The Prestige

[MadsenOMC]

HUGE SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







The second magician movie in as many months, The Prestige has a lot more firepower than The Illusionist, but when all is said and done they are essentially the same in terms of quality. Entertaining and satisfying, but not much more.

As a huge fan of Nolan and the cast (especially Bale), this was one of my most anticipated movies of the year. My expectations may have been a little high and unrealistic. I figured The Prestige would blow me away, but it fell short of that.

The story begins with Bale’s character, Alfred Borden, on trial for the murder of Robert Angier, played by Jackman. We see an illusion going wrong, resulting in Angier drowning in a tank while Borden watches. Of course, nothing is ever what it seems.

The rest of The Prestige cuts back and forth in time. After Borden’s trial (and guilty verdict), he sits in prison waiting to be hanged until he is dead. A man named Owens (Roger Rees) attempts to get him to sell his secrets in order to ensure the well-being of his young daughter.

Back in turn of the century London, Angier and Borden are young men hoping to become magicians. It is unclear how close they are, but from the start it is obvious that they have different philosophies when it comes to the work.

Borden is adamant about showing people something they have never seen before. Angier is more of a showman and wants to entertain people.

Eventually, under the guidance of an ingeneur named Cutter (Michael Caine), they have a show together. One of the illusions involves Julia (Piper Perabo), Angier’s wife, being dropped into a water-filled tank with her hands and legs tied. Of course they tie the knots loose and she escapes in seconds.

Borden wants to tie a different knot though, and you can guess what happens. Julia is in on it with him, but she can’t get loose and drowns before Cutter can break the glass and free her.

So begins an intense, hateful rivalry between the two men. When Angier hears that Borden is performing a bullet trick, he disguises himself and manages to shoot off two of Borden’s fingers. Borden returns the favor by getting Angier to severely break his leg, causing permanent damage that leaves him with a limp.

Soon Borden pulls off a stunning illusion that baffles Angier. The latter becomes obsessed with figuring out how he does it.

There is also a subplot that has Angier paying a visit to Colorado Springs. He wants a mysterious scientist named Tesla (David Bowie) to build him something. Tesla is working with electricity and is a rival of Thomas Edison’s.

It all leads to a series of twists and turns, some of which are easier to guess than others. The secret to Borden’s seemingly impossible illusion is easy to guess long before the movie reveals it, but Angier’s secret is more complicated.

There is a lot to admire here. The Prestige is extremely well-made and the cast is excellent. The illusions are fun to watch, as is the competition between Borden and Angier. There are many outstanding individual scenes.

It doesn’t add up to much though and it doesn’t leave a lasting impression. It feels like there is a lot left out in the beginning, in the establishment of the relationship between Angier and Borden. We don’t learn how they know each other and for how long. I don’t think we learn as much about them as we should.

The domestic scenes are fairly standard and uninteresting. Borden has troubles in the home. His wife begins to grow tired of his secrets and suspects he is having an affair. She thinks he is sleeping with Olivia (Scarlett Johansson, in a thankless role), who was Angier’s assistant but ends up performing the same role for Borden.

Maybe my expectations were too high, but I expected to like The Prestige more than I did. It is good and definitely worth seeing, but I thought it would be great, maybe even one of the best movies of the year. That is not the case though. It never fails to entertain but somehow it feels like a mild disappointment at the same time.

7/10

[Strider]

Madsen, out of your entire review, I only read the 7/10. I'm glad you liked it, but I don't want to read any reviews for this film, in fear of spoiling it for myself. I want to walk into The Prestige with as little knowledge of the story as possible. I only know it's about dueling magicians, and the only footage I've seen has been in the trailer. With Memento, I made the mistake of reading two reviews. At least, however, I never saw one trailer or television spot.

The Prestige is one of my most anticipated films of the year. I think it looks fantastic. Christopher Nolan is quickly becoming one of my all-time favorite filmmakers. Everything from his directorial debut Following to one of the best, if not the best comic book film ever made in Batman Begins, I have loved.

I cannot wait.

Strider

[ilovemovies]

I haven't seen Following, but I've loved every one of Nolan's movies I've seen. Like Sam Mendes, he is fast becoming one of my favorite filmmakers of all the new/fairly new filmmakers to rise up the past several years.

And The Prestige looks totally awsome. So far, all of the movies I've been hopeful in being great have ended up coming up short. Hollywoodland, The Black Dahlia, All the King's Men and yes, even The Departed have been good but not great movies. Hopefully, The Prestige will buck the trend and be the first great movie of the fall season.

[NightStalkerGtx]

The Prestige has my money O.W and I'm gald you liked it, because a 7/10 from you prob means a 9/10 from me:)

[MadsenOMC]

I don't blame you Strider. That is probably what I would do too. I would recommend keeping your expectations in check. I think I let mine get too high and become a little unrealistic, to the where I was setting myself up for disappointment. It's a good movie and solid entertainment but really nothing more. ilovemovies, IMO it is much better than Hollywoodland and Black Dahlia. I did like The Departed a little more though.

[Bourne101]

I will probably see this, but I'm not as excited for it as I was when I first saw the trailer. And I really cannot see this being better than The Departed.

[Tyler_Durden_208]

Being as the Prestige doesn't seem to be trying to be clever for clever's sake, I think I'll like it a bit more than the Departed.

[ZenDude]

Looking forward to this! I realy dont think about will I like one movie over another. I only go into a movie hoping I'll like period. :)

[Moviefan02000]

I actually don't think it seems that great. It has an excellent cast, and an excellent director, but the trailer is definitely underwhelming. I might see it in theaters at some point.

[jolanar]

I don't see myself liking this more than the unexpected delight that was The Illusionist. I will be seeing it in the theatre though if for no other reason than it's amazing cast.

[Scorpio24]

I can't wait to see this film. Great cast, great director. good times hopefully.

[daddiefatsacks]

like Strider, i couldn't read more than the rating, but with this cast, and Nolan directing, i HAVE to check it out.

[blankpage]

Christopher Nolan has been consistently turning out solid work throughout his career so far, and this looks like another high point on his resumé. There's something about Nolan's films, they've always had the ability to pull me in from the get go, and this just seems like another one that'll have me right away. Not to mention, Jackman and Bale together is just common sense. So, this is another film to add to the busy weekend schedule.

[chinton]

interesting how divided this movie is making audiences.

[TylerDurden182]

Can't wait to see this tomorrow.

[DaMovieMan]

I want to see this one but it might have to wait a little while. Although the story, the cast, the director = gold, I want to see the Departed again (+ I doubt it will be better than the Departed which stands at #2 film of the year so far) and then the next one in the cine will probably be Borat...Jagshemash!!
Although,
I am very curious to see how far Nikola Tesla is taken (and if Bowie does a good job with him). Underrated genius of science.


DMM

[DarkKnight81]

9/10....Gripping story, terrific performances, and Scarlett Johansen's cleavage...what's not to love about this movie? Chris Nolan does it again and remains undefeated in my book, go see this now if you're a fan of his. My only gripe that keeps this from getting a perfect 10 is the last 5 minutes are a little unneccessary and sort of take away from what the whole movie is about. But either way, great movie.

[TornDaredevil]

Well.... ummmmmm.... I think my expectations hurt my overall experience. I guess I was expecting them to reinvent the wheel of cinematic twists. The movie was great, but the payoff really wasn't worth all the fuss. I really don't know what else to say. Great performances all around, everything was amazing. I mean, the ending was OK, but it didn't blow me away liked I had heard it would.

So... 7.5/10? That's a little higher than I would actually give it at this moment, but I'm factoring in my disappointment of the ending and trying to settle on a fair score.

[ElderPredator]

I'm pissing myself to see this movie! I'll be going with my friend tomorrow night (Saturday) to see it! :D

[cletus66]

The Prestiege was one of my most highly anticipated movies of the fall. And now that I have seen it I can't say that I was dissappointed but I can't say I was satisfied either. The Prestiege was much like The Illusionist to me, a good movie but definitely not great. All involved did fine jobs with their roles but there was sometihng missing.

So if you are going into The Prestiege with sky high expectations prepare to be dissappointed. Is is a good drama but nowhere near being one of the best films of the year.

7/10

[TylerDurden182]

The Prestige- 10/10

Loved every minute of it.

[NightStalkerGtx]

Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!





Can someone please tell me if Christian Bales character really has magic powers?











End Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jackson13]

Great movie, but I have honestly not been the confused about a storyline/ending in a long time.

I'll wait until more people have seen it before I discuss.

[ToRontoRon]

Originally posted by NightStalkerGtx
Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!





Can someone please tell me if Christian Bales character really has magic powers?











End Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!



***********HUGE SPOILERS************



Read at own peril...


Well, Bale's character certainly doesn't. He does the "Transported Man" trick with his identical twin brother. The only question is if Jackman's character does. I'm a little confused, but personally I don't think so. I think there's a bigger twist that I'm not completely comprehending yet.

I read a review from David Ansen through Rotten Tomatoes. Here's the end of it:

"At the end of this dark entertainment three twists await: one you will certainly see coming, another you may have figured out just before it happens, and the final may be so tricky you won't quite piece it all together until after you've left the theater (the "explanation" whizzes by so fast it can be hard to catch.) Take the movie's first words to heart: watch closely. You'll be well rewarded."

I think the 1st is referring to the fact that his assistant guy is actually Bale. (Can you believe it, I was sitting next to two girls in the theater who actually "oooed" when it was revealed that Bale had a twin... How can you not see that coming? Not to toot my own horn, but I had this figured out fairly early on. When the wife would say some days he loved her and some days he didn't, I had a feeling that that would be the twist.)

I think the 2nd is referring to the fact that that mysterious man who had possession of the box after the incident which killed Jackman's character was actually Jackman's character himself.

I think the 3rd is referring to the final shot of the drowned Jackman character in the tank. So did I miss something here that should have hit me after I left the theatre?


I assumed almost right from the get-go that it was the look-alike and not Jackman's character who had drowned. So could that box magically create new people? No.

So here's what I think, and keep in mind I only saw this once so I may be WAY the Hell off (For simplicity sake, I'm just gonna call the actors by their names, and not their character's names.):

The code in Bale's diary was Tesla, indicating that he knows and has a relationship with Tesla and his magical box thingy. Therefore he let Johansson take the diary and give it to Jackman, knowing he would somehow find a way to ask Bale for the code, being Tesla. He then knew that that would lead Jackman to Tesla. Bale then went ahead and asked Tesla to stage this machine that creates dopplegangers by placing a bunch of hats/cats in a spot Jackman would find, thus making Jackman assume the machine worked. The fact that science "unpredictably" puts the doubles in a certain place made it impossible for Jackman to know that it didn't actually work. Bale somehow made a deal with Jackman's doppleganger, unbeknownst to Jackman. Bale made sure to make a double of all of Jackman's clothes, so that when he used the machine, his doppleganger would always be wearing the clothes Jackman was wearing, making it appear as though he had just created a clone. He also had to make sure that the gun Jackman shot his first, "clone" with would have some sort of red dye, and possibly a narcotic that would put him out and make him appear dead, just on the off chance that he would shoot the clone not believing his eyes.

As for the night of the murder, Jackman would look for Bale in the audience, and when he saw that Bale took the stage to inspect the box, and that it happened to be the "clone's" turn to be the "guy in the box", while waiting backstage to emerge, he quickly arranged for the tank with the water to be put under the trap door. He knew that Bale would sneak backstage, and figured murdering his clone would be a good way to frame Bale for his murder. He allowed Bale to have his diary so that Bale would make this revelation in prison, not realizing that it was Bale's brother who was actually there.


Am I way off? Close? What do you guys think?




***********END SPOILERS***************

[Digifruitella]

Ok, i just got back...and my review: Simply BADASS!!!!

[bankholdup]

SPOILERS!!!

What was the significance of showing Jackman's body (clone?) in the water tank for the last shot of the film? At first I assumed it was a clone, shown prominently at the end to get the audience to think maybe it was the real Jackman...or maybe not, getting the audience in on thinking whether it's a true illusion or not, like they would with a magic trick.

Or then again maybe it actually was Jackman's body in the tank at the end, and that he died trying the trick the very first time with Tesla's machine, therefore making the Jackman that Bale shoots actually a clone.

...there were clones...right? Otherwise how could the trick have been done so many times? I assumed Jackman had to have his clones killed for each performance ("sacrificing", as Bale said).

/SPOILERS

I don't know, there is alot of information (or misinformation) thrown throughout the film, particularly the end. It's very hard to know what to trust, much like a magic act. I just know I really really enjoyed this film. 8.5/10

[TornDaredevil]

Originally posted by ToRontoRon
***********HUGE SPOILERS************



Read at own peril...


Well, Bale's character certainly doesn't. He does the "Transported Man" trick with his identical twin brother. The only question is if Jackman's character does. I'm a little confused, but personally I don't think so. I think there's a bigger twist that I'm not completely comprehending yet.

I read a review from David Ansen through Rotten Tomatoes. Here's the end of it:

"At the end of this dark entertainment three twists await: one you will certainly see coming, another you may have figured out just before it happens, and the final may be so tricky you won't quite piece it all together until after you've left the theater (the "explanation" whizzes by so fast it can be hard to catch.) Take the movie's first words to heart: watch closely. You'll be well rewarded."

I think the 1st is referring to the fact that his assistant guy is actually Bale. (Can you believe it, I was sitting next to two girls in the theater who actually "oooed" when it was revealed that Bale had a twin... How can you not see that coming? Not to toot my own horn, but I had this figured out fairly early on. When the wife would say some days he loved her and some days he didn't, I had a feeling that that would be the twist.)

I think the 2nd is referring to the fact that that mysterious man who had possession of the box after the incident which killed Jackman's character was actually Jackman's character himself.

I think the 3rd is referring to the final shot of the drowned Jackman character in the tank. So did I miss something here that should have hit me after I left the theatre?


I assumed almost right from the get-go that it was the look-alike and not Jackman's character who had drowned. So could that box magically create new people? No.

So here's what I think, and keep in mind I only saw this once so I may be WAY the Hell off (For simplicity sake, I'm just gonna call the actors by their names, and not their character's names.):

The code in Bale's diary was Tesla, indicating that he knows and has a relationship with Tesla and his magical box thingy. Therefore he let Johansson take the diary and give it to Jackman, knowing he would somehow find a way to ask Bale for the code, being Tesla. He then knew that that would lead Jackman to Tesla. Bale then went ahead and asked Tesla to stage this machine that creates dopplegangers by placing a bunch of hats/cats in a spot Jackman would find, thus making Jackman assume the machine worked. The fact that science "unpredictably" puts the doubles in a certain place made it impossible for Jackman to know that it didn't actually work. Bale somehow made a deal with Jackman's doppleganger, unbeknownst to Jackman. Bale made sure to make a double of all of Jackman's clothes, so that when he used the machine, his doppleganger would always be wearing the clothes Jackman was wearing, making it appear as though he had just created a clone. He also had to make sure that the gun Jackman shot his first, "clone" with would have some sort of red dye, and possibly a narcotic that would put him out and make him appear dead, just on the off chance that he would shoot the clone not believing his eyes.

As for the night of the murder, Jackman would look for Bale in the audience, and when he saw that Bale took the stage to inspect the box, and that it happened to be the "clone's" turn to be the "guy in the box", while waiting backstage to emerge, he quickly arranged for the tank with the water to be put under the trap door. He knew that Bale would sneak backstage, and figured murdering his clone would be a good way to frame Bale for his murder. He allowed Bale to have his diary so that Bale would make this revelation in prison, not realizing that it was Bale's brother who was actually there.


Am I way off? Close? What do you guys think?




***********END SPOILERS***************

I think you're way off. Tesla's machine did work. The final shot was of one of Jackman's clones. That's why they were shown removing a water tank at the end of each show, to remove each dead body for storage.

[TylerDurden182]

Originally posted by TornDaredevil
Tesla's machine did work. The final shot was of one of Jackman's clones. That's why they were shown removing a water tank at the end of each show, to remove each dead body for storage.

Yep... that's what I got from it.

[outsyder]

SPOILERS CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!















Jackman wanted to be the one taking the bow, so it was always his clone who died and Jackman was transported elsewhere. If this was true, the first time he did the trick, his clone was the one who grabbed the gun and killed him LONG before the end of the film.

Still didn't like the last bit of the film, though. Otherwise it was pretty good. 7/10

Either way, I didn't exactly like how the machine was just 'magic' and we were supposed to go along with it.

[ToRontoRon]

Originally posted by outsyder
SPOILERS CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Either way, I didn't exactly like how the machine was just 'magic' and we were supposed to go along with it.


****SPOILERS****


Exactly. I hated that too. That's what makes me think there must be something more to it.

If the actual ending is that these clones were being made, then that's just terrible. I'm just wondering if there's something else we're supposed to find if we're "watching closely". Little things like Michael Caine's magic trick with the bird to Bale's daughter where the one bird is sacrificed while the brother appears to the child, just before Bale walks in, and stuff like that make a large part of the movie brilliant. But if the supernatural crap is all there is to the end of the movie, then in my opinion, it ruins it. Actual perfect human cloning in the late 1800's?... Please.

Magicians try to make you believe something impossible, while all the while there's something very plausible explaining it. That's what I think the point is with the end of this movie. But if there's nothing plausible holding it together, it's just a shitty cop out.

For now, I'm going to say that the ending ruins the movie, but if I find out there's something deeper to the conclusion that makes logical sense, I reserve the right to change my opinion and call the movie a brilliant masterpiece.


****END SPOILERS****

[jolanar]

SPOILERS:


Overall it was a very well made movie that entertained me enough throughout. Excellent performances by all involved. Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale, Michael Caine, David Bowie all had stellar performances, but Scarlet's role basically boiled down to a pretty face (loved her in those outfits tho! :cool: )

The story wasn't that confusing to follow really, although it takes getting used to since they kept switching from present to past, to even further past.

Some things were very very obvious. First and foremost was that Christan Bale's 'associate' was a double. Second was that Jackman's "murder" in one of the first scenes shown, wasn't him really dying.

A few things I wasn't too sure about... was Christian Bales double his identical twin, or was it a clone like Jackman's were? The movie hinted that Bordan had visited Tesla before Angier did, but what was the result of that visit? Bordan clearly didn't know how Angier was doing his trick, therefore we should be able to conclude that he had no idea what the machine did. But then how did he make a clone?

Also, the very last shot that showed a dead Angier (Jackman) in one of the water cases signifacant? It was blatently obvious at that point that Jackman was killing a clone every time he performed the trick. Assumedly to make it so there was only one of him at a time. So why show the dead clone in the water tank? To reveal something we already knew? Did the writers really think they kept that a secret, or was it something else?

A lot of questions that could lead to uber massive plot holes. The movie could have done a lot better explaining itself than it did. Who knows though, maybe I missed something.

Nonetheless it was very entertaining, well made film. I thought the single best line in the film was when Angier, recently shot, was explaining why he did magic tricks. To see the peoples faces. That Bordan, all along was doing magic for the wrong reason, didn't understand.

The Prestige - 7/10

[DarkKnight81]

Originally posted by outsyder
SPOILERS CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
















Either way, I didn't exactly like how the machine was just 'magic' and we were supposed to go along with it.

Exactamundo. I loved every bit of this movie except for the last few minutes where they tried to say that the machine really worked and all these clones were just being killed. A nearly perfect movie with a slight blemish because of this unneccessary extra twist. I figured all along that Jackman rehired his body double to do the last part of the dissapearing act and set him up to die at the last show. Thats how it should have been. Also about Bale and his twin brother, who the hell decides whos going to live and whos going to die?

[DarkKnight81]

SPOILERS!!!




My other gripe with this is they never explained the knot story with Jackman's wife. Obviously he tied the wrong knot because she couldnt go out but they kept going on and on in the storyline about how didnt know for sure and then they never address it again. Also did anyone else notice that when they flashbacked to Jackman's wife dying in the water that she never even tried to get out? She just laid there limp until the curtain came up and then started struggling.

[jolanar]

Originally posted by DarkKnight81
SPOILERS!!!




My other gripe with this is they never explained the knot story with Jackman's wife. Obviously he tied the wrong knot because she couldnt go out but they kept going on and on in the storyline about how didnt know for sure and then they never address it again. Also did anyone else notice that when they flashbacked to Jackman's wife dying in the water that she never even tried to get out? She just laid there limp until the curtain came up and then started struggling.

SPOILERS:


They didn't need to adress it again. I think Bordan wasn't lying when he said he didn't know which knot he tied.

[outsyder]

Oh and SPOILERS*********************************







The brother who died was the one who loved Olivia (Scarlett Johansson). The one who lived had a daughter, where the other who died had no children.


Originally posted by jolanar
SPOILERS:


They didn't need to adress it again. I think Bordan wasn't lying when he said he didn't know which knot he tied.


I agree with this statement.

[ChemicalRomance]

Not going to lie...

I am really really torn on this movie.

Isn't everyone else?

7/10

[outsyder]

Originally posted by ChemicalRomance
Not going to lie...

I am really really torn on this movie.

Isn't everyone else?

7/10


Yeah. I can only hope I'm too dull to see the real secret that would make everything fall into place, because other than the ending it was a pretty good movie.

[chinton]

Put up a longer review tommorow becuase I'm tired but with this movie I had an Enternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind experience. When I watched I really liked it and gave it an 7/10

But having now really thought about the film and it's many intricacies it has easily gone up to a 9/10

I loved the eithcs and morals that the ending brought up. Will write more later.

9/10

[Silverload]

Originally posted by bankholdup
[b]SPOILERS!!!

What was the significance of showing Jackman's body (clone?) in the water tank for the last shot of the film? At first I assumed it was a clone, shown prominently at the end to get the audience to think maybe it was the real Jackman...or maybe not, getting the audience in on thinking whether it's a true illusion or not, like they would with a magic trick.

Or then again maybe it actually was Jackman's body in the tank at the end, and that he died trying the trick the very first time with Tesla's machine, therefore making the Jackman that Bale shoots actually a clone.

...there were clones...right? Otherwise how could the trick have been done so many times? I assumed Jackman had to have his clones killed for each performance ("sacrificing", as Bale said).

/SPOILERS


*****Spoilers*****

I think Jackman was committing suicide with every act he did and that was his sacrifice, leaving his clone to continue the act. But didn’t he say that he didn’t know which one was the real him and which was the clone?

*****End Spoilers****


Anyways, I loved this movie! It gets a solid thumbs up from me.

[Lazy Boy]

8/10

Will write more later, but this reminded me a lot of Primer, in some elements (those who have seen that film will know what I mean). Looking back, I could say some things were obvious (always remain skeptical when characters are said to have died, offscreen), but Chris Nolan's narrative jiggery confounded my expectations and managed to delay the obviousness of it all.

Agree with chinton, there's a larger picture here: notice the year is 1899, nearing the onset of the new age in London, the dark underbelly of science.

[ChemicalRomance]

Just wrote this on the RottenTomatoes board:

Man, I saw this tonight and I am just so torn about it.

Obviously like many people here and film lovers everywhere this one had me foaming. In terms of acting, directing, and all the cinematic mumbo jumbo it excels.

But I don't know. At 135 minutes it takes quite a bit of time to get to the really juicy and interesting stuff.

To be honest, I have a ton of trouble with accents in film and really had to strain to understand a lot of Bale's dialogue and some of Jackman's. As the movie wound down and dialogue became crucial I noticed that I wasn't hearing everything and I was getting very frustrated.

And what about that ending? Is it genius, is it painful? Is it just a cop out? I think it's all of these things but I just don't know.

This movie just has me torn straight down the middle. One reason I have to like it, one reason I have to not like it.

7/10

[dannywalker17]

My expectations for this movie were dangerously high, but I'm happy to say they were more than fulfilled. About half way through the movie, I was worried the Prestige's "prestige" would be disappointing, but the twists kept coming and ultimately it was an awesome ending.

10/10 or A+
Best of the year so far.


SPOILERS FOR THE ENDING


Regarding the ongoing discussion, and forgive me if I missed where this was already explained. In the final shots as the theatre is burning, we see dozens of the water tanks. Bale didn't try to kill him as the murder trial supposed. Jackman was killing one of the duplicates every time the same way. Every one of those tanks contained a duplicate. Also, he says that "he never knew if he'd be transported to the balcony or the body that fell in the tank". The clone must have had the same memories and consciousness as the original, so as not to matter which one he appeared as.


END SPOILERS

[The Heart Collector]

SPOILERS



Saw this movie tonight, and thought it was excellent. The 2 main characters were very well-defined and I loved the dilemmas they had. I think the ending is meant to tell you that every time Jackman performed this trick, he was pretty much killing himself and a clone was being made. He wanted to fuck Christian Bale up so badly he was pretty much willing to die in order to do it, and he did. He dies in the tank, it just so happens that a clone of him is still around somewhere. It also ties in with the speech about the audiences and all that shit, they're so obsessed with wowing people that a little death is no problem.

I'm retarded and didn't guess the Bale twin twist. Which is funny because I repeatedly thought "Hmm, I wonder who the actor playing Bale's buddy is. Considering the caliber of the actors in the movie, he has to be someone famous. RIGHT?!?" LOL right.

I also don't understand people's complaints about the tesla machine. First of all, it wasn't magic. That's one of the reasons why it's a GOOD twist. It would have been bullshit for the movie to be like 'yeah, Bale HAS REAL POWERS, LOL!!!'. Tesla is a scientist, and he creates a machine with scientifically does some shit which could look 'magical' but it isn't 'magic'. Yes, the movie may not necesarily be scientifically accurate, but quite frankly, most movies aren't. And second of all... I realize this movie is about magicians and deception and whatnot, but Tesla isn't a magician. When the movie shows you that the machine works, it shows you that the machine works. That's it. It's not like it's only at the end that you figure out what's going. There's no real doubt to the validity of the machine because there's absolutely no reason Tesla, who is the opposite of Bale and Hackman, would trick them.

Bale and Hackman acted pretty well. Nolan's direction was great. I liked. 8/10

[mentobe]

Well, I suppose I'm in the total minority here. I can honestly say I don't think as highly about the movie as everyone else seems to be.

I went into this movie expecting nothing. I like the actors, as well as the director. Magic isn't something I'm totally interested in, nor have I ever really taken much interest in it--but I wasn't allowing that to stand in my way of seeing the movie.

I honestly had no clue about what the plot entailed. I just remember seeing the trailer months ago and thinking "Wow, that looks pretty cool." So, once I had found out from a friend a few days ago that this was it's opening weekend, I made it a point to go check it out with 2 of my friends.

One of them liked it a lot. He found it really interesting and thought-provoking, and generally dug the whole twists and turns that the movie had going for it.

My other friend hated it. He actually got up and walked out during the last 10 minutes of the movie to go to take a piss, as he said that he found it more interesting than seeing the end of the movie.

Me, personally, I'm in the middle, leaning more towards my friend who didn't like it. I found the acting good, the directing great, and even the (general) story decent and intriguing, for the most part. However, there were also times during the movie that I found to be very bland, and drug out especially towards the end. Particularly when one certain "revelation" occurs, which I found to honestly be pretty stupid. It was completely unplausable, and almost took away from the serious nature the film had going for it otherwise. Magic is one thing, but what happens with this character I found to be totally one of those things that happens in a movie and you're just like "Wait...What? Seriously?" and I honestly hated it. It's like the movie was trying too hard to force us into the whole "mystical/believing the unbelievable" theme it was trying to create and ran a little too far with that ball. And from that point, for me, it just drug out. I kept looking at the time, and hoping that the end of the movie would come quickly.

The first hour or so of the movie was enjoyable, but the more I reflect on the movie, the more I feel that the second half of the movie took a turn that just didn't sit well with me.


6/10

[jackson13]

Maybe its just my town, but I dont think this movie is going to do very good this weekend. In a town of 14,000 people, at a 7pm showing opening night, my parents and I were the only ones there. And when we got out, they cut the credits before they were even over to get on with the second show, and only 3 people were waiting in line to see it.

Not a good sign.

[jolanar]

Originally posted by jackson13
Maybe its just my town, but I dont think this movie is going to do very good this weekend. In a town of 14,000 people, at a 7pm showing opening night, my parents and I were the only ones there. And when we got out, they cut the credits before they were even over to get on with the second show, and only 3 people were waiting in line to see it.

Not a good sign.

Don't worry. My theatre made up for it. It was packed with 14 year old girls who giggled the entire movie.

[DarkKnight81]

Originally posted by jackson13
Maybe its just my town, but I dont think this movie is going to do very good this weekend. In a town of 14,000 people, at a 7pm showing opening night, my parents and I were the only ones there. And when we got out, they cut the credits before they were even over to get on with the second show, and only 3 people were waiting in line to see it.

Not a good sign.

You're town isnt the only one. I went to what is usually the busiest theatre in town but it was dead last night. The Prestige was only playing on one screen with only 4 viewings while the The Grudge 2 was on 2 screens. I went to the 730 show which I expected to be packed but it wasnt even half full. Hopefully word or mouth gets around that this movie is good and more people will go see it.

[bankholdup]

Hmm...after much thinking, I am going to drop this film to an 8/10, down from my 8.5/10. I loved this film, but the more I think, the more some things were just a bit too much...a damn strong 8/10, though.

[blankpage]

Like many others, I was kind of conflicted and torn about things. I, too, think there's gotta be more going on then meets the eye, and the film basically hasn't left my mind since I saw it last night. I find it interesting because I liked how the film sort of played out like a magic trick, it followed the same three structures, but the only problem is is that a magic trick is usually a minute or two at the most, while this while was over 2 hours. The whole time everything seemed to be working towards the ending, and it kept me interested, but at the same time, it just felt sort of tedious. But, I dunno, the more I do think about, the more I really do appreciate the film, and I begin to like it more and more. It's definitely a film I wouldn't mind checking out again for the sheer fact I honestly haven't picked up on everything that is going on. Though, it has helped reading some of the posts, and doing some thinking after the film. I think this is Nolan's most ambitious film to date, for the sheer fact that he's putting out something really good, but could lose the viewer at any time. That's what I kind of got from it. As for the acting and all that, I thought everyone did a kickass job. I'm big fans of Bale and Jackman, and both were pretty damn good.

Anyway, I was leaning more towards a 7, but I'm giving this one a damn solid 8/10. It's definitely a film that takes a while to sink in, but once it does, there's a lot to appreciate and love.

[LarrytheTVDemon]

9/10

I loved it. What really like about it was that it had so many twists and turns (the latter term being part of the magician act, which is what this movie is about partly. I found this to be quite clever) right up to he very end.

The fact that we are discussed how everything came to really be suggest there more mystery in this film than usual, I think it's great.

ToRontoRon : Interesting theory you have there but I think it's unlikely because if anything Bale's character would have to have considerable funds to do it. Tesla is looking for any funding he can and I seriously doubt he would be in co-hoots with Bale without some of said funds upfront. Since it was show that Bale and his wife was struggling to make ends meet, this seems impossible. Of course, Bale's character was capable of living double life (with his phlisophy of "living the act" and all), so may had a secret stash of money somewhere that he used. However, since that wasn't ever revealed as such it's only speculation.


There was the actors,story,script and presention that recommneded this film as well . Everyone was convicing and film itself look wonderful.

This has been the best film I seen this year so far.

[chinton]

First thing some general comments about this film. Did anybody notice that this was an art film spruced up as a mainstream film. While I admit it was too long I thought it was interesting that for a mainstream it was a truly nasty piece of work that went to some really dark subject areas. Then you have two profitiable leads playing absolute bastards as lead characters. I really admired that.

One of many things that I think a lot of people including critics are completely missing is how fascianting the structure is. I loved how the movie had visual clues such as the contastantly used visual motif of doubles (it was everywhere). I also loved the structure of the screenplay where you had one character reading a diary in whcih you had another character reading a diary as well about that same character. While I thought the film was compelling and borught up some interesting moral dilemmas what I loved is that this movie was constructed as a magic trick. Think about the different things the film held off until the end. The more I think about this film the more I admire it. Now for spoilers:


Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Three things



1. Okay as far as the last shot goes there is a third twist, but it has NOTHING to do with the last shot. There were three twists or prestiges to this film. One in which we learn that Bale has a double and two that we learn that Angier's machine is real but creates a double which must be gotten rid off. The final twist is that the Angier at the end isn't even the real Angier but rather a clone that shot the real one.

But you see it's dilemmas like this that makes the movie so memorable. First thing people keep saying clones but is that really the right term? For some reaosn I think a duplicate is a better word. So if a duplicate shot the first Angier and a duplicate has been killing off the other duplicates how is this morally wrong. How do you even begin to gaugge the ethics of duplicates killing off duplicates. Angier's sacrifice is actually many fold. First, he himself could easily be the one who's drowing. Second he has to kill off 100 of his duplicates. I find that to be a pretty difficult thing. He's also pretty much playing God.



2. As far as the twist with Angier while I expected it I think people are missing the beauty in the way it was executed. I knew there was a double, but I loved how they played that last scene. Bale 1 is about to be hung. He says Abracadabra. Red Ball bounces away. Cut to Angier being shot and red ball rolls to the double perfectly mimicking The Transported Man. That was Borden's final trick. Just wonderful. Also, what I thought was interesting was not that they were doubles but rather the extent they would go through to create this life i.e sharing wives and girlfriends. Really sad.

Did you notice how he started this deception from the very first moment he met his wife with the switch in the room. Just a fascianting idea. And I loved how they set-up with Borden reconizing the Chinese Man's trick. Of course, he would reconize it. He was doing it himself.


3. I also loved how the movie contatly shifted your loyalties. It was actually funny watching the audience constantly be cheering back and forth for the supposed "good guy" until they realized it was useless.


4. Did anybody notice that the movie had two great shots to open and close the film.



End Spoilers





9/10

[The Heart Collector]

SPOILERS!!!!!!







Originally posted by ToRontoRon
If the actual ending is that these clones were being made, then that's just terrible. I'm just wondering if there's something else we're supposed to find if we're "watching closely". Little things like Michael Caine's magic trick with the bird to Bale's daughter where the one bird is sacrificed while the brother appears to the child, just before Bale walks in, and stuff like that make a large part of the movie brilliant. But if the supernatural crap is all there is to the end of the movie, then in my opinion, it ruins it. Actual perfect human cloning in the late 1800's?... Please.

There's nothing 'supernatural' about it. Tesla is a scientist. What he creates is all based on science. His machine and the clone idea aren't supposed to be 'supernatural'. I understand why you would think it ruins it, but think about it. I mean really think about it. Tesla's assistant impresses Hugh Jackman with some magic. And what's the magic he impresses him with? Some fucking light bulbs. Magic is something that's based on a bunch of random-ass powers and bullshit like that. Science isn't. That's why you have lines like 'exact science isn't an exact science'. Yes, the idea of creating a perfect human double in the late 1800s is fairly implausible, just as it is now. But to me, that's part of the point. Something like that *seems* like magic, just like how a shitload of things that science has discovered must have seemed like magic at the time, but time will make people realize it was just some basic science. Of course they're stretching it a bit with the idea, but I still felt the movie worked well.

Regardless of that, the point wasn't 'oh shit there's clones'. That wasn't even the end of the movie. That was firmly established once the machine works, I mean I thought it was pretty obvious when I saw the different cats that Angier wasn't really going to be dead. The point of the clones was that Angier is so obsessed with receiving the applause and with fucking up Borden that he's willing to do what he thinks is killing a clone of himself. What probably (and ironically) is happening is that Angier kills himself every time he does the trick, failing to hear for himself the applause he so craves, as the clone of himself goes out and completes the trick (and gets that applause he wanted), then dies the next day.

It's a science-fiction movie, ultimately. It's main characters are characters that deal in deception, but the Angier character and the Tesla machine are typical science-fiction devices: you have a scientific device that may or may not even possibly exist in real life, and you study its possible repercussions. The fact that a character has magicians in it doesn't mean that its forbidden from having anything other than cheap little tricks. And even then, the movie itself is telling you NOT to look. Part of the point of the tricks was that once you heard the explanation, they were a lot more simple than you thought. In Angier's trick, it's simple: Angier makes a copy of himself, and makes it appear as if there's just one. Thrilling explanation? no, just as Borden having a twin isn't very thrilling. The thrill is all of the things doing that implies. For Angier it implies his death after every trick, for Borden it implies a life of fakery.


Magicians try to make you believe something impossible, while all the while there's something very plausible explaining it. That's what I think the point is with the end of this movie. But if there's nothing plausible holding it together, it's just a shitty cop out.

I disagree with it being a cop-out, for the same reasons I mentioned before. This isn't part of the ending anyway. Tesla's machine is shown to work like what, midway through the movie? Two thirds, at most. At that point it should be well established that Tesla's machine works (even though its science isn't totally understood by Tesla). Why is that NOT plausible? A considerable amount of scientific discoveries have been done without the scientists knowing what the fuck just happened. You mix a bunch of things, some crazy shit happens, and then you investigate WHY it happened. That's the principle here. Tesla is a scientist (and that's why the movie/book used an established, real historical figure) and he makes some crazy shit happen. The movie doesn't offer a plausible explanation for it because FUCK, Tesla himself doesn't know what the explanation is. But judging by what the machine is, it's safe to assume that the machine isn't some shaman bullshit, but rather some properties of the physical world are seeing their manifestation here. You get what I'm saying? If you thought it was 'magic', you need to pay more attention to Tesla's character and scenes.

For now, I'm going to say that the ending ruins the movie, but if I find out there's something deeper to the conclusion that makes logical sense, I reserve the right to change my opinion and call the movie a brilliant masterpiece.

I disagree here too. It would be total bullshit for the movie to, near the end, be like 'hahaha! we FOOLED you! Tesla's machine didn't ACTUALLY work and this is the ultimate sleigh of hand'. That invalidates the whole movie. It invalidates the idea that the world is grounded in physical rules, which is why even what seems like REAL magic is nothing but science. It invalidates the sacrifices and horrible things that Angier did in order to impress people. If you take out Angier's final trick, the movie becomes an annoying parlor trick.


****END SPOILERS****

[chinton]

Thank you Heart Collector

[The Heart Collector]

Man, i like this movie more the more i think about it. It started pretty crappy but was terrific by the end.

[TornDaredevil]

OK... Spoiler (like everything else in this thread)

Just a quick question... is it possible that when Borden wrote to Angier that Tesla was the source of his magic, that he was telling the truth and that's how he got his 'brother?' Is it possible that his 'brother' was a clone made by Tesla? I don't think so, but I am really curious.

[The Heart Collector]

spoiler that, please. as for the answer:








SPOILER













I doubt it, since then he would have known how Algier was doing his trick.














SPOILER

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by TornDaredevil
OK... Spoiler (like everything else in this thread)

Just a quick question... is it possible that when Borden wrote to Angier that Tesla was the source of his magic, that he was telling the truth and that's how he got his 'brother?' Is it possible that his 'brother' was a clone made by Tesla? I don't think so, but I am really curious.



SPOILERS****************





















People who have read the book say that it goes into a bit more detail about Bale's twin brother. So, his brother was real. Like HC said, he would've known about Jackman's trick.

[chinton]

Spoilers!!



Also that's the reason why he reconized the Chinese Person's Trick. Also why he didn't remeber what knot he tied. They also hinted at it with the bird trick and the kid asking about his borther. They didn't say it out loud, but the movie made it perfectly clear Fallon/Bale were brothers.

[ToRontoRon]

******SPOILERS**********



The Heart Collector:

I understand your point of view, but I just happen to disagree 100%. I find the idea of a scientist stumbling across a means of creating a perfect clone in the 1800's completely ridiculous. You mention how it's not really "magic" per se, but it might as well have been. By your rationale, why would it be any less ridiculous for Tesla to have stumbled across a way to actually transport a man to another location by breaking down the genetic structure on one end, then having the information sent, like a three dimensional fax machine to another location where the human is reformed. (I got this idea from the wonderful Michael Crichton book called Timeline.) If that were the twist in this movie, otherwise grounded in reality, I would have been equally disappointed. Even though theoretically it's possible, and really no more unrealistic then the actual plot twist in this movie. Bottom line is, even though it's theoretically possible, it might as well be real magic.


As the movie was going on, I was intrigued by how the plot would resolve itself in the end to let you know that it's not actual "magic", that's resulting in these apparent clones being created, but some other plausible explanation. Unfortunately, that other plausible explanation never emerged.

Q: How did the bird cage trick happen, was it actual magic?
A: No. One bird is killed, and another bird is revealed as the original.

Q: How did the girl tied up in the water tank trick happen, was it actual magic?
A: No. The knots were tied in such a way, by people placed in the audience, to allow her to get out... Well, in theory anyway. ;)

Q: How did Bordon's transported man trick work, was it actual magic?
A: No. His twin brother emerged on the other side.

Q: How did Angier's transported man trick work, was it actual magic?
A: Yes, apparently it was. Oh, but that's ok, because the Angier you thought was Angier was a clone the whole time. The real Angier was killed by the first clone, and everytime the trick happens another clone is murdered. Isn't that a cool twist that makes up for the gigantic leap of faith you have to take to accept the idea of perfect clones in the 1800's? Not to me it isn't.


I'm glad you enjoyed it, but to me it's one of the biggest cop-out endings I've ever seen. imo, the cloning thing is an infuriating, ridiculous plot twist that takes an otherwise wonderful movie grounded in reality, and turns it into some sci-fi crap. If the rest of the movie wasn't so damn great I wouldn't have cared that much. It's ironic that Christopher Nolan, who went out of his way to make Batman Begins as realistic as possible, directed this. On the extra DVD for Batman Begins, he even mentions how he wanted to take a superhero book, but make it as believable as possible. I think that's why I loved Batman Begins so much. The attention to detail, and the fact that it's grounded in reality.

I think a more satisfying plot twist for "The Prestige" than the shite that was given to us would have been for both magicians to go backstage and change into their respective Batman and Wolverine costumes and fight it out on stage in front of a stunned audience. At least that would have been somewhat grounded in reality.


********END SPOILERS*********

[bob]

I thought it was brilliant...very intriguing, complex, and entertaining.

I loved all the twists and turns, and I think that it's one of those films where it's easy to "get" the twists, but it's only after you walk out that you understand the repercussions of them.

[Jumpman8323]

Originally posted by ToRontoRon
******SPOILERS**********






imo, the cloning thing is an infuriating, ridiculous plot twist that takes an otherwise wonderful movie grounded in reality, and turns it into some sci-fi crap.






********END SPOILERS*********






You do know that the movie was based on a sci-fi novel right?

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by ToRontoRon
By your rationale, why would it be any less ridiculous for Tesla to have stumbled across a way to actually transport a man to another location by breaking down the genetic structure on one end, then having the information sent, like a three dimensional fax machine to another location where the human is reformed. (I got this idea from the wonderful Michael Crichton book called Timeline.) If that were the twist in this movie, otherwise grounded in reality, I would have been equally disappointed. Even though theoretically it's possible, and really no more unrealistic then the actual plot twist in this movie. Bottom line is, even though it's theoretically possible, it might as well be real magic.

SPOILERS









The reason its clones instead of actual transportation is for thematic reasons. It goes with Algier's speech at the end, as well as with the general theme of obsession in the movie. The clones are the example of Algier having to get his hands dirty. In order to wow the audience, he's effectively killing himself. He doesn't get to hear the applause that he desires. His clone does. Then after his clone has gotten the applause he desires, he'll die the next day performing the trick while a new clone is the one listening to the audience being wowed.

There's no point in the trick being actual transportation. Think about it this way:

The two twists were "how does this magician perform his Transported Man trick?"

The REAL part of the story is "how does the Transported Man trick affect the magician as a person?"

Borden does the trick by pretending he's one people when in reality they're twins. This massively fucks up his life.

What does Algier do? Yes, I can see how it might seem a little annoying (though I disagree that it is) how there's an element in the movie that isn't just parlor tricks, but it makes sense. There's no point in Algier's Transported Man trick to be some ploy. It's the clone thing because that's how the trick affects the magician as a person. If we treat all the Algiers as one, he has to kill himself, and at the same time he has to allow himself to die. That's how it affects his humanity.

Algier's Transported Man trick can't be an actual trick. It can't be a clever bit of deception because a clever bit of deception has no repercussions. It has to be something as extreme as Borden's. Even more extreme. That's why at the end of the movie, even though Borden wasn't really the good guy, he has some of his humanity. Algier, on the other hand, is pretty much a monster.

There's no way to make Algier's trick a real trick without it massively sucking. I actually thought of one way they could. The only way it would have worked is if Algier never performed The Transported Man, and during the opening night he set it up so that he would die and Borden would be framed for his murder, that being Algier's sacrifice. But that leaves out the fact that ultimately, Algier wanted to be the best magician as much (maybe even more) than he wanted to fuck Borden up.



END SPOILERS

[Vong]

I loved the film, though like the Departed, the constant time travel really got to me.

*****SPOILERS*******


Did the Michael Caine character permit Bale to kill Jackman? Just before Jackman dies, Caine tells him that drowing was not like "going home", but it felt like "agony". Was that a sign? Or was it just commenting on Jackman's clones and how they each felt after his tricks?

During the movie, I was constantly looking to see which character was the "villain". At first I thought it was Bale because of Jackman's death, then it switched to Jackman because of his obsession. Then it went back to Bale because of his constant interference's with Jackman's performances.

By the way, I was curious as to which Bale got it at the end. Was it the one who let Sarah die? Or was it the one who loved Olivia? I guess it made sense to let the one who loved Olivia get it, since the father should have been the one to survive to take care of his daugher.

At first I thought the whole cloning thing was a really cheap gimmick for the story, but after seeing the movie I felt that it played well in the story. I just never expected the film would be a science fiction movie...

[ToRontoRon]

Originally posted by Jumpman8323
You do know that the movie was based on a sci-fi novel right?

No, I didn't. I guess that's just not what I was looking for.

[ToRontoRon]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
SPOILERS









The reason its clones instead of actual transportation is for thematic reasons. It goes with Algier's speech at the end, as well as with the general theme of obsession in the movie. The clones are the example of Algier having to get his hands dirty. In order to wow the audience, he's effectively killing himself. He doesn't get to hear the applause that he desires. His clone does. Then after his clone has gotten the applause he desires, he'll die the next day performing the trick while a new clone is the one listening to the audience being wowed.

There's no point in the trick being actual transportation. Think about it this way:

The two twists were "how does this magician perform his Transported Man trick?"

The REAL part of the story is "how does the Transported Man trick affect the magician as a person?"

Borden does the trick by pretending he's one people when in reality they're twins. This massively fucks up his life.

What does Algier do? Yes, I can see how it might seem a little annoying (though I disagree that it is) how there's an element in the movie that isn't just parlor tricks, but it makes sense. There's no point in Algier's Transported Man trick to be some ploy. It's the clone thing because that's how the trick affects the magician as a person. If we treat all the Algiers as one, he has to kill himself, and at the same time he has to allow himself to die. That's how it affects his humanity.

Algier's Transported Man trick can't be an actual trick. It can't be a clever bit of deception because a clever bit of deception has no repercussions. It has to be something as extreme as Borden's. Even more extreme. That's why at the end of the movie, even though Borden wasn't really the good guy, he has some of his humanity. Algier, on the other hand, is pretty much a monster.

There's no way to make Algier's trick a real trick without it massively sucking. I actually thought of one way they could. The only way it would have worked is if Algier never performed The Transported Man, and during the opening night he set it up so that he would die and Borden would be framed for his murder, that being Algier's sacrifice. But that leaves out the fact that ultimately, Algier wanted to be the best magician as much (maybe even more) than he wanted to fuck Borden up.



END SPOILERS


I completely see your point about Algier having to make a huge sacrifice. Ultimately, from a dramatic standpoint the ending was great, but I just didn't want something so unbelievable in the story.

To each his/her own.

[Ender]

Originally posted by ToRontoRon
****SPOILERS****


Exactly. I hated that too. That's what makes me think there must be something more to it.



Unfortunately Ron, your elaborate theory requires even greater suspension of disbelief than the current ending of the film.

For those that were curious, the issue of the knots was that it was one brother who tied the knot that night but the other brother who kept getting asked about it. He said he didn't know because ,honestly, he didn't, he wasn't the one who tied the knot. And as we see in his journal, in which he states "Half of me believes I tied a simple slipknot, while the other believes fervently that it was the double", we see that the brothers argued over it afterwards and the one could apparently not get a straight answer from the other (who either was not sure or simply did not want to come clean about what he'd done).

I think the significance of Jackman's body in the tank at the end was this: That body was recent, it hadn't bloated or decomposed in any way. And yet Jackman had not performed the trick in weeks, if not months! That means that it was a recently created duplicate, meaning that Jackman had indeed been using the machine again, even after swearing he would not. This means that Algier, in some form or another, may still exist somewhere. Was it a duplicate that Bale shot? If so, was the "original" Algier in that tank, or was there yet another version of him still out there? Is this really the end of the story?

I think that the ramifications that the cloning machine has on the story are fascinating, and the questions it raises are well worth the strain it puts on our suspension of disbelief. Imagine Jackman's character having to ask himself after testing the machine, "Am I the real Algier, or am I the copy? Is there any difference between myself and my double? Is it really murder if I'm only killing 'myself'?" And probably the most pressing question: "When the trick is done, will the same man who stepped into the machine be the one standing on the balcony? Or will he be the one in the tank? Do I really get to take my bows this time, or is it just the same old trick with a worse outcome?" It's bizarre, and fascinating, to think about.

[chinton]

Three things:

1. I basically agree with Heart Collector on everything considering the theme of doubles or clones fits into the overall tragic structure of the film it makes sense at least to me. Yes it's wild but when you think about the many many many many many many instances in the film where either through dialogue or visually the theme of doubles is constantly referenced so it actually fit with everything.

2. Anybody else find they like the movie the more and more they think about it. It just has so much going on it. Honeslty why cant we get more mainstream films like this that really have a gutsy are about it.

3. You guys realize that with only four films Nolan has successfully set himself up as aetuer director. I think it's fascianting that no matter what kind of wild subject he somehow finds a way to come to his themes and visual tricks.



Spoilers!!!!


Why isn't anyone mentioning this?

2. Why isn't anyone mentioning Borden's final trick which I thought was so cool but apparently I was the only who got a kick out of it. Not only did Borden get the last laugh but by the way of twins Borden performed The Transported Man one last time and to a sole audience of Angier. Its a subtle point but was I really the only who got this?

[cold]

I had really really high hopes for this movie. Maybe too much. I hyped it up for my lady, who ended up enjoying it more than me.

I thought everything was really well done, the story was great, a bit confusing early on, but it all ironed out. I think it will get a second watch on a $4 ticket this coming week if I have the time, just to rewind and maybe appreciate it more.

My only issues with this movie is that it seems that for the amount of closing they had with the story, tieing it all up. I felt like I was missing some grand grand finale.

7/10. But definately worth watching cause I believe most people will enjoy this.

Also may have been theatre that distracted me, went to a new oen today, stiffest seats in the wrold and despite asking twice the lady behind me kept stubbing her toes on my chair.

[ilovemovies]

Originally posted by chinton


3. You guys realize that with only four films Nolan has successfully set himself up as aetuer director. I think it's fascianting that no matter what kind of wild subject he somehow finds a way to come to his themes and visual tricks.





Actually The Prestige is Nolan's 5th movie. His first movie was a low budget thriller called Following. I haven't seen myself but I really want to.

I hope this movie doesn't let me down like The Departed did. I thought The Departed was good but not great. This looks great and all these reviews are making it sound really great. But I'm very cautious about this movie because this is exactly how it was for The Departed and I was actually kinda disappointed in that movie.

[chinton]

lol true point still stands though.





Also for everyone complaining of the not grounded aspect Nolan does try to ground this movie and successfully to me. The book has some distinct changes in it and the changes are MUCH more supernatural/fantast.

[outsyder]

Originally posted by chinton
Spoilers!!!!


Why isn't anyone mentioning this?

2. Why isn't anyone mentioning Borden's final trick which I thought was so cool but apparently I was the only who got a kick out of it. Not only did Borden get the last laugh but by the way of twins Borden performed The Transported Man one last time and to a sole audience of Angier. Its a subtle point but was I really the only who got this?


SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY

He may have performed it, but in one fell swoop, he made himself worthless (by revealing the trick) and helped Angier realize his obsession.

[ElderPredator]

Hey everybody,

SPOILER WARNING! SPOILER WARNING! SPOILER WARNING!

It's very late tonight and I wasn't planning on doing a review of "The Prestige" but I'm afraid that by tomorrow morning, I'll have forgotten half of the movie due to the sheer complication of it. I went with my best friend to see it tonight and it was absolutely amazing. I also have to say that I've never been so mind-fucked in my life other than "The Usual Suspects".

In one way, the movie and the secrets make complete sense and in the other way, everything seems so much deeper than what it appears to be. I have to first take my hat off to both Jackman and Bale for portraying two brilliant characters that will forever be in my mind. As well, a big round applause for Michael Caine, Scarlett Johansson, Andy Serkis and David Bowie who was awesome in it. I absolutely love his entrance walking through the tesla coil. :D

I feel that this movie goes much deeper than what us schmoes are discussing in this thread because of the first and final shots of the film. It asks us to watch carefully on the hats in the beginning and then the final shot of the dead Angier inside the water tank. The explanation of all the hats was very clear to anyone by the middle of the film so why would they ask us to concentrate on those hats? Did they mean something more? My friend and I worked this out the entire time driving home. :D It was a complete mind-bender but it was so easy that something wasn't quite right the entire time. The Nolan brothers should be commended for writing a terrific screenplay and bringing such a complicated story to the screen even though all the clues were in front of us.

I still believe though that there was more than what we were seeing and that's why I'm dying to see the movie again now. When the movie went to black at the very end, the entire theater was silent and it was amazing because it was almost like we were all trying to figure out the final "prestige" for ourselves and that's what I think the point of the film was. This movie was an amazing experience and one that I won't ever forget!

So, I give it a solid 10/10 both for being the ultimate mind-fuck and for a great cast and crew! Well done chaps! ;)

P.S. Scarlett was so hot in the movie! :D

[ElderPredator]

Originally posted by ToRontoRon
For now, I'm going to say that the ending ruins the movie, but if I find out there's something deeper to the conclusion that makes logical sense, I reserve the right to change my opinion and call the movie a brilliant masterpiece.


You're thinking exactly what I'm thinking as well Toronto. I also think that there was more than what we were seeing. It's like there was something in that first and final shot that had a connection but I just can't see it.

[The Heart Collector]

Elder... the characters repeatedly said that in magic tricks, the real trick is generally really simple and not very impressive.

Now extrapolate that to what the movie says and what you're trying to find in it.


It's actually something I've seen a lot of people say but I disagree. This is the kind of movie that makes you want to find something in it, but the movie itself is telling ya 'nah g-dawg, this is it'

[DareDevil]

A week before the Prestige’s release I stopped reading anything that could be a spoiler so I did not know what to expect. The movie ultimately disappointed me, my main problem is this. *will consist of spoilers*

Hugh Jackman starts off with a clean slate, an up and coming magician who wants to understand magic... then his wife dies, no... then his wife his killed, by Bale, whether it was his twin or him, it no longer makes a difference, Bale killed his wife, he is a murderer, not only that but he drives his own wife to suicide, but this murderer has a daughter and we are suddenly suppose to forget the evils he has performed. The whole movie I felt like Jackman was a victim and was justified in all his actions. and ToTontoRon I agree with you with most everything you said, the machine is not "science" it is magic and I to felt like The Prestige had a cop out ending. But my main problem with the movie is there is no reason to like Bales character(s) next to the fact he has a child.

P.S. Why was Michael Caine with Bale's daughter at the begging and the end? I thought he was on Jackman's side.

p.s.s. Sorry if that post made no sense, 3:30 in the morning, fighting to type.

[Ender]

***SPOILERS!!!***


I think the issue of which of the two magicians is the "bad guy" is up to the interpretation of each viewer. I too initially sympathized with Algiers, but by the end I felt he had gone too far, as apparently had Caine's character. Borden was reckless, stupid, and negligient, but the death he caused was still clearly accidental, whereas Algier commits predmeditated murder. Sure, he feels he's "justified", but what killer doesn't? And this is not even adressing the moral ramifications of his final version of The Transported Man.

I don't see why everyone has such a huge problem with the machine really. In the begining of the film, Caine's character tells us that the machine is magical, constructed by "a wizards". The whole movie we're sitting around waiting for some "real" magic to show up and speculating as to whether Borden or Tesla are capable of true magic or sorcery. What we finally learn is that there is no actual magic, only very advanced science, which is much easier to swallow, in my opinion. Really, at the very least, everyone must admit that the movie didn't fail to set us up for something extraordinary within the narrative from a very early stage.

As long as I'm rambling, something interesting about the ending: It is pretty easy to figure out how Borden does his trick, the whole movie has a theme running through it of doubles and twins, and the Fallon character seems completely superfluos but keeps getting singled out for cameratime for absoloutely no apparent reason, so it's not that hard to put it all together. The interesting thing is that at the midpoint of the movie the solution occurred to me, but I dismissed it, only to later find out that I was right.

Why didn't I listen to my intuition? Perhaps because, as Caine's character points out to us "You weren't really looking for the trick." Like the characters of the film, I wasn't willing to believe such a simple explanation, I was waiting for something bigger to be revealed. So perhaps the twist is obvious on purpose, the idea being that, in a movie which is so much about surprise and misdirection, we will, like the audience of a magic act, disregard the obvious, and convince ourselves that there must be something more going on. How effective such a device is probably depends on the person, but it's still a neat idea, whether it worked or not.

[ElderPredator]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Elder... the characters repeatedly said that in magic tricks, the real trick is generally really simple and not very impressive.

Now extrapolate that to what the movie says and what you're trying to find in it.


It's actually something I've seen a lot of people say but I disagree. This is the kind of movie that makes you want to find something in it, but the movie itself is telling ya 'nah g-dawg, this is it'

I see what you're getting at for sure Heart and I may be just overcomplicating things when I said that there must be something else that we're not seeing. It's like the movie was one big magic trick. It's just so well done the way Nolan put it right in our faces and made it so easy yet so hard. :D

[ElderPredator]

Originally posted by DarkKnight81
You're town isnt the only one. I went to what is usually the busiest theatre in town but it was dead last night. The Prestige was only playing on one screen with only 4 viewings while the The Grudge 2 was on 2 screens. I went to the 730 show which I expected to be packed but it wasnt even half full. Hopefully word or mouth gets around that this movie is good and more people will go see it.

That's very strange because our theater was packed to the bone with no more seats left.

[DonSwoosh]

Ender,

"As long as I'm rambling, something interesting about the ending: It is pretty easy to figure out how Borden does his trick, the whole movie has a theme running through it of doubles and twins, and the Fallon character seems completely superfluos but keeps getting singled out for cameratime for absoloutely no apparent reason, so it's not that hard to put it all together. The interesting thing is that at the midpoint of the movie the solution occurred to me, but I dismissed it, only to later find out that I was right.

Why didn't I listen to my intuition? Perhaps because, as Caine's character points out to us "You weren't really looking for the trick." Like the characters of the film, I wasn't willing to believe such a simple explanation, I was waiting for something bigger to be revealed. So perhaps the twist is obvious on purpose, the idea being that, in a movie which is so much about surprise and misdirection, we will, like the audience of a magic act, disregard the obvious, and convince ourselves that there must be something more going on. How effective such a device is probably depends on the person, but it's still a neat idea, whether it worked or not."

This is the key to the entire film, since it's constructed just like the three acts of a trick. Some will see right through the trick Nolan is using, while others won't.

Cutter basically gives away the secret when he states that the simpliest explaination tends to be the right one.

While watching the film, I figured it out pretty quickly before my wife did but the difference is that she believed in what she saw in Tesla's machine. She didn't question it. But, I did. I was with the film and then, thinking that there is more to this film, I lost myself. I made myself disbelieve what I actually saw when it's all right there.

The clues to the film are right there. Nolan basically dares the audience to catch him doing his trick. Again, some will see right through the situation and won't really be surprised by what happens at the end, others won't. And that's one of many genius aspects to this film.

Once you figure it all out, the other thing that happens is that you concentrate more on the character arcs of the two main characters and it's very interesting to see what these two magicians ultimately did and what they sacrificied.

Again, the more and more you think about this film, the more brilliant it is.....

[NightStalkerGtx]

Saw it.

Loved it.

10/10

The Prestige and The Departed are making up for a bad year at the movies.

One question...

What was the song playing at the end credits as soon as the movie ends.

[Celluloid Love]

***** SPOILERS *****

I really only have a few questions. Everything else about the movie I'm pretty sure I understand.

1. Did Cutter (Michael Caine) know all along that Borden had a twin brother? I want to say yes because he was not surprised when Borden came to pick up his daughter in the end and also because of his stern belief that The Transported Man was done with a double.

2. Why did Cutter say at the trial that Borden did nothing to help Angier when he was in the water tank? Clearly, towards the end of the movie, we are shown that Borden DID try to get Angier out.

3. Which Angier was the original after Tesla's machine is used? I know nobody has the direct answer to this (unless maybe it's in the book somewhere). Part of me wants to say whichever one is in the machine is the original. But that would imply that while Angier survives the first use of the machine, he subsequently kills himself every show. Conversely, if the original is the one that transports, then the original Angier died during that first test run.

***** END SPOILERS *****

I had a lot of hype built up for this movie and when I left the theater, I probably would've given it a 7 or 8 just based on my gut feeling. After thinking about it though for the last 24 hours, I think this movie is at an 8.5/9. I loved the story, the characters, and more importantly, the way the story was told.

[TornDaredevil]

I went again yesterday. I'm upping my score to a 9/10. It only gets better on the second viewing. This is the film that M. Night wishes he had in him. Bravo, Nolan brothers. A beautiful film in more ways that one.

To answer a question from the previous page concerning which Borden was hanged... In watching the second time, it was very clear that the brother with the wife and child was a generally good guy and the other was sort of a reckless punk (but still not a horrible person). The "good" brother is seen saying "we're done, let him have his trick, we're done.," basically telling him to stay away from Angier. But the other one can't stay away and goes to the theater to see the trick once more, and this is where he is set up and eventually executed. So, the one that lives is the one who is the little girl's real father.

[chinton]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Celluloid Love
[B]***** SPOILERS *****

I really only have a few questions. Everything else about the movie I'm pretty sure I understand.

1. Did Cutter (Michael Caine) know all along that Borden had a twin brother? I want to say yes because he was not surprised when Borden came to pick up his daughter in the end and also because of his stern belief that The Transported Man was done with a double.

2. Why did Cutter say at the trial that Borden did nothing to help Angier when he was in the water tank? Clearly, towards the end of the movie, we are shown that Borden DID try to get Angier out.

3. Which Angier was the original after Tesla's machine is used? I know nobody has the direct answer to this (unless maybe it's in the book somewhere). Part of me wants to say whichever one is in the machine is the original. But that would imply that while Angier survives the first use of the machine, he subsequently kills himself every show. Conversely, if the original is the one that transports, then the original Angier died during that first test run.

***** END SPOILERS *****



Im specifically answering your third question. The answer is there is no answer. Like previously mentioned there is no difference between the copy and real one so the answer both becomes moot and ethically challenging.

[chinton]

Originally posted by outsyder
SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY

He may have performed it, but in one fell swoop, he made himself worthless (by revealing the trick) and helped Angier realize his obsession.




And I completely disagree. He revealed his trick to Angier who would soon be dead. He performed The Transported Man one last time, the best version of it, and both kept and revealed his secret. It's really quite brilliant.

[chinton]

You guys do realize that if Cutter was here he would be very dissapointed. This has been mentioned before, but I just think it's another really interesting part of the movie. Cutter warns you several times that secret is usually less complicated than you would think and you only want ti to be more. The movie doesn't cheat. It shows you the machine, what it can do, and the tells you again at the end of the film. Yet, there are still people here that believes it's something more. Really neat trick of the film.

[DonSwoosh]

chinton,

That's why this film is pure genius on a lot of levels. I have to go bak and see it again so I can pick up on the different attitudes and mannerisms of the Borden brothers now that I know there are two of them.

I still believe Fallon is the one that dies at the end, not Alfred (the bad brother) only because Fallon lost his wife.

[NightStalkerGtx]

Originally posted by DonSwoosh
chinton,

That's why this film is pure genius on a lot of levels. I have to go bak and see it again so I can pick up on the different attitudes and mannerisms of the Borden brothers now that I know there are two of them.

I still believe Fallon is the one that dies at the end, not Alfred (the bad brother) only because Fallon lost his wife.


It wasnt Fallon because while one of the twins was walking away from the jail cell, the one on the inside said im "sry about your wife" something like, thus the one of the inside was Alfread not Fallon.

[Celluloid Love]

Originally posted by chinton
Im specifically answering your third question. The answer is there is no answer. Like previously mentioned there is no difference between the copy and real one so the answer both becomes moot and ethically challenging.

I completely understand that side of the point. However, you can still argue that there is a difference because if I start with 1, but make an identical copy of 1, I will have two 1's, but only the first was the original.

Anybody have any thoughts on my other two questions?

[Bourne101]

I had been anticipating this movie for months and then I started to forget about the hype. I wasn't excited going into this movie, and didn't have high expectations. I'm glad that was the mindset I had, or I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much as I did.

Don't leave your brains at the door for this one. Although it is not that confusing, you have to think about it to get it.

The acting is brilliant as well as the directing and script. Watching the magic unfold is great and exciting and my eyes were glued to the screen the whole time.

I still have a few questions I need answered, but nothing a few spoilers or explanations won't help. I recommend this to everyone who likes a serious movie, with great excitement and nice twists.

9/10

[JCPhoenix]

SPOILERS

I'm a little torn about this movie. On the one hand, I didn't come out of theatres as blown away as I was hoping to be but rather trying to puzzle out the entire film.

On the other hand, the more I think about the movie, the more I appreciate what it is doing. In this case, for me, the many little twists were underwhelming but still work because they lead to more intriguing morality questions regarding the characters (Jackman killing off himself over and over, Bale's double life).

I'm especially intrigued by the really strong motif of duality in the film and there's still a lot of things that I'm trying to figure out.

It was well-made and entertaining enough - I suspect though that I will like it more with repeat viewings, and it certainly seems like the kind of film that will reward multiple viewings.

Some people might compare it to Shyamalan (ugh) but I say that Nolan's using these twists to pose far more interesting questions with less self-pretentiousness.

And I gotta say, it's a much odder film than I expected. Someone else said something to the extent that this is an art film wrapped inside a mainstream film and I can see that to some extent. It also has a very pulpy sci-fi vibe to it with the machine and the clones.

One of the main questions for me is when did Caine's character find out about Bale's double-life? I think someone asked that question earlier but I don't think it's been answered yet...

For now, it's a tentative 8/10...

This is how Nolan's filmography ranks for me:

01. Memento (10/10)
02. Batman Begins (9/10)
03. Following (8/10)
04. The Prestige (8/10)
05. Insomnia (7/10)

Pretty impressive I gotta say. He's five for five in my books.

[chinton]

Spoilers!!!!!




As far as Cutter knwoing about Bale's double life I think he knew from the very beggining. That's why he kept insisting to Angier that it was a simple matter of an identical twin and nothing more. The only question is did Cutter realize Fallon was Bale #2. Obviously he figured out at the end, but there is a distinct difference between knowing one use's a double and knowing who Fallon really was.

[outsyder]

SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


Originally posted by chinton
And I completely disagree. He revealed his trick to Angier who would soon be dead. He performed The Transported Man one last time, the best version of it, and both kept and revealed his secret. It's really quite brilliant.


I'm not so sure. Angier was obsessed wth discovering the secret of the trick, and although he had it performed for him right at before he died, what is next for Alfred? Surely he can't live a normal life as if anyone were to discover who he was, he'd be arrested and possibly hanged like his brother, so in essence, he becomes the man in the box. He has no other choice now.

[chinton]

Spoilers!!!



whats next for Alfred even if he didn't reveal the trick. I think it's pretty fitting that Alfred would reveal the trick and Angier would only be able to take it to it's grave. Him having or not having alife afterwards has nothing to do with the trick. By both performing the best version of Transported Man (great visual touch of the red ball) and revealing it and then letting it die with Algier it's quite brilliant. Alfred got the last laugh and now he can continue on to be a father to his daughter or his twins daughter.

[outsyder]

SPOILERS*********************




I don't think either of them "won" per say. Sure Alfred killed Algier, but his brother and his wife are dead, he can't perform his famous trick anymore and he has to live in secrecy.

He may have his daughter, but nobody gained anything.

[Tyler_Durden_208]

10/10

Wow. I have to say, this movie's story is what I wanted from THE DEPARTED. Not being clever for clever's sake, but more the whole movie is like one big magic trick in the way it's set up. Amazing performances all around, Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale, the always reliable Michael Caine, (for me) a surprisingly good performance from Scarlett Johansson, David Bowie, and one of my favorite supporting actors, the great Andy Serkis. Also loved the look, the style by Nolan, and the cinematography.
I would love to see this again in theaters, but if not, it's a definite must own, and will fit well with Nolan's other films, of which I think the man cannot make a bad film

[chinton]

Originally posted by outsyder
SPOILERS*********************




I don't think either of them "won" per say. Sure Alfred killed Algier, but his brother and his wife are dead, he can't perform his famous trick anymore and he has to live in secrecy.

He may have his daughter, but nobody gained anything.




I'm not saying anyone won anything. All I'm saying is one of the many running themes was the continuing evolution of the Transported Man trick. In the end Borden does it one more time in front of Algier's dying eyes using the red ball as a visual clue. Great idea both narratively and visually.










Also to the issue of "cheating" something I jus t thought of the only way to me this movie really cheated was if Angier became a wizard halfway through. Think about one thing this film emphasized is that magicians, particuraly event or arena magicians rely on on machines, props, devices. In the end Algier simply had the best device that to continue the movie's theme required a sacrifice. Yes the machine did amazing things but its not like he willed himself over there but rather the machine did it. To me thats not cheating.

[DonSwoosh]

chinton,

After seeing the film again this afternoon, it is Fallon who slays Angier at the end, not Alfred. Fallon reclaims his daughter at the end.

As for Cutter, he had his suspicions that Alfred had a twin but I feel he didn't get confirmation until Angier claimed Fallon's daughter. This is when Cutter turned his back on Angier. As a matter of fact, I'm sure Fallon is the one who sought out Cutter after the daughter was claimed by Angier.

Still, the visual key to figure out which brother is which is the left eyebrow of Alfred. There's a line of missing hair on his left eyebrow. That's Alfred. Fallon has one that similar but the hair isn't as missing on the left eyebrow.

Plus, look at the two attitudes of the brothers. Alfred's the bastard brother who's really at war with Angier. Fallon plays along because he's also devoteed to the craft but he's not a hothead like Alfred is. Bale's performance is very nuance but I caught it this second time.

[chinton]

Originally posted by DonSwoosh
chinton,

After seeing the film again this afternoon, it is Fallon who slays Angier at the end, not Alfred. Fallon reclaims his daughter at the end.

As for Cutter, he had his suspicions that Alfred had a twin but I feel he didn't get confirmation until Angier claimed Fallon's daughter. This is when Cutter turned his back on Angier. As a matter of fact, I'm sure Fallon is the one who sought out Cutter after the daughter was claimed by Angier.

Still, the visual key to figure out which brother is which is the left eyebrow of Alfred. There's a line of missing hair on his left eyebrow. That's Alfred. Fallon has one that similar but the hair isn't as missing on the left eyebrow.

Plus, look at the two attitudes of the brothers. Alfred's the bastard brother who's really at war with Angier. Fallon plays along because he's also devoteed to the craft but he's not a hothead like Alfred is.
Bale's performance is very nuance but I caught it this second time.


Totally missed that stuff. I need to see this again. Oh and Bale rocks. I also got a lot mroe respect for Jakcman after this film although I always liked him.

[DonSwoosh]

Yeah. Jackman deserves alot of credit with this film. He's wonderful in it. Also, check this explaination I found online from chud's messageboard out about Tesla's machine and what it actually means to the film:

"Small clarification on the clones...they're not clones. They are the same. A clone is like a twin...completely seperate lives. At the moment of the teleportation, there is no original. Tesla's comment that sometimes science doesn't do what you except is because he designed a machine to teleport something...and the reason it worked (but not like he expected) is because of theory he was unaware of, harkening back (or forward) to Schroedinger's cat and Uncertainty Theory. An object can exist as a wave representation in two locations until observed, collapsing the wave into a set reality. But in Tesla's machine, the wave form doesn't collapse, and both versions are real, with the same history up until that point. Neither is a copy, neither is an original.
This concept bugs the shit out of alot of people.
Watch Angier's reaction just before he's shot the first time...he claims he's the original (which is why some people think the original teleports, leaving a copy). Other people wonder why the machine "clones" people for a teleport...again, it doesn't. It collapses the the translocation wave in a solid form, something that was outside of Tesla's field, that he would have stumbled across if he had built this machine. I have a sneaking suspicion Priest dreamed up this gizmo simply by crossing Telsa's experiments with quantum theory.
The reason this minor distinction is important is because Angier never understood that he's not murdering his "clone," he's not risking being the man in the box...he's always the man in the box, and the Prestige. He's stuck with a different hell, a different take on the duality Borden deals with, and both men did it to themselves."

That explains a whole hell of alot.

The most amazing thing about seeing it twice was how the story changed. It's not about figuring out the twists and turns now (although to get a full understanding of the plot, it's much easier to detect on second viewing). It's about this game these two men play and how it ruins both of their lives. It becomes a great two-headed character piece on second viewing and it made the film even more special, in my eyes.

[chinton]

whoever wrote that great great job. Effectively the enigma of the machine. Personally I always thought the word clone was totally the wrong word to be using. That effectively exaplins why.

[jolanar]

SPOILERS:


Ok can someone confirm something for me, because it coming clear to me that I missed it in the theatre.

Are Alfred and Fallon identical twin brothers, or are they 'clones' like Angier's? I probably missed this due to the aforementioned trouble of understanding their English accents. Also when did they say this in the film?

I really do need to see this in the theatre again. Like others, the more I think back on the film the more and more I loved it. I'm almost positive after a second veiwing I'll be raising my score from a 7 to 8, possibly a 9.

[DonSwoosh]

They are identical twin brothers. The final scene of the film (and other visual and dialogue cues throughout the film) between Angier and Fallon shows this. Tesla's machine for the Borden brothers was all an illusion to make their trick seem even more magical. It never worked, whereas Angier's machine is pure science. It actually worked and even Tesla couldn't really explain how...

[Double-Oh-Zero]

*SPOILERS*

The Prestige

Never before have I seen a movie and thought about it so intensely afterward, even 24 hours later.

Which is what makes this flick so fantastic.

The acting is spectacular, the cinematography is great, the atmosphere is top-notch, and the plot is...buggered if I know how to describe it, but that's why I loved this flick and everything about it. I'll admit that I'm dumbass and immediately dismissed Fallon as being Bale (or anyone else, for that matter) in disguise, and started to sink into my chair when all was revealed at the end (and began psycholigically kicking myself when I realized that I never saw the Borden-twin angle coming). I thought I had worked it out as to how it was going to end: I figured Bale would use a trick knot and escape the hanging (which is why I chuckled when he said "Are you watching closely?" to the guard; Elder thought I had gone fuckin' bonkers). Actually, when I first saw Bale in the trial at the beginning, the notion of him being electrocuted popped into my mind for some reason, and then it came back again at the end after the Tesla machine's capabilities had been revealed. Well, that was shot to hell when I remembered that elecricity was just being introduced. Yeah, I'm a moron, I know.

And while I understand the film as a whole, there are still little details nagging at the back of my brain (the journals of Borden and Angier, Cutter's loyalties throughout the film, who knew what and for how long, etc.). This is one of the rare times when I would love to see the flick again as soon as possible to try and work everything out. Currently tied with The Departed as my favourite film of the year.

9/10

P.S. Thanks for clearing up the issue about Bale's twin, Don Swoosh. I was a bit confused about that, myself.

[DarkKnight81]

SPOILER


I'm very embarressed but still man enough to say the thought that Fallon was the other twin never crossed my mind and I had no clue until was revealed at the very end. Shame on me.

[ElderPredator]

Originally posted by Double-Oh-Zero

I figured Bale would use a trick knot and escape the hanging (which is why I chuckled when he said "Are you watching closely?" to the guard; Elder thought I had gone fuckin' bonkers).

:D :p That was very funny cause I just figured that you knew what was going to happen. Both of us were just in aww watching the movie and trying to piece the puzzle together. By the end, both of us are trying to re-think all the details and figure out the whole thing. Awesome review Double-Oh and I agree entirely! I just can't wait to see it again now. :D

Also, I admit complete stupidity for myself as well cause I never thought about Fallon's character that much throughout the film but once you think about all the conversation scenes between Bale and his brother, it all makes so much sense. I'm such a dumbass! :D

[tlc3377]

I figured out on of the twists, about 3 seconds before it was revealed. LOL. The one about the Lord who was looking after the daughter.
I thought that once they revealed everything I would get it all. Not a chance. 2 days later and I'm still scratching my head.
Fallon never crossed my mind either as having any significant role in the whole thing.
I've got to see this again, and try to piece it all together knowing what's coming.
Definately on the top 5 for the year as far as I am concerned!

[jaw2929]

Originally posted by Ender

I think the significance of Jackman's body in the tank at the end was this: That body was recent, it hadn't bloated or decomposed in any way. And yet Jackman had not performed the trick in weeks, if not months! That means that it was a recently created duplicate, meaning that Jackman had indeed been using the machine again, even after swearing he would not. This means that Algier, in some form or another, may still exist somewhere. Was it a duplicate that Bale shot? If so, was the "original" Algier in that tank, or was there yet another version of him still out there? Is this really the end of the story?



*SPOILERS*

Yes, unlike everyone else I DO believe the REAL (original) Algier was alive throughout each trick, HE was the man appearing on the balcony everytime, seeing the peoples faces and delivering said dialogue at the end, after Bales character shoots him.... I don't believe the REAL Algier ever died, and that he was "getting his hands dirty" by killing off a clone, each time he did the trick.... So he was around until the very end, where he finally got shot by Bale...

I didn't see Bale having a real twin brother either... Didn't see that one at all... And of course it was NOT made by Tesla's machine, as he would've already figured out Algier's secret/trick....

Also, do ya'll think that the double of Algier found by Johansson's character at the beginnign (the drunk former actor) was exactly that, and NOT an actual clone made by Tesla's machine? I believe he was introduced into the movie, long before we find out that Tesla's machine actually works.... Not only that, but I believe he was the first "Algier" to be killed, as HE was the one who ended up on the slab that Caine's character saw... The one in the tank was obviously a recent clone, and then of course the REAL Algier was the one who was shot at the end, and delivered the good dialogue, etc.

Anyhow, I really quite liked this movie... It seemed to drag at parts, and of course Johansson's character was just really thrown in for T & A.... (Plus, her accent sucked ass).... Everyone was on top of their game, as far as the acting went... So many different things happening at once, definately a movie to watch a 2nd and even 3rd time, to connect things as they come, and for it to make COMPLETE sense, I'm sure.... Great cinematography and direction as welll...

While similar, I DO believe this movie was NOT quite as good as "The Illusionist" only because I felt that this movie was trying a bit too hard to continually throw people off on it's twists, only to fail in wrapping things up as coherently/nicely as The Illusionist had done in it's conclusion....

That's not to say I didn't understand The Prestige at all... I absolutely did, and if you can suspend your disbelief on one major plot point in this, and consider the idea that Science is also working in conjunction with magic, then you'll definately be able to appreciate just how good this movie is! :)



EDIT: I just read the explanation that it wasn't in fact "clones" that Algier was doing, but basically himself in two different places at once (one in the tank, one laying on the floor from being shots, and then of course the 3rd being the original double that was the drunk former actor killed and put on the slab).... So essentially it's Algier being stuck in two places at one time, everytime the trick is done... And perhaps the water tanks are emptied of the "other" him each night, (or the wave collapses) etc. It's a bit of a mind fuck, but it's quite interesting notheless! :p

[anakinsrise]

My Opinion:
We already know the secret and details of Angier's trick so i think
the final shot of Angier's "clone" is telling us Angier is possibly still
alive and Borden has just killed another clone.Borden himself turns
back with a look on his face looking upon the numerous water tanks,
as if he's saying have i been had or upstaged again?


This is why The Prestige has its flaws, but its still a very good film,im
still thinking about and talking about it 3 days later.Hand in hand with all the effects,and
acting is a great story of obssession and where it leads you if we let it consume us.Which in this film are hate.murder and death.
In fact Rupert Angier ( Hugh Jackman very good as the obsessed Angier) has become so consumed with outdoing Borden,that he sadly no longer cares what started his obssesive quest in the first place.
Christian Bale's(sharp and controlled)Alfred Borden obsessed with giving the world something they have never seen,makes sacrifices to insure this, that are literally painful to himself and his family
Michael Caine as Cutter was brillaint the guy just brigs class to every role.

I felt the women in the film were underused,even though Rebecca Hall stands out as Borden's long suffering wife.
Scarlett Johansson(yes i did droll a bit watching her walk around in her sexy corsets) as Olivia ,and Piper Perabo(still love those bee stung lips)Julia do the best they can with the time they're given

As soon as Bordens assistant arrives on the scene i saw the plot twist concerning him from a million miles away.The film starts to feel a bit drawn out towards the end.

In the end scale of 1-10 an 8 1/2
Im in high anticipation for the DVD
ABRACADABRA

[Celluloid Love]

Yes, unlike everyone else I DO believe the REAL (original) Algier was alive throughout each trick, HE was the man appearing on the balcony everytime, seeing the peoples faces and delivering said dialogue at the end, after Bales character shoots him.... I don't believe the REAL Algier ever died, and that he was "getting his hands dirty" by killing off a clone, each time he did the trick.... So he was around until the very end, where he finally got shot by Bale...

You do see the problem with this don't you? If the original Angier was the one on the balcony, then it stands to reason that during the first test run of the machine, he was the one that appeared outside of the machine and was, in fact, shot by his duplicate. The only reason I even question that a little bit is that Angier said he never knows whether he's going to die each time or not. Now, this could be because of either of the following reasons:

1. The machine doesn't work the same each time. One time it leaves the original Angier in the machine and produces a copy elsewhere. The other times it transports the original and produces a copy in the machine.

2. Because these are exact copies, with the same memories, and same everything, he can't tell the difference between being an original and a duplicate and thus doesn't know whether he's going to die each time. This is a bit convoluted, but I think you see where I'm going with it.

Also, do ya'll think that the double of Algier found by Johansson's character at the beginnign (the drunk former actor) was exactly that, and NOT an actual clone made by Tesla's machine? I believe he was introduced into the movie, long before we find out that Tesla's machine actually works.... Not only that, but I believe he was the first "Algier" to be killed, as HE was the one who ended up on the slab that Caine's character saw...

I was never under the impression that the double Cutter/Olivia found was created by Tesla's machine. In fact, if I understand everything correctly, the timeline of the movie disproves that entirely. Also, the Angier that was on the slab wasn't the look-a-like, it was one of the many doubles created by Tesla's machine.

[ilovemovies]

SPOILERS!





I love Scarlette Johansson but I felt she was really wasted here. Piper Perabo has even less screen time yet I still think she makes a stronger impression than Johansson and the actress who plays Bale's wife gives a REALLY strong performance. Probably the best after Jackman and Bale infact. I really felt for her and it was really sad when she hung herself.


Man, it was really compelling watching the Jackman character really become a monster in this movie. I really liked his character in the begining of the movie but by the end his obsession so totally consumed him that he became evil. He got what he deserved at the end. It's a really great performance from Jackman. The best he's ever given. Bale is also great but I think Jackman actually kind of stole the show.

To me this was the weakest movie from Nolan. Memento, Insomnia and Batman Begins were all better. But it's a solid effort nonetheless. A neat and intriguing and totally gripping movie. Nolan remains one of my favorite filmmakers. He's just great. A true original. And I can't wait for his next movie (especially since it's The Dark Knight)! :cool:

[thedamnwolfman]

Originally posted by ilovemovies

I love Scarlette Johansson but I felt she was really wasted here.

I used to love Scarlette Johansson, but now for some reason she just yanks me right out of a movie. I would be going along suspending my disbelief, loving the movie. Then she would come in and ruin it. Nolan seems to like to stick actresses in movies that kinda pull me out of it. Like that jack ass Katie Holmes in Batman. She was the only rough spot in that movie. Scarlette is the same thing in this movie. She is a name, not a fit. Scarlette you totally “Katie Holmesed” the Prestige, shame on you. Huge, Christian you boys do an awesome job in making me forget that you were Batman and Wolverine. Scarlette dye your hair back to red and I will try to resist the urge to throw boiled clams at you.



Oh, the movie is still worth your money. For reals and no foolin’, honest.

[jaw2929]

Originally posted by Celluloid Love
You do see the problem with this don't you? If the original Angier was the one on the balcony, then it stands to reason that during the first test run of the machine, he was the one that appeared outside of the machine and was, in fact, shot by his duplicate. The only reason I even question that a little bit is that Angier said he never knows whether he's going to die each time or not. Now, this could be because of either of the following reasons:

1. The machine doesn't work the same each time. One time it leaves the original Angier in the machine and produces a copy elsewhere. The other times it transports the original and produces a copy in the machine.

2. Because these are exact copies, with the same memories, and same everything, he can't tell the difference between being an original and a duplicate and thus doesn't know whether he's going to die each time. This is a bit convoluted, but I think you see where I'm going with it.

Aye, you're right... Now that I know they're not "clones" as such... It's just multiple hims, with his same thoughts/personality/memories, etc. (or him in two places at once, esentially)....


I was never under the impression that the double Cutter/Olivia found was created by Tesla's machine. In fact, if I understand everything correctly, the timeline of the movie disproves that entirely. Also, the Angier that was on the slab wasn't the look-a-like, it was one of the many doubles created by Tesla's machine.

So what do you suppose happened to the drunk/actor look-a-like?

[Tyler_Durden_208]

I never really saw the problem with Scarlett. I usually can't stand her. I thought she gave a good performance for once, and her accent a lot better than Kiera Knightley in Pirates of the Carribean.
That and she didn't have any of that cringe-worthy dialogue to deliver like Kiera did in Pirates.

And I'm definately gonna see this again (might drag my mum along next time) and it's given me reason to look back at all of Nolan's films again.

[Celluloid Love]

So what do you suppose happened to the drunk/actor look-a-like?

Honestly, I just assumed he went away once Borden sabotaged Angier's performance. Obviously he wasn't around when Angier went to Colorado to visit Tesla.

[Tyler_Durden_208]

Originally posted by Celluloid Love
Honestly, I just assumed he went away once Borden sabotaged Angier's performance. Obviously he wasn't around when Angier went to Colorado to visit Tesla.
I like to pretend he came back and saw Angier's final show run with a "what the?" look on his face, because he thought Angier needed him so much.

[ilovemovies]

Originally posted by thedamnwolfman
I used to love Scarlette Johansson, but now for some reason she just yanks me right out of a movie. I would be going along suspending my disbelief, loving the movie. Then she would come in and ruin it. Nolan seems to like to stick actresses in movies that kinda pull me out of it. Like that jack ass Katie Holmes in Batman. She was the only rough spot in that movie. Scarlette is the same thing in this movie. She is a name, not a fit. Scarlette you totally “Katie Holmesed” the Prestige, shame on you. Huge, Christian you boys do an awesome job in making me forget that you were Batman and Wolverine. Scarlette dye your hair back to red and I will try to resist the urge to throw boiled clams at you.



Oh, the movie is still worth your money. For reals and no foolin’, honest.


I disagree. I never had a problem with Katie Holmes in Batman Begins. I thought she was really good.

I think Scarlette is good here too, just extremely underused. As I said, Piper Perabo and Bale's wife left more of an impression. They were also underused but managed to bring more to their parts than Scarlette does.

[thedamnwolfman]

Originally posted by ilovemovies
[B]I disagree. I never had a problem with Katie Holmes in Batman Begins. I thought she was really good.

[B]

I counter disagree!

Yeah, yeah no body ever has problems with the pretty girl because she shakes her ass, jiggles her tits, and never farts on screen. Two major things wrong with Katie Holmes in Begins. One Ummmm, she just plain doesn’t belong in an action movie because she looks like a little girl and I am hardly believing that she is old enough to buy cigarettes much less steal Bruce Wayne’s heart with out making him feel like a dirty lecher. Two, her car in Begins is way too believable. What was it? A 98’ Taurus. Real people drive those cars, not movie people.

As for Scarlette, having her in this movie is like feeling like you have to pee, but not actually being able to pee. Like you spent the whole day drinking caffeine and your body doesn’t know how to process “that much caffeine” so it punishes you by making you feel like you have to go but when you get to the john your lucky if you get a tiny little puff of dust to come out. Disappointing and unnecessary. I would have preferred a lesser known actress. Every time she popped on screen I though, “I wonder what kind of magical jiggling time machine did she use to go back in time and stick out like a soar thumb in this movie, oh crap I just remembered I am watching a movie. Oh crap this is slowly becoming less and less worth the 9 some odd dollars I paid to see this. Oh? She’s gone. I wonder if they well ever get that darned hat to disappear. GO BOWIE, GO!

[outsyder]

He may only have 6 posts, but thedamnwolfman is now one of my favorite posters.


Thank you good sir.:D

[MadsenOMC]

I think Scarlett is a good young actress, but I don't think she is good in period pieces, Girl With a Pearl Earring being the exception. In this and The Black Dahlia she looks extremely out of place to me, like a girl playing dress up. I didn't find her convincing in either one. She looks too contemporary.

[CKExpress]

"The Prestige" was disappointing in that it relied too much on the twists and turns. So it failed since the ending and twists were way too obvious. The film is a decent one that will probably be enjoyed by many, but only if Nolan had concentrated more on the theme of obsession rather than letting the story be dictated by the cheap gags of the storyline, maybe he would have ended up with a great film.

SPOILER WARNING
It just surprises me that so many people think this is a great story when it relies on a CLONING MACHINE to fill in the holes. I mean think about it, it's a damn cloning machine, it's absolutely ridiculous. The writer sat there and actually thought of using a cloning machine and thought "OH, I can attribute it to a mysterious scientific figure of the time, and maybe people won't notice the absolute stupidity of it." All in all, the execution was done well by Nolan, and it is a average movie.

[Vong]

Originally posted by CKExpress
SPOILER WARNING
It just surprises me that so many people think this is a great story when it relies on a CLONING MACHINE to fill in the holes. I mean think about it, it's a damn cloning machine, it's absolutely ridiculous.

It's a science fiction film dude.
You might as well argue that Star Wars is shit for having laser guns, lightsabers and hyperdrives.

[CKExpress]

"It's a science fiction film dude."

Are you really trying to compare Star Wars to this movie? Tell me how a film about magicians in the 19th century is science fiction movie. My point is that a ridiculous idea is thrown out here out of the blue just to tie up the knots.

[thedamnwolfman]

Originally posted by CKExpress

It just surprises me that so many people think this is a great story when it relies on a CLONING MACHINE to fill in the holes. I mean think about it, it's a damn cloning machine, it's absolutely ridiculous. The writer sat there and actually thought of using a cloning machine and thought "OH, I can attribute it to a mysterious scientific figure of the time, and maybe people won't notice the absolute stupidity of it." All in all, the execution was done well by Nolan, and it is a average movie.

CKEpress, I feel like you are missing the point. It’s not that it’s a cloning machine; It’s a cloning machine built by David Bowie. A man who was once Ziggystardust. I think it’s completely plausible that David Bowie learned the science of cloning in the late 60’s, then went back in time and sold both his technology and likeness to Tesla. Who as we all know eventually started a pretty kick ass metal band. I would urge you to think outside of what could and could not happen and embrace what did happen. That being, David Tesla Bowie literally built a cloning/ teleporter for Huge Jackman, proving Christian Bale to be the superior Magician. Damn It am I the only one who can see this?

[CKExpress]

Very true, I apologize for my lack of imagination. David Bowie could surely have traveled back in time to give Tesla a cloning device, but I have a better idea, I think Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale are in the Matrix and they are experiencing Dejavu, so it's not a cloning device at all. They must get rid of Agent Smith.

[jolanar]

Originally posted by CKExpress
"It's a science fiction film dude."

Are you really trying to compare Star Wars to this movie? Tell me how a film about magicians in the 19th century is science fiction movie. My point is that a ridiculous idea is thrown out here out of the blue just to tie up the knots.

Science fiction has nothing to do with the time it is set in. After all... Star Wars happened a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

[jolanar]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
I think Scarlett is a good young actress, but I don't think she is good in period pieces, Girl With a Pearl Earring being the exception. In this and The Black Dahlia she looks extremely out of place to me, like a girl playing dress up. I didn't find her convincing in either one. She looks too contemporary.

I agree. She looked like a 21st century women in a 19th century costume. I think it has something to do with the massive amount of make up she is wearing.

[Vong]

Originally posted by CKExpress
Are you really trying to compare Star Wars to this movie? Tell me how a film about magicians in the 19th century is science fiction movie. My point is that a ridiculous idea is thrown out here out of the blue just to tie up the knots.

No, I'm merely pointing out the absurdity of your statement about the cloning machine when the movie is a science fiction film based on a science fiction novel. And as jolanar pointed out, time is irrelevant to science fiction films/novels.

[CKExpress]

I know what science fiction is. You guys really don't understand what I'm saying? The point is the entire movie is set in a realistic setting. There are just some things that can't be crossed. If you guys are gonna be ridiculous, I'll match it with a more ridiculous comparison. The Cloning device is as ridiculous as if Christian Bale shooting lasers out of his gun. Would I buy into a cloning machine in Star Wars or X-Men, sure. Would I buy into a Cloning Machine in Bicycle Thief, no.

[thedamnwolfman]

Originally posted by CKExpress
Very true, I apologize for my lack of imagination. David Bowie could surely have traveled back in time to give Tesla a cloning device, but I have a better idea, I think Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale are in the Matrix and they are experiencing Dejavu, so it's not a cloning device at all. They must get rid of Agent Smith.

We all know the Matrix doesn't exist, because black trenchcoats are lame. But i do appreciate the irony in your lack of imagination/ Matrix explination. Good on you for that one.

[jaw2929]

Originally posted by CKExpress
I know what science fiction is. You guys really don't understand what I'm saying? The point is the entire movie is set in a realistic setting. There are just some things that can't be crossed. If you guys are gonna be ridiculous, I'll match it with a more ridiculous comparison. The Cloning device is as ridiculous as if Christian Bale shooting lasers out of his gun. Would I buy into a cloning machine in Star Wars or X-Men, sure. Would I buy into a Cloning Machine in Bicycle Thief, no.

What the hell? Back to the Future (one of the best/most beloved Sci-Fi flicks) was set in a modern/realistic setting... So you going to shit on that one too, for the same argument? It's a fuckin' CAR that can move through TIME...

Yes, we CAN see what you're saying... But you're discrediting a movie, just because you're refusing to suspend your disbelief that such a thing could happen... Hell, I believe that movie "The Time Machine" was set in a realistic setting as well, did you shit on that too? Or how about Donnie Darko, yep I believe that was set in a realistic setting... We understand your point, we just don't agree with ya! ;)

[chinton]

Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!



It is not a cloning machine. They are the same person with the same memories and personality. One dies while the other lives. I know this is nit-picky but I think it's important.




Also whatever the machine is the movie does not rely on it. The power of the film has nothing to do with what kind of cool gizmo it is it has to do with the issue that the machine brings up and how it affects the person in it.

[chinton]

Originally posted by CKExpress
"The Prestige" was disappointing in that it relied too much on the twists and turns. So it failed since the ending and twists were way too obvious. The film is a decent one that will probably be enjoyed by many, but only if Nolan had concentrated more on the theme of obsession rather than letting the story be dictated by the cheap gags of the storyline, maybe he would have ended up with a great film.

SPOILER WARNING
It just surprises me that so many people think this is a great story when it relies on a CLONING MACHINE to fill in the holes. I mean think about it, it's a damn cloning machine, it's absolutely ridiculous. The writer sat there and actually thought of using a cloning machine and thought "OH, I can attribute it to a mysterious scientific figure of the time, and maybe people won't notice the absolute stupidity of it." All in all, the execution was done well by Nolan, and it is a average movie.


The movie was all about the t heme of obsession. The twists were not cheap gags but rather explored the mindset of the two main characters and how they eventually deteriorated throughout the film due to the obsession.




I'm curious what Madsen OMC thinks of these interpretations. I haven't heard a peep from him.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by chinton
I'm curious what Madsen OMC thinks of these interpretations. I haven't heard a peep from him.

I've been following along. It's been an interesting discussion. I just don't really passionately agree or disagree with any of it. I liked the movie, but I didn't love it, and nothing said here has changed my opinion of it one way or the other.

[CKExpress]

Look guys, Back to the Future had the time machine car as the basis for the entire movie. From the very beginning, it forces you to buy into it, or else why watch it? In the Prestige on the other hand, the cloning device is introduced to conveniently set up the ending, while I also admit there is an extra layer of the question of killing yourself multiple times through the device. Main point guys, I really did not want my post to start an argument about realism in film, I personally think the cloning device was a cop out. There are set limits to something which you can believe, but after an hour of reality, I don't appreciate some fantastic machine to magically progress the story along. As I said in my original post, my main point is that The Prestige is too driven by the gimmicks, and I was left unsatisfied since I wanted Nolan to explore the themes of obsession in a more honest manner.

[The Heart Collector]

How is science-fiction a dishonest manner?!?

Originally posted by CKExpress
Tell me how a film about magicians in the 19th century is science fiction movie.

It uses ficticious science. Which is the definition of science fiction. Jesus christ.

[ilovemovies]

I can understand how someone would feel cheated by the science fiction elements of the movie. It kind of comes out of nowhere since most of the movie plays somewhat realistically.

But it didn't bother me. I liked it. It was neat.

[chinton]

Also this may be stretching but keep in mind this is a story about illusions. Therefore it's not like the movie was about some brother dying of cancer and then he starts shooting lasers out of his eyes. It's not that big a leap.

[Celluloid Love]

I guess I don't see why this caught some of you so off guard. You knew about halfway through the movie that Angier was going to Colorado to try and have a transporting machine built. The movie even made it seem as though there was an existing/working machine that was actually teleporting Borden. Whether you chose to believe that or not, is up to you, but the seeds were planted for that machine to exist.

While this transport machine did NOT exist, Angier was able to get his hands on a cloning machine. I understand there is a difference between the two but do you really have to suspend that much more belief in order to make the jump from teleport machine to cloning machine?

What I'm getting at here is... would you have been this bothered had it ended up being a transporting machine and not a cloning machine? If so, then you're at list consistent in your point. If not, you're contradicting yourself.

[austingirl]

Interesting to note what you all are talking about. I thought that I was going to walk into the thread and actually see reviews of the movie and thoughts regarding what people though, not arguments over what the movie is about or if it is a science fiction film or not.

I haven't seen it yet. So I can't really say what I think about it in that vein, but from what you all are arguing about I can say that I am more intrigued to see how the movie is developed and where all these elements are incorporated into the film! Once I do see it, I will jump right in with my opinion, but I just thought that I would chime in with that thought.

[Seph]

Loved the flick. Didn't mind the sci-fi (or, as is the vogue phrase among writers, "speculative fiction") elements. Hell, the sci-fi elements of the movie, in regard to the machine, actually pale somewhat in comparison to those of the novel. And based on the previews, as presented, I actually thought Nolan would go with more of a supernatural bend, instead of sticking with the novel's original steampunk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk). Acting's great. Story's great. Directing's great. Excellent film.

[TornDaredevil]

Wow... some of you guys are amazingly thick-headed, calling one Borden Alfred and the other Fallon... Saying that Fallon died and Alfred lived. They were both Alfred and they were both Fallon. One was a generally good guy with a wife and a daughter, and ther other was sort of a punk who loved the assistant and whose curiosity got the best of him. He was the one who was executed. The "good" one was shown saying "we're done, he can have his trick, we're done," and the other just couldn't stay away, and played into Angier's setup, and was eventually executed.

[daddiefatsacks]

what a disappointment

i mean, i just never really got into it, i was never surprised or shocked at ANY of the twists - YOU KNEW Fallon was not who they were from the first moment you laid eyes on the fake get up. Scarlett Johansson does what im sure she was supposed to do, and that was look good, but she kind of just wastes away in this movie. I just felt so disappointed and unsatisfied coming out of the theater, maybe i was expecting too much? maybe a handjob during the movie?

5/10

Bowie rocks

[Tyler_Durden_208]

Originally posted by TornDaredevil
Wow... some of you guys are amazingly thick-headed, calling one Borden Alfred and the other Fallon... Saying that Fallon died and Alfred lived. They were both Alfred and they were both Fallon. One was a generally good guy with a wife and a daughter, and ther other was sort of a punk who loved the assistant and whose curiosity got the best of him. He was the one who was executed. The "good" one was shown saying "we're done, he can have his trick, we're done," and the other just couldn't stay away, and played into Angier's setup, and was eventually executed.
...
Well instead of typing "the good one" or "the bad one" each time, it seems to fit that the good one could be called Fallon since he ended up being the caring one (taking care of his daughter and visiting, and evidenced that he cared about his wife by the "Sorry about your wife" line) and the bad one could be Alfred, since he's the one that ended up seemingly doing the most reprehensible things.

[thedamnwolfman]

the good one could be called Alfred, because thats what his wife called him and the bad one could be called Freddy because that what stupid head Scarlette called him.

but good and bad work too. or maybe red fish, blue fish.

[dreamcurls]

the buzz around this movie has officially become too good for me to resist!
I'm going to see it tonight! I can't wait!

[Tyler_Durden_208]

Originally posted by thedamnwolfman
the good one could be called Alfred, because thats what his wife called him and the bad one could be called Freddy because that what stupid head Scarlette called him.

but good and bad work too. or maybe red fish, blue fish.
Yeah, I mean, it's just a way of us trying to be less confused when we're talking about it. Rather than me saying "the one that wanted to leave Angier alone and loved his wife and child" and "the adulterous one" :p

[Commodore]

Having an entire film that is physically real and throwing in one element of fake science does not make this a science fiction film, but rather a great film that unfortunately relied on a crappy made up piece of science as a plot vehicle.

The whole premise of the film and magic in general is that if it seems too good to be true, it is, there is always some physical explanation. The fact that Tesla's machine, which appeared to good to be true but actually did work, was annoying and contradictory to the spirit of the rest of the film.

Other than that one aspect and the overrated Scarlett Johannsen giving another mediocre performance (why is it if you just look somber in films people think you are a great actor), I loved this film.

8/10

[bigred760]

This is a very good thriller that examines the rivalry between two magicians. Once friends, the death of one's wife, possibly at the hands of the other, leads to a personal and bitter rivalry that works its way into their fields. The reason that its such a good thriller that you buy into each's obsession with discovering the other's secrets. Hugh Jackman's and Christian Bale's performances are very convincing and addictive. Jackman's obsession with his rival is intriguing, and Bale's secretiveness just makes you want to know more and more how he's doing it. Eventually, the dynamics are reversed, but just for a short time.

Another thing that helps drive the movie is the way the movie presents itself. As it's become a habit for director Chris Nolan, the movie is presented through flashbacks, some flashbacks are in flashbacks themselves. While it's a bit confusing at first, you get the hang of it the movie's timeline.

And while the performances and directing are excellent, another element that makes the movie good is that it stays with you once the credits start rolling. You're thinking about all the events in the movie that start making sense once you've witnessed the ending and its revelations. While its no Memento, the movie does make you want to go back and see it again to make sure you've got all the the little things down.

It's a good thriller with two great lead actors, a great supporting cast with Michael Caine, Scarlett Johansson (and her "assets"), David Bowie, and and Andy Serkis. Nolan's direction gives it an air of mystery - which can't hurt a movie about magicians and their secrets. A never-boring thriller that adds to Nolan's great directing resume.

8/10

[Strider]

The Prestige - 9/10 or ****1/2/***** stars

"Are You Watching Closely?"

A truly great magic trick leaves the audience watching it unfold bewildered, and simultaneously, wondering how exactly the magician accomplished such a trick. The Prestige is very much like a magic trick, and director Christopher Nolan is the magician. A constantly involving, incredibly entertaining, and brilliant film this is, and like Nolan's breakthrough feature Memento, its twists and turns are amazing and puzzling, yet not impossible to figure out (unquestionably, a film such as this one requires repeat viewings in order to fully understand it). Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale deliver exceptional performances as Rupert "The Great Danton" Angier and Alfred "The Professor" Borden respectively. Although both actors have played famous, beloved comic book superheroes (the former as Wolverine, and the latter as Batman), their individual performances in The Prestige prove how talented and versatile they are, and display their refusal to be typecast. On the surface, The Prestige may revolve around dueling magicians, as well as magic tricks galore, but underneath, it examines a theme of obsession, and the dark, self-destructive path it can lead to. Nolan is arguably one of the best, most talented filmmakers working today, and he has produced another winner and, thus far, the year's finest cinematic achievement.

Strider

[Mentiroso]

6/10

I was not happy with this one. It was good but I expected much more. :mad:

[RandalGraves]

I never got around to seeing this in theaters and prolly won't...but I'm thinking im gonna blind buy this one when it comes out on dvd.

[Lost in Space]

its worth it graves

[Bourne101]

It's only been out for a week Graves! There's still tons of time to see it. But if you don't get around to it. Definitly blind buy it. It is a great movie.

[thedudeman69]

Fantastic flick. It made me think about what was going on. Nolan is a great story teller and a great director. One of my best of the year!

[Suziecue]

Nolan is a notch director. If he directs it, I feel pretty confident going to see it. I know that I am going to be pretty engaged.

When I saw this film, it didn't turn out the way I expected it to...it was actually better. I will see it again because the first time I saw it, I was so caught up in the magic that I want to make sure I didn't miss anything more significant.

Very clever story and to top it off, Caine, Jackman and Bale brought out the best in each other.

9/10

[Strider]

I watched The Prestige for the second time last night, and it really cleared up a lot of things, especially the twisty ending. I have everything all worked out in my head. For those who walked out of the film lost and confused, watch it a second time, pay strict attention, and you should definitely figure it out. Upon my second viewing, I noticed a couple of things: (1) Nolan throws so many clues about the first of three twists. He wants the viewer to figure it out before it's revealed. (2) This is not only a dark film, but it's pretty depressing as well. Nobody wins here.

I do have one question regarding the final shots of the film, which I'm hoping someone can answer for me:

***SPOILERS***












-- What exactly is going through the mind of Borden as he is walking out of the theater, looking at a dead Angier (who happens to be a duplicate) and all the water tanks containing his many other deceased duplicates? Is he perplexed, astonished, disturbed, or something else? I don't believe either Borden or Angier won anything. They lost more than they gained. However, Borden clearly was the superior magician, outsmarted Angier, and kept his secret about his twin brother and his version of the Transported Man trick.

Any ideas?












***END SPOILERS***





Strider

[CreeperBEATNGU]

I was underwhelmed by it. I think it would've served the point of the movie much better if Bale and Jackman started off as friends that really got along instead of just co-workers that were never very close to begin with.

SPOILERS


I also thought that letting Bale win defeated the films attemped message. The point was to show that nobody wins when you let obsession and personal rivalry control your life, they defeated their message by having the biggest jerk in the movie win.

[Tyler_Durden_208]

*SPOILERS*
If you think about it, the biggest jerk in the movie died. The caring Borden brother who loved the wife and daughter and wanted to leave Angier to his tricks survives the ordeal, and nobody really "wins".
*END SPOILERS*

[TylerDurden182]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly.

[Tyler_Durden_208]

On another note, I'm currently reading the book, and am really enjoying it, but it's going to be one of those that's hard to compare the book and film, but the changes for the film (so far) were for the movie's benefit.

[chinton]

Originally posted by CreeperBEATNGU
I was underwhelmed by it. I think it would've served the point of the movie much better if Bale and Jackman started off as friends that really got along instead of just co-workers that were never very close to begin with.

SPOILERS


I also thought that letting Bale win defeated the films attemped message. The point was to show that nobody wins when you let obsession and personal rivalry control your life, they defeated their message by having the biggest jerk in the movie win.


Nobody actually won if were talking on a more emotional sense. Yes Borden get the last laugh and got his daughter back but really nobody walked off the movie with a clean concience. The point of the film was to show where obsession can bring someone down and it did show that in a sprirtual sense. Borden lost his brother and wife and Angier lost his life.

[Typezer0]

Really liked the film. Really appreciate the story and the effort in the film. I just felt like the ending had the same tone and pace as the last 1/3 of the movie. Meaning no major climax. Just some twists.

I want and need to see it again. I knew something was up with the guy with the glasses (Borden's twin brother).

The story is made complicated by insane circumstances and coincidences. Twin brothers, rival magicians, Tesla making a machine that does create duplicates (right?) all in the same time frame.

Why would Borden's wife kill herself when she had a child. That's stupid. Just leave him. Or am I not getting something?

[Agent007]

Hugh Jackman + Christian Bale = I am going to see this movie.

[CreeperBEATNGU]

SPOILERS

Originally posted by chinton
Nobody actually won if were talking on a more emotional sense. Yes Borden get the last laugh and got his daughter back but really nobody walked off the movie with a clean concience. The point of the film was to show where obsession can bring someone down and it did show that in a sprirtual sense. Borden lost his brother and wife and Angier lost his life.

They both suffered losses, but one more so than the other. There really should've been no winner in any way, that last laugh ending didn't work for me at all.
I know they wanted to show what obsession can to do someone, but to show exactly how destructive it is, both men's losses should've been equal, I don't feel that they were (and I believe it was Borden's twin that lost his wife, and it appeared that it was the more caring twin that died).

[bigred760]

MAJOR SPOILERS!!!

Originally posted by CreeperBEATNGU
SPOILERS



They both suffered losses, but one more so than the other. There really should've been no winner in any way, that last laugh ending didn't work for me at all.
I know they wanted to show what obsession can to do someone, but to show exactly how destructive it is, both men's losses should've been equal, I don't feel that they were (and I believe it was Borden's twin that lost his wife, and it appeared that it was the more caring twin that died).

Borden's twin was never married, he was hitting it off with Scarlett Johansson. And it was he that died at the end, and Borden got his daughter back. That was the point.

[CreeperBEATNGU]

SPOILERS


And I still think Borden besting Angier was a bad ending.

[bigred760]

MORE SPOILERS!!!

Originally posted by CreeperBEATNGU
And I still think Borden besting Angier was a bad ending. I don't think Borden shooting Angier would be considered "besting" him. To one up him he would've had to come up with a better trick. But just shooting him wasn't in any winning. They were both losers in one way or another.

[GavinE]

Saw this tonight and was blown away. Christopher Nolan really is a great filmmaker and writer. I think that, with the way that Memento and The Prestige have turned out, that Nolan has become the king of splintered chronology storytelling. The twists were wonderful ad Christian Bale is slowly becoming my favorite actor. Great film.

[chinton]

Originally posted by CreeperBEATNGU
SPOILERS



They both suffered losses, but one more so than the other. There really should've been no winner in any way, that last laugh ending didn't work for me at all.
I know they wanted to show what obsession can to do someone, but to show exactly how destructive it is, both men's losses should've been equal, I don't feel that they were (and I believe it was Borden's twin that lost his wife, and it appeared that it was the more caring twin that died).



I still disagree. Borden won in a superficial sense. Both character are forever changed by what they did. Borden lost his own brother and wife (whether he cares about her or not). Yes he has his daughter but much like the film Straw Dogs both main characters went downa dark road they can never return from thereby proving the thematic point of the film.

[Typezer0]

I have seen The Illusionist 3 times and The Prestige once. Both excellent films. The Illusionist is by far a more simplier film. But has Ed Norton and Paul Giamanti (big fan of both). Perfectly cast. Paul should get an Oscar for it. Norton was perfect. I had some questions but have figured them out. Defintely worth seeing.

The Illusionist 8/10

The Prestige 8/10

The Prestige is a more complex story. Bigger production and it shows. Also an excellent cast. I was really excited for the Tesla scenes. This is the first time there has been some real effort and budget behind his story. I was happy with how they portrayed him but didn't like David Bowie as Tesla. Nothing against Bowie. He did an excellent job. But I don't think Tesla was that age at that time. I could be wrong. It's a minor thing.

The story is about the rival between two magicians. They touch on the rival between Edison and Tesla. That's the movie I want to see. Please someone make a whip Tesla movie.

And Andy Serkis was excellent as Tesla's assistant. He actually had some good screen time.

I'm not sure if I got it all right with the twists and things. So if anyone spots that I am wrong. Correct me because I want to know. The more I analyse The Prestige the more I like it's complexity. Here's what I got out of it and some questions:



_________________________________________



SUPER SPOILERS! DON'T READ UNLESS YOU HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE.

The rivalry gets going when Angier's(Hugh Jackman) wife dies in the water tank. It's back and fourth on each of them getting back at another. Bird cage, shot in hand, broken leg. Then frame for murder. I knew something was up with Borden's (Christian Bale) assistant. That was obvious.

We find out that he has a twin brother. Remember the quick out the door back in the room with his wife scene? Twins playing games. One twin falls in love with Scarlett J and the other had a wife and child. The one in jail was the one in love with Scarlett right? And then later got hung. While the other shot Angier and reunited with his daughter. Also having a twin is why he could never answer the question of which knot was tied.


Tesla's machine did work for Angier and created clones. Hat and cats outside. This is where I get foggy. There's a scene where Angier is in the machine and he sees a double and shoots him. Who got shot, Angier or the double? And was that the first test with the machine? Then Angier sets up 100 shows meaning 100 clones would be produced. So one dies for every performance of the trick. And he then frames Borden with the murder of himself (original or clone drowned?). See then they show Borden attempting to break the glass. Why and which Borden was it?

Didn't Tesla build a machine for Borden? If so was it the same kind? And did it work? Why wouldn't the twin be the result from that machine? Or am I mixing things up?

So the Angier that got shot at the end of the movie was a clone, right?

Did Borden's wife know he had a twin brother? Why would she kill herself when she had a child? She could just left him.

Again it's a clone when they show the final shot of Angier hiding when Borden is walking away from a dead angier (clone or original?)

The whole killing the bird thing and having a double over and over parallels the main story. How cool! END OF SPOILERS!

I can't remember to much more. I need to see it again.

[chinton]

See this is where people get tripped up. There is no clone and there is no original becuase both Angiers are alike inevery way. The surviving Angier would think of himself as the original since he survived but both Angiers are interchangeable.

[Typezer0]

See this is where people get tripped up. There is no clone and there is no original becuase both Angiers are alike inevery way. The surviving Angier would think of himself as the original since he survived but both Angiers are interchangeable. [/B]

Is the machine creating a clone for every performace? Thus also killing one?

Did the machine work?

And what about the bar look a like (Angier)?

[chinton]

Originally posted by Typezer0
Is the machine creating a clone for every performace? Thus also killing one?

Did the machine work?

And what about the bar look a like (Angier)?

The look-alike was just a look-alike.

Borden's twin was just a twin. Cutter revealed this early in the film.

The machine make two Angiers, both equal in every way. One dies and one lives. The one who lives probably thinks he's the original becuase he's the one who's alive but again they are the same in every way. He is both committing murder and suicide every night.

[Typezer0]

When people say clone they really mean "the next one" . But there had to be a first one meaing the original. Before the machine. Where does that one end up?

Is the scene where Angier shoots the other Angier the first test of the machine?

And who gets shot?

Thanks for the input.

[bigred760]

Hey guys, put some spoiler warnings on your posts. I've seen the movie, but there are others who haven't and might read something that gives the movie away. (I like to put the spoiler messages in a lighter color so if the person wants to read it, they can highlight it.)

Like so: :D

MAJOR SPOILERS!!!
This is what I got out of the movie: I think it's the clone that gets shot the very first time Angiers uses it. The original Angiers is still in the machine when all is said and done and then he says his clone and panics and shoots the mofo.

It's my belief that a clone died during every performance. When the trap door opened after the lightning show, an Angiers clone would fall through and drown - which is why we see that very last shot of the movie before the credits roll. After the trap door thing, the original Angiers would show up on the balcony - taa daa.

[chinton]

Originally posted by Typezer0
When people say clone they really mean "the next one" . But there had to be a first one meaing the original. Before the machine. Where does that one end up?

Is the scene where Angier shoots the other Angier the first test of the machine?

And who gets shot?

Thanks for the input.


It is your interpretation which one was oroginal but considering the two Angiers are exactly the same its a moot point. Think of the machine splitting a man into two. In the end it doesn't really matter which is the original. The interpreation is up to you depending on how you want to interpret Angier's action ethically and morally.

[fooknasty]

I adore both Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale, so I was exceptionally pumped up tp see this movie.

In the end, I thought it was very good, but I wasn't blown away.

My interpretation of the film, so SPOILERS:

There were some things that never made sense to me. First, why did Christian Bale's wife kill herself? Pointless. Really made no sense, but that's ok. Secondly, if one twin brother each loved a different woman, why would the twin who didn't love that specific woman ever interact with the woman they didn't love......I'm confused. If twin "A" loved his wife, and twin "B" loved Scarlett, why would twin "A" ever interact with Scarlett, or twin "B" ever interact with the wife. That was unnecessary, Bale's life didn't have to be miserable, but he made it that way.

Second, I take it that Thomas Edison's goons burned Telsa's lab down to the ground. Anyways, was Bale's twin a clone that he made from the previous machine that Telsa made for him? Or was he a biological clone? I just assumed that he was just a clone from the machine.

Ending, I take it as Jackman creates a clone, and then out of fear kills it. Everytime he makes a clone of himself, he kills it. We never know which Jackman character dies, the clone or the original, which I like because it just adds to the mystery of the movie. And I am guessing that at the end, Caine's character turns complete 360, and becomes friends with Bale's character, or was he friends with him all along?

[Jessica3000]

Originally posted by Celluloid Love
***** SPOILERS *****


3. Which Angier was the original after Tesla's machine is used? I know nobody has the direct answer to this (unless maybe it's in the book somewhere). Part of me wants to say whichever one is in the machine is the original. But that would imply that while Angier survives the first use of the machine, he subsequently kills himself every show. Conversely, if the original is the one that transports, then the original Angier died during that first test run.




You know, I too am really puzzled about this..and yes, it seems there may be no apparent answer. But just a thought I had..I was thinking about the hats in the woods that appeared about half way through the film. When they tell Angier that he can take his hat, he asks which one is his hat. And they say that they all are. Perhaps they put this in here to address the question that we would have at the end..which one is the real Angier..IS there a real Angier? At the end, he was explaining how it was scary for him to do the act each night because he didn't know if he would be the man "in the box" or the transported man. Wouldn't it be the same every night though? Are these consciences meshed together somehow? I don't know what I'm trying to say..and I know a lot of what I'm saying doesn't really make sense. It just kind of boggles my mind though. He still has his memory though, even if he was a "clone". I think the only way to figure it out what exactly happens with this machine. Does it transport the original and leave the duplicate behind, or transport a duplicate and leave the original? This also addresses the question of whether Angier really ever gets to see his applause, or if it's his clone that does. But if it's the clone that's transported..why would they kill the original in the tank? It must then, be the clone that is left behind? I just don't know. But I still don't see how he couldn't know if he would be in the box or the transported man..which kind of meshes their consciences together maybe. I could go on forever here..so I'm just leaving my little rant at that.

I'm glad to see that so many enjoyed the film, I thought it was amazing. The directing alone was beautiful..the performances grand, and the story captivated me. I love the incorporation of drama into the whole spectacle, behind all of these grander questions was also questions of morality and life, of what you make with your life and how people deal with that aspect. I loved how the film presented these complex characters that delt with these different struggles and how they handled them. I also love how it made you judge a character to start off but, like a magic trick, can make you totally feel different about that person in the end. People are not always as they appear, and these characters certainly had multiple layers and were developed well. I hope it is a well recieved film, it deserves the acclaim. Best of the year for me. 8/10

[Typezer0]

In real life Tesla's Colorado lab was torn down and sold for scraps. I thought it was weird that it implied that Edison's goons burned it down. Telsa's lab in NY burned down. I wonder if Edison had something to do with it.

I always thought that copy 1 would fall through the floor and the new copy #2 would show up elsewhere. Then repeat every night. I figured that the first original Angier shot the first copy on the trial run of the machine. Leaving the first original alive. The first original Angier then dies on the first live show. Then cop after copy after copy.

But as chinton stated here it really doesn't matter. And he is right. If you want to figure out 1st and 2nd it's fun. But they are all the same. More same then Borden's twin is to him.

I wondered too why the wife of Borden's killed herself. Especially having a child. I think that the twins switched like that for fun and a sick fuck sense of play.

[bigred760]

SPOILERS!!!!


Originally posted by Typezer0
I always thought that copy 1 would fall through the floor and the new copy #2 would show up elsewhere. Then repeat every night. I figured that the first original Angier shot the first copy on the trial run of the machine. Leaving the first original alive. The first original Angier then dies on the first live show. Then cop after copy after copy.


I disagree. I think the original Angiers was always alive and was the guy that appeared on the balcony after every performance. A clone was copied every performance, a clone was killed every performance - drowned, and then the clone of the clone would be used in the next performance (and then subsequently killed). This would've gone on for a while until Borden showed up and then Angiers would have his revenge.

I wondered too why the wife of Borden's killed herself. Especially having a child. I think that the twins switched like that for fun and a sick fuck sense of play.

She was lonely, depressed, and thought her husband was having an affair with the hot blonde with big Johanssons. But we all know that wasn't true, one twin loved his wife, the other loved the blonde. They didn't do it because they're twisted or sick, but to ensure their secret and success in magic. Hell, the condemned brother even apologized for it before he hanged.

[Typezer0]

Originally posted by bigred760
SPOILERS!!!!

She was lonely, depressed, and thought her husband was having an affair with the hot blonde with big Johanssons.

Thanks for the awesome laugh. Fuck that's funny. :D :D

So you're saying that the original Angier was teleported from machine to balcony everynight. Isn't there something in the movie about not knowing where the copy is going to show up? Meaning it would be the copy on the balcony?

[bigred760]

SPOILERS!!!

Originally posted by Typezer0
So you're saying that the original Angier was teleported from machine to balcony everynight. Isn't there something in the movie about not knowing where the copy is going to show up? Meaning it would be the copy on the balcony?

No, I'm saying the original Angiers would always hide in the balcony (whether for the whole show, or for that one particular trick - who knows?). If there was no telling where the clone would appear, how did it always end up at the balcony? It was a clone that went into the machine and dropped through the trap door (and drown every time) and the original Angiers would pop out of somewhere on the balcony. The clone that came out of the trick would headline the next show (and subsequently drown).

[Typezer0]

Makes sense as the original always wanted the applause. I thought some posts here were stating differently.

See I'm confused because on a random night how many Angiers existed? If the original is hiding in the balcony he must create a copy prior to that copy walking through the machine and then drown. So without another copy walking the town's streets somewhere "The Dupilcator" doesn't work during performance but makes a copy prior to showtime.

Am I right or am I way the fuck off? First ask yourself: did the machine produce a copy during the performance? If so then did the copy it created fall through the floor and drown? While the original hid in the balcony? I always assumed there was only one alive at a time.

One comes out and does the show, wheels out Tesla's magnificant, magical, mystery machine, and walks through and drowns underneath. New for a minute or so there exist two Angiers until the ones drowns. Then we repeat the same thing over.

Fucking awesome anyway you fold it!

[bigred760]

Originally posted by Typezer0
One comes out and does the show, wheels out Tesla's magnificant, magical, mystery machine, and walks through and drowns underneath. New for a minute or so there exist two Angiers until the ones drowns. Then we repeat the same thing over.


It's the way I see it. And I figure since these are exact clones of Angiers, they have the same mindset of revenge and "one-up-manship." It works out for him that way.

[echo_bravo]

I cant believe I held off seeing this film until last night. The more I have been thinking about it and reading what some of you have said has made me love it even more.

This movie was surprising very dark. I guess I should of expected that with Nolan directing. Speaking of which, Nolan is hands down one of the most brillant directors working today. I couldnt of imagined anyone else directing this as good as him.

With that being said, my real only complaint was...and please dont hate me fan boys...but it was Scarlett. I am just bored to death with her acting. Yes, she has very nice yum yums but her acting is beyond boring and she didnt bring anything to the table.

Overall excellent film that makes you think and keeps you guessing. I cant wait to see it again.

9/10

[Typezer0]

After seeing it a second time it's much clearer.

I originally gave it a 8/10. Now a 9-9.5/10.

I believe that the first trial run of the machine the #2 shot the #1. What's interesting was why did he shoot him anyway? He knew he that there was a good chance that a #2 would pop up some where. He said he placed a gun near by in case something bad happened and he didn't want to live like that.

What I'm trying to figure out is, if it is possible that at the time of creating a #2 that one of the two Angiers knows something the other does not. But no, even if the #1 said "ok, before you try this remember if you see a double don't shoot it" (because the double might be me). Then the #2 would be thinking that at the time of creation. What's so fucking cool about this concept is as stated before, each at the very instant of seeing each other they shared the identical thoughts. Both knowing about the gun. Both thinking they are the original and the other is a copy. I wonder for a moment if it would of been cool to have a split second where both see each other and look towards the gun, but the one closest grabs it and the other one says, "Wait , I'm the ....". I say this because if the Angier that was by the box (outside of the machine) was closer to the gun, would he have picked it up and raised it and then the other Angier says "Wait, I'm the...."

I think that even knowing that #1 might see a double, there was a sense of panic and the one closer to the gun acted and the other responded and got shot.

I wanted the #1 to get shot by the #2 on the trial run. It makes it more stranger. It's weird how myself and others (audience) feels the loss of the original but not of any of the others. They are the same. So it doesn't matter. But it's fun to think about who shot who, because there has to be a #1(original).

It's possible that instead of having an Angier get shot they do the Borden/Fallon disguise act but still use the balcony. Meaning one is hiding for every show. They switch like Borden/Fallon did. Borden and Fallon could of done that. They had a gizmo device for looks. The Angiers could disable the "flux capacitor" in the duplicator so it just becomes a show machine. One drops through the floor and the one hiding pops up in the balcony.

Then there is no "killing clones". Then you have the situation that the two Angiers compete with each other. Because they don't have the bond that Borden/Fallon twins do.

[Typezer0]

Also you have to assume that Angier planned 100 shows knowing that Borden would get curious and come back stage. He did it before, it's a matter of time. The odds are there that Borden will fall for Angier's bait with in 100 shows. I don't remember anything stating how many shows actually occurred before Borden went back stage.

You could ask yourself: Why would Angier spend all that time and money on a new box, water and moving it around when he could of just pull the body out and discard it? It's probably safe to assume that Angier purposely made a display of moving a huge object after every show knowing Borden would be watching and grow curious about it and have to go back stage to see what it was all about.

Then at that one particular show Angier sees or is told that Borden went backstage and walks into the machine knowing this time, this show not to appear to the audience on the balcony. Because if he did it would blow the murder frame. So the Angier that is suppose to raise for the prestige does not and stays low.

I thought that this was a way to prove that the one that enters the machine always gets transported to another location because he knew to lay low on that show. But NOPE! Both Angiers share the same thoughts, so the the Angier in the tank knows Borden is below stage prior to falling into the tank.

I think that the one that steps into the machine gets transported and the new Angier goes into the tank. But it could very well be the opposite. I don't think that there is a way to prove it either way, unless the book states it.

I love this movie, this is what it's suppose to be about. Fantastic film making that is making other directors certianly notice.

M Night, this is how you make a movie that makes you think for days after, and not think days after that you were robbed at the cinema.

[Typezer0]

I was trying to find if there was more at play in the story then what we were seeing. I wondered if a rivalry or resentment was developing between the twins. That borden became upset with Fallon that he led his wife to suicide.

Someone had stated before how do the twins decide who gets put in jail? I think when Borden says to Fallon "We're done, give him the trick." Fallon can't quit. He keeps pursuing it. And gets to the point that he goes back stage and gets framed. Once below stage he gets apprehended and from there he is takin into custody. So there is no deciding. Fallon fell for the bait.

I just wondered in the back of my head if Borden was up to something.
___________
I'm getting confused by an earlier post about who's who.

Borden is the one married to Sara and has a child. Survives in the end and reunites with his child.

Fallon is the one in love with Scarlett, sent to jail and is hung.

Isn't there a scene when the twins are talking at the jail saying goodbye and the one being hung says sorry about your wife? This is a head fuck because Borden in jail is talking to Fallon dressed with beard and glasses. But really it's Fallon in jail and Borden is wearing the disguise this time.

Do I have this right?
______

I want to say the performences were excellent. Yes, Scarlett is a sweetheart with her nice, firm, plump Johanssons( someone else's term), but I thought that Rebecca Hall was perfect, and Michael Caine did a fantastic job.

[Chris411]

Spoilers








Some people have been saying in this thread that it seemed wrong that Borden was the one that won out in the end. I'd disagree. A major theme of the movie was the idea that obsession comes with a price. Angier was the one who arguably started the entire conflict, Angier was the one who kept trying to discover and steal Borden's tricks, Angier was the one who traveled to colorado and threw a fortune away. Angier was the more obsessed of the two, and he ultimately paid the greater price as a result. On top of this, of the two bordens, the one that refused to concede and went to discover angier's apparatus paid the price of death for the continued obsession. The one character who conceded defeat in the entire movie, the second borden, ended up with his daughter and his life.

[KingofKings25]

Saw this last night and I thought it was terrible.

4/10 - Would have been good if Bale wasn't in it.

[Typezer0]

Originally posted by KingofKings25
Saw this last night and I thought it was terrible.

4/10 - Would have been good if Bale wasn't in it.


Don't they have a comedy section here somewhere? LOL!.

[bigred760]

SPOILERS!!!!

Originally posted by Chris411
Spoilers








Some people have been saying in this thread that it seemed wrong that Borden was the one that won out in the end. I'd disagree. A major theme of the movie was the idea that obsession comes with a price. Angier was the one who arguably started the entire conflict, Angier was the one who kept trying to discover and steal Borden's tricks, Angier was the one who traveled to colorado and threw a fortune away. Angier was the more obsessed of the two, and he ultimately paid the greater price as a result. On top of this, of the two bordens, the one that refused to concede and went to discover angier's apparatus paid the price of death for the continued obsession. The one character who conceded defeat in the entire movie, the second borden, ended up with his daughter and his life.


I'll agree with you that Angier was the more obsessed of the two, but don't forget it was Borden who had a hand in killing his wife. Angier wanted to know how the trick was done so he could do it better. And the story goes from there.

[Shockwave]

I LOVED IT.

9/10.


One of the most entertaining movies ive seen this year. A def on my top 10!

I love Nolan, but i really did not expect the subject matter and themes to grab me in the way they did.

Its good to see Michael Cain kicking ass again of late.:cool:

[Typezer0]

Michael Caine was excellent. I thought everyone did an excellent job.

At least 9/10.

[Chris411]

Originally posted by bigred760
SPOILERS!!!!




I'll agree with you that Angier was the more obsessed of the two, but don't forget it was Borden who had a hand in killing his wife. Angier wanted to know how the trick was done so he could do it better. And the story goes from there.

Obviously Spoilers


Maybe i missed something then. Yes, Borden did have hand in killing the wife, but he did not have any intention of killing her. Borden and Angier's wife were both up for the idea of using a different knot, but Angier was against it because he thought it wouldn't have come undone as easily. Before she dies, Borden changes the knot after he gets a sort of nod from her as an OK. They both wanted to try it as they thought it would make the show better. Unfortunately the wife wasn't practiced enough to undo the knot and drowned as a result.
You could argue that Borden lied to Angier about which knot he tied, but it comes down to the fact that Angier made the first purposeful intent on someone's life, and therefore died at the end.

[Max Cady]

....Now I understand what he meant when he said "Drowning was like going home" but then said "Drowning felt like agony".

[bigred760]

SPOILERS!!!!







Originally posted by Chris411
Obviously Spoilers


Maybe i missed something then. Yes, Borden did have hand in killing the wife, but he did not have any intention of killing her. Borden and Angier's wife were both up for the idea of using a different knot, but Angier was against it because he thought it wouldn't have come undone as easily. Before she dies, Borden changes the knot after he gets a sort of nod from her as an OK. They both wanted to try it as they thought it would make the show better. Unfortunately the wife wasn't practiced enough to undo the knot and drowned as a result.

I'll give you that.


You could argue that Borden lied to Angier about which knot he tied, but it comes down to the fact that Angier made the first purposeful intent on someone's life, and therefore died at the end.

This is where it gets interesting though; I don't think Borden lied about the knot - it's just that the one that showed up to the funeral didn't know because it wasn't him that tied the knot, it was his brother. So Angier may have made the first purposeful intent, but he didn't know it because he assumed Borden did.

[BriZai]

Great movie, loved it, gonna have to get it on DVD to try and wrack my brain around all the twists and possibilities that were in the movie.
9/10

[Se7en]

Originally posted by bigred760
SPOILERS!!!!


This is where it gets interesting though; I don't think Borden lied about the knot - it's just that the one that showed up to the funeral didn't know because it wasn't him that tied the knot, it was his brother. So Angier may have made the first purposeful intent, but he didn't know it because he assumed Borden did.

Also he confirmed he wasnt sure in his Diary. I didnt like the answer his wife got when she asked if he loved her though. He should have lied then.

[InvaderZim]

Awesome movie. 9.5/10 i enjoyed it more than any movie this year. Yes that includes departed. The ending was a bit of a let down im ny opinion but still a masterpiece

[silentasylum]

I enjoyed this movie , too.


9/10

[David_T]

I'm surprised this thread made it to 6 pages without anyone bringing up Arthur C. Clarkes famous quote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[bigred760]

Originally posted by David_T
I'm surprised this thread made it to 6 pages without anyone bringing up Arthur C. Clarkes famous quote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

What about it?

[David_T]

That's what Teslas machine is, technology sufficiently advanced to be indistinguishable from magic, even to an extent to himself (since he doesn't know how it does what it does). As Cutter said, "a wizard made this". So in the end, even the real magic isn't.

Since that was one of the themes of the movie, and the quote so accurately captures that aspect of it, is why I was surprised that the thread made it six pages without anyone mentioning this rather famous quote. Especially since some people were disappointed that the ending was "magicked".

[Lord Raiden]

Wow. I guess I shouldn't have gone into this with such great expectation. Overall, it was a very well done movie but the ridiculous climax really just dumbs the whole thing down to a 6/10.

[fabxxx]

WOW.

I just saw the movie yesterday and went thru most of the posts here trying to figure out more about the twists. I want to give it another second watch closely since I still have questions.

SPOILERS
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.
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I think it's incredible that the first shot of the movie gives you the answer that the machine works and actually makes "copies". And asks you to pay close attention... Genius!

The twin twist was easy to figure out but I want to watch it again to pay close attention and see if I spot who's who, especially since it looks like one of them has an eyebrow with a "missing" patch... I did notice it during the film but didn't put 2 and 2 together...

1. My main question is why Bale sent Hugh to see Tesla? If he was aware of Tesla's experiments, and just didn't have the money to finance it, why he was so surprised once Hugh finally came with an "improved" Transported Men?... He should have thought that Tesla's machine finally worked...
If he was not aware of Tesla's experiments, why send Hugh there?....

2. About the last scene. I have two takes on it:
a.First I want to clarify something I read here... it was said that Hugh used the machine one more time after the last show and recently created a copy of him "just in case¨, that's why the body in the tank doesn't show decomposing signs, so the one shot by Bale was just a "copy¨ and one last Hugh was saved somewhere... The final Prestige!!
Well... That doesn't add up... If there's a body in the tank, one died and one got created, leaving just one Hugh alive.

b.My take on the last scene was that the FIRST and ORIGINAL Hugh was the one we see in the tank in the final scene. I understand the theory that they are both the same person, not a copy (that's why I've used " " marks) and not a clone. And also that Hugh himself didn't know if the ORIGINAL one was the one transported or the one falling in the trap under the machine, but that's because he's the same person just in a different place.
For me the first time Hugh performed the trick in the show, he basically drowned the ORIGINAL one. And even if it's random, at some point you have to agree that the ORIGINAL one will fall in the tank and drown, correct?
For me that last scene means that... It shows the ORIGINAL Hugh dead in the tank. It kind means Bale just killed a "copy" and that the ORIGINAL one has been dead for a long time...

[Typezer0]

I would guess that Borden sent Angier to Tesla on a wild goose chase. To another country. Spend money etc. Get his competition out of his hair and he can continue his act. Angier was gone for 2 yrs.

i don't think there is any proof either way which is which referring to who drowned and who lived. 3 possibilities. It's random and the chances are both switched (not by choice). Or it's possible only the #2 drowns, or it's possible only the original drowns.

i agree that Nolan dangles the answers in your face through the whole film. The birds, how they die in a cage. Just like a copy drowning in a tank. A sacrifice. Cutter flat out telling everybody "It's a double" . But because it's such a simple solution it's not easily believed, both by Angier and even the audience watching the movie.

Yes you can tell Fallon was odd and made you think something was up, but with this film you can't rule anything out.

I don't think that there is another Angier in the end. But it's awesome to know that Borden is thinking and wondering probably til he dies, is there another Angier lurking around and did Angier get one up on me.

[David_T]

Originally posted by Typezer0
i don't think there is any proof either way which is which referring to who drowned and who lived. 3 possibilities. It's random and the chances are both switched (not by choice). Or it's possible only the #2 drowns, or it's possible only the original drowns. There's the fourth possibility, which is actually Teslas explanation of his machine. When activated, the machine transports Angier to the balcony. At the same time, when activated the machine leaves Angier on the spot. They're not both an Angier, it's one Angier in two places. When they first discover the effects of the machine, Tesla reminds Angier to take his hat with him. Angier looks at them and goes "Which one is my hat?", i.e. which one is the original, and Tesla goes "They're all your hat".

[Typezer0]

All of this has been discussed before. I think the best way is to consider them is as duplicates and # 1 and #2.

Regardless of which Angier is transported to the balcony the other one drowns. Being that they are equal the only way you can refer to who's who is #1 and #2. The one that walks into the machine is #1 and the duplicate of the #1 is the #2.

It's possible too that the one that walks into the machine vaporizes and two duplicates are created. One must live and the other must die.

I think what's beautiful about this concept is he could technically create one duplicate and pull the plug on the machine. Use the double like Borden did. But, because Angier changed and was willing to get his hands dirty by killing the bird even though Cutter showed him the live bird, you could assume that Angier became more and more obsessed with competing with Borden and wanted the lime light (The Prestige - ovation) at the end of his Transported Man, and wasn't willing to share that lime light even with a live duplicate. This works with him setting up 100 shows knowing that Borden was going to be watching him and would eventually come backstage. Figuring 100 shows was probably plenty for Borden to see the blind helpers hauling an empty tank and would raise his suspicions.

[fabxxx]

^^^^^ I'm with you Typezer0...

I was just wondering why it seems Nolan was "revelaing" something in the last shot of the movie showing a dead Angier in a tank and saying something like "Were you paying attention?" in the same way he "reveals" the hats in the opening scene... Like book-ends...

I do think *that* was the original Angier... and like the opening scene closes the film with some sort of "revelation"... or maybe I'm just reading too much into it. :D

We should go and ask Mr. Nolan!! ;)

[Typezer0]

They're not both an Angier, it's one Angier in two places.

Great idea but the two Angiers think independently. Example: When Angier first tried the machine. This would then make them two independent entities.

[chinton]

It doesn't matter is they think independently they're still Angiers in every way shape and form. Therefore looking for the original is moot and totally missing the point. Every night Angier both commits murder and commits suicide.

[Typezer0]

I was just wondering why it seems Nolan was "revelaing" something in the last shot of the movie showing a dead Angier in a tank and saying something like "Were you paying attention?" in the same way he "reveals" the hats in the opening scene... Like book-ends...

I don't think the last Angier in the tank was suggesting anything beyond the fact that we were seeing what Borden was seeing as he walked out. The sheer scope of Angier's desperate, competitive attempt to defeat Borden. The extreme measures Angier went through.

But some have suggested that the condition of the body was is good shape and not bloated, meaning a more recent drowning. But it was closer to the door they came in meaning, the room was filling up with tanks with bodies in them. It's such a quick shot of that body that if it was bloated at all the audience might not be able to recognize it as Angier.

Fuck I love this movie!

[Berserker]

first of all, christopher nolan is my favorite director. seeing what i think is all of nolan's movies before the prestige (including the following) i had huge expectations for this film. i have to say i wasn't disappointed. it may not have been the same classic that memento was but it was truly a great film--cast, director, screenplay--everything. it has to be on my top three of 2006. i heard people slam it because it deceived them with the science and all, but have you read the strange case of dr. jekyll and mr. hyde? it's of the same time and it truly is a classic. the whole purpose of this time period is that science was a new and mysterious thing with endless possibilities. overall, i have to give the movie AT LEAST an 8/10 but if i weren't so hard at rating movies i'd give it a 9 or 10. this movie is a definite must see.

[Typezer0]

Originally posted by chinton
It doesn't matter is they think independently they're still Angiers in every way shape and form. Therefore looking for the original is moot and totally missing the point. Every night Angier both commits murder and commits suicide.

Take the scene when Angier tries the machine for the first time. There is an Angier that stands (or remains) after walking into the machine and then there's an Angier created from that 1st (original) Angier. Even though they are identical there was a 1st and 2nd. To have two exist, 1 has to fire up The Duplicator and walk into it. That's what I mean by "original", who was first. Other then that yes, it doesn't matter.

To try and figure which one is which is a different ball of wax.

[chinton]

Originally posted by Typezer0
Take the scene when Angier tries the machine for the first time. There is an Angier that stands (or remains) after walking into the machine and then there's an Angier created from that 1st (original) Angier. Even though they are identical there was a 1st and 2nd. To have two exist, 1 has to fire up The Duplicator and walk into it. That's what I mean by "original", who was first. Other then that yes, it doesn't matter.

To try and figure which one is which is a different ball of wax.

I understand where you're coming from I just get why people are obsessing over that. Yes there's a first and second but since we aren't really shown that one is worse or better than the other it just becomes insignificant to me when trying to decode the larger parts of the puzzle.

[Typezer0]

Originally posted by chinton
I understand where you're coming from I just get why people are obsessing over that. Yes there's a first and second but since we aren't really shown that one is worse or better than the other it just becomes insignificant to me when trying to decode the larger parts of the puzzle.

Well said. And I agree. It's fun to toss around and to look for clues. With this movie being multi-layered and tricky, you can't rule out that there might be something to pick up on that might lead us to think a certain solution to a question we may have.