Bush vetoes another stem cell bill

[someguy]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/20/bush.stem.cell.ap/index.html

Idiot

[jolanar]

It makes me sad thinking about how many people are going to have prolonged suffering or even death because of zealots like this.

[The Postmaster General]

Then you have these people using in-vitro fertilization to get pregnant - They douse these women with thousands of eggs to increase the chance of conception. They end up having sextuplets, often losing half or more of the prematurely born kids.

Yet our leader deems that scientific research using the same technology, but in far lessor numbers of resources - that's a waste of life.

[QUENTIN]

This is really ironic considering stem cells could hold the key to curing Bush's debilitating mental deficiencies.

[Vong]

What's the purpose of a legislative body if the president has veto power to deny bills?

Fucking retarded....

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Originally posted by Vong
What's the purpose of a legislative body if the president has veto power to deny bills?


That's where we have a huge problem. The Senate could override Bush's veto but the problem is all of the fucking spineless cowards in the senate who are depending on the religious right for their votes can't stand up. Republicans keep saying they're distancing themselves from the president yet on almost every single piece of recent legislation they've voted with him.

This is why Bush is the worst fucking president in history. He's opposed to almost everything that will benefit the American people like social programs, stem cell research, and stricter environmental laws.....yet he has no problem with throwing billons of taxpayer dollars to a war that has no good end in sight. Meanwhile, the man who is responsible for the worst attack on our homeland in history is still loose. What a fucking embarassment. I hope the next bill he won't be able to override is a movement for impeachment for him and Cheney.

[notchreturns]

Yeah great. Let's keep denying those who need serious help, but send in thousands of troops to "save us from the real danger"

Sad stuff

[Thrizzle]

His awful presidency would be comical at this point if it werent so tragic.

He shouldve been impeached years ago.

[jolanar]

Originally posted by Vong
What's the purpose of a legislative body if the president has veto power to deny bills?

Fucking retarded....

Admittedly I'm no expert, but can't Congress override a president's veto?

[MacReady]

Originally posted by jolanar
Admittedly I'm no expert, but can't Congress override a president's veto?

Originally posted by Brando @$$ Fat in the post just below
That's where we have a huge problem. The Senate could override Bush's veto but the problem is all of the fucking spineless cowards in the senate who are depending on the religious right for their votes can't stand up.

[shoe1985]

I believe the big problem he has with it is that people will start exploring cloning. We are overpopulated as is, and you know if say a loved one dies, people will drop crazy money to bring them back as a clone.

As for helping people become healthier and save lives, I am for it, but like I said, we are overpopulated as is. Instead of discussing this topic, we should discuss topics like how to control the population. I don't know where you live, but I am from a small town, and we are finding it harder and harder to find places to live. We can't keep cutting down trees. We will end up destroying more than we have too. We never had this problem before because people would die what is considered young today.

[Vong]

Originally posted by shoe1985
I believe the big problem he has with it is that people will start exploring cloning. We are overpopulated as is, and you know if say a loved one dies, people will drop crazy money to bring them back as a clone.

As for helping people become healthier and save lives, I am for it, but like I said, we are overpopulated as is. Instead of discussing this topic, we should discuss topics like how to control the population. I don't know where you live, but I am from a small town, and we are finding it harder and harder to find places to live. We can't keep cutting down trees. We will end up destroying more than we have too. We never had this problem before because people would die what is considered young today.

Over-population is an issue, I agree. Diseases are part of nature's way of limiting a population. But you trying telling a cancer patient that he has to die because he is part of a natural process that must be adhered to. Things look very different when you are the one dying.

[Scarface98.9]

Congress could override a veto but I've never understood why those aren't more common. A lot of laws were overturned when Nixon was around, but why aren't the overrides done more often? If Democrats claim to be against Bush's ideas, why aren't they fighting them?

[EVILxxx]

Originally posted by Scarface98.9
Congress could override a veto but I've never understood why those aren't more common. A lot of laws were overturned when Nixon was around, but why aren't the overrides done more often? If Democrats claim to be against Bush's ideas, why aren't they fighting them?

A 2/3rds vote is very hard to get especially in times of partisan politics. The whole concept of political parties and affiliations counters the idea of separation of powers. Washington knew this.

[someguy]

I was just going to post about how 2/3rds majority is hard to get Evil.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by Vong
Over-population is an issue, I agree. Diseases are part of nature's way of limiting a population. But you trying telling a cancer patient that he has to die because he is part of a natural process that must be adhered to. Things look very different when you are the one dying.

Very true, but we all must remember we must die one day. There is no way around it. We had a discussion in class one day about how people that are 80 or 90 are out playing golf, swimming, or some other activity. They are living lives of people that are 30 or 40. Now not all older people are like that, but more and more are. I don't know how we will be able to have people living over 100 and be able to survive.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by shoe1985
I believe the big problem he has with it is that people will start exploring cloning. We are overpopulated as is, and you know if say a loved one dies, people will drop crazy money to bring them back as a clone.
=


That has nothing to do with it. I think you are being optimistic, and giving Bush too much credit for thinking.

They currently use this same technology (lab sperm and lab eggs to make embryos) to help couples get pregnant, often giving them sextuplets. You can't argue that they don't want to use all this stuff because of fear of raising the population, when they currently use it to raise the population.

The real reason that he has a problem with it -- the reason he keeps giving - is bad enough. I've never heard the man speak anything remotely resembling population control - in fact, with his advocacy against condoms in schools, abortion, sex education, nature governing man.... I'd say population control is the exact opposite of what he thinks is best. I'm pretty sure overpopulation translates to survival-of-the-fittest with this guy.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
That has nothing to do with it. I think you are being optimistic, and giving Bush too much credit for thinking.

They currently use this same technology (lab sperm and lab eggs to make embryos) to help couples get pregnant, often giving them sextuplets. You can't argue that they don't want to use all this stuff because of fear of raising the population, when they currently use it to raise the population.

The real reason that he has a problem with it -- the reason he keeps giving - is bad enough. I've never heard the man speak anything remotely resembling population control - in fact, with his advocacy against condoms in schools, abortion, sex education, nature governing man.... I'd say population control is the exact opposite of what he thinks is best. I'm pretty sure overpopulation translates to survival-of-the-fittest with this guy.

I don't know his reasoning for this veto, but I am for vetoing it for the reasons I discussed. I am not a Bush supporter, Lynn can back me up on that.

I was just watching a program on tv about a woman who is trying to have a daughter with her husband of 10 years. They have 5 boys at the moment. The interviewer asked if they plan to have anymore kids and the woman said they won't stop till they get a girl. The woman was asked how many would it take before they gave up, and the woman said maybe 20.

So, instead of fighting for stem cells, maybe we should push towards stopping people from doing stupid things. I understand you want a boy or girl, but be happy with what you have. You shouldn't play the role of god. There are reasons you have a boy or girl.

There reasons to live life to the fullest. First it will lead to curing diseases, then it will evolve to cloning, then it will evolve to something else. It will just keep going and going. If I am going to die, I am going to die. There are reasons for everything.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Originally posted by shoe1985
I don't know his reasoning for this veto, but I am for vetoing it for the reasons I discussed. I am not a Bush supporter, Lynn can back me up on that.

I was just watching a program on tv about a woman who is trying to have a daughter with her husband of 10 years. They have 5 boys at the moment. The interviewer asked if they plan to have anymore kids and the woman said they won't stop till they get a girl. The woman was asked how many would it take before they gave up, and the woman said maybe 20.

So, instead of fighting for stem cells, maybe we should push towards stopping people from doing stupid things. I understand you want a boy or girl, but be happy with what you have. You shouldn't play the role of god. There are reasons you have a boy or girl.

There reasons to live life to the fullest. First it will lead to curing diseases, then it will evolve to cloning, then it will evolve to something else. It will just keep going and going. If I am going to die, I am going to die. There are reasons for everything.

A reasonable concern, and it's good that we're not all in agreement here because for a while it was getting pretty boring.

I support stem cell research but I am concerned it will lead to things like cloning also. Hopefully, we are beyond that and will use it for curing Parkisans and Alzheimers and the like.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by shoe1985
I don't know his reasoning for this veto, but I am for vetoing it for the reasons I discussed. I am not a Bush supporter, Lynn can back me up on that.

I was just watching a program on tv about a woman who is trying to have a daughter with her husband of 10 years. They have 5 boys at the moment. The interviewer asked if they plan to have anymore kids and the woman said they won't stop till they get a girl. The woman was asked how many would it take before they gave up, and the woman said maybe 20.

So, instead of fighting for stem cells, maybe we should push towards stopping people from doing stupid things. I understand you want a boy or girl, but be happy with what you have. You shouldn't play the role of god. There are reasons you have a boy or girl.

There reasons to live life to the fullest. First it will lead to curing diseases, then it will evolve to cloning, then it will evolve to something else. It will just keep going and going. If I am going to die, I am going to die. There are reasons for everything.



Yeah, but this is like worrying that a microwave can be built into a WoMD. I mean... It could be done, but it's kind of like saying NASA should be shut down because of the risk that we will accidentally wander into the territory of a civilization that exists in another solar system. It... could.... happen.

Yeah, my analogies suck, but the point is that the amount of scientists using stem cells to research how to bring people back from the dead is probably much less to the ratio of people who are buying microwaves to figure out how to make them into weapons.

Even more so - approving something for research toward Alzheimer's is totally different than approving something for human cloning experiments. It isn't just because they have access to stem cells they can do whatever they want -- Just like you can't be prescribed morphine because you have the flu. Anyone who is crazy and dangerous enough to engage in illegal experiments will do so whether it's... um... legal, or not.

It's really not that hard to get stem cells, if you think about it. I don't mean like, You want stem cells, let me make a call, I can get you some by dusk --- I'm saying if someone is willing to work against approved uses in order to do something like cloning humans --- What's to stop them from paying a fertility doctor a few bucks for a few bits and pieces here and there?

Anyway - The bill wasn't a Cloning Humans Bill. You mention a case of some woman having a bunch of kids - aside from me saying, "Whatever - it's her uterus." I don't see what it has to do with stem cell research. You say we should just keep people from doing stupid things. Huh? What did people with Alzheimers and Parkinsons do that was so stupid as to we should take a stand because instead of researching to stop these things, we should stop people from doing stupid stuff.

I mean, what does one have to do with the other. I can't argue that SOME people should only have few children, but really have no clue how you are tying that in to stem cell research - ESPECIALLY since we already use totally different methods using the same resources to do exactly what you say people shouldn't do.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
Yeah, but this is like worrying that a microwave can be built into a WoMD. I mean... It could be done, but it's kind of like saying NASA should be shut down because of the risk that we will accidentally wander into the territory of a civilization that exists in another solar system. It... could.... happen.

Yeah, my analogies suck, but the point is that the amount of scientists using stem cells to research how to bring people back from the dead is probably much less to the ratio of people who are buying microwaves to figure out how to make them into weapons.

Even more so - approving something for research toward Alzheimer's is totally different than approving something for human cloning experiments. It isn't just because they have access to stem cells they can do whatever they want -- Just like you can't be prescribed morphine because you have the flu. Anyone who is crazy and dangerous enough to engage in illegal experiments will do so whether it's... um... legal, or not.

It's really not that hard to get stem cells, if you think about it. I don't mean like, You want stem cells, let me make a call, I can get you some by dusk --- I'm saying if someone is willing to work against approved uses in order to do something like cloning humans --- What's to stop them from paying a fertility doctor a few bucks for a few bits and pieces here and there?

Anyway - The bill wasn't a Cloning Humans Bill. You mention a case of some woman having a bunch of kids - aside from me saying, "Whatever - it's her uterus." I don't see what it has to do with stem cell research. You say we should just keep people from doing stupid things. Huh? What did people with Alzheimers and Parkinsons do that was so stupid as to we should take a stand because instead of researching to stop these things, we should stop people from doing stupid stuff.

I mean, what does one have to do with the other. I can't argue that SOME people should only have few children, but really have no clue how you are tying that in to stem cell research - ESPECIALLY since we already use totally different methods using the same resources to do exactly what you say people shouldn't do.

The biggest problem most senators, well I have spoken to a few from Pa, and they are afraid what it will lead too. Cloning is what it will lead too. People will live till they are 200. We need to consider a lot of options. I don't wish anyone to have the diseases that are out there. I have my belief we shouldn't do it.

[Badbird]

ZOMG - clones!

WTF? Do they think this is a sci-fi Hollywood movie? Like it's just gonna turn into Judge Dreadd, The SIxth Day or The Island or something and we'll start popping clones out of the microwave?

Yeah, it doesn't really work that way.

Curing deseases that tousands of living people suffer from > clump of cells.

[The Heart Collector]

Bush could kill a child at this point and I'd be unfazed.

[Badbird]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Bush could kill a child at this point and I'd be unfazed.

Well, according to the anti-stem cell zeolots, technically, he has - the twins were concieved via invitro fertilization, which means lots of other eggs were wasted. Those poor, poor snowflake babies.

[Mr-Blonde]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Bush could kill a child at this point and I'd be unfazed.

You and apparently 30% of America according to the polls.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by shoe1985
The biggest problem most senators, well I have spoken to a few from Pa, and they are afraid what it will lead too. Cloning is what it will lead too. People will live till they are 200. We need to consider a lot of options. I don't wish anyone to have the diseases that are out there. I have my belief we shouldn't do it.


Well, I just happen to believe that's like saying we should ban insulin, because misusing it can be fatal.