The Assault on Reason

[Thrizzle]

That is the title of Al Gore's new book, and i think it brings up an important issue that's a real problem in America today. Take the recent Republican debate when Ron Paul suggested that our influence in the middle east was a factor in the 9/11 terrorist attack. What he said was perfectly correct and a logical issue to address; but Guiliani jumped in and scolded him for saying it, and was applauded for it. For the life of me i cannot understand WHY.

Check out this video of Al Gore talking about his new book; its amazingly ironic and a perfect example of what he's talking about:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/Download/17556/2/GMA-Gore-Sawyer.mov

[QUENTIN]

Wow, this clip should be preserved in a time capsule as the perfect example of what is wrong with the American media. This was really funny, until you reflect on how sad it is.

As for the WHY this is happening... The answer is the simple and unfortunate one, the American people are becoming increasingly less-informed on all the important issues that effect them as more and more the news appeals to their base emotions rather than their mind, provides them unchecked misinformation, and all media outlets become corporatized and consider their audience consumers to sell rather than citizens to inform.

[Squid Vicious]

Originally posted by QUENTIN
and all media outlets become corporatized and consider their audience consumers to sell rather than citizens to inform.

Well, you can (partly) thank the Clinton/Gore administration for that. Remember the Telecommunications Act of '96 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecom_Reform_Act)?

[electriclite]

This is nothing new.

Go watch Broadcast News, the perversion of the American TV journalism has been going on for at least more than 20 years. We can go as far back as the early 1900's with Hearst's "yellow journalism" that incited the Spanish-American War.

I said the same thing in the Nancy Grace thread in the Rant section. The news is no longer about the story but about the networks, the ratings and the anchors. Its about feeling more than about the facts, Who cares if the story is true or not, all you have to do is huff and puff loud enough and long enough till you've emoted a belief into a fact.

News is now brought to us in the manner of info-tainment and the sensationalistic style of tabloid magazines and entertainment news shows like ET, the Insider, Extra, etc... If its not sexy or glamorous or juvenile enough, the American public just doesn't care about it, and of course, networks will pander to those preferences.

What's most disturbing is that it seems other parts of the world are modeling their programming after our's.

[Thrizzle]

To people who disagree i would say to go watch any world news program on any of the major networks. At least 10 minutes of those 30 minute broadcasts are devoted to promoting new drugs. This week it's that new birth control pill that supresses periods. What a lot of people dont know is that those promos are developed by the pharm companies and sent to the networks to air. They're advertisments passed of as news stories.

Corporate interests have superseded public interests in nearly all facets of life and government.

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
Take the recent Republican debate when Ron Paul suggested that our influence in the middle east was a factor in the 9/11 terrorist attack. What he said was perfectly correct and a logical issue to address; but Guiliani jumped in and scolded him for saying it, and was applauded for it. For the life of me i cannot understand WHY.

[/url]

I can't see the clip but I wanted to comment on this. For that guy to suggest that we were a factor in people murdering innocents is like blaming a college woman for getting raped and murdered because woman wear revealing clothing. It doens't matter what happened or happens- murder is wrong and the murder of 3,000 people on 9-11 can not be blamed on US policies. If that was the case any country's people could be targetted because of any country's policies. That kind of talk gives excuses for the terroists to hide behind. They kill because they hate our culture. We are infidels to them. They hated us because the INFIDELS were on their land.

[Thrizzle]

That is how Republicans paint it but its just not true. Sticking to your rape analogy, Ron Paul wasn't assigning blame but merely pointing out that in order to best avoid rape in the future, the woman shouldnt walk around the worst part of town at 3 in the morning. And obviously, a woman could significantly reduce her chances of getting raped if she avoided those types of scenarios. Reasonable, isnt it?

But our current foreign policy doesnt address that issue at all, instead it takes it a step further and worsens the problem. Which would be like if the woman that just got raped went back to the same neighborhood at 3 in the morning, yelling out, "I'm soooo fucking hot! Dont you guys just love it!?!"

[electriclite]

Are there really people who would have me believe that all muslim extremists just woke up one morning and without any sort of reason or provocation, declared war against the West?

Why in the hell would they hate our culture if Republicans want people to believe we've never done a thing to them. That's like me walking up to a complete "stranger" and assualting them, and then them saying that I assualted them because I don't like they're personality.

Makes no sense. Plus we have history books hold up the suggestion.

No one on the other side of the world makes war on someone else's foreign culture unless that culture has invaded their own first. No one is making this statement in order to blame America, but so that we know what are part is in this and learn from it, thereby making sure we don't repeat the damn thing over again and then stand around with our thumbs up our asses wondering why bad shit happens.

[QUENTIN]

Originally posted by Lynn7
I can't see the clip but I wanted to comment on this. For that guy to suggest that we were a factor in people murdering innocents is like blaming a college woman for getting raped and murdered because woman wear revealing clothing. It doens't matter what happened or happens- murder is wrong and the murder of 3,000 people on 9-11 can not be blamed on US policies. If that was the case any country's people could be targetted because of any country's policies. That kind of talk gives excuses for the terroists to hide behind. They kill because they hate our culture. We are infidels to them. They hated us because the INFIDELS were on their land.

What a perfect example of the assault on reason in action.

The CIA has a term for what happened on 9/11, it's called "blowback", and they expect it because they understand that our illegal covert operations around the world that negatively effect other countries will have obvious consequences. When the government decides to kill thousands of innocents abroad, they do it recognizing the possibility that it will bite us in the ass. I'm still not sure why you don't care at all about us killing innocent people who don't happen to be American and dismiss it outright ("It doesn't matter what happened or happens"), but it's a big part of our history, especially in the 20th century. Anyway, understanding that America's actions will lead to terrorism isn't blaming the U.S. for 9/11, it's explaining why 9/11 occured, which I'd think would be important, so it doesn't happen again. The 9/11 Commission Report understands that and agrees. I'm not sure why you place an ideal of America's total innocence above our citizen's safety, but...well, I guess that's part of the "assault on reason"

[Lynn7]

Originally posted by Thrizzle
That is how Republicans paint it but its just not true. Sticking to your rape analogy, Ron Paul wasn't assigning blame but merely pointing out that in order to best avoid rape in the future, the woman shouldnt walk around the worst part of town at 3 in the morning. And obviously, a woman could significantly reduce her chances of getting raped if she avoided those types of scenarios. Reasonable, isnt it?

But our current foreign policy doesnt address that issue at all, instead it takes it a step further and worsens the problem. Which would be like if the woman that just got raped went back to the same neighborhood at 3 in the morning, yelling out, "I'm soooo fucking hot! Dont you guys just love it!?!"

OK - so if we think that we are doing something that angers these people like having a military presence in Saudi Arabia (and their government wants us there) and then we get attacked because this group (Al Qaeda) considers us infidels and wants us out and wants to kill us, then should be withdraw?

Aren't you guys the ones who say we should not think that all Muslims are like these guys in Al Qaeda? So should we listen to any group who makes demands of us because they kill our innocents? That is why we are supposed to have the policy of not giving into conditions for hostage releases- because it encourages more hostage taking. If we do what these groups demand and remove ourselves from everything to do with the Middle EAst then they have a free reign in those countries without fear of our presense and also anytime they want us to do something, all they have to do is blow up our U.S. civilians and we will bend over backwards for them.

Also regarding the woman who is raped I agree she should not go walking there but after she is raped the police need to go after the rapist and arrest him and make sure that area of the campus is protected so it does not happen again.

[Jon Lyrik]

Originally posted by electriclite
This is nothing new.

Go watch Broadcast News, the perversion of the American TV journalism has been going on for at least more than 20 years. We can go as far back as the early 1900's with Hearst's "yellow journalism" that incited the Spanish-American War.

I said the same thing in the Nancy Grace thread in the Rant section. The news is no longer about the story but about the networks, the ratings and the anchors. Its about feeling more than about the facts, Who cares if the story is true or not, all you have to do is huff and puff loud enough and long enough till you've emoted a belief into a fact.

News is now brought to us in the manner of info-tainment and the sensationalistic style of tabloid magazines and entertainment news shows like ET, the Insider, Extra, etc... If its not sexy or glamorous or juvenile enough, the American public just doesn't care about it, and of course, networks will pander to those preferences.

What's most disturbing is that it seems other parts of the world are modeling their programming after our's.

Well, it's always like this, but the more advanced humanity gets, the more elaborate it looks. History was always written by the victors and whoever has the most toys. The difference is that in the last several decades, people have thought that maybe everyone can have their voice heard through the ever-shrinking world and the rise of telecommunications, the internet, etc., but of course the most powerful people simply keep enough of the public fed on viscerally appealing "news" while eroding the average person's ability to exploit this new technology and new way to be heard ever so slowly while also fucking with the concept of privacy (the telecommunications industry and the government have been in bed since post-WWII, net neutrality is at stake, all technological forms of communication are dominated by the massive corporations pushing for this shit).

[electriclite]

Originally posted by Lynn7


Also regarding the woman who is raped I agree she should not go walking there but after she is raped the police need to go after the rapist and arrest him and make sure that area of the campus is protected so it does not happen again.



Yeah but when the cops look for a suspect, they don't shoot up a whole neighborhood all the way across the otherside of town from where the assault happened because they guess the guy maybe there.


And you're confused as to the goal of taking ownership in our part in this insanity. We're talking about our past history of interfering and manipulating in the futures of nations. Taking the power away from the rightful owners of those countries, the people, for the sake of our own benefit. Those kinds of actions are the ones that need to be seriously taken into account and considered when uncovering the path to 9/11. Because it didn't start 10 years ago, or 15 or even 25 years ago.


If you even read up on the millions of deaths that have resulted in our manipulations in South America, you would be left asking yourself why in the world we don't have Hispanics attacking us in the same manner as Al Qaeda.

I'm not talking about open military presence like your Saudi Arabia scenario, but about the underlying furtive agendas going on beneath that.


This isn't even an isolated anomaly, relegated to just the middle east and the west. There are cases like this throughout history where more advanced cultures encroached upon the lands and of those they thought were less developed than themselves, abused those cultures and suffered retribution because of it.

This is not a modern political issue, its been going on for centuries; its truth has been born out time and time again. And you know what they say about those who refuse to learn from history.