Pictures of civilian casualties in Lebanon *very graphic*

[Vong]

Take want you want from these pictures. Only question if all of this is worth the lives of a handful of soldiers...

Here are some images you won't see on the news:

Ten day-old Lebanese baby Waad, lying in her mother's arms August 8th, found in the rubble of a building hit by an Israeli strike in Beirut the previous night.

http://static.flickr.com/80/211659370_53cb2731ac_m.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/68/211657976_650016a01b.jpg

[Vong]

Abbas Wehbeh holding baby Waad.

http://static.flickr.com/74/211657342_7cb6b02db0.jpg




Girl cries as she is carried by a Lebanese Red Cross rescuer at a hospital in the suburbs of Beirut, Lebanon, August 7th.

http://static.flickr.com/96/211658805_fe1542586d.jpg

[Vong]

A boy wounded in an airstrike in Beirut on August 7th.

http://static.flickr.com/88/211658216_e0a588e9e4.jpg



Manal al-Husseini, 3, lies dead at Al Raeh hospital morgue after an Israeli air strike on Ghaziyeh village, south Lebanon, August 8th.

http://static.flickr.com/79/211657773_c5db72ea7d.jpg

[Vong]

Lebanese Hadi Jaafar, 2, lies on the floor as he is prepared to be buried in the southern town of Ghaziyeh

http://static.flickr.com/76/211657379_9aeb455465.jpg



Hussein Abbas Jouni, killed in an Israeli air raid on Ghaziyeh

http://static.flickr.com/98/211657299_64203199a0.jpg

[Vong]

Dead fish on public beach polluted in Beirut. The Mediterranean is threatened by its worst ever environmental disaster after Israels bombing of a power plant in Lebanon.

http://static.flickr.com/81/207999282_10e97947e8.jpg





An injured cat walks away from Ouzai port after an Israeli air raid on Beirut, August 4.

http://static.flickr.com/59/207890307_41eec8b5f2.jpg

[Vong]

A wounded man from Ayta-shaab in the south Safir

http://static.flickr.com/77/204726189_404eda9f80.jpg




A Lebanese family flees Israeli bombing of the village of Aitaron to Bent Jbail south Lebanon, August 1.

http://static.flickr.com/60/204724816_bf0c6e802b.jpg

[Vong]

Another family fleeing.

http://static.flickr.com/59/204724755_9b7b531b73.jpg



And another

http://static.flickr.com/58/204724685_b85af2d340.jpg

[Vong]

And another

http://static.flickr.com/78/204724946_f0dc173518.jpg



And another

http://static.flickr.com/68/204725045_0d2c6d2611.jpg

[Vong]

And another

http://static.flickr.com/59/204006171_7e5db86b30.jpg




And another

http://static.flickr.com/77/204006235_ec41056cb6.jpg




And another

http://static.flickr.com/67/204005773_ebe09961a7.jpg

[Vong]

During all of the carnage, George W. Bush and Condaleza Rice sit and have dinner on August 1.

http://static.flickr.com/62/204006637_313ae2ca6b.jpg

[EVILxxx]

I've seen the top two ones on the news.
These pictures really shouldn't change anyones view on this issue unless they are fickle to the point where horrible images change their views. With the amount of bombing that is going on casualties like these are unavoidable and as disgusting as it may sound, expected.
I know this has been brought up a million times in the news since this conflict has started but UN resolution 1559 was pretty good. Does anyone else find it crazy that a militia has a more powerful force in a country than the actual military? If Lebanon and more importantly the UN had done their jobs this incident may never have happened.

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by Vong
During all of the carnage, George W. Bush and Condaleza Rice sit and have dinner on August 1.

http://static.flickr.com/62/204006637_313ae2ca6b.jpg

Yeah, let's all forgo our meals until this crisis is over.

[Vong]

If Lebanon and more importantly the UN had done their jobs this incident may never have happened.

Keep in mind that the only thing that kept things from getting accomplished was the U.S.'s intention to not give Israel the shit end of a UN resolution.

[outsyder]

Oh Hezbollah, have you no shame?

http://opinionjournal.com/best/080806lefteris2.jpg

http://opinionjournal.com/best/080806lefteris3.jpg

[Vong]

Yeah, they did a fantastic job on those children with red paint and ketchup.

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by Vong
Keep in mind that the only thing that kept things from getting accomplished was the U.S.'s intention to not give Israel the shit end of a UN resolution.

Really? That's the only thing? Because I could have sworn it was the UNs lack of action in dealing with Iran and Syria's hands being in Lebanon's business. Yeah great you got Syria to get out Lebanon, but it doesn't really do much when you don't follow through and allow it's lackey to remain and entrench itself in the country's infrastructure.

[Vong]

Well, while we are on the topic of failed actions, what about the Security Council Resolution 242, passed on 22 November 1967 that called for the withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in the war that year? It's still being ignored to this day.

Resolution 427: " . . . 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.

Resolution 446 (1979): 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".. Israeli settlements in the occupied territories thus declared illegal.

Resolution 465: " . . . 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program".

Resolution 497 (17 December 1981) decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.

There is more resolutions aimed at Israel to stop its attack on its neighbours. Many of them were either flat out ignored by Israel, or the U.S. vetoed the resolution to "protect" Israel's interests.

[Jon Lyrik]

Well, there goes any good vibes I had today. Where's my Xanax?

[Tuukka]

I disapprove the posting of these pictures just as much as I disapproved Monotreme's recent pictures of a hate rally.

Why?

Because making topics like this is just a pure propaganda. You can find gross pictures of killed innocent civilians in ANY war, committed by EVERY side of EVERY war ever fought.

We know that civilians die in wars. By posting pictures like this you are just trying to do cheap emotional manipulation for propaganda purposes. And it's pointless, since the opposing side can provide just as graphic pictures of civilians killed by the other side of the war.

But in order to cheer everyone up, here is a kitten who died outside of combat, by traffic accident:

http://www.easterncougar.org/Kykitten.jpg

[MacReady]

Originally posted by EVILxxx
If Lebanon and more importantly the UN had done their jobs this incident may never have happened.

If they did that would likely start another civil war.

Oh, and I've never seen a single cartoon so brilliantly illustrate what's so horribly wrong and stupid with neocon anti-terrorist logic:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7896/hidinggq9.gif

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by Vong
During all of the carnage, George W. Bush and Condaleza Rice sit and have dinner on August 1.

http://static.flickr.com/62/204006637_313ae2ca6b.jpg

What the fuck is this supposed to prove?!?

[Squid Vicious]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
What the fuck is this supposed to prove?!?

It proves the same thing that Michael Moore proved when he showed Bush sitting in that classroom for seven minutes in Fahrenheit 9/11.

Namely, nothing.

[Tuukka]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
What the fuck is this supposed to prove?!?

It proves that if Bush in fact consumes normal human food, he is NOT an evil interstellar robot sent down by Xenu himself.

[jeo4]

Sorry, but this is nothing more than a lop-sided smear campaign against Israel. And it means absolutely nothing because of the gross hypocrisy. While we’re showing pictures of the “poor Lebanese”, where are the pictures of the thousands of dead Israelis killed in bus bombings, malls, markets, weddings, and so on?? If you aren’t at least going to be objective, then what’s the point? Both sides have suffered massive civilian casualties. And for years. What do these pictures do other than offer a one-way commentary against Israel?

My utter contempt for terror organizations only gets worse when I see a string of lies coming from them. I was listening to NPR this morning, and the fucking dolts were passing out fliers after the truce took effect that said (and I’m quoting the reporter here) “Congratulations to Hezbollah on this victory.” VICTORY? IT’S A FUCKING CEASE FIRE, IDIOTS! Your group is a FRACTION OF THE SIZE YOU WERE ONE MONTH AGO!! This wasn’t a victory. It was a slaughter followed by a written “I give up”!!

As for the photo that outsyder posted, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if every single body there were covered in paint or ketchup or whatever just to further a so-called cause against Israel. And don’t give me this line of bullshit about Israel being the “real terrorists” when Kofi Annan himself said that Israel had a right to defend itself against these thugs.

THC brings up an excellent point…why is a picture of Bush and Condoleeza Rice meeting supposed to bother me? What does it prove? That all leaders should stop eating? If nothing else, this photo taught me that our President likes to meet and talk policy over lunch. Hell, this is my tax dollars at work! And wasn’t Rice the one that actually MADE AN IMMEDIATE TRIP TO LEBANON TO TALK ABOUT A CEASE FIRE?? And didn't the US and France actually write the cease fire?? Yeah, this picture accomplished the exact opposite of its desired affect in my eyes.

I agree completely with Tuuka as well…the posting of pictures is nothing more than hollow, pointless propaganda designed to manipulate emotions and generate sympathy that, in my opinion, is undeserved.

[echo_bravo]

Vong, it makes me sick too that civilians are caught up in the mix. But there are two sides to it. Israel has had civilian casualities as well.

[Thrizzle]

Yea, what Jeo4 said. But then i would also question your real motive and then ask what you would do if you were Israel. Then i'd throw in a witty remark about Bush and Rice, and end it all with a joke about a Rabbi, a Priest, and a fiesty Mule on a raft at sea.

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by Squid Vicious
It proves the same thing that Michael Moore proved when he showed Bush sitting in that classroom for seven minutes in Fahrenheit 9/11.

Namely, nothing.

Nah, I'd say they're a bit different.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Originally posted by Squid Vicious
It proves the same thing that Michael Moore proved when he showed Bush sitting in that classroom for seven minutes in Fahrenheit 9/11.

Namely, nothing.

There's a difference. For one, two people eating together isn't quite the same as someone just sitting there on his ass even though the country is under attack.

To be fair, though, I never really held that against Bush as much as I do all the other dumb shit he's done.

[outsyder]

Originally posted by Tuukka
It proves that if Bush in fact consumes normal human food, he is NOT an evil interstellar robot sent down by Xenu himself.

Lord Xenu has no affiliation with George W. Bush. But he did send Condoleeza.

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by MacReady
If they did that would likely start another civil war.



Civil war doesn't sound any less appealing than being under the thumb of foreign governments.

Originally posted by Vong
During all of the carnage, George W. Bush and Condaleza Rice sit and have dinner on August 1.

http://static.flickr.com/62/204006637_313ae2ca6b.jpg

This post also reminds me of a joke that a comedian named Todd Barry said once.

Where's the after show party people? You wanna go see Farenheight 9/11? The fucking audiences at that movie, seriously. I mean he could have had a scene that said On September 10th George W. Bush took a sip of water. 'Oh fuck! What an asshole.'

[Brando @$$ Fat]

I don't see why everybody is taking sides with Israel. They both fucked up, and they're equally responsible for all of the madness, death, and injured kittens.

[EVILxxx]

Because Israel has citizens that look white.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Good point...

[Criminal Rock]

Originally posted by Brando @$$ Fat
I don't see why everybody is taking sides with Israel. They both fucked up, and they're equally responsible for all of the madness, death, and injured kittens.

Hezbollah fights because they want to destroy Israel, and Israel fights because they don’t want to die. And though both are accountable for the level the situation has reached to, Israel’s, and the rest of the Middle East’s, way of thinking aren’t even remotely comparable.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
Hezbollah fights because they want to destroy Israel, and Israel fights because they don’t want to die. And though both are accountable for the level the situation has reached to, Israel’s, and the rest of the Middle East’s, way of thinking aren’t even remotely comparable.

True, but I've started seeing this whole conflict as being no different than the one between the I.R.A. and Great Britain. Sure, Britain might have started the whole thing, but the way the I.R.A. retaliated, by killing all of those innocent people, makes them just as evil if not more so.

[JohnTheHenchman]

Vong, didn't you criticize those who made the details of the terror plot by saying they just wanna strike fear into our hearts. Then what, tell me, are you trying to do by this? And what do you propose should be done to end it?

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by Vong
Abbas Wehbeh holding baby Waad.

http://static.flickr.com/74/211657342_7cb6b02db0.jpg



I like the guy taking a picture of the dead baby with his camera phone.

[free]

I'm getting so sick of hearing about the "innocent people" being killed in Lebanon, and how it's all the evil Jews that are killing them.

Hezbollah fires rockets, then moves the launchers into populated areas, refuses to let the people leave the area, then celebrates when the civilians die because that means that they can score some sympathy points in the PR battle. Why not show us some aftermath of a suicide bomb that hits Israel every few days?

I know it sounds strange coming from me, but the media in this country is most definitely biased in favor of Hezbollah. On CNN, they interviewed a few Lebanese citizens who all said that violence isn't the answer and they need to make a peace treaty.

HEZBOLLAH WANTS THE JEWS DEAD!!

You can't negotiate with people whose sole purpose is to cause your destruction. Israel could give all their land to Hezbollah and Palestine, then conquer Cuba and live there, and I guarantee that they would still get attacked.

Now, I don't think Israel's claim that God gave them that land was justification to take it over and occupy it, but guess what, they DID take it over, and just about every major power in the world has recognized that they are a country. So they have a right to protect themselves.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Is Left Behind 2 really your favorite movie?

[MacReady]

Originally posted by free
I'm getting so sick of hearing about the "innocent people" being killed in Lebanon, and how it's all the evil Jews that are killing them.

I'm getting utterly fucking sick to my stomach about people in the west whining about how kidnapping 2 soldiers is pure evil yet destroying the entire souther part of sovereign nation, forcing nearly half a millions people to leave their homes and likely come back to nothing but destroyed rubble, and killing roughly 900 people in retaliation are totally justified in order to teach them some fucked up, poorly thought out 'lesson' for the people living there.

Originally posted by free
Hezbollah fires rockets, then moves the launchers into populated areas, refuses to let the people leave the area, then celebrates when the civilians die because that means that they can score some sympathy points in the PR battle. Why not show us some aftermath of a suicide bomb that hits Israel every few days?

A shitty argument. The cartoon I posted earlier demonstrates my view perfectly: Israel is no better for knowingly bombing places that have dozens of civilians. It's like condemning somebody for taking hostages but if the negotiator decided to kill all the hostages, should he be seen as better than the other hostage taker?

As for 'refusing to let them leave', where have you heard that? What about the fact that when a densely populated nation is forced to suddenly evacuate, it makes the entire roads bloated and full of traffic (plus not everybody can leave right away and must take their families along with some choice belongings). Let's also take into the account Israel has also bombed roads (including ambulances), so even their advice for the civilians isn't that sound.

Originally posted by free
I know it sounds strange coming from me, but the media in this country is most definitely biased in favor of Hezbollah. On CNN, they interviewed a few Lebanese citizens who all said that violence isn't the answer and they need to make a peace treaty.

HEZBOLLAH WANTS THE JEWS DEAD!!

You can't negotiate with people whose sole purpose is to cause your destruction. Israel could give all their land to Hezbollah and Palestine, then conquer Cuba and live there, and I guarantee that they would still get attacked.

Then fucking kill Hezbollah!!! Christ, it can't be that complicated! Are any of those 30 kids who were offed in Qana part of Hezbollah? No? Then leave them the fuck alone and go after fucking hezbollah. As for your 'move to Cuba' analogy, it's barely accurate. Certainly some people would still hate the jews, but if the middle east was left alone, I doubt people like Hassan and Bin Laden will be able to get as many angry young muslims to join up in their quest for jihad if 'the zionist entity' ceased to exist in arab lands.

Originally posted by free
Now, I don't think Israel's claim that God gave them that land was justification to take it over and occupy it, but guess what, they DID take it over, and just about every major power in the world has recognized that they are a country. So they have a right to protect themselves.

That's retarded. The land they've occupied has started a massive conflict in the region, caused many, many wars, and continues to face constant threats of attacks and resistance withing the state from the original inhabitants. It may be recognized by some, but other refuse to accept it, and other have gone so far as to say it must wiped off the map.

I'll leave with my major beef with what's going on. When somebody says that 9/11 is like the worst thing to have happened in like forever, yet all but out and out tell the Lebanese to 'suck it up', I begin to smell a double standard being applied.

[Joshmo]

Those are horrific photos indeed - and Israel should be condemed for such disproportionate violence in defending itself - along with the U.S supporting this atrocity and then lying that it had no forknowledge...

and speaking of the U.S - just change the name of Lebanon on those photos to Iraq and imagine.......

[Thrizzle]

So because Hezbollah hides behind civilians, Israel isnt allowed to fire back? And don't give me this "they have to because they're weaker" or "they bomb weddings because they don't have planes" bullshit.

[Joshmo]

I grow WEARY with some of you....where the fuck did I say they dont have the right to defend themselves? Do you freaking know what DISPROPORTIONATE means?:rolleyes:

[Thrizzle]

I was refering to MacReady...i think...i forget. But definitely not you.

[Joshmo]

I apologize..I failed to see I was carried over on page 2. Sorry again

[EVILxxx]

Israel's offensive is not soley contributed to the capture of the two soldiers. It has been building up like this for years. Over here were aren't gonna here reports like "1 hostage taken by Hezbollah was murdered today" or "Hezbollah suicide bomber injures 3". It is nonstop over there for Israel. Firefights are the norm, and suicide bombings are expected.
An incident where a party within the Lebanese parliment crosses the boarder into another country and kills Israeli soldiers and takes others hostage, I can not think of a clearer definition of a declaration of war.
The military wing of Hezbollah answers to no one within the Lebanese government, so Lebanon can not be blamed for what it does; but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they are going to feel the brunt of any retaliation any other country takes on Hezbollah.

[MacReady]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
So because Hezbollah hides behind civilians, Israel isnt allowed to fire back? And don't give me this "they have to because they're weaker" or "they bomb weddings because they don't have planes" bullshit.

So by that standard you don't mind the fact that Hezbollah lauched hundreds upon hundreds of missiles into Israel in retaliation against a state that had?

What I was trying to say was Israel tactic was brutal and poorly thought out. Remember that time they rescued those hostages stuck in an airplane from that problem dumbass Idi Amin back in the 70's? Like all of them made it out allright (except for one unfortunate Jewish grandmother). The damn thing amazes me. Same thing with their endless array of quick victories over seemingly far superior and larger Arab states. What I'm trying to say is that Israel is going about this the wrong way. It's destroying everything in shit and attacking with too much instensity and quickness. Christ, send the mossad to raid and wipe them out. I don't see the IDF as much better than Hezbollah, who aren't forcing anybody to drop those things on civilians.

Originally posted by EVILxxx
Israel's offensive is not soley contributed to the capture of the two soldiers. It has been building up like this for years. Over here were aren't gonna here reports like "1 hostage taken by Hezbollah was murdered today" or "Hezbollah suicide bomber injures 3". It is nonstop over there for Israel. Firefights are the norm, and suicide bombings are expected.

Yeah, but it's still retarded. Israel lost over 100 soldiers and nearly 50 civilians. Besides, Israel usually doesn't ignore things like this. I mean, they retalitate to these things as they go along and shit.

Originally posted by EVILxxx
An incident where a party within the Lebanese parliment crosses the boarder into another country and kills Israeli soldiers and takes others hostage, I can not think of a clearer definition of a declaration of war.
The military wing of Hezbollah answers to no one within the Lebanese government, so Lebanon can not be blamed for what it does; but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they are going to feel the brunt of any retaliation any other country takes on Hezbollah.

Israel has a right to retaltiation, however along with being far too brutal on the civilian population, Israel's hasn't made that serious a dent in Hezbollah. All it's done is create a huge wound that Hezbollah will heal, along with convincing the entire Lebanese population that state Hezbollah wants wiped off the map is their enemy and thus they are justified in pursuing this goal.

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by MacReady




Israel has a right to retaltiation, however along with being far too brutal on the civilian population, Israel's hasn't made that serious a dent in Hezbollah. All it's done is create a huge wound that Hezbollah will heal, along with convincing the entire Lebanese population that state Hezbollah wants wiped off the map is their enemy and thus they are justified in pursuing this goal. [/B]

Yeah Israel didn't meet their military objective because the the UN cease-fire kicked in. Not much more can be said on that, except that this war will pick up again in a few years time.

[BubbaStrangelove]

Yeah, bad pictures. I wonder what V would do.

[free]

Israel is no better for knowingly bombing places that have dozens of civilians. It's like condemning somebody for taking hostages but if the negotiator decided to kill all the hostages, should he be seen as better than the other hostage taker?

What should they do then? Allow themselves to be killed so as to not kill civilians? What would have happened if the US took that type of attitude toward Japan during WW2? A whole lot more innocent people would have died.

So by that standard you don't mind the fact that Hezbollah lauched hundreds upon hundreds of missiles into Israel in retaliation against a state that had?

I have no problem with Hezbollah targeting military personnel (who follow the Genevia Conventoin's rules and wear uniforms, unlike Hezbollah), but should the Israeli army run and hide behind women and children, then they would have to bomb that area to get to the military personnel. That wouldn't be Hezbollah's fault if that happened, it would be the Israeli army for hiding behind civilians. Hezbollah intentionally bombs civilian targets in Israel. When Israel kills innocent Lebanese, they mourn. When Hezbollah kills innocent Israelis, they celebrate.

As for 'refusing to let them leave', where have you heard that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/world/middleeast/28refugees.htm?

(you have to register to read the article, here's a snip of it)

Hezbollah came to Ain Ebel to shoot its rockets,” said Fayad Hanna Amar, a young Christian man, referring to his village. “They are shooting from between our houses.”

“Please,’’ he added, “write that in your newspaper.”

… Mr. Amar said Hezbollah fighters in groups of two and three had come into Ain Ebel, less than a mile from Bint Jbail, where most of the fighting has occurred. They were using it as a base to shoot rockets, he said, and the Israelis fired back.

One woman, who would not give her name because she had a government job and feared retribution, said Hezbollah fighters had killed a man who was trying to leave Bint Jbail.

“This is what’s happening, but no one wants to say it” for fear of Hezbollah, she said.

Are any of those 30 kids who were offed in Qana part of Hezbollah?

Probably not, but I would bet that surrounding those kids were a lot of Hezbollah soldiers, who purposefully risked the lives of those children in an attempt to gain sympathy.

[free]

And, no, it isn't my favorite movie, it's a joke. I am an atheist liberal (but apparently not when it comes to this issue :confused: )

[MacReady]

Originally posted by free
What should they do then? Allow themselves to be killed so as to not kill civilians? What would have happened if the US took that type of attitude toward Japan during WW2? A whole lot more innocent people would have died.

I already told you, send in the Mossad and shit. Obviously Lebanon's non-Hezbollah defence forces weren't up to snuff with a country with a nation that has wiped the floor with much bigger armies and nations when it was the only country for to help itself, not to mention that have one of the most efficient army in the world. You can't make me belive that they couldn't pull a few assination or make a short, well aimed raid or something. Instead that went nuts and simply lobbed bombs everywhere, with no regards to whoever was underneath them.

Shit, Israel's tactic has basically been proven a failure now. All it has accomplished is weakened and destablized yet another and convinced the Lebanese people that Israel and America are there enemies and want to hurt. Not to mention that Hezbollah, while having lost a good amount of members, still have plenty of wealth and are using it to rebuild southern Lebanon while also maintaining that they're still out to destroy Israel ("you know, that country that killed alot of our countrymen, and devasted our homeland"). What do you think is gonna happen when the next election hits? I smell a repeat of what happened in the palestinian elections.

And nice going with the WWII analogy, considering Lebanon's was so fierce and powerful before the war started that it managed to conquer many Middle Eastern nations bigger that they are like Jordan, Syria, and Egypt, before Israel showed up to kick them all out (just like Japan did with much of with eastern Asia before America started going to war with them). Anyway I'm just glad that a cease-fire has finally been written up, after about 2 years of intesive fighting with the Lebanese army before deciding that they were way too tough, and decinding that they simply had to start lobbing bombs at pretty much anything taller than the ground itself in Southern Lebanon (because the Japanese had been fighting head to head in other nations the two had occupied for a very long time before they finally went after each other on Japan's territory).

Originally posted by free
I have no problem with Hezbollah targeting military personnel (who follow the Genevia Conventoin's rules and wear uniforms, unlike Hezbollah), but should the Israeli army run and hide behind women and children, then they would have to bomb that area to get to the military personnel. That wouldn't be Hezbollah's fault if that happened, it would be the Israeli army for hiding behind civilians. Hezbollah intentionally bombs civilian targets in Israel. When Israel kills innocent Lebanese, they mourn. When Hezbollah kills innocent Israelis, they celebrate.

Pure bullshit. I'm tired of people saying that Hezbollah is totally evil for merely using civilians as human shields (and I use the merely not because it isn't despicable, but because it's quite light compared to what happens next), but when Israel to kill them anyway, it's because 'they don't have a choice'. I say both are heinous for their callous views for Lebanese life and refusing to come out and fight each other rather than stay in their airplanes or buildings and bombing the other country's civilian. I state this once more: if you're going to condemn the hostage, why let the negotiator off the hook when he orders the killing of the hostage just to get at the hostage taker?

And I don't buy them mourning civilian deaths for a second. Remember that photo of that little girl writing those love messages on those missiles that were going to be used in Lebanon? Nevermind the fact that their idea of mourning is to blame Hezollah for the deaths and use it as an excuse to go further into Lebanon and step up the violence.

Originally posted by free
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/world/middleeast/28refugees.htm?

(you have to register to read the article, here's a snip of it)

Hezbollah came to Ain Ebel to shoot its rockets,” said Fayad Hanna Amar, a young Christian man, referring to his village. “They are shooting from between our houses.”

“Please,’’ he added, “write that in your newspaper.”

… Mr. Amar said Hezbollah fighters in groups of two and three had come into Ain Ebel, less than a mile from Bint Jbail, where most of the fighting has occurred. They were using it as a base to shoot rockets, he said, and the Israelis fired back.

One woman, who would not give her name because she had a government job and feared retribution, said Hezbollah fighters had killed a man who was trying to leave Bint Jbail.

“This is what’s happening, but no one wants to say it” for fear of Hezbollah, she said.


While I stand corrected, this merely makes Hezbollah and the IDF equal. One makes sure civilians can't escape so they have a shield, and one see's those civilians as a shield that's barely worth any effort not to kill. The IDF used a half-ass plan that didn't work in order to evacuate civilians. I'm not impressed by either.

Originally posted by free
Probably not, but I would bet that surrounding those kids were a lot of Hezbollah soldiers, who purposefully risked the lives of those children in an attempt to gain sympathy.

I've already answered this.

[RicochetShaw]

Originally posted by Vong
During all of the carnage, George W. Bush and Condaleza Rice sit and have dinner on August 1.

http://static.flickr.com/62/204006637_313ae2ca6b.jpg


LOL. And are you fasting during this ordeal?


Fucking useless thread.

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by Vong
Take want you want from these pictures. Only question if all of this is worth the lives of a handful of soldiers...
I stopped scrolling down from here. The fact that you persist and persist to ignore the actual reason behind this war just goes to show your indestructible ignorance. The capturing of the soldiers was merely the Casus belli. The purpose of the war was to deplete the threat of Hezbollah hovering over the lives of every innocent Israeli life.

Do you know what I take from these pictures? I take that Hezbollah are a bunch of cowardly bastards that use the Lebanese people as a human shield by hiding their weapons stashes and bases of operation inside civillian structures, residential buildings, hospitals, and the likes. But how you, Vong, fail to come to the same conclusions as I am is the very reason why Islamist fascism will ultimately win the jihad.

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by Vong
Yeah, they did a fantastic job on those children with red paint and ketchup.
You're missing the point, dear sir. I ask, do you see Israel staging and faking images? Do you see Israel reporting that a Hezbollah aircraft has been taken down the moment they see some ball of flaming metal fall out of the sky? How you fail to completely lose all credibility when seeing these staged images is completely beyond me. Looks like they learned some lessons from the Palestinians. Remember the beach bombardment incident which never happened? Or the alleged Israeli attack on a Red Cross ambulance that was actually a weapons transport? Or the numerous faked funerals? How can you possibly take these guys seriously?

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by MacReady
Then fucking kill Hezbollah!!! Christ, it can't be that complicated! Are any of those 30 kids who were offed in Qana part of Hezbollah? No? Then leave them the fuck alone and go after fucking hezbollah.
Do you actually think they haven't been fucking trying this whole time? It's kind of gard to destroy an organization that advocates geurilla warfare; has no organized chain of events and is instead composed of a bunch of small independent militias and acts using no organized strategy but total anarchy; does not have massive combat forces but small task forces of 5 or 6 spread out over a region of hundreds of square kilometers; doesn't use bunkers or trenches as hideouts but civillian apartments, hospitals, schools, mosques, and other such locations; has a system of underground tunnels so deep, so wide and so complicated it will blow your fucking mind, and spends most of its time HIDING, and not attacking anyone. If only it weren't that complicated. But fact of the matter is, every time Israel bombs Hezbollah, people like you start crying about all the civillians that get killed. Well I'm sorry, but it's kind of difficult to destroy Hezbollah if you people will whine about the humanitarian situation and the civillian casualties. Any hunch why Hezbollah haven't been destroyed already? Because had Israel actually used all of its firepower in order to deplete them, the number of Lebanese civillian casualties wouldn't be 1,000. It would be 100,000. It's time you stop being so naive and wake up to reality. It is most certainly not that simple to "kill Hezbollah". Because they use pretty much every dirty, inhumane, cowardly trick in the book in order to protect their own backsides.

You, along with pretty much every other leftist out there, also failed to mention that Hezbollah did not only capture two soldiers. They paralysed the whole half of a country, killed 50 and injured at least 1,400 Israeli civillians, displaced nearly 1 million civillians, killed 120 soldiers and wounded over 400... the list goes on. The fact that you exaggerate the Lebanese casualties and completely ignore the Israeli ones just goes to show how extremely biased you are.

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by Joshmo
Those are horrific photos indeed - and Israel should be condemed for such disproportionate violence in defending itself
Alright, commander in chief, please tell me how the fuck else we were supposed to defend ourselves? Or were we just supposed to turh the other cheek and sit quietly while Hezbollah arm themselves even more and execute a full-scale invasion of the country.

Honestly, the amount of naievity in this thread is mind-boggling...

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by MacReady
So by that standard you don't mind the fact that Hezbollah lauched hundreds upon hundreds of missiles into Israel in retaliation against a state that had?
Do you even know the difference between a defensive military missile attack and a terrorist missile attack blatantly and openly directed at civillians? Do you even care that the Hezbollah-launched rockets have absolutely no military defensive purpose whatsoever, and their sole purpose is to target and KILL Israeli civillians? Or did that fact accidentally slip your mind...

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by MacReady
While I stand corrected, this merely makes Hezbollah and the IDF equal. One makes sure civilians can't escape so they have a shield, and one see's those civilians as a shield that's barely worth any effort not to kill. The IDF used a half-ass plan that didn't work in order to evacuate civilians. I'm not impressed by either.
By far the most laughable statement I've read in this entire thread.

[echo_bravo]

Monotreme, thank GOD you post some much needed sense on this thread...it was needing it!

Again, hope you and your family/friends are safe.

[Monotreme]

Thank you, echo_bravo.

The bottom line is this, and this is directed specifically at Vong, MacReady and the other Hezbollah supporters in this thread. I could post pictures of exploded buses, coffee shops and restaurants in Israel with bodies of old people and children on the floor right here in this thread. While it would shock you, you'd all be missing the real point, the real crux of the matter, and the one thing that you two constantly persist to miss out on. The two groups of photos are NOT the same, and the difference is this. One is a series of pictures of civillians who, at a time of war, are involuntarily sacrificed by their own side, Hezbollah, who run and hide behind them in their houses, their schools, their hospitals, their mosques; who prevent from humanitarian aid to reach them and who threaten them if they try to flee. The other is a series of pictures of civillians who were deliberately, blatantly and directly targeted by suicide bombers or rockets. The immense number of Lebanese civillian deaths truly is shocking and tragic, but it is only as high as it is because of Hezbollah's cowardly tactics. Also, we all know that collateral damage is a tragic and unfortunate but ultimately inevitable side effect of war. But how you people fail to differentiate between this and the DELIBERATE targeting of innocent civillians by Hezbollah, Palestinian terrorists and whomever else... I just can't fathom it. And if you actually think that the IDF is targeting civillians, then you are indeed in a sad, strange and lonely place.

The difference between Israel and Lebanon is this. When Hezbollah rockets TARGETING CIVILLIANS displace a million Israeli civillians living in the north, the Israeli government arranges homes, hotel rooms, services, bomb shelters, insurance policies and damage payments; diverts funds to help rehabilitate businesses and farms that were damaged or shut down because of the war, and are supportive of their civillians telling them to remain strong. When Israeli bombings of Lebanon displace a million Lebanese civillians, the Lebanese government does absolutely nothing. These people are left on the streets with no food or shelter; the only help they receive is from external humanitarian organizations. The Lebanese government will not help them rebuild their homes, recuperate their lost farms and businesses, pay them damage returns and insurance. The Lebanese government is too busy bashing Israel and blaming Israel for all its problems to actually help its own civillians. Let's not even mention Hezbollah, who are supposedly fighting for the freedom of all these civillians that they go and run behind when Israel bombs them; hide their rockets in their homes, use public buildings and private homes as bases of operation; and in many ways involuntarily sacrifice these innocent civillians while all the while brainwashing them that it is for a just cause. And the only kind of "encouragement" these civillians get from their government and authorities is hate speech telling them that all of their problems are Israel's fault and that they should hate Israel. It's sad and tragic, but you'd have to be very naive not to realise that this is the truth, the reality of the situation. I've used this quote before, but once again I find it relevant. As Golda Meir said, "We will have peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us."

[Vong]

The fact that you persist and persist to ignore the actual reason behind this war just goes to show your indestructible ignorance.

What am I ignoring dude? I am not siding with either Hezbollah or Israel in this war, and I consider it your ignorance that you think I side with Hezbollah. I am siding with the hundreds of civilians killed on purpose by the Israeli military.

But how you, Vong, fail to come to the same conclusions as I am is the very reason why Islamist fascism will ultimately win the jihad.

I am siding with Islamic fundamentalists!?!?
LOL!!!!
What a horribly misdirected and misguided comment!
I think that's a new accusation I can add to my list of wrongful convictions.
I find it hard to believe that just because I am not siding with Israel or its civilians being killed, you outright claim I am a Islamic fundamentalist supporter. How short sighted are you? You have no idea how much you sound like Bush right now.

I'm going to excuse any suppositions you have on me or any other descenter to your opinion as a personal bias, being that you live in Israel. I can't really blame you for having a conviction such as this. However, I suggest you think harder on your accusations and not be quick to judge. Just because people do not support your side of the argument doesn't mean we are pro-terrorists. Far from it. I, like others on this board, like to play devil's advocates and promote fair and balanced arguments to the "other side". Generally this is all for the sake of argument, but in this case I see it neccesarily since the news is dominated with Jewish casualties and not Lebonese.

And on the subject, I find it really suspicious that while you think Hezbollah are staging and setting up horrendous pictures of civilian casualities, you believe that Israel is completely innocent and incapable of doing the same. Everyone has alot to gain in this war, and PR is crucial. And while I'm not suggesting that Israel is doing the exact same, they are doing their own in the ways of promoting Israel-support.

Please be open minded on the subject. There are others out here who have different opinions that yourself, but I think it is totally unfair to label anyone as (basically) a terrorist simply because they differ from your opinion.

[BubbaStrangelove]

I think people are missing Vong's initial point: No one likes seeing people who've been slaughtered.

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by Vong
I am siding with Islamic fundamentalists!?!?
LOL!!!!
What a horribly misdirected and misguided comment!
I think that's a new accusation I can add to my list of wrongful convictions.
I find it hard to believe that just because I am not siding with Israel or its civilians being killed, you outright claim I am a Islamic fundamentalist supporter. How short sighted are you? You have no idea how much you sound like Bush right now.
I did not imply that you are siding with islamic fundamentalists. What I did imply, though, is that you fail to realise just how fundamentally wrong these people are. From your messages, I derive that while you certainly do not support terror, you do give it the benefit of your doubt when it's disguised as a supposedly defensive act. Which is not an opinion I am particularly fond of. And the fact that you continue to post things like this:

I am siding with the hundreds of civilians killed on purpose by the Israeli military.
Is why I say you are ignorant. Because to actually believe that statement shows that there is something somewhat askew in your perspective of these events, and probably the world entire. If you actually represented both sides, I'd call you a humanitarian. But since I have never once seen you mention the Israeli civillian casualties, hundreds injured and millions displaced, nor does the fact that Hezbollah are deliberately targeting civillians seem to bother you at all... I label you biased and criticise your opinion.

What am I ignoring dude? I am not siding with either Hezbollah or Israel in this war, and I consider it your ignorance that you think I side with Hezbollah. I am siding with the hundreds of civilians killed on purpose by the Israeli military.


Generally this is all for the sake of argument, but in this case I see it neccesarily since the news is dominated with Jewish casualties and not Lebonese.

Are we even watching the same news? Because all I see on CNN and most of the other American news agencies is nothing short of a smear job on Israel and a commemoration for Hezbollah. Most of the rocket attacks on Israel weren't even reported, and for some reason, everybody seemed to forget to mention that the reason so many Lebanese civillians were killed was that Hezbollah used their homes as weapons caches. About the only thing the news talked about were the Lebanese casualties, and you still accuse it of being biased towards Israel? Please.

but I think it is totally unfair to label anyone as (basically) a terrorist simply because they differ from your opinion.
You go too far, sir. First it was "siding with Islamic fundamentalists", but now you say I basically called you a terrorist? This is just TOO much hyperbole for one person to handle :rolleyes:

[MacReady]

First of all, thanks for dragging a 2/3 week old thread out from the archives again.

Second, before I respond to your second-to-last post, I'll respond to something in your last one:

Originally posted by Monotreme
I did not imply that you are siding with islamic fundamentalists. What I did imply, though, is that you fail to realise just how fundamentally wrong these people are.

You go too far, sir. First it was "siding with Islamic fundamentalists", but now you say I basically called you a terrorist? This is just TOO much hyperbole for one person to handle :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Monotreme
The bottom line is this, and this is directed specifically at Vong, MacReady and the other Hezbollah supporters in this thread.

Now, onto the rest of your post:

Originally posted by Monotreme
I could post pictures of exploded buses, coffee shops and restaurants in Israel with bodies of old people and children on the floor right here in this thread. While it would shock you, you'd all be missing the real point, the real crux of the matter, and the one thing that you two constantly persist to miss out on. The two groups of photos are NOT the same, and the difference is this. One is a series of pictures of civillians who, at a time of war, are involuntarily sacrificed by their own side, Hezbollah, who run and hide behind them in their houses, their schools, their hospitals, their mosques; who prevent from humanitarian aid to reach them and who threaten them if they try to flee. The other is a series of pictures of civillians who were deliberately, blatantly and directly targeted by suicide bombers or rockets. The immense number of Lebanese civillian deaths truly is shocking and tragic, but it is only as high as it is because of Hezbollah's cowardly tactics. Also, we all know that collateral damage is a tragic and unfortunate but ultimately inevitable side effect of war. But how you people fail to differentiate between this and the DELIBERATE targeting of innocent civillians by Hezbollah, Palestinian terrorists and whomever else... I just can't fathom it. And if you actually think that the IDF is targeting civillians, then you are indeed in a sad, strange and lonely place.

Hezbollah is a heartless bunch of bastards run by a man who's suggested not only wiping Israel off the map but perhaps going after all jews on the face of the earth, not to mention that they have little qualm in taking Israeli civilian lives, or (at the very least) jeopardizing the lives of Lebanese civilians. Finally, while I disapprove of how Israel fought the war, they certainly weren't the ones to start it.

However I still see many flaws with how Israel fought the war. Here they are:

- Hezbollah may have tried to essentially take Lebanon hostage, however while they do hold some responsibility for taking a cheap and ruthless tactic, I don't see why they should carry the whole blame for civilian casaulties. At the end of the day, the IDF still carried out their bombing knowing there were people down there.

- As for Israeli civilians, they didn't deserve to die, but I side with Lebanon due to a greater casualties, displacements and destruction of property. Also, while Hezbollah did launch many rockets, they also offered a truce ("no bombs on us and no rockets on you"). Israel didn't bite. I know that trying to wipe them off from the face the earth was important for your country, but to me it suggested that the goverment of democratic and civilised Israel cared less about not only the lives of Lebanese but of their own citizens, people like you (think about that next time you call me bias) then a group of millitant thugs, at least on certain issues.

- As for my infamous comparison of each side being no better than the other and me living in a sick weird place or whatever the hell it is you called it, I will state that terrorism is disgusting because it kills innocent civilian. Key word here is innocent. I also oppose Israeli and American millitary ventures into Middle Eastern countries on most conditions. I believe that while the IDF is 'more innocent' than Hezbollah, they are worse on the grounds that they are a much more lethal force in the this conflict (Israel's lost only 44 civilians while Lebanon has suffered a stunning 1140 casautlies so far). Althought I will grant that this is because Hezbollah is just a bunch of un-coordinated fools and that Israel isn't really purposely going after civilians, the fact is when the IDF conducts a bombing, they know damn well they're likely going to kill innocent people when they let those bombs drop. So you see, while intent might make a difference, so does body count. Hezbollah wants thousands to be dead, but can only kill a few dozens, while the IDF wants only a few dozens dead, they end up killing thousands. Hence, I don't see either as that much better than the other. You can challenge my views, but I just spent a good deal of time writing that last part up and don't want some shit like "that's totally laughable" as a response.

Originally posted by Monotreme
The difference between Israel and Lebanon is this. When Hezbollah rockets TARGETING CIVILLIANS displace a million Israeli civillians living in the north, the Israeli government arranges homes, hotel rooms, services, bomb shelters, insurance policies and damage payments; diverts funds to help rehabilitate businesses and farms that were damaged or shut down because of the war, and are supportive of their civillians telling them to remain strong. When Israeli bombings of Lebanon displace a million Lebanese civillians, the Lebanese government does absolutely nothing. These people are left on the streets with no food or shelter; the only help they receive is from external humanitarian organizations. The Lebanese government will not help them rebuild their homes, recuperate their lost farms and businesses, pay them damage returns and insurance. The Lebanese government is too busy bashing Israel and blaming Israel for all its problems to actually help its own civillians. Let's not even mention Hezbollah, who are supposedly fighting for the freedom of all these civillians that they go and run behind when Israel bombs them; hide their rockets in their homes, use public buildings and private homes as bases of operation; and in many ways involuntarily sacrifice these innocent civillians while all the while brainwashing them that it is for a just cause. And the only kind of "encouragement" these civillians get from their government and authorities is hate speech telling them that all of their problems are Israel's fault and that they should hate Israel. It's sad and tragic, but you'd have to be very naive not to realise that this is the truth, the reality of the situation. I've used this quote before, but once again I find it relevant. As Golda Meir said, "We will have peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us."

I feel this is alot like the stuff I just answered so I'll ask you this: who do you think won the war?

-Your country has now been demonized across the world

- The Islamic world has been pissed off even further (although not much, they hated your guts way before the war started)

- You've lost over nearly 50 civilians and over 100 soldiers

- Many of your norther towns and cities have been devasted, with half a million displaced people coming from it.

And for fucking what? Here's what came of the war:

- 2 kidnapped soldiers still haven't been returned.

- Hezbollah still alive, having stood their ground and making your invasion as messy, loud and ugly as possible.

- Lest I forget that they have a fortune and are re-building the nation you decimated, and while they may be soon to be disarmed if the U.N. resolution goes, at least 80% of both Sunnis and Christians in Lebanon supported them in the course of the war. Since they're a political party and will likely repair the countty and help it get back on it's feet, what do you think this will mean when the elections come again? Shit, why would Nasrallah need his terroristitic militants when he can use the much more legitimate Lebanese army instead. Which will likely mean another war between the two countries.

That's what I find most loathesome about this war, that all these people have been killed or had their lives ruined for jack shit. Forget the humantarian outlook, Israel military tactics failed. Period. It's like they were fighting Lebanon as if they were fighting the pre-80's invading Arab armies forces.

As for Meir's quote, judging by the fact that both sides keep killing each other children, the adults don't have to make a choice. Therein lies the problem.

God, that took forever to post.

[Monotreme]

I will not bother quoting specific citations, but the general gist of your post is that you side with Lebanon because the number of their innocent civillian deaths and the total devastation to their country is far greater than the damage done to Israel. And once again, I will repeat myself that the crux of the matter here, the real bottom line as to why I think your view is skewed is because you fail to differentiate the REASON behind the civillian deaths. Obviously, all loss of human life is tragic, but the death of one civillian who was killed on purpose is far more tragic and disturbing to me than the deaths of 20 civllians who were killed by accident, as collateral damage in a war. Because collateral damage and civillian death are expected in any war, and specifically in one in which the opposing side uses civillians as a human shield. But the mindset of an enemy who is not out to deflect the army that protects you but is out to kill YOU, the innocent civillian... My mind can't even begin to comprehend.

As to the responsibility for the Lebanese deaths. I propose to you an alternate scenario. Let's say a car is driving fast towards a cross-walk. The car does not slow down, and the person standing next to you pushes you into the street. The car hits and kills you. Whose fault is it that you die? Although the car was the one that actuall did the killing, I think it's pretty obvious to me that the person who pushed you right into the moving car is the one to blame for your death.

Originally posted by MacReady
That's what I find most loathesome about this war, that all these people have been killed or had their lives ruined for jack shit. Forget the humantarian outlook, Israel military tactics failed. Period. It's like they were fighting Lebanon as if they were fighting the pre-80's invading Arab armies forces.
I will not deny this because I am as pissed off about it as you are. Yes, this war was for nothing, and no matter what international peace-keeping forces and regulations are deployed, I have no doubt that Hezbollah will re-arm, re-organize and there will be nothing to stop them from pulling shit like this again in a few years. But one should put things into perspective here. The blame for this fact should be placed on the United Nations and the international community. Had there not been so much pressure put on Israel to end the war, perhaps something productive could have actually derived of it. Fact of the matter is the operation was prematurely cut off, and while substantial damage was done to Hezbollah's infrastructure, they still have a large weapons capacity stored away somewhere that we didn't have enough time to get to, and now it's just sitting there, waiting to kill more innocent Israelis.

Who won the war? Obviously nobody won it. And Hezbollah sure as hell didn't win it - they suffered a very tough blow, and why their representatives are marching around talking about this whole ordeal as if they won the war is completely beyond me. Just their usual propoganda bullshit. But why was the war so inconclusive? You forget that the pre-80s invading Arab armies were just that - they were armies. They fought with tanks, airplanes and artillery. They wore uniforms. The fights occured on battlefields. They had tactics, organized operations, chains of command. Hezbollah are not an army. They are an anarchistic militia. Commands are not sent out through a chain, they are just aired on TV, and they are simple: Fire whatever rockets you have at wherever you want. This is not an army that wears uniforms and drives around in military vehicles. They use common transport trucks and cars, don't work in task forces or units but individual, independent groups of 2 or 3. They look like civillians. Hell, they ARE civillians, technically. And this is certainly not a very easy enemy to deal with.

And as to this comment:

Also, while Hezbollah did launch many rockets, they also offered a truce ("no bombs on us and no rockets on you"). Israel didn't bite. I know that trying to wipe them off from the face the earth was important for your country, but to me it suggested that the goverment of democratic and civilised Israel cared less about not only the lives of Lebanese but of their own citizens.
Hezbollah are a terrorist organization. No bombs on us and no rockets on you? Where would that lead us? That would not only give them leverage, it would give them an excuse to continue. Do you actually think they would keep any sort of agreement? This is an organization notorious for backstabbing, misleading and lying - just look at what it does to the people of Lebanon as opposed to what it tells them. What was to stop them from just pulling more shit like this in another few months or years? Sorry, that excuse won't cut it. And I don't see how pressing to continue a war whose sole purpose is to deplete the single most immediate and primary threat to all of Israel's citizens shows that the government cares less about Israeli citizens than it should.

[Vong]

Is why I say you are ignorant. Because to actually believe that statement shows that there is something somewhat askew in your perspective of these events, and probably the world entire. If you actually represented both sides, I'd call you a humanitarian. But since I have never once seen you mention the Israeli civillian casualties, hundreds injured and millions displaced, nor does the fact that Hezbollah are deliberately targeting civillians seem to bother you at all... I label you biased and criticise your opinion.

My views are obviously different on the situation, as are my opinion. But what I got from the 800 civilian casualties in Lebanon was that the attacks almost seemed deliberate. Both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International has evidence to suggest Israel targeted civilians. Now in regards to what you believe (that Hezbollah are hiding in civilian homes) I have seen no evidence of such an occurance. And its quite the contrary to Hezbollah's tactics; their fighters are terrified of civilians. Tthey would be afraid of the possibility of "insiders" hinting to the Israeli military of their presense. Hezbollah would not risk the possibility of being discovered in order to get grounds on the Israeli offensive.

Are we even watching the same news? Because all I see on CNN and most of the other American news agencies is nothing short of a smear job on Israel and a commemoration for Hezbollah.

Yeah. Not in America and I wouldn't be caught dead watching CNN.

You go too far, sir. First it was "siding with Islamic fundamentalists", but now you say I basically called you a terrorist? This is just TOO much hyperbole for one person to handle

Uh huh...

But how you, Vong, fail to come to the same conclusions as I am is the very reason why Islamist fascism will ultimately win the jihad.

The bottom line is this, and this is directed specifically at Vong, MacReady and the other Hezbollah supporters in this thread

If these aren't exagerations on your part...:rolleyes:

[Monotreme]

Originally posted by Vong
If these aren't exagerations on your part...:rolleyes:
Guilty as charged. I committed the single greatest sin of discussion, and that is getting too passionate and venting anger. It was a mistake on my part, and I appologize.

But seriously, if you cast doubt on the cold hard fact that Hezbollah hide rockets and rocket launchers in civillian buildings and homes... then I don't really know what to say. There are hundreds of videos recorded by spy planes and amateur photographers of trucks with rocket launchers on them lumbering out of private residences, launching rocketrs and returning back into the garages or parking spaces of these private residences. I'm really too tired and too busy right now to look for some, but if you are interested I recommend you perform such a search yourself. It just may open your eyes.

[Vong]

Originally posted by EVILxxx
This post also reminds me of a joke that a comedian named Todd Barry said once.

Where's the after show party people? You wanna go see Farenheight 9/11? The fucking audiences at that movie, seriously. I mean he could have had a scene that said On September 10th George W. Bush took a sip of water. 'Oh fuck! What an asshole.'

The picture of Bush and Condy eating at the table reminds me of the U2 song Sunday Bloody Sunday:

And it's true we are immune
When fact is fiction and TV reality
And today the millions cry
We eat and drink while tomorrow they die.

[echo_bravo]

Originally posted by Vong
The picture of Bush and Condy eating at the table reminds me of the U2 song Sunday Bloody Sunday:

And it's true we are immune
When fact is fiction and TV reality
And today the millions cry
We eat and drink while tomorrow they die.

LOL
Of course it would remind you of that:rolleyes:

[BubbaStrangelove]

Originally posted by Vong
The picture of Bush and Condy eating at the table reminds me of the U2 song Sunday Bloody Sunday:

And it's true we are immune
When fact is fiction and TV reality
And today the millions cry
We eat and drink while tomorrow they die.


Funny that you use the song to illustrate your contempt toward Condi and Bush when Bono insists that despite being about the Northern Ireland struggle, that love is the central theme of the song.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

I say we leave Bono out of this, he has enough to worry about with single-handedly feeding every starving African child.