if you must blame someone, don't blame Rob Zombie

[RavenBlade]

allow me to enlighten you all, it's not Rob Zombies fault, well, not entirely
but if you are looking for someone to blame for the mess called Halloween
(Which I loved by the way) blame Malek Akkad and the Weinstein Brothers,
The Weinstein bros, because they hired Rob Zombie, and Malek because he
wanted to go back to Smith's Grove, every script submitted to Akkad all
took place in Smiths Grove, eventually the idea gave birth to do a prequel
and a re-imagining or remake if you will, a massive undertaking done by
Mr. Zombie, who held the utmost respect for the original, but to the
detractors of which there are many, Zombies writing skills are sorely lacking,
maybe they are, but not to me. Sure there's oddball cheesy dialog sprinkled
here and there, but that doesn't deter from the fun on the screen, the carnage. Rob made the right decision in updating a classic, and before you come lashing out at me with clubs, stakes, and razor blades, here me out, Michael is brutal,not that i didn't mind Mikes subtle stalk scenes, which we get one in 2007's, but all is not lost, the upcoming sequel will change all this.


i have more to say, and it is my hope that you see who the real culprits are
behind your mess, my heaven.

Raven

[JJFlamingo]

Wha?? :confused:

[MISFITS_Fiend]

Yeah, okay, I...

What?

(seconding the previous post)

[RavenBlade]

listen Rob Zombie is just as much to blame, for the mess called Halloween 2007 but so are the others behind the scenes, like Malek Akkad and the Weinstein brothers, as they all in conjunction wanted a reboot to the franchise.
Every script that came into the Weinstein Bros office and to Maleks office
had them soley deal with them going back to Smiths Grove, but what they
didn't tell you is if it dealt with a young Michael, or Adult. Just that they wanted to go back to Smiths Grove, eventually the idea gave birth to do a prequel and a remake to the original Halloween. Hence your mess ( you didn't like it)my heaven ( I loved it ) You see, you're blaming the wrong person for that mess you saw up on the screen, blame should have layed with the Weinstein Bros, and Malek Akkad. The Weinstein's for hiring Mr. Zombie, and Mr. Akkad for allowing it to go this far, when there was a wealth of material to sift through. Now I like Rob Zombies work, but even though I enjoyed H2007, I still picked up on the lazy writing, mis-direction, but as a die hard Halloween fan, we're thankful that we at least get another Halloween outing. You don't buy into the flaws of the film, you just sit back and enjoy the ride.
Another place Zombie screwed up is the time line, allow me to elaborate.
As with all remakes, save The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, have been taken place in present day, with Halloween 2007 it starts off in 1978, young mikes
years lead to present day circa maybe 2003. Which would explain the cellphone use by Linda, though I have yet to see that part, and I watched it
like 8 times already.

Thus concludes my theory. I don't know how to make myself any clearer. :confused: :D but I'd love to try again if you still don't have a clue.
Just keep in mind all three names I mentioned are at fault Not just
Rob Zombie.

Raven

[teenkiller]

Well I'll blame the four of them for doing a remake but I'll blame Rob alone for turning the family into a bunch of white trash low lives. That worked for House/Rejects but for me it just didn't cut it for Halloween. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

[MISFITS_Fiend]

Amen. I thought Michael Myers was much scarier when he came from a suburban, white-bread upbringing. Hell, if I had to live with his family I'd probably have killed all of them too. It was just too much.

[Duke Nukem]

I blame the terrorists responsible for Moustapha Akkad's death. Had he never been caught in those horrible bombings, I don't believe he would allowed "Halloween" to be remade and certainly not by somebody like Rob Zombie. It's the terrorists actions that led to the desecration of Halloween. If such tragic circumstances never occured, we might have wound up with any further sequels better off than the remake. I'm burned by those terrorist's actions, because if it weren't for them, we'd at least have the naive possibility of a decent ending sequel like "Halloween: The Blood of Michael Myers." Now, I know it will never happen.

[MISFITS_Fiend]

I don't think he was "targeted", he (and his daughter as well as other wedding party members) happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. That being said, yeah he would have stopped this shit cold.

[robk]

WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!





On the whole, it pleases me to say that Zombie's Halloween isn't as deplorable as The Devil's Rejects. Before you all start to think I have Zombie-bias, I want to say that I enjoyed House of 1000 Corpses, I just didn't think Rejects had as much wit(like A Clockwork Orange) or any suspense(like Hooper's The Texas Chainsaw Massacre).
Still, some parts of the film pleasantly surprised me. When I first heard that Michaels' mom was going to be a stripper, my first thought was "Oh, please"
However, she was arguably the most sympathetic character in the film. I must say, though, that I saw Mike's stepdad's "She gotta nice dumper on her" coming a mile away.
Danielle Harris was cleverly cast as Annie(a la Annette O'Toole as Martha Kent on Smallville), and while I like that she(apparently) survived, I did roll my eyes :rolleyes:at the fact that Lynda meets her demise having sex at the Myers' place.
Sadly, I thought genre pros Malcolm McDowell, Brad Dourif, and Dee Wallace-Stone were all wasted in their roles.
I also stratched my head when Michael takes his sweet time dragging Laurie to their home instead of just throwing those pictures at her right then and there(You'll recall that the Empire Strikes Back-inspired angle of Laurie and Michael's link wasn't brought up at all until Halloween II).

On the whole, the remake was better than I expected, but still not up to par with the remakes of The Thing, The Fly, and War of the Worlds.

[PSU80]

Rob Zombie's problem is that he has tried to make the same movie three times. All his movies are same (shitty) and of course his latest victim had to be one of the greatest horror films of all time. I thought I knew what it was like to hate a movie until I saw Rob Zombie's Halloween. I knew all along that he would fuck it up and he did. What else can you expect from a guy whose best music was a techno remix from the Matrix?

[SatansPuppet]

Well I'll blame the four of them for doing a remake but I'll blame Rob alone for turning the family into a bunch of white trash low lives. That worked for House/Rejects but for me it just didn't cut it for Halloween. Well thats all for now GOoD JOURNEY my fellow schmoes.

Thankyou!!! so much for respecting the original... there was no need to turn what was a Normal Family in the original into a bunch of whorish hill billies who will shag anything with a pulse be it stranger or relative!! :x

The family turned me off to the concept completely and McDowells performance was so aneamic that it lacked a pulse.... :D

[a7xfan]

actually i thought mcdowell (awesome name) did good with what he had to work with, he was underused, as was the sheriff, now if your gonna cast brad dourif in a film....you fucking use him. he is an amazing actor and a horror great.

i actually blame the 4 of them for even thinking 'oh hey, i know...halloween needs a remake' but i put most the blame on zombie for writing an atrocious script, apart from a few funny scenes, it was awful. and for making everyone a fucking hilbilly.

the film was too rushed, should never of happened. and wasted potentially great characters

[MisterTwister]

I don't find it as terrible as many fans say it is and would take it over Halloween 5, Halloween H20 and Halloween Resurrection any day of the week.

[ManBearPig]

I think the weinstein brothers and dimension pictures as a whole don't know what to do with the halloween series. Ever since they got the rights before halloween 6 the films have been all over the place. A disjointed entry with part 6, scream ripoff with H20 and resurrection had no reason for being made.
I know halloween 5 is no masterpiece but the quality overall has dove since part 6. Dont completely blame rob zombie. What happens next, remake halloween 2 or a new entry?

[SteeleDude]

The idea of a middle class boy being a ticking time bomb who just goes off one night for no reason was really pretty scary. Consider all the true suburbia stories of families who seem so happy only to end in murder. Husbands often come home and kill their families in those scenarios. No one knows why for sure. Like that cop a couple of years ago who murdered his wife in front of their two year old. That is gut wrenchingly sick, and I think Carpenter was making commentary on this small strange aspect of upper middle class life. How many time bombs do we have ticking out there? Remember the cemetery man from Halloween telling Loomis the story about the dad who kills his family? It seems to be an issue thematically in the first movie.

All of that is far superior to the stripper mom, verbally abusive dad, and bully syndrome crap. Realistic or not it didn't ring true. It was contrived, stupid, and giving Myers a background made no sense. In fact the hulking silent giant of the second part of the movie felt completely different from the kid--like two different movies tacked together.

The only thing Zombie got right was the mask. Myers was way too big. He had the ability to teleport. If he came into a room he'd kill EVERYONE in it. This just was so un-Michael Myers. And every girl who was killed had a scene of crawling wounded across the floor while Myers stalked her. Linda, Danielle Harris, Lauri's mom, it was damned annoying.

As to who is to blame? Rob Zombie shat that turd out. He's to blame. I can't believe he is still getting financed to make movies after House of 1000 Corpses. That movie was terrible and multiple studios passed on it. It should've stayed that way.

[SteeleDude]

I just rented the remake. I haven't watched it since the theater and I thought maybe I was being unfair.

I found it even more terrible this time. I was treated to some new footage this time too. Some kind of rape that sets off Michael? WTF.

This movie is the worst pile of trash ever. I'd rather watch the theatrical cut of H6 again. Hell I'd rather watch H8 again. Give me Busta Rhymes over Zombie. That's saying a lot cuz I love metal and hate rap.

[g1ng3rsnap9ed]

I'm just glad Danielle Harris gets to live,and her top doesn't!

[shoe1985]

Wow, I didn't see this thread popping up again. As for the blame game, it is Zombie's fault. He had 100% creative control. They pretty much said, here is so much money, go make a remake of Halloween. You can blame others, but this was a Rob Zombie film. Everything on screen was his ideas.

As for if Moustapha was alive this wouldn't have been made talk, the remake idea has been in the phases for a while. It was going to happen sooner or later, I would have preferred later, but what can you do? I am shocked they didn't rush out a sequel since this remake did very well at the B.O. I heard they were prepping one, but I guess it has been put on hold.

The problem many are having now is where do you take the series? The old series is dead, and would confuse the general public if you go back there, so that is out the window. The remake had a very poor reception, except for a small group of people. Would that group be enough to generate a profit for us? Doubtful, so now what?

[a7xfan]

Wow, I didn't see this thread popping up again. As for the blame game, it is Zombie's fault. He had 100% creative control. They pretty much said, here is so much money, go make a remake of Halloween. You can blame others, but this was a Rob Zombie film. Everything on screen was his ideas.

As for if Moustapha was alive this wouldn't have been made talk, the remake idea has been in the phases for a while. It was going to happen sooner or later, I would have preferred later, but what can you do? I am shocked they didn't rush out a sequel since this remake did very well at the B.O. I heard they were prepping one, but I guess it has been put on hold.

The problem many are having now is where do you take the series? The old series is dead, and would confuse the general public if you go back there, so that is out the window. The remake had a very poor reception, except for a small group of people. Would that group be enough to generate a profit for us? Doubtful, so now what?


yeah, the series is pretty much fucked, nothing can revive it now,i would look out of place, and would bomb badly. better leave this franchise alone, before anything else has a shit on its legacy.

[Duke Nukem]

Wow, I didn't see this thread popping up again. As for the blame game, it is Zombie's fault. He had 100% creative control. They pretty much said, here is so much money, go make a remake of Halloween. You can blame others, but this was a Rob Zombie film. Everything on screen was his ideas.

As for if Moustapha was alive this wouldn't have been made talk, the remake idea has been in the phases for a while. It was going to happen sooner or later, I would have preferred later, but what can you do? I am shocked they didn't rush out a sequel since this remake did very well at the B.O. I heard they were prepping one, but I guess it has been put on hold.

The problem many are having now is where do you take the series? The old series is dead, and would confuse the general public if you go back there, so that is out the window. The remake had a very poor reception, except for a small group of people. Would that group be enough to generate a profit for us? Doubtful, so now what?

I disagree. I've written my own "Halloween" sequel, it kept to the rules established by "H20," and it continued to disregard H4-6 (and obviously, the remake). If it, or any other such sequel, were made today, all you have to do is tell the public on movie websites like this that "it ignores the remake and goes back to 'Halloween's 1, 2, H20 and Resurrection." For the fans who read the latest on every new movie, courtesy of Arrow and Joblo (as well as the numerous other movie websites), that's how the word will start getting out. That's one easy way of clearing the dust and ashes left over by the remake.

For the less casual fans, you're right. They may be confused and assume it has to do with the remake. But, you have to give the mainstream audience some credit. If a sequel to H1-2-H20-8 was suddenly being advertised on TV, regular folks will/should see the difference between it and the remake. Different characters, different scenario, lighter tone than Zombie's grungy one, etc.

The most important thing for it and every movie is that itis advertised well with good previews. If they like what they see, they'll check it out. And before the movie would begin playing in every theater, this is the message I would present on the dark screen before the movie begins: The following film is intended as a sequel to "Halloween" (1978), "Halloween II" (1981), "Halloween: H20" (1998) and "Halloween: Resurrection" (2002). Fans and non-fans would immediately shrug, "Ohhhhh...", and sigh of relief that it truly has nothing to do with the remake.

This is another easy way to get "Halloween" back on track. A lot of fans seem to feel that it will take rocket science for the series to move on after the remake, and even after Laurie Strode was killed off in H8. It doesn't. Check out my "Halloween: The Blood of Michael Myers" thread in the general Horror Talk forums. You might like what you see.

I was not aware that "H-remake" talk was going on even before Moustapha Akkad's death. At the same time, I have a hard believing that he would have let Rob Zombie of all people on board for it. Sure, somebody very different from John Carpenter's style. But Rob Zombie? He is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY out there for "Halloween" and the remake proved it. At least for me and a number of fans.

Moustapha Akkad's son Malek (whose been on board as a producer since at least H8) may have been more in tune with hiring Rob Zombie. He could be at fault, as well as definitely Rob Zombie.

I actually put everything I knew aside and completely opened my mind for the remake. Even after the abysmal "The Devil's Rejects." My problem with the remake is pretty much the same as all of yours. I opened up my mind to see a fresh point of view of the Myers clan. What disappointed me was how 1 to 2 dimensational the content ranged. If they were real people with real problems, it could have been a good remake. I am willing to admit that. Any other director with a coherent vision could have come up with a better, more effective remake.

I don't believe that the remake and any similar sequels of its own are the final nails in the coffin. If you want see closure to at least H1-2-H20-8, I believe it can still be done, and for real if the studio did it right.

[shoe1985]

Duke, the Weinsteins have wanted a remake since they acquired the rights, Moustapha didn't want it. He was considering a Michael vs Pinhead movie, but decided it wasn't right for the series, even with Carpenter coming back to direct it with Clive Barker writing it.

The old series is dead, and will always be now. We have many fan fiction, but in reality, that is all they are. They provide fans with things they want and are not getting from the series.

The studio has moved forward, and everyone else needs to now. Given the right people, a sequel to the remake could really go anywhere. Remember, we did not see the bullet actually kill Michael. He could be taken to the hospital, and have his life saved. If given the rights to the story, it could be similar to H2, but this time Michael is the patient, and escapes the hospital on his way to find Laurie.

It is time move on.

[Duke Nukem]

I am fully aware of the Michael/Pinhead deal. I am aware of a lot of trivia with all these old franchises. However, my ears must have immune to all talk concerning the Weinsteins wanting to re-do the original since acquiring the rights. I am not surprised to hear that Akkad was against it.

Regardless, the point I tried to make still stands. If they *did* go back to H1-2-H20-8 (or even H1-2-4-5-6, which is even more unlikely) with a project they felt comfortable with...all they and the filmmakers have to do is make their rounds on websites like this and tell the fans,"...it ignores the remake and goes back t H1-2-...". That, and starting the movie with the message, "The following film is intended as a sequel to...", etc. Any confusion by fans/nonfans is gone.

I do realize you're trying to make a point in saying that, while they *could* try doing that, they ultimately won't. I am very aware of that. That is what inspired me to finally write my own sequel. You're right, in the long run, it appears that the H-films of the past are dead. And given the damage already done, perhaps it's better leaving it at that. It's still a shame and also a waste, though.





SPOILER FOR THE H-REMAKE...



















...It's coming...














I was confused by your last thought. The bullet "killing" Michael, you're talking about the remake again, right? If it weren't for the cut-cut-cut editing, it was next-to-impossile to tell. My own eyes are telling me that Laurie did shoot Michael and kill him. I even thought I saw his head explode from the shot. That could have been a symptom of the seizure I contracted from the directing, who knows. You could be right. This could be just another excuse to officially make this a new H-franchise. Which is what I've been afraid of. They could go anywere after that ending. It will never end at this point. Indeed, this series may be fucked.

















SPOILERS OVER!!!

[shoe1985]

If they wanted to continue the new series, they could. Even if he was shot in the head, people do live these days, so he could too. Or he could have been hit in the shoulder. It is nice to come up with ideas for the previous series, but it won't happen, so time to think of ideas for the new one.

[JasonC07]

Moustapha Akkad let the original franchise get completely butchered. It needed a reboot more than another sequel.

[miamita]

I do BLAME Zombie for this movie. Well I enjoyed the second half so I am speaking more about the second half. I knew the first half of the film was going to be crap after I read the script that leaked out which was his first draft which wasn't much different from the film he eventually released. I also didn't like how he wrote alot of the characters in both halfs and how he changed them. To me all the teens were generic and I didn't like Annie (even though I am a fan of Dainelle Harris's), Linda, Dr. Loomis or Sheriff Brackett (same as Dainelle fan of Brad Douriffs) in this flick. The only character upgrade I liked was Laurie. To me I blame Zombies poor writing abilities with the dialog and not enough time to flesh out the first one. He tried to do too much by having a prequel and a remake all in one film with not that much time. He is a great visual director but should have had someone do the dialog for him while he told the guy what he wanted to happen in the scenes.

[countchocula]

I blame all of us for watching the movie. I'm not a Halloween fanboy, and I don't really know why I'm in this forum, but for what it's worth, I enjoy about half of the series (the first half, of course). I've lost a ton of respect for Zombie over the past few years. His music is dry, his screenwriting is one-dimensional, and his films cater to "retro" geeks who cum in their pants when any filmmaker says that they're making an old-school grindhouse flick. Throwbacks are no longer novel. Do something new and cool that restores credibility to the slasher tropes that we've all come to love.

[Elgyn]

And before the movie would begin playing in every theater, this is the message I would present on the dark screen before the movie begins: The following film is intended as a sequel to "Halloween" (1978), "Halloween II" (1981), "Halloween: H20" (1998) and "Halloween: Resurrection" (2002).



Duke, come on.
No studio (let alone Dimension) would do that.
And if anything, that would confuse the casual moviegoer even MORE cause they`d be scratching their heads trying to remember what all happened in those older sequels. Remember the casual moviegoer is not a horror buff like us.
And the studio is ultimatley more interested in the casual moviegoer......as Dimension has shown us again and again.

[evilneverdies66]

im sorry but zombie shouldnt quit his day job i prefer him as a muscian rather than a horror director his first flick was a direct rip off of texas chainsaw massacre 2 and devils rejects more psycho southern crap whoppee ,and what is with these guys from jersey obsessed with the south anyway zombie ,zakk wylde ?,please no more rob zombie movies he fucked up halloween and now hes gonna fuck up part 2 what is this world coming:D too geez!

[LordSimen]

The Devil's Rejects has more in common with Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 than House of 1000 Corpses. House was more like the first Chainsaw Massacre.

[PSU80]

Who cares anymore? After the last five years or so of horror I don't even really watch anything that genre has to offer.

As for Zombie's Halloween, did you guys and gals really expect anything other than what you got? If you did than I must say with all due respect, maybe some of you need to open your eyes to his other work. It all sucked, and none of it is really HORROR.

[joyhorror]

I don't see the "mess" that some of you are talking about.

Rob Zombie put together a great companion peice for the original Halloween. Nothing will ever touch the original, the be all end all. But, Zombie put together something different , he did his style ( and that's not a bad thing ). I'm really looking 4ward to next week's Halloween II.

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