Pirates of Caribbean- and Matrix- trilogies

[Rackham]

This has been said by others already, but coudn't find a thread about it: all the similarities between these movie-francises:

1. Both had 2 and 3 shot back to back and the second one was little too long and didn’t really accomplish anything, results are left to final chapter.

2. Both lose the leading guy at the end of the second movie, and the rest of the gang has to go get him back somehow.

3. Both are (what I’ve heard of 3,) expanding action to epic porpotinons, but forgetting what made number one so enjoyable: cool dialog.

4. Main badguy from first makes comeback, in a vague way


Both (to me) nro 2.s where a fun ride at first viewing, but quite heavy to watch from beginning to the end after that.

I realised quickly after Matrix Reloaded, that it was ok rollercoaster, but not near as good as the first. But I had faith that third one would make up for it and give solutions. Well, Matrix Revolutions was ten times as bad as Reloaded.

So I’m little hesitant about pirates 3. Not so exited to see it than 2, also partly because an idea of Chinese pirates is quite “meh” to me.

Both have also been result of a thinking: “first one was a hit so lets make 2 more”, but at least pirates doesn’t pretend it was planned as trilogy from a start. Pirates still had a good chance to be a nice trilogy after nro.2 and I enjoyed pirates 2 more than reloaded, but now AWE with 3 hours running time?? I mean the first two were pushing it with the running time.. And new clip shows another recycled joke. Hope those 2 Barbossas pirates from PotC 1 have a reason to be there this time.

PotC-movies are still fun, but strength of the first was its "smaller" scale where things weren't overblown. thes would have been better with different storys in each movie, like Indiana Jones. Thoughts?

Ps. First post by the way

[gyro_44]

Hello and welcome to the boards.

I agree with most of what you are saying there, especially in regards to the Matrix series. Reloaded was pretty good for me but extremely flawed, and Revolutions was a total washout.

I don't think Pirates 3 is going to pull a Matrx Revolutions, so to speak. But that will all depend on whether they remember a good STORY makes the movie, and have actually thought about how it's going to end. Revolutions just felt like an afterthought to me, like they had no idea how to wrap up their story.

If Pirates 3 is a soulless and generic piece of crap like Revolutions then I'm definitely pooh-poohing this idea of shooting a second and third film back-to-back altogether. Maybe they should have caught on after Back to the Future.

[mutesaint]

I think I am the only person alive, aside from the Wachowskies, who actually enjoyed Revolutions. Its definentlly flawed, but I enjoy it.

POTC 3 looks interesting. I have to admit that it hasnt really sold me yet, but then again I still dont quite know the whole story yet. I am giving it the benifet of the doubt and hop that it will be nifty.

[DareDevil]

Originally posted by mutesaint
I think I am the only person alive, aside from the Wachowskies, who actually enjoyed Revolutions. Its definentlly flawed, but I enjoy it.


Your not alone, I liked it a lot, hell i doubt POT3 will be as good.

[KingofKings2525]

Originally posted by mutesaint
I think I am the only person alive, aside from the Wachowskies, who actually enjoyed Revolutions. Its definentlly flawed, but I enjoy it.


You're not alone. I thought Revolutions was as good as the first. I love the Matrix Trilogy.

As to the original post - I never noticed all the similiarties but I like them! Here's to a kicks ass 3rd installment of Pirates!

[cocksmokinclerk]

love both trilogies can't wait for POTC 3, and the similarities are pretty cool, never really thought about that

[FLAME_ON]

When I first joined the boards I tried to say PotC 2 and The Empire Strikes Back had scary similarities within the story and characters... but I got a new ass hole ripped open and kept my mouth shut since!

[bigred760]

Originally posted by DareDevil
Your not alone, I liked it a lot, hell i doubt POT3 will be as good.

I also really enjoyed the Matrix sequels.

But I do like Rackham's comparisons and for the most part are true, with a few minor tidbits:

-the main villains from the first movie appear in different parts of the respective sequels; Agent Smith towards the beginning and Capt. Barbossa's entrance made for a suprise ending.

-the dialogue was not the reason The Matrix was so freakin' cool; for me it was the mythology, the idea of the story - that we're living in "a dream world." The awesome action and special effects also had a lot to do with it also.

And while there are a lot of similarities between the way the sequels are being handled, I don't think the third intallment of POTC will suffer as much as the third Matrix movie. For starters, it's rated PG-13 which means a wider audience can see it. Secondly, the sequel made a gazillion dollars and was praised by most audiences (while not by critics suprisingly). And while both villains reappear in the sequels, it looks like they'll be "used" differently; Agent Smith becomes a more powerful villain, while it seems that Barbossa becomes somewhat of an ally.

[dannywalker17]

I actually never even saw Revolutions after the Reloaded debacle.

Another similarity is that they were both originally just one movie that would up hitting it big and so they decided to make them trilogies.

[Rick-James]

Acutally POTC and Matrix sequels are both using Empire and ROTJ as a blue print.

[adamjohnson]

I didnt read the whole thread but...

The thing about the second and third Matrix (among others) was that they moved out of the coolest part of the first film - The Matrix. By focusing so much more on the real world, they removed the most interesting aspect.

Also, the two sequels had ZERO style. The first was very film-noirish, had tons of cool shots, and interesting ambiguity - and the sequels ust seemed so damn uninspired.

[gyro_44]

Originally posted by adamjohnson
I didnt read the whole thread but...

The thing about the second and third Matrix (among others) was that they moved out of the coolest part of the first film - The Matrix. By focusing so much more on the real world, they removed the most interesting aspect.

Also, the two sequels had ZERO style. The first was very film-noirish, had tons of cool shots, and interesting ambiguity - and the sequels ust seemed so damn uninspired.
Yep, I have to more or less agree. That's why I think I found Revolutions far less interesting. Reloaded had a few great scenes in the Matrix though, with the visit to the Merovingian and ensuing car chase being a highlight for me. Pretty big fan of that car chase.

[Crazy Dud]

Originally posted by bigred760
I also really enjoyed the Matrix sequels.

But I do like Rackham's comparisons and for the most part are true, with a few minor tidbits:

-the main villains from the first movie appear in different parts of the respective sequels; Agent Smith towards the beginning and Capt. Barbossa's entrance made for a suprise ending.

-the dialogue was not the reason The Matrix was so freakin' cool; for me it was the mythology, the idea of the story - that we're living in "a dream world." The awesome action and special effects also had a lot to do with it also.

And while there are a lot of similarities between the way the sequels are being handled, I don't think the third intallment of POTC will suffer as much as the third Matrix movie. For starters, it's rated PG-13 which means a wider audience can see it. Secondly, the sequel made a gazillion dollars and was praised by most audiences (while not by critics suprisingly). And while both villains reappear in the sequels, it looks like they'll be "used" differently; Agent Smith becomes a more powerful villain, while it seems that Barbossa becomes somewhat of an ally.

Everything said by BigRed is right on the money.

And, yes, Pirates 3, unlike Revolutions, will make a killing at the box office.

[adamjohnson]

The Matrix sequels were originally written as ONE sequel, and frankly it would have been better off if they had kept it that way. There would have been a more equal balance between Matrix and Real World.

[DodgersFan11]

People would have bitched no matter how Revolutions ended, I think.

I thought it was fine.

[Dom Shady]

Originally posted by mutesaint
I think I am the only person alive, aside from the Wachowskies, who actually enjoyed Revolutions. Its definentlly flawed, but I enjoy it.

Throw me in that boat also, I loved the whole trilogy.

[Kevin Smith fan]

I thought the last two installments of the Matrix serries were pretty good also, but its rediculous to think this was intentended as a trilogy. The first one is so radically different that the first. Not only it's look and feel, but nearly everything about it feels so different. It's almost as if the time in between the first Matrix and Reloaded Neo just evolved into this superhuman with all of these underground connections that were nowhere to be seen or heard of in the first installment.

Anyways, the Pirates movies are horrid. I account the first's success to low expectations (it was based on a goddam amusement park ride) and Johnny Depp. After it was looked upon as this great serries, I really don't see it as anything but another drawn out Walt Disney exploitation franchise. Who needs Pixar when you have Pirates?

[shawn-o]

this is eerily true....the matrix trilogy and the pirates trilogy are way too much alike...both Reloaded/Revolutions and Dead Man's Chest/At Worlds End also have soo many new uneeded characters to keep track off...that gets annoying

Heres how i predict the Pirate movies will end... :p

We already know that huge show down between the India Trading Company and the global population of pirates will ensure. I think Captain Jack will meet a long lost love interest who is now with a different pirate captain whos a real asshole. As the movie progresses we see Davy Jones is gaining too much power, making the India Trading company uneasy. At the final battle Davy Jones will uncover that he was only looking out for himself and that will cause the pirates and the ITC to fight him. He will be defeated, causing Will Turner and Elisabeth Swan to die. A truce will then emerge between the ITC and the pirates and Captain Jack will live happily ever after with his lost maiden...

NOW IS THAT THE ULTIMATE MATRIX/PIRATES SEND OFF OR WHAT??

[bigred760]

Originally posted by shawn-o
this is eerily true....the matrix trilogy and the pirates trilogy are way too much alike...both Reloaded/Revolutions and Dead Man's Chest/At Worlds End also have soo many new uneeded characters to keep track off...that gets annoying

Heres how i predict the Pirate movies will end... :p

We already know that huge show down between the India Trading Company and the global population of pirates will ensure. I think Captain Jack will meet a long lost love interest who is now with a different pirate captain whos a real asshole. As the movie progresses we see Davy Jones is gaining too much power, making the India Trading company uneasy. At the final battle Davy Jones will uncover that he was only looking out for himself and that will cause the pirates and the ITC to fight him. He will be defeated, causing Will Turner and Elisabeth Swan to die. A truce will then emerge between the ITC and the pirates and Captain Jack will live happily ever after with his lost maiden...

NOW IS THAT THE ULTIMATE MATRIX/PIRATES SEND OFF OR WHAT??

That would really be creepy. I don't think it'll happen (:D) but that would be eerily creepy.

[mutesaint]

I will actually be really pissed if they kill off Will/Swan.

[Monotreme]

I agree, and disagree. For me, the Pirates experience was quite the opposite. The first time I saw it in theatres I thought it was okay. But the second time, on DVD, I realised that it was just as wacky, crazy, fantastical fun as the first, although plodded down a bit by over-scripting. This is unlike Matrix Reloaded, which suffered from one major problem: being way too pretentious for its own good. The first one felt loose and cool; the second one was too stiff, too serious, and way too ridiculous to justify that kind of feel. My hopes are up for Pirates 3; a big, epic show-down to complete the grand, fantastic adventure that was Pirates 1 and 2. It's just a fun ride and it never thinks itself as anything other than that. And that's good enough for me.

[Rackham]

Originally posted by Monotreme
I agree, and disagree. For me, the Pirates experience was quite the opposite. The first time I saw it in theatres I thought it was okay. But the second time, on DVD, I realised that it was just as wacky, crazy, fantastical fun as the first, although plodded down a bit by over-scripting. This is unlike Matrix Reloaded, which suffered from one major problem: being way too pretentious for its own good. The first one felt loose and cool; the second one was too stiff, too serious, and way too ridiculous to justify that kind of feel. My hopes are up for Pirates 3; a big, epic show-down to complete the grand, fantastic adventure that was Pirates 1 and 2. It's just a fun ride and it never thinks itself as anything other than that. And that's good enough for me.

Good points there, and I mostly agree. I don't expect PotC 3 to be M: Revolutions- bad, but PotC series has similar broblems that Matrix had, unnecessary characters and subplots. Smaller and simpler would work better, these kind of movies just run out of steam (imo) with 3 hours running time, opposed to two hour fun movie. Still liked nro. 2, so gona check out 3rd in movies.

[rilocay]

Those are some good similarities pointed out. I really enjoeyd the matrix trilogy, but then again at the time i was die-hard matrix fan, still love em, especially the first. POTC will end better i'd say, it has less to screw up, and while the matrix sequels were seemingly made for more the movie geek who would suss out every little detail of the films, the potc films are made for very different, with the majority of the fans being a much younger audience, let alone the story isn't anywhere as multi-layered and you could say kinda "spoon-fed" to the audience. BTW i think the potc are fair nuts so ya know, i kinda sound matrix biased here, thought id clean that up.

POTC 3 shouldnt be a screw up, they dont have much to work on really, most people love the Matrix, it has that perfect blend of action, story, cool yet meaningfull dialogue and a mythos and philosphy that just runs deeper and deeper..and it's all fun at the same time, yet the sequels try to do this with more seriousness and ahelluva lot philosphy but try to make it as fun...and it didn't quite work. Seeing as POTC is about as dense as the make-up on Keira Knightley's face, they dont - and should'nt - have this problem.

But what do they have in the sequels that matrix didn't...Chow Yun-Fat!! Booyah!:D

[Shockwave]

My senses are still recovering from the second two Matrix movies.

The difference between the two trilogies (to me) is that PIRATES is alot of fun, while the Matrix movies(aside fromt he first, which was awesome!) were fucking boring. Ive never seen movies that babble so much about nothing.

The y could have combined the last two Matrix movies if they had cut out all the bullshit and got to the point, and it wouldve been twice the movie.

[LordSimen]

Originally posted by Rackham
This has been said by others already, but coudn't find a thread about it: all the similarities between these movie-francises:

1. Both had 2 and 3 shot back to back and the second one was little too long and didn’t really accomplish anything, results are left to final chapter.

2. Both lose the leading guy at the end of the second movie, and the rest of the gang has to go get him back somehow.

3. Both are (what I’ve heard of 3,) expanding action to epic porpotinons, but forgetting what made number one so enjoyable: cool dialog.

4. Main badguy from first makes comeback, in a vague way


Aside from the stuff that basically is merely your opinion (such as forgetting what made number one enjoyable) and being shot back to back- Most of these things can be said for the original Star Wars trilogy as well. While we don't lose Luke at the end of Empire Strikes Back, he does lose an arm and we do end up loosing Han Solo (the rest of the gang has to get him back) and it is bigger, meaner and more epic than the previous film and the main badguy from the first makes a come back once again in a vague way. The entire movie has some progress but ultimately leave sit to the final film to give us a conclusion.