Sen. Hagel: Some Might Seek to Impeach Bush

[Brando @$$ Fat]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/26/politics/main2608082.shtml


Hagel: Some Might Seek to Impeach Bush

WASHINGTON, March 26, 2007

(AP/CBS) A prominent member of the Republican party said President Bush's go-it-alone approach on Iraq amounts to flouting Congress and the public, so angering lawmakers that some consider impeachment an option over his war policy.

Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a frequent critic of the war, stopped short of calling for Mr. Bush's impeachment. But he made clear Sunday that some lawmakers viewed that as an option should Mr. Bush choose to push ahead despite public sentiment against the war.

"Any president who says, I don't care, or I will not respond to what the people of this country are saying about Iraq or anything else, or I don't care what the Congress does, I am going to proceed — if a president really believes that, then there are — what I was pointing out, there are ways to deal with that," said Hagel, who is considering a run for president in the 2008 elections. Mr. Bush cannot run because of term limits.

In the April edition of Esquire magazine, Hagel described Mr. Bush as someone who does not believe he is accountable to anyone. "He's not accountable anymore, which isn't totally true. You can impeach him, and before this is over, you might see calls for his impeachment. I don't know. It depends on how this goes," Hagel told the magazine.

The White House had no immediate reaction Sunday to Hagel's comments.

Meanwhile, the Senate plans to begin debate Monday on a war spending bill that would set a nonbinding goal of March 31, 2008, for the removal of combat troops. One of the Senate's Republican leaders said he believes his party has enough votes to block the measure.

The House of Representatives narrowly passed a bill Friday that would pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan this year but would require that combat troops come home from Iraq before September 2008 — or earlier if the Iraqi government did not meet certain requirements.

The Senate's No. 2 Republican leader, Trent Lott, on Sunday harshly criticized House Democrats for setting an "artificial date" for withdrawing troops from Iraq and said he believes Republicans have enough votes to prevent passage of a similar bill in the Senate.

"We need to put that kind of decision in the hands of our commanders who are there on the ground with the men and women," Lott said. "For Congress to impose an artificial date of any kind is totally irresponsible."

In his weekly radio address Saturday, Mr. Bush accused Democrats of partisanship in the House vote and said it would cut the number of troops below a level that U.S. military commanders say they need. Vice President Dick Cheney also accused Democrats of undermining U.S. troops in Iraq and of sending a message to terrorists that America will retreat in the face of danger.

Sen. Bill Nelson, a Democrat, said the Senate bill seeks to heed the recommendations of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group by setting a goal of withdrawing some troops while leaving others behind to train the Iraqi army for border patrol and other missions.

"That, combined with a very aggressive, diplomatic effort in the region is what we're going to need to have," he said.

Hagel spoke on ABC television's "This Week," Lott appeared on "Fox News Sunday," and Nelson was on CNN's "Late Edition."

[Lynn7]

Yes, everyone should join forces against the evil George W Bush! The terrorists are just misunderstood and we should just try to get along with them. Iran is OK to take British prisoners but Bush should go for sure. :rolleyes:

[Thrizzle]

President Cheney? You shouldnt replace this countries worst president with its most evil vice president. Just build a bunker and ride it out till 2008.

[shoe1985]

It won't happen. He only has a short amount time left in audience, and why would they want to waste money on this? Wait, it will happen because nobody knows what they are doing in office. It is all about trying to outdo the other side instead of doing what is best for this country.

I honestly don't care if Bush is in office. He is a complete joke to the world, and to this country. If you believe anything he says, you need to look at yourself in the mirror a little closer. Maybe it is time to stop pushing our ways onto other countries, and run our own.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Or.....

If Cheney is impeached and kicked out of office for the CIA leak thing the exact same day that Bush is impeached for whatever reason, Nancy Pelosi will become the president since the Speaker of the House is the next in the line of succession. Hillary Clinton may not be the first woman president after all.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
President Cheney? You shouldnt replace this countries worst president with its most evil vice president. Just build a bunker and ride it out till 2008.

Really? I guess you are ready for the proletariat revolution or Great Khalifat. ;)

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by Brando @$$ Fat
Or.....

If Cheney is impeached and kicked out of office for the CIA leak thing the exact same day that Bush is impeached for whatever reason, Nancy Pelosi will become the president since the Speaker of the House is the next in the line of succession. Hillary Clinton may not be the first woman president after all.

Great plot for the horror movie!

Alternative:

Why not to go Moscow's Red Square, open Mausoleum, reanimate the corpse and ask Vladimir Lenin to run the country. He would be much better with the job than the bitch from SF.

[QUENTIN]

Originally posted by Beenthere
Really? I guess you are ready for the proletariat revolution or Great Khalifat. ;)

Jesus fucking Christ Beenthere, I don't know what crazy shit you believe, but it seems all that you do on this forum is state or imply that anyone who doesn't support Bush and his cronies is either a Communist or a Muslim.

That's just not the case. Not at all. You're wrong and have yet to succesfully argue ANYTHING to support that point. So stop it. It adds nothing to the discourse except to make you look radical and silly.

[QUENTIN]

Originally posted by Beenthere
Great plot for the horror movie!

Alternative:

Why not to go Moscow's Red Square, open Mausoleum, reanimate the corpse and ask Vladimir Lenin to run the country. He would be much better with the job than the bitch from SF.

This is another example. Being against Bush doesn't make you a communist! You're worse than fucking Joseph McCarthy. You've literally implied that more than half the schmoes on this forum are communists. The majority of the country and the vast majority of the world are against George W. Bush, I assure you they're not all communists or radicals, he's just a terrible president.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by shoe1985
[B]
He is a complete joke to the world, and to this country./B]

Since when the rest of the world (and I came from that) stopped being a big joke itself? If you consider the rest of the world and its opinions all the time you have to remember one thing: they still need more time to learn how to flash the toilet and wipe their asses. :eek:

P.S. I still love women from the rest of the world.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by QUENTIN
Jesus fucking Christ Beenthere, I don't know what crazy shit you believe, but it seems all that you do on this forum is state or imply that anyone who doesn't support Bush and his cronies is either a Communist or a Muslim.

That's just not the case. Not at all. You're wrong and have yet to succesfully argue ANYTHING to support that point. So stop it. It adds nothing to the discourse except to make you look radical and silly.

I think you are overreacting.

At age of 41 it's kinda difficult to argue with 20+ years olds who are much more radical (IMO) than I've ever been.

Who told you I am a Bush sympathizer? I do not like him for many things. Including some things you probably agree with him.

My point was: if you think Bush and Cheney are the worst you are probably more ready for the bleak future I predict. And I am not saying I agree with the guy's statement but he's entitled to it. I hope there is no double standard here towards my POV or opinions.

P.S. Cynicism was our weapon for many years - we needed it to survive. I use my personal experience and studies here but who doesn't?

[QUENTIN]

Originally posted by Beenthere
I think you are overreacting.

At age of 41 it's kinda difficult to argue with 20+ years olds who are much more radical (IMO) than I've ever been.

Who told you I am a Bush sympathizer? I do not like him for many things. Including some things you probably agree with him.

My point was: if you think Bush and Cheney are the worst you are probably more ready for the bleak future I predict. And I am not saying I agree with the guy's statement but he's entitled to it. I hope there is no double standard here towards my POV or opinions.

P.S. Cynicism was our weapon for many years - we needed it to survive. I use my personal experience and studies here but who doesn't?

All of this has nothing to do with what I said or what I am harshly criticizing you for. Nor does your supposed point, that people are ready for a bleak future if they hate Bush/Cheney, seem to have anything to do with what you actually said.

You try to make the argument that everyone who doesn't support Bush and Cheney (i.e., the vast majority of schmoes, American people, humans on Earth) is a COMMUNIST. You bring communism into nearly every discussion. It really seems crazy, because no one says anything about having communist beliefs or tendencies, yet you always retort to anti-Bush sentiments with "Why not to go Moscow's Red Square, open Mausoleum, reanimate the corpse and ask Vladimir Lenin to run the country." or "Really? I guess you are ready for the proletariat revolution or Great Khalifat." This is totally irrational and in my opinion makes you look at best, obsessed and extremely paranoid, at worst, batshit crazy.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by QUENTIN
This is another example. Being against Bush doesn't make you a communist! You're worse than fucking Joseph McCarthy. You've literally implied that more than half the schmoes on this forum are communists. The majority of the country and the vast majority of the world are against George W. Bush, I assure you they're not all communists or radicals, he's just a terrible president.

I still think Lenin would be a better leader than Nancy. He, at least, accepted his mistakes and wrong doings and started that fucking New Economic Policy. I think Pelosi is more stubborn. The rest of my statement was just a zombie movie idea, without connection to Bush whatsoever. In addition to Bush haters you also got a Pelosi hater, that's it.


It's physically painful to accept the fact of having so many naive or mean folks on the left. If it makes me a new McCarthy in your eyes I don't really know how to fix it. Joseph was a wrong putz for a real stuff. I am just a putz.



;) ;) ;)

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by QUENTIN
All of this has nothing to do with what I said or what I am harshly criticizing you for. Nor does your supposed point, that people are ready for a bleak future if they hate Bush/Cheney, seem to have anything to do with what you actually said.

You try to make the argument that everyone who doesn't support Bush and Cheney (i.e., the vast majority of schmoes, American people, humans on Earth) is a COMMUNIST. You bring communism into nearly every discussion. It really seems crazy, because no one says anything about having communist beliefs or tendencies, yet you always retort to anti-Bush sentiments with "Why not to go Moscow's Red Square, open Mausoleum, reanimate the corpse and ask Vladimir Lenin to run the country." or "Really? I guess you are ready for the proletariat revolution or Great Khalifat." This is totally irrational and in my opinion makes you look at best, obsessed and extremely paranoid, at worst, batshit crazy.

What I read now is an anger because of disagreements.

Back to the bleak future:

Logic: if you think Bush & Co. is the worst you can bravely look into the future. With the good one you got nothing to worry about, with the bad one you can always say: "Bush was much worse. " You are ready. I am not.

[Beenthere]

I keep posting even when I don't!

[Thrizzle]

Originally posted by Beenthere

At age of 41 it's kinda difficult to argue with 20+ years olds who are much more radical (IMO) than I've ever been.


Considering you were a member of the Communist Union of Youth, i find that hard to believe. Honestly, nobody here leans far left enough to be considered a socialist or communist (Vong perhaps but you'd have to ask him). Not that theres anything wrong with that. Seinfeld anyone?

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
Seinfeld anyone?

"What is the deal with capitalism?"

[Vong]

Originally posted by QUENTIN
Jesus fucking Christ Beenthere, I don't know what crazy shit you believe, but it seems all that you do on this forum is state or imply that anyone who doesn't support Bush and his cronies is either a Communist or a Muslim.

Thank you!
Finally someone else sees what I see! :rolleyes:
As I said before, if you argue the sky is red in the morning, Beenthere would claim you're a commie...

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
Considering you were a member of the Communist Union of Youth, i find that hard to believe. Honestly, nobody here leans far left enough to be considered a socialist or communist (Vong perhaps but you'd have to ask him). Not that theres anything wrong with that. Seinfeld anyone?

Never had a chance to become a radical. It was much different back in 1970s. The scary absurdity of Stalin's times were gone. You still were pushed to become a member at age of 13 (up to 28) back in school and consequences of quitting could be significant. I was "radically changed" at age of 20 and stopped paying my membership dues after the army glory days. That was a biggest dissident step (:) ) I ever took.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by Vong
Thank you!
Finally someone else sees what I see! :rolleyes:
As I said before, if you argue the sky is red in the morning, Beenthere would claim you're a commie...

Only in your and probably Quentin's minds.

You proved you belonged to the order, comrade Vong! :D :D

[shoe1985]

Goodness, I didn't think this thread would get so heated. George Bush is a terrible President, and will probably go down as the worst, or in the top 5. You can't say it won't happen now. He is pretty much going to be lameduck soon, and his legacy is not looking to be too amazing.

Now it seems that by next March the troops might be home, if the Dems have their way, which seems likely now.


Beenthere, you seem like a very angry person. Not sure why, but welcome to life. We will all disagree, and that is what makes life great.

[QUENTIN]

Originally posted by Beenthere
What I read now is an anger because of disagreements.

Back to the bleak future:

Logic: if you think Bush & Co. is the worst you can bravely look into the future. With the good one you got nothing to worry about, with the bad one you can always say: "Bush was much worse. " You are ready. I am not.

You still haven't addressed or even touched upon what I'm saying, which is that you accuse everyone of being a COMMUNIST if they're not pro-Bush. You are completely ignoring the main point of my criticism, which is that you arbitrarily and irrationally bring communism into every argument you make. I guarantee this is not something merely Vong or I see, it is patently obvious. One need only scan through your posts for 5 minutes on this forum, or indeed read this very thread, to see that you imply everyone whose views you don't agree with is a communist.

It is not the behavior of a rational, sensible debater. I didn't know you were once forced to be a member of the Communist Union of Youth, but that would explain a lot. Whatever brainwashing or indoctrination went on obviously had a very profound effect on you and I suppose your bad experience with it has left you an extremely paranoid person fixated on communism. But regardless of your circumstances, it is pretty clear that the people you claim are communist (a claim you absolutely refuse to address or explain, here and elsewhere, because there is no real justification for it) are not, and certainly that being against George Bush does not automatically tie you to communism IN ANY WAY. Communism and Anti-Bushism are mutually exclusive. If you think otherwise, then you're just irrationally paranoid, because that would mean the majority of the world is really communist.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by shoe1985
Now it seems that by next March the troops might be home, if the Dems have their way, which seems likely now.


Beenthere, you seem like a very angry person. Not sure why, but welcome to life. We will all disagree, and that is what makes life great.

Angry? Bitter and cynical, maybe. But angry? You probably were reading some posts directed at me that were very angry IMO. Welcome to life? I've been around ... That's why I disagree a lot with a "young angry generation".

Have a nice evening.

[Lynn7]

Beenthere is an angry person? :confused: It's kind of hard to see his anger with all of those smiley faces in his posts. I would say that Quentin is the one who brought the anger into the discussion. I dont' get why we just can't discuss things without all the anger and accusations. I thought this BB was supposed to be about respecting other people's opinions. As far as I know there is no one right or wrong way that we all need to agree on to be acceptable. We still have freedom of thought (and speech) the last I heard.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by QUENTIN
You still haven't addressed or even touched upon what I'm saying, which is that you accuse everyone of being a COMMUNIST if they're not pro-Bush. You are completely ignoring the main point of my criticism, which is that you arbitrarily and irrationally bring communism into every argument you make. I guarantee this is not something merely Vong or I see, it is patently obvious. One need only scan through your posts for 5 minutes on this forum, or indeed read this very thread, to see that you imply everyone whose views you don't agree with is a communist.

It is not the behavior of a rational, sensible debater. I didn't know you were once forced to be a member of the Communist Union of Youth, but that would explain a lot. Whatever brainwashing or indoctrination went on obviously had a very profound effect on you and I suppose your bad experience with it has left you an extremely paranoid person fixated on communism. But regardless of your circumstances, it is pretty clear that the people you claim are communist (a claim you absolutely refuse to address or explain, here and elsewhere, because there is no real justification for it) are not, and certainly that being against George Bush does not automatically tie you to communism IN ANY WAY. Communism and Anti-Bushism are mutually exclusive. If you think otherwise, then you're just irrationally paranoid, because that would mean the majority of the world is really communist.

Quentin, I did not even use a word communist, including this thread. You maybe like the people who share your own POVs and opinions a little bit more than those who disagree. And this is normal. Less PC in my mind. I do think the Left is ready for a revenge but it's not what this thread is about. It's about what I read and discuss with people coming and talking from all over the world, especially from Russia. We can discuss it and nobody will call anyone any names. And one more time, I am critical of Bush, but maybe from the different perspectives. If you have a problem with my cynicism - that I can reconsider. I am also not a big fan of being defensive.
Did you count how many times I was called right winger or conservative on this forum? Let's hope you will defend me next time when someone will call me something I am not.

[QUENTIN]

Originally posted by Lynn7
Beenthere is an angry person? :confused: It's kind of hard to see his anger with all of those smiley faces in his posts. I would say that Quentin is the one who brought the anger into the discussion. I dont' get why we just can't discuss things without all the anger and accusations. I thought this BB was supposed to be about respecting other people's opinions. As far as I know there is no one right or wrong way that we all need to agree on to be acceptable. We still have freedom of thought (and speech) the last I heard.

Neither myself nor anyone else in this thread has demanded everyone agree on some right or wrong ideology. However, there are some things that are not two-sided, they are either right or wrong. For instance:

George W. Bush is a good president (matter of opinion)
George W. Bush is a communist (factually inaccurate, therefore wrong)

or to tie it to movies:

2001: A Space Odyssey is a good movie (matter of opinion)
2001: A Space Odyssey is about the Rodney King trial (Nope, no it isn't. That's not an opinion, there are such things as absolutes and that is wrong)

Beenthere has freedom of thought and speech, I've denied him of neither. What I'm trying to demand of him is that when he repeatedly and incessantly makes accusations that are ridiculous ("You're a communist!", "You're a communist!", "Haha, being a communist again" when communism hasn't otherwise been mentioned and the accused has said nothing relating to communism or connecting themselves with communism) he defends his statements.

It's one thing to make often insulting and irrational statements here, it is another to do so and then offer absolutelty no reasoning and ignore those you accuse. That's just not acceptable debate.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by Lynn7
Beenthere is an angry person? :confused: It's kind of hard to see his anger with all of those smiley faces in his posts. I would say that Quentin is the one who brought the anger into the discussion. I dont' get why we just can't discuss things without all the anger and accusations. I thought this BB was supposed to be about respecting other people's opinions. As far as I know there is no one right or wrong way that we all need to agree on to be acceptable. We still have freedom of thought (and speech) the last I heard.

Thank you, Lynn. I'll make a separate thread (I am lazy to translate so much material from Russian, Ukrainian, etc. :D) where we can discuss less known information and see if I am paranoid or not. And Vong is welcome to nail my logic or absence of it. :D

[QUENTIN]

Originally posted by Beenthere
Quentin, I did not even use a word communist, including this thread. You maybe like the people who share your own POVs and opinions a little bit more than those who disagree. And this is normal. Less PC in my mind. I do think the Left is ready for a revenge but it's not what this thread is about. It's about what I read and discuss with people coming and talking from all over the world, especially from Russia. We can discuss it and nobody will call anyone any names. And one more time, I am critical of Bush, but maybe from the different perspectives. If you have a problem with my cynicism - that I can reconsider. I am also not a big fan of being defensive.
Did you count how many times I was called right winger or conservative on this forum? Let's hope you will defend me next time when someone will call me something I am not.

Whoa, you didn't use the word "communist", great point.

Except wait, you don't have to when what you say in response to one person who would like to see Bush/Cheney out of the White House and another who doesn't want to see Cheney be president is:

"Why not to go Moscow's Red Square, open Mausoleum, reanimate the corpse and ask Vladimir Lenin to run the country. "

and

"Really? I guess you are ready for the proletariat revolution or Great Khalifat."

Those are both explicit referrences to the people you're replying to being communist. The first suggests that an equal alternative to impeaching Bush/Cheney would be reanimating the leader of the Communist Revolution in Russia and having him take over the U.S. The second implies that if a person fears Cheney being president, they must be either communists (awaiting the proletariat revolution) or Muslims (the Great Khalifat), both groups you have made it very clear you hate...or euphemistically, you do not support.

This has nothing to do with you being right-wing and me being left-wing, I know and can peacefully debate with many right-wingers (my parents are both Christian Republicans, we have a great relationship), nor have I called you any names (only identified your comments with accurate descriptions like "paranoid" and "irrational"). This has to do with you making outlandish and inaccurate accusations CONSTANTLY and then not defending your statements or addressing those who comment on them.

You repeatedly claim people on this board who say nothing relating to communism, and are usually just complaining about Bush, are communist. That is ridiculous. There is no direct tie between Anti-Bush and Communism (which I shouldn't have to repeat). If you can't see that, I think you have some issues.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by QUENTIN

It's one thing to make often insulting and irrational statements here, it is another to do so and then offer absolutelty no reasoning and ignore those you accuse. That's just not acceptable debate.

I could not call anyone COMMUNIST because nobody so far was clinically and bloody idiotic enough to be called that name. I discussed Marxism with Vong, true. I called him a Leninist based on similarity of what they wrote, true. I have been anti-uberliberal, true. I support Israel, true. I made some cynical/sarcastic remarks, true. But I am far away from being called McCarthy.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by Beenthere
Angry? Bitter and cynical, maybe. But angry? You probably were reading some posts directed at me that were very angry IMO. Welcome to life? I've been around ... That's why I disagree a lot with a "young angry generation".

Have a nice evening.

I wouldn't say we are angry. We are pretty much like every generation before us. When you get older, you are more mature, and probably see what people do, like my generation, stupid, or immature. Yet, if you look back into your generation, they did the same stuff.

We learn history to not make the same mistakes, yet we just do them over again, sometimes we improve upon them, but most of the time we make them worse.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by QUENTIN
Whoa, you didn't use the word "communist", great point.

Except wait, you don't have to when what you say in response to one person who would like to see Bush/Cheney out of the White House and another who doesn't want to see Cheney be president is:

"Why not to go Moscow's Red Square, open Mausoleum, reanimate the corpse and ask Vladimir Lenin to run the country. "

and

"Really? I guess you are ready for the proletariat revolution or Great Khalifat."

Those are both explicit referrences to the people you're replying to being communist. The first suggests that an equal alternative to impeaching Bush/Cheney would be reanimating the leader of the Communist Revolution in Russia and having him take over the U.S. The second implies that if a person fears Cheney being president, they must be either communists (awaiting the proletariat revolution) or Muslims (the Great Khalifat), both groups you have made it very clear you hate...or euphemistically, you do not support.

This has nothing to do with you being right-wing and me being left-wing, I know and can peacefully debate with many right-wingers (my parents are both Christian Republicans, we have a great relationship), nor have I called you any names (only identified your comments with accurate descriptions like "paranoid" and "irrational"). This has to do with you making outlandish and inaccurate accusations CONSTANTLY and then not defending your statements or addressing those who comment on them.

You repeatedly claim people on this board who say nothing relating to communism, and are usually just complaining about Bush, are communist. That is ridiculous. There is no direct tie between Anti-Bush and Communism (which I shouldn't have to repeat). If you can't see that, I think you have some issues.

You are entitled to hate me as much as you wish. What I see is much ado about nothing. And someone is more paranoid about me accusing people here than me being paranoid...

Have a nice day.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Originally posted by Beenthere
You are entitled to hate me as much as you wish. What I see is much ado about nothing. And someone is more paranoid about me accusing people here than me being paranoid...

Have a nice day.


"Really? I guess you are ready for the proletariat revolution or Great Khalifat."

"Why not to go Moscow's Red Square, open Mausoleum, reanimate the corpse and ask Vladimir Lenin to run the country. He would be much better with the job than the bitch from SF."


I don't think QUENTIN is paranoid at all. He either took something you meant to be hyperbolic too seriously, or he just plain misread you. I'm fine with your opinion, but quotes like the ones above are very easy to take offense too. I've got nothing against Communism. In fact, I think it's a good form of government as long as the people in power aren't sociopathic, bloodthirsty maniacs like Josef Stalin or Pol Pot. But in this country, we have enough McCarthyist lunatics running around accusing everyone who disagrees with the president of being a communist. You may not mean to come across that way, but since this is the internet it's very hard to tell what you're intending to say.


Back to the topic at hand: should President Bush be impeached? Has he done anything that's impeachable that hasn't been done by every other president?

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by shoe1985
I wouldn't say we are angry. We are pretty much like every generation before us. When you get older, you are more mature, and probably see what people do, like my generation, stupid, or immature. Yet, if you look back into your generation, they did the same stuff.

We learn history to not make the same mistakes, yet we just do them over again, sometimes we improve upon them, but most of the time we make them worse.

What I see as a problem these days is the tendency toward conspiracy theries based on hatred and not on evidence. I worry about this. I worry about the generation coming up. It's OK to dislike a president. I have been on the wrong side of just about every president cause I switched polical inclinations along the way. But disliking a president and then accusing one (George W) of being a murderer and a terrorist because of the way he has chosen to conduct the war on terror, is just way too out there for me.

And now Rosie O'Donnell has implied that the British soldiers that were taken by Iran is part of a scheme to get people sympathetic so the US can attack Iran. And she has even insinuated that the 9-11 attacks were maybe orchestrated because there were some documents in the World Trade Center that people did not want taken.????? And I am sure there are many who agree with her. BAsed on no evidence- simply hatred and tangential and fantastical thinking.

If people want to hate our president that is fine and typical in history but the way many are accusing without evidence is indicative of a sickness in our country that is going to be our undoing. So I think that what is going on with this generation is not typical of our country's history but it is typical of what we have seen in other countries' histories -and it isn't a good thing.

Our society is in decay. And emerging is a way of thinking that was called political correctness but is now evolving into a simple choice of thought conformity or ostracism.

[The Postmaster General]

Beenthere - Do you believe people who don't support Bush are communists?

[Vong]

Originally posted by Beenthere
I discussed Marxism with Vong, true. I called him a Leninist based on similarity of what they wrote, true.

Ugh. Are you still going on comparing me to Lenin?
It hurts....
I guess I just have myself to blame for ever trying to reason with you...

[Cyclonus]

If anyone ever deserved to be impeached, Bush certainly does. Unfortunately, I don't see a good likelihood of it happening. Even if it did go through, who'd be the next pres? Cheney? No improvement there, he's probably the one pulling Dubya's strings (along with Rove). Pelosi? Not the best choice, but she can't be much worse.

Cy <--- refuses to have anything to do with the above argument. :o

[The Postmaster General]

I gotta agree with Cy. This is all just lip service by Hagel

[RicochetShaw]

I like how this thread has turned in to a discussion on Communism, because it was originally about Hagel... which sounds like Hegel, who was the philosopher whose ideologies were adopted by Marx and led to his socialist beliefs. Brilliant.

[therealjohng]

Let's get back to discussing the probability of Bush getting impeached, because it's a subject I'd like to hear about. You guys should argue the whole Communism thing in PM's.

[electriclite]

The Republican party is pulling an Al Gore: trying to distance themselves as much as possible from a man who looks like he's taking down the party, before the next election.

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by Vong
Ugh. Are you still going on comparing me to Lenin?
It hurts....
I guess I just have myself to blame for ever trying to reason with you...

You two are not comparable: one of you changed the world, another just can't reason with me and many others...

But if you drop the aplomb it would be predatory entertaining enough to argue with you. :)

[Beenthere]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
Beenthere - Do you believe people who don't support Bush are communists?

No.

I just believe that Left from the Past and particular extremists are on the march.

I believe I have a reason to despise Pelosi as well as SF values.

I believed I could create my phantasmagoric visions as a pure cynicism and, sometimes, denial, but not anymore.

I am not a Bush fan or supporter. Neither I believe he's the worst or pure evil. 99.99% of Washington politicians do not deserve to run the country. He's just one of them. And nobody guarantees we will get 0.01% as a leader anytime soon.

Have a nice day.

[Thrizzle]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/04/03/us/04prexy-600.jpg

President or prisoner?

[someguy]

The only, and I mean ONLY somewhat plausible way I can see Bush getting some sort of impeachment would be months before he ends his term so the Democrats and whatnot can act like 'You see! We did something!' when in fact they did nothing at all. Even that is highly unlikely though.