The Joker News

[Jig Saw 666]

Director Christopher Nolan said in a inreview for Mean Magazine that "I suppose in loose terms I can say it’s about things having to get worse before they get better." and he said he has gotten alot of his ideas of the Joker from The Killing Joke and the Joker's first two apprences in the comics. So I hope this means a origin story like the Joker being a stand up comdian and having to join the mob and also becoming Red Hood. And when Nolan says things will get worse does that mean more people will die. For example Katie Holmes, Gordan's wife, Harvey Dents wife, and Harvey getting deformed. I hope so and I hope we see more villains like the first maybe 4 could be enough.

What do you guys think?

Red Hood
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/Batman_UnderTheHood.jpg

The Killing Joke Joker
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/32/Killingjoke.JPG

[bigred760]

I don't know much . . . anything - really . . . about the Joker's origins in the comic books. But the more I hear Chris Nolan talk about it (I read that interview bit too :D), the more encouraged I am about it. I'm even warming up to Heath Ledger in the role.

[cocksmokinclerk]

Originally posted by bigred760
I don't know much . . . anything - really . . . about the Joker's origins in the comic books. But the more I hear Chris Nolan talk about it (I read that interview bit too :D), the more encouraged I am about it. I'm even warming up to Heath Ledger in the role.

right there with ya, my thoughts exactly

[DarkKnight81]

I would love it if the Joker started off as the Red Hood but I dont think it will happen because they already established the persona of the Joker with the card at the end of Begins. However, I do think Joker will kill Rachel and Dent's wife, not so sure about Gordon's wife but that would add some emotion to the character.

[Jig Saw 666]

In the comic the Joker killed Gordan's wife and paralyzed his daughter Barber but from Batman Begins Barber is only a baby and in the movie th Joker is in his late 20's. I hope they show the Joker's origins threw flash backs like they did Batman.

[Hack]

Is the Joker going to be the only villain in the next film? I hope so.

[The Young Son]

I don't know much about the joker's origins either, but I must admit I am getting more and more excited about this.

[Jig Saw 666]

Originally posted by Hack
Is the Joker going to be the only villain in the next film? I hope so.


Supposely the Penguin and some new mob boss is suppose to take Falcone's place.

[Mr. Gray]

The Killing Joke is a great story, but The Joker's supposed origins in that book are........hmmmm.......what's the word I'm looking for.......oh yeah, fucking lame. I don't want to establish an emotional bond with the goddamn Joker. your not supposed to feel sorry for him, your supposed to hate him, fear him, loathe him. Giving him a background like that of a down on his luck comedian who simply snaps would take away from making The Joker "darker" in this film. I'd much prefer if his history was never touched upon, or if they do, they come up with something else that doesn't make him look like a victim.

[Hack]

the penguin is supposed to be in the movie too? how's this going to happen?

[Mr. Gray]

The Penguin is going to be an arms dealer, but it's only going to be a little more than a cameo apprently.

[adamjohnson]

Originally posted by Mr. Gray
The Penguin is going to be an arms dealer, but it's only going to be a little more than a cameo apprently.

He had a cameo in Begins too. He was one of the inamtes in Arkham.

The Penquin will most likely NOT be a 'freak.' He'll just be a short fat arms dealer in a tuxedo all the time.

Black Mask is going to replace Falcone.

Scarecrow might make an appearance.

A young hotshot ADA named Harvey Dent is going to help BAtman and Gordon track down joker and be 'changed' by all the horrific tings he experiences along the way.

That, and some acid to the face.

[adamjohnson]

Originally posted by Mr. Gray
The Killing Joke is a great story, but The Joker's supposed origins in that book are........hmmmm.......what's the word I'm looking for.......oh yeah, fucking lame. I don't want to establish an emotional bond with the goddamn Joker. your not supposed to feel sorry for him, your supposed to hate him, fear him, loathe him. Giving him a background like that of a down on his luck comedian who simply snaps would take away from making The Joker "darker" in this film. I'd much prefer if his history was never touched upon, or if they do, they come up with something else that doesn't make him look like a victim.

It looks like his origin has already been established, judging by the joker card. So I dont know whats going to happen tehre.

[Jig Saw 666]

Apparently their probably going to do flashbacks like Batman and if they do make as feel sorry for the Joker it will probably only be for the beginning then he'll turn into a psychopath when he finds out his wife died. And as for Black Mask I would love to see him without the mask and then when he's robbing a bank he wears it. And if they do have the Scarecrow return he'll probably have a even smaller role unless he works with the Joker or Mob. I would love to see a team up between Joker and Scarecrow just like the comics so we know were the Joker got his laughing chemical.

[Hack]

you know, the more everyone is talking about this movie the more i have an itch to see it. i'm putting BB in right now.

[echo_bravo]

I have absolutely no background on the comics but I really liked Batman Begins and The Dark Knight is looking like it is going to kick ass! Nolan seems to really know what he is doing.

[DarkKnight81]

I'd like to see the Joker be portrayed as one of Falcone's old men that Scarecrow had gased so he could get him into the Asylum and then of course he escaped at the end of Begins and has now just lost his fucking mind and is going on a killing spree, including the Scarecrow for drugging him.

[bucket]

Looking forward to TDK - Hope its as good as the first one. Wouldnt mind if Catwoman made an apearance.

[Jig Saw 666]

Originally posted by DarkKnight81
I'd like to see the Joker be portrayed as one of Falcone's old men that Scarecrow had gased so he could get him into the Asylum and then of course he escaped at the end of Begins and has now just lost his fucking mind and is going on a killing spree, including the Scarecrow for drugging him.

That's a good idea but at the end of BB the Joker never went to Araham that we know of because he robbed a place and killed two people already and he already has the joker playing card as his calling card. And Nolan will be working with Jerry Robinson (creator of the Joker) on TDK . The Dark Knight will be the best comicbook movie to date.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

Originally posted by Mr. Gray
The Killing Joke is a great story, but The Joker's supposed origins in that book are........hmmmm.......what's the word I'm looking for.......oh yeah, fucking lame. I don't want to establish an emotional bond with the goddamn Joker. your not supposed to feel sorry for him, your supposed to hate him, fear him, loathe him. Giving him a background like that of a down on his luck comedian who simply snaps would take away from making The Joker "darker" in this film. I'd much prefer if his history was never touched upon, or if they do, they come up with something else that doesn't make him look like a victim.
Yeah, I agree with you on that one. I'd prefer it if they skip the origin stuff and just portrayed him as a sadistic, psychotic nutjob with a twisted sense of humour. Although as adamjohnson pointed out, they've already kind of set up his character in the last 60 seconds of Begins, so (hopefully) they may not bother with a backstory anyway.

I wonder if they'd have the cojones to include (or at least mention) the story from the comics where he hands out poisoned cotton candy to kids at an amusement park. I'm sure that'd be a dark enough subplot for the next one.

[Jig Saw 666]

Personally I would love to see the Joker and his relationship with his wife and how he worked at the chemical plant and how he jumped in the chemicals because he believed he had nothing to live for. Then when he returns and finds out his wife isn't dead and he sees that he is now scard for life with the apperance of a clown he flips out and goes on a killing rapage to all the people that made him what he was first. 1.His Wife, 2.The Police,3. The Mob, 4. Gotham City,and the Batman. And when he gets down with every else all he has left is Batman but he finds himself wanting to kill people along the way including Rachel, Dent's Wife, and a few other people like the commishiner. And I would love to see the Joker beat the crap out of Batman then when he pulls out his gun he finds himself thanking Batman for what he's made him and decides to count to 5 and let the Batman go. Police come Joker gives himself up and scars Harvey and escapes Araham. And yes kills more people. I hope he looks something like this.

Before
http://www.batmantas.com/img/napier.jpg

and After
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Jokerkillingjoke.png

[DarkKnight81]

So how about a list of the people we think The Joker might kill in The Dark Knight. Here's a list of some previously mentioned:
-Gilda Dent
-Rachel Dawes
-Commisioner Loeb
-Gordon's wife or daughter
-The Scarecrow
-His own wife

Any other ideas??? Perhaps Flass? I just hope he kills a lot of people and has a lot of fun doing it.

[Jig Saw 666]

Here's my list of people I hope he kills. Because like Nolan said things have to get worse before they get better.
-Gilda Dent
-Rachel Dawes
-Commisioner Loeb
-Gordon's wife
-Black Mask
-His Wife
-His unborn child
-Carmine Falcone
-Lucius Fox (maybe in the 3rd one)
-Judge Faden
-Flass
-Scarecrow
-Homeless Man
- Rutger Hauer

[soda]

Originally posted by Mr. Gray
The Killing Joke is a great story, but The Joker's supposed origins in that book are........hmmmm.......what's the word I'm looking for.......oh yeah, fucking lame. I don't want to establish an emotional bond with the goddamn Joker. your not supposed to feel sorry for him, your supposed to hate him, fear him, loathe him. Giving him a background like that of a down on his luck comedian who simply snaps would take away from making The Joker "darker" in this film. I'd much prefer if his history was never touched upon, or if they do, they come up with something else that doesn't make him look like a victim.

quick 2 cents.

The BIG reason why the Killing Joke is so popular as an origin story for the Joker really has nothing to do with how good a story it is. The reason why the Killing Joke is so popular, amongst hard core comic fans, is because of a key line the Joker himself utters in that book:

"the past, yes, the past, well, sometimes I remember the past one way, and other times, I remember it another, if I do have a past, I prefer it be multiple choice."

In other words, the Killing Joke is the origin story of the Joker, as told by the Joker, therefore, everything in it falls under the banner of "unreliable witness",.and all of it can be accepted, or rejected, as the reader chooses. Don't like a part of the story? That's the part where the Joker was lying. In many ways, this makes it the perfect Joker origin story, one that explains nothing, and in which everyone is free to walk away with their own interpretation. Exactly something the Joker would do.

that is the genius of the Killing Joke, oh, that and it's also the book where Barbara Gordon gets shot through the back. Poor babs, everyone loved her except for Alan Moore and DC editorial. Cassy was good, but Cassy wasn't half the bat-girl that Babs was, and isn't a tenth of the brilliant mastermind that Oracle is.

[bigred760]

Originally posted by Jig Saw 666
Here's my list of people I hope he kills. Because like Nolan said things have to get worse before they get better.
-Gilda Dent
-Rachel Dawes
-Commisioner Loeb
-Gordon's wife
-Black Mask
-His Wife
-His unborn child
-Carmine Falcone
-Lucius Fox (maybe in the 3rd one)
-Judge Faden
-Flass
-Scarecrow
-Homeless Man
- Rutger Hauer

You HOPE these people die?!?! Wow! That's a lot of victims. The only one I'd be upset at is Lucius Fox - he's gotta stick around.

[Jig Saw 666]

Or he should get shot but not killed.

[Weapon X]

I'd like to point you all to a fan film I found recently called "Patient J" (http://www.batinthesun.com/movies.html) directed by Aaron Schoenke; it centers on, of course, The Joker and a psychologist interviewing him at Arkham Asylum. It's about 35 minutes long, it's very well made, it features a number of images from stories like The Killing Joke and A Death in the Family (the one where fans voted whether or not Robin dies)...and if Chris Nolan's Joker resembles this in any way (or at least a cross between this and the Joker in Batman: Dead End), I'd say we're in good shape.

The prosthetics looks cartoonish but at the same time oddly natural, and his makeup (aside from the whiteface) is less intense than you might expect. The actor goes out of his way to sound like Mark Hamill (voice of Joker in the animated series), which is a smart move if you ask me.

[Mr. Gray]

yeah, soda, i was gonna make that point about The Joker not even remembering his own origin, so thus the one in KJ could be not true...

oh yeah, and don't forget that he molested Barbara Gordon too. ;)

[Agent of God !]

Hello Everyone,

Like MR.GRAY said (And I agree with him) let’s just hope the brilliant Christopher Nolan & Co. don’t go into writing and showing us Jack Napier aka the Joker as being a sort of victim in the upcoming Darknight. I had this problem with the early Batman films, where Tim Burton & co or Joel S. always went about showing how sad and tragic the villain’s lives and transformations had been. You (I) always sort of think well he/she was never happy and had a rough time, what a sad person.

The Penguin was abandoned at birth; too monstrous for his parent’s love. Catwoman, the Riddler and Poison Ivy were what people call lonely reject and losers; Two Face lost half his face to acid while you know all about Mr. Freeze’s melancholy. You truly cannot fear characters like that but relate to their problem, feel pity for them and wish Batman reached out to them other than with violence. I mean when, like me you reach a point where you consider the well-being of supposedly evil characters in a film, there is a problem. Nolan made Begins in a way that you wanted Falcone, scarecrow and even Raz Al Goul out no matter what because they had every thing going for them, were all enjoying their lives in crime and in general.

As far as killing wives go, I believe that killing Rachel would be the best idea the screen writer(s) could come up with. It would link Batman and Joker on a more personal level, like it did when in Begins the true enemy revealed himself to be Raz Al Goul the man who trained, trusted and for a short while befriended Bruce Wayne. If Joker kills Rachel it will have that same level of impact between the two. Arch enemies for life.

Also the problem that I had with the early Batman films, a problem that Mr. Nolan wasn’t able to avoid or dodge in Batman Begins 10/10 (Although to me it’s the best film of 2005) is the need for Batman villains to rely on a gang or henchmen. I wish one was strong enough and bright enough (See Bane and Knightfall, but he was mocked as Poison ivy’s mindless and stupid bodyguard) to work alone and fight batman. Spiderman my favorite super hero has a lot of that.

Hey! How do you guys (gals) print those nice pictures with your posts???

Agent out!
:cool:

[Jig Saw 666]

Well we will most likely get a origin for the Joker. And for other villains Nolan is trying to combine old and new villains so in the new one I would love to see these villains.
The Dark Knight:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/MikeDeodatoJoker.jpg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a5/Scarecrow_batman.jpg



http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/622/622304/the-best-worst-batman-villains-20050603023029862.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/Zsas.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/Bat636.jpg

[soda]

Okay, I have to ask: what is the fascination with Black Mask? The guy was never anything more than DC's attempt to copy Marvel's very popular villian the red skull. Don't believe me? Take a look:

http://membres.lycos.fr/nakorourou/hpbimg/redskull.gif

They aren't that different, change the name, the color of the skull, and presto, there you are. However, whereas the Red Skull is a total bad-ass who routinely challenges Captain America, and has that whole Nazi thing going, Black Mask is just an empty suit. DC editorial reached the same conclusion, and had him offed by Catwoman before the last crisis. Black Mask was the mastermind behind 'War Games' the worst excuse for a crossover in modern comic book history, that piece of bile nearly torpodoed all the bat-books, and is the fulcrum of the whole "bat-dick" phase the permeated between HUSH and OYL, when the bat-offiices were throwing darts at a board to see what would stick. Black Mask is the worst Batman villian of them all, a cheap knockoff of a beloved Marvel villian, without any of the later's charms and twisted machinations.

[Iacon5]

can some one fill me in please?
from what i know the red hood wasn't the joker, but was a false identity of robin 2 (jason todd) after he somehow cam back to life and became the red hood to beat the shit out of the joker and batman.
but then i only brouse the issues once or twice a year...

[Mr. Gray]

Originally posted by Iacon5
can some one fill me in please?
from what i know the red hood wasn't the joker, but was a false identity of robin 2 (jason todd) after he somehow cam back to life and became the red hood to beat the shit out of the joker and batman.
but then i only brouse the issues once or twice a year...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hood

[soda]

Originally posted by Iacon5
can some one fill me in please?
from what i know the red hood wasn't the joker, but was a false identity of robin 2 (jason todd) after he somehow cam back to life and became the red hood to beat the shit out of the joker and batman.
but then i only brouse the issues once or twice a year...

Welcome to Jeph Loeb comics, as interpreted by Judd Winnick. This is the kinda thing that happens when a fool like Winnick is given too long a leash by the powers that be at DC editorial. To encapsulate:

The red Hood - may or may not be the Joker's original criminal ID. According to the Untold Legend of the batman, the red hood was the person who fell into the chemical vat and emerged as the joker.

Years later, Jason Todd (robin two), borrowed the first ID of his killer as part of his plan for revenge on the Joker and Batman. Todd is the current Red Hood.

The Red Skulll is a marvel villian who fights Captain America. Black Mask is a Batman villian who rose to prominence during "war games" and was offed by Catwoman shortly thereafter. Hope that clears everything up, any other questions? Oh...... there is one other thing, how Jason Todd (robin two) came back to life, well, you see, Superboy Prime punched the wall of his paradise dimension, and......then there was sort of a crisis....and Alexander Luthor rebuilt the anti-monitor's galatic tuning fork, and....Jason Todd got hit by a continuity wave, and came back to life. See? It makes perfect sense.

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by Agent of God !
[B]Hello Everyone,

Like MR.GRAY said (And I agree with him) let’s just hope the brilliant Christopher Nolan & Co. don’t go into writing and showing us Jack Napier aka the Joker as being a sort of victim in the upcoming Darknight. I had this problem with the early Batman films, where Tim Burton & co or Joel S. always went about showing how sad and tragic the villain’s lives and transformations had been. You (I) always sort of think well he/she was never happy and had a rough time, what a sad person.



The thing is, it's important for these characters to have tragic pasts. Batman's villains are supposed to mirror himself. Batman suffered tragedy but went on to fight crime. Many of his rogues suffer great tragedies but go on to be criminals and murderers.

The Joker is the same way. The Killing Joke gives a tragic view of the Joker, and not only that but we know that the Joker can actually be quite smart (but is often hindered by his...maniacal ways). Hell, he was quite the chemist to be able to make his laughing gas back in his early days.

I'm not saying make the Joker Jack Napier all over again, but give us a reason to feel somewhat sorry for him in the beginning. It is important to see what happens to these rogues when tragedy occurs to them but compare it to the tragedy that happened to Bruce Wayne.

[Agent of God !]

Hello!

What I was saying earlier about the Batman rogues gallery is that those bad guys seen in Batman 1 through 4 have all gone through great tragedy and loss while in Batman Begins none of them (perhaps Raz losing his wife) seem to have gone personal devastation yet it does not take away any of their impact on us or the story or on Batman himself.

It is logical to assume that there are many plausible reasons for a character to choose crime other than a difficult past. I think that it is this diversity in motives that make a concept interesting and I will gladly buy Jack Napier/ Joker as a victim turned villain because in Begins that was not the main issue for any of the antagonists (perhaps for Raz, vaguely).

Agent out!

[Jig Saw 666]

Black Mask and Red Skull do look the same but they are two very different characters Black Mask was more of a Bruce Wayan villain then a Batman villain and that's what made Begins so cool Ra's Al Ghul attacked Bruce Wayan so did Falcone. Scarecrow was the only one who wanted to attack Batman directly. So the Joker needs to have a origin so we can fell sorry for him but later as we see his change from a sane man to an insane clown. And the whole thing about DC copying off of Marvel with Red Skull I bet Marvel copyed more from DC then DC took from them.

[soda]

Originally posted by Jig Saw 666
Black Mask and Red Skull do look the same but they are two very different characters Black Mask was more of a Bruce Wayan villain then a Batman villain and that's what made Begins so cool Ra's Al Ghul attacked Bruce Wayan so did Falcone. Scarecrow was the only one who wanted to attack Batman directly. So the Joker needs to have a origin so we can fell sorry for him but later as we see his change from a sane man to an insane clown. And the whole thing about DC copying off of Marvel with Red Skull I bet Marvel copyed more from DC then DC took from them.

No, Black Mask was a hugely crappy villian, who starred in the worst Batman comic of all time, That's WHY he was shot by Catwoman, so that DC could be rid of him. People who think that Marvel copied more off of DC than vice-versa need to sit down, and understand that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby invented most of modern comics with 60s Marvel. Marvel has been the industry leader, and DC the followerfor just about my entire life (modern era, those roles have reversed, but that's only the last couple of years, right now, DC is the industry leader, and it is MAINLY because it's moving away from the garbage of it's past, like copying Marvel characters, and towards a much better creative approach). As for companys copying, both companies do it an awful lot, that's because many of the people who work for DC are the same people who work for Marvel. The running joke is that Keith Giffen is the only person in town who knows how Crisis, 52, civil war, and annihilation all end, because he's working on all of them (he actually is, and he does). Thirty years ago, the great Jack Kirby sold the Eternals to Marvel, then, he turned right around the very next week and sold the EXACT same concept, with the name changed, to DC as "the new Gods". Jack Kirby published the exact same story at both companies and got paid twice, he ripped himself off. "hey isn't this the same thing as the Eternals comic you gave to marvel last week?" Kirby (thinking quickly) "noooo, it's the the new Gods, yeah, that's it, and these are the eterna--- no new gods, and those are the deviants, um...err..residents of apokolips, yeah, that's it!" Note: he only got away with it because he was Jack Kirby, and because he could, I do not recommend it.

[Jig Saw 666]

First of all Black Mask is not the worse Batman villain there are plenty of those Mad Hatter, Maxie Zeus, Calender Man, and The Ventriloquist & Scarface. Marvel started alot I will admit that but who started sidekicks who started superhero team ups DC has much darker characters then Marvel they have Vertigo and Wildstorm. I'm a big fan of both Marvel and DC are wonderful companies but Marvel almost went bankrupt so many times due to not being able to sell enough comics. And Marvel copied off of DC with groups of heros Fantastic Four. And Marvel ripped off the X-men from Doom Patrol.

[soda]

Originally posted by Jig Saw 666
And Marvel ripped off the X-men from Doom Patrol.

which DC turned right back around, and copied off of for the New Teen Titans and the Legion of Superheroes, and which Marvel turned right back around and copied for the New Warriors. This is an endless Chicken-and-the-egg argument, It all comes from two kids from Ohio named Jerry Seigel and Joe Schuster, when you really boil it down, everything is a copy of Action Comics #1.

Originally posted by Jig Saw 666
First of all Black Mask is not the worse Batman villain there are plenty of those Mad Hatter, Maxie Zeus, Calender Man, and The Ventriloquist & Scarface.

Read "war games", the single most hideously bad Batman comic ever published. Tell me if the plot behind that makes any sense. I'm a vet, of many many, many stories, some horrible, some passable, and some just downright sad, and war games is hands down the single worst thing I've ever read. It's also Black Mask's story, so no, I'm sorry, there *aren't* any worse Batman villians. Have you read "Secret Six"? Mad Hatter is cool. Have you watched the creepy Batman TAS episode? ventriloquist is cool. Maxie Zeus? The Batman TAS episode was passable, and his comic appearances are always good for yucks. However, I fail to see anything about Black Mask whatsoever, he hasn't had one good story, that I've read, and what I have was the most godawful piece of puke you've seen. "War Games" is the Batman and Robin of Batman comics: the book that nearly sank Batman.

Originally posted by Jig Saw 666
Marvel started alot I will admit that but who started sidekicks who started superhero team ups DC has much darker characters then Marvel they have Vertigo and Wildstorm. I'm a big fan of both Marvel and DC are wonderful companies but Marvel almost went bankrupt so many times due to not being able to sell enough comics.

You need to research before you post. Bringing up the mid-90s deflate, and the marvel Bankruptcy is like talking about the American economy during the Great Depression. Yeah, Marvel filed, but EVERYONE almost did in those days, the entire industry almost disappeared in the mid-90s, due to a perfect storm of economic conditions. DC got bailed out, and bought out, by Warner, that's why they're owned by the WB today. It has nothing to do with the ability to sell a comic book. Look at the sports card market right now, they're making the same mistakes comic book companies did ten years ago, you used to see kids playing and collecting sports cards all the time, no more. The industry is just now getting back on it's feet, and has entered a golden age where the quality has soared. Even during the "bust" cycle, by any sales measure you want to use, Marvel has always been the industry leader, ever since the 60s when Marvel first passed DC with Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. DC has, very recently, bested Marvel a few times, and is, I think the creative leader of the industry right now. For the record, most of my list is DC, and vertigo stuff, and I only buy seven or eight Marvel books a month. It's true DC invented a lot of the industry, like with sidekicks, and the secret ID, etc., but Lee Kirby and Ditko re-invented it in Silver Age marvel. Most of what we think of as "comics" comes from there.

[electriclite]

Originally posted by Agent of God !
Hello!

What I was saying earlier about the Batman rogues gallery is that those bad guys seen in Batman 1 through 4 have all gone through great tragedy and loss while in Batman Begins none of them (perhaps Raz losing his wife) seem to have gone personal devastation yet it does not take away any of their impact on us or the story or on Batman himself.

It is logical to assume that there are many plausible reasons for a character to choose crime other than a difficult past. I think that it is this diversity in motives that make a concept interesting and I will gladly buy Jack Napier/ Joker as a victim turned villain because in Begins that was not the main issue for any of the antagonists (perhaps for Raz, vaguely).

Agent out!

If you listen to the commentary for BTAS, especialy the episode entitled "House & Garden" where it looks like Poison Ivy has settled down and turned away from crime. The creators made this great observation that what all the villains in Batman's rogue gallery have in common is that they all wanted the things that everyone wants, i.e. love money, family, etc the part where they differentiate themselves from every one else and become insane is that they want all that, but on their own terms.

And in a way Batman is just the same as them, which is the great irony in the struggle. Batman wants justice, but his way.

I like how at the end of the film Gordon mentions "escalation" and the effect of having Batman has on the city, on the people and the criminals. I remember reading an interview with Greg Rucka, who had written Huntress: Cry for Blood, and was asked why Batman hated the Huntress so much and he explained that she scares the shit out of Batman because she is a result of HIS "holy work". In Rucka's version of her backstory, she was directly inspired by Batman to become a vigilante. And to some degree he's had a hand in creating some criminals by his actions.

At some point, most likely the third film, it'd be great to have the film based on that theme, how Batman is tied with all those that he fights against.








"Poison Ivy: I meant it when I said I wanted a family that loves me... I just wanted it on my terms."

[Danger^Cart]

I was currently in attendance of the prestigious AMYA (Alaska Military Youth Academy) hating life, bored of my surroundings, and being driven crazy by the incessant buzz of instructors and cadets around me, when I picked up the paper and was abruptly and perhaps dangerously (They say you don't stick someone who's suffering from hypothermia in a warm bath, for danger of shock, kind of like someone who's been isolated from any movie news for 5 solid months being shot in the head with their most pertanent, dearest information) exposed to the fact that Heath Ledger has apparently been selected for the role of the Joker.

Well, I am now a graduate of that fine (and by fine I mean about as fine as a Jerry Bruckheimer/Michael Bay collaboration....as in very, very shitty) and am free. However, this is kind of spoiled by the current frame of mind im in, barraged by such questions as what the hell happened to Paul Bettany? What is Nolan thinking? Will Jake and Heath have sex in Batman as well? Is there pudding?

WHAT IS GOING ON?! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Hey everybody, good to be back. Too bad I can't stay, and am going to pull a Kurt Cobain all over the wall behind me, because of gay cowboys and pudding. My suicide note will include the disarming codes to the bomb I'm about to plant in WarnerBros Studios, however, it will be about four days late.

Shit.

(Obnoxious MTV shoutout to electiclite and all my other damies)

[Hack]

I don't think Jake is going to be in BB buddy!

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Yeesh. You would think Heath Ledger only had one role that people know of.

[Danger^Cart]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
Yeesh. You would think Heath Ledger only had one role that people know of.

I'm just givin him a hard time. I really don't think he's right for the role, honestly, and cant imagine why the Paul Bettany thing fell through, considering he is a fantastic actor, looks the part, and is British to agree with Nolans casting politics.

I just think this is going to be...interesting with Heath in the role. Perhaps not in a good way.

[Agent of God !]

Hello,

I must admit my surprise at the news of Ledger being chosen to play The Joker. Seeing Jim Carrey’s performance in Batman Forever, I always felt he could’ve done a nice job at portraying Jack Napier’s alter ego. Jack Nicholson has this sort of arrogant charisma and frivolous walk and approach that suited the role; he sort of seems to act like the character in real life. Willem Dafoe (been in Spidey already) and John malkovich could also have pulled it off.

There is a dry and stiff seriousness about Heath that seems to go against what the character stands for or is about. But Nolan is no dummy, like Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher often were. The only choice I really didn’t approve in Begins was Kathie Holmes’; she seemed way too young for Bale, her acting was unconvincing and poor. I am confident that Ledger is a potentially good choice, Nolan must’ve seen something in heath that I or the average Batman fan doesn’t.

Agent out!

[silverman82]

Okay, so I wasn't that happy when I heard that Heath Ledger was cast as the next joker, but it sounds like Nolan has a pretty good idea of the direction he wishes to take the character, and plans to make him different than Jack's 1989 incarnation. Perhaps Singer should have tried something similar with Lex Luthor, and maybe that movie wouldn't have sucked so bad!