Plenty of reasons to hate Freddy vs Jason

[Kevin Lockard]

I'm sure FvJ has been bitched about before and since I just mentioned it as one of those pissy endings in the other thread, I though I might as well go ahead and let out some frustrations about the entire movie here.


1. Ken Kirzenger was fine but there was absolutely NO reason to replace Kane Hodder. "Too Tall"? Too tall for what? And isn't Ken taller than Hodder? Lol. Alsdo, the whole "Looking for a new Jason with emotional eyes" one. It was pathetic.

2. The entire movie seemed like a Nightmare movie starring Jason. The characters were Freddy, the setting was Freddy, the plot revolved completely around Freddy, Jason is sold as a "misunderstood" unstoppable killer that is actually asking to be reasoned with with sympthy (sp?). Because of that, he is seen as some sort of "good guy" when up against Freddy. But make no mistake: This is Freddy's movie. (Was it Arrow who said that? I think I remember reading that from somewhere, lol.)

3. Hearing Freddy say "Bitch" every few lines got really old really fast.

4. Having Nancy's old house (otherwise known as Freddy's house) turned back into a liveable house was stupid as well.

5. This movie has TEEN MOVIE written all over it. The dialogue from the teenagers is so stereotyped and pathetic beyond belief that it is hard to sit through. Playing "Marry, Fuck, or KIll", talking about "Oh, you need to get laid" and whatnot. The characters were all stererotyped. The girl who had the lost love and the boy as well, the guy everyone thinks is crazy but actually is the one who knows what's up, the father who doesn't understand, the police captain who doesn't believe the truth, the rookie cop who turns into a rebel to help the kids, the stoner, the misunderstood kid, etc. etc. How about writing some realistic teenage characters?

6. A subplot involving Lori's mother's "death" because Freddy killed her? Excuse me, baking powder? Lol. So, was this before Freddy was "forgotten" or after? If it was before, then why would Freddy bother killing mothers and such when he could have just killed Lori and others? And if it was after, then how did he kill her anyhow? Simply because it was only the kids who "forgot" about him? If that's the case, then why not kill Lori's father as well to strike even more fear into Lori and why not kill other parents while you're at that just for the hell of it? Stupid.

7. Will and whatever his friend's name was escaped from the mental place (which was supposed to be the same place from the 3rd Nightmare, LOL!), didn't they escape, I dunno, a little too easy? if it really is THAT easy to escape from such a place so fast, then why sit around waiting for a reason to do so?

8. They tried to actually show how Jason actually drowned as a kid in Lori's dream at Camp Crystal lake. Look, we've all seen the clips of Jason drowning, no need to give us the full treatement, we know the story. This pisses me off more than anything, just like how they show Freddy being killed as if he lived in a basement and someone threw a cocktail down there to burn him to death, like in Freddy's Dead and in a shot in the monologue. The way Freddy died was that he was in his boiler room when the parents of Elm Street poured gasoline inside and led a trail of it all the way out. They then lit the match, watched it trail into flames and then went in and hid his remians afterwards. I don't like having my intelligence insulted.

9. They actually tried to pass off Freddy as a "Child Molestor." There are no hinst in other Nightmare movies backing this up at all but no, they have to make him one to make him seem so much more EVIL than he already is. Whatever. Freddy has always been known as a child killer, and seeing him trying to rape Lori was just silly. I suppose this was also supposed to enforce the whole "Jason=Misunderstood, Freddy=Pure evil" since we see Jason actually get turned into a child and we see Freddy pick on him. Just trying to make Jason more "reasonable" and Freddy more evil at the same time but it sucks.

10. This movie stars Kelly Rowland.

11. What's up with the Hong Kong tones? Freddy gets forearmed, he goes flying through the air. Jason lifts a guy's body and tosses it, it goes flying through the air. Freddy goes karate a bit in the final fight as well.

12. Freddy has one kill. One Kill. Freddy has one kill....one. And the dialogue in that scene is horrible, up until Freddy gets out of the tub.

13. Could they not have SPOONFEED the plot to us anymore as if we don't already get it?!? Having the characters repeat the basic plot over and over and then as I mentioned above, to have Freddy actually come out and say "That's why I needed Jason to kill for me to get to remember......", almost as if they thought the audience should be writing it down just to keep up.

14. No balls. Some might argue that it's better to have an ending where both come out looking good but I disgress. One should have won over the other, bottomline. Regardless of what happened to him afterwards, that's the way it shoould have been in my mind. At the premiere, they didn't even show the very end of the movie but left a message saying to wait for the movie to be relased in theaters officially to find out the real winner. Good one.

15. "Welcome to my world, bitch!" Straight from Lori's mouth before she decapitates Freddy. At least they got rid of the "Freddy vs Jason...place your bets!" line.





So, okay, there are some positive things as well. The "jerkoff" part after Freddy gets his arms cut off was pretty original and the final fight was brutal, at least right at the end of it, not when Freddy-San is kicking his leg into Jason's face and doging his machete at all costs. And most of all, Freddy's opening monologue was absolutely great. Most of Freddy's lines were great as well, like "Got your nose!" Well, okay, no they weren't. There might be one or two other things but that's it. Fuck this movie.





:D :D :D :D :D :D

[jackson13]

Originally posted by God of Cinema
11. What's up with the Hong Kong tones? Freddy gets forearmed, he goes flying through the air. Jason lifts a guy's body and tosses it, it goes flying through the air. Freddy goes karate a bit in the final fight as well.

Well, that can be explained simply by looking at the director: Ronny Yu.

A lot of things piss me off about this movie as well, but dammit, I still love it. My 2 favorite horror characters in 1 movie....I cant hate it.

[ZenDude]

F vs. J was worse than Alien vs Predator and thats saying a lot. Neither are worthy to sit among my collection. :D

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by God of Cinema



1. Ken Kirzenger was fine but there was absolutely NO reason to replace Kane Hodder. "Too Tall"? Too tall for what? And isn't Ken taller than Hodder? Lol. Alsdo, the whole "Looking for a new Jason with emotional eyes" one. It was pathetic.

Meh, matter of personal taste. He walked, he stalked, he slashed. He was Jason. That's about all it takes to play him. :)

2. The entire movie seemed like a Nightmare movie starring Jason. The characters were Freddy, the setting was Freddy, the plot revolved completely around Freddy, Jason is sold as a "misunderstood" unstoppable killer that is actually asking to be reasoned with with sympthy (sp?). Because of that, he is seen as some sort of "good guy" when up against Freddy. But make no mistake: This is Freddy's movie. (Was it Arrow who said that? I think I remember reading that from somewhere, lol.)

Gotta disagree. You can't misunderstand someone who kills about fifty people in a cornfield. Or your boyfriend when he's in bed. Or your best friend while she's sleeping in a cornfield. The only reason the characters helped Jason was because they knew he was the only one who could kill Krueger. And with any luck, they'd kill each other.

3. Hearing Freddy say "Bitch" every few lines got really old really fast.

Some variation wouldn't have hurt, I agree.

4. Having Nancy's old house (otherwise known as Freddy's house) turned back into a liveable house was stupid as well.

The point was that Springwood had rebuilt, had forgotten Krueger. What better way to forget him than to bring the house up to code and have people start living in it again?

5. This movie has TEEN MOVIE written all over it. The dialogue from the teenagers is so stereotyped and pathetic beyond belief that it is hard to sit through. Playing "Marry, Fuck, or KIll", talking about "Oh, you need to get laid" and whatnot. The characters were all stererotyped. The girl who had the lost love and the boy as well, the guy everyone thinks is crazy but actually is the one who knows what's up, the father who doesn't understand, the police captain who doesn't believe the truth, the rookie cop who turns into a rebel to help the kids, the stoner, the misunderstood kid, etc. etc. How about writing some realistic teenage characters?

Hate to break it to ya: every Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th film is a teen movie. Seriously, go back and watch them. You'll have the jock, the nerd, the bitch, the sweet innocent girl, etc. That's about as much characterization as you get in these films.

6. A subplot involving Lori's mother's "death" because Freddy killed her? Excuse me, baking powder? Lol. So, was this before Freddy was "forgotten" or after? If it was before, then why would Freddy bother killing mothers and such when he could have just killed Lori and others? And if it was after, then how did he kill her anyhow? Simply because it was only the kids who "forgot" about him? If that's the case, then why not kill Lori's father as well to strike even more fear into Lori and why not kill other parents while you're at that just for the hell of it? Stupid.

It's never explained, but it's possible that Lori's mother was all Freddy could get to, simply because the kids had forgotten him and because of the kids at Westin being drugged up on Hypnocil. Thus why Lori's father covered it all up. The rest is just nitpicking. You can't look too deeply into a slasher film.

7. Will and whatever his friend's name was escaped from the mental place (which was supposed to be the same place from the 3rd Nightmare, LOL!), didn't they escape, I dunno, a little too easy? if it really is THAT easy to escape from such a place so fast, then why sit around waiting for a reason to do so?

Yeah, it was pretty easy for them to escape, but you can't have half the movie showing their escape attempts. They had to move the plot along. Besides, Will had no reason to escape until he knew that Lori was in trouble.

8. They tried to actually show how Jason actually drowned as a kid in Lori's dream at Camp Crystal lake. Look, we've all seen the clips of Jason drowning, no need to give us the full treatement, we know the story. This pisses me off more than anything, just like how they show Freddy being killed as if he lived in a basement and someone threw a cocktail down there to burn him to death, like in Freddy's Dead and in a shot in the monologue. The way Freddy died was that he was in his boiler room when the parents of Elm Street poured gasoline inside and led a trail of it all the way out. They then lit the match, watched it trail into flames and then went in and hid his remians afterwards. I don't like having my intelligence insulted.

It was important to show Jason drowning because it allowed us to see what Jason feared the most. That's when Krueger pops in and almost kills him. It's not intelligence insulting, it's important information: What would Jason Voorhees actually FEAR?

9. They actually tried to pass off Freddy as a "Child Molestor." There are no hinst in other Nightmare movies backing this up at all but no, they have to make him one to make him seem so much more EVIL than he already is. Whatever. Freddy has always been known as a child killer, and seeing him trying to rape Lori was just silly. I suppose this was also supposed to enforce the whole "Jason=Misunderstood, Freddy=Pure evil" since we see Jason actually get turned into a child and we see Freddy pick on him. Just trying to make Jason more "reasonable" and Freddy more evil at the same time but it sucks.

Child murderers and child molesters tend to go hand in hand. And sorry, Freddy being a child molester isn't a greater or lesser evil than being a child murderer. They're both sick and that's the point: Freddy Krueger is a sick man. And again with the Jason is misunderstood thing: no. The only reason Jason turns into a child--in the dream world mind you--is because Freddy finds Jason's one fear that he can use against him.

10. This movie stars Kelly Rowland.

Well, hey, at least she dies. At least she wasn't like Busta Rhymes in Halloween: Resurrection. ;)

11. What's up with the Hong Kong tones? Freddy gets forearmed, he goes flying through the air. Jason lifts a guy's body and tosses it, it goes flying through the air. Freddy goes karate a bit in the final fight as well.

Ronny Yu.

12. Freddy has one kill. One Kill. Freddy has one kill....one. And the dialogue in that scene is horrible, up until Freddy gets out of the tub.

Well...three kills. He kills the little girl in the beginning offscreen. He kills Mark. And we have a flashback of him killing Lori's mom. The movie was about him trying to regain his powers anyway, so the lack of kills is understandable.


13. Could they not have SPOONFEED the plot to us anymore as if we don't already get it?!? Having the characters repeat the basic plot over and over and then as I mentioned above, to have Freddy actually come out and say "That's why I needed Jason to kill for me to get to remember......", almost as if they thought the audience should be writing it down just to keep up.

Thank David Goyer and his rewrite. He pretty much dumbed it down from what Shannon and Swift's original was. Some good things were dropped (unneeded characters) and some not so desirable (like the constant reminder that Freddy used Jason).

14. No balls. Some might argue that it's better to have an ending where both come out looking good but I disgress. One should have won over the other, bottomline. Regardless of what happened to him afterwards, that's the way it shoould have been in my mind. At the premiere, they didn't even show the very end of the movie but left a message saying to wait for the movie to be relased in theaters officially to find out the real winner. Good one.

Jason won, fair and square. He delivered the death blow before Lori chopped Krueger's head off. And who carries Freddy's head out of the lake? Jason.

15. "Welcome to my world, bitch!" Straight from Lori's mouth before she decapitates Freddy. At least they got rid of the "Freddy vs Jason...place your bets!" line.

Wasn't too bad. But yeah, thank God the place your bets line was cut. :)





Fuck this movie.







I LOVE this movie. :D :D :D :D :D

[JackassFan]

I enjoyed Freddy vs Jason. It's nothing special, but definitely not as bad as you're making out.

[parsonz]

i also liked the film it was not at all as bad that u are making things out to be

[outsyder]

Originally posted by ZenDude
F vs. J was worse than Alien vs Predator and thats saying a lot. Neither are worthy to sit among my collection. :D


No way. At least this kind of stays true to the series in that THERE ARE GRUSOME DEATHS, something that was completely lacking from AvP.

[parsonz]

avp was quite pathetic for the deaths that they had

[AWP82]

Originally posted by God of Cinema
9. They actually tried to pass off Freddy as a "Child Molestor." There are no hinst in other Nightmare movies backing this up at all but no, they have to make him one to make him seem so much more EVIL than he already is. Whatever. Freddy has always been known as a child killer, and seeing him trying to rape Lori was just silly.

Finally, someone else agrees with me on this! Ever since the original, people have always called Freddy a child molestor (sometimes, even ignoring the "child MURDERER" part), yet I've seen no evidence at any point in the series to back up that claim. I've studied the movies very closely, and all I can come up with that might VAGUELY support that claim is the fact that most of his victims were still minors (under 18, but not children), and the scene in part 3 when he morphed into a hot nurse to lure teenaged Joey into a kill, or sometimes he'd taunt his victims with raunchy lines/gestures. If that's all people are referring to, I can accept that. Otherwise, I don't see it. Freddy's official backstory has always portrayed him as a child killer who was tried in court, freed on a technicality, and then hunted down by the parents. If he had molested any of those kids, there would've been evidence during the trial and NO ONE would've left that "juicy" part out (certainly not the parents of those "molested" children) when talking about it. Molestation alone would've made headlines, but it didn't. As far as I'm concerned, it's all far-fetched speculation based on those minor possibilities I mentioned above. Even then, you'd have to read between the lines....not a lot, but A WHOLE FUCKING LOT. That's how I see it.

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
Child murderers and child molesters tend to go hand in hand. And sorry, Freddy being a child molester isn't a greater or lesser evil than being a child murderer. They're both sick and that's the point: Freddy Krueger is a sick man.

Your "both go hand in hand" theory might work in the real world, but not the fictional world of those movies unless it was written into the story at some point. It never was (not until the part GOC mentioned in FvJ, so I'll give you that). Yes Freddy is a sick man, and yes both are equally evil, but that doesn't matter. It doesn't magically change the official story of that character. But if you and the majority are comfortable believing Freddy was both, I'll just have to agree to disagree.

For the record, I thought FvJ was okay but nothing to write home about. It had its moments, but for the most part, I was bored. 6/10

[Voodoodoll]

Ideally I'd like to have seen a dark, complex, no holds-barred Freddy Vs Jason but the general public probably wanted something more fun. So, instead what I got was a fun, campy movie, with plenty of pointless bodybag fillers. I enjoyed the movie but can totally understand where you're coming from, if you hate it.

[jaw2929]

This movie was fucking phenomenal... The original guy's points were all too "serious"... This is a fuckin' slasher horror film, not The Godfather... Trying to make sense, and dig deeper into a film of this kind is pointless... There's bound to be things that don't make sense, or don't seem "real", but that's the point! :p

Anyway, I absolutely loved this movie (Along with AVP) and can't wait for the next "VS" movie! :)

[Duke Nukem]

Weakest rant in a long time. But at least we didn't get the usual "And since when is Jason afraid of water??" bit. I'm glad I don't have to explain that one again.

[Badbird]

Okay. Some people take this Freddy and/or Jason stuff way too seriously.

The whole concept of Freddy vs Jason is retarded. Freddy and Jason (and every other slasher character for that matter) get "killed" or stopped somehow... yet there always back for the next assembly line sequel.

But in the end, I found this movie entertaining.

[Kevin Lockard]

Gotta disagree. You can't misunderstand someone who kills about fifty people in a cornfield. Or your boyfriend when he's in bed. Or your best friend while she's sleeping in a cornfield. The only reason the characters helped Jason was because they knew he was the only one who could kill Krueger. And with any luck, they'd kill each other.

No, I was talking about Jason being "misunderstood", as in he doesn't know he is actually committing such evil acts. That was exactly the point. They wanted a Jason with "emotional looking eyes" because they wanted him to be made out as what he is: An unstoppable killing machine who doesn't realize the consequences of his actions, he is just killing any and everyone he finds. Freddy, on the other hand, knows right from wrong but kills anyway because he is just an evil bastard and loves being just that.

The point was that Springwood had rebuilt, had forgotten Krueger. What better way to forget him than to bring the house up to code and have people start living in it again?

Okay, fair enough. :)

Hate to break it to ya: every Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th film is a teen movie. Seriously, go back and watch them. You'll have the jock, the nerd, the bitch, the sweet innocent girl, etc. That's about as much characterization as you get in these films.

Okay, here's a better, reasonable claim: These charcaters just plain sucked. I've always liked every other character for the most part in the other Freddy and Jason films but I couldn't find one single character in this movie I liked other than Freddy.....or Jason.

It's never explained, but it's possible that Lori's mother was all Freddy could get to, simply because the kids had forgotten him and because of the kids at Westin being drugged up on Hypnocil. Thus why Lori's father covered it all up. The rest is just nitpicking. You can't look too deeply into a slasher film.

Okay, so why kill Lori's mother? My point was why would Freddy kill an adult when he's a child killer? If he is gonna kill an adult, why not kill both Lori's mother AND father, and what about killing the rest of the adults? If he can't get to the kids, wouldn't he just kill all the adults? This was probably one of the strongest points of mine because it was obviously that this "subplot" was meant only to have something to connect to our main charcater. I call it sucky writing. It made absolutely no sense and before you say "It doesn't have to!", yeah, I think it does. It doesn't chime with the past Nightmare films in which child killer Freddy only killed adults when he had a solid reason to. He didn't have one here.

Jason won, fair and square. He delivered the death blow before Lori chopped Krueger's head off. And who carries Freddy's head out of the lake? Jason.

You're in the minority if you believe that. Most everyone on forums and in real life that I talk to takes it that they both walked off looking good. And yeah, Freddy ain't nothing but a head at the end, but he did wink and while they was a little in-joke, it was Lori, not Jason, who finished Freddy off. And if you ask me, unless one of them kills the other, then neither of them really wins. I take it at the end that that was in a dream, which even further alludes to Freddy still being alive because this movie made it clear that Freddy cannot "die", he can only be restrained into the dream world. This also explains why Freddy came back in Part 4 the way he did because Kristen kept fearing he would be back over and over again until that fear eventually brought him back.

This movie was fucking phenomenal... The original guy's points were all too "serious"... This is a fuckin' slasher horror film, not The Godfather... Trying to make sense, and dig deeper into a film of this kind is pointless... There's bound to be things that don't make sense, or don't seem "real", but that's the point!

I thought it was great the first few times as well but when I can spot holes that don't go along with what was brought out in earlier movies then I disgress. Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare pissed all over the previous Nightmare films. However, just because Freddy is cracking one-liners and "entertaining" me, should I just sit back and say "Hey, this is so much fun, never mind that it doesn't make sense, this is great!!1!!!11!"

No, and I'm not going to here either.

[EVILxxx]

13. Could they not have SPOONFEED the plot to us anymore as if we don't already get it?!? Having the characters repeat the basic plot over and over and then as I mentioned above, to have Freddy actually come out and say "That's why I needed Jason to kill for me to get to remember......", almost as if they thought the audience should be writing it down just to keep up.

This is my major gripe with the film. I guess the screen writer thought that Freddy using Jason to instill fear into the kids about Freddy to allow him to enter their dreams was such a high brow concept that the typical horror audience needed to have it regurgitated over and over again. I half-expected Freddy to setup a power-point presentation in the middle of the movie and diagram his ingenoius plot.

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by God of Cinema


No, I was talking about Jason being "misunderstood", as in he doesn't know he is actually committing such evil acts. That was exactly the point. They wanted a Jason with "emotional looking eyes" because they wanted him to be made out as what he is: An unstoppable killing machine who doesn't realize the consequences of his actions, he is just killing any and everyone he finds. Freddy, on the other hand, knows right from wrong but kills anyway because he is just an evil bastard and loves being just that.

Huh? The beginning of the movie tells the audience that he kills people to avenge his mother's death, which goes back all the way to the second Friday the 13th. We're never given the impression that Jason doesn't know what he's doing is wrong. They wanted a Jason with emotional looking eyes because they weren't simply gonna have a Kane Hodder "always pissed off" performance, which is good.




Okay, here's a better, reasonable claim: These charcaters just plain sucked. I've always liked every other character for the most part in the other Freddy and Jason films but I couldn't find one single character in this movie I liked other than Freddy.....or Jason.

Man, not even Freeburg? But still, like I said the complaint of the characters being stereotypical falls flat when every single one of these movies has nothing but stereotypical characters.



Okay, so why kill Lori's mother? My point was why would Freddy kill an adult when he's a child killer? If he is gonna kill an adult, why not kill both Lori's mother AND father, and what about killing the rest of the adults? If he can't get to the kids, wouldn't he just kill all the adults? This was probably one of the strongest points of mine because it was obviously that this "subplot" was meant only to have something to connect to our main charcater. I call it sucky writing. It made absolutely no sense and before you say "It doesn't have to!", yeah, I think it does. It doesn't chime with the past Nightmare films in which child killer Freddy only killed adults when he had a solid reason to. He didn't have one here.

You're complaining why would Freddy kill an adult? Why did Freddy kill Mrs. Thompson in the first Nightmare? Why did he kill Donald Thompson and Nancy in Nightmare 3? Why was he trying to kill Maggie in Freddy's Dead?

Because he could. Just because Freddy focuses on children and teenagers doesn't mean he doesn't kill the occasional adult as well. Killing the rest of the adults would solve nothing, and be next to impossible when the entire town is practicing the "Krueger never existed" law. Lori's mother was the exception because she must have remembered him. Lori's father covered it up, and Krueger ceased to exist.

It's not entirely complicated.



You're in the minority if you believe that.

Go to Fridaythe13thfilms.com or Fridaythe13thforum.com. Plenty of people there agree that Jason won. As far as Lori cutting off Krueger's head goes, she simply gave him a quicker death. Being in the real world, Freddy's claw and arm going through his chest was the finisher. Had Lori not cut off his head he would have died a slow and more painful death.

[Kevin Lockard]

Huh? The beginning of the movie tells the audience that he kills people to avenge his mother's death, which goes back all the way to the second Friday the 13th. We're never given the impression that Jason doesn't know what he's doing is wrong. They wanted a Jason with emotional looking eyes because they weren't simply gonna have a Kane Hodder "always pissed off" performance, which is good.

Jason was a mongloid (sp?), he didn't really know much at all, he was mostly retarded. If he did, he wouldn't have tried to swim all the way out there in Crystal Lake despite not knowing how to swim. His mother was the only one he connected himself to emotionally and when he saw his mother killed that night, he started to duplicate that "scene" to everyone he ran into in Crystal Lake...his "home." Sure, he tracked down Alice but that's reasonable. He just wants to do that very thing to everyone in Crystal Lake (one of the reasons he doesn't go out of his way to kill random New Yorkers in Part 8 unless he has to) and because of this, he doesn't really know what "murder" is persay, he doesn't know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil. Freddy does on the other hand, and chooses to do evil because he is simply pure evil.

And if you wanna bring up F13th 2, listen to what Ginny said about the night he saw his mother killed: "He probably didn't even know what death is...at least, not until that night." This can also be backed up when Ginny pretends to be his mother at the end of Part 2, and until Jason sees the head of his mother of 5 years behind her, he is still almost tricked into surrendering. And, of course, this is also the reason he does as he is told in FvJ when Freddy pretends to be his mother. He really doesn't understand that his mother is "dead and gone" persay.

BTW, Ronny Yu and Robert England (and I believe possibly Ken Kirzeniger as well) said that they were looking for an "emotional misunderstood" Jason. What other reason would they have for replacing Kane Hodder, who is recognized as THE Jason, other than that?

You're complaining why would Freddy kill an adult? Why did Freddy kill Mrs. Thompson in the first Nightmare? Why did he kill Donald Thompson and Nancy in Nightmare 3? Why was he trying to kill Maggie in Freddy's Dead?

No, I'm complaining why Freddy would kill an adult in THIS situation. In the original Nightmare, he killed Nancy's mother because he was brought into the real world. And she was one of the parents who killed him, remember? He didn't kill her before because he is out to kill the children of those who burned him and one of the other main reasons is because he can't enter the dreams of the parents. If so, wouldn't he just kill them as well? Yeah. And he killed Nancy because she was an old nemesis who was trying to help stop him again and because she came to HIM into the dream world (not the other way around), he killed Mr. Thompson (and attempted to kill Dr. Gordon) because he knew they were messing with his remains in the real world and was able to inject his spirit into his old body and aim for 'em. In FvJ, there's NO reason for him to kill Lori's mother other than to add a backstory between him and Lori and there's no way he could because he can't enter the dreams of adults.

And I couldn't care less about Part 6 but for the record, Maggie was his daughter and he wanted to kill her and of course, again, she brought him out into the real world.

Because he could. Just because Freddy focuses on children and teenagers doesn't mean he doesn't kill the occasional adult as well. Killing the rest of the adults would solve nothing, and be next to impossible when the entire town is practicing the "Krueger never existed" law. Lori's mother was the exception because she must have remembered him. Lori's father covered it up, and Krueger ceased to exist.

It's not entirely complicated.

Because he could, or because the writers couldn't think of anything better? I bet on the latter. It seems more reasonable. Are you trying to say that Lori's father didn't know of Freddy? How is it at all possible to erase the memory of Freddy from children if none of the parents know? It's because, like I said above, he can't enter into the dreams of adults, only children. I said why would he not kill all parents because it makes no sense to kill Lori's mother only except for the sole purpose of adding some sort of backstory for our main heroine and Freddy. And yeah, for the record, it would be pretty disturbing if suddenly all the parents starting dying but that's beside the main point, I suppose. Personally, it would have been much better if they didn't add any kind of "subplot" like this one. Did we really need for our main heroine to have some sort of connection or motive for "revenge" against Freddy? Was it not enough to just have Freddy use Jason to install fear into the newest batch of Springwood kids who had nothing to do with him so he could simply serve them up as victims all over again? I guess not, though it would have been alot better.

Go to Fridaythe13thfilms.com or Fridaythe13thforum.com. Plenty of people there agree that Jason won. As far as Lori cutting off Krueger's head goes, she simply gave him a quicker death. Being in the real world, Freddy's claw and arm going through his chest was the finisher. Had Lori not cut off his head he would have died a slow and more painful death.

Whaaaatt? That was the main website I was referring to, lol. Most seem to think they walked away looking equal.

[ComeNightfall]

It's a horror movie. Most horror movies are not logical and clearcut. You spend too much time analyzing them, you'll go nuts.

I thought this was a fun timewaster. I laughed more than I jumped. I also thought the flashback scene to Jason's drowning was well-done, especially when the kids put a burlap sack on his head (nice nod to Part II). The rave scene was enjoyable too.

[the_ultimate_evil]

from the way i see it, freddy killed lori's mum cause it was a way at getting at lori's dad, remember lodi's dad was the main docter at the hospital and was the main one behind the dream pills, so cause he couldnt get to the kids he went after someone who did remember him. its basic revenge you want to piss someone off go after there family

[Kevin Lockard]

from the way i see it, freddy killed lori's mum cause it was a way at getting at lori's dad, remember lodi's dad was the main docter at the hospital and was the main one behind the dream pills, so cause he couldnt get to the kids he went after someone who did remember him. its basic revenge you want to piss someone off go after there family

Then why not kill Lori's father first and foremost? That would have sounded like the logical thing to do. Or maybe even both of them. If Freddy is on the verge of extinction, then killing the main guy behind the plan is the thing to do, or like I said (to add insult to injury), both just for the hell of it.

I'm not digging for any holes in this "popcorn horror flick", I am questioning things that were set forth by earlier movies, things that the writers said they were not gonna contradict nor abadon.

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by God of Cinema
[B]

Jason was a mongloid (sp?), he didn't really know much at all, he was mostly retarded. If he did, he wouldn't have tried to swim all the way out there in Crystal Lake despite not knowing how to swim. His mother was the only one he connected himself to emotionally and when he saw his mother killed that night, he started to duplicate that "scene" to everyone he ran into in Crystal Lake...his "home." Sure, he tracked down Alice but that's reasonable. He just wants to do that very thing to everyone in Crystal Lake (one of the reasons he doesn't go out of his way to kill random New Yorkers in Part 8 unless he has to) and because of this, he doesn't really know what "murder" is persay, he doesn't know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil. Freddy does on the other hand, and chooses to do evil because he is simply pure evil.

And if you wanna bring up F13th 2, listen to what Ginny said about the night he saw his mother killed: "He probably didn't even know what death is...at least, not until that night." This can also be backed up when Ginny pretends to be his mother at the end of Part 2, and until Jason sees the head of his mother of 5 years behind her, he is still almost tricked into surrendering. And, of course, this is also the reason he does as he is told in FvJ when Freddy pretends to be his mother. He really doesn't understand that his mother is "dead and gone" persay.

BTW, Ronny Yu and Robert England (and I believe possibly Ken Kirzeniger as well) said that they were looking for an "emotional misunderstood" Jason. What other reason would they have for replacing Kane Hodder, who is recognized as THE Jason, other than that?

But he's STILL killing people. He's not showing any remorse for what he's doing. Just because you think what you're doing is right doesn't make it so. And yes, he's a mongoloid and he was retarded, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know the meaning of death. I mean isn't that why he started killing in the first place? To avenge his mother's death?

And I don't recognize Hodder as THE Jason. While I like his interpretation, there were 5 other people before him who played the part just as well. Hell, I'd say that Ted White had even more enthusiasm in his performance than Hodder. As far as Kirzinger goes, I think he did a great job. And it wasn't that Jason was supposed to be "emotionally misunderstood." He's still a dangerous hateful, being. Jason was merely supposed to be able to express more than rage, which is all Hodder ever expressed in his performance.


No, I'm complaining why Freddy would kill an adult in THIS situation. In the original Nightmare, he killed Nancy's mother because he was brought into the real world. And she was one of the parents who killed him, remember? He didn't kill her before because he is out to kill the children of those who burned him and one of the other main reasons is because he can't enter the dreams of the parents. If so, wouldn't he just kill them as well? Yeah. And he killed Nancy because she was an old nemesis who was trying to help stop him again and because she came to HIM into the dream world (not the other way around), he killed Mr. Thompson (and attempted to kill Dr. Gordon) because he knew they were messing with his remains in the real world and was able to inject his spirit into his old body and aim for 'em. In FvJ, there's NO reason for him to kill Lori's mother other than to add a backstory between him and Lori and there's no way he could because he can't enter the dreams of adults.

"I've always had a thing for the whores that lived in this house."

And having seen all of the movies about 8 million times, there's nothing that says Freddy can only enter the dreams of children/teenagers. Although he focuses on children and teens, he won't shy from entering an adult's dreams, especially if they're the only ones attainable.


Because he could, or because the writers couldn't think of anything better? I bet on the latter. It seems more reasonable. Are you trying to say that Lori's father didn't know of Freddy? How is it at all possible to erase the memory of Freddy from children if none of the parents know? It's because, like I said above, he can't enter into the dreams of adults, only children. I said why would he not kill all parents because it makes no sense to kill Lori's mother only except for the sole purpose of adding some sort of backstory for our main heroine and Freddy. And yeah, for the record, it would be pretty disturbing if suddenly all the parents starting dying but that's beside the main point, I suppose. Personally, it would have been much better if they didn't add any kind of "subplot" like this one. Did we really need for our main heroine to have some sort of connection or motive for "revenge" against Freddy? Was it not enough to just have Freddy use Jason to install fear into the newest batch of Springwood kids who had nothing to do with him so he could simply serve them up as victims all over again? I guess not, though it would have been alot better.

The parents KNOW Freddy exists, it's a matter of recognizing his existence. Freddy may not have been able to get to Lori's father, but he could get to her mother. And, like the quote I put above earlier says: "I've always had a thing for the whores who lived in this house." If Freddy can't get to Lori, then her mother's the next best thing.



Whaaaatt? That was the main website I was referring to, lol. Most seem to think they walked away looking equal.

Blake Washer, the webmaster of the site, actually gives Jason a co-credit of killing Freddy. The only complaint I've read on the site, which I frequent all the time, is that Jason supposedly got his ass kicked (which is funny, because they seemed to want Jason to cut Freddy in half from the get go rather than have the back and forth battle we got).

[Kevin Lockard]

But he's STILL killing people. He's not showing any remorse for what he's doing. Just because you think what you're doing is right doesn't make it so.

EXACTLY!! He doesn't know "right" or "wrong", he saw his mother killed and has been duplicating that scene by inflicting an reenactment on everyone he meets into in Camp Crystal Lake.


And yes, he's a mongoloid and he was retarded, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know the meaning of death. I mean isn't that why he started killing in the first place? To avenge his mother's death?/

If he knew the meaning of death, then why would he fall for Genny's trick as posing as his mother at the end of Part 2? I mean, he's had her head in that cabin for 5 years and then he falls for Genny posing as his mother until he sees her head again. Plus, if he knows his mother is dead, why fall for Freddy's trick posing as his mother? If he knew the meaning of death, he'd know his mother was long dead and gone and in no way can come back.

[I]"I've always had a thing for the whores that lived in this house."

That was simply a line that was a reference to Nancy and her mother. Moreso Nancy, her being the recognized main heroine of the series. No other "whore" in that house ever encountered Freddy.

[I]And having seen all of the movies about 8 million times, there's nothing that says Freddy can only enter the dreams of children/teenagers. Although he focuses on children and teens, he won't shy from entering an adult's dreams, especially if they're the only ones attainable.

Well, the whole premise is that he was a child killer, the parents of Elm Streets came together and burned him to death, and he was resurrected into dreams to kill all the children of the parents that burned him. At that point (until Part 4 as a matter of fact) he could only enter the dreams of the Elm Street kids due to their parent's evil deeds. There is nothing to suggest he is allowed to enter the dreams of parents or we would have killed the Elm Street parents themselves as well, or in our present case, Lori's dad. The last line you wrote doesn't make much sense because quite frankly, it is somehting that was made up in FvJ by the writers, which is why I hate it. Did we really need to have a backstory for Lori and Freddy?

And I don't recognize Hodder as THE Jason. While I like his interpretation, there were 5 other people before him who played the part just as well. Hell, I'd say that Ted White had even more enthusiasm in his performance than Hodder. As far as Kirzinger goes, I think he did a great job. And it wasn't that Jason was supposed to be "emotionally misunderstood." He's still a dangerous hateful, being. Jason was merely supposed to be able to express more than rage, which is all Hodder ever expressed in his performance.

Well, the "emotionally misunderstood" thing came out of Ronny Yu and com.'s mouths as to why the filmmakers were looking for a new Jason. I don't think Kirzenger did a bad job at all, I'm merely saying there was no reason to replace him. Why replace Hodder for a new Jason when you've got a guy who like Hodder who is not only perfect at playing him but would do so over and over again (unlike Ted White, who whined and cried in real life about having to play him.) Jason didn't express any more emotion in FvJ than he ever did before. The fact is, Hodder and England were asked repeatively about FvJ, even had a pic in Fangoria with Hodder choking England with a note saying "This might be as close as you ever get to seeing Freddy vs Jason." The majority of people recognize Hodder as Jason and still do. It seemed completely unnecessary to replace him. That just irritates me.

The parents KNOW Freddy exists, it's a matter of recognizing his existence. Freddy may not have been able to get to Lori's father, but he could get to her mother. And, like the quote I put above earlier says: "I've always had a thing for the whores who lived in this house." If Freddy can't get to Lori, then her mother's the next best thing.

Yes, that's my point. The parents have to know Freddy exists but yet, when the children cease to know of him, he is powerless. Why? Because he can only get into the children's dreams, not the parents!

Blake Washer, the webmaster of the site, actually gives Jason a co-credit of killing Freddy. The only complaint I've read on the site, which I frequent all the time, is that Jason supposedly got his ass kicked (which is funny, because they seemed to want Jason to cut Freddy in half from the get go rather than have the back and forth battle we got).

He might of, but reading that forum, it seems most believe they were equal. The filmmakers seem to recognize this as well.

[Tom4558]

Although Freddy v. Jason isn't the first movie that comes to mind when I think of a good movie, it's still enjoyable to watch. Yes, some of the dialogue was cliche and dull, but some was great. This line made the movie for me.


Lori (to camp counselor): Why aren't you coming?
[counselor turns into Freddy]
Freddy: It's not my fault this bitch is dead on her feet.

[parsonz]

i also like that part on the film