Cosmo Kramer, a racist?!?

[screamer581]

"Kramer's" Racist Tirade -- Caught on Tape
Posted Nov 20th 2006 8:30AM by TMZ Staff
Filed under: Train Wrecks

WARNING: WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE IS PROFANE AND RACIAL

Michael Richards exploded in anger as he performed at a famous L.A. comedy club last Friday, hurling racial epithets that left the crowd gasping, and TMZ has obtained exclusive video of the ugly incident.

Richards, who played the wacky Cosmo Kramer on the hit TV show "Seinfeld," appeared onstage at the Laugh Factory in West Hollywood. It appears two guys, both African-American, were in the cheap seats playfully heckling Richards when suddenly, the comedian lost it.

The camera started rolling just as Richards began his attack, screaming at one of the men, "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f***ing fork up your ass."

Richards continued, "You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherf**ker. Throw his ass out. He's a nigger! He's a nigger! He's a nigger! A nigger, look, there's a nigger!"

The crowd is visibly and audibly confused and upset. Richards responds by saying, "They're going to arrest me for calling a black man a nigger."

One of the men who was the object of Richard's tirade was outraged, shouting back "That's un-f***ing called for, ain't necessary."

After the three-minute tirade, it appears the majority of the audience members got up and left in disgust.

Attempts to reach Richards' reps were unsuccessful.



Here's the video. http://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp?mode=1&pmmsid=1772645



All I can say is, wow.




Here is a CNN video about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEcz9T3MuL4

[jackson13]

Why cant there ever be a video clip uploaded online that I can fucking watch? Every time something like this happens, I click on a link to watch it, and I cant. It told me I needed to install the proper plugin, so I installed it. Then it told me it still wouldnt play because I needed to install something else. This is bullshit.

I'm searching youtube.

[echo_bravo]

:eek:

Holy shit

[jackson13]

Alright, I got to see it.

True, he went to far, throwing 'nigger' around, and the tree comment, but honestly, I cant blame him. If someone was heckling me like they were with him, I would've told them to shut the fuck up as well. I fucking hate people like that. Just because they arent enjoying it they have to ruin it for everyone else by being annoying assholes. Michael had every right to lash out at them like he did, he just should've done it without being a racist.

And also, anyone else see the irony in that video? He calls them niggers, then when they are leaving, they starting yelling at him "cracker ass white boy" and stuff like that?

Yeah, Pot? Hey, this is Kettle. Did you know you're black?

[jackson13]

I also found this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEcz9T3MuL4



Just for the record, a racist Michael Richards is still funnier than Paul Rodriguez. Maybe everyone was getting up to leave at the end of Richards rant not because they were offended but because they knew Paul Rodriguez was coming on next. I would've done the same.

[Cottonmouth]

Oh my God. I'm genuinely surprised; can't even pretend to be cynical about this. Fucking wow...

[echo_bravo]

Originally posted by jackson13
And also, anyone else see the irony in that video? He calls them niggers, then when they are leaving, they starting yelling at him "cracker ass white boy" and stuff like that?

Yeah, Pot? Hey, this is Kettle. Did you know you're black?

LOL
Yeah I noticed that too.

[JJFlamingo]

Well, bye Kramer. Twas a great career, huh? :D

[bob]

Yeah, but I don't blame the guys in the audience. They were attacked racially out of nowhere by Richards. If you're punched, you punch back, and I think there's far less blame on you than the guy who punched you.

Racial comments were so unnecessary in that situation it's ridiculous, that really disillusions me about Richards.

[The Heart Collector]

What a fucking piece of shit. He is dead to me.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
What a fucking piece of shit. He is dead to me.


At this point it seems like he doesnt care.

This was a shock to me. I never pictured him for a racist. Maybe he can blame it on alcohol like Mel Gibson and everything will be ok.

[RustyRazor]

Un-fucking believable.
If you're getting heckled, flip it back on the heckler or just curse 'em out.
Lower your head, dude.

[TheMazVolta]

Yikes...talk about left field

[jolanar]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
What a fucking piece of shit. He is dead to me.

Did you honestly know or care about his post Sienfeld career in the first place?

He definately shouldn't have used the N word, people are WAY too sensitive about that. I can certainly understand his anger against obnoxious hecklers though.

[Scarfather]

Holy shit.

[someguy]

Okay we can give him the award of worst job of handling hecklers

[echo_bravo]

Mel Gibson eat your heart out.

But seriously, if you are wanting to verbally attack the heckle,r make fun of their peanis size, their mothers, their boyfriends, or something...why even resort to that?

[Lynn7]

He's done for now. He must be rich though, right? I wasn't a Seinfeld show fan and I never got into Kramer but this seems shocking. I don't know anything about him as a person though. What is his background? Anyone know?

Next step rehab..... or therapy for his nervous breakdown.

Oh, one more thing- hecklers should ALWAYS be thrown out. They ruin shows for everyone else who paid.

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by jolanar
Did you honestly know or care about his post Sienfeld career in the first place?

He definately shouldn't have used the N word, people are WAY too sensitive about that. I can certainly understand his anger against obnoxious hecklers though.

HEY I WATCHED THE MICHAEL RICHARDS SHOW OK

[jeo4]

http://www.sportsonline.com.au/images/Products/7232.bmp

[snootch2nootch]

Go Kramer! :cool:

[Cunning Visions]

http://www.siyumhaseinfeld.com/images/chars/jackie.jpg

"This is outrageous! A tragedy of monumentous proportions!"

[daddiefatsacks]

i dont think he should have went THAT far...but he has a right to fight back, id be pissed if people were talking during my performance, not only talking but doggin it

although i did laugh when he said "its uncalled for, for you interrupt me while im talking you cheap motherfuckerrrr!"

even the crowds laughing for the most part, until he starts dropping the n-bomb like its going out of style

[ComeNightfall]

This is really surprising. I knew he was more intense in real life then his Kramer character, but to out of the blue make racist comments like that is a shocker. Even if these guys were heckling him, he went too far by dropping the n-word. And those guys shouldn't have called him names either. You get respect by giving it.

[SkyNet]

maybe Richards did take it too far... BUT he was being heckled and that is bullshit... fuck them ppl.. they deserved ot be called what they were called.

As far as im concerned.. if Black people can get on stage and say "well white people are like "You niggers go something something" " then why cant white people say it.. and its bs anyone that argues that because how are we supposed to live in a world without racism when there are certain words only blacks cann say??

Also... white pl are called crackers all the time.. but thats not offensive?? Thats BS... black ppl can throw around CRACKER but we say Nigger, and it is a huge shit storm

ALSO.. i watched that CNN video clip.. that dude Michael Pitt.. is a piece of fucking shit in my opinion. for 1) half the shit he said that michael richards said.. Richards DID NOT SAY... he said that the crowd was silent.. well if u watch the video the crowd doesnt go silent once. He just wanted his TV time.. what a piece of shit ass raper.

[MadsenOMC]

I'm not completely familiar with the stand-up comedy scene, but isn't it fairly common for people to get heckled while performing, even if they are well-known?

They deserved to be called nigger repeatedly? That is ridiculous. Maybe they shouldn't have said cracker, but they said it in anger after being repeatedly called nigger. Do you understand the history of that word? If so, how can you say that they deserved to be called that? How does one judge what type of behavior warrants being called nigger?

[Tagia_Romero]

Wow.

That's... all I can say.

[Badbird]

Maybe I'm just some dumb jerk, but I really didn't find what he did offensive. Outragous, yes, but offensive?

Look, I find a family of morbidly obese fat asses stuffing their faces, and their children's faces, at an all you can eat buffet offensive. Cosmo Kramer making a specific attack on two guys heckling him just doesn't phase me. It's not like he was saying "All these niggas are cheap mutha-fuckas!" He was calling out these two assholes specifically.

Did he go overboard? He was certainly angry, and yes, he is a very intense guy who takes is work very, very seriously - even if his work is to make people laugh.

[MadsenOMC]

Considering the history of this country, I think the "50 years ago we would have..............." comment is pretty damn offensive.

[someguy]

Originally posted by SkyNet
maybe Richards did take it too far... BUT he was being heckled and that is bullshit... fuck them ppl.. they deserved ot be called what they were called.

No they don't. Cunts, assholes, shitheads, whatever is fine since they're just words we throw around. Using nigger is over the line and a personal insult to many people.

As far as im concerned.. if Black people can get on stage and say "well white people are like "You niggers go something something" " then why cant white people say it.. and its bs anyone that argues that because how are we supposed to live in a world without racism when there are certain words only blacks cann say??

Newsflash: White comedians say nigger on stage. You're assuming that Richards casually said the word or something which he didn't whatsoever.

Also... white pl are called crackers all the time.. but thats not offensive?? Thats BS... black ppl can throw around CRACKER but we say Nigger, and it is a huge shit storm

Good work on disregarding the entire history of prejudice and oppression black people have gone through over hundreds of years based on their skin colour because of a double standard on a word.

Right now I'm going on my own judgment based on the video from the club. Comedians get heckled a lot, it's a fact and Richards handled it like a retard. I thought he might have been joking and just trying to be as vicious to the guy as he could but it's not even funny. A good example of how to heckle is Bill Hicks on his CD where he gets heckled like crazy (think it's called I'm Sorry Folks).

To sum it up, the heckler was being an asshole and then Richards ended up being the bigger asshole from his way of handling it.

[Sir.Lancelot]

Wow...my wife is North African (not really black) but I still hate the 'n' word nonetheless; you'd think an experienced comedian like Richards could handle people like this without going all Mel Gibson but apparently I am wrong. Plus, Richards is a jew...so the term cracker wouldn't really work on him.

[notchreturns]

Seemed to me he was just really frustrated and resorted to fighting back, which he should have done, he just picked the wrong material. I really doubt he's a racist or think black's should be hanged. Just a dumb move on his part.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by TheMazVolta
Yikes...talk about left field That's my first and strongest reaction to this. I had absolutely no indication that he would act like this or that he had this kind of bile inside of him. The most eloquent statement was the guy yelling at him in the video that it was uncalled for. People were just streaming out. Surreal.

Incidentally, anybody who thinks "cracker" equals "nigger" should take a refresher course in American history. That's like comparing a spitball to a .45 slug.

[JJFlamingo]

So, anyone wanna take bets on if he's gonna kill himself by the end of the week?? :D

[bob]

I find it amazing that people have actually posted that the hecklers "deserved" what Richards did. That is more stunning than anything in the video.

[someguy]

bob, we had mel gibson supporters after his anti-semitic remarks i'm really not surprised about this

Basically anyone who tries to make Richards look like the better man in the scenario needs to re-evaluate a lot of things. A LOT.

[cletus66]

After seeing the clip I can say Richards could not have handled the situation much worse. From what I saw it looked like he just snapped and when a person snaps like that they have pretty shitty judgement. I am not ready to throw him under the bus yet though. I would like to see how he handles the situation and I hope he offers a sincere apology to the heckler and those in attendance who had to witness that unfortuante incident.

[SkyNet]

Michael ARichards is on David Letterman right now... and he is TORE UP about it. So good for him.

To the people who think me supporting richards is ludacris... i RESPECT your opinions.. just dont agree with them. If i was trying to work and people wouldnt let me work... i would go off on anyone and everyone that did that o me... you know what i think people forget is... when shit like this happens... calling black people Nigger, it isnt out of heartfelt hatred.. it is that person thinking to themselves "what can i say that will piss this mother fucker off the most" and to black people.. it is the n word.

Just like calling a fat person a fat ass with maliciousness behind it is hurtful, as is that word to black people (my opinion)

as ti the person who pointed out that white people say nigger all the time in their routines... touche! I shall eat my words on that one!

Ifg they throw this David Letterman thing up on You Tube... you all should watch it.. it was truy heartfelt and apologetic and sincere i think

[Mentiroso]

Yea after watching it some more it is still a shame. I do feel sorry for him and I can understand just snapping. Although never snapping and calling someone a "nigger", I have said some repugnant stuff that I wish I had not. Maybe worse than what he said. Racist or not though, it is his right to say what he wants when he wants. Groups like the KKK, Black Panthers, Neo Nazi groups, and even the NAACP (at times) are racist but still allowed to operate because that is what America is about. Of course you may or may not like Richards any more because of what he said but if a man (any man) apologizes and truly means it then you too should forgive him. If you don't you are not much better than he was at his low time.

Just my opinion.

[daddiefatsacks]

Originally posted by bob
I find it amazing that people have actually posted that the hecklers "deserved" what Richards did. That is more stunning than anything in the video.

i dont think anyone said that they deserved it, i think Richards has a right to defend himself, he just chose the wrong way to do that...probably the worst way haha

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by someguy




Good work on disregarding the entire history of prejudice and oppression black people have gone through over hundreds of years based on their skin colour because of a double standard on a word.



Racism is racism is racism. The word nigger is no more racist than cracker or "white boy." Just because African Americans have suffered and do suffer prejuidice from ignorant people doesn't mean it's suddenly okay to dish out white racial slurs. Two wrongs don't make a right.

That said, Richards obviously was way out of line, as were the party that were heckling him in the first place.

[daddiefatsacks]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
I'm not completely familiar with the stand-up comedy scene, but isn't it fairly common for people to get heckled while performing, even if they are well-known?



i do stand up amatuerly at bars, small clubs etc and its usually a general rule of the audience member to not interrupt, or heckle the comedian during a performance. I have seen joe nobody to Dave Chappelle live, and usually if someone does heckle, the comedian has a retort ready, but it very rarely happens. In this instance, Richards retort was NOT the right way to handle the situation.

These people were probably ignorant, and didn't even know much about Richards other than he was in Seinfeld, and probably didn't care much for him, hence the reason they were talking through the show, its very rude, what is the real point of heckling a comedian? They have the balls to stand up there in front of people doing something they enjoy and work hard at, they don't deserve to be heckled.

[jolanar]

Originally posted by SkyNet
Michael ARichards is on David Letterman right now... and he is TORE UP about it. So good for him.

Ifg they throw this David Letterman thing up on You Tube... you all should watch it.. it was truy heartfelt and apologetic and sincere i think

If anyone finds this online, let me know. I would love to watch it.

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by jolanar
If anyone finds this online, let me know. I would love to watch it.

Here ya go:

http://vidclick.blogspot.com/2006/11/seinfeld-star-apologizes-for-outburst.html

[thedudeman69]

wow. That was...scary.

[BorderEevilIII]

Well everyone should know that unless ya are youre allowed to blurt out the "N" word in your routine, addressing the crowd, whatever.......
The way Richards just goes off was tasteless IMO....
IF the crowd was ripping into his routine it looks like he needs to revamp his material. And like the guy that was sayin from the audience, the only thing that you were good for was SEINFELD and that was it.

WORD UP!

btw, doin a stunt like that gets ya "ZERO" on future bookings if ya wanna keep afloat any shred of....... NO WAIT

IT sunk to the bottom..... LONG AGO

[arto_j]

All I can say to that is...whoa. I never saw anything like this coming from this man at all.

Holy shit, dude, that was just bizarre.

[MadsenOMC]

Do we know what exactly those guys said to Richards? He keeps saying how he was heckled, but has he ever actually said what they were saying to him? I for one can't help but be curious.

I talked to a friend who has done stand-up. He said that it is par for the course for people on stage performing to be heckled. Of course it is usually stupid people doing it, but it happens frequently. I would have thought that Richards would be better prepared to handle a situation like that. Again, I'd like to know how he was being heckled.

I watched Letterman last night. He seemed like a deer in headlights, really out of it. It was weird.

[MadsenOMC]

Also, some of you are saying that he apologized and that's good enough and the rest of us need to accept it and forgive him. Not doing so is too harsh and unfair and whatever. I think there is a flip-side to that coin. I think some are too easy to brush it off and act like it was no big deal.

[Shockwave]

..its not that he defended himself, its what he said. That wasnt defense.

..however on a personal note, i hear blacks calling rach other "nigger" all the time around where i live. Its not the word but the intent behind it.


By using the rant he did, he attacked pretty much the whole audiance. Im surprised that getting up and leaving is all they did.

I think some are too easy to brush it off and act like it was no big deal.

..what the saying "forgive but dont forget?"

..and this wont be forgetten for a looong time.

[RustyRazor]

I think something is really wrong with him, mentally unbalanced wise.
If you saw him on Letterman last night, you know what I mean.
He needs to seek some help and I hope he gets it.

[MadsenOMC]

True RustyRazor. There is a lot of hate and anger in that video, which is alarming and why I can't just accept his apology and act like it was no big deal. He does seem to need serious help.

[Cottonmouth]

Originally posted by bob
I find it amazing that people have actually posted that the hecklers "deserved" what Richards did. That is more stunning than anything in the video.

Exactly.

[bourahioro]

Most comedians are witty....and that's how most comedians take up that profession... there was nothing witty about what Richards did. Michael Richards, no matter how pissed off he was, should have realized that he is a well known celebrity (even if he's not doing much now, he's instantly recognizable), and should have conducted himself in a manner that wouldn't get his ass on CNN. I like to think I live in the now, and I'd also like to think that no matter what we are used to, or whatever words are used by celebs in stand up, movies, etc, etc..that people are better than that, don't get me wrong, the word cracker, is bad, but you can call a guy a cracker, and he might not know what you're talking about, you drop the N-Bomb, and you're gonna get your teeth kicked in. Michael Richards is very lucky those guys didn't jump onstage, and beat his racist face in. Though he ended his career, I guess that's a plus, since he wasn't very funny in the first place.


After seeing the apology video: OF COURSE HE'S GONNA APOLOGIZE, AND ACT UPSET! HE THREW HIS CAREER IN THE TOILET ONSTAGE, AND IT MADE CNN!

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
Racism is racism is racism. The word nigger is no more racist than cracker or "white boy." Just because African Americans have suffered and do suffer prejuidice from ignorant people doesn't mean it's suddenly okay to dish out white racial slurs. Two wrongs don't make a right.

That said, Richards obviously was way out of line, as were the party that were heckling him in the first place.

Uh, yes, in fact, the word 'nigger' is more racist than 'cracker'.

[BorderEevilIII]

http://www.sonypictures.com/tv/shows/seinfeld/assets/thecast_biopict_jerry.gif

Jerry Seinfeld must be goin "tsk tsk" this....

[Cottonmouth]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
Racism is racism is racism. The word nigger is no more racist than cracker or "white boy." Just because African Americans have suffered and do suffer prejuidice from ignorant people doesn't mean it's suddenly okay to dish out white racial slurs.

You should look up the word "racism". I think you, as well as others, have a distorted definition.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Uh, yes, in fact, the word 'nigger' is more racist than 'cracker'.


How can one word be MORE racist than another? That does not make sense. Both words are just as bad if you ask me.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Also, some of you are saying that he apologized and that's good enough and the rest of us need to accept it and forgive him. Not doing so is too harsh and unfair and whatever. I think there is a flip-side to that coin. I think some are too easy to brush it off and act like it was no big deal.


I personally never said it was not a big deal because it is a big deal. I am also not just brushing it off. The man apologized. What else would you have him do? He did not murder anyone, he did not steal anything. He used a word, a word that a large portion of the black community uses on each other on a daily basis. Would you have him apologize and donate money to a certain charity? Go to jail for using the word? How about a nice public execution? Now obviously I am being sarcastic but I dont understand what else some of you expect him to do to make up for using a simple word. An apology on a live television show that millions watch is good enough for me, and maybe a personal apology to the fan that he insulted too.

So what is it going to take for you to forgive him and let it go?

[MadsenOMC]

Cracker is just as bad as nigger?! Seriously? Is the history of the word cracker the same as the history of the word nigger? Were white people enslaved and called crackers for hundreds of years? I think some people need a serious history lesson.

Also, the AP reported that Richards was responding to two men who stated that he wasn't funny. If that is how a comedian reacts to someone telling him that he isn't funny, said comedian has some serious issues.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
How can one word be MORE racist than another? That does not make sense. Both words are just as bad if you ask me.


I totally agree.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
I personally never said it was not a big deal because it is a big deal. I am also not just brushing it off. The man apologized. What else would you have him do? He did not murder anyone, he did not steal anything. He used a word, a word that a large portion of the black community uses on each other on a daily basis. Would you have him apologize and donate money to a certain charity? Go to jail for using the word? How about a nice public execution? Now obviously I am being sarcastic but I dont understand what else some of you expect him to do to make up for using a simple word. An apology on a live television show that millions watch is good enough for me, and maybe a personal apology to the fan that he insulted too.

So what is it going to take for you to forgive him and let it go?

Honestly, I am serious bothered by his comment about how "50 years ago we would have stuck a fork up your ass," or something along those lines. I forget the exact words used. We all know what was going on in this country 50 years ago and what specifically Richards was referring to. Apparently he is fond of the good ol' days when we lynched black people. That is messed up.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
I totally agree.

Have you guys ever had a history class? You truly believe that the word cracker is just as bad as nigger?! I can't believe anyone would think that.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Have you guys ever had a history class? You truly believe that the word cracker is just as bad as nigger?! I can't believe anyone would think that.



Yes I have taken several history classes, including two African American history classes. Insulting someones race by using a word, any word, is equally bad. Cracker has always been insulting to me. It is a very racist thing to say to a white person. You say nigger is worse. Well how about coon? Porch monkey? Jigaboo? I mean do I get to call a black person by a racist word and it be ok like you think cracker is ok for a white person?

[MadsenOMC]

Please tell me when I said that it was OK for someone to call a white person a cracker. I don't recall saying that. There is no way in hell that cracker is just as bad as nigger. White people were not enslaved for hundreds of years while being called crackers. We were not hung from trees while having cracker shouted at us. There is history behind both words and the history is vastly different. Those words are not one and the same.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Those words are not one and the same.



A word is just a word. If it is racist it is racist. Yeah one word has more history than the other, big deal. Cracker has the same tone when shouted at a white man that nigger has when shouted at a black man. It is used to insult a race, plain and simple.

And I apologize, you did not say it was ok to say cracker, and I didnt mean to seem as if you did. You just said cracker is not as bad. I just wanted to know which racial insult was not as bad for black people.

[BorderEevilIII]

Saying something derogative to someone within our same race or class is fine.

If you call someone out, make a comment and you are not the same race, color or creed automatically makes you a baaaaaaad baaaaaad person.



The obvious slang words is always going to be there whetere we like it or not cause WE created it.

[MadsenOMC]

So everything is black and white, cut and dried? No matter what the word is, if there is a racial insult behind it, they are all the same? I don't believe that. That is not true. Cracker and nigger have vastly different histories behind them and they are not one and the same. How often has cracker been shouted at a white man to express hatred and anger and disgust and contempt? I can't believe I even have to argue this. It's laughable to think that those words are equal.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
I can't believe I even have to argue this


You still have not given me an answer though. If you do not have one do not argue your point. I do understand where you are coming from. Many people think nigger is just the worst word in the english language. I just think any term used to insult race is equally bad. One insult has been around longer than the other, well ok but that doesnt make it worse or better than a new word to insult a race. This is my opinion.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Have you guys ever had a history class? You truly believe that the word cracker is just as bad as nigger?! I can't believe anyone would think that.

Uh. yeah, I have taken history classes.. That is sort've a assholish statement to make towards us implying that we don't know the struggles of the black people. I indeed understand the struggles that the black people face in terms of society, also the history classes that I was in showed me how Slavery had a profound effect on race. Also, when we were doing civil rights movements with MLK Jr. and Malcolm X, I supported parts of their idelogy and their theories and I have read all of their speeches. Also, when you say that we haven't been in a history class, that subtly implies that we are idiots and that you think we are idiots when we are in fact not, when the term Cracker is thrown around like it means nothing but when a white person says the n-word, everyone gets all uppity and scolds them for saying it. I am one of those people. People shouldn't be saying these words, period.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
So everything is black and white, cut and dried? No matter what the word is, if there is a racial insult behind it, they are all the same? I don't believe that. That is not true. Cracker and nigger have vastly different histories behind them and they are not one and the same. How often has cracker been shouted at a white man to express hatred and anger and disgust and contempt? I can't believe I even have to argue this. It's laughable to think that those words are equal.


so what if they have different histories of usage? they are still bad racist terms used by BOTH races in ways to make the other one angry.

[MadsenOMC]

I don't hear the word cracker used very often. Hardly ever. It just doesn't have the same meaning behind it. We're going to have to agree to disagree because we're going in circles here. I simply don't understand how anyone could seriously compare cracker to nigger. Not when you take into account the history of the latter word in this country. But you guys apparently think they are one and the same. Fine. Agree to disagree.

[Thrizzle]

lol. When Dave Chappelle (or any black comedian) uses the word Cracker on stage, does the audience walk out? Does anyone in the audience get offeneded? Or even raise an eyebrow for that matter....?

Now imagine ANY white comedian thats not on stage in the south use the N word (i wont even type it mind you). Yea, there would be different reactions.

You can't tell me theyre the same word, or even that cracker is rascist. Crackers, especially those of the salteen variety, are delicious and therefor i take no offense.

[MadsenOMC]

What I am trying to get at:

Kevin Cato
Nigger: Language, History, and Modern Day Discourse

As a black American male, the word nigger conjures up within me hate, hostility, violence, oppression, and a very shameful and unfortunate part of American History. The word symbolizes the everlasting chains of a people plagued with hate and bondage simply because of skin color. For many black people, including myself, nigger is the most pejorative word in the English language. Even when compared to racial slurs like kike, honkey, cracker, wet back, spic, jungle bunny, pod, tarbaby, and white trash, nigger is noted as the worst insult in the English language. The word nigger suggests that black people are second class citizens, ignorant and less than human.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
lol. When Dave Chappelle (or any black comedian) uses the word Cracker on stage, does the audience walk out? Does anyone in the audience get offeneded? Or even raise an eyebrow for that matter....?



That is because Dave Chappelle uses it in a humorous manner and doesn't go on a hate spewing rant like Micheal Richards did.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
What I am trying to get at:

Kevin Cato
Nigger: Language, History, and Modern Day Discourse

As a black American male,



Well here is what I am trying to get at

John Dorough
Cracker: Not just for soup

As a white male I find cracker to be just as offensive as nigger is to a black person.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
Well here is what I am trying to get at

John Dorough
Cracker: Not just for soup

As a white male I find cracker to be just as offensive as nigger is to a black person.

Did you even read what that guy said?

Why is cracker so offensive to you? Was it used to keep your ancestors down?

[MadsenOMC]

Another good article that discusses what I'm talking about:

Honky Wanna Cracker?
June 24, 2002
Honky Wanna Cracker?
A Look at the Myth of Reverse Racism

By Tim Wise

Recently, when speaking to a group of high school students, I was asked why I only seemed to be concerned about white racism towards people of color. We had been discussing racial slurs, and a number of white students wondered why I didn’t get as upset about blacks using terms like “honky” or “cracker,” as I did about whites using words like “nigger.”

Although such an issue may seem trivial in the larger scheme of things—especially given the more significant discussions about racism in the educational system that I had hoped to engage in that day—the challenge posed by the students was actually an important one. In fact, it allowed a discussion about the very essence of what racism is and how it operates.

On the one hand, of course, such slurs are quite obviously inappropriate and offensive, and ought not to be used. That said, I pointed out that even the mention of the words “honky” and “cracker” had elicited laughter; and not only from the black students in attendance, but also from other whites.

The words are so silly, so juvenile, so utterly pathetic that they hardly qualify as racial slurs at all, let alone slurs on a par with those that have been historically deployed against people of color.

The lack of symmetry between a word like honky and a slur such as “nigger” was made apparent in an old Saturday Night Live skit, with Chevy Chase and guest, Richard Pryor.

In the skit, Chase and Pryor face one another and trade off racial epithets during a segment of Weekend Update. Chase calls Pryor a “porch monkey.” Pryor responds with “honky.” Chase ups the ante with “jungle bunny.” Pryor, unable to counter with a more vicious slur against whites, responds with “honky, honky.” Chase then trumps all previous slurs with “nigger,” to which Pryor responds: “dead honky.”

The line elicits laughs all around, but also makes clear, at least implicitly that when it comes to racial antilocution, people of color are limited in the repertoire of slurs they can use against whites, and even the ones of which they can avail themselves sound more comic than hateful. The impact of hearing the antiblack slurs in the skit was of a magnitude unparalleled by hearing Pryor say “honky” over and over again.

As a white person I always saw terms like honky or cracker as evidence of how much more potent white racism was than any variation on the theme practiced by the black or brown.

When a group of people has little or no power over you institutionally, they don’t get to define the terms of your existence, they can’t limit your opportunities, and you needn’t worry much about the use of a slur to describe you and yours, since, in all likelihood, the slur is as far as it’s going to go. What are they going to do next: deny you a bank loan? Yeah, right.

So whereas “nigger” was and is a term used by whites to dehumanize blacks, to imply their inferiority, to “put them in their place” if you will, the same cannot be said of honky: after all, you can’t put white people in their place when they own the place to begin with.

Power is like body armor. And while not all white folks have the same degree of power, there is a very real extent to which all of us have more than we need vis-à-vis people of color: at least when it comes to racial position, privilege and perceptions.

Consider poor whites. To be sure, they are less financially powerful than wealthy people of color. But that misses the point of how racial privilege operates within a class system.

Within a class system, people tend to compete for “stuff” against others of their same basic economic status. In other words, rich and poor are not competing for the same homes, bank loans, jobs, or even educations to a large extent. Rich competes against rich, working class against working class and poor against poor. And in those competitions racial privilege most certainly attaches.

Poor whites are rarely typified as pathological, dangerous, lazy or shiftless the way poor blacks are, for example. Nor are they demonized the way poor Latino/a immigrants tend to be.

When politicians want to scapegoat welfare recipients they don’t pick Bubba and Crystal from some Appalachian trailer park; they choose Shawonda Jefferson from the Robert Taylor Homes, with her seven children.

And according to reports from a number of states, ever since so-called welfare reform, white recipients have been treated far better by caseworkers, are less likely to be bumped off the rolls for presumed failure to comply with new regulations, and have been given far more assistance at finding new jobs than their black or brown counterparts.

Poor whites are more likely to have a job, tend to earn more than poor people of color, and are even more likely to own their own home. Indeed, whites with incomes under $13,000 annually are more likely to own their own home than blacks with incomes that are three times higher due to having inherited property.

None of this is to say that poor whites aren’t being screwed eight ways to Sunday by an economic system that relies on their immiseration: they are. But they nonetheless retain a certain “one-up” on equally poor or even somewhat better off people of color thanks to racism.

It is that one-up that renders the potency of certain prejudices less threatening than others. It is what makes cracker or honky less problematic than any of the slurs used so commonly against the black and brown.

In response to all this, skeptics might say that people of color can indeed exercise power over whites, at least by way of racially-motivated violence. Such was the case, for example, this week in New York City where a black man shot two whites and one Asian-Pacific Islander before being overpowered. Apparently he announced that he wanted to kill white people, and had hoped to set a wine bar on fire to bring such a goal to fruition.

There is no doubt his act was one of racial bigotry, and that to those he was attempting to murder his power must have seemed quite real. Yet there are problems with claiming that this “power” proves racism from people of color is just as bad as the reverse.

First, racial violence is also a power whites have, so the power that might obtain in such a situation is hardly unique to non-whites, unlike the power to deny a bank loan for racial reasons, to "steer" certain homebuyers away from living in “nicer" neighborhoods, or to racially profile in terms of policing. Those are powers that can only be exercised by the more dominant group as a practical and systemic matter.

Additionally, the "power" of violence is not really power at all, since to exercise it, one has to break the law and subject themselves to probable legal sanction.

Power is much more potent when it can be deployed without having to break the law to do it, or when doing it would only risk a small civil penalty at worst. So discrimination in lending, though illegal is not going to result in the perp going to jail; so too with employment discrimination or racial profiling.

There are plenty of ways that more powerful groups can deploy racism against less powerful groups without having to break the law: by moving away when too many of "them" move in (which one can only do if one has the option of moving without having to worry about discrimination in housing.)

Or one can discriminate in employment but not be subjected to penalty, so long as one makes the claim that the applicant of color was "less qualified," even though that determination is wholly subjective and rarely scrutinized to see if it was determined accurately, as opposed to being a mere proxy for racial bias. In short, it is institutional power that matters most.

Likewise, it’s the difference in power and position that has made recent attempts by American Indian activists in Colorado to turn the tables on white racists so utterly ineffective.

Indian students at Northern Colorado University, fed up by the unwillingness of white school district administrators in Greeley to change the name and grotesque Indian caricature of the Eaton High School “Reds,” recently set out to flip the script on the common practice of mascot-oriented racism.

Thinking they would show white folks what it’s like to “be in their shoes” and experience the objectification of being a team icon, indigenous members of an intramural basketball team renamed themselves the “Fightin’ Whiteys,” and donned t-shirts with the team mascot: a 1950’s-style caricature of a suburban, middle class white guy, next to the phrase “every thang’s gonna be all white.”

Funny though the effort was, it has not only failed to make the point intended, but indeed has been met with laughter and even outright support by white folks. Rush Limbaugh actually advertised for the team’s t-shirts on his radio program, and whites from coast to coast have been requesting team gear, thinking it funny to be turned into a mascot, as opposed to demeaning.

Of course the difference is that it’s tough to negatively objectify a group whose power and position allows them to define the meaning of another group’s attempts at humor: in this case the attempt by Indians to teach them a lesson. It’s tough to school the headmaster, in other words.

Objectification works against the disempowered because they are disempowered. The process doesn’t work in reverse, or at least, making it work is a lot tougher than one might think.

Turning Indians into mascots has been offensive precisely because it is a continuation of the dehumanization of such persons over many centuries; the perpetuation of the mentality of colonization and conquest.

It is not as if one group—whites—merely chose to turn another group—Indians—into mascots. Rather, it is that one group, whites, have consistently viewed Indians as less than fully human, as savage, as “wild,” and have been able to not merely portray such imagery on athletic banners and uniforms, but in history books and literature more crucially.

In the case of the students at Northern, they would need to be a lot more acerbic in their appraisal of whites, in order for their attempts at “reverse racism” to make the point intended. After all, “fightin” is not a negative trait in the eyes of most white folks, and the 1950’s iconography chosen for the uniforms was unlikely to be seen as that big a deal.

Perhaps if they had settled on “slave-owning whiteys,” or “murdering whiteys,” or “land-stealing whiteys,” or “smallpox-giving-on-purpose whiteys,” or “Native-people-butchering whiteys,” or “mass raping whiteys,” the point would have been made.

And instead of a smiling “company man” logo, perhaps a Klansman, or skinhead as representative of the white race: now that would have been a nice functional equivalent of the screaming Indian warrior. But see, you gotta go strong to turn the tables on the man, and ironic sarcasm just ain’t gonna get it nine times out of ten.

Without the power to define another group’s reality, Indian activists are simply incapable of turning the tables by way of well-placed humor.

Simply put, what separates white racism from any other form, and what makes anti-black, anti-brown, anti-yellow, or anti-red humor more biting and more dangerous than its anti-white equivalent is the ability of the former to become lodged in the minds of and perceptions of the citizenry.

White perceptions are what end up counting in a white-dominated society. If whites say Indians are savages (be they of the “noble” or vicious type), then by God, they’ll be seen as savages. If Indians say whites are mayonnaise-eating Amway salespeople, who the hell is going to care? If anything, whites will simply turn it into a marketing opportunity. When you have the power, you can afford to be self-deprecating, after all.

The day that someone produces a newspaper ad that reads: “Twenty honkies for sale today: good condition, best offer accepted,” or “Cracker to be lynched tonight: whistled at black woman,” then perhaps I’ll see the equivalence of these slurs with the more common type to which we’ve grown accustomed.

When white churches start getting burned down by militant blacks who spray paint “kill the honkies” on the sidewalks outside, then maybe I’ll take seriously these concerns over “reverse racism.”

Until then, I guess I’ll find myself laughing at the thought of another old Saturday Night Live skit: this time with Garrett Morris as a convict in the prison talent show who sings:

Gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whiteys I see. Gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whiteys I see. And once I kill all the whiteys I see Then whitey he won’t bother me Gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whiteys I see.

Sorry, but it just isn’t the same.

Tim Wise is an anti-racist essayist, activist and lecturer. He can be reached at timjwise@msn.com

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Did you even read what that guy said?

Why is cracker so offensive to you? Was it used to keep your ancestors down?


It is used to insult me and my skin color. While in middle school/high school I was one of a handful of white students. Do you know how many times I heard cracker, white boy, casper, and a few other terms? Do you think I enjoyed being called that? No, but seeing as how I was like one of twenty white students, I kept my mouth shut. What do you think would have happened had I replied back to one of those guys with coon?

I do not care that nigger was used over 50 years ago while black were being lynched. I care that it is used today to put them down, like cracker is used to put down a white person.

And to the person who asked about Chappelle using cracker, he also uses nigger (or nigga) in the same way. It doesnt make it better or worse.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
I do not care that nigger was used over 50 years ago while black were being lynched.

I think that is sad and unfortunate, and I think you are very, very wrong.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Another good article that discusses what I'm talking about:




That article is a complete waste of time. That article is the kind of thing that just puts fuel on the fire.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Did you even read what that guy said?

Why is cracker so offensive to you? Was it used to keep your ancestors down?


God. Quit having such bias. I mean, you clearly cannot understand that racism doesn't affect one minority group, it can also affect majority groups and other minoritys. The media and the press and all of these organitzaitons try to make it out to be that the blacks are the most hated people in the world, that the white people try to keep them down every chance that they get and that they don't want them to suceed. I mean, where is the common sense? Blacks are high level people in society, they are everywhere, in TV, music, books, printed press, and hell, in sports, I am not saying that racism doesn't exist any longer or that it has dissappered, there are still traits of racism in country. But, people don't seem to look aside the blacks and see that there are other minority groups that suffer the same struggles as they do.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
I think that is sad and unfortunate, and I think you are very, very wrong.

If you are going to quote me, quote the whole thing, not a sentence that can be taken out of context.

[BorderEevilIII]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
lol. When Dave Chappelle (or any black comedian) uses the word Cracker on stage, does the audience walk out? Does anyone in the audience get offeneded? Or even raise an eyebrow for that matter....?

Now imagine ANY white comedian thats not on stage in the south use the N word (i wont even type it mind you). Yea, there would be different reactions.

You can't tell me theyre the same word, or even that cracker is rascist. Crackers, especially those of the salteen variety, are delicious and therefor i take no offense.



Swinging back into the thread on hand and not running into the other direction as this debate is simmering to a boil.........
It's based on content material you are delievering to an audience and certain words and references may be un-PC.
The unwritten rule every comedian should know is when you are behind the mike you have a story to tell that must have a begining to set up the story, a middle and the clincher if there is something funny that will win the audience with laughter. Like George Lopez mentioned, Richards had noooooooooo stand up experience.
Theres a lot of damage control he must do its goin to be a rocky start for Cosmo Kramer if he wants to steer away from that incident.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by BorderEevilIII
Swinging back into the thread on hand and not running into the other direction as this debate is simmering to a boil.........
It's based on content material you are delievering to an audience and certain words and references may be un-PC.
The unwritten rule every comedian should know is when you are behind the mike you have a story to tell that must have a begining to set up the story, a middle and the clincher if there is something funny that will win the audience with laughter. Like George Lopez mentioned, Richards had noooooooooo stand up experience.
Theres a lot of damage control he must do its goin to be a rocky start for Cosmo Kramer if he wants to steer away from that incident.


I think he totally killed his career with this incident and won't get any casting calls anytime soon.

[BorderEevilIII]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
I think he totally killed his career with this incident and won't get any casting calls anytime soon.


Yup


And speaking of killing threads
the pacing is goin off course sooooooo

steer back or LInds is lockin this thread...... :D

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by BorderEevilIII


steer back or LInds is lockin this thread...... :D

I have seen much worse go on in this forum so I would hope not. So far no insults have been used and it is still on topic kind of so it should be ok.....I hope! :D

[Mentiroso]

Here is a video of the full apology.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiuFwmC4qdw&eurl=

[echo_bravo]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
So everything is black and white, cut and dried? No matter what the word is, if there is a racial insult behind it, they are all the same? I don't believe that. That is not true. Cracker and nigger have vastly different histories behind them and they are not one and the same. How often has cracker been shouted at a white man to express hatred and anger and disgust and contempt? I can't believe I even have to argue this. It's laughable to think that those words are equal.

Christ dude!

All Mentiroso is saying is that both words are terrible, racist and uncalled for. THATS IT!

[jeo4]

Before this incident, he was remembered for being an egocentric dork on TV and in movies. Now, he'll be remembered for being a racist, egocentric dork on the stand up circuit. And I don't buy the apology for one second.

[BorderEevilIII]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
I have seen much worse go on in this forum so I would hope not. So far no insults have been used and it is still on topic kind of so it should be ok.....I hope! :D




Yes I have seen worse too also and why can't every schmoe just disagree and move on?

Not directing this to you btw.

Anyways I do like to see this one open as much as possible before it crashes too soon. :D

[jackson13]

Niggaz is goin crayzee in dis thread.

[AWP82]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
God. Quit having such bias. I mean, you clearly cannot understand that racism doesn't affect one minority group, it can also affect majority groups and other minoritys. The media and the press and all of these organitzaitons try to make it out to be that the blacks are the most hated people in the world, that the white people try to keep them down every chance that they get and that they don't want them to suceed. I mean, where is the common sense? Blacks are high level people in society, they are everywhere, in TV, music, books, printed press, and hell, in sports, I am not saying that racism doesn't exist any longer or that it has dissappered, there are still traits of racism in country. But, people don't seem to look aside the blacks and see that there are other minority groups that suffer the same struggles as they do.

Whites aren't a minority. If you're applying this argument to them, your point is partially moot. But otherwise, I don't disagree with the point itself.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by AWP82
Whites aren't a minority. If you're applying this argument to them, your point is partially moot. But otherwise, I don't disagree with the point itself.


Well he did say majority groups too.

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
A word is just a word. If it is racist it is racist. Yeah one word has more history than the other, big deal.

Actually, it IS a big deal.

Words have meaning thats based in CONTEXT, and the goddamn CONTEXT of the word NIGGER in America is such that its a stronger word than 'cracker'. This is not debatable, it is fact.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
This is not debatable, it is fact.


I hate to break it to you but you are not the authority over what is debatable or not. I strongly disagree with you. The context of cracker is just as bad as the context of nigger. One has just been around longer than another. Maybe you could answer the question Madsen hasnt. If cracker isnt as bad to white people as nigger is to balck people, what is not as bad to black people? Coon? Spade? Jigaboo? Porch monkey?

All of these words and more hurt just as bad as when someone calls me cracker or whitey or casper. Your opinion is your opinion no doubt, but that does not make it fact.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Actually, it IS a big deal.

Words have meaning thats based in CONTEXT, and the goddamn CONTEXT of the word NIGGER in America is such that its a stronger word than 'cracker'. This is not debatable, it is fact.


If the context of the word is so bad, why is the minority group that it is aimed towards use it?

[SkyNet]

you know... the word Nigger simply means Ignorant.. to say that that word is solely offensive to black people is really, to call black people ignorant. I'd be offended if i was called a nigger, and im white, cuz im not ignorant!

And to say one word is more racist than another, is horribly stupid. Words are Words... anything can be hurtful if said maliciously... i think that is what seperates "what's up nigga" and "you're a nigger" it is the context of its use. Which i 100% agree that Richards was in the wrong with.. he is a professional comic.. he was pissed.. he should have just ended his act.. cuz now he looks like the ass hole, rather than the ppl in the club being pissed at those ppl who ruined the show for them!

(BTW.. im thinkin this thread is turning into a black vs. white thread.. rather than the story of Michael Richards... which you know... i honestly didnt care about what he did... when you are mad you say whatever comes to your head, not because you truly honestly hate black people, but because when you are pissed at a person who is black who is acting like a fucking ass hole.. you are going to call that person the worst possible thing you can think of)

Chris Rock said it best: There are Black People and There Are Niggers

[Lynn7]

We were flipping around last night and we saw Seinfeld on Letterman- I thought, this must be a rerun cause they were just chatting like nothing had happened. They said the 7th season of Seinfeld was coming out on DVD. Then all of a sudden Richards is on via sattelite giving his apology- it was the worst forum ever for this. As he apologized, some audience members were laughing and Seinfeld had to tell them to stop- he scolded them and said this was serious. It was so awkward! And then Richards said it probably wasn't the right forum too and he made refeerence to the fact that Letterman had made jokes bout the incident in his monologue.

All I can say is that people do say things when they are angry and they wish they could take it back but they can't. All they can do is apologize and try to make reparations and then they have to wait and see what happens. Some people's transgressions will be forgiven and some won't.

Whenever you are mad keep your mouth shut and walk away to cool down- we are all capable of saying horrid things in moments of anger. If he had walked off the stage no one would've been able to ruin his career over it. Poeple might've gotten mad at the heckler's instead.

[thedudeman69]

You know, we should replace all the cuss words, racist words with douchebag. That is the best insult. :D Also, Richards could've used it instead of going on that racist rant. "Quit being douchbags!" :D

[BorderEevilIII]

Here we go again with the I AM RIGHT and YOUR NOT ATTITUDE :rolleyes:



THREAD IS CRASH LANDING in 1-2-3

[jackson13]

I feel like I'm reading a transcript of 'Clerks II' but the 'porch monkey' scene has been replaced with 'nigger'.

I'm just waiting for someone to shout out "I'm taking it back!"

[Mentiroso]

Well not really cuz everyone agrees nigger is BAD. Unlike porch monkey which Randal thought was ok, which it wasnt.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
I mean, you clearly cannot understand that racism doesn't affect one minority group, it can also affect majority groups and other minoritys.

Oh please. This is a load of crap. Of course I realize that racism affects more than one minority group. That goes without saying. I am simply of the opinion that nigger is much more insulting and hurtful to blacks than cracker is to whites.

While it has been heated at times, I have enjoyed this discussion a lot. Just for the record.

[The FamilyJulas]

can someone please get me a link for the rant from youtube? I tried to get it on Tmz but it won't work.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC

While it has been heated at times, I have enjoyed this discussion a lot. Just for the record.


Same here! THC and Madsen always give the best arguments. :D

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by SkyNet
you know... the word Nigger simply means Ignorant.. to say that that word is solely offensive to black people is really, to call black people ignorant. I'd be offended if i was called a nigger, and im white, cuz im not ignorant! I have no idea where you're getting that from, but you are completely and totally mistaken.

The word is a bastardization of "Negro" and it's meant solely as a demeaning and threatening insult to people of African descent with dark skin. Period. That's not my opinion, that's historical fact.

[AWP82]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
Well he did say majority groups too.

Oops. :o I was high. Sorry...

[g05]

i wonder if Jazz is going to call Megatron a ni... oh wait, this isn't the Transformers the movie thread? :D

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Uh, yes, in fact, the word 'nigger' is more racist than 'cracker'.

Oh please. Both are terms meant to insult another based on that person(s)' skin color. I can't believe we're debating the lesser evil here: BOTH sides are incredibly racist and incredibly offensive. Same goes with wap, dago, spic, jigaboo--THEY'RE ALL OFFENSIVE.

Essentially what this argument boils down to is that it's okay for African Americans to call caucasians "crackers" simply because of something our ancestors did to their ancestors. I don't know about you guys, but I never owned a slave and I'm not a racist. I, nor anyone else, deserves to be called a cracker. And no African American deserves to be called a nigger, no Mexican deserves to be called a spic, etc. etc. It's all bad, through and through.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
I have no idea where you're getting that from, but you are completely and totally mistaken.





I have read a few dictionaries that have "nigger" defined as an ignorant/stupid person, along with racial slur. So I think that is where he got that definition from.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by Mr. Fred Krueger
Oh please. Both are terms meant to insult another based on that person(s)' skin color. I can't believe we're debating the lesser evil here: BOTH sides are incredibly racist and incredibly offensive. Same goes with wap, dago, spic, jigaboo--THEY'RE ALL OFFENSIVE.

Essentially what this argument boils down to is that it's okay for African Americans to call caucasians "crackers" simply because of something our ancestors did to their ancestors. I don't know about you guys, but I never owned a slave and I'm not a racist. I, nor anyone else, deserves to be called a cracker. And no African American deserves to be called a nigger, no Mexican deserves to be called a spic, etc. etc. It's all bad, through and through.



Im an glad to see several people, including Freddy here, agree and see it the way it should be seen by everyone.

[Thrizzle]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
That is because Dave Chappelle uses it in a humorous manner and doesn't go on a hate spewing rant like Micheal Richards did.

Theres a humorous way to use the N word? I'd love to see Drew Carey try that.



People talk about context and meaning...what is the context and meaning behind cracker? How is that insulting to me?
We all know what is behind the N word. Its nothing but ugly hate and violence and hundreds of years of suffering at the hands of people who used that word.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
Im an glad to see several people, including Freddy here, agree and see it the way it should be seen by everyone.

Um, bullshit. I do not remember anyone saying that it is OK for black people to call white people crackers, for any reason. That is not what this is about and no one has said otherwise.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Um, bullshit. I do not remember anyone saying that it is OK for black people to call white people crackers, for any reason. That is not what this is about and no one has said otherwise.


No but by implying cracker is less severe than nigger you make it seem like it is ok. You guys argue and argue that nigger is just so horrible but so far you havent said a peep about cracker or the fact that Richards was called a cracker after insulting the black guy. What I saw in the video was two racists, one of them apologized and so far the other one hasnt said a word of apology.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Oh please. This is a load of crap. Of course I realize that racism affects more than one minority group. That goes without saying. I am simply of the opinion that nigger is much more insulting and hurtful to blacks than cracker is to whites.


Then, Why are you not TALKING about the other minority groups besides the blacks if racism affects all of them? why are you isolating the blacks?

[MadsenOMC]

Because Richards said nigger, and we were specifically discussing the use of that word. Just because I was focusing on that word does not mean that I was saying other groups are immune from racism.

[bourahioro]

Read this on myspace, kinda has something to do with this, and slightly echoes what some of you are saying...enjoy, or not:



Offensive tirade captured on video, seen by millions

HOLLYWOOD, CA -- CHRIS WARD, AMAZING REPORTER


Comedian Chris Rock, best known for his whimsical, crowd pleasing roles in "Nurse Betty" and "Head of State," did not please crowds at all on Monday when he lost his cool on stage and delivered a string of racial slurs during his stand-up comedy act.

A sharp turn from his likable persona as "Rodney the Hamster" in Dr. Doolittle, Rock paces back and forth in the video, visibly agitated, and uses the "N-word" over 300 times. The incident closely echoes comedian/quirky sitcom veteran Michael Richards' tirade from earlier in the week.

"It was uncomfortable," says attendee Mike Johnson, a Caucasian-American. "Everything was 'Cracker,' or 'kiss my a--, you f--king cracker!' for over two hours. Then he would change his voice to sound real dorky when he imitated white people. My wife and I were shocked. Then he just started yelling, 'S--t, there ain't a white man in this room that would change places with me!' As a low-income Caucasian with a retail job, a one bedroom apartment and no Internet Movie Database entry, I was appalled and offended at this notion."

Rock's vitriolic video was captured on a cell phone, and also by a crew of nearly 60 film professionals from the Home Box Office network for later broadcast.

Rock -- who is set to reprise his role as Marty in Dreamworks' "Madagascar 2" -- was also heard to say, "Black people don't hate Jews.
Black people hate white people!" on an audio snippet recorded for a major CD release. "As soon as the show and the encore were over, we were out of there," says Susan Lewis, a Caucasian-American in attendance. "I was looking forward to seeing him most as Mooseblood the Mosquito in Jerry Seinfeld's animated 'Bee Movie' next year, but now, f--k that guy. Nothing says 'movie career suicide' like that kind of blatant racist bellowing. And, get this, now I know why 'Everybody Hates Chris.' Can you put that line in the article? Thanks."

Rock's publicist was not available to comment about the funnyman's forthcoming appearance on the Tonight Show, which may or may not include an apology to his Caucasian-American fans for the wild-eyed, stereotype filled tirade.

[JJFlamingo]

Holy shit, now it's getting contagious...:D

[Shockwave]

Did he really use the N-word over 300 times? Is that possible in such a short span of time???

..im wondering if this was a joke or something, id want to see it for myself.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
I have read a few dictionaries that have "nigger" defined as an ignorant/stupid person, along with racial slur. So I think that is where he got that definition from. Yeah, I've heard that as a weakassed justification before, too, and I think it's probably managed to bully it's way into the language and thus dictionaries by sheer repitition of that canard, but I think most of us recognize that that word, in common parlance in America, means one thing and one thing only.

[Shockwave]

...thats what i always thought it meant. Its why i thought it was insulting. Id be pissed off if i was called ignorant/stupid.

Its also why find it funny to hear people call each other such all the time.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Yeah, I've heard that as a weakassed justification before


Who said it was a justification? Is it his fault it is in the dictionary and he happen to run across it? Yeah we know the other meaning as well and that too is usually in the dictionary as well. So explain the "weak assed justification".

[daddiefatsacks]

jeez after this thread, im expecting a new thread to open entitled

Racial Slurs Tournament!!

This week Nigger vs Cracker

next week Spic vs Kike!

WHATS WORSE?

give me a break, a racial insult is a racial insult whichever way you put it.

[Lindsey]

Woooah... Crazy how a thread can get out of hand easily. I don't want to close it, but I will if I have to.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
So explain the "weak assed justification". Okay, I don't want to go too far into this, lest the lovely Lindsey slam the window on our fingers and we've definitely swerved somewhat OT, but...I will address this one thing.

It's "weakassed" because it was made up after the fact by people who wanted to pretend it didn't mean what it always has and always will. It's part of the language, as a 6th or 7th definition in some dictionaries, only because of this widely repeated lie.

That's been going on for a while, and I don't doubt that some people sincerely think that it applies in that way (namely, that it simply means "ignorant", with no racial connotations), but the overwhelming weight of the evidence about the history of the word shows that to be false. That's the reason I felt compelled to mention that and not let it pass without comment, because it's plainly wrong.

All you ever wanted to know about the vilest slur in the whole of the English language, but were afraid to ask: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger

[MadsenOMC]

A few students have called me a cracker when pissed at me for one reason or another, and honestly, it doesn't bother me at all. Not one bit. I actually laugh when it happens. It just sounds so silly to me. Cracker. It's something you put in soup. It's hard for me to take the word seriously. I certainly can't say the same when it comes to nigger. But that's just me. Clearly others here are truly offended by the word cracker.

[jackson13]

"Mr. Garrison?....Whats the big fucking deal bitch?"


Seriously, why is everyone still arguing over this? The man apologized, move on. He lost his cool, said things he didnt mean to say, and apologized like a decent human being. Everyone has said things they dont mean in their life, he just so happens to be famous and his outburst just so happened to be caught on camera. Big deal, it happened, he regrets it and apologized, fugheddaboudit.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by jackson13
He lost his cool, said things he didnt mean to say, and apologized like a decent human being.

Everyone is sorry when they are caught or say something stupid on camera. How do you know he didn't mean them? Saying shit like that just because someone said you're not funny is messed up, and indicates that he has some serious problems.

[BorderEevilIII]

Losing cool w/ 2 hecklers is one thing but RIchards went waaaaaaay overboard when talkin about pitchforks n shit....
The old saying goes ya may forgive but ya never forget. It's always there in the back of everyones minds.

[jackson13]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Everyone is sorry when they are caught or say something stupid on camera. How do you know he didn't mean them? Saying shit like that just because someone said you're not funny is messed up, and indicates that he has some serious problems.

He does have problems. He had a mental breakdown a couple years ago. Which is why it makes it so much easier for me to forgive him. He's been through a lot of shit and is obviously still not well. I cant hold a grudge over that.

[MadsenOMC]

Can you elaborate? I don't know about this mental breakdown. If he is not well, maybe he shouldn't be up on stage.

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by thedudeman69
If the context of the word is so bad, why is the minority group that it is aimed towards use it?

uh..... the context is different when its being used within the minority group rather than outisde of it. THATS WHAT I MEANT BY 'THE CONTEXT'.

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by bourahioro
Read this on myspace, kinda has something to do with this, and slightly echoes what some of you are saying...enjoy, or not:



Offensive tirade captured on video, seen by millions

HOLLYWOOD, CA -- CHRIS WARD, AMAZING REPORTER


Comedian Chris Rock, best known for his whimsical, crowd pleasing roles in "Nurse Betty" and "Head of State," did not please crowds at all on Monday when he lost his cool on stage and delivered a string of racial slurs during his stand-up comedy act.

A sharp turn from his likable persona as "Rodney the Hamster" in Dr. Doolittle, Rock paces back and forth in the video, visibly agitated, and uses the "N-word" over 300 times. The incident closely echoes comedian/quirky sitcom veteran Michael Richards' tirade from earlier in the week.

"It was uncomfortable," says attendee Mike Johnson, a Caucasian-American. "Everything was 'Cracker,' or 'kiss my a--, you f--king cracker!' for over two hours. Then he would change his voice to sound real dorky when he imitated white people. My wife and I were shocked. Then he just started yelling, 'S--t, there ain't a white man in this room that would change places with me!' As a low-income Caucasian with a retail job, a one bedroom apartment and no Internet Movie Database entry, I was appalled and offended at this notion."

Rock's vitriolic video was captured on a cell phone, and also by a crew of nearly 60 film professionals from the Home Box Office network for later broadcast.

Rock -- who is set to reprise his role as Marty in Dreamworks' "Madagascar 2" -- was also heard to say, "Black people don't hate Jews.
Black people hate white people!" on an audio snippet recorded for a major CD release. "As soon as the show and the encore were over, we were out of there," says Susan Lewis, a Caucasian-American in attendance. "I was looking forward to seeing him most as Mooseblood the Mosquito in Jerry Seinfeld's animated 'Bee Movie' next year, but now, f--k that guy. Nothing says 'movie career suicide' like that kind of blatant racist bellowing. And, get this, now I know why 'Everybody Hates Chris.' Can you put that line in the article? Thanks."

Rock's publicist was not available to comment about the funnyman's forthcoming appearance on the Tonight Show, which may or may not include an apology to his Caucasian-American fans for the wild-eyed, stereotype filled tirade.


That's... dumb. Have you ever heard Chris Rock's comedy? All of his comedy is making fun of BLACK PEOPLE. In fact, the only times Chris Rock uses 'cracker' is when he's making fun of racist blacks.

And to be honest, if a comedian got onstage and basically started making a shitload of jokes about how crackers are horrible or whatever, it WOULD be offensive, and I don't see why people believe that it would just be let slide.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
That's... dumb. Have you ever heard Chris Rock's comedy? All of his comedy is making fun of BLACK PEOPLE. In fact, the only times Chris Rock uses 'cracker' is when he's making fun of racist blacks.




Oh so it is ok for a black man to be racist but not a white man like Richards?

[The Heart Collector]

Can you please explain to me how in God's holy name you got THAT from the stuff I said which you quoted? Because the two ideas have basically nothing to do with each other.

[Mentiroso]

Well you brush off the fact that Chris uses cracker and nigger as just part of his act. Two horrible words. Richards uses it one time and boom, biggest racist since Mel Gibson and Hitler.

You cant brush of one guy saying it as just part of his act and then get pissy with someone else using it. Is it ok for me to get up on stage and just shout racial slurs while making funny faces and then claim it is part of my act?

[The Heart Collector]

Chris Rock uses the word 'nigger' as part of his act. THis is acceptable because it has been fairly established that the word 'nigger', when used by african-americans in the context that they use it in, is fine, whereas if its used by other races, it will most likely sound racist, even if it wasn't meant to. We can debate how 'right' or 'wrong' this is, but its TRUE.

Chris Rock uses the word cracker when he's making fun of black people who might be racists. There is nothing wrong with this, just as there's nothing wrong when David Cross uses the word 'nigger' in his act because both him and Chris Rock are putting the words in someone else's mouths, or quoting someone, someone they're mocking.

Finally, Chris Rock is black. He interacted with black people when young, he interacts with black people now. He was poor and he grew up at the kind of place where you'd hear the word 'nigger' thrown around often, by blacks, with no harmful meaning. His comedy is about his experiences, which just so happen to be black. I dunno what you're expecting, are you expecting Chris Rock to NOT use the word 'nigger' even though the people he's making fun of are the type that do?


In conclusion, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

[jackson13]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Can you elaborate? I don't know about this mental breakdown. If he is not well, maybe he shouldn't be up on stage.

I just read in this morning in the paper. There was a little story about how he hasnt been able to do anything since Seinfeld, and when 'The Michael Richards Show' tanked, he had a nervous breakdown. The story itself didn't elaborate, which is why I didnt.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
dunno what you're expecting, are you expecting Chris Rock to NOT use the word 'nigger' even though the people he's making fun of are the type that do?




Actually yeah, if nigger is so horrible, no one should use it. If black people can say it, whites/latino/asian people should be able to as well.
That is the only thing that makes sense to me. Either everyone uses it or no one should.

And if you dont understand what I am talking about, there is no hope explaining it to you.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Chris Rock uses the word 'nigger' as part of his act. THis is acceptable because it has been fairly established that the word 'nigger', when used by african-americans in the context that they use it in, is fine, whereas if its used by other races, it will most likely sound racist, even if it wasn't meant to. We can debate how 'right' or 'wrong' this is, but its TRUE.

Chris Rock uses the word cracker when he's making fun of black people who might be racists. There is nothing wrong with this, just as there's nothing wrong when David Cross uses the word 'nigger' in his act because both him and Chris Rock are putting the words in someone else's mouths, or quoting someone, someone they're mocking.

Finally, Chris Rock is black. He interacted with black people when young, he interacts with black people now. He was poor and he grew up at the kind of place where you'd hear the word 'nigger' thrown around often, by blacks, with no harmful meaning. His comedy is about his experiences, which just so happen to be black. I dunno what you're expecting, are you expecting Chris Rock to NOT use the word 'nigger' even though the people he's making fun of are the type that do?


In conclusion, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Are you in favor of a double standard? If any word got such an offensive meaning for anyone on the planet it's better to ban them in the minds of the civil people. Taboo.
Even when you use them for the "artistic" purposes you must expect to be called names from the easily offended people.
Chris Rock and his attitude suck. M. Richards sucks. The whole world sucks. :( :( :(

[bourahioro]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Chris Rock uses the word 'nigger' as part of his act. THis is acceptable because it has been fairly established that the word 'nigger', when used by african-americans in the context that they use it in, is fine,
. He was poor and he grew up at the kind of place where you'd hear the word 'nigger' thrown around often, by blacks, with no harmful meaning.



"with no harmful meaning?" I'm white, but if I were a comedian like I dunno...say Michael Richards....and used the word "nigger", you bet your ass someone'd be suing, or trying to kick my ass...that asshole's lucky they didn't jump onstage and kick the shit outta him.

And you'd think that growing up in a place like Rock did, he'd know why NOT to use a word like that.

When I first posted that clip, it was to alleviate some of the seriousness of this thread, and you took it to be a direct attack on a celebrity that you likely enjoy (I'm a fan, I can relate), mellow out.

[The Heart Collector]

What the fuck are you talking about?


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

Look, regardless of how 'good' or 'bad' it is, black people in the ghetto use the word 'nigger' in a completely different way than the rest of the world uses it, therefore it's not offensive to them I GIVE UP

[SkyNet]

maybe its just me, but i fail to see how people say that it is ok for people to use the word Nigger and it not be racist, while these same people say that when whites say it, it is racist.. but at the same point of them saying that.. they themselves ARE BEING RACIST!

To say it is ok for some people to say or do certain things but others not.. is really racist, and that is exactly what keeps this world segregated. People always want equality between all the races, but those same people feel that certain words or gestures are only allowable by certain races.

Can't understand that

Also.. there are people (on you tube) that are calling Richards apology "Too Little Too Late"... whoever said that on the you tube forum is just fucking retarded... he made his apology what... 1 or 2 days after theincident.. and was on the show for about 10 minutes... so Too Little Too late is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard of, it isnt like Mel Gibson who came to Diane Sawyer like 3 months later.

I hate people! (most of them anyway)

[someguy]

maybe its just me, but i fail to see how people say that it is ok for people to use the word Nigger and it not be racist, while these same people say that when whites say it, it is racist.. but at the same point of them saying that.. they themselves ARE BEING RACIST!


ahahahhaaa

[DRbeauty]

Crackers, especially those of the salteen variety, are delicious and therefor i take no offense.

Funny as hell.

I'm not going to pretend I have some sort of authority to write my opinion just because I'm black but I can see both sides. The word cracker does not have the same history as the word nigger. However, if I was white and somebody repeatedly called me that word as a racist insult, I would have every right to be upset. It's not the word it's the feelings and thoughts behind it. It doesn't seem to be an insult to many people because it hasn't been used like nigger has for hundreds of years. Racism is racism, although I don't think you can argue that the two words are equal.

Actually yeah, if nigger is so horrible, no one should use it. If black people can say it, whites/latino/asian people should be able to as well.

I don't understand this statement. Why exactly would whites, latinos, and asians want to use that word? Who's to say that they don't? I have many white and latino friends who use the word nigga in greeting or in conversation with many black people. They're comfortable with them because they know that when they're calling them that word it's out of affection. It would be stupid for a random white person to go up to a bunch of black people and say that because they don't know their intention behind saying that word.

[Lindsey]

Sorry guys... I've gotten numerous e-mails regarding this thread.

It's going downhill as it is. It's just a matter of time before it gets out of hand.