America - Freedom to Fascism

[Vong]

Below is a trailer for a documentary being released this Friday.

This documentary will attempt to combine the hundreds of ad hoc documentaries many of us have seen detailing the countless ways the U.S. government is fucking over its citizens domestically.

Despite the section of the video that defends an American's right to bear arms, this looks like a very interesting documentary. I hope to see it, either in theatres or on video.

Google Video - 15 minute Trailer (http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=1616088001333580937&q=America+-+Freedom+to+Fascism+New+Trailer)

[BakeTheMooCow]

I saw a TV spot where the creator of this 'documentary' compared America to Nazi Germany - he lost me there. I'm really tired of these nutjobs who buy a cheap camera and some video editing software and think they're some sort of crusaders for truth. Every one of these grass-roots documentaries that I've seen makes huge leaps of logic and assumptions. It's obviously biased, so there's no chance of hearing two sides of any story. Every policy of the government is a conspiracy to rid me of my rights, I'm an idiot because I conform, rise up and fight and don't forget your tin foil hat on the way out. Spare me.

[Criminal Rock]

http://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif http://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif http://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif http://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif http://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif http://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif http://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif http://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif http://www.joblo.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

Nine thumbs down... only because i can't post ten. ;)

[JCR]

I love a good diatribe as much as the next guy, but documentaries like this NEED to have even just a little humor in them to make them palatable, and this had none.

Also not meaning to be rude or nothing, but the makers of this appear to be wildly paranoid.

[someguy]

Vong, the more I read your posts the more I envision you as an incredibly stereotypical college liberal.

I pretty much share the same sentiments on the people above about this movie.

[echo_bravo]

Silly Canadian

Seriously Vong, if you think America is such a facist nation. You havent been too many places. Ever heard of North Korea? Spend a day there and you'll be begging to live in the States.

[Squid Vicious]

Originally posted by echo_bravo
Silly Canadian

Seriously Vong, if you think America is such a facist nation. You havent been too many places. Ever heard of North Korea? Spend a day there and you'll be begging to live in the States.

Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. :rolleyes:

That said...this documentary does look pretty stupid. The whole thing about the RFID chips is just laughable. I'm against the PATRIOT Act and the NSA wire-tapping as much as the next guy, but almost everybody being interviewed comes across as a nutty conspiracy theorist who's there to concede Russo's points. And comparing Bush to Hitler? Whoa...that's, like, never been done before...how daring...

[Monotreme]

Yeah. So there are bugs in people's walls, CIA agents crawl the streets undercover, the Bush administration actually initiated 9/11 and Bin Laden is a CIA agent, JFK assassinated himself, and Nazi Germany actually won WWII, America's just covering up. Oh, and Bush's best friend is a space alien named Penelope. She's the long-lost descendant of the Roswell crash aliens, who have actually been living in a secluded room in the White House since the 60's.

Puh-leaze :rolleyes: Paranoid bull-shite. And I don't even live there.

[Thrizzle]

This video lost me when it claimed we dont have to pay taxes, and then made me laugh when it suggested the government could just simply print its own money and not take ours in order to pay down the debt.

[EVILxxx]

God there are multiple volumes too.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Wow, what a hack. How corny was that beginning......"BUT I DISCOVERED SOMETHING MORE SHOCKING AND HORRIFYING.........PEOPLE DON'T PAY INCOME TAX lk;fasflj;sal;sal;sl;fsasa;l;30ako................ .."

He pretty much sounds like a flaccid, less interesting, less talented, and much less humorous version of Michael Moore.

[Vong]

Vong, the more I read your posts the more I envision you as an incredibly stereotypical college liberal.

I'd almost take that as a compliment if it wasn't for the "stereotypical" part.

You guys are quick to judge this movie based on only 15 minutes of it, and the documentary hasn't even been released yet. You'd think with a forum full of movie-nuts you'd come to expect its residents not to judge a movie by its trailer.

It's obviously biased, so there's no chance of hearing two sides of any story.

When you do a documentary on saving the animals of the rainforests, would you put a spotlight on the industrialists side of the story for destroying the environment?

It's not always neccesary to take both sides of the story into consideration when day-by-day millions are living the opposing side without noticing it. The man is attempting to shed light on an issue no one here (I guess) seems to care about.

Investigative reporting has become the new vice in America these days. Any time someone speaks ill of the status quo, you are guaranteed a backlash of immense proportions. My only guess is that the American people just don't want to think about the "what-ifs" or "gee-whizs", and just go on with their lives totally oblivious to what might possibly be true. There are, however, people who are open minded to abstract ideas that just might possibly be true. And its documentarians like this dude who attempts to reach out to them.

You might believe that they are naive or just plain gullible to any conspiracy out there, but isn't it conceivable for everyone else to be ignorant to the possible lies they are being fed day-by-day?

Some of us choose to ignore the shadows on the cave wall.

[outsyder]

Are you kidding me? A lot of conspiracies are met with support by people who love the romanticism of the idea behind the underdog taking the system down, so to speak. After 9/11, everybody became a fucking metallurgist and an aeronautical engineer. After the Da Vinci Code, everybody became a fucking history major. After Katrina, everybody became an architect and civil engineer. And the more established sources tried to debunk theories, the more people were convinced they were simply part of the conspiracy.

The only good thing is that after a certain amount of time, people come to their senses, and start to think "Hey, just because the government says it, doesn't mean it's an outright lie!" and then they move on.

And even if it was a conpiracy, the government isn't necessarily afraid to admit it. The US government has even officially come to the conclusion that JFK was assasinated by means of at least two men in a conspiracy plot, due to the overwhelming evidence.

I don't have a problem with people trying to uncover conspiracies. People should be able to know the truth. But the moment that people are denied sensitive information, or the moment they discover that there is some loose connection between two aspects, they come to the conslusion that there must be a conpiracy, and use select evidence to fill in the holes between A and B in order to tell an entertaining story.

Although, that would make a more entertaining movie than a study of American intelligence-gathering activies and reading up on tax law.

[ilovemovies]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
This video lost me when it claimed we dont have to pay taxes

Actually, this is apparently true. My uncle knows somebody who doesn't pay taxes and doesn't get in trouble for it though I don't remember what it was all about and how he was able to get away with it. But he can't get into any legal trouble for it.

[outsyder]

I suppose that would depend on what kind of tax.

[someguy]

Originally posted by outsyder
I suppose that would depend on what kind of tax.

<insert 'captain obvious' picture here>

[quote]Originally posted by Vong
I'd almost take that as a compliment if it wasn't for the "stereotypical" part.

You guys are quick to judge this movie based on only 15 minutes of it, and the documentary hasn't even been released yet. You'd think with a forum full of movie-nuts you'd come to expect its residents not to judge a movie by its trailer.

I just imagine you as some form of Russ Lieber from the Colbert Report :)

There's a difference between a documentary and an actual movie. It's like in an English class when you're marking a story and persuasive essay. The documentary presents an opinion or thought and tries to persuade you to agree with them or question your own opinion about it. We've seen what the filmmaker presented and think that it's dumb and paranoid. Plus this is a 15 minute long trailer. Most trailers are no higher than 2 and a half minutes. So with the 15 minutes you get a feel of what the movie will be like, and it looks like the movie will be terrible. Oh yeah, the title is shitty hyperbole too.

[Thrizzle]

Originally posted by ilovemovies
Actually, this is apparently true. My uncle knows somebody who doesn't pay taxes and doesn't get in trouble for it though I don't remember what it was all about and how he was able to get away with it. But he can't get into any legal trouble for it.

Theres no income tax in Nevada and Wyoming, and as for the specific law all i know is that its in the 16th amendment of the US constitution.

[TheDeadWalk]

Irwin Schiff wrote an interesting book called "Federal Mafia" about how the government illegally imposes income taxes on people. Unfortunately, it was banned.

In the early 2000's some people where I was working at started reading it, and filling out their tax forms the way Schiff describes so that they don't have any income taxes taken out of their pay. His book basically states that it's a voluntary tax, and that you don't have to pay it, only as long as you are willing to pay the price of being hassled and threatened by the government.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0930374088/sr=8-3/qid=1154022978/ref=sr_1_3/002-4619512-4803208?ie=UTF8

[Vong]

Plus this is a 15 minute long trailer. Most trailers are no higher than 2 and a half minutes. So with the 15 minutes you get a feel of what the movie will be like, and it looks like the movie will be terrible.

It doesn't matter. It's a synopsis of a documentary longer than the trailer displaying brief glimpses of what to expect.

Oh yeah, the title is shitty hyperbole too.

Oh yeah, well your forum name is a prosaic excuse for a lack of a better alias.

[someguy]

15 minutes is much more than enough for a movie's point to get across to viewers and let them decide whether it will be good or bad. The ideas presented and the crappy title make it look like some dumb paranoia piece. That's our opinion on it.

[EVILxxx]

After rewatching the trailer I am curious VONG as to why the section on the right to bear arms disturbs you. You have made claim after claim about Americas drifting towards Facism. Wouldn't it be a good idea that if our government did revert to Facism as you claim it may that we are armed enough to stand up against them?
In previous threads you state that the people of North Korea should stand up to Kim Jong Ill "violently" if necessary. But hey pitch forks can be pretty sharp.

[jeo4]

Sorry, but this is shit.

Lately, Vong, I read your posts and I just think you're trying to find reasons to America bash. Every nation has its problems, but you are seemingly going out of your way to villify the U.S. You're entitled to your opinions, but this movie is about as overblown as they come.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by EVILxxx
After rewatching the trailer I am curious VONG as to why the section on the right to bear arms disturbs you. You have made claim after claim about Americas drifting towards Facism. Wouldn't it be a good idea that if our government did revert to Facism as you claim it may that we are armed enough to stand up against them?
In previous threads you state that the people of North Korea should stand up to Kim Jong Ill "violently" if necessary. But hey pitch forks can be pretty sharp.

You didn't asnwer you own question per say, but you had all the right ingredients.

As I've said before, if a leader can make his nation love him like a god, (such as Kim has done with North Korea), they'll be loyal to him and would likely prefer to point the weapon at their own children rather than the dear leader. There's a risk of some rogue dissident or troublemaker trying to assinate him, but that can be solve with serious bodyguarding. Plus it has the added bonus of essentially blurring the line between civilian and armyman, which would deter potential invaders even more.

[EVILxxx]

I don't quite catch your meaning Mac.
Are you refering to the other thread? If you were I must admit you had a good response, one that I didn't have an answer for. I only know that doing something is usually better than doing nothing.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by EVILxxx
I don't quite catch your meaning Mac.
Are you refering to the other thread? If you were I must admit you had a good response, one that I didn't have an answer for. I only know that doing something is usually better than doing nothing.

Yes, I openly admit that I'm dragging the thread off course. Carry on.

[Vong]

Wouldn't it be a good idea that if our government did revert to Facism as you claim it may that we are armed enough to stand up against them?

This will deviate from the threads topic so I won't go too much into this question.

I am against people owning guns, but guns aren't neccesary for a revolution.

There is a difference between personal violence and political violence. Personal would be between two or more bodies/parties and the end result would generally be limited to those people involved. Political violence stems from an act of aggression from a society's member(s) against the government or political force. I doubt the people in the U.S. would consider their weapons as a defense or tool to fight against their government, contrary to the second ammendments intention of defending the "free state". Guns are used today to defend a persons wellbeing and give the owner a false sense of security as well as to hurt/kill (depending on the intention of the owner) for personal gain of that wellbeing, or in an act of violence to hurt/kill for motives other than defense.

Keeping in mind that in times of political violence, there are other means of carrying out an act against the ruling body without the use of firearms. "Violence" doesn't neccesary constitute killing or injuring people physically. Revolutions have been won with the spoken or written word.

If the North Koreans decide to revolt against their government, they have the choice of numerous methods to topple their government. But if the North Koreans do act violently (physically with weapons) they will be doing so not for personal gain, but for the sake of the country and the personal wellbeing of everyone in the country.

Guns don't win revolutions, the will of the people do.

Lately, Vong, I read your posts and I just think you're trying to find reasons to America bash. Every nation has its problems, but you are seemingly going out of your way to villify the U.S. You're entitled to your opinions, but this movie is about as overblown as they come.

Why do you feel I'm bashing America? I'm not attacking you or any person in that country, I'm attacking the ruling body that (at least I feel) is royally fucking you all over. Just as anyone has in the past commented on the status of North Korea, Iran, Israel, Lebanon or any other country/state, I feel that the U.S. deserves some spotlight for its misfortunes. Not to "vilify" or "insult" the country, but to hopefully create some awareness to a growing problem that many seem to ignore. Now whether you feel this documentary is bogus is your opinion, but just because it looks overblown doesn't mean it won't have some sort of truth to it.

[The Postmaster General]

The title is ironic when seen in America.

[someguy]

Hey Vong, check up and see if the same thing applies in Canada.

[The Postmaster General]

I mean, would a fascist government allow for a film defaming it?

[JohnTheHenchman]

When I first read this thread I got really mad but then I got to the end and Bubba already said what I wanted to say in a similar was as me.

:)

[Vong]

Hey Vong, check up and see if the same thing applies in Canada.

It is law in Canada for people to pay income taxes each year.

Income Tax Act (http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/I-3.3/65347.html)

[Vong]

I mean, would a fascist government allow for a film defaming it?

Would the government take steps in elminating a documentary that claims it is fascist? Doing so would undoubtedly prove that it is. They obviously want people to believe that America is still a democracy, otherwise the illusion would fall apart and everyone will finally realize they are being duped.

The U.S. government probably realizes that the average citizen lacks the ability to ask questions and connect the dots when the evidence is right in front of them.

Here are some dots to connect:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/images/bushdoll.jpg http://www.oldamericancentury.org/shockand_we.jpeg

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/godless.jpg http://www.oldamericancentury.org/fox_endj.jpeg

4. Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/fy05.gif

5. Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002112639_diss08.html

7. Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/elev.jpeg

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=3563816

9. Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0219-02.htm

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aervulEx104o&refer=us

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/30/iraq/main580998.shtml

14. Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1529No

[The Postmaster General]

Tried to ban the documentary? Can you show me were you got that from?


Originally posted by Vong
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/images/bushdoll.jpg http://www.oldamericancentury.org/shockand_we.jpeg

It isn't like the government is forcing people to put up flags, buy George Bush dolls, or to capitalize on patriotic slogans.

I saw a hockey game and they sung the Canadian national anthem and waved some maple leaf flags. So?

Besides -

The Farting George Bush doll -
http://www.prankplace.com/images/pmf/bush.jpg

Court votes to allow flag burning -
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/27/flag.burning/index.html

Collection of George Bush jokes told on National TV -
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbush2005jokes.htm


2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

That's funny. The last I heard many people in the US and in our government were speaking out and trying to pass further laws to eliminate these practices.



3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/godless.jpg http://www.oldamericancentury.org/fox_endj.jpeg

http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/p/images/poster_moore_fahren911_lg.jpghttp://stuorg.ucsd.edu/~ucsddems/files/uploaded_images/franken-761101.jpg




4. Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

http://www.geocities.com/seguezagnut/anti-war_protest.jpg



5. Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid.

http://www.bongonews.com/StoryImages/condi_rice.jpg

Isn't Canada's cabinet, predominantly male?


Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

The #1 show in the nation not very long ago was about a gay couple. A fascist government against homosexuality wouldn't allow for that, would they?


6. Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common

You say this in a thread about a movie being released that decries the American government.

7. Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/elev.jpeg

You know, they got rid of that terror alert like 3 years ago.


Alright - lunch time. You see where I'm going anyway.

[Monotreme]

Vong, your problem is that you think you are the only leftist liberal in the world, and that every single person living in the United states is a right-wing conservative patriotic nut-job.

To put one final nail in the coffin, already adding to the wide array of nails courteously provided by BubbaStrangelove (great post, by the way):

"fas-cism: A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."
From Webster's Dictionary. Sure, it's convenient to nitpick and find all sorts of parallels between American society and the definition above. But if we take a look at the opposite end of the spectrum:

"de-mo-cra-cy: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections."
That's odd. Parallels can be drawn between American society and the definition above as well. Sorry bub, America's not fascist. If you want fascism, I suggest you take a look at a country like Iran or North Korea. Take a look at government, electorial procedures, racial laws, censorship and public conduct in THOSE countries, then come back to me and tell me that America is fascist.

[Vong]

I'm not neccesarily saying America is totally fascist.
I see the country as a dichotomy. The country is rooted in democracy from its creation, however, there seems to be a a growing sense of fascist ideology dominating the nation. From hearing and reading reports of idealists or people who speak against the government being harassesed, arrested and basically drawn, quartered and lynched, to the growing amount of control the government has on the country and its citizen's lives.

"fas-cism: A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."

From Webster's Dictionary.

By Webster's Dictionary I assume you mean dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism).

It's actually a common misconception of the definition of fascism to be linked to a dictator. Like communism, an ideology is compared to failed experiments of its tenets. The popular conception of fascism was created by Mussolini in Italy. Fascism can be formed by a government body as a whole or represented by one.

[electriclite]

Originally posted by Vong
From hearing and reading reports of idealists or people who speak against the government being harassesed, arrested and basically drawn, quartered and lynched, to the growing amount of control the government has on the country and its citizen's lives.

Ok when and where did you hear anything about anyone being drawn, quartered and lynched for disagreeing with the government?

That's right, you didn't. If you're trying to discuss this seriously, leave the hyperbole out.

As for the growing power that this CURRENT administration, there are many organizations and branches of governemtn that are cutting back on the liberal reign the Bush administration was exerting before. The Supreme Court has ruled against them before and organizations such as the American Bar Association are compiling the vast list of unconstitutional laws passed by the administration to persue legal action.


These are not the indications of a fascist government.

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by Vong
I'm not neccesarily saying America is totally fascist.
I see the country as a dichotomy. The country is rooted in democracy from its creation, however, there seems to be a a growing sense of fascist ideology dominating the nation. From hearing and reading reports of idealists or people who speak against the government being harassesed, arrested and basically drawn, quartered and lynched, to the growing amount of control the government has on the country and its citizen's lives.
I wonder, then, if you also consider France to be a fascist country, in light of the 2005 urban riots and especially in light of the French government's retribution to said riots, which, if I'm not mistaken, caused many injuries and property damage and at least one death. Because to me, it seems like you simply have a personal grudge against America.

[Vong]

Because to me, it seems like you simply have a personal grudge against America.

Perhaps I should just paste a previous response I made to a similar accusation of my apparent War on America...

Originally posted by Vong
Why do you feel I'm bashing America? I'm not attacking you or any person in that country, I'm attacking the ruling body that (at least I feel) is royally fucking you all over. Just as anyone has in the past commented on the status of North Korea, Iran, Israel, Lebanon or any other country/state, I feel that the U.S. deserves some spotlight for its misfortunes. Not to "vilify" or "insult" the country, but to hopefully create some awareness to a growing problem that many seem to ignore.

[JohnTheHenchman]

Vong isn't the Queen of England on your money?

Yeah America is so fascist, I'm being oppressed.

[someguy]

What the hell does that have to do with anything John?

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
t suggested the government could just simply print its own money and not take ours in order to pay down the debt.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH it said that!?!?!


Please don't post these crappy documentaries.

[JohnTheHenchman]

Originally posted by someguy
What the hell does that have to do with anything John?

What the hell does the American Government have to do with fascism?

Oh yeah, NOTHING!

[Vong]

Originally posted by JohnTheHenchman
What the hell does the American Government have to do with fascism?

Oh yeah, NOTHING!

Brilliant as always John.
Your in depth analysis and explication of the subject is very thorough.
I tip my hat to you.

[JohnTheHenchman]

Why should my points have to be drawn out?

[The Heart Collector]

It's not that your points have to be drawn out, it's that your typical response to anything in this forum is a random non-sequitur, followed by you leaving the thread and never coming back.

[QUENTIN]

It's very annoying. It seems like a thread may be on the topic of something like missing WMDs for instance, and there are 50 replies, and in one of them, someone calls Bush dumb as a throwaway line in a longer post, and all you do is quote that comment and say "Bush isn't dumb". I appreciate everyone's contribution and it's not about your viewpoints, as I consider Lynn among the hardest working schmoes on this forum, in terms of time and energy put into her posts. You are the opposite though. If you have something to say, say it, but just agreeing, disagreeing, or more often merely mocking people without giving any reasoning adds nothing to the conversation and isn't much of a contribution.

This isn't primarily about your posting in this thread, which isn't actually that problematic, but more your one sentence posting style in general.

As for the flick, the trailer for this is fairly hyperbolic, but at the same time, I am aware of the tax illegality issue and it's something that I wish was discussed more openly because it's hard to find good information on it. The government people seem to be lying and the anti-tax people seem to be paranoid. Either way, this movie is garnering decent reviews from respected critics, so I don't think it's the total garbage some of you are saying, though it definetly does seem like it ventures from solid doc to Alex Jones stuff towards the end. Has anyone here actually seen it?

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by QUENTIN
Has anyone here actually seen it?



(cue tumbleweed)

[JohnTheHenchman]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
It's not that your points have to be drawn out, it's that your typical response to anything in this forum is a random non-sequitur, followed by you leaving the thread and never coming back.

What, I've come back to this thread twice already though.

But once I make my point, I really don't have anything else to say. Isn't that crazy?!?!?!?

[EVILxxx]

John isn't the only one guilty of that practice. I've seen dozens of responses pretty much just say "Well that's America for ya." and they might follow it up with one of these: :rolleyes: