Smoking Ban

[Moviefan1234]

Source - http://www.abc27.com/printarticle.hrb?a=p&f=n&s=434293&f1=loc&stat=whtm

Senate Burns Holes in Smoking Ban Bill for Bars, Casinos
Location: Harrisburg
Posted: June 26, 2007 4:34 PM EST
URL: http://www.abc27.com/news/stories//434293.html

Harrisburg (AP) -


Senators have carved loopholes into legislation to ban smoking in many public and work places in Pennsylvania. After two hours of debate Monday, they voted 29-to-21 to insert partial or complete exemptions for slot machine parlors, private clubs, bars and cigar bars.
Smoking would even be permitted in nursing homes and unregulated day care.

Governor Rendell called a press conference to call the Senate bill unacceptable. He says he sent a letter to House leaders to strengthen their version of the Clean Air Act or he would veto it. Rendell says that there are too many exemptions in the Senate bill and it's just too weak.

"I would rather veto the bill and have no bill at all, than have a bill that is so compromised in my judgement," says Governor Rendell.

The Senate is expected to pass it's smoking ban with the exemptions. The bill then goes to the House where the governor is hoping most of those exemptions will get taken out before a bill ends up on his desk.

Governor Rendell wants the smoking ban done before they leave for summer break.

Here in Pennsylvania this is a pretty hot topic, and I know other states are having similar debates. How does everyone else feel about the public smoking ban? Should it include everywhere? Or should bars and casinos be exempt? Or do you disagree with the smoking ban altogether?

[Vong]

Here in Ontario, smoking is banned in any indoor buildings, including bars, casinos, restaurants and offices. Smoking is designated to areas outside of the building, on patios, decks or around the corner away from others.

Personally, I applaud any measure to get rid of smoking. It's a disgusting and deadly habit that no one else should be subjected to. When I go to a bar or restaurant, I want to be able to breathe and not have to worry about second-hand smoke.

[Scarfather]

I don't want any smoke around while I consume alcohol and gamble.

lol

[MadsenOMC]

Hey, if one is at a bar and damaging their liver, they need to protect their lungs.

[Criminal Rock]

Point taken, Scarfather... but you must understand that a person can't get you drunk just by standing next to you and consuming alcohol, whereas a smoker can fill your lungs with smoke just by being in the same room. Sure, alcohol is a worse and more deadly habit, but smoking is a more invasive habit in any situation. You can regulate alcohol consumption at bars and casinos, try doing that with cigarettes.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by Moviefan1234
Source - http://www.abc27.com/printarticle.hrb?a=p&f=n&s=434293&f1=loc&stat=whtm

Senate Burns Holes in Smoking Ban Bill for Bars, Casinos
Location: Harrisburg
Posted: June 26, 2007 4:34 PM EST
URL: http://www.abc27.com/news/stories//434293.html

Harrisburg (AP) -


Senators have carved loopholes into legislation to ban smoking in many public and work places in Pennsylvania. After two hours of debate Monday, they voted 29-to-21 to insert partial or complete exemptions for slot machine parlors, private clubs, bars and cigar bars.
Smoking would even be permitted in nursing homes and unregulated day care.

Governor Rendell called a press conference to call the Senate bill unacceptable. He says he sent a letter to House leaders to strengthen their version of the Clean Air Act or he would veto it. Rendell says that there are too many exemptions in the Senate bill and it's just too weak.

"I would rather veto the bill and have no bill at all, than have a bill that is so compromised in my judgement," says Governor Rendell.

The Senate is expected to pass it's smoking ban with the exemptions. The bill then goes to the House where the governor is hoping most of those exemptions will get taken out before a bill ends up on his desk.

Governor Rendell wants the smoking ban done before they leave for summer break.

Here in Pennsylvania this is a pretty hot topic, and I know other states are having similar debates. How does everyone else feel about the public smoking ban? Should it include everywhere? Or should bars and casinos be exempt? Or do you disagree with the smoking ban altogether?

Being from Pa also, and living near Scranton, I had this impact me pretty hard. I know people that smoke and would go to different places to eat in Scranton for breakfast, lunch, and supper. I don't smoke, so I was happy for the ban. Many people left to other towns because they allowed them to smoke. Some people would drive a half hour away just to get that smoke in. I found it to be pretty shallow. Just quit and you have no worries.

You should be able to smoke in your home and that is it. I would like to go outside and breathe fresh, clean air, not smoked filled. Smokers could care less about others around them also. Being a college student, I have gotten used to the smoke going in my face. You can't walk to class without going passed a smoker and having it fly in your face.

Ban it in public places.

[The Postmaster General]

IN my early-20s I was up to 2 1/2 packs a day. Fucking flavor country, I tell you.

Applying some of what I learned in psychology to myself, I stopped smoking in places I frequent, say in a restaurant, instead of smoking at the table, I'd step over to the bar, or outside to smoke - At my home, instead of plopped in front of the TV, I'd go out to the porch, or even just in my "not usual" chair --- Once I took away the association of where I like to be is where I smoke, quitting was next to nothing. It's pretty much intro psych 101. And the last I checked, quitting smoking was probably a good move on my part.

Then there's these people who are fighting politically to keep their right to sit exactly where they are at, even if it is a place they don't own, and have no legal right to be there --- these people are ardent that they should be allowed to keep sitting right where they want and smoke away.

Another moment where I state in disbelief: "And I'm supposed to be the weirdo here?"

Anyway - All these people who are like, "Oh, you quit. Well good for you, I don't want to." I must say, "Oh, you want to bitch and moan because you can't smoke where ever you want. Well good for you, I don't want to do that, and fortunately for me, the laws on my side for once."

[shoe1985]

BubbaStrangelove, excellent post there. I agree 100% with everything you said. I was reading in my local paper that my county had a vote to start banning smoking in public places and it went 2-1 to ban it. Now it has to go through more voting, but it brought a smile to my face. Maybe now I can breathe freely.

[someguy]

Haha, who remembers that Penn and Teller episode where they said second hand smoking is bullshit?

[Vong]

Originally posted by someguy
Haha, who remembers that Penn and Teller episode where they said second hand smoking is bullshit?

i've seen many of their episodes....that show is bullshit...

[Scarfather]

Originally posted by Tai Mai Jew
Point taken, Scarfather... but you must understand that a person can't get you drunk just by standing next to you and consuming alcohol, whereas a smoker can fill your lungs with smoke just by being in the same room. Sure, alcohol is a worse and more deadly habit, but smoking is a more invasive habit in any situation. You can regulate alcohol consumption at bars and casinos, try doing that with cigarettes.

Well... whoopdy do. Seriosuly.

If an individual is partaking in acts like drinking and gambling both of which are harmful to your life in separate ways, then you don't have any right to complain about second-hand smoke.

Casinos and bars are not churches or family restaurants, they are places of generally harmful activity, for you to down some shots, slap down two grand on the table, and then go "Hem, hem, could you mind not smoking?" Is cockshit.

I am all for banning smoking in the wide majority of public places, but casinos and pubs are not included.

Originally posted by Vong
i've seen many of their episodes....that show is bullshit...

You're a chiropractor, right?

[Criminal Rock]

What the fuck are you talking about? Of course you still have a bleeding right to complain. What kind of crap is that?

Your “smoking’s OK if drinking’s OK” argument/excuse is nothing but irrelevant because the simple act of drinking is only harmful to those who choose to drink (unless, of course, you drink and drive, which is illegal, and only makes my next point even stronger), whilst second hand smoke is harmful to EVERYBODY close to or around the person smoking... sort of like a drunken driver, except not AS deadly.

But my point remains the same.

You have the right to cancer, as long as you don't give it to me.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

If it's someone just coming in for a drink, then ok they shouldn't be subjected to someone else's smoke. But I'd find it hilarious if a wino or a degenerate gambler found secondhand smoke to be a nuisance.

[Thrizzle]

Why are cigarettes even legal? Because we wouldnt be able to control the addiction? Because the cigarette companies have too much influence in Washington?

If i released an energy drink that caused cancer and destroyed lungs, and knowlingly added nicotine into it to make people addicted, i'd be thrown in jail for the rest of my life.

All im saying is, legalize marijuana and i'll call it even; but as long as it's illegal you damned smokers wont get any sympathy from me.

[EVILxxx]

I don't see a problem with bars applying for the ability to have their establishment a place where people can smoke. A "smoking license" or something of that nature would be suitable. A bar is open to the public, but it is still privately owned.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by Scarfather
Well... whoopdy do. Seriosuly.

If an individual is partaking in acts like drinking and gambling both of which are harmful to your life in separate ways, then you don't have any right to complain about second-hand smoke.

Casinos and bars are not churches or family restaurants, they are places of generally harmful activity, for you to down some shots, slap down two grand on the table, and then go "Hem, hem, could you mind not smoking?" Is cockshit.

I am all for banning smoking in the wide majority of public places, but casinos and pubs are not included.



You're a chiropractor, right?

I am with Tai Mai Jew 100% on this. Gambling and Drinking has no effect on me if someone else is doing it. You could say that if the person gets drunk and gets behind the wheel, but lets just go by one drink. I doubt someone is going to be swerving all over the road.

If I am at a casino and someone near me is smoking, I get the second hand and the people next to me do also. My clothes start to smell and it is disgusting. It affects me now.

EVILxxx, I do kinda agree with you on bars. Bars are known for drinking and smoking. Now I am for banning smoking, but I am not a bar goer. Now a smoking license is a good idea. The company could put a smoking allowed sign up.

[Badbird]

I hope that everyone who complains about the evilness of second hand smoke holds their breath for every moment they drive in traffic, because your daily exposure to car exhuast will do a whole lot worse for you that a few hours in a smokey bar - or, god forbid, a puffy cloud near some building entrance.

If cigarettes are so god damed bad, they should just be banned. Smokers have done everything that people asked: they went outside. Then they went farther away outside. And yet people still aren't satisfied.

Personally, I don't smoke. It doesn't bother me at all. I find perfume far more intollerable to my senses. If you don't like smoke, don't patronize smoking establishments. For fuck sake, stop acting like a bunch of pussies.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

According to The Onion, there is a proven correlation between secondhand smoke and secondhand coolness.

Seriously though, I must be the only one bugged by this. It's so fucking sad that they're only focusing on smoking when people can also get lung cancer from many other ways....namely pollution. It's ok for people to blow their shit in our air yet somebody smoking a cigarette is BAD. Please....I think there should be restrictions, especially in public places, but for Chrissakes most of these people probably don't know anybody who smokes, or else they wouldn't be such condescending dicks about it.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Scarfather
Well... whoopdy do. Seriosuly.

If an individual is partaking in acts like drinking and gambling both of which are harmful to your life in separate ways, then you don't have any right to complain about second-hand smoke.

Casinos and bars are not churches or family restaurants, they are places of generally harmful activity, for you to down some shots, slap down two grand on the table, and then go "Hem, hem, could you mind not smoking?" Is cockshit.

I am all for banning smoking in the wide majority of public places, but casinos and pubs are not included.



What the hell kind of argument is this? Drinking and gambling ARE banned in many counties and states.

Let's put our heads on here. You can't walk into a TGI Fridays and start playing open table craps. You can't walk around the mall taking shots out of a whiskey bottle. But you CAN, even in (most?) places where smoking is banned, go into a tobacco or other smoke shop and have a cigarette.

So where's the comparison now? Would you be quiet about it if they went ahead and banned drinking and gambling everywhere? Of course you wouldn't. That's probably because you need a smoke.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Brando @$$ Fat
Seriously though, I must be the only one bugged by this. It's so fucking sad that they're only focusing on smoking when people can also get lung cancer from many other ways....namely pollution. It's ok for people to blow their shit in our air yet somebody smoking a cigarette is BAD. Please....I think there should be restrictions, especially in public places, but for Chrissakes most of these people probably don't know anybody who smokes, or else they wouldn't be such condescending dicks about it.



Contradicting my previous posts to an extent, I do casually smoke (at my job on weekends - really about a pack every two weeks, which doesn't account for much.) My mom smokes. My wife's parents smoke. My best friend smokes. Most of my friends smoke in fact.

I think pollution from cars and factories is bad too, and I wish they'd make more laws to prevent that. The last time I checked there were big organizations designed to ban these sorts of things. Why the hell because I don't think people should be able to smoke everywhere I bring my pregnant wife, does that mean I'm totally cool with smog and CO2 emissions???

I know you weren't referring to me specifically, but who the heck are you referring to. I don't think there are really people like the ones you are talking about. If there are, I don't think it's very many.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by Badbird
I hope that everyone who complains about the evilness of second hand smoke holds their breath for every moment they drive in traffic, because your daily exposure to car exhuast will do a whole lot worse for you that a few hours in a smokey bar - or, god forbid, a puffy cloud near some building entrance.

If cigarettes are so god damed bad, they should just be banned. Smokers have done everything that people asked: they went outside. Then they went farther away outside. And yet people still aren't satisfied.

Personally, I don't smoke. It doesn't bother me at all. I find perfume far more intollerable to my senses. If you don't like smoke, don't patronize smoking establishments. For fuck sake, stop acting like a bunch of pussies.

There are pollution controls for those types of things. They might be enforced, might not be.

Cigarettes are heading to becoming illegal because of the amount of people pushing for them to be. I am 100% behind banning them. They are still a big industry, and they pay a lot in taxes. They could raise the price for a carton to $100 and people would still buy them because it is an addiction. They should be banned, but won't be for a long time.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Badbird
If you don't like smoke, don't patronize smoking establishments. For fuck sake, stop acting like a bunch of pussies.


I don't get this.

If you want to smoke, don't patronize nonsmoking establishments. For fucks sake, stop acting like a heroin addict.

I don't get why the burden should be placed on the person who doesn't want to breathe tobacco smoke.

And when has smoking been banned outside in the US?

Really, I don't get how the nonsmokers are acting like the pussies. The smokers are doing FAR more bitching and moaning. I mean, like, really when was the last time you saw nonsmokers being interviewed on evening news, moaning that they can't find any nonsmoking places? Probably never. Yet with every smoking ban, I see nothing but smokers doing the moaning.

[Vong]

I think the war on cigarettes is half due to the health concern as well as battling against "Big Tobacco". They are profitting off the deaths of millions of people each year. I know that the Canadian government has done an excellent job in weening people off the stick and thusly preventing money flow to the "death eaters". I can only hope the US government does the same.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
I know you weren't referring to me specifically, but who the heck are you referring to. I don't think there are really people like the ones you are talking about. If there are, I don't think it's very many.


I'm talking about the people who are always trying to bring this kind of legislation into action. I didn't have you in mind at all.

[Tuukka]

I'm an ex-smoker. I used to smoke a pack a day. I don't smoke at all nowadays.

I think it's hypocritical that only smoking is considered bad, where as plenty of other things that are just as bad are approved. Bad eating habits are much larger problem in USA, and in the western world in general.

Besides, fat people take up two seats in busses. That harms me, because I have to stand. Fuckers. And fat people look disgusting just as much as smokers smell disgusting. The smell of smoke won't attach to your clothes unless you choose to spend time with smokers. It's a free country, you can choose your company. You can choose to which club you go.

And alcohol causes a lot of violence in society, not just driving accidents. Plenty of rapes, beatings and murders happen under the influence of alcohol. There is a direct correlation.

Smoking doesn't cause such things.

I'm fine with preventing smoking in places where passive smoking causes health risks to other people. Like interiors of working places. Or interiors of schools. But at the same time I definitely think that bars should be able to ask for special permissions that allows them to offer services for smokers.

Frankly, the idea that you get lung cancer because a smoker walked by you on the street makes zero sense and can hardly be backed up by any scientific data. Pollution caused by cars is a much bigger risk.

I do think that smoking is a bad habit. That's why I quit. That's also why I started eating healthier food. But at the same time I think that people have the right to harm themselves, whether it happens by smoking, drinking or eating.

I believe in the freedom of the individual. And I don't believe in hypocrisy.

[The Postmaster General]

Well, it's just a total backlash, isn't it? Tobacco companies have shat upon consumers; their totally immoral marketing and general way of doing business is shitty as a matter of common knowledge.

I do agree that it should be up to an establishment - to some degree, because I think we all know that someone getting paid $10 and hour isn't going to want to tell people to put out their cigarettes, so it will never happen.

We ate at the Cracker Barrel the other day - My wife, and my kid. We asked for a non-smoking seat, and no shit, we were sitting directly next to some guy who was smoking, even turning back blowing smoke in our direction. It was of no consequence, IMO, to us - aside from not really wanting to smell smoke while you eat, I grew up around it, so it's of no bother.

My wife on the other hand, is asthmatic, and allergic specifically to cigarette smoke. When I smoke, I have to wash my hands and do some breath cleaning, or she may have a bone fide asthma attack. I know, what a wimp. :rolleyes: But she's a trooper too and it she said it'd be fine, that she'd just step outside if it started bothering her.

There's a point about assuming establishments will practice common sense, in regards to handling smoking, buried in there somewhere.

As far as hypocrisy, I don't even see how that can be a counter-issue of any sort. America grants Cuban exiles immunity when they reach our soil, but kicks Haitians back into the ocean. If we are going to start making a big deal about the inconsistencies in law (not just america, but all countries) then we should probably pay due to those sorts of injustices instead of standing up to defend people who for some reason really, really, really have to have a legal right to smoke cigarettes where ever they want. Geez - why not make a whoop out of drug laws first?

[Badbird]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
I don't get this.

If you want to smoke, don't patronize nonsmoking establishments. For fucks sake, stop acting like a heroin addict.

I don't get why the burden should be placed on the person who doesn't want to breathe tobacco smoke.

And when has smoking been banned outside in the US?

Really, I don't get how the nonsmokers are acting like the pussies. The smokers are doing FAR more bitching and moaning. I mean, like, really when was the last time you saw nonsmokers being interviewed on evening news, moaning that they can't find any nonsmoking places? Probably never. Yet with every smoking ban, I see nothing but smokers doing the moaning.

Are you kidding? Have you read any letters to the editor of pretty much any newspaper? Have you seen any college newspaper? Cancer stick this, cancer stick that? Blah, blah, blah.

People bitch all the time here about smoking/non-smoking establishments. And I have never, ever heard a smoker complain about going to a non-smoking business - it's always the other way around.

That's like me complaining about the noise when I go to a football game.

And there are many laws in several states being pushed to ban smoking at all kinds out out door spaces, like a hundreds yards fom a school (which is fucking rediculous). California has some of the strickest out door laws.

And the thing is, I don't even smoke! But it's just another way of chipping away what you have a right to do.

Some businesses can fire you if you smoke - because it hurts their health care costs. So are fat people next?

New Jersey has, or is trying to, make it against the law to smoke in your car if there is anyone under 18 in it. In your own car! After that comes a law telling you what you can and can't do in your own home.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by Badbird
And there are many laws in several states being pushed to ban smoking at all kinds out out door spaces, like a hundreds yards fom a school (which is fucking rediculous). California has some of the strickest out door laws.

Some businesses can fire you if you smoke - because it hurts their health care costs. So are fat people next?

I want to discuss these two topics.

You find it wrong that they want to make it where you have be so many yards away from a school to smoke? This is the worst comment someone could make. You try to push for kids not to smoke, the way you sound, you want everyone to smoke.

Businesses expect their workers to get the right amount of exercise. But it is the business' decision whether they want to hire a smoker or not, but it could be considered discrimination also. I plan on owning my business one day, and guess what, there won't be any smoking near my business. I will own the property, and I will have a say in what happens there. Similar to your home, what you say goes.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by Badbird

People bitch all the time here about smoking/non-smoking establishments. And I have never, ever heard a smoker complain about going to a non-smoking business - it's always the other way around.


And the thing is, I don't even smoke!


Wait. If the smokers aren't complaining, then what are you complaining about? I mean, you say smokers aren't complaining about having nonsmoking establishments, then why is there even a debate here? Then what is the issue?

The fact is that there have always been more smoking-allowed establishments than not. Now that it's shifted the other way --- Really... You don't hear anyone complaining? You're lucky, because all I hear are complaints.... Or is it just more of the pesky nonsmokers doing all the complaining because they think it's unfair that the smokers (who have no complaint about a ban what-so-ever) have to deal with it, so they are speaking up and complaining, just because they like to complain, maybe because they need a cigarette in their mouth,.

Anyway - So, yeah - I guess if smokers aren't complaining or have no problems with nonsmoking establishments, then everyone must be cool with the ban. Okay. Everyone should be happy.

Also - What? You have a problem with smoking being banned 100 whatever from a school? Are you trying to hold on to that image of the guy in the trench coat who used to stand outside the playground watching you on the jungle gym while he smoked? I don't even understand what problems it would be for anyone if you can't smoke on school grounds --- Hey, you can't have strip clubs next to schools either - I suppose you think that's a rights infringement.

And PS - I'm getting tired of the comparison of cigarettes to unhealthy food. I've tried to smoke a Big Mac, and it just doesn't work; the sucker won't stay lit.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
Well, it's just a total backlash, isn't it? Tobacco companies have shat upon consumers; their totally immoral marketing and general way of doing business is shitty as a matter of common knowledge.

I do agree that it should be up to an establishment - to some degree, because I think we all know that someone getting paid $10 and hour isn't going to want to tell people to put out their cigarettes, so it will never happen.

We ate at the Cracker Barrel the other day - My wife, and my kid. We asked for a non-smoking seat, and no shit, we were sitting directly next to some guy who was smoking, even turning back blowing smoke in our direction. It was of no consequence, IMO, to us - aside from not really wanting to smell smoke while you eat, I grew up around it, so it's of no bother.

My wife on the other hand, is asthmatic, and allergic specifically to cigarette smoke. When I smoke, I have to wash my hands and do some breath cleaning, or she may have a bone fide asthma attack. I know, what a wimp. :rolleyes: But she's a trooper too and it she said it'd be fine, that she'd just step outside if it started bothering her.

There's a point about assuming establishments will practice common sense, in regards to handling smoking, buried in there somewhere.

As far as hypocrisy, I don't even see how that can be a counter-issue of any sort. America grants Cuban exiles immunity when they reach our soil, but kicks Haitians back into the ocean. If we are going to start making a big deal about the inconsistencies in law (not just america, but all countries) then we should probably pay due to those sorts of injustices instead of standing up to defend people who for some reason really, really, really have to have a legal right to smoke cigarettes where ever they want. Geez - why not make a whoop out of drug laws first?


All I was saying earlier is that I think the people in power who push for this legislation show way more concern about secondhand smoke than they do other equally harmful things. I think nonsmokers do have a right to complain. Absolutely. Especially when the person smoking is being an inconsiderate asshole. Like that episode of The Sopranos when Dr. Melfi and her son are at the restaurant and that bitch at the table next to them has her cigarette pointed in their direction. Even when Melfi kindly asked her to point it the other way she refused and kept being a cunt. That shit pisses me off and it happens way too often. Over half of my friends smoke and at least they have the decency to roll down the window or simply do it outside. What boils my blood is how some smokers act like they're an oppressed minority, even creating the term "smoking nazis" for people who like to breathe clean air. The fact they consider their plight similar to that of the Jews is fucking disgraceful.

The Big Mac comparison is also very flawed, but it does have some validity. Yeah, it doesn't harm the people around you, but it's a threat because fast food is not only advertised on television but it's available to people of all ages. As a health risk eating a Big Mac every day is probably worse than smoking every day. It's just a matter of promoting one lifestyle over another.

Bubba, the exact same thing happened to me at a Cracker Barrel once. We asked for the nonsmoking section and we got a seat right next to the smoking section. That's where I think laws need to be put in place. I have nothing against restaurants having smoking sections but they must be sealed off from the nonsmoking sections.

[The Postmaster General]

Yeah, I know of only a couple people who are excessive about their lack of tolerance for smoke, and even they are mostly laid back. I'm probably just lucky about knowing laid back people.

And I see validity in points, like - I mentioned asthma problems. We do go to clubs where there is smoking, and yeah, we drink - the thing is, that's a choice. However, it does nothing against me if no one is allowed to smoke around me. So, there are really two sides around me: Those who wish for the protection to be exposed to cigarette smoke, for personal reasons, and those who wish to produce and consume cigarette smoke, for personal reasons. They battled, and the latter group lost. That's pretty much the whole situation in a nut shell.

You're right about this persecution nonsense. It isn't about loss of rights, because both groups wanted something, and neither of the things they wanted is guaranteed by the Constitution or whatever. I don't see what the big deal is. To me, it's like speeding laws. No one gets all pissed off because they can't go 80 in a school zone. They either suck it up and chill for a little bit, or they are an ass about it and take their chances, possibly at the least making others uncomfortable. But geez man, you tell people they have to step outside so that they can burn something and breathe in the smoke, then exhale what isn't absorbed into their lungs, and whoa shit man, watch out!

Back to all this talk of people ignoring fast food risks. I would like to point out that one of the highest grossing documentary films is a piece on America's overindulgence in fast food. There have been a few law suits. It isn't like no one is minding. The point is that this is a democracy, or something like that. We've decided that no one should have to breathe your second hand smoke, for whatever reason, while we eat our chicken fried steak. And no, we don't care for you to mind us that the chicken fried steak may be clogging our arteries. If it honestly bothers you, feel free to start a lobby, and in the meantime, may I suggest the smoke-free "cigarettes" to plug your pie hole, because honestly we both know that this is what this is all about.

[Badbird]

The 100 yard law is stupid because the notion is that it protects their health - it has nothing to do with being a bad influence. Smoke disipates in the atmosphere. The cars picking them up pose a bigger heath threat than a cigarette.

There are schools in my neighborhood with houses right across he street from them. Less than 100 yards, so technically some guy coming home from work while smoking a cigarette could get fined by walking from his house to his front door.

And while I said smokers don't complain about existing non smoking establishments - they DO complain when you tell businesses what they can and can't do. Specifically forcing a smoking establishment to go non smoking.

[The Postmaster General]

My point was in asking where all of these nonsmoking bars and restaurants were prior to smoking bans being put in effect. You can't credit someone for not complaining about something that never happened. And do I really need to point out that they are now complaining about not being able to smoke first, and complaining about owners rights as an afterthought?

[The Heart Collector]

Does anyone honestly believe they're going to get cancer from second-hand smoke?


I mean if you've got pulmonary/respiratory issues, sure, feel free to complain, but otherwise you're just a giant pussy.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Does anyone honestly believe they're going to get cancer from second-hand smoke?


Haven't you ever gotten a contact buzz?

I mean, I haven't, since I'm usually the one causing them, but I mean to say....

There's so much debate, IMO, on the entire gambit of smoking related issues, that it doesn't even need to be thrown into consideration. Some people smoke until they are 100, others die from respiratory cancer having never smoked in their life. Hard evidence is an issue as far as I'm concerned when speaking of smoking risks. My honest belief is that it's an issue of susceptibility more than cigarettes.

That being said, if someone is susceptible to respiratory problems due to smoke inhalation, and they chose not to smoke, I don't see the big issue with laws requiring public businesses to provide smoke free environments. What is greater? The right to choose which businesses you want to associate with, or the right to smoke a cigarette. I say the first one. So do laws in many states.

And to me, as I touched on, this is entirely a choice issue. Some people choose to breathe smoke from cigarettes, and others do not. They fought about it, and the people who don't won in some states. I really don't see why nonsmokers are bent out of shape about it. Freedom of choice, blah, blah, blah. Throw the word freedom in there and it can get a lot of emotion out of some people, but not me, because I know freedom isn't the issue. The issue is a bunch of people are addicted to cigarettes, and are bent out of shape because they can't smoke - No different than they've always been.

If it really is about freedom, why aren't we bitching about our freedom to go shirtless in the Wal-Mart, or our freedom to not wear shoes at the deli? Because people aren't physically addicted to not wearing shoes and shirts, so they've never had a problem with being denied service. Now that they are - they are all going, "Well, no one told you that you have to go to a bar where people smoke." Yeah, well, no one told them to start smoking. Whatever, man. Smoke 'em if you got em, I guess. I just think it's all mostly amusing, and don't get why it's all like a global issue.

[ilovemovies]

Yay. I'm all for banning smoking in all public places. I hope it happens. Here in PA and everyone else.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by The Heart Collector
Does anyone honestly believe they're going to get cancer from second-hand smoke?


I mean if you've got pulmonary/respiratory issues, sure, feel free to complain, but otherwise you're just a giant pussy.

What if we don't want to smell like smoke, or breathe it in? I have asthma, and just the smell of smoke gets me wheezing. I go to a bar with friends and after 5 minutes have to go outside, where there are more people smoking. It is ridiculous that I can't go somewhere to have fun, and not be able to because someone is smoking.

If you want to smoke, do it in your home. If you want to do drugs, do it in your home. I don't care what you do in your home, it doesn't bother me. I just won't go in your home. I just would like to walk outside and be able to breathe fresh air, well whatever fresh air there is.

Also, I could call those that light up a pussy because they have to fight the urge. Why not fight it and not light? They are just pussies.

ilovemovies, where are you from in PA?

[ilovemovies]

Originally posted by shoe1985
.

ilovemovies, where are you from in PA?

Downingtown

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by ilovemovies
Downingtown

I have never heard of that. Is it in the south? I am from Tunkhannock.

[QUENTIN]

Originally posted by ilovemovies
Downingtown

No shit? I've been to Downingtown, I have a good friend in college who lives there. He went to Downingtown East. Small world. Doesn't Bam Margera live near you?

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by shoe1985
What if we don't want to smell like smoke, or breathe it in? I have asthma, and just the smell of smoke gets me wheezing. I go to a bar with friends and after 5 minutes have to go outside, where there are more people smoking. It is ridiculous that I can't go somewhere to have fun, and not be able to because someone is smoking.


I think that's covered under respiratory problems.



Also, I could call those that light up a pussy because they have to fight the urge. Why not fight it and not light? They are just pussies.


Even worse they are complaining about their addiction under the guise of freedom.




Something else kind of funny is that people are comparing smoking to food that is bad for you. Yet, give me a list of businesses in America that will let you bring a Big Mac in and eat it., or to take the drinking comparison - bring alcohol in and drink it. I shouldn't have to mention that no place allows you to gamble.



Yet, it's pretty infuriating seeing so many people here missing nice tidbits like this:


After two hours of debate Monday, they voted 29-to-21 to insert partial or complete exemptions for slot machine parlors, private clubs, bars and cigar bars.
Smoking would even be permitted in nursing homes and unregulated day care.


So it seems that no ones freedom has been taken away. Pretty much every argument about being able to drink, but not smoke, gambling, etc - They've all been flushed down the toilet like a tiny wrinkled green turd I may have named Yoda.

If anyone needs to smoke in a public place, they can choose many of the local tobacco shops in Harrisburg:

http://www.magicyellow.com/category/Cigar_Cigarette_and_Tobacco_Dealers_Retail/Harrisburg_PA.html

Or they can operate a nursing home or day care. Or even more crazy, they can go to a bar or casino. Weird. Did anyone read this article?

Smokers still have more options than people who want to drink. But oh, Boo-Hiss, someone needs a smoke. America's a hypocrite because they won't let you smoke where ever you want just like they won't let you eat and consume alcohol where ever you want. Freedom is crumbling, etc, etc...

[ilovemovies]

Originally posted by QUENTIN
No shit? I've been to Downingtown, I have a good friend in college who lives there. He went to Downingtown East. Small world. Doesn't Bam Margera live near you?


I think Bam lives in West Chester. Or lived. I thought I remember hearing from my brother that he was banned from West Chester or something? I can't remember. I never met him but one of my younger brothers has.

And I went to DHS too but I graduated in 2001 which was the year before they split into East and West



And Shoe, I looked at mapquest, Scranton is like a 2 hour drive from Downingtown. It's right next to Lionville and Exton and Thorndale and Coastville and is a suburb of Philadelphia and Lancaster City.

[shoe1985]

[i]Freedom is crumbling, etc, etc... [/B]

I wouldn't say our freedoms are crumbling. We are improving our futures by getting rid of stupid freedoms that people take for granted. People get behind the wheel after getting wasted, they are allowed to drive if they don't get caught. They can drive after only a certain number of beers too, don't over the limit. Their judgement could still be impaired because not everyone can consume the same amount without being impaired.

Humans need some type of laws to keep us from being animals.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by ilovemovies
And Shoe, I looked at mapquest, Scranton is like a 2 hour drive from Downingtown. It's right next to Lionville and Exton and Thorndale and Coastville and is a suburb of Philadelphia and Lancaster City.

Interesting, I have no idea where those places are. Well I know where Philly is. Amazing how you live in a state your whole life and still don't know a lot of the places in it.

[The Postmaster General]

Originally posted by shoe1985
I wouldn't say our freedoms are crumbling. We are improving our futures by getting rid of stupid freedoms that people take for granted. People get behind the wheel after getting wasted, they are allowed to drive if they don't get caught. They can drive after only a certain number of beers too, don't over the limit. Their judgement could still be impaired because not everyone can consume the same amount without being impaired.

Bingo again. Why is it that these smokers get compared to like blacks at the back of the bus? This is why I have so much to say, because I've listened to this madness for so long. Granted, my friends, most of whom smoke are like militant smokers who think that because they want to inhale tobacco smoke that they should be able roll the flag up in tobacco and light it on fire because fuck all the pussies who whine, this is America and they'll do what they damn well think they should.




[b]Humans need some type of laws to keep us from being animals. [/B

Well, now you're just taking it too far. I wouldn't go into all of that. The fact of the matter is that we have laws for all sorts of shit. Why is smoking one of those things that rally nonsmokers together to fight to oppression. There's another thread here where people are saying Muslims shouldn't pray in schools. Usually, I don't say this kind of stuff, but I think it's sad that we live in a society where there are more people fighting for someone's right to smoke than there are their right to pray according to their beliefs.

[ilovemovies]

Originally posted by shoe1985
Interesting, I have no idea where those places are. Well I know where Philly is. Amazing how you live in a state your whole life and still don't know a lot of the places in it.

I'm sure you know where the King of Prussia mall is. It is, afterall, I believe the 4th biggest mall in the world and the second in this country, if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway, it's like a 40 minute drive from where I live to the King of Prussia mall.



And I don't know why people bitch about. You can still smoke. Just has to be in YOUR property. I think that's pretty damn fair. The government isn't telling you that you can't do it. It's just making it better for those of us who are nonsmokers and can't stand the smell of smoke. I think it's about damn time that this happening. I'm of the mind that you should be able to do whatever you want to do as long as it doesn't infringe on other people's right. Smoking does infringe on other people's right because it's annoying, not to mention potentially harmful. But you can still smoke. It just has to be in your house or car or whatever other property of yours.

And you know what else I hate? When smokers throw their cigarette butts outside their window. Police should crack down on that shit. And they should be heavily fined cause that just pisses me off.

[shoe1985]

Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove
[b]Humans need some type of laws to keep us from being animals. [/B

Well, now you're just taking it too far. I wouldn't go into all of that. The fact of the matter is that we have laws for all sorts of shit. Why is smoking one of those things that rally nonsmokers together to fight to oppression. There's another thread here where people are saying Muslims shouldn't pray in schools. Usually, I don't say this kind of stuff, but I think it's sad that we live in a society where there are more people fighting for someone's right to smoke than there are their right to pray according to their beliefs.

I don't mind people praying, but hey you have time after work and school, go then. But that is the other topic.

Nonsmokers are getting sick of the way smokers act. Like movies said, they will throw their cigs out their windows. I know of people that have been hit by them, and they got a small burn from it. They are sick of the smell. You try to live a healthy life, go into public, and get entrenched with smoke because smokers all seem to go in one area, a place many people need to use. Like at college, try to get into a building. The smokers cover the entrances and puff away.

Smoking is not even a right, it is a freedom. You abuse that freedom, it gets taken away. Look at a little kid, you give them a toy. If they use that toy well, they can keep using it. If they were to hit their siblings with this toy, it is taken away.