to-do people is that they are already RICH... they don't NEED to join the military to SURVIVE, unlike the majority of the applicants who join. They are going to most likely come from broken homes, and/or were unable to support themselves and their families, therefore look for stability and a steady income in the military. This isn't singling out everyone - I know plenty of "smart" and "rich" people who joined for other reasons altogether (great experience, looks good on a resume, awesome educational opportunities, as well as proving to the 'outside world' that you've had leadership experience at some level, as well as understand the importance of a chain of command in some way), but most won't join because they already are born into rich families and have strong financial backgrounds. What would the military have to offer them?

[shoe1985]

It is excellent on a resume. I know a teacher that got a history job because he was in the army as a general or something. Others that applied for the job had more teaching experience, but with him actually being at the places he was teaching about helped him.

It isn't a bad thing at to be in. It is a great way to turn people around that did bad in their life earlier.

[Criminal Rock]

Originally posted by darchangel
Yeah, I guess there is a huge difference...people can quit smoking anytime they want to and not go to jail for it.

good lord.

[darchangel]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
good lord.


Wait...I'll save you the trouble...


:rolleyes:

[The Postmaster General]

John Kerry.

[AWP82]

Me.

[The Postmaster General]

Really? Props.

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
There are plenty of jobs that can kill you... police officers, SWAT, Bomb squad, firefighters, underwater welding, anything construction... Why is being in the military so different and wrong?

I understand your beef with the whole thing. Your beliefs are totally valid. You don’t want kids to die, and I don’t either. But I think there are worse things we can be correcting rather then the military going to job fairs, or going to high schools and talking to kids. If people don’t want to join the military, they wont join. It isn’t that complicated, they aren’t that stupid. I think people are smart enough to make there own decisions.

In those other professions violence and death are not the INTENTION of the profession. Military is an organization created to commit acts of violence. That's the only reason it exists. It is a necessary institution, yes, but it's very much different when compared to the rest of your examples.

We try to protect kids from violence - Why wouldn't we do that when it comes to military? Equally we try to protect kids from sex, and commercial sex in particular, and wouldn't appreciate if kids would be persuaded to choose sex job as their future profession.

I agree that people in general are not stupid. But KIDS are stupid, and easily persuaded. That's why we protect them from things that are allowed for adults.

I don't have any problem with military going to job fairs or high schools. Like I said, I think people 16 year or older can be persuaded to join the military - I don't consider them to be kids anymore.

[KcMsterpce]

It's true that the main reason the military should exist for a country is to defend one's homeland (no opening cans in reference to the world police of America). Thing is, the mass majority of military personnel never even pick up a gun in the Air Force and Navy. If they DO, they aren't likely to be firing it. The Army and Marines are a different story, but they're trained for different tasks, just as all the dozens and dozens of jobs available to anyone in the military changes the priorities of their training.
Not all military people are trained to kill, and most haven't even been IN a battle-type situation. So, to say that people who go in the military are fucked up in some way psychologically is a massive exageration which ultimately, is erroneous. The small percentage who DO get fucked up are the ones that get the attention, not just in the media but with friends and family, and in the movies. All the normal people are bypassed, because who wants to hear about NORMAL soldiers? That's really boring and uneventful.

[Criminal Rock]

^^exactly... the military is basically the police, but on a larger scale... and instead of protecting cities you protect an entire nation, or even the world.

[TheDeadWalk]

I guess my whole beef isn't anti-army, nor is it young propaganda, but more of full-citizenship that should be allowed if you're able to enlist into war.

At least say, hey if you join the army then at 18 you can drink and visit tittie bars. It could even be a more swell recruiting tactic.

"Join the Marines. We're looking for a few good men...

who like the titties."

[jeo4]

In America at age 18, you are considered old enough to...

Work
Pay Taxes
Die in a war or military action
Drive a car
Graduate high school
Attend College
Go to jail
Be tried as an adult
Vote
Smoke cigarettes
View/purchase pornography


...but you're not old enough to drink alcoholic beverages.

:confused:

[bigred760]

Originally posted by jeo4
In America at age 18, you are considered old enough to...

Work
Pay Taxes
Die in a war or military action
Drive a car
Graduate high school
Attend College
Go to jail
Be tried as an adult
Vote
Smoke cigarettes
View/purchase pornography


...but you're not old enough to drink alcoholic beverages.

:confused:

Actually, you can do a lot of that before you're 18, like drive, work (and therefore pay taxes), graduate high school (I was 17 when I graduated), and be tried as an adult. I've heard of 14-15 year olds being tried as an adult.