USA Basketball

[Trail_Blazer]

Wow, did anyone catch either of Team USA's exhibition games against Puerto Rico or China? Just complete blow outs... I caught part of the 3rd Quarter of their game in China, and it was just pathetic how HORRIBLE China was....

Do ya'll think they'll be able to win the Gold this year? I think they've gotta helluva roster... I don't know much about their coach though... And I believe Lithuania is the defending International Champions now... I think it could be interesting, if ANY of these teams could provide some decent fuckin' competition! :p

[TheMazVolta]

The only way they wont win, is if there is a repeat of the 72' Olympics

[mdpuff01]

They'll win for a couple reasons. First off, their picking the right team. Chris Paul and Kirk Hinrich are better pure point guards than anyone who was on the '04 team, and you need pure point guards to get everyone involved and control the tempo. They also added much better defensive players. Hinrich, Battier, and Bowen (although I'm not sure if both of the latter 2 will make the final squad) are better defenders than any one at the previous World Games. Also, there's much more diversity this time around. I felt that Richard Jefferson, Shawn Marion, and Lamar Odom all pretty much had the same role in the Athens games, as did Marbury and Iverson. But most importantly, the swagger is different. We have guys that won't let us lose. Dwyane Wade, Lebron, and Carmelo have the moxie to win close games if it comes down to it, whereas previously the US guys looked like they caught a Joe Frazier left hook whenver a game got close and had no idea how to execute in the clutch or who to trust.

There will be competition, particularly from Argentina. Argentina was the first team to beat the US in the 2002 World Championship. The following year in the olympic qualifying, Argentina gave us a really tough game (I think it was like a 6 point game or something) in the preliminary round before we smoked them in the final. The '03 qualifying team was probably better than the team we have this year (Ray Allen, Mike Bibby, Jason Kidd, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Tim Duncan, among others) so if they could run with them, they can run with the current US squad. And of course, in 2004 Argentina won the Olympic gold. Ginobili is hands down the best player in the world on an international court. Spain is also a tough team, having a win against Argentina in the Athens Olympics

[Trail_Blazer]

Well I thought I heard Bill Walton goin' on about how Lithuania is the team to beat Internationally.... He also said that Basketball has replaced Soccer as the favourite sport among people in China, which I thought was pretty cool...

[mdpuff01]

Originally posted by Trail_Blazer
Well I thought I heard Bill Walton goin' on about how Lithuania is the team to beat Internationally.... He also said that Basketball has replaced Soccer as the favourite sport among people in China, which I thought was pretty cool...

I think Spain and Argentina have the most talent and balance out of every team aside from the US. Lithuania and Italy are kind of like what West Virginia was in the NCAA tournament. They take advantage of the shortened 3 point line and they can really bomb away. That was shown when Italy took home the silver in the Athens games and Lithuania lost a tough game to the US in the Bronze medal game (they beat the US in prelims though). I don't think they have the talent and depth as these other teams, but they can put enough shooters out there and essentially trade 3 for 2. I don't think the US will have problems with those types of teams any more because Chris Paul, Kirk Hinrich, Shane Battier, and Bruce Bowen (if he makes the team) are great perimeter defenders who won't let the Lithuanians get the kinds of looks they got when Marbury and Iverson was our backcourt.

[bigred760]

The Brazilians gave them a close call, though Anthony got hurt just before the half. But it's probably a good thing for the Americans in that they've learned that some of these teams aren't pushovers. They've got talent, and Brazil isn't the best among them.

Another good thing Team USA did is get the right coach to get these guys together: Coach K (I'm not going to try to spell his last name) from Duke. The guy knows how to make young players play with each other. I think with that roster and that guy as coach, the team has a very good shot at gold this year and in the Olympics.

Bill Walton doesn't know his head from his ass. (Just thought I'd throw that in there :D).

[mdpuff01]

It's good that Brazil gave them a good game and they pulled through. I didn't get a chance to watch the game but one thing that was missing from previous teams was execution down the stretch. No real point guard, no player with a take charge attitude, etc. With Paul and Hinrich distributing and everyone putting their faith in Wade and Lebron I expect the US to be able to win close games and this was a great test.

[bigred760]

I'm glad to hear Carmelo's knee seems to be alright. He shouldn't be out for too long.

[mdpuff01]

Bruce Bowen got cut, finalizing the roster for the World Championships. I have a couple questions about this: first off, what is Antawn Jamison doing on the team? His game doesn't seem fit for the international game. Bowen is a lock down perimeter defender and role player that we need. Having Battier alone isn't enough.

Secondly, how the hell is Coach K gonna make a team for the Beijing Olympics? This was tough enough, and if it wasn't for injuries to Gilbert Arenas, Amare Stoudemire, and Shawn Marion during the tryouts it would have been a lot tougher. If they win the gold now, how can he justify making changes to the Beijing team? Kobe, Pierce, Arenas, Stoudemire, Redick, Billups, Odom, and Greg Oden will all be available to play in '08 and at least some of them (particularly Kobe and Stoudemire) almost have to be on the team. I'm glad I don't have to make these cuts...

[Trail_Blazer]

I don't know about the cuts... But I DO agree cutting Bowen and leaving Battier makes zero sense, as it doesn't really help the team from a defensive standpoint at all.... Dumb fuckin' move on their part I think.

[mdpuff01]

Tough game against Italy but the US pulled it out by 9. Two comments: first, Carmelo is establishing himself as the leader of this team and the guy who the players trust in the clutch. This surprises me since Wade was just the finals MVP and Lebron was a top 3 MVP candidate. Secondly, the US can't seem to stop any one. I thought their defense would have improved from the Athens games but they're still giving up a lot of points and threes. Looks like cutting Bowen was a mistake after all.

[bigred760]

Originally posted by mdpuff01
Tough game against Italy but the US pulled it out by 9. Two comments: first, Carmelo is establishing himself as the leader of this team and the guy who the players trust in the clutch. This surprises me since Wade was just the finals MVP and Lebron was a top 3 MVP candidate. Secondly, the US can't seem to stop any one. I thought their defense would have improved from the Athens games but they're still giving up a lot of points and threes. Looks like cutting Bowen was a mistake after all.

Oh, I don't know about that. The Italians are one of the world's powerhouses, but the US's defense is what's winning games for them, in my opinion. They beat China by 31, Slovenia by 19, and Senegal by 45 points. Some of these teams are good, and aren't intimidated by the US anymore (as EVERYBODY was by the first - and only - Dream Team).

Bruce Bowen wouldn't have been my first choice to cut off the team, since he is one of the best defenders in the NBA, but I think the U.S. team lacks presence down low. Yes, you have Dwight Howard and Elton Brand, but that's it - in my opinion. Shane Battier does have size and can help down low, moreso than Bowen.

[mdpuff01]

Originally posted by bigred760
Oh, I don't know about that. The Italians are one of the world's powerhouses, but the US's defense is what's winning games for them, in my opinion. They beat China by 31, Slovenia by 19, and Senegal by 45 points. Some of these teams are good, and aren't intimidated by the US anymore (as EVERYBODY was by the first - and only - Dream Team).

Bruce Bowen wouldn't have been my first choice to cut off the team, since he is one of the best defenders in the NBA, but I think the U.S. team lacks presence down low. Yes, you have Dwight Howard and Elton Brand, but that's it - in my opinion. Shane Battier does have size and can help down low, moreso than Bowen.

I'm not sure I would've cut Battier either. I don't see why Antawn Jamison is on the team. His game is suited for the NBA (slasher, not a great shooter, etc.). And you're right about the defense beating teams like China and Slovenia, but the US is just using an all out press that any good international team can pick apart for breakaways on the other end. The US forced 24 and 25 turnovers against China and Slovenia, respectively, but that's from a press that won't work against better teams. They only forced 15 turnovers against Italy, and the result was a close game where Italy shot 49% from the field because we can't stop any one in the half court. That's why I like Bowen.

I guess I just don't like the way the team is going right now. They're pressing too hard instead of playing real defense. The leaders of the team are Wade, Lebron, and Carmelo, none of whom have really solid international games. We spent the last 2 years talking about picking a team that can play perimeter defense and exploit the closer three point line, yet they're not doing either of those things. Take away Melo, who was on fire a couple games, and the US is only 31-87 from downtown, whereas they're still allowing opponents to shoot over 40% from beyond the arc and they've only played 1 good team so far. We're still trying to get other countries to play uptempo NBA style basketball and it won't work against a good team. It almost cost us against Italy, and in my opinion Spain and Argentina are clearly better teams all around than the Italians.

[bigred760]

I'll give you that the team has a ways to go. They're still young and learning to play with each other, and play internationally. I'm not sure what you mean by the team leaders not having a solid international game - their game is their game. It seems to be working well; Carmelo was the main reason the US beat Italy, a team that kicked their ass 2-3 years ago. Italy is probably the best perimeter shooting team in the competition right now; and the full screen press has helped cause turnovers and mistakes by the other teams. I like the way Coack K is shaping the team and how they're defending. They are 5-0; that's gotta count for something.

[mdpuff01]

What I meant by the leaders not having an international game is simple. I said Melo was an exception on the offensive end, but none of them play good perimeter defense, and Lebron and Wade are shooting awfully from the outside. They don't move the ball around and look for openings. Wade and Lebron insist on forcing the issue by penetrating. I personally think we need better ball movement to succeed in the international game, and the three "leaders" aren't doing that. I think the problem is that Wade, Carmelo, and Lebron are all lost when the ball isn't in their hands. They don't know how to move without the ball so we can't use a solid motion offense, so instead we run isolations on the wing for them because that's what they're more comfortable with. That works in the NBA, where superstars get calls, are essentially allowed to travel, and zone defenses are used less frequently. We should have Chris Paul controlling the tempo (the key to our success in my opinion) and the other guys moving around and setting screens to get open jumpers or backdoor layups. But they're not comfortable with that so we understandably don't do it. That's why I said they don't have good international games.

You are right though, they're 5-0, and if it ain't brok, don't fix it. I just hope the Italy game was a wake up call. We couldn't force too many turnovers with the press, and we sucked on halfcourt defense. It took a record breaking performance from Carmelo to win that game, and we can't rely on that against better teams. You're also right that Italy is a great team, but they can't play defense and aren't athletic. We can't expect Melo to go off against Argentina or Spain the way he went off against Italy, so we need to step up our defense. I have faith in Coach K so I still think we'll win, but I don't like the direction they're going

[bigred760]

Originally posted by mdpuff01
You are right though, they're 5-0, and if it ain't brok, don't fix it. I just hope the Italy game was a wake up call. We couldn't force too many turnovers with the press, and we sucked on halfcourt defense. It took a record breaking performance from Carmelo to win that game, and we can't rely on that against better teams. You're also right that Italy is a great team, but they can't play defense and aren't athletic. We can't expect Melo to go off against Argentina or Spain the way he went off against Italy, so we need to step up our defense. I have faith in Coach K so I still think we'll win, but I don't like the direction they're going

I agree 100%. I was hoping the Brazil game would've woken them up, but apparently not. There's only so many "wake up calls" allowed. If they don't know by now that they're not even close to the original Dream Team, then they're in trouble.

[bigred760]

Wow - ass whooping!!! I was a little nervous in the 1st quarter, when the Australians were popping threes like tic tacs, but the 32-6 2nd quarter erased all doubt. I'm betting the Australians got tired since they didn't sub as much as the Americans did (and usually do). It's off to against Germany.

[mdpuff01]

Romped Germany 85-65. That's the kind of performance I've been waiting for defensively. The Germans shot under 40% for the game and only connected on 3 of 13 three pointers. Offensively, we're still not going smoothly. Lebron had 7 turnovers, and even though we've stressed for the last 2 years how we need a team who can shoot, we only hit 10 of 40 from downtown. I'm glad we had the confidence to bomb away 40 times, but that's what I was talking about when I said the people this team is built around don't have good international games. At least they got it done defensively, and if they play defense like that, they'll win for sure. Next up is Greece, which I don't think any one is afraid of.

I said a while ago on this board, before I looked at the grouping or anything, that Spain and Argentina were the two best international team. I'll be honest, even though I felt that, I had no idea they would be this dominant. I'm glad we only have to play one of those teams because either one can give us a run for our money. I think we match up better with Spain personally. Even though they're the most athletic team in this contest (other than us of course) they're not as balanced offensively as Argentina. Spain has a clear go-to guy in Gasol, and our interior defense is pretty solid. If we stop him, we beat Spain easily. Argentina has Ginobili, and we have no one who can guard him. On top of that, they have Nocioni, Luis Scola, and Carlos Delfino. They spread the ball a lot more than Spain and will test our defense a lot more since they're stronger from the perimeter (not necessarily the 3 point line, but their guys can all create shots, whereas Spain's shooters just wait for Gasol kick out passes). I'm assuming we romp Greece so forgive me for looking past them but this final, especially if it's against Argentina, will be the most significant International basketball game for the US since the original Dream Team came in to re-establish dominance after our first legit loss in Olympic competition. Forgive me for being excited.

[bigred760]

We stepped up big time defensively. Yeah, we struggled offensively, but like they say - defense wins championships. I'm not too worried about our perimeter shooting, especially after we did alright against Australia. Perimeter shooting hasn't been our bread and butter, it's been aggressiveness, rebounding, and our depth on the bench. I am worried about Spain and Argentina also, but Greece is no slouch either. They've got a pretty good squad.

[NightStalkerGtx]

Originally posted by mdpuff01


I said a while ago on this board, before I looked at the grouping or anything, that Spain and Argentina were the two best international team. I'll be honest, even though I felt that, I had no idea they would be this dominant. I'm glad we only have to play one of those teams because either one can give us a run for our money. I think we match up better with Spain personally. Even though they're the most athletic team in this contest (other than us of course) they're not as balanced offensively as Argentina. Spain has a clear go-to guy in Gasol, and our interior defense is pretty solid. If we stop him, we beat Spain easily. Argentina has Ginobili, and we have no one who can guard him. On top of that, they have Nocioni, Luis Scola, and Carlos Delfino. They spread the ball a lot more than Spain and will test our defense a lot more since they're stronger from the perimeter (not necessarily the 3 point line, but their guys can all create shots, whereas Spain's shooters just wait for Gasol kick out passes). I'm assuming we romp Greece so forgive me for looking past them but this final, especially if it's against Argentina, will be the most significant International basketball game for the US since the original Dream Team came in to re-establish dominance after our first legit loss in Olympic competition. Forgive me for being excited.


We shall see...:)

[mdpuff01]

Originally posted by mdpuff01
Next up is Greece, which I don't think any one is afraid of.


Well... shows what I know. I didn't like the way team USA was playing, particularly because they had no shooting and played no perimeter defense. It's disappointing that after the Athens games, all we did was talk about forming an elite team that could shoot and lock down defensively (the reasons we lost that competition as well) and we couldn't get it done. Against Greece, we were 9-28 from downtown and we missed 14 free throws. I said after the Italy game that a team with a good backcourt could pick our press apart, and we'd need to play great halfcourt defense to win. My worries were calmed after Germany, but I guess that was kind of an aberration. We were only able to force 11 turnovers against Greece, forcing us to play halfcourt defense to win. The result: they shoot 62% from the field and 44% from downtown. I felt our weaknesses might catch up to us, but definitely not against Greece. I didn't give them a fair shake because I've never heard of any of these guys but I guess I'm still narrowminded to the point where if an international team doesn't have an NBA player I don't pay them any mind.

[NightStalkerGtx]

ESPANA!!!!!!!!!!!

Spain Vs Greece

Come on Spain!

[mdpuff01]

Gasol's out for the gold medal game... doesn't bode well for Spain.

As for the US, they beat Argentina to win the bronze. They put together a solid defensive effort, holding Argentina to 4-21 from downtown. It's a big win because Argentina is easily one of the best teams in the world, so at least we know all hope is not lost.

Now, in my opinion the US needs to make some changes. I liked a few things, and I didn't like a few things. I liked the big men... they were active on the boards, played tough d, and cleaned up underneath when they had the chance. Teams don't win international games by focusing on big men (except Spain, who surround Gasol with enough shooters you can't double him), so we don't need a Tim Duncan or Shaq because we don't have the shooters to make them effective (we saw this in 2004 with Duncan). I also liked the point guards. Chris Paul and Kirk Hinrich are tough defenders with great range and can run pick and rolls to perfection.

What I didn't like was the focus on the 3 captains. Their style of isolations and penetration really took the game out of the hands of the point guards, and against zone defenses with refs who don't give them every call, that style doesn't work like it does in the NBA. Against Greece, they took 40 of the team's 66 shots. They're great players, and I don't mind if they shoot a lot, but it doesn't come in the context of a motion offense. There was too much pressure on them, and we gave them way too much freedom. A lot of that can be put on Coach K, who I also didn't like. I already talked about the defense like 10 times on this board, and I don't like how he didn't trust the point guards to run this offense whatsoever. He also didn't utilize Brad Miller enough, who should've been involved in pick and pops with Chris Paul at least 10 times per game.

At the end though it's hard to criticize. They got the bronze, were impressive against Argentina in doing so, and only lost one game where their shooting (perimeter and free throw) let them down (not like in Athens, where they won the bronze as well but lost at least 3 games). With a couple roster adjustments I think the US will be fine in Beijing.

[bigred760]

We should have beat Greece; if we can beat Argentina that easily, we should've beat Greece. And now Greece has an easy route to the Championship now that Gasol is out.

Though we didn't win it all; I'm still very optimistic for next year and then the Olympics. We'll have Kobe Bryant on the team by then, and the team will have gotten used to playing with each other by then.

[NightStalkerGtx]

Spain baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:) :D :cool:

[bigred760]

Originally posted by NightStalkerGtx
Spain baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:) :D :cool:

I was impressed that Spain pulled through without Gasol. It just pisses me off that Greece beat us, and then did that poorly in the championship. At least, we would've made a game of it.

Felicidades a Espana.

[mdpuff01]

Greece really rolled over. Gasol led Spain in scoring and rebounding, yet they blew Greece out without him. I wish I could call Greece's win against us a fluke but they've been impressive throughout the tournament. I think the way they lost to Spain was more of a fluke than them beating us because they really are a good team. The US mathces up well with Spain. We beat them in Athens with Gasol, so we would've at least made a game out of this, and probably won.

As fot the US, I hope Kobe plays because he's certainly better for the international game than our 3 captains. He's a better shooter (probably would be lethal from the closer three point line) and plays much tougher defense. I also think we need more shooting. Arenas would be great but his comments probably ended any chance of that happening. Redick should be on the team, and hopefully Michael Redd, Chauncey Billups, and Rip Hamilton. By the way, Redd, Billups, and Rip all got invites to try out... does any one know what happened? Are they just not interested or were they hurt? They definitely didn't get cut so something must've happened before the tryouts.

I think ideally we could get a couple more shooters along with Kobe, dump some dead weight big men (if Bosh and Miller aren't gonna play, why are they there?) and replace them with guys we can use (Amre Stoudemire or Greg Oden, or just have fewer bigs on the team). But the people that definitely need to be cut are Bosh, Jamison, and Joe Johnson. Bosh is the worst defensively of the big men and doesn't make up for it on the offensive end (can't shoot, can't post up against zones, doesn't command extra attention). Jamison really adds nothing, and although Joe Johnson is a good shooter, he's terrible at moving without the ball. You need players who are effective without the ball, so I think Redick is a better choice than Johnson (so are Redd and Rip obviously but I'm not sure if they're interested). I like Brad Miller's game a lot but if they're not gonna use him they might as well cut him too. With the exception of the really young guys (like Laettner in '92) the successful Dream Teams played pretty much every body. We need to get back to that and not focus on the best NBA players, but have more balance. Remember, Charles Barkley led the original Dream Team in scoring, despite Magic, Michael, Bird, and Malone all being better NBA players. the US will be fine with a couple changes

[bigred760]

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/columns/story?columnist=neel_eric&id=2991049


USA basketball has looked really good in these FIBA games; granted their opponents are nothing to brag about, but beating a Brazil team who isn't half bad is impressive. Of course, Argentina and France are the real tests, but I think with Kobe, Lebron, and Carmelo rocking every game, the Americans should roll.

[Darth Kenshin]

I agree they've lookd amazing. I just hope that they don't make too many changes to this team (unless Argentina beats them). The experience of playing together in a real tournament will help them tremendously from a chemistry standpoint next summer. I feel bad for Wade, Hinrich, Paul, and whoever else was injured and couldn't compete, but unless one of the 12 guys on this squad gets hurt, none of them should be asked back. This current team understands their roles (although Melo still shoots way too much), complement each other perfectly, check their egos, and the players have an extremely high basketball IQ. I know this competition isn't elite (aside from Argentina of course) but still, it's a step in the right direction.

[bigred760]

Well . . . the US has clinched a spot in the Olympics with their ass-whooping of Puerto Rico. They'll face Argentina (again) in the FIBA finals, but it doesn't matter since both are in. This is the best I've seen the team in a long time; they're really good and look like they're having fun while they're at it.

[Darth Kenshin]

They looked great in destroying Argentina again. Everyone knows their role, Kidd and Kobe are the clear leaders, they're getting after people defensively, and every ego is checked. The only thing I would've liked to see is how they respond to a challenge, particularly how Coach K will run the team if he has to break is set rotations.

The bad news is Argentina will come back a lot stronger, adding 4 significant players next year, including Ginobili. Also, the US had some rebounding troubles, being outrebounded a few times. Lastly, they gave up like 100 points to Mexico. That kind of lapse will cost them against a real team like Spain or a full Argentina squad. The good news is the US squad should be better next year. Everyone seems to agree that Wade will take Mike Miller's spot (although I'm not sure about that). Chris Bosh or Greg Oden (more likely Bosh) will upgrade Tyson Chandler, and Tayshaun Prince , who has to play a lot of power forward because of the stacked roster, will probably be replaced by a real power forward (Boozer or Brand?) to help out on the boards since we did struggle there at times. Overall, a great performance, with Kidd, Kobe, Melo, Lebron, and Michael Redd setting the tone, and everyone else doing their part. I just hope the addition of more stars next year (particularly Wade) doesn't screw up the chemistry.