CN sues Native protesters

[Vong]

Story Here (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070509/cn_lawsuit_070509/20070509?hub=TopStories)

Wow.

[unspoken]

I don't see why not. There's a big difference between protesting someone's business and blatantly disrupting it.

[Vong]

Originally posted by unspoken
I don't see why not. There's a big difference between protesting someone's business and blatantly disrupting it.

True. But they are doing this because neither the provincial or federal levels of government are willing to listen to their land claims. Sometimes the only way to get someone's attention is to take away their sources of income. Hitting the CN railway makes both governments listen intently.

[unspoken]

I can understand that, but on the flip side look at Caledonia. It's been over a year there now, and basically all that's been accomplished is the ignition of a "civil war" between the natives and non-natives and disservicing people who have nothing to do with the situation by digging up roads, tearing down power towers, etc.

The thing I don't understand is, the government is less likely to give them what they want in the end as the further some of them keep go with their bully tactics...so what's the point of them if you're just screwing yourself in the end?

But make no mistake, if CN wins this lawsuit, it's going to be just the beginning of the shit storm.

[outsyder]

Good. It's about time somebody had the balls to challenge these people.

[Vong]

Caledonia was a mess, and it's a shame it ended up the way it did. But the purpose of the Natives protesting on that land, as well as anywhere, is due to their land claims. The land in Caledonia technically belongs to them. By protesting there, they are basically trying to get their land back. Unfortunately no one in the region saw it that way, and that resulted in the ugly clashes.

The reasoning behind the protesters isn't exactly well thought out, and these people do not repressent in any way the 6 Nations or leaders therein. While the 6 Nations would try to resolve the issue peacefully, these rag-tag Natives are going above the leader's heads and doing it their way. Which is only making the Native issue worse by painting a bad image on them.

And I agree, if CN does win, this will no doubt set a precedent in future lawsuits against the Natives and probably limit or totally eliminate any future land claim protests.

[unspoken]

Originally posted by Vong
Caledonia was a mess, and it's a shame it ended up the way it did. But the purpose of the Natives protesting on that land, as well as anywhere, is due to their land claims. The land in Caledonia technically belongs to them. By protesting there, they are basically trying to get their land back. Unfortunately no one in the region saw it that way, and that resulted in the ugly clashes.

Yes, it still is a mess, just not as bad right now as it was a while ago. But is it their land? It was once, but it was supposedly sold to the government. I'm not saying it for sure isn't theirs, but I won't say it for sure is either. The problem is that from my understanding, the deal was verbal and done in the mid 1800's, so there's nobody who can actually prove it.

The reasoning behind the protesters isn't exactly well thought out, and these people do not repressent in any way the 6 Nations or leaders therein. While the 6 Nations would try to resolve the issue peacefully, these rag-tag Natives are going above the leader's heads and doing it their way. Which is only making the Native issue worse by painting a bad image on them.

I agree, and that's not the only situation where it happens. There are lots who want to do it the right way. The ones who don't are the ones who give the bad name because those stories sell newspapers and get people watching TV. I'm curious as to whether this and future lawsuits will target specific individuals or the tribes as a whole. But in CN's case, it does seem kind of counter productive, since just like the tribes, they receive a decent chunk of their funding from the gov't, so essentially they're suing their own provider(and I guess taxpayers as a whole).

And I agree, if CN does win, this will no doubt set a precedent in future lawsuits against the Natives and probably limit or totally eliminate any future land claim protests.

I guess that's one way to look at it. Not that I disagree with your point, but I was thinking more along the lines of further rebellion, and more than likely more acts of violence and destruction among the ones who, right now, choose not to do things in the right way. And in talking to several of the older native people in my apartment building, they all say that the situation is getting worse with the younger generation (14-25 year olds mostly). They say this because a good number of these kids have had the "unfair treatment, rebel and fuck everything" mentality drove into their heads basically since birth, and some of the ones who weren't raised like that have had it rub off on them by their friends.

It's a delicate situation that could blow like an A-bomb with just one move. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

[Vong]

Originally posted by unspoken
But is it their land? It was once, but it was supposedly sold to the government. I'm not saying it for sure isn't theirs, but I won't say it for sure is either. The problem is that from my understanding, the deal was verbal and done in the mid 1800's, so there's nobody who can actually prove it.

The land is officially, by 1784, theirs.
The Haldimand Treaty (http://library2.usask.ca/native/cnlc/vol09/115.html)
(scroll down to the very bottom to see this)

"His Majesty's faithful Allies purchased a Tract of Land, from the Indians situated between the Lakes Ontario, Erie, & Huron and I do hereby in His Majesty's name authorize and permit the said Mohawk Nation, and such other of the Six Nation Indians as wish to settle in that Quarter to take Possession of, & Settle upon the Banks of the River commonly called Ours [Ouse] or Grand River. running into Lake Erie, allotting to them for that Purpose Six Miles deep from each Side of the River beginning at Lake Erie, & extending in that Proportion to the Head of the said River, which them & their Posterity are to enjoy for ever."

The land claim resides in a treaty signed by the Crown, and it still remains active.

The issue is whether or not the land was given to the government, or merely leased to them in order to build a highway in the first place. The Natives claim some of the land was given to the government, the rest was meant for their reserve. Of course, the government sees otherwise and claims the Natives signed it away a hundred years ago.

[Vong]

Originally posted by outsyder
Good. It's about time somebody had the balls to challenge these people.

It's easy for a young, urban white kid to say these things. Put yourself in their shoes and see where they are coming from.

[outsyder]

Remember the Oka crisis? They killed a fucking police officer and got away with it. I have no sympathy for these people.

[Vong]

Remember Ipperwash? Dudley George was killed by a police officer.

And when you say "these people", do you mean Native people entirely? If so, I congratulate you on being racist and judging an entire group of people on a mere handful...

[TheAxeGrinder]

Frankly speaking, these groups of Native peoples should respect and obey the law and quit making things miserable for the rest of us Canadians. Too bad politicians are gutless/stupid and dole out taxpayer money to make the problem 'go away' (hear that, McGuinty?). It just exacerbates the problem and brings more of them out of the woodwork to annoy the rest of us, and give the hard-working honest Native peoples a bad name.

Then again, whenever someone steps up and says something about this, the bleeding hearts come out and cry racism and such. Frankly, I'm not responsible for the sins of my fathers, and neither should the current generations of Canadians be. Quit pissing and moaning for freebies and disrupting the country!