Mad Mel back in the news

[echo_bravo]

TMZ has learned Mel Gibson exploded in anger last night on a college campus after an expert on Mayan culture accussed him of racially stereotyping the Mayans in the movie "Apocalypto."

It happened last night at Cal State University at Northridge in the San Fernando Valley. Gibson was speaking to a film class about his movies, and several members of the Mayan community came to hear the famous director.

After Gibson's presentation, the crowd was allowed to ask questions. Alicia Estrada, an Assistant Professor of Central American Studies at CSUN, challenged Gibson, asking him if he had read about the Mayan culture before shooting the controversial film. Gibson said he had.

Estrada persisted, stating that representations in the movie that the Mayans engaged in sacrificial ceremonies and had bloodthirsty tendencies were both wrong and racist. Estrada and others tell TMZ that Gibson exploded in anger, responding, "Lady, F**k off."

We're told Gibson also became extremely angry when members of the Mayan community protested on how they were portrayed in the film. The emotional Mayan members were escorted out of the room, and we're told Gibson screamed a parting shot -- "Make your own movie!"

UPDATE: Gibson's publicist, Alan Nierob, told TMZ, "This person was a heckler who was rude and disrupted the event, so much so that the event organizers had to escort her out." For the record, Nierob, not Howard Rubenstein, reps Gibson.

__________________________________________________

At least he didnt address her as "sugar tits".:D

[outsyder]

Sounds like Mel was in the right on this one. Not very subtle, but right.

[Mentiroso]

I read this last week and kinda agreed with him. Fuck that bitch!

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
Fuck that bitch!


Was she hot? Because...I don't know....maybe.

[IronMonkey]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
I read this last week and kinda agreed with him. Fuck that bitch!

Yep. I support Gibson! My goal in life is to get rich enough so that whenever someone irks the shit out of me, I dont have to be "PC" and fear for my livlihood for speaking whats truly on my mind - Just tell them to fuck off! You are my hero Mel!

[Vong]

I don't know if people here are being facetious or not :confused:

[KcMsterpce]

Mel, Mel, Mel...

What would Jesus do?

But at the same time, how can it NOT be said that the Mayans were bloodthirsty sacrificial extremists? From my experience watching the Discovery channel, they WERE.

Oh well, I'm not as educated as others.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Vong
I don't know if people here are being facetious or not All I know is that he has a large and vocal contingent here who will forgive him literally anything he does, says or believes. Who will always deny what and who he is, no matter how clearly the evidence is presented.

Actually, this goes beyond him being a raging, demented bigot. All this really demonstrates is that he's a shitty churl who has zero social skills, who has never had anyone call him to account for that and he doesn't even have to be drunk for that to become obvious.

[JJFlamingo]

I don't see the problem here. Gibson said nothing racist or offensive, he was being faced with a woman obviously looking for trouble and he put her in her place. Any 9 out of 10 other celebs handled the situation like this everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE would wanna give them high-fives. Cut the guy a break...

[Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by JJFlamingo
Cut the guy a break... [/B]

Exactly. It's not like Mel is prone to sudden and outrageous outbursts for no reason or that he lacks any sort of self-control. Certainly it's reasonable to give the benefit of the doubt to the racist and sexist alcoholic when it's his word against a college professor whose expertise is Central American studies. After all, he's a celebrity.

[The Heart Collector]

Originally posted by echo_bravo
We're told Gibson also became extremely angry when members of the Mayan community protested on how they were portrayed in the film. The emotional Mayan members were escorted out of the room, and we're told Gibson screamed a parting shot -- "Make your own movie!"


hahahahaha

[bigred760]

I gotta side with Gibson as well; if I'm not mistaken the good guys were Mayan as well; just not part of the bigger civilization. From what I've studied in school, they weren't too far off - though it's been a while and I could be getting my cultures mixed up. I agree with Gibson; they should make their own damn movie and portray them as the fun-loving group of guys who love bunnies, kittens, and cupcakes that they are.

[EVILxxx]

If the Mayans didn't engage in such activities, then every history lesson I have taken on this subject since 3rd grade has been wrong.

[Backstabba]

I love Mel Gibson...
Yes, he has to deal with the anti-semitism comments, but he's apologized more times than I can remember, so atleast he's trying to make it right (atleast that's what I think, Mr. Close-Minded)

The woman sounds like a bitch, but I'm not sure about the Mayans, I guess the lady just got him on the edge.

[powersauce]

Originally posted by outsyder
Sounds like Mel was in the right on this one. Not very subtle, but right.

[thedudeman69]

Hey, at least he didn't call her sugartits.

[Country1969]

I can't belive these people have problems with these movies. These people need to grow up.
Come on, it's a movie. Leave the man alone and their film makers.
I'm tired of these people protesting and stirring up trouble because it hurts their feelings or protrayed it a slight different. DONT WATCH THE MOVIE. The more they bother him the more I love him.

The next thing you know they will be picking on Spiderman movies.

About his behavior, you would act like that too if someone puts your work down too. He has every right to defend himself against these people. It doesn't matter what he screams, he has that right. These people should keep their opinion to themself and let the man be. This is his work and work of other film makers.

[jolanar]

Originally posted by outsyder
Sounds like Mel was in the right on this one. Not very subtle, but right.

Yup.

[Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by Country1969
About his behavior, you would act like that too if someone puts your work down too.

Are you saying that every filmmaker who gets the least bit of criticism reacts by telling the critic to "Fuck off!" You think you'd hear about that more often.

If you're a filmmaker, you have to expect negative criticism of your work. You can either be a class act, or you can act like Mel.

Frankly, I'd respect him more if he'd responded like Uwe Bole and just beat the shit out of them.

He has every right to defend himself against these people.

Defending yourself is one thing. No one's saying he shouldn't. And I'd respond to her by saying that movies are not documentaries. He had a guy reach into another guy's chest and pull out a still-beating heart while the victim watched. Not exactly historical.

But to respond by telling her to "fuck off" is about what you'd expect from, well, a drunken racist sexist douche.

[Criminal Rock]

I agree with beeble on this one. Every movie will get some shit thrown at it... as a filmmaker, especially as a director, you kinda have to expect this and you have to deal with it like a professional.

Though in a way, I sort of sympathize with the guy... i'd be edgy to if people were out to get me at every public speech I gave. even if I deserved it. It'd still suck.

[Crazy Dud]

Mel was right this time. However, he certainly didn't handle the situation the right way. The guy clearly has a lot of issues he needs to work through. Most of his movies, besides Apocalypto, seem to suggest that Mel has something positive to say, and I respect him for that. But he needs to get himself right in his personal life first. Especially as it is now spilling into his professional life.

[Buck Turgidson]

I would love to know how many of Gibson's defenders here would be singing a different tune if this were Sean Penn who had acted like an ass instead.

[Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
I would love to know how many of Gibson's defenders here would be singing a different tune if this were Sean Penn who had acted like an ass instead.

Or Michael Moore. :D

[Shockwave]

I really dont like Mel at all, but i HATE hecklers.


I probably wouldve done the same thing.

Moore would think they were cheering him on anyway.:)

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
I would love to know how many of Gibson's defenders here would be singing a different tune if this were Sean Penn who had acted like an ass instead.

I doubt anyone would bat an eyelash if Sean Penn flipped on on anyone for anything.

[<3mekthx]

He told the woman to fuck off. Classic.

I have absolutely no problem with it. And she want's him to apoligize? Give me a break.

I wonder how many of Gibson's bashers here would be singing a different tune if it were Sean Penn or Michael Moore who acted like an ass instead.

[AngelDust06]

Originally posted by outsyder
Sounds like Mel was in the right on this one. Not very subtle, but right.

100% agree

[ElderPredator]

I completely agree with Mel as well and that bitch should shut the hell up! :cool:

[echo_bravo]

I thought the director of Pride portrayed white people in a negative manner...I am going to heckle him when I see him!:D

[IronMonkey]

Originally posted by Beeblebrox
Exactly. It's not like Mel is prone to sudden and outrageous outbursts for no reason or that he lacks any sort of self-control. Certainly it's reasonable to give the benefit of the doubt to the racist and sexist alcoholic when it's his word against a college professor whose expertise is Central American studies. After all, he's a celebrity.

When it comes to extreme whacko liberalism, College Professors arent that far from most celebs.

But still - I'll side with celebs most any day - mostly they come from similar backgrounds like us joblos and have had hard knocks along the way and actually had to work for a living before hitting it big - this kind of life helps to ground people. CPs basically spend their lives living on a campus and not having a clue what the real world is all about -

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by <3mekthx
I wonder how many of Gibson's bashers here would be singing a different tune if it were Sean Penn or Michael Moore who acted like an ass instead. I can tell you right now that if Penn or Moore took a question from an accredited college professor whose speciality was the subject of the movie they had made, in a forum like this, and responded to a legitimate question with "Lady, fuck off!" I WOULD NOT defend them.

You guys must be reading different accounts than I am. People who ask questions in a provided for Q&A forum aren't "hecklers."

[outsyder]

Just for the record, she's not a prof. She's a TA.

[EVILxxx]

As much as Gibson's image has been damaged recently, I can't image the conversation going the way the people who are bashing him think it went.
"Mr. Gibson, did you do your research?"
"Lady, fuck off!"
I deal daily with the species of "encollege soiknowitalles" on a daily basis. They tend to act strangely when in their native environment.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by outsyder
Just for the record, she's not a prof. She's a TA. The story reads "Assistant Professor." In any case, not just some schmoe off the street with an axe to grind, and not someone who just started screaming questions out of the blue.

Unless she escalated the conversation to personal abuse and profanity, I don't care when he progeressed to "Lady, fuck off!" That's way over the line.

Look, I like The Road Warrior and Tequila Sunrise as much as anybody (probably more than anybody in the latter case), but this guy is a repeatedly proven scumbag, on every possible level. That's a fact that needs to be faced.

[Country1969]

Originally posted by Beeblebrox
Are you saying that every filmmaker who gets the least bit of criticism reacts by telling the critic to "Fuck off!" You think you'd hear about that more often.

If you're a filmmaker, you have to expect negative criticism of your work. You can either be a class act, or you can act like Mel.

Frankly, I'd respect him more if he'd responded like Uwe Bole and just beat the shit out of them.



Defending yourself is one thing. No one's saying he shouldn't. And I'd respond to her by saying that movies are not documentaries. He had a guy reach into another guy's chest and pull out a still-beating heart while the victim watched. Not exactly historical.

But to respond by telling her to "fuck off" is about what you'd expect from, well, a drunken racist sexist douche.

He was making a speech and this woman starts on him. If she wanted to bitch about the movie she should had held her our speech else where. If he wants to show something in his movie he can. Negative criticism is expected from people but to heckle this man while his giving a speech is just wrong. If you don't like a movie, you are not forced to watch it people. Either you like it or not. No need to bitch about the events in the movie whether its not exactly what happened or not.
It's a movie. You can't please everyone.

About the Passion of the Christ.....big blow up about this film.
All I have to say it was a very good movie. I was not offended about anything in it. I don't blame any group for his death. I just watched the movie and thats it. We were not there. You can't always believe what you read in books also. Could be true could be false. But many people did have a problem with this film. " We didn't do it." "It didn't happened that way." "Too much blood in the movie."


Whether he drinks or their behavior is not too you liking does not give people right to bring his personal life into the picture. Just because he told her to F--K Off makes it relative to drinking. I would have said the same thing and I don't drink. Suppose you got hit from someone who walked up to you and just punched you, you tell me you would just take it and walk away. NO, you would react to it. You attack we counter attack. These people speak to celebrities/film makers like that and they cry when they are told off. All they do is bitch about movies about lesbians,terrorists,abortions etc.

I'm white so should I bitch about movies that bring white people down? I don't, it's about entertainment people. I know many will not agree with me but thats life. I am just defending what I believe. Maybe he should have said , "That's fine miss." And just continued lalking to the other people. You think that would have stopped rude people like that from doi ng this stuff at his other speeches?

100% for Mel.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Country1969
He was making a speech and this woman starts on him. If she wanted to bitch about the movie she should had held her our speech else where. If he wants to show something in his movie he can. Negative criticism is expected from people but to heckle this man while his giving a speech is just wrong. Again, that's not what happened.Originally posted by echo_bravo
After Gibson's presentation, the crowd was allowed to ask questions. Alicia Estrada, an Assistant Professor of Central American Studies at CSUN, challenged Gibson, asking him if he had read about the Mayan culture before shooting the controversial film. Gibson said he had. (Emphasis added)

[echo_bravo]

Originally posted by Country1969
He was making a speech and this woman starts on him. If she wanted to bitch about the movie she should had held her our speech else where. If he wants to show something in his movie he can. Negative criticism is expected from people but to heckle this man while his giving a speech is just wrong. If you don't like a movie, you are not forced to watch it people. Either you like it or not. No need to bitch about the events in the movie whether its not exactly what happened or not.
It's a movie. You can't please everyone.

About the Passion of the Christ.....big blow up about this film.
All I have to say it was a very good movie. I was not offended about anything in it. I don't blame any group for his death. I just watched the movie and thats it. We were not there. You can't always believe what you read in books also. Could be true could be false. But many people did have a problem with this film. " We didn't do it." "It didn't happened that way." "Too much blood in the movie."


Whether he drinks or their behavior is not too you liking does not give people right to bring his personal life into the picture. Just because he told her to F--K Off makes it relative to drinking. I would have said the same thing and I don't drink. Suppose you got hit from someone who walked up to you and just punched you, you tell me you would just take it and walk away. NO, you would react to it. You attack we counter attack. These people speak to celebrities/film makers like that and they cry when they are told off. All they do is bitch about movies about lesbians,terrorists,abortions etc.

I'm white so should I bitch about movies that bring white people down? I don't, it's about entertainment people. I know many will not agree with me but thats life. I am just defending what I believe. Maybe he should have said , "That's fine miss." And just continued lalking to the other people. You think that would have stopped rude people like that from doi ng this stuff at his other speeches?

100% for Mel.

Good post. Totally agree with you.

Also a number of other witnesses said the women was being rude and "heckling" so she was escorted out.

[Preston_79]

The lady was way out of line. I saw her on the news making light of all her comments as though she was being polite and respectful, but she wasn't.
Fuck that dumb cunt right in the ear!

I think Mel's movies are great. I hope he gets every chance to keep on making these great films.

[Preston_79]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
I would love to know how many of Gibson's defenders here would be singing a different tune if this were Sean Penn who had acted like an ass instead.

So If we like Mel it's assumed we don't like Penn. Whatever....

It's not about their politics and I happen to like both actors. Mel and Penn are both good people and though they may act a fool at times. I think their hearts are in the right place.

[Scarfather]

If this were ANY director but Gibson, there would be no detractors, the director would be universally sympathized, but it's Mel he be evil Gibson, so every idiot still brainsore about last Summer is jumping on any and all chances for more Gibson bashing.

[MadsenOMC]

How dare an Assistant Professor of Central American Studies ask Gibson a question about Apocalypto? Who do these people think they are? Filmmakers? He must have been at the school to talk about directing techniques only. Not the content of the films he makes. Seriously, if Gibson fucked and murdered a small child on film and was convicted for it in a court of law, there'd be people defending him here while accusing others of being too harsh on him. It's pathetic. And since when has he repeatedly apologized for anything? That isn't Gibson's style. I can separate the art from the artist and I will still see his movies if they look interesting, but the man himself is a massive piece of shit. He has serious anger problems (in addition to other issues) and it's sad that people go so far out of their way to defend someone like him.

[Preston_79]

Beside what he said when he was drunk last summer, what has Mel done to piss people off? I mean calling the guy a piece of shit you must have some examples of bad behavior that I never heard about. Untill I know more he's not really looking any worse than anyone else who's made a few mistakes. Has he murdered anyone....any sober displays of racism....wife beater....neglected his children....cheater....What then?

[MadsenOMC]

So you are one of those people? The alcohol excuses everything? It's no big deal because he was over the legal limit? Whatever helps you sleep at night. In addition to being a raging anti-Semite with extreme anger issues, Mel has gone on the record with misogynistic comments and is a known homophobe. I'm sure you'll make excuses for those as well.

[Scarfather]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Seriously, if Gibson fucked and murdered a small child on film and was convicted for it in a court of law, there'd be people defending him here while accusing others of being too harsh on him.

Seriously?

[Preston_79]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
So you are one of those people? The alcohol excuses everything? It's no big deal because he was over the legal limit? Whatever helps you sleep at night. In addition to being a raging anti-Semite with extreme anger issues, Mel has gone on the record with misogynistic comments and is a known homophobe. I'm sure you'll make excuses for those as well.

Yeah I can think of plenty of excuses. I know some homophibic people that I would still consider friends or good people. I've said things I didn't mean while I was drunk. Things I may have thought about, but truthely, rationaly I knew weren't true. There have been times I've come off as a sexist, maybe I am a little sexist. Looking around I think having problems is part of being human.
I don't mean to come off like I love the guy. I guess I'm just not feeling like there's enough there yet that I know for sure to hate hime or loathe him.

[Buck Turgidson]

I don't intend to review the whole case against this dick, but it's considerable. Do a search for threads in this forum about him, it's all pretty well covered.

He's not just a rude, ignorant lout. He's a dangerous drunk, an anti-Semite and a truly vile and spiteful person. I'm really tired of having to go over this set of facts again and again for people who don't know them, or (much worse) won't accept them.

I didn't just wake up one day and decide I had a problem with him. At one time, I rather liked him, but over time, as more and more of his personality has shown, it's become clear what and who he is. He's richly earned my distaste via his very public and on the record actions, over the course of several years.

[Preston_79]

I respect that opinion.
I also realized I don't even care enough about Mel Gibson to take this debate or arguement any further. Maybe someday if I care more I'll review all the facts and if I feel he's as big a dirt bag as you say I'll try to summon the appropriate degree of hatred. Fare enough?

[Buck Turgidson]

Yes, that's fair enough :cool:

[Crazy Dud]

I find it interesting that Mel Gibson has taken more heat as a celebrity than even Kobe Bryant, who admitted to cheating on his wife, or Dennis freaking Rodman, who is a celebrity who may actually be worthy of the heat Mel has received. Has Mel actually done anything illegal, violent, or unforgivable? No. There are plenty of other celebrities that have done stupid things in public, such as Tom Cruise or Winona Ryder, yet not even Winona has been called a scumbag on these boards, to the best of my knowledge, and she's a shoplifter. It seems to me that people are not applying the same standards to ALL celebrities, which is wrong.

Note I said nowhere that I like Mel Gibson. I am not particularly fond of the man, either, but can people PLEASE stop bitching about other people's personal problems? I'm sure we all have plenty of our own to be concerned with.

[Buck Turgidson]

Racism and bigotry are a whole other galaxy, at least for some of us.

When you attack people in a public forum, as he did, it's no longer a matter of you and your personal demons. If you're going to come out in public and expect to be treated as a serious person and not a crank, you need to learn how to at least pretend to behave like a rational adult. If he's that unstable, maybe he should stay inside somewhere.

Also, Winona Ryder took one hell of a lot of grief around here during her trial.

[Country1969]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Again, that's not what happened. (Emphasis added)


LOS ANGELES (AP):

Mel Gibson exchanged heated words with a professor after an on-campus screening of Gibson's latest film, Apocalypto.

Gibson was answering questions from the crowd last Thursday when Alicia Estrada, an assistant professor of Central American studies at California State University, Northridge, accused the actor-director of misrepresenting the Mayan culture in the movie, observers said.

Gibson directed an expletive at the woman, who was removed from the crowd, representatives for the actor and the school said.

Estrada did not return telephone messages.

The R-rated film about the decline of Mayan civilisation shows Mayan rulers slitting throats, beheading and ripping the still-beating hearts from the chests of their enemies.

Rude and disruptive

"The woman was a heckler who was rude and disruptive inasmuch as the event organisers had to escort her out," Gibson's publicist, Alan Nierob, told The Associated Press.

A student who attended the programme told the Daily News of Los Angeles that Gibson used the F-word and told the professor she should "get a history book and read".



I guess everyone was wrong? It happened just like this and you can't hide that fact. Don't tell me that it didnt happened that way. I must be reading this whole thing wrong. She was there to stir up trouble and make a name for herself. She probably doesnt even care about the Mayan people.

Just because a celeb got picked up for drunk driving, drugs,behavior etc., do you people go to dislike the person for those things. He could be a great actor or film maker and you are willing to give up on that person because of he or she did? Come on people, you wouldnt turn your back on your loved one if they did that. Everyone makes mistakes but that's life.

I bet you the celeb you like does not act like you think they do.
Behind closed doors they probably do things that would make you think twice for liking them. Angels in front of cameras but devils behind them. They are human like us.

[MadsenOMC]

So because Gibson's publicist said it, it must be true? Right. She was there to make a name for herself and probably doesn't care about the Mayan people? Where do you get that idea from? If my loved one was a raging anti-Semitic misogynistic homophobe, then yes, I would have a serious problem with that.

[IronMonkey]

Your over the top hatred for the man and analogies you use of him being supported even if he raped kids, killed people or whatever blather you espoused earlier - are well - quite laughable. :o

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by IronMonkey
Your over the top hatred for the man and analogies you use of him being supported even if he raped kids, killed people or whatever blather you espoused earlier - are well - quite laughable. :o

My hatred is hardly over the top and my statement is hardly laughable because it is quite true. I don't sit around all day thinking about how much I hate Gibson. It's not even that I hate him as much as I think he's not a good person and has some serious issues. What is laughable, however, is the way so many people continue to make pathetic excuses for him no matter what he does. That, sir, is over the top.

[ilovemovies]

Sometimes, people are not just strictly black and white. There is a grey area and Gibson strikes me as that kind of person. The fact that Gibson is such a well liked person by a lot of people, he strikes me as someone who tries to be a nice guy and even often is but he definitely struggles with his inner demons and with his beliefs that he maybe doesn't like but probably because of the way he was brought up he has and such.

That's my theory.

I really don't care about any of this though. All I care about is that he continues to make good movies.

I was in the minority of not liking Apocalypto. So if I was that lady, I wouldn't care if the movie portrayed the mayans accurately or not. Instead I'd ask for my money back! ;)

[IronMonkey]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
My hatred is hardly over the top and my statement is hardly laughable because it is quite true. I don't sit around all day thinking about how much I hate Gibson. It's not even that I hate him as much as I think he's not a good person and has some serious issues. What is laughable, however, is the way so many people continue to make pathetic excuses for him no matter what he does. That, sir, is over the top.

No, its NOT quite true. Now its even more laughable :rolleyes:

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by IronMonkey
No, its NOT quite true. Now its even more laughable :rolleyes:

Oh no! More dreaded little faces! Those always win debates. Even if what I said was for dramatic purposes, it doesn't make it any less true that many people go way out of their way to make excuses for Gibson. You can't deny that, and you appear to be one of them.

[Preston_79]

Okay I'm going to insert my opinion again in this thread.
I just want to say that I don't think anyone here is "going out of their way" to defend Gibson any more than others might be "going out of their way" to slam him for stuff that so many others are guilty of. I just don't see how Gibson's problems are any different than other peoples. I see bad behavior all the time from good people. I don't think people are 100 percent bad, let's just say for the sake of argument that they act inapproprait 2 percent of the time, but the 2 percent is the only part we really seem to care about and focus on.

[MadsenOMC]

IMO it's not a case of bad behavior from a good person. It's bad behavior from a bad person. Of course I have never met Gibson, it's just my opinion of him based on things he has said and done. See what I'm saying?

[Preston_79]

I think I do see what you're saying. Maybe based on your values and what little you know of Gibson you've decided he's a bad person and that's fine. With me the jury is still out. I just see a person who's made mistakes, but I don't know enough about him to say he's bad. He's just human in my eyes. I'll echo what another person said and that's that things aren't black and white.
While I don't agree with you, I'm not sitting here shaking my head in disbelief that someone feels as you do toward someone they don't know, a celebrity of all people who's problems get put under a microscope for all to see. I respect your opinion.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by Preston_79
I think I do see what you're saying. Maybe based on your values and what little you know of Gibson you've decided he's a bad person and that's fine. With me the jury is still out. I just see a person who's made mistakes, but I don't know enough about him to say he's bad. He's just human in my eyes. I'll echo what another person said and that's that things aren't black and white.
While I don't agree with you, I'm not sitting here shaking my head in disbelief that someone feels as you do toward someone they don't know, a celebrity of all people who's problems get put under a microscope for all to see. I respect your opinion.

IMO there are different levels of mistakes. Yes, my values lead me to have problems with anti-Semitic, misogynistic homophobes. I think someone who fits that description is not a good person. Plenty of people struggle with alcohol. That alone doesn't make someone a bad person. But, those other aspects of his personality do, at least IMO. His problems go way beyond the alcohol.

[IronMonkey]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Oh no! More dreaded little faces! Those always win debates. Even if what I said was for dramatic purposes, it doesn't make it any less true that many people go way out of their way to make excuses for Gibson. You can't deny that, and you appear to be one of them.

The only thing I aint denyng is you trying to now backpeddle :D

[MadsenOMC]

Another face. Awesome. I'm not backpeddling at all. I stand by what I said. You keep on dodging what I'm saying though. You say a lot by not saying a lot.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
IMO there are different levels of mistakes. Yes, my values lead me to have problems with anti-Semitic, misogynistic homophobes. I think someone who fits that description is not a good person. Plenty of people struggle with alcohol. That alone doesn't make someone a bad person. But, those other aspects of his personality do, at least IMO. His problems go way beyond the alcohol. Exactly.

Most everybody has some friends who will stick up for them. That's essentially meaningless. He might be a swell guy 99% of the time, but if you act like this in public, repeatedly, you have serious problems and need to have them addressed.

A "Mel's my pal" note from Jodie Foster doesn't absolve him (and since he thinks his own wife is going to Hell, I do have to wonder where he thinks Jodie's heading.)

[Preston_79]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Exactly.

Most everybody has some friends who will stick up for them. That's essentially meaningless. He might be a swell guy 99% of the time, but if you act like this in public, repeatedly, you have serious problems and need to have them addressed.

A "Mel's my pal" note from Jodie Foster doesn't absolve him (and since he thinks his own wife is going to Hell, I do have to wonder where he thinks Jodie's heading.)

Agreed.
I speak from experience from having to deal with my own anger among a few other things. I always think it's sad when a person hasn't been able to sort out their issues with drugs, alchohol, anger when they're Mel Gibson's age. It is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.
I'd say being a swell guy 99% makes you a good guy. I wish I was a swell guy 99% of the time. Shit that flies out of your mouth when you're in the 1% area just isn't enough for me to think he's bad.
Honestly though it's just how I feel, and I can see things your way. If I felt differently I could make just a good a point from your perspective. They're all good points...

[IronMonkey]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Exactly.

Most everybody has some friends who will stick up for them. That's essentially meaningless. He might be a swell guy 99% of the time, but if you act like this in public, repeatedly, you have serious problems and need to have them addressed.

A "Mel's my pal" note from Jodie Foster doesn't absolve him (and since he thinks his own wife is going to Hell, I do have to wonder where he thinks Jodie's heading.)

You are allowing faulty perception by thnking that Mel is REPEATEDLY in public blowing his stack.

For that to be true, he would have had to been in public TWICE over the last several months..once when he was drunk and again at this conference. This is untrue howver and you stating he is doing this REPEATEDLY is incorrect. Faulty perception causes this because we dont hear about all the dozens and hundreds of times he has been in public and NOTHING has been reported because nothing has happened.. see how that works? ;)

But haters of the guy will refuse to acknowledge this faulty perception occurence...and only see and believe what they wish. Whether its Gibson, the news itself, politics, crime, etc...if we got 2 days of reports that the fire department had to rescue cats from trees, the same would apply, people would believe that nothing but cats are being rescued from tress ALL OVER THE PLACE and not look at as a random coincidence the two incidents occurred just two days apart.

[Buck Turgidson]

So, basically this amounts to "But, your honor, look how many banks I didn't rob!"?

Two screaming fits of profane abuse in public constitutes "repeatedly", for me.

This doesn't even take into account that charming drunken interview he gave in the early 90's which saw him climbing up on his seat and pointing at his ass, and his many other vile, absurd public pronouncements over the years.

I know anybody can make a run at defending almost anything, but this is really straining credulity, now.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by IronMonkey
But haters of the guy will refuse to acknowledge this faulty perception occurence...and only see and believe what they wish.

Funny. You could say the exact same thing about defenders of Gibson. They refuse to acknowledge that there's even a possibility the man is an anti-Semite, among other things. It reminds me of something Chris Rock said about Michael Richards. People kept asking him if he thought that Richards is a racist. Rock sort of laughed incredulously and replied, "The man yelled nigger repeatedly in public. What else does he have to do before you call him racist?" Gibson, believed by many to be an anti-Semite, went on an anti-Semitic tirade. What else does he have to do to be considered an anti-Semite?

[Buck Turgidson]

Going back to the Passion debate, a whole bunch of people here just swore up and down that there was absolutely no way that Mel Gibson was any sort of anti-Semite or was anti-Gay in any way, shape or form. That's what made his unhinged Protocols of the Elders of Zion inspired stream of consciousness monologue after his drunk driving arrest so satisfying. I couldn't have wished for any more perfect a demonstration of just what kind of man he really is.

These days, we don't get too many out and out denials of his anti-Semitism. His defenders have adopted a regimen of 12 step speak and casting blame at every other miscreant under the sun, instead.

[Danger^Cart]

.

[Silverload]

I personally think this whole hating on Mel Gibson thing has become laughably ridiculous.

An angry drunken guy talked shit to his arresting officers, whoopee-fucking-do. That never happens, right?

Mel Gibson has problems. So what? I should hate him for it? I love his movies, I don’t know who the fuck the man is, but the actor and director kick ass. And unless Gibson does some vile act (and no, being politically incorrect in public is not a vile act) then I don’t give two shits about his beliefs no matter how strongly I disagree and disapprove.

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Seriously, if Gibson fucked and murdered a small child on film and was convicted for it in a court of law, there'd be people defending him here while accusing others of being too harsh on him.

Everyone acts like that’s exactly what he has done.

[MadsenOMC]

Silverload, I think it is incredibly pathetic and sad and disturbing that you refer to an anti-Semitic tirade as "an angry drunken guy talked shit to his arresting officers." What he did is a vile act. It was not merely being politically incorrect in public. Do you need a history lesson? He didn't tell the officer to fuck off. He went on an anti-Semitic tirade! It's not just that Gibson has problems like everyone else. Like I said, tons of people struggle with alcohol and if that's all it was, no big deal. But that's not all it was. It is not even laughable that someone so easily dismisses anti-Semitism. It's really fucked up.

[Shockwave]

What is it about Gibson threads that they always end in name calling and get shut down?:p

[Buck Turgidson]

Because too many people can't face what he is.

[Silverload]

I don’t need a history lesson. History is full of bad shit that will always haunt us, but the Jewish faith is not the only religion to be prosecuted against and suffer hardship. In fact Christians suffered the first holocaust of the 20th century, yet no one thinks twice about making anti-Christian remarks. And no one considers those remarks to be “vile”, some even encourage it. When it comes to hatred toward religion there is a very big bias on what is considered evil and what’s simply considered the right to believe whatever you want. If Gibson had said Christians are responsible for all the wars, there would be people posting here in agreement.

Hating people is not a vile act, it’s morally wrong but not vile. What Roman Polanski did was a vile act, drugging and raping a 13 year old girl is a vile act, and Gibson’s drunken rant doesn’t even begin to come close. Yet, Polanski is a critical darling loved my many film buffs. We live in a fucked up world, one where priorities are based on political correctness.

And MadsenOMC, you seriously need to read the rules of this forum, and stop hating on those you don’t agree with. :(

[Buck Turgidson]

Considering that I always try to avoid talking about politics here, and there has been a lot of discussion lately over our rules and the policy of not attacking people, I think it might be time for me to absent myself from this thread.

I would like to point out that shoehorning a specific genocide attempt against the Armenians (which is what I believe was referred to) into something involving all Christians is just plain bizarre.

Giving Gibson some kind of pass because you can name some other miscreant (I mentioned this before) is not convincing, either. Neither is this ludicrous repeated motif that somehow holding racists responsible for their public pronouncements is just PC run wild.

(Can anybody else remember when that term actually meant something, instead of being a catchall claim by some people to have the right to be as publicly racist as they wanted, with no fear of consequence?)

[Silverload]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
I would like to point out that shoehorning a specific genocide attempt against the Armenians (which is what I believe was referred to) into something involving all Christians is just plain bizarre.

Why? That’s like saying the Jewish holocaust didn’t involve all Jews. The Armenian genocide was an assault on Christianity, and did directly involve many other Christians.

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Giving Gibson some kind of pass because you can name some other miscreant (I mentioned this before) is not convincing, either. Neither is this ludicrous repeated motif that somehow holding racists responsible for their public pronouncements is just PC run wild.


I’m not apologizing for what Gibson did. Instead trying to point out the double standards. If Gibson had said the same thing about Christianity, no one would care. Because he said it about Judaism it was elevated from asshole-ish comment into the equivalent of an appalling crime. That’s what I find to be ridiculous.

[Buck Turgidson]

The Nazis efforts didn't involve only Jews. Jews were first and foremost, but they made a concerted effort to physically eradicate several groups of people they hated.

Criticizing Christianity (or Judiasm or Islam, for that matter), isn't the same thing as attacking Christians themselves. Gibson hasn't simply been critical of Judiasm, he's contemptuous of Jews, which is a whole different thing altogether.

Actually, if you want to take a close look at it, Gibson and that breakaway whackjob sect his father runs, attack almost every Christian denomination out there, along with everyone else other than themselves. So by your standard, he's anti-Roman Catholic (his father was bitter in his personal mockery of John Paul II, among many other figures), not to mention every Protestant or Eastern Orthodox denomination.

[Preston_79]

Gibson's evil becuase:

To those that don't like the man, those that think he's a piece of shit or worse why don't you list the things he's done wrong. I'll start with listing his drunk driving arrest.
1. He was drunk driving
2. Said "Jews are responsible for all the worlds problems" while drunk, anything else?
3. Said "Sugar tits" to a female officer
4. Tells a women to "fuck off" when she arguably deserved it
5. Has some interview where he climbs on a chair and points to his ass in the 90's.....haven't seen it myself, but let's just say it happened.

What else? Let's add to this list. If you want us to think he's as bad as some of you say add what you have.

I'm not making light of the things he's done wrong, I'm just still not convinced he's a bad person, so prove me wrong. What about the other 363 days a year he doesn't make news? Does it matter what he does those days or just the two he made news for fucking up?

[Buck Turgidson]

He has a long public track record of anti-Semitic statements and attitudes, along with an equally lengthy list of immature, anti-social public behavior. Anyone seriously interested in these facts can do a Google search and they'll find a wealth of evidence.

He's not public enemy number one or anything (anyone who has been here a while knows I'm practically tickling his belly compared to how I react when John Landis' name comes up), but he is a racist, rude and rather dim, prick. I think the record is manifestly clear on that and even if he was a good director, (which he isn't), all of that would still be true.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
anyone who has been here a while knows I'm practically tickling his belly compared to how I react when John Landis' name comes up


What did John Landis say?

[Scarfather]

Originally posted by therealjohng
What did John Landis say?

He kept yelling "Lower!" until it cost the lives of three innocent people, two being children.

[Buck Turgidson]

Crude, but essentially accurate. I still love Animal House, but he should be in Pelican Bay right now.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by Scarfather
He kept yelling "Lower!" until it cost the lives of three innocent people, two being children.


I take it you are referring to the whole Vic Morrow debacle?


EDIT*****
What are the details of that accident? I've heard shit, but never the whole shebang.

[thedudeman69]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Silverload, I think it is incredibly pathetic and sad and disturbing that you refer to an anti-Semitic tirade as "an angry drunken guy talked shit to his arresting officers." What he did is a vile act. It was not merely being politically incorrect in public. Do you need a history lesson? He didn't tell the officer to fuck off. He went on an anti-Semitic tirade! It's not just that Gibson has problems like everyone else. Like I said, tons of people struggle with alcohol and if that's all it was, no big deal. But that's not all it was. It is not even laughable that someone so easily dismisses anti-Semitism. It's really fucked up.

Me, I don't have a problem with the Jewish people, they bring some damn good movies to the table. You act like Gibson was sober and that he purposely said all those things just because he was "anti semitic". I don't think that is the case, because Alchol was a factor in the ranting, but, never less Gibson does do some weird things, and he says some weird things like he compared Apocolypto to the Iraq War/Iraq, which I thought was strange, Also, you are placing fucking I don't know, maybe 5-10 years of one of the most brutal wars that the world has seen, where millions of casualties and soldiers lives were lost, that wives lost their husbands, that you are PLACING that HOLOCAUST entirely on GIBSON'S SHOULDERS just because he said some bad things about the Jewish. Also, how do you know some of the officers were Jewish? maybe some of them were atheist? I mean, that is the majority of holywood these days. Also, you ACT like that Gibson has been the only one doing the anti semitic shtick on others. There has to be other actors that have to be doing the same thing, but not getting the public attention that he is getting because he did a movie that was supposedly "anti semitic" and the press jumps on his ass about it because he made a shit load of money on it. I find the hating of Gibson stupid and ridiculous.

[Buck Turgidson]

I think it might be time for our lovely and talented Moderator to close this thread.

[bigred760]

I find it remarkable how one person can be judged for five minutes of drunkenness on a videocamera as "evil." Is he perfect? No. Did he apologize for it? Yes. Did he seek help? Yes. I don't know the man well enough to judge him solely on a drunken rant in which he called somebody "sugar tits." That was a few minutes that everybody witnessed on videotape. I've never met him or spent time with him. I'm not saying he's a saint; he's pretty freakin' stupid for getting drunk and getting behind the wheel, but like I said - he sought help for that, which is commendable. I don't know what he's like 364 days a year; so judging a person without knowing him is a bit crude. I'll stick to judging his directing, acting, and his movies overall.

[Buck Turgidson]

Did Mel Gibson just show up on Earth that night? Is this some Phillip K. Dick scenario where only a few of us have memories of his past and everything he's done, said and been associated with?

[bigred760]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
Did Mel Gibson just show up on Earth that night? Is this some Phillip K. Dick scenario where only a few of us have memories of his past and everything he's done, said and been associated with?

No, but for the most part, everybody's judging him based on that one night.

[Buck Turgidson]

Since it's about 22-3 in here in Gibson's favor, I wouldn't say "everybody."

The drunk driving arrest and subsequent verbal barrage of filth is just part of a large mosaic. The people who've agreed with me in this thread (Beeblebrox and MadsenOMC) know the same history that I do for this dope and react accordingly.

Most everybody else acts like this is something brand new, which it most assuredly is not. It's been well known what this guy is for a long time. The only thing that changed the night of his drunken tirade is that it became undeniable for anyone wanting to maintain any honesty.

Besides which, that's largely ancillary to this question, which was originally about how this guy was a rude lout with no idea how to act in public, much more than his scummy opinions.

[MadsenOMC]

Oh wow Gibson went to celebrity rehab and offered a half-hearted apology. Let's give the man a fucking medal!

Some of you are pulling shit out of your ass. I am not acting like Gibson is the only one acting like an anti-Semite. This is a thread about Mel Gibson, not anti-Semitism in the world today. And now the majority of Hollywood is Atheist? Is there a study on that, and what in the fuck does it have to do with the price of tea in China?

Like I said before, I find it disturbing that so many of you shrug off what he did so casually and blame it on alcohol. Oh, how convenient. I think I'll go kill somebody and blame it on alcohol. It wouldn't really be my fault then. Gibson did not magically turn into an anti-Semite because he had one too many cocktails people. Jesus H. Christ. Stop using the alcohol as a scapegoat. What happened to personal accountability?

Like the great Buck Turgidson has said, we are basing our opinion of Gibson on a great many number of things he has said and done over the years, not just one thing.

[MadsenOMC]

I thought a handful of specific examples would be helpful to some people:

1.) In a 1992 interview in the Spanish newspaper El País, asked what he thought of gay people, he said, "They take it up the ass." Gibson gestured descriptively, continuing, "This is only for taking a shit." When the interviewer recalled that Gibson previously had expressed fear that people would think he is gay because he's an actor, Gibson replied, "Do I sound like a homosexual? Do I talk like them? Do I move like them? I think not." In the Playboy interview, he responded to GLAAD's protests over his comment with "I'll apologize when hell freezes over. They can fuck off".

2.) Speaking of Playboy, in that 1995 interview on the subject of why women shouldn't be allowed to be priests.
Gibson: Women are just different. Their sensibilities are different.
Playboy: Any examples?
Gibson: I had a female business partner once. Didn't work.
Playboy: Why not?
Gibson: She was a c---.
Gibson went on to add: "Feminists don't like me, and I don't like them. I don't get their point."

3.) He didn't sound especially Christian when he told The New Yorker, shortly after New York Times writer Frank Rich wrote a column raising questions about The Passion of the Christ, "I want to kill him. I want his intestines on a stick. . . . I want to kill his dog."

4.) He admits that heaven is open to people of many faiths and denominations but insists that the route there will be much faster for Catholics -- all while sitting next to the Jewish actress who plays Mary in his movie (During a POTC interview). Gibson also reportedly said that his wife - a non-Catholic - would go to hell. Alas, he wasn't joking.

As Christopher Kelly of The Fort-Worth Star Telegram says, You can't invoke the Holy Spirit, you can't hold your film up as the purest and most honest express of Jesus Christ's story -- and then not back it up with decent words, generous actions.

5.) "The thing with him [my father] was that he was talking about numbers. I mean when the war was over they said it was 12 million. Then it was six. Now it's four. I mean it's that kind of numbers game." Readers Digest 2004[2]

6.) The already well-documented accusations of anti-Semitism in TPOTC and the drunk driving/anti-Semitic tirade of last summer.

-If it was limited to one incident, I'm sure we wouldn't be talking about Gibson in this manner right now. But it's not one incident. We're talking about a number of them over the course of 15+ years. Taken collectively, I don't know how one could ignore them and think it no big deal.

[Preston_79]

Okay....Mel's an anti-semite, is disgusted by gay people, doesn't like femanists. While he probably wouldn't make my list of friends it's just not enough for me to say he's a bad person "WHAT?!". Some of you all act like it's a no brainer, like saying those things makes you evil, end of story. That's where we'll probably never agree. I don't think those acts make you a bad person. He's just a person who's failth and values I don't agree with. Let me know when he's really harmed someone and not just offended people.

[MadsenOMC]

That's cool Preston. We can just agree to disagree. No harm, no foul. However, I would say that things he has said and done have harmed people, not merely offended them. You can harm people without actually physically doing something to them.

[Lynn7]

When it comes right down to it, Gibson is no different than millions of other people who are judgemental and opinionated about everyone else. It is simply that the people he is striking out at happen to be very PC right now and off limits to say anything against (rightfully so but there are others who are not PC and it is open season on!).

But there are tons of people who say bad things about everyone be it Polish, Greek, Irish, Italian, Africans, Germans, Peurto Ricans, Mexicans etc.Everyone is guilty of being judgmental and hateful (although we all pretend to be different) and that is the bottom line. Gibson himself was reviled for making a movie on Christ (the way the story is portrayed in the Bible). So even his critics are guilty of being hateful.

[MadsenOMC]

Of course millions of other people are guilty of being hateful Lynn. But this is a thread about Mel Gibson, not the entire human race. When you say people he is striking out at, who do you mean? Jews? Hollywood? Women? Gay people? People who are not as Catholic as he is?

[Lynn7]

I am talking about Gibson- he has spouted off about groups of people- and so have many others. He is no more evil than everyone else. And just recently we have seen the guy from Grey's Anatomy saying hateful things and also Michael Richards too. And if we are being honest we have all said derogatory things about groups of people. It has just become sport to tear this guy apart and this guy has had an ongoing battle with alcoholism.

The problem is that the media raises up people from Hollywood as heroes when in actuality they are no better than anyone else. They give attention and credence to their remarks when many times these very people are just speaking off the tops of their heads with no more authority to speak on topics than the average man.

It is fun to discuss the nutty things they say and do (as we do here on the BB) but I get uneasy when it is more acceptable to condemn one man over another just cause one happens to be popular at the time and the other is not. It just seems like Gibson has somehow become considered sub human since he dared to make the movie the Passion. That movie followed the bible account and yet he was declared an anti-Semite. When he said those things about the Jews when he was drunk it was like -SEE! He really WAS an anti-Semite! Well, maybe he is but the movie was not.

[MadsenOMC]

The actor from Grey's Anatomy and Michael Richards were criticized as well. Neither was given a free pass. I am astounded that people like you Lynn continue to use alcohol as a scapegoat for Gibson's tirade. Does alcohol excuse all such actions? Where do you draw the line on what alcohol can and can't be used as a scapegoat for? Like I said, it isn't the alcohol his critics have a problem with. Plenty of people struggle with alcohol. It is the long list of things he has said over the course of many years.

Also, I still don't know what your previous PC comment was all about.

[echo_bravo]

I think Madsen is one of those posters that ALWAYS has to have the last word.:D

With that being said, I agree that Gibson has said some bad things. He seems to be a tortured soul with many issues that is trying to get better. He seems like an interesting fella and is a great director.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by echo_bravo
I think Madsen is one of those posters that ALWAYS has to have the last word.:D


When the discussion itself and/or topic interests me enough, I suppose it is possible that the above statement is true. :) However, I never say to myself, "OK damn it I need to get the last word here no matter what." Just for the record.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Lynn7
That movie followed the bible account and yet he was declared an anti-Semite. That's about the 10th time you've written that, or words to the same effect. And for the 10th time, I will point out that he also used that demento nun's anti-Semitic screed (I looked up the particulars of that and linked it up during one of the debates over The Passion, so it's in the archives somewhere), and that just because you follow the New Testament chronolgy, it doesn't mean that you can't do it in an anti-Semitic fashion. The depiction of the elders and their actions and the rest of the Jews in Jerusalem at the time is a matter of interpretation and Gibson interpreted it in the worst possible (ahistorical) manner.

The pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic Church that Hutton Gibson is trying to recreate was officially infested with a really ugly strain of anti-Jewish bigotry, going back for many centuries. This is all about context. I really wish some of you people would look deeper into these issues.

[Preston_79]

I don't think alcohol means you get off the hook, but alcohol does impair judgment. I've said stuff drunk that I didn't mean and regretted it later. Alcohol wasn't an excuse because I didn't have to drink as much as I did and I know that when I'm shit faced I act like a different person. It's not like I get drunk and then you see the real me.

[MadsenOMC]

I agree that alcohol impairs one's judgment, but I do not think that it turns one into a different person. Some believe that the real person is revealed when intoxicated. Gibson was not that much over the legal limit either. Using alcohol as a scapegoat shifts the responsibility from where it belongs, which is the individual.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by Buck Turgidson
That's about the 10th time you've written that, or words to the same effect. And for the 10th time, I will point out that he also used that demento nun's anti-Semitic screed (I looked up the particulars of that and linked it up during one of the debates over The Passion, so it's in the archives somewhere), and that just because you follow the New Testament chronolgy, it doesn't mean that you can't do it in an anti-Semitic fashion. The depiction of the elders and their actions and the rest of the Jews in Jerusalem at the time is a matter of interpretation and Gibson interpreted it in the worst possible (ahistorical) manner.

The pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic Church that Hutton Gibson is trying to recreate was officially infested with a really ugly strain of anti-Jewish bigotry, going back for many centuries. This is all about context. I really wish some of you people would look deeper into these issues.

I read the Bible all the time and the elders with the exception of one or a few were out to get Jesus and hated him. He was a threat to them. He criticized them and called them hypocirites and called them out on their unfair treatment of the people. They wanted him dead.

I assure you that the Passion follows the Bible the way it was written and if anything. he did not paint those particular people harshly enough! They were pretty bad in what they did and orchestrated. The Jewish people were also not treated incorrectly in the movie. He had followers and he had detractors. More people turned against him at the end and that movie was about his last few days of life so..... But if not for the Jews there would be no Christianity. It was the Jews who God chose to send the messiah to and it was the Jews who brought Christianity to the world. And the Jews will always be God's people. He will never forsake them.

If Gibson has some beleifs that are strange based on that nun you mention, then it was not evident in the movie that I could see. I am a pretty by the book Christian and I can't think of anything in that movie that was off. Name something and I am pretty sure I can show you the passage that corresponds to the part in the movie with a few exceptions that are minor.

I'm not saying Gibson is a great and wonderful man. I don't know him. I like some of his movies. I don't like others. I don't approve of a lot of the things he has said. But I just think he gets bashed a lot for making that movie and that is not a good reason.

And as far as saying things when you are drunk we are all capable of saying terrible things. Anyone who thinks he is not capable of spouting hateful things is deluding himself. WAsn't it Michael Richards who said he couldn't beleive he said the things he did and that he had never considered himself to be racist and no one could ever remember him saying racial things? And he wasn't even drunk- he was just mad! Gibson was drunk and he was mad at being caught drunk driving and probably knew the gig was up with his wife and with the hiding of his alcoholic lapse.

I do agree that he is probably a troubled man and he should spend less time in Hollywood where people eat you and spit you out.

[MadsenOMC]

Yes big mean Hollywood has been so unfair to Mel Gibson. He is just another victim of Hollywood. What a crock of shit.

Lynn, people's criticisms of Gibson are about a hell of a lot more than just TPOTC. By the way, the Bible is open to interpretation right? And Mel definitely added his own take on things in TPOTC. Not every single frame of the movie is directly taken from the Bible. It's not like you are a biblical scholar who can refute with facts and evidence every single disagreement that someone might have with you about the movie.

Michael Richards is a racist. Plain and simple. He has problems of his own.

Regarding the alcohol, again, where do you draw the line on what it excuses? I have never gone on a hateful tirade while drunk. What has happened to personal accountability Lynn? Why should alcohol be a scapegoat for what he said? Do you think alcohol somehow magically caused Gibson to go on an anti-Semitic tirade especially considering so many have accused him of being an anti-Semite?

This isn't about being Christian and forgiving Lynn, so don't even pretend it is. You like Gibson because he made a Jesus movie you love and he isn't a liberal. That causes you to stick up for him more.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Do you think alcohol somehow magically caused Gibson to go on an anti-Semitic tirade


Alcohol once made me bang a very ugly chick I would have never banged had I not been drinking. It might have been an ugly man. I dont know. Point is alcohol does make you do things you normally wouldnt do.


*please not that I am not standing up for Gibsons racist rant or anyone elses, just pointing out I might have banged a tranny?*

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
Alcohol once made me bang a very ugly chick I would have never banged had I not been drinking. It might have been an ugly man. I dont know. Point is alcohol does make you do things you normally wouldnt do.


Causing someone to take someone home they might regret in the morning and causing someone to go on an anti-Semitic tirade are two very, very, very different things. And the alcohol certainly didn't make you bang her, just like it didn't make Gibson say those things. You wanted to get laid. He hates Jews. Pretty simple.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
He hates Jews.


One thing though, if he comes out and just flat our admits it, that he hates Jews and has no regrets about it, would you finally be happy and just move on. Never attending another of his movies or anything he has anything he has to do with?


He did apologize for what he did, hating Jews or not, he apologized. What would he have to do to make it right by you since you wont let it go? Every time his name is mentioned you bring up the rant that happened months ago. Fuck man, OJ Simpson killed people and you dont bring that up. Mel Gibson got drunk and made a major mistake, then apologized. What else do you want him to do for you specifically to get you over it? Or do you just hold a grudge that never ends?

[IronMonkey]

I guess we can all call it a day because Madson has spoken that Mel hates Jews. Screw the fact that many of Gibsons JEWISH FRIENDS say he never displayed any hatred toward them - A message board person with a grudge and who doesnt even know Mel Gibson has spoken.

Oh and heres the ICONS to go with my statement -

:rolleyes:

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
One thing though, if he comes out and just flat our admits it, that he hates Jews and has no regrets about it, would you finally be happy and just move on. Never attending another of his movies or anything he has anything he has to do with?

He did apologize for what he did, hating Jews or not, he apologized. What would he have to do to make it right by you since you wont let it go? Every time his name is mentioned you bring up the rant that happened months ago. Fuck man, OJ Simpson killed people and you dont bring that up. Mel Gibson got drunk and made a major mistake, then apologized. What else do you want him to do for you specifically to get you over it? Or do you just hold a grudge that never ends?

I did not start this thread Mentiroso. Like you I have been sharing my opinion on Gibson. Why would I mention O.J. here? This is not about him. This is about Mel Gibson. Also, this is not just about Gibson's rant last summer. Like I have repeatedly said, it is about numerous things he has said over the last 15+ years. I have also said that I am not calling for a boycott of his movies. I separate the art from the artist.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by IronMonkey
I guess we can all call it a day because Madson has spoken that Mel hates Jews. Screw the fact that many of Gibsons JEWISH FRIENDS say he never displayed any hatred toward them - A message board person with a grudge and who doesnt even know Mel Gibson has spoken.

Oh and heres the ICONS to go with my statement -

:rolleyes:

You can't even spell my name right. At least I come here and support what I am saying. You make a sarcastic comment or insult someone, throw in a little eye-rolling and then leave. Wow. You should be so proud of yourself. You are really contributing to the discussion. Not that I expect anything else from you.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
I did not start this thread Mentiroso.

I know you didnt, never accused you of that. You do however always bring up him being drunk and screaming at officers and what not even though this thread has nothing to do with that.

Mel tells a lady to fuck off

Madsens reply - He hates jews, dont forget that! ever!


Now I am of course being a little sarcastic and having fun with it by misquoting you but you get the point. Who cares. This thread is about Mel and Mayans, not jews. I would have thought you would have let it go.

[MadsenOMC]

I brought up a series of things that Gibson has said over the years in addition to his latest outburst at the university event. I didn't just mention the arrest last summer. If you would state things accurately, fine, but you're not. My first post doesn't even mention the arrest, or did you overlook that?

[IronMonkey]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
You can't even spell my name right. At least I come here and support what I am saying. You make a sarcastic comment or insult someone, throw in a little eye-rolling and then leave. Wow. You should be so proud of yourself. You are really contributing to the discussion. Not that I expect anything else from you.

Not that I cant spell, I didnt feel like doing an edit. And other Jewish celebs who know GIbson is more of a solid support then what you say here as someone who doesnt know the man. I think you realize this but are now too far gone in your defense of this nonsense to admit otherwise. ;)

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
I brought up a series of things that Gibson has said over the years in addition to his latest outburst at the university event. I didn't just mention the arrest last summer. If you would state things accurately, fine, but you're not. My first post doesn't even mention the arrest, or did you overlook that?


No but it always comes back to is drunken arrest. To be honest with you I havent heard much of anything anti-semitic from him besides this one rant. I have heard rumors. Can you provide other instances where he has done/said things anti-semitic? I still dont see how his hating Jews or not has anything to do with mayans?

[MadsenOMC]

When I mentioned his arrest last summer I was responding to what someone else asked me. I did not bring it up, yet you insist that I did. Other evidence of his anti-Semitism? How about TPOTC. Or refusing to criticize or dismiss his father's comments on the Holocaust, even calling it a numbers game in a Reader's Digest interview. Really, though, doesn't the rant speak for itself? I'm amazed at how easily people like you dismiss the rant, as if it's no big deal. I happen to think anti-Semitism is a big deal.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by IronMonkey
Not that I cant spell, I didnt feel like doing an edit. And other Jewish celebs who know GIbson is more of a solid support then what you say here as someone who doesnt know the man. I think you realize this but are now too far gone in your defense of this nonsense to admit otherwise. ;)

I'm curious IronMoney. Who are these Jewish celebs you speak of? Can you provide links to their comments? I haven't read these.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
How about TPOTC.


How the fuck is that anti-Semitism?

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
I happen to think anti-Semitism is a big deal.

Never said it wasnt a big deal. But once again, he apologized for it. Basically what I am getting from you, from your posts and how you make your statement is that you will never actually forgive him even though he has asked for it? I could understand if he personally insutled you or maybe your mother or something but he made a broad racist statement aimed at no one person in particular. A group. From what I read after it happened and after he apologized, he was forgiven by many Jews. So why even talk about it now? You say he has made remarks in the past in RD and other sources but isnt that his right to believe and think anyway he wants? He has since apologized and stated that is not how he truly thinks or feels. He was punished enough I feel so let it go.

[MadsenOMC]

Of course Gibson is free to believe whatever he wants to believe. Like I said before, I did not bring up the arrest last summer. OK? Someone asked me a direct question and I responded, so get mad at them for bringing it up. Also, I already said I can and do separate the art from the artist. I already said I will see his next movie if I think it looks good (I paid to see Apocalypto in theaters and wrote a mildly positive review of it here). My opinion of Gibson has to do with all of the comments he had made over the years, not just last summer's rant. But again, I am able to separate the art from the artist.

[MadsenOMC]

Originally posted by therealjohng
How the fuck is that anti-Semitism?

Seriously? Hasn't this been covered extensively already? Thanks for the comment though.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Of course Gibson is free to believe whatever he wants to believe. Like I said before, I did not bring up the arrest last summer. OK? Someone asked me a direct question and I responded, so get mad at them for bringing it up. Also, I already said I can and do separate the art from the artist. I already said I will see his next movie if I think it looks good (I paid to see Apocalypto in theaters and wrote a mildly positive review of it here). My opinion of Gibson has to do with all of the comments he had made over the years, not just last summer's rant. But again, I am able to separate the art from the artist.


Yeah but did you forgive him?

[MadsenOMC]

Did I forgive him for last summer's rant? IMO his apology was not sincere. I don't think he was really sorry. I think he was sorry that he got caught. I don't think he did all that much after the incident to prove that he was sincerely sorry. Just my opinion.

[therealjohng]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Seriously? Hasn't this been covered extensively already? Thanks for the comment though.


Yeah, I'm very serious, I've seen the movie twice and didn't even pick up on any anti jewish remarks or anything of the sort.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Did I forgive him for last summer's rant? IMO his apology was not sincere. I don't think he was really sorry. I think he was sorry that he got caught. I don't think he did all that much after the incident to prove that he was sincerely sorry. Just my opinion.



Well since you are judging him now (which is a sin if you believe in the Bible) what is it going to take for him to get your forgiveness?

[MadsenOMC]

Sorry but I don't really believe in the bible. That is a good question though. I think Gibson would be more proactive if he was truly sorry and wanted to change his ways. I think celebrities often apologize because they think they have to, or their agent or publicist tells them to. I get that feeling here with Mel. But that's his business. He can believe whatever he wants to. I can't remember who said "I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it," or something along those lines. I believe that. And then I can come here and share my opinions about it whatever was said. :)

[Preston_79]

I'm not a Christian and I have ZERO interest in ever seeing the Passion. I still think everything Gibson's done is forgiveable. He apologized and I'm not concerned with how sincere it was. Seemed as sincere as one would expect from a person who's hand was caught in the cookie jar. I think everyone that gets caught doing something wrong is sorry they got caught, you're right there, but we essentailly force them to apologize for it, so it seems wrong to do that and then say it's bull shit. I treat Gibson like anyone else who fucks up. I take their apology for what it's worth and don't really concern myself with them anymore especially since he's a complete stranger to me.

[MadsenOMC]

It is a mistake to assume that I am losing sleep over this. I enjoy the discussion and everything, and I have strong opinions about it, but I certainly don't lose any sleep over whether or not Mel Gibson is an anti-Semite. I wish he had just said, "Yes, I am an anti-Semite, and that is my business." It is unfortunate that they are basically forced to apologize and enter some celebrity rehab facility or meet with leaders of whichever community they offended.

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
I can't remember who said "I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it," or something along those lines. That's usually attributed to Voltaire, although some scholars think it's apocryphal.

I agree with the sentiment and your endorsement of it. He can think anything he wants, but he can't claim not to be an anti-Semite and an intolerant, bigoted clod, because he proves he is with nearly his every uttered word.

His apology, such as it was, was completely insincere. That's my opinion, based on my life experience and knowledge of human nature. Some of you act like the simple words "I'm sorry", no matter what, constitute a free pass. They don't and should not.

As Madsen says, ultimately it's no big deal to me, but when he acts like an asshole in public and the general reaction here is, essentially, "Good for him, tell that bitch off!!", I'm going to respond and try to put him and his actions in some kind of context, whether anyone wants to listen or not.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Yes big mean Hollywood has been so unfair to Mel Gibson. He is just another victim of Hollywood. What a crock of shit.

Lynn, people's criticisms of Gibson are about a hell of a lot more than just TPOTC. By the way, the Bible is open to interpretation right? And Mel definitely added his own take on things in TPOTC. Not every single frame of the movie is directly taken from the Bible. It's not like you are a biblical scholar who can refute with facts and evidence every single disagreement that someone might have with you about the movie.

Michael Richards is a racist. Plain and simple. He has problems of his own.

Regarding the alcohol, again, where do you draw the line on what it excuses? I have never gone on a hateful tirade while drunk. What has happened to personal accountability Lynn? Why should alcohol be a scapegoat for what he said? Do you think alcohol somehow magically caused Gibson to go on an anti-Semitic tirade especially considering so many have accused him of being an anti-Semite?

This isn't about being Christian and forgiving Lynn, so don't even pretend it is. You like Gibson because he made a Jesus movie you love and he isn't a liberal. That causes you to stick up for him more.

I am not excusing behavior but I do know that alcohol when drunk in excess can cause people to say or do things they would never ordinarily say or do because your brain keeps your mouth in check. You might think your girl friend's best friend is a meddler but you really like her despite that but when you are drunk you might say that you think she is a meddler and she get mad. When you are sober you feel like what did I say?!

Mel probably has anti-Jewish thoughts since his dad has probably raised Mel with them so he has the tape playing. But has Mel hurt Jews? He has worked with them and has not held them back. He said he was sorry for what he said.

I am not a bible scholar but I do read and study the Bible so I know what I am talking about when it comes to certain things. As far as that movie goes it was not anti-semetic to present the temple leaders as acting in an evil way. It is what the Bible actually says. I will set the verses that say this apart from the rest;


Matthew Chapter 26

Matthew 26 - Study This Chapter

1 When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples, 2 "As you know, the Passover is two days away--and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified." 3 Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, 4 and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. 5 "But not during the Feast," they said, "or there may be a riot among the people."
_______________________________________________



6 While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, 7 a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table. 8 When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. 9 "This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor." 10 Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 11 The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. 12 When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. 13 I tell you the truth, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her."


__________________________________________________ __
14 Then one of the Twelve--the one called Judas Iscariot--went to the chief priests 15 and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16 From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over.
__________________________________________________ __




17 On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?" 18 He replied, "Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, 'The Teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house.'" 19 So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them and prepared the Passover. 20 When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve.

________________________________________________
21 And while they were eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me." 22 They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, "Surely not I, Lord?" 23 Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born." 25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?" Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."
__________________________________________________ ___



26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." 27 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom." 30 When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

31 Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.' 32 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee." 33 Peter replied, "Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will." 34 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times." 35 But Peter declared, "Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you." And all the other disciples said the same.

36 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 37 He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38 Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me." 39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." 40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter. 41 "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak." 42 He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done." 43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing. 45 Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise, let us go! Here comes my betrayer!"

__________________________________________________
47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him." 49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him. 50 Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for." Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. 52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?" 55 At that time Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

57 Those who had arrested Jesus took him to Caiaphas, the high priest, where the teachers of the law and the elders had assembled. 58 But Peter followed him at a distance, right up to the courtyard of the high priest. He entered and sat down with the guards to see the outcome. 59 The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death. 60 But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward. Finally two came forward 61 and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.'" 62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." 64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." 65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66 What do you think?" "He is worthy of death," they answered. 67 Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him 68 and said, "Prophesy to us, Christ. Who hit you?"
__________________________________________________ _____




69 Now Peter was sitting out in the courtyard, and a servant girl came to him. "You also were with Jesus of Galilee," she said. 70 But he denied it before them all. "I don't know what you're talking about," he said. 71 Then he went out to the gateway, where another girl saw him and said to the people there, "This fellow was with Jesus of Nazareth." 72 He denied it again, with an oath: "I don't know the man!" 73 After a little while, those standing there went up to Peter and said, "Surely you are one of them, for your accent gives you away." 74 Then he began to call down curses on himself and he swore to them, "I don't know the man!" Immediately a rooster crowed. 75 Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken: "Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times." And he went outside and wept bitterly.




________________________________________________


So the Bible uses the word "sly" says they did not want to strike at him at a certain time cause the people would be angry, and then hit at him under cover of darkness and used false witnesses against him. It is pretty much as Gibson portrayed it in his film. Since the entire Bible is about the Jews if some Jews are acting in a bad way it is not anti-semitic to portray them like that. Just like in the movie the 10 Commandments some Jews acted bad when right after all the miracles God did including parting the sea for them to cross, the people were building a golden idol shortly afterwards. It is not anti-semitic to say so. It is in the Biblical account.

[Preston_79]

Good gried Lynn7....you actually expect me to read any of that? Bible passages have nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Sorry.

[therealjohng]

Yay for going off topic!

[Buck Turgidson]

Originally posted by Lynn7
Since the entire Bible is about the Jews if some Jews are acting in a bad way it is not anti-semitic to portray them like that. There is a long, ugly history of Christian churches, starting with the one that had a monopoly on Western Christianity for over a millennia, the Roman Catholic Church, misusing aspects of the New Testament account to excuse and justify anti-Semitic attitudes and practices.

This is not an interpretation of mine, it's a matter of accepted historical fact. If you look this up and do a little research on the matter, I think you would probably better understand where the people who see all the old hallmarks of this in Gibson's imagery are coming from in this debate.

[Mentiroso]

WAY OFF TOPIC SOOOOOOOOOO


http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/6823/a52c3272d6edfe8132961ddrl1.gif

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by Mentiroso
WAY OFF TOPIC SOOOOOOOOOO


http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/6823/a52c3272d6edfe8132961ddrl1.gif


Nooooooo!

Gibson debate threads are some of the most entertaining threads that can be posted!

..but then again, i am surprised at how long this one has gone on in a somewhat civil manner.

Someone needs to start randomly swearing.

[MadsenOMC]

Mentiroso I have enjoyed it. It's always better to have a good debate with someone who puts some thought into what they're saying and doesn't always resort to sarcasm, name-calling and little smiley faces. Until next time....

[IronMonkey]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
I'm curious IronMoney. Who are these Jewish celebs you speak of? Can you provide links to their comments? I haven't read these.

If you REALLY were following the story you would already know who they were. I aint backtracking and linking. Google and see if the stories are still there. It was carried by TMZ, Google had links, Celebs were interviewed on EXTRA, ACCESS HOLLYWOOD,ET, they were jewish and non jewish people in defense of Gibson. More defended him (while not making excuses for his actions) then there were the truly hateful non forgiving jews such as Rob WHINER. er. Reiner, whose heart is so black, he said Gibson doesnt deserve forgiveness (much like you keep saying)

I believe you know all this, but you arent gonna allow facts to get in the way of your extreme dislike for the guy. Its so self righteous its kind of crazy. And I am now done with the subject as I think the majority here can sense who is being logical regarding this matter.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by MadsenOMC
Mentiroso I have enjoyed it. It's always better to have a good debate with someone who puts some thought into what they're saying and doesn't always resort to sarcasm, name-calling and little smiley faces. Until next time....


We will meet again in battle some day Madsen! Until then it has been a pleasure :D

[Tuukka]

I find it interesting that if Gibson really hates jews and is an anti-semite, why does he willingly work with jews and has jew friends? For example why did he cast a jew actress to play the female lead in POTC? Maia Morgenstern is both jewish, and a daughter of a Holocaust survivor.

Was that casting choice a part of some Mel's evil anti-semite plan? Or maybe he doesn't actually hate jews, if he casts a jew to play the female lead in his film?

Which option sounds more logical?

If he hates gays, why does he willingly work with gays and has gay friends? If he hates feminists, why does he have feminist friends? For example Jodie Foster is both gay and a feminist, and a long term friend of Gibson.

Isn't there a kind of a contradiction in there?

I'm very interested in hearing a logical explanation to this. Because it doesn't quite make sense to me.

It seems obvious to me that Gibson is a conflicted, haunted man with temper problems. He lacks control, and proper social skills. He can be offending and insulting towards others. He can be an asshole.

That much seems true. But it also seems to me that some people are taking pretty big leaps of illogical logic to paint him as something he is not.

[Mentiroso]

Originally posted by Tuukka

I'm very interested in hearing a logical explanation to this. Because it doesn't quite make sense to me.


Keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer?

[Shockwave]

I never got that quote.

I like to keep my enemies the hell away from me.:)

[Lindsey]

Wow...

This thread is getting out of hand and off topic. Thread closed.