Are men becoming the oppressed sex? (is this in the right forum?)

[Kevin Lockard]

This has a little bit to do with television but the rant itself isn't about it, just a couple references. I don't know if this is the correct place to put this but it IS a rant nonetheless. I was gonna try to post it in the Politics section but it said I wasn't allowed. Anyhow, it's how men seem to be becoming the oppressed sex in today's world. I saw this on another forum and thought it was worth posting here SOMEWHERE because I agree strongly with it and I believe in it very much and I wanna see what everyone's thoughts are. I still don't think this may be in the right forum but there's nowhere else so here goes:






Domestic Violence

Society and media have completely failed to acknowledge the rise of violence towards men in the home. It has even been described as the “hidden side” of domestic violence, and ‘comedic’. Because of this attitude we have towards abuse on men, those who are suffering are reluctant to come forwards and tell someone. The levels of domestic violence are 25-35% higher for woman, but we also have to take into account the number of men suffering in silence because of the shame media put on those innocent victims.

Feminists have been campaigning since the 1960’s on woman’s rights. I’m fully supportive of that, but how far is enough? When do we say the line has been reached, and stop men becoming the oppressed sex? The saying “They only want it when it suits them” can relate to feminist views on equal rights. They want woman to be treated as equals to men, and rightfully so, but in the same respect, they refuse to acknowledge that violence is not just something woman suffer from.


Parental rights

In divorce proceedings, men have little to no rights in gaining access or custody of their children. This situation has gotten so bad that men in England have formed an alliance to try and gain equal rights for themselves in seeing their children. “Fathers For Justice” have done some bizarre things, mostly including dressing up as superhero’s, but their cause is getting recognition. Many people have said they’re a nuisance, but that’s what they said when woman marched to gain a vote 100 years ago. Nothing is fair unless it’s equal, and in terms of children, men should have the RIGHT to see their children as they see fit. If a man has no history of violence, then no woman should have right ask for supervised visitation. Men are not animals, and they don’t need to be supervised while looking after their kids.


Violence towards the opposite sex

We’re all brought up to not hit woman, and that’s an belief I’ll take with me threw life. However, by television and word-of-mouth, woman hitting men is seen as right and just. In a lot of instances, violence towards men is seen as humorous, and this is portrayed in many television programs. In this time we live, woman are almost encouraged to hit men whenever they feel the need, because they know men cannot hit them back.

The crime-survey: 1996, it was reported that men that have come forwards where very unhappy with the level of support available to them, including policed-support. The report tells of a police officers confession that when they are called to a domestic fight, even when the man is bleeding and woman is visually unharmed, it is likely the man who is arrested.

In the '96 survey, it also tells of one man’s domestic violence ordeal.
On this particular night, the man left his home with a bloody face, and was advised by a police-officer to report the incident. The man in question did so, but at the station, he was told “these things happen” and no action was taken by the police. When the man decided to fill divorce on his wife, she accused HIM of violence, and the courts quickly awarded his house to her.

In divorce proceeding, woman are more inclined to exaggerate violence, or even make false claims, in order to aid their case. This claim is backed up by many lawyers including Mark Bowman, a lawyer with London solicitors, who says "Women have an incentive to exaggerate claims of violence, as they can use them to get the man ousted from the family home."


The media’s bias

How often do you see men being hit on television? How is it usually portrayed when a male is hit by a female on a show? Yes, comedy where it all leads to, and hitting the male sex is portrayed as something of comedic value. Now how is hitting woman viewed? We usually only see this in hard-hitting dramas, and it’s NEVER portrayed as humorous. Is that huge difference right?

The way media set this violence is also a concern. When we see woman hitting men on TV, it’s usually due to something the man has said. In contrast, when the man hits a woman, it’s usually an innocent woman being assaulted by an ‘evil’ man.

Day-time talk shows are also just as bias as any other medium. If you watch just one such show during this week, I’ll guarantee you that it’s about men having affairs, or men taking lie detector tests, or something to do with men generally be bad to woman. We all know that it’s just men who have affairs and we all know it’s not just men who lie, but that’s the way these shows wish to present it to us.


Sexual Prejudice

Even as I’m writing this, I’m watching the news which is telling of how Spain’s equality commissioner (a woman) is attempting to ban the use of female-models as ball-girls during the Tennis tournament that is currently on going. Her reason is that “it degrades woman and portrays them as things of entertainment”. Now, fair enough you may be thinking, but not when you look at the other side. MALE models are used during the female tennis games, yet the Equality commissioner has not mentioned them at all, and is quite happy to let it carry on, despite her detest when the shoe is on the other foot. Is that EQUALITY?

There are many more topics, but I just can’t write them all done. I personally am a believer in equality. I think that men and women should be treated as equals and portrayed as so also. The points I’ve raised show that there is a serious gap beginning to break, which is pushing men into an oppressed position. Because of the way we’ve been brought up, we’ve come to accept this, and because of the way media portray things, are children will also grow up, thinking that men are meant to be 2nd class. That’s just not what equality is meant to be.




:mad:














What do you think?

[TheDeadWalk]

All of that stuff really sucks, but I think it's really cool that I can pee while standing up.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Originally posted by TheDeadWalk
All of that stuff really sucks, but I think it's really cool that I can pee while standing up.

Hell yes.


Plus, we still don't have to see special doctors to check out OUR reproductive organ.


There is one place, however, that we men have always had control of: the Oval Office.....so we haven't completely failed.

[outsyder]

Originally posted by God of Cinema
In divorce proceeding, woman are more inclined to exaggerate violence, or even make false claims, in order to aid their case. This claim is backed up by many lawyers including Mark Bowman, a lawyer with London solicitors, who says "Women have an incentive to exaggerate claims of violence, as they can use them to get the man ousted from the family home."


This is completely true. A family friend of mine was going through a rough patch with his wife. One day, after an argument, she called the cops on him, claiming he hit her, cops came and arrested him without ANY hesitation.

I find I agree with a lot of this rant. People should be treated equally. There are some issues in which women aren't treated equally, and there are some in which men aren't treated equally.

[BadCoverVersion]

Originally posted by God of Cinema
Parental rights

In divorce proceedings, men have little to no rights in gaining access or custody of their children. This situation has gotten so bad that men in England have formed an alliance to try and gain equal rights for themselves in seeing their children. “Fathers For Justice” have done some bizarre things, mostly including dressing up as superhero’s, but their cause is getting recognition. Many people have said they’re a nuisance, but that’s what they said when woman marched to gain a vote 100 years ago.

Fathers 4 Justice are extremist idiots...they plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son according to some sources!? Several of their key members *cough*onesinthenews*cough have criminal records and abandoned children from years back. Jason Hatch - the Buckingham Palace Batman - claims to have fathered 5 different kids with 5 different women and has been charged with harrassment against his ex-wife (a 'charge' by the way MUST be substantiated with some form of proof).

They do more fucking harm than good, and that's a fact.

Abuse is not funny, period.

I know of 8 women who have been battered senseless by the men in their lives...strong women as well. I know of one man who has been beaten by his partner.

Men are not the oppressed sex. Women are called sluts, bitches, whores day in, day out on these very forums. Men don't get a ride half as rough.

I do think the system needs to change...and good Dad's should have as much right to see their kids as any good Mother! But I don't think men are in any danger of having their balls cut off...it's a LONG, LOOOOOONG time off.

[Tagia_Romero]

Originally posted by BadCoverVersion
Fathers 4 Justice are extremist idiots...they plotted to kidnap Tony Blair's son according to some sources!? Several of their key members *cough*onesinthenews*cough have criminal records and abandoned children from years back. Jason Hatch - the Buckingham Palace Batman - claims to have fathered 5 different kids with 5 different women and has been charged with harrassment against his ex-wife (a 'charge' by the way MUST be substantiated with some form of proof).

They do more fucking harm than good, and that's a fact.

Abuse is not funny, period.

I know of 8 women who have been battered senseless by the men in their lives...strong women as well. I know of one man who has been beaten by his partner.

Men are not the oppressed sex. Women are called sluts, bitches, whores day in, day out on these very forums. Men don't get a ride half as rough.

I do think the system needs to change...and good Dad's should have as much right to see their kids as any good Mother! But I don't think men are in any danger of having their balls cut off...it's a LONG, LOOOOOONG time off.

Took the words right out of my gob you did.

Double standards are incredibly frustrating for both sexes, no doubt, such as single fathers don't make good parents, which is absolute crap. A few good male friends of mine were very nervous about fatherhood after their partners left them, but they grew into their own and they have raised their kids just fine. Men are also suseptible to rape and abuse, but not as much as women, admittedly so.

I highly doubt men will ever be the 'inferior sex' *I HATE that term for may reasons*.
It may very well be a cold day in Hell before a series of competant female world leaders appear.

I'm no legit anthropologist, but it truly gets my goat to discover that the 'ideal' woman has 36-24-36 measurements who ALWAYS takes care of herself but just can't LIVE without being dominated by a man in their lives. I know the difference between fantasy and reality, but there are some men who live their lives AS that fantasy and it's not particularly fair on women.
Same goes with women being stuck in an eternal fantasy that all men are supposed to have wash board stomachs, deep voices and manliness to surpass all manliness.

GAH.


Do worry about your dicks boys, nobody's gonna cut 'em for a long time, if ever.

[Kevin Lockard]

"Men are not the oppressed sex. Women are called sluts, bitches, whores day in, day out on these very forums. Men don't get a ride half as rough."

I'll agree with this. Men are seen as "players" if they sleep with tons of women, whereas if a girl did the same, she would be deemed all of those things. I actually had a girl in high school who was a huge whore who had her own website actually exposing herself. Whereas that made me sick (and anyone else with decency), if a guy had done it, he would probably be hailed as a king and probably be asked for advice.

Also, yeah, those insults are used regularly against women who are not liked and it isn't always justified whereas the only insult a guy can get that really could offend them is something like "faggot" which really shoudn't be an insult considering. Apparently, it's bad from alot of men's point of view to be a "fag" but being a lesbian is great!!

"I'm no legit anthropologist, but it truly gets my goat to discover that the 'ideal' woman has 36-24-36 measurements who ALWAYS takes care of herself but just can't LIVE without being dominated by a man in their lives. I know the difference between fantasy and reality, but there are some men who live their lives AS that fantasy and it's not particularly fair on women.
Same goes with women being stuck in an eternal fantasy that all men are supposed to have wash board stomachs, deep voices and manliness to surpass all manliness."

I agree with this also. Don't know if this was specifically what you were getting at, but I know of single women who have actually had many relationships with different men but have never ever lived with one at all, even single mothers. I guess it is society's norm to not only demand to go to bed each night and wake up besides a guy each morning, but that when you make love to them, it's in the bed you both share, otherwise it would deem one as a "whore" for making love and then "running off" or something like that.

Also what you said about the ideal of what a man is supposed to be. I've known women though who have had boyfriends who are quite different from one another. The thing that attracts them to them is brains, charisma and overall kindness rather than model looks and thick muscles. If only more women were like that......

[TheDeadWalk]

A few years ago I was to take part in a custody battle which was eventually settled out of court. I was on the mother's side, and the attorney had explained to us that the situation wasn't going to be where the child would be best suited. In the state of Ohio, he explained, it has been determined that it is best for the child to stay with the biological mother, unless she is seen to be an unfit parent.

You can look at the cultural treatment and opposition that many women receive, but the whole "whore" vs. "king of sex" stereotype needs to change, but is still kind of petty.

Many men use physical and mental power over women in relationships and marriages, and yes some women kindly accept that role. Outside of that box, however, we come into the domestic and civil legal systems, where I think it's a different ball game.

[APzombie]

Interesting read. As far as the media bias, I was in a heated argument the other day with a gal friend over sex in the city. She says its a liberating femenist show, I said sure, but its pretty sexist. Do you think if it was about guys it would be considered "liberating"? No, if men acted and said the shite they said on the show, it wouldn't be funny, liberating or entertaining. It would be vulgar and sexist toward women.

[BigSugar]

Thought I might give some movie perspective on this; I just read an article in TIME that Belinda Luscombe wrote bemoaning the fact that, in much of the latest "chick flick" fare, the men were drawn as losers and the women solid, stron professionals. Nothing wrong with the first part, but perhaps the latter portion speaks to a greater problem. Whhile she seems to think that women need better men as partners on film, I can't help but think about how perhaps these films should show women MAKING BETTER FUCKING CHOICES. A good man may indeed be hard to find, but if film is really a place for dreams, then shouldn't we dreaming a little higher?

the article basically states that it's women's turn to be losers and slackers, which would be nice, but somehow I don't think it would fly with an audience. Be that as it may, I'm not sure how any group of people, no matter what sex, can call itself oppressed when one of its members has a finger on the nuclear launch button. I could be wrong , though.

P.S.; The hing I've heard constantly about "Sex in the City" is that it delineates the complexities of female realationships better than anything else ever has . Seeing women leaning on each other for strength in the face of adversity is a good thing. Watching them fuck up their romantic lives over and over isn't.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

The thing I hate the most is when some skank will sleep with a guy, only to have the guy leave and never call back, and suddenly it's the man who's horrible. It's not like the guy forces the woman, but it's always the man who's the whore, never the woman.

[BigSugar]

Not for nothing, brother, but complaining about loose women is like complaining about free money.

[stickmangrit]

Originally posted by God of Cinema
The media’s bias

How often do you see men being hit on television? How is it usually portrayed when a male is hit by a female on a show? Yes, comedy where it all leads to, and hitting the male sex is portrayed as something of comedic value. Now how is hitting woman viewed? We usually only see this in hard-hitting dramas, and it’s NEVER portrayed as humorous. Is that huge difference right?


whilst not TV, this comment immediately reminded me of the opening sequence of The Way of the Gun, where Rian Phillipe and Benicio Del Toro are about to get the shit kicked out of them by a group of guys, so they start taking swings at the guy's girlfriends. hi-goddamned-larious scene.

[AnnoyingQuestionAsker]

Originally posted by God of Cinema
Parental rights

In divorce proceedings, men have little to no rights in gaining access or custody of their children. This situation has gotten so bad that men in England have formed an alliance to try and gain equal rights for themselves in seeing their children. “Fathers For Justice” have done some bizarre things, mostly including dressing up as superhero’s, but their cause is getting recognition. Many people have said they’re a nuisance, but that’s what they said when woman marched to gain a vote 100 years ago. Nothing is fair unless it’s equal, and in terms of children, men should have the RIGHT to see their children as they see fit. If a man has no history of violence, then no woman should have right ask for supervised visitation. Men are not animals, and they don’t need to be supervised while looking after their kids.
[/B]

As an aside to this, if you look at US Constitutional Law, if a child is born outside the United States to a US-citizen father and non-citizen mother, then the parents have to demonstrate a list of things for the child to become a US citizen. If, on the other hand, the child is born to a US-citizen mother and non-US citizen father, then the child is automatically a US citizen. After a great deal of discussion regarding the issue, it came down to as my professor quoted, "Drive-by inseminations". The man must prove that he will take care of the child in order for the child to be a US citizen, whereas having a citizen for the mother is automatic. {This rule was mainly due to our armed forces servicemen nailing every piece of ass in other countries and the government not waiting to pay the bills}

[Crazy Dud]

Oppression will always be a two way street in any venue, whether it be sexism, racism, ageism, or religious oppression. Trying to compare which one is more oppressed I have found to be counterproductive, because it turns into a game of "who is the most victimized and, therefore, worthy of the greatest amount of retribution and social restructuring in favor of them." In other words, it becomes a power struggle, which is what most prejudice and oppression is all about. Therefore, in playing the comparison game, we perpetuate the problem. It is because women are seen as more oppressed that men are often oppressed in the ways others already mentioned they are. And male oppression causes women to be oppressed in ways I will not go into because everyone knows (or should know) what those are. WE ARE ALL AT FAULT!

[Tagia_Romero]

Originally posted by God of Cinema


Also what you said about the ideal of what a man is supposed to be. I've known women though who have had boyfriends who are quite different from one another. The thing that attracts them to them is brains, charisma and overall kindness rather than model looks and thick muscles. If only more women were like that......

We'll stop doing that when the assholes of your gender stop saying that the women in girly magazines are the ideal of our gender. And I know that's a whole lot of assholes.

[Briare Rabbit]

Don't even try that. Women are just as shallow when it comes to stick men on the cover of magazines... you think those male models are healthy on their no food, all protein diets, lifting weights for hours a day and chewing steroids to look "pretty"? This arguement goes both way.

I hear the word faggot more times in a day than I hear bitch, slut or whore.

And women exaggerate, hit, abuse [verbally, emotionally and psychologically] and blow up as much as men do. Anger is a disease shared by both genders. Its only a shame our courts and lawmen are so messed they can't see this.

[Criminal Rock]

Originally posted by Briare Rabbit
Don't even try that. Women are just as shallow when it comes to stick men on the cover of magazines... you think those male models are healthy on their no food, all protein diets, lifting weights for hours a day and chewing steroids to look "pretty"? This arguement goes both way.

I hear the word faggot more times in a day than I hear bitch, slut or whore.

And women exaggerate, hit, abuse [verbally, emotionally and psychologically] and blow up as much as men do. Anger is a disease shared by both genders. Its only a shame our courts and lawmen are so messed they can't see this.

Hey... something logical.

[Crazy Dud]

Originally posted by Briare Rabbit
Don't even try that. Women are just as shallow when it comes to stick men on the cover of magazines... you think those male models are healthy on their no food, all protein diets, lifting weights for hours a day and chewing steroids to look "pretty"? This arguement goes both way.

I hear the word faggot more times in a day than I hear bitch, slut or whore.

And women exaggerate, hit, abuse [verbally, emotionally and psychologically] and blow up as much as men do. Anger is a disease shared by both genders. Its only a shame our courts and lawmen are so messed they can't see this.

Beautiful argument!

But I should have expected that on this subject from someone with Thirteen as their avatar!:)

[Tagia_Romero]

Originally posted by Briare Rabbit
Don't even try that. Women are just as shallow when it comes to stick men on the cover of magazines... you think those male models are healthy on their no food, all protein diets, lifting weights for hours a day and chewing steroids to look "pretty"? This arguement goes both way.

I hear the word faggot more times in a day than I hear bitch, slut or whore.

And women exaggerate, hit, abuse [verbally, emotionally and psychologically] and blow up as much as men do. Anger is a disease shared by both genders. Its only a shame our courts and lawmen are so messed they can't see this.

I was only replying to GoC's argument the way he debated with me. MY personal belief is basically like yours. Yep, women ARE shallow, something I am ashamed of with my gender. For every bastard there is a major league bitch.

As I originally pointed out, men and women are both the oppressed sex.

[ElderPredator]

Originally posted by Tagia_Romero

As I originally pointed out, men and women are both the oppressed sex.

I totally agree with that statement. It depends on the person and how they are in modern day society.

[BadCoverVersion]

Originally posted by Briare Rabbit
Don't even try that. Women are just as shallow when it comes to stick men on the cover of magazines... you think those male models are healthy on their no food, all protein diets, lifting weights for hours a day and chewing steroids to look "pretty"? This arguement goes both way.

I don't know ANY woman that digs that shit...what the fuck are you talking about? Yes because that's why 'The Chippendales' aren't viewed as mere beefcake titilation, suitable only for hen parties and suchlike.

Men actually turn to women with comedy breasts and inflated lips to crack on off...women seek the male alternative for a laugh.

100 Sexiest Men of 2006 according to British publication New Woman?

Try Brad Pitt at #1 (token beefcake I'll give you that, but hardly Schwartznegger) and then Jose Mourinho at #6???

That's THIS guy...

http://karinaoliveira.blogs.sapo.pt/arquivo/jose%20mourinho.jpg

Scrawny Depp at #4, Daniel Craig at #8, Pete Doherty at #18

http://www.rtl.nl/components/actueel/rtlboulevard/2006/05_mei/entertainment/images/PeteDoherty210-258.jpg

David Tennant at #20

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/mirror/apr2005/4/2/000D2BB9-B467-1260-A3CD80C328EC0000.jpg

Joaquin at #24, Carl Barat, Jason Lee, Jonathan Ross, Anthony Head, David Cameron etc, etc, etc.

Seriously, I think you are SO bang fucking WRONG here it's untrue. How many WOMEN do you know who would fuck stupid muscles before aesthetically challenged but funny and intelligent. Think about it, then apply the same to men.

Originally posted by Briare Rabbit
I hear the word faggot more times in a day than I hear bitch, slut or whore.

The faggot insult is generally used AMONGST men...again, I don't know of any women who would use that word as an insult.

Tell me I'm wrong.

I don't believe blokes have it easy...not with the latest crop of idiotic women making it difficult for all - including their fellow females - by crying abuse, rape, etc. It seems to be all the rage at the moment unfortunately.

And I do agree to a certain extent that middle class white men are getting a rougher deal when it comes to equal ops.

But come on, some of the chat here is just silly.

[echo_bravo]

Yeah but BadCoverVersion, those men have MONEY, which is a big turn on to women as well.

[BadCoverVersion]

Originally posted by echo_bravo
Yeah but BadCoverVersion, those men have MONEY, which is a big turn on to women as well.

Oh fuck me, OF COURSE THEY HAVE FUCKING MONEY...who were they supposed to choose??? The bloke at No.12? The kid at the sandwich shop?

Jesus H, we are all money-grubbing sluts aint we now?

I don't know how it works in the US but over here most of us don't really give a fucking hoot.

My requirements...

*You are willing to dress up as a cowboy, a pirate and a lady
*Ready to dance in your underpants
*You can cook
*You like to play Singstar
*You like picnics
*You will watch Andrew McCarthy movies with me
*We will play Scrabble and Harry Potter top trumps
*I can comb your hair
*You will scratch my back
*We will have wicked good sex

Money pah. Most people don't fucking care...men, women, people who surrender happiness for material goods are cunts, end of story.

[Adam J. Hakari]

Originally posted by BadCoverVersion
My requirements...

*You are willing to dress up as a cowboy, a pirate and a lady
*Ready to dance in your underpants
*You can cook
*You like to play Singstar
*You like picnics
*You will watch Andrew McCarthy movies with me
*We will play Scrabble and Harry Potter top trumps
*I can comb your hair
*You will scratch my back
*We will have wicked good sex

Money pah. Most people don't fucking care...men, women, people who surrender happiness for material goods are cunts, end of story.

I dunno what Singstar is, but otherwise, I'm game. :D

[Tagia_Romero]

Originally posted by BadCoverVersion
Oh fuck me, OF COURSE THEY HAVE FUCKING MONEY...who were they supposed to choose??? The bloke at No.12? The kid at the sandwich shop?

Jesus H, we are all money-grubbing sluts aint we now?

I don't know how it works in the US but over here most of us don't really give a fucking hoot.

Money pah. Most people don't fucking care...men, women, people who surrender happiness for material goods are cunts, end of story.

...

Yes. What Lady BCV said. Though materialism isn't just limited to women, naturally. That's the sad part. In that department, it's equal opportunity.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

I could have sworn I remember Winston Wolfe removing this post, oh well, I'll comment further.....


Both sexes have the whores, the hypocrites, the cunts, and the liars.....but there is no getting around the double standards. I'm sorry, but we just need to decide as a whole that there are always going to be double standards, held by us included, and there's nothing we can do about it.


Here's what I've always found to be interesting. Many women will not want to be with a man who has been with a slut, and many men won't want to be with a woman who has slept with a womanizer. I can perfectly understand this, because we all want purity in the long run but in the short run we all want what's temporary (i.e. one night stands).

[Tagia_Romero]

Originally posted by Brando @$$ Fat


Here's what I've always found to be interesting. Many women will not want to be with a man who has been with a slut, and many men won't want to be with a woman who has slept with a womanizer. I can perfectly understand this, because we all want purity in the long run but in the short run we all want what's temporary (i.e. one night stands).

I understand your point. But asking for purity seems too much. Well, that's just what I believe anyway.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Originally posted by Tagia_Romero
I understand your point. But asking for purity seems too much. Well, that's just what I believe anyway.

Um, that's exactly what I'm saying. We want it but there's no way we're getting it.

[Crazy Dud]

Originally posted by Brando @$$ Fat
Um, that's exactly what I'm saying. We want it but there's no way we're getting it.

Really? I know many extremely attractive women in their twenties who are still pure . . . and I'm not from Mars! Most of these women, admittedly, are Christian (I am myself). Honestly, it is much harder to find "pure" people outside the church, and it's even become increasingly harder to find them inside the church . . . but they do exist. Hell, I'm 23 and male, and I still am!

And BCV, come on! For many women, money is the equivalent of looks for many men! You stated you are not from the states. Of course, I can speak only for the area I live . . . Southern California . . . the materialism capitol of the world!

And your argument that women are not concerned with looks like men is true to a point. It doesn't tend to be AS BIG of a deal to women. However, your argument against it was based purely upon muscular men. You know muscular men aren't the in thing anymore! It's the effeminite (not sure on spelling) men that seem to be in . . . or the brooding artists. Orlando Bloom is an example of the former and Johnny Depp is an example of the latter. Men, scarily, seem to want their women to look either underage, anorexic, or outrageously proportioned.

[Scorpio24]

I think this thread is kind of crazy.

Both sexes have differing parts of their lives that is oppressed.

Both sexes have sections that are evil bastards and want only a partner for the most material of reasons.

Both sexes are getting along just fine and have enough "good people" in them to keep the world spinning.

[someguy]

Obviously women are dumber and weaker than men, this is a bulletproof point that has stayed the same over the centuries.

[TheDeadWalk]

Yes, the debate is settled. Now make us pie.

[thedudeman69]

they better make it apple.

[BadCoverVersion]

I wouldn't eat that pie boys...

I really wouldn't.

[BadCoverVersion]

Originally posted by Crazy Dud
And BCV, come on! For many women, money is the equivalent of looks for many men! You stated you are not from the states. Of course, I can speak only for the area I live . . . Southern California . . . the materialism capitol of the world!

Maybe I've led a sheltered life, but I don't know a single female who would take money over either personality or hotness.

Originally posted by Crazy Dud
And your argument that women are not concerned with looks like men is true to a point. It doesn't tend to be AS BIG of a deal to women. However, your argument against it was based purely upon muscular men. You know muscular men aren't the in thing anymore! It's the effeminite (not sure on spelling) men that seem to be in . . . or the brooding artists. Orlando Bloom is an example of the former and Johnny Depp is an example of the latter. Men, scarily, seem to want their women to look either underage, anorexic, or outrageously proportioned.

I was responding to this...

Women are just as shallow when it comes to stick men on the cover of magazines... you think those male models are healthy on their no food, all protein diets, lifting weights for hours a day and chewing steroids to look "pretty"? This arguement goes both way.

Briare is WAY of the mark on 'what women want', 'tis true...and you're right that a lot of women go for the brooding artist type, but I think that just supports my argument that MOST women want more than just dashing good looks.

[Crazy Dud]

Originally posted by BadCoverVersion
Maybe I've led a sheltered life, but I don't know a single female who would take money over either personality or hotness.



I was responding to this...

Women are just as shallow when it comes to stick men on the cover of magazines... you think those male models are healthy on their no food, all protein diets, lifting weights for hours a day and chewing steroids to look "pretty"? This arguement goes both way.

Briare is WAY of the mark on 'what women want', 'tis true...and you're right that a lot of women go for the brooding artist type, but I think that just supports my argument that MOST women want more than just dashing good looks.

As far as your second quote rebuttal, I see that I did mistakenly critique that quote out of context. But as far as many women liking the brooding artist proving that women want more than just looks does not hold up. The brooding artist LOOK is just that . . . A LOOK. I fit, mostly, the personality profile of a brooding artist, but am not considered one because I don't have the look to go with it. In fact, I know several guys who are considered brooding artists because they have the look, but if you really get to know them you find they are not brooding artists at all.

Are men more guilty of being consumed by looks? Yes. Let's face it, just about all of us guys are guilty of it. However, neither gender is innocent of it.

[Beeblebrox]

Anyhow, it's how men seem to be becoming the oppressed sex in today's world.

Utterly and absolutely preposterous. The key word in your statement here is "oppressed." Are men oppressed? The answer is a resounding and billowing "NO."

Men dominate every office and every branch of government.

Men dominate every corporation's board rooms and executive offices, from small to giant conglomerates.

Men dominate the news media as anchors and personalities. Men dominate studio offices, director's chairs, and every crew position from bottom to top.

So tell me where and how in what fantasyland men are being oppressed? Because male models in Spain are being used on tennis courts but women aren't? Are you fucking serious? I'll bet you a brazillian dollars that ANY woman would trade that double-standard to control EVERY BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, EVERY CORPORATE OFFICE, and EVERY POSITION OF POWER IN THE WHOLE GODDAMNED WORLD.

Honestly, this is just as pathetic and baseless as when WHITE people complain about being the truly oppressed race or when the RICH complain about being the ones punished by government policies. I'm playing the world's smallest violin for you.

[AWP82]

Damn dude, did he hit a nerve or something? lol

[Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by AWP82
Damn dude, did he hit a nerve or something? lol

Heh, I guess so. ;)

He should go for the tri-fecta, ala Pat Buchanan, and explain to us how it's the rich white guys we should really be feeling sorry for. Sure they run the world, own everything, and have all the power imaginable, but they are being OPPRESSED because there's no male equivalent of Sex & The City. Woe is the rich white male! We should come up with some spirituals to raise them out of their sad and miserable plight!

[AWP82]

Well, for the record, I think both sides have made valid points, and I agree with pretty much all of you. Therefore, Scorpio's post sums up my feelings on the matter (except that I think it's a worthy discussion). I'm not going to elaborate any further because I don't want to risk pissing anyone off, especially the women....they'd "own" me like hell. :D

PS. I hope they don't take that last comment seriously.

[Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by AWP82
[B]Well, for the record, I think both sides have made valid points, and I agree with pretty much all of you

I think that some men get the shaft in divorce cases. Some men are abused by their wives. But to use these as examples to show that men are now the oppressed sex completely dismisses and ignores the overwhelming fact that men as a whole own, control, and run pretty much everything in the world.

A few examples of individuals getting the shaft does not turn the tide in favor of women. It's like saying that because I own a dollar bill and Bill Gates owns a dollar bill, that we are both just as wealthy as the other. That's true, as long as you conveniently ignore all the other billions of dollars he has that I don't. It's ridiculous.

It's human nature to feel victimized, I suppose, but let's get a freakin' grip on reality here. Men have ceded maybe 2% of their 99% of the universe to women, and rather than bellyaching over that 2% like you're some third-world slave, you should be saying that it's about time.

[AWP82]

That's a fair enough point. I can't argue with that. :)

But damn it man, I hate leaving the toilet seat up. Why can't THEY leave it down for US for a change? I'm too lazy to accomodate them!

[Scorpio24]

Originally posted by Beeblebrox


It's human nature to feel victimized, I suppose, but let's get a freakin' grip on reality here. Men have ceded maybe 2% of their 99% of the universe to women, and rather than bellyaching over that 2% like you're some third-world slave, you should be saying that it's about time.

Beeble thats bloody beautifull. A tear just rolled down my cheek. Ok it wasn't that emoitonal but it was well said none the less.

[Tagia_Romero]

Originally posted by AWP82
Well, for the record, I think both sides have made valid points, and I agree with pretty much all of you. Therefore, Scorpio's post sums up my feelings on the matter (except that I think it's a worthy discussion). I'm not going to elaborate any further because I don't want to risk pissing anyone off, especially the women....they'd "own" me like hell. :D

PS. I hope they don't take that last comment seriously.


*whacks you with my purse* :p ;)

[Kevin Lockard]

Originally posted by Beeblebrox
Utterly and absolutely preposterous. The key word in your statement here is "oppressed." Are men oppressed? The answer is a resounding and billowing "NO."

Men dominate every office and every branch of government.

Men dominate every corporation's board rooms and executive offices, from small to giant conglomerates.

Men dominate the news media as anchors and personalities. Men dominate studio offices, director's chairs, and every crew position from bottom to top.

So tell me where and how in what fantasyland men are being oppressed? Because male models in Spain are being used on tennis courts but women aren't? Are you fucking serious? I'll bet you a brazillian dollars that ANY woman would trade that double-standard to control EVERY BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, EVERY CORPORATE OFFICE, and EVERY POSITION OF POWER IN THE WHOLE GODDAMNED WORLD.

Honestly, this is just as pathetic and baseless as when WHITE people complain about being the truly oppressed race or when the RICH complain about being the ones punished by government policies. I'm playing the world's smallest violin for you.

Would a box of Klenex and a ticket to Oprah do you well? :D

[Tagia_Romero]

Originally posted by God of Cinema
Would a box of Klenex and a ticket to Oprah do you well? :D

With all due respect, it was you who started such a passionate rant.

[Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by Tagia_Romero
With all due respect, it was you who started such a passionate rant.

Exactly. A whiny-ass titty baby rant about how poor whittle GOC is being oppressed by a bunch of women. Frankly I'd rather hang out with Oprah. She's got a bigger sack than this dude will ever have. And I'm sure this black woman who pulled herself up by her bootstraps would LOVE to hear about how oppressed the men are in this world. She'd take that box of kleenex and shove it up his whiny little ass.

[Crazy Dud]

Originally posted by Beeblebrox
Exactly. A whiny-ass titty baby rant about how poor whittle GOC is being oppressed by a bunch of women. Frankly I'd rather hang out with Oprah. She's got a bigger sack than this dude will ever have. And I'm sure this black woman who pulled herself up by her bootstraps would LOVE to hear about how oppressed the men are in this world. She'd take that box of kleenex and shove it up his whiny little ass.

Wow! That sounds an awful lot like a personal attack! WATCH IT! PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE AGAINST FORUM RULES AND CAN GET YOU KICKED OUT!

This is something for everyone to keep in mind, as rants like this can easily degenerate into insults and name-calling. I'm not saying you're guilty of this, Beeblebrox, but that last post is walking a VERY fine line!

[Scorpio24]

Originally posted by Crazy Dud
Wow! That sounds an awful lot like a personal attack! WATCH IT! PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE AGAINST FORUM RULES AND CAN GET YOU KICKED OUT!

This is something for everyone to keep in mind, as rants like this can easily degenerate into insults and name-calling. I'm not saying you're guilty of this, Beeblebrox, but that last post is walking a VERY fine line!

Nah you just have to get to know Bebble a little better. He's not getting personal. Just using a bit of satire and sarcasam. Something we all get a little guilty of on times.

[ComeNightfall]

One thing about men vs. women I can't stand is that it seems perfectly acceptable for men to be overweight, but god forbid a woman has some meat on her bones, and she's a fat cow. This world is getting crazy when we call Kelly Clarkson, Scarlett Johannson, and Mariah Carey fat...we need to wake up. Men who think walking skeletons are hot I will never understand. Of course, many of us gals are pretty petty too when it comes to looks. I never did care for guys with muscles bulging out everywhere, I prefer real-looking guys.

People complain about how TV and movies always have big guys with thin women...this is actually pretty realistic, as well as skinnny guys with big women. I see it all the time in public.

[Scorpio24]

Originally posted by ComeNightfall
One thing about men vs. women I can't stand is that it seems perfectly acceptable for men to be overweight, but god forbid a woman has some meat on her bones, and she's a fat cow. This world is getting crazy when we call Kelly Clarkson, Scarlett Johannson, and Mariah Carey fat...we need to wake up. Men who think walking skeletons are hot I will never understand. Of course, many of us gals are pretty petty too when it comes to looks. I never did care for guys with muscles bulging out everywhere, I prefer real-looking guys.

People complain about how TV and movies always have big guys with thin women...this is actually pretty realistic, as well as skinnny guys with big women. I see it all the time in public.


The thing with this though. I know not one man that likes skeleton figured girls over ones with more curves. Really not one.

Like you I think it's disgusting that women are targeted when they are not in the uliitmate shape or like a rake. But I don't believe this comes from the guy in the street. At least not 1 i've talken to.

[Kevin Lockard]

"Exactly. A whiny-ass titty baby rant about how poor whittle GOC is being oppressed by a bunch of women. Frankly I'd rather hang out with Oprah. She's got a bigger sack than this dude will ever have. And I'm sure this black woman who pulled herself up by her bootstraps would LOVE to hear about how oppressed the men are in this world. She'd take that box of kleenex and shove it up his whiny little ass."


If you'd actually read a little more carefully, you'd know I actually copied and pasted this rant from another forum. Just go back and read my first post again since it seems you missed that part the first time. My own very few thoughts later on in this thread were hardly "whiny."


**Crickets Start Chirping**





OH GOC, DON'T HIT HIM SO HARD!! :D :D :D :D :D

[Crazy Dud]

Originally posted by Scorpio24
Nah you just have to get to know Bebble a little better. He's not getting personal. Just using a bit of satire and sarcasam. Something we all get a little guilty of on times.

Live and learn. I am still pretty new here, after all!:)

[Scorpio24]

Yeah no sweat man.

[Crazy Dud]

Originally posted by ComeNightfall
One thing about men vs. women I can't stand is that it seems perfectly acceptable for men to be overweight, but god forbid a woman has some meat on her bones, and she's a fat cow. This world is getting crazy when we call Kelly Clarkson, Scarlett Johannson, and Mariah Carey fat...we need to wake up. Men who think walking skeletons are hot I will never understand. Of course, many of us gals are pretty petty too when it comes to looks. I never did care for guys with muscles bulging out everywhere, I prefer real-looking guys.

People complain about how TV and movies always have big guys with thin women...this is actually pretty realistic, as well as skinnny guys with big women. I see it all the time in public.

Somebody called Scarlett Johannson fat?! Let me at 'em! LET ME AT 'EM!!!:D

[Winston Wolfe]

Our board is for MOVIE-discussions only. Thread closed.

PS: As per the development of this thread, it is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of why we don't allow off-topic non-movie posts in our forums. If you want to discuss matters other than movies, there are half a zillion other websites for that. We here on JoBlo.com cater only to movie discussions. Thanks for understanding.