Official UFC/PRIDE Fighting/MMA Thread

[the saw is family]

The only good thing about that XC card was Lawler/Smith pre-finish. What a solid battle those two had and I can't wait for a rematch. XC, I'm sure though, got exactly what they wanted out of Kimbo for the premiere. I must have had 10-15 friends over for the fight, who aren't heavy into MMA but love the Kimbo Youtube videos and they enjoyed what they say. As much as it pains me to say (because I think Kimbo is garbage in MMA), but to average fans, Kimbo is what they want to see and he'll get more viewers than something legit like UFC, WEC, or Pride. It's just how it is. Bad for the sport? Probably. Good for XC? Yes so as long as the average fan keeps tuning in, I doubt they give a shit if real fans think he's garbage.

The WEC card, on the other hand, loved it top to bottom. Torres is out of this world though I feel if the fight wasn't stopped, Madea would've won. Torres had great defense, but he was rarely on the attack. It was always Madea coming to Torres. What can be said about Faber/Pulver aside from it needing a rematch? What a great fight.

i kinda disagree with you on torres/maeda, torres was fighting on alot of emotion and anger so for every attack maeda threw torres would come storming back with a flurry of strikes. torres worked his guard to perfection as well, constantly looking for subs and providing more offense from his back than maeda did in top position. plus as you could tell from maeda's horribly swollen eye torres jab was crisp and getting through at almost every oppurtunity. that's not to take anything away from maeda he's a great fighter and a warrior but torres is just superior.

[the saw is family]

You guys are being awfully hard on Kimbo, he went from bare knucle street brawls to MMA with no martial arts experience. He's now being trained by Bas Rutten and you can really see how much he's learning, especially in this last fight. If Bas deems him worthy, who are we to judge?

what did he show in that fight? that he doesn't have proper conditioning. that he has no ground game what so ever? what about when he showed that he he isn't even aware that you close your guard when going for a guillotine choke which is something you learn in your first week of jiu jitsu class. he showed that he has no sprawl. he also showed that his legendary power is slightly suspect by not being able to take out james thompson early, the very same james thompson who's been koed repeatedly and probably has the most suspect chin in all of mma. i'm not a kimbo hater i just don't think he's very skilled yet and should not be the representative of mma on a national network. if exc wants to have him headline the showtime shows then go ahead, but having someone who's skills are that minimal as the headliner on a national network is shameful.

[Mopar Fanatic]

EliteXC getting deservedly destroyed on the front page of Yahoo!.

http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/1:bleacher_repo551:938b00bdec780e20cdd35448449b058 8

[Mopar Fanatic]

Onward

Edit(better source)

With Mir slated to coach TUF, Gabe Gonzaga will make his return against the juggernaut that is Justin McCully.

http://mmamania.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/ufc86.jpg

UFC 86 card now stands at

Quinton Jackson vs. Forrest Griffin
Josh Koscheck vs. Chris Lytle
Joe Stevenson vs. Gleison Tibau
Tyson Griffin vs. Marcus Aurelio
Patrick Cote vs. Ricardo Almeida
Justin McCully vs. Gabriel Gonzaga
Justin Buchholz vs. Corey Hill
Melvin Guillard vs. Dennis Siver
Cole Miller vs. Jorge Gurgel
Ben Saunders vs. Jared Rollins

[DarkKnight81]

You guys are being awfully hard on Kimbo, he went from bare knucle street brawls to MMA with no martial arts experience. He's now being trained by Bas Rutten and you can really see how much he's learning, especially in this last fight. If Bas deems him worthy, who are we to judge?

That makes absolutely no sense. You're the type of viewer Gary Shaw is targeting, one that will just accept Kimbo as the next big thing simply because he says so. The guy has accomplished nothing in MMA to warrant him being in the main event for the debut of MMA on network tv. The guy showed nothing in that fight, any decent heavyweight in the UFC would annihilate Kimbo. Aside from a few fighters like Murilo Rua and Robbie Lawler, EliteXC is a joke and so is Kimbo as long as he in there fighting nobodies. I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt for accomplishing nothing. Look at a guy like Cheik Kongo, probably middle of the road UFC heavyweight, and he would make Kimbo look like an idiot.

[DarkKnight81]

While I'm here, predictions for UFC 85 anyone?

Alves over Hughes via TKO Rd. 2
Bisping over Day via TKO Rd. 1
Swick over Davis via UD
Marquardt over Leites via Sub Rd.2
Vera over Werdum via TKO Rd. 2
Rivera over Kampmann via TKO Rd. 1
Tavares over Wiman via Sub Rd. 1
Carneiro over Burns via Sub Rd. 1
Cane over Lambert via UD
Taylor over Laudin via KO Rd. 1
Sanchez over Hardonk via UD

[Mopar Fanatic]

Hughes
Bisping
Davis by total standup domination
Marquardt
Vera
Kampmann
Tavares
Taylor
Sanchez

[the saw is family]

hughes over alves by ud.
bisping over day 2nd rd tko
swick over davis by ud (one of the toughest fights to pick so far this year)
marquardt over leites by ud
vera over werdum by ud (another tough call wouldn't be surprised at all if werdum takes this)
rivera over kampmann by tko rd 3(i would be picking kampmann but his long layoff and cage rust will effect him i think)
tavares over wiman tko rd 2
carneiro over burns via armbar rd 1
cane over lambert tko rd 1
taylor over liaudin by rnc rd 2
sanchez over hardonk via ud

[xseanymacx]

Can't wait for Griffin/Jackson!

I just watched the fight again on my DVR, between Torres and Maeda, Maeda landed more shots than Torres through the first couple rounds. He also defended Torres' sub attempts greatly. I thought he had the upper hand until the eye started eating itself:p

[DarkKnight81]

I think there will be Torres/Maeda rematch considering how close it was and how it got stopped. I know a lot of people want to see a Faber/Pulver rematch but I don't see the point. Even though he didn't finish him, Faber won every round fairly convincingly. Pulver fought well but it wasn't nearly as close as the Torres/Maeda fight.

[Salieri]

You guys are being awfully hard on Kimbo, he went from bare knucle street brawls to MMA with no martial arts experience. He's now being trained by Bas Rutten and you can really see how much he's learning, especially in this last fight. If Bas deems him worthy, who are we to judge?

I didn't really see that he learned anything. He got dominated on the ground by James Thompson, who's on the bottom level as far as ground skills goes. He doesn't have a good gas tank, and he's 34. He's too old to be just now learning all of this stuff and amounting to anything.

[Mopar Fanatic]

I think there will be Torres/Maeda rematch considering how close it was and how it got stopped. I know a lot of people want to see a Faber/Pulver rematch but I don't see the point. Even though he didn't finish him, Faber won every round fairly convincingly. Pulver fought well but it wasn't nearly as close as the Torres/Maeda fight.

Pulver lost the only chance of winning that fight by constantly letting Faber off the cage every time he had connected and had him cornered. He was just gassed by the end of RD.1, but his corner should've picked up on that.

Maeda and Torres was without a single doubt one of the best fights this year(if not the best). I figured it would be a war, but wasn't quite expecting what happened. They both showed excellent technique in multiple areas. Sure, it wasn't necessarily a technical war like Hansen-Uno or the recent Imanari-Mishima, but beautiful technique was utilized by both men on occasions throughout the fight. Hats off to both fighters. I think Manny Tapia should be up next, but Torres/Maeda rematch I could only hope is in the near future.

[X-Nightcrawler]

Huh.

My brother just got massively into this shit and bought 8 DVDs of UFC and the first 5 Pride DVDs. Enjoyable fighting most of the time. Mind you, I've only seen the first (and I mean the first, back to '93) tournies and it's fine.

I just really dislike Royce Gracie. Brazillian fighting styles bore the piss out of me in general, but I can't stand seeing this guy fight. Ken Shamrock makes far better shows.

Anyone else saw the first UFCs?

[Criminal Rock]

I own all the original 5 or 6 UFC's on DVD back home... Pretty cool stuff. I remember going to blockbuster and renting the newest UFC with my older brothers. Classic shit...

But I must disagree with you on BJJ. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is one of the most important aspects to the fighting game, that said, you probably shouldn't base your opinions on BJJ off the first 15 or so UFC's. It's a lot more exciting now then it was before.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gHPVJ4UaKQE

[X-Nightcrawler]

Jiu Jitsu in general bores me, though. I made the brazillian generalization because most diciplines hailing from there I don't really like (kapoeira, BJJ, tudo vale [if that's considered a dicipline], etc.).

I've been practicing chinese wushu (kung fu, southern style) for about a year and a half now, and I fucking love that dicipline, so I've fallen more with that sort of thing, and are familiar with it. And I don't like the ones that are based more formally on locks, grappling, and such so much (that includes Jiu Jitsu, judo and most aikido, though I like the latter), but that's probably because I'm totally ignorant about them. I still think the diciplines themselves are extremely respectable (except kapoeira, I just flat out dislike kapoeira), and extremely tough to learn, let alone master.

Though on UFC, I became totally bored with it because all the fucking Royce Gracie fights were the same fucking thing. It starts, Royce clings to the guy, full mounts, choke, it's over.

[the saw is family]

Jiu Jitsu in general bores me, though. I made the brazillian generalization because most diciplines hailing from there I don't really like (kapoeira, BJJ, tudo vale [if that's considered a dicipline], etc.).

I've been practicing chinese wushu (kung fu, southern style) for about a year and a half now, and I fucking love that dicipline, so I've fallen more with that sort of thing, and are familiar with it. And I don't like the ones that are based more formally on locks, grappling, and such so much (that includes Jiu Jitsu, judo and most aikido, though I like the latter), but that's probably because I'm totally ignorant about them. I still think the diciplines themselves are extremely respectable (except kapoeira, I just flat out dislike kapoeira), and extremely tough to learn, let alone master.

Though on UFC, I became totally bored with it because all the fucking Royce Gracie fights were the same fucking thing. It starts, Royce clings to the guy, full mounts, choke, it's over.


as for your feelings on jiu jitsu, i understand what you mean but the more you learn the more you appreciate it and if you train it you really really appreciate it. as for the old ufc's the sport has completely transformed itself since the days that royce gracie was dominant. it's a much more level playing field, there isn't the big disparity in talent, and most fighters now are trained in multiple disciplines instead of one. definitely check out the ufc's from really ufc 20 or above. the first 5 pride's also aren't that great but it really takes off later on. imo pride was the premier mixed martial arts even from 2002-2005. also when it comes to Brazilian fighters check out wanderlei silva and mauricio "shogun" rua two very exciting brazilian's whose fighting style is based very heavily on muay thai and striking.

[bourahioro]

As a mixed martial artist myself, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a VERY important asset to the fight game in the grand scheme of things. I've trained in other disciplines, and am currently training in BJJ and MMA - MMA itself is more of a refining art, you learn different stances, striking techniques, the sprawl among other things; BJJ is a different animal altogether, you learn great discipline, focus, and the most important aspects, the ground game, and submissions, you learn how to get in and out of situations, as well as become able to modify a situation in which you might well lose a fight, to your advantage.

There are less belt ranks in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu so you do NOT rank easily, there are no passes, and you don't advance unless you deserve as much. out of my last 6 fights, I've won 5, and 3 of those I credit DIRECTLY to my training in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. One win was by an omaplata, one was by an armbar, and the other was a kimura - BJJ might seem boring, but when you learn it, you find it's anything but. When you train in BJJ you notice all of the different mistakes your opponant is making, and how to capitalize on them.

[the saw is family]

As a mixed martial artist myself, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a VERY important asset to the fight game in the grand scheme of things. I've trained in other disciplines, and am currently training in BJJ and MMA - MMA itself is more of a refining art, you learn different stances, striking techniques, the sprawl among other things; BJJ is a different animal altogether, you learn great discipline, focus, and the most important aspects, the ground game, and submissions, you learn how to get in and out of situations, as well as become able to modify a situation in which you might well lose a fight, to your advantage.

There are less belt ranks in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu so you do NOT rank easily, there are no passes, and you don't advance unless you deserve as much. out of my last 6 fights, I've won 5, and 3 of those I credit DIRECTLY to my training in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. One win was by an omaplata, one was by an armbar, and the other was a kimura - BJJ might seem boring, but when you learn it, you find it's anything but. When you train in BJJ you notice all of the different mistakes your opponant is making, and how to capitalize on them.

didn't know you fought, that's pretty cool. i've been training no-gi bjj for over 4 years now, and have been recently started training muay thai. once you start training bjj it really opens up your appreciation of the ground game.

[SpoonMan999]

Jeez, you guys act like I insulted your mothers for merely suggesting Kimbo deserves a chance. You can see he's learning because he's not just throwing punches and relying on brute strength. He's been trying for submissions and he got a pretty damn good reversal on Thompson in that fight while he was on the ground. And to say he has only fought nobodies is to forget he's beaten Ray Mercer and Tank Abbot who are definately not nobodies.

[the saw is family]

Jeez, you guys act like I insulted your mothers for merely suggesting Kimbo deserves a chance. You can see he's learning because he's not just throwing punches and relying on brute strength. He's been trying for submissions and he got a pretty damn good reversal on Thompson in that fight while he was on the ground. And to say he has only fought nobodies is to forget he's beaten Ray Mercer and Tank Abbot who are definately not nobodies.

i don't think anyone is saying he doesn't deserve a chance, it's just he doesn't deserve to headline the first mma event on network television. also ray mercer as a boxer=somebody, ray mercer in an mma fight=nobody (that fight was also an exhibition) as for tank i respect him for getting in there and fighting and he did help grow mma back in it's infancy, but that said tank is not a good fighter and hasn't ever been a complete fighter. tank is a puncher with a touch of wrestling and that's it. tank's record is 9-14 with him losing 8 of his last 9 fights, i'm not saying tank is a nobody he has a name and for some reason is still a draw. tank lacks skill as does bo cantrell as does james thompson for the most part, kimbo has beaten three fighters that lack skill, so the hype behind him is completely unfounded. once again not a kimbo hater, i just don't think he deserves the billing and position he is currently in.

[bourahioro]

No offense, but Tank Abbot is a name. Tank has no discipline, and figures his name, and brawling are going to get him through every fight - which is why his fight record blows.

I'm not against Kimbo, but he's just a better newer version of Tank Abbot. At least Kimbo is training with Bas Rutten and attempting some actual form of practice and discipline though.

[SpoonMan999]

i don't think anyone is saying he doesn't deserve a chance, it's just he doesn't deserve to headline the first mma event on network television. also ray mercer as a boxer=somebody, ray mercer in an mma fight=nobody (that fight was also an exhibition) as for tank i respect him for getting in there and fighting and he did help grow mma back in it's infancy, but that said tank is not a good fighter and hasn't ever been a complete fighter. tank is a puncher with a touch of wrestling and that's it. tank's record is 9-14 with him losing 8 of his last 9 fights, i'm not saying tank is a nobody he has a name and for some reason is still a draw. tank lacks skill as does bo cantrell as does james thompson for the most part, kimbo has beaten three fighters that lack skill, so the hype behind him is completely unfounded. once again not a kimbo hater, i just don't think he deserves the billing and position he is currently in.

I actually agree, Scott Smith and Robbie Lawler should have been the headliner, it was a title match after all. And just because it's Kimbo doesn't mean it needs to be the main event. Also, Ray Mercer and Kimbo are kind of on the same leve there where they both come from a background where submission and your ground game mean nothing. I'd say Kimbo beating Mercer is a big step for him, considering they're backgrounds. And I honestly think Kimbo has some potential to be a good MMA fighter and making his way into more serious fights. Do I see him holding the UFC heavy weight title? No, but I have been wrong before.

[bourahioro]

didn't know you fought, that's pretty cool. i've been training no-gi bjj for over 4 years now, and have been recently started training muay thai. once you start training bjj it really opens up your appreciation of the ground game.


The beauty of BJJ (gi and no-gi) is that, if you already have experience in other methods of fighting, or disciplines, BJJ rounds you out like a motherfucker, and makes you far more dangerous, because it seems to meld to your already existing fight knowledge, improving you and your game.

[X-Nightcrawler]

As a mixed martial artist myself, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a VERY important asset to the fight game in the grand scheme of things. I've trained in other disciplines, and am currently training in BJJ and MMA - MMA itself is more of a refining art, you learn different stances, striking techniques, the sprawl among other things; BJJ is a different animal altogether, you learn great discipline, focus, and the most important aspects, the ground game, and submissions, you learn how to get in and out of situations, as well as become able to modify a situation in which you might well lose a fight, to your advantage.

There are less belt ranks in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu so you do NOT rank easily, there are no passes, and you don't advance unless you deserve as much. out of my last 6 fights, I've won 5, and 3 of those I credit DIRECTLY to my training in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. One win was by an omaplata, one was by an armbar, and the other was a kimura - BJJ might seem boring, but when you learn it, you find it's anything but. When you train in BJJ you notice all of the different mistakes your opponant is making, and how to capitalize on them.

Don't misunderstand. I find BJJ boring in UFC, not by itself. But that's cool that you're a MMA as well, didn't know that.

[xseanymacx]

Slightly off-topic...I'm planning on starting up some training within the next few months, I feel the discipline and focus learned through it will translate well to other aspects of my life, and I was wondering what I should start with? I have no previous experience. I'm 6'1" with a 73" reach so I was thinking kickboxing or muay thai boxing for starters. Eventually picking up BJJ or another ground type.

[DarkKnight81]

Jeez, you guys act like I insulted your mothers for merely suggesting Kimbo deserves a chance. You can see he's learning because he's not just throwing punches and relying on brute strength. He's been trying for submissions and he got a pretty damn good reversal on Thompson in that fight while he was on the ground. And to say he has only fought nobodies is to forget he's beaten Ray Mercer and Tank Abbot who are definately not nobodies.

Kimbo deserves a chance, but no more than anybody else. To have him headline the very first main event on network tv was ridiculous. In modern MMA, Ray mercer and tank are nobodies. James Thompson was a good opponent for him, but NOT as the main event. The only reasonable explanation is that this is EliteXC and they can't provide anything better. The fact is Gary Shaw, president of EXC, is trying to bill this street fighter in his mid 30's as the next great heavyweight. If Kimbo is longing for a chance at stardom and to be a legit premier heavyweight, put him in the UFC octagon and let him fight his way to super stardom. But you can't polish a piece of shit and sell it to me until I've seen what it can do and thus far I'm not sold.

[Mopar Fanatic]

The problem with Kimbo is that he's fought nothing but shitty fighters. Meanwhile he's brining lots of attention to the sport, because people are intrigued by his story. Dana fucked up and actually just should have kept his fucking mouth shut and not have made any comments about Kimbo at all. All it does is give Kimbo even more undeserved attention. Let Kimbo win a few more fights, then comment. Any gnub shithead mma fighter can call out a vet and make a name for himself.

Why is everyone here so quick to discredit Mercer and Tank? that's because they're both one dimensional. Abbott is just an explosive street fighter whose been washed up for years now. Although Tank has wrestling skills he doesn't seem to utilize them. Mercer being one dimensional as well only with boxing.

He's a tired topic and he's not even worth discussion until he beats a legitimate opponent. Which isn't a washed up boxer and an over the hill Tank Abbott.

[SpoonMan999]

Again, I agreed that he shouldn't have been the main event. The title match with Lawler and Smith should have been the headliner, I'm just saying Kimbo has some potential and deserves his shot. It's not his fault that Shaw is using him like his golden ticket, can you really blame Kimbo for accepting the publicity Shaw is giving him? If I were an amateur fighting trying to make my way into the pro's I'd take all the publicity I could get.

[DarkKnight81]

Kimbo's current fame isn't his fault, but it will be his fault when a decent heavyweight exposes him and he comes crashing back down to earth. The problem is that won't happen until Gary Shaw or Kimbo lets it happen, which won't be any time soon.

[the saw is family]

Slightly off-topic...I'm planning on starting up some training within the next few months, I feel the discipline and focus learned through it will translate well to other aspects of my life, and I was wondering what I should start with? I have no previous experience. I'm 6'1" with a 73" reach so I was thinking kickboxing or muay thai boxing for starters. Eventually picking up BJJ or another ground type.

just from my experience i'd say skip the kickboxing and go for muay thai you learn more of an all around striking game and it will harden you. i've been doing muay thai for around 6 months now and at first it's tough you definitely take your lumps in sparring but what you learn from a striking stand point is great. mix that with some bjj and you've got an excellent base.

[Mopar Fanatic]

Kimbo's current fame isn't his fault, but it will be his fault when a decent heavyweight exposes him and he comes crashing back down to earth. The problem is that won't happen until Gary Shaw or Kimbo lets it happen, which won't be any time soon.

Ya, not any time soon if at all. He's 34 right now, How much time is really expendable in his case?

[DarkKnight81]

Well I'm guessing Kimbo is more concerned with making money than he is being the known as a great fighter. So he'll likely continue to beat up tomato cans for the next year or so, make his money for Gary Shaw, and then fade back into obscurity. I thought one day he might fight his way into the UFC, but at his age, fighting the people he's fighting, the UFC will likely never sign him.

[xseanymacx]

just from my experience i'd say skip the kickboxing and go for muay thai you learn more of an all around striking game and it will harden you. i've been doing muay thai for around 6 months now and at first it's tough you definitely take your lumps in sparring but what you learn from a striking stand point is great. mix that with some bjj and you've got an excellent base.

Thanks:)

[Salieri]

So I was reading this interview with JT at http://www.mmafighting.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26408, and this caught my eye:

"That raises another question. What did you think about judge Eric Colon… the second round was crazy. Judge Douglas Crosby scored it 10-8 in your favor yet Eric Colon scored it 10-9, Kimbo. What’s your reaction to that?"

I hadn't heard about this, and that just fucking blows my mind. How can anyone in the fucking world give that round to Kimbo? I'd really love to hear his explanation on the scoring there.

[unspoken]

My thoughts from the weekend:

-Elite XC blew as I knew it would (alhtough there were a few bright spots). I was pretty critical of the matchmaking long before the card aired... they weren't wanting to show MMA, they were wanting to show kickboxing with smaller gloves. And that's exactly what happened. The only time I saw any type of ground skill (sorry, what Thompson was doing doesn't qualify) was the last minute or so of the first round of the women's fight, when Gina was going for the gogoplata. The only fight I cared to see was Lawler vs. Smith and look how that turned out.

Pros and Cons to the production... a big pro to Gus Johnson, who went in like an unbiased sports broadcaster, and not a company shill (unlike his partners Mauro and Frank, neither of whom had the balls to admit that Kimbo was down two rounds).

A pro to the intro-to-MMA package they put together. I didn't need it, but I'm sure it was helpful for a lot of people. Also got a good laugh when Frank was explaining the fouls, then explains that knees to the head on the ground aren't legal...then cut straight to a clip of him doing it to Renzo.

But a big con to the timing of the show. Showing only 5 fights in almost 3 hours is utterly ridiculous, considering that none of them went the distance and two lasted less than 2 minutes. I know Pro-Elite wants to draw people to it's crappy website with the undercards being streamed live, but a few should be saved for possible inclusion to the show.

Also, how bad do you think Gary Shaw would have erupted if Kimbo lost? All that investment down the drain. But it's still there, so I'm sure they'll keep spoon-feeding him cans to make it worthy for them.


Now, the WEC on Sunday night, whole different story. Bit of a slow start with McCullough's fight, but then really picked up from there. And holy shit is the WEC on a tear...If I named the top 4 fights of the year so far, 3 of them would be from the WEC. Two amazing main events there. Just imagine if this had been the network TV debut for MMA. The sport would have gained millions of new fans just from the two main events.

[DarkKnight81]

Thiago Alves missed weight, he should have to fight with one hand tied behind his back.

[the saw is family]

Thiago Alves missed weight, he should have to fight with one hand tied behind his back.

lol. he just fucked himself with that. if he won this fight he was set up for a title shot but i bet the ufc would be hesitant about that now. especially with him testing positive for a diuretic to make weight before. looks like i will be watching the event live tomorrow as my friend is ordering it, hopefully it turns out to be good.

[DarkKnight81]

I'm not a Hughes fan but I'll be rooting for him now. Missing weight is disgraceful and inexcusable. Hughes by UD.

[Mopar Fanatic]

I bet Hughes still outweighs him come tomorrow. It would probably help Alves to be quicker rather than bigger, but maybe he just half-assed the weight cut figuring he'd come in less dehydrated and heavier.

A problem with giving up part of your purse when coming in heavy is that the purse sacrifice is usually not as great as the potential career earning boost for winning--or even the win bonus for that single fight in the case of the UFC. I think there is a real incentive for fighters to not kill themselves cutting weight when this is the case.

[unspoken]

lol. he just fucked himself with that. if he won this fight he was set up for a title shot but i bet the ufc would be hesitant about that now. especially with him testing positive for a diuretic to make weight before. looks like i will be watching the event live tomorrow as my friend is ordering it, hopefully it turns out to be good.

I agree that they would be hesitant to give him a title shot now with his past struggles with weight. I think the scenario anyways is to have the next WW title shot on the Superbowl Saturday show. Assuming that Koscheck beats Lytle and Diego beats Fioravanti, I see a rematch between those two in October with the winner getting GSP/Fitch in February.

[unspoken]

I bet Hughes still outweighs him come tomorrow. It would probably help Alves to be quicker rather than bigger, but maybe he just half-assed the weight cut figuring he'd come in less dehydrated and heavier.

A problem with giving up part of your purse when coming in heavy is that the purse sacrifice is usually not as great as the potential career earning boost for winning--or even the win bonus for that single fight in the case of the UFC. I think there is a real incentive for fighters to not kill themselves cutting weight when this is the case.

I don't know if this is quite the case, especially for a main event/title fight. Dana publicly bashed Travis Lutter on several occasions after he didn't make weight against Anderson Silva. Lutter was supposed to fight Ryan Jensen but got injured and couldn't, so they threw him to the wolves against Franklin, then cut him.

Alves may not lose any purse anyways... it's usually the commission that takes part of the purse as a penalty, with part going to them and part going to the opponent. However, the fight is in England which doesn't have a regulatory body for MMA. Though there are times where there are side deals made with the purse that doesn't involve the commission, but just the promoter and the two camps.

[Mopar Fanatic]

Actually this card went better than expected


High lights


Marquart's piledriver

http://i29.tinypic.com/8x3cia.jpg


The controversial stoppage.

http://i29.tinypic.com/33onzgo.jpg

Everyone including Joe Rogan argued that this was in fact an early stoppage. I argued with some friends As far as the Vera stoppage, the way I look at it is that it is not the ref's job to take into account how much time is left in the round. Which everybody thinks is the case. If Vera had been in that position, covering up like that, and doing shit else with 3:00 left in the round, nobody would have called it questionable. But it's the fighter's job to improve his position, not the ref's job to look at the clock and judge whether or not he can take the blows for the rest of the round.

[the saw is family]

yeah 85 turned out to be a pretty decent card. as for the vera/werdum stoppage i really wish they would have let brandon take more punishment just to really solidify the stoppage but with that said it was justified. it was definitely a positional stoppage rather than a damage stoppage though. nate and thales put in a good fight. man when thales dropped nate in the first i thought he was done, that right just stopped him dead in his tracks. nate shouldn't have had that second point taken away the elbow was to the side of the head, but even if he had kept that point the fight would have been a draw. swick/davis was really the only disappointing fight that was shown. i was hoping for a slugfest but it was more of a snoozer, with swick using his ground control to perfection.

bisping looked good again, but it's time for him to step up in the division. he has yet to beat a top fighter in the ufc or in his career he needs to be tested at 185. i don't like matt hughes at all never have and i never will, but with that said, it was almost sad watching him last night. he has gotten old overnight, and it looks as if the division has completely passed him by. his shots looked weak, and when he did get alves down he did nothing with top position. he should have his fight with serra then call it a career. i always wanted to see a 3rd fight between him and bj but thats unnecessary for matt at this point in his career. alves looked like a beast as he has been lately. fucking shame he didn't make weight, give him one more fight to prove he can make the cut then give him his title shot. also how about matt wiman with the ko over tavares, gutsy performance by him and a nice upset. solid return for martin kampmann, i though the would come in a little rusty but he looked like he hadn't missed a step. also can they ship jason lambert to the WEC or just cut him all together, i'm sicking of looking at him throwing ridiculous looping punches and then getting knocked out.

[Mopar Fanatic]

Marquat landed solidly behind the head the first time. In the second one, the point of impact was to the side of the head, but it was too close to being an illegal shit for Marquat to complain about, especially since he'd committed several fouls throughout the course of the fight.

Watching the Hughes fight, I just don't think Hughes hasn't got it in him anymore. He's been talking retirement for a long time now. Hughes has no heart anymore, he's not hungry and in this sport you've got to want it more than the next guy. He had a good run, but he needs to slide out the back door now before he Shamrocks himself.

[Donnie_Darko]

Huh.

My brother just got massively into this shit and bought 8 DVDs of UFC and the first 5 Pride DVDs. Enjoyable fighting most of the time. Mind you, I've only seen the first (and I mean the first, back to '93) tournies and it's fine.

I just really dislike Royce Gracie. Brazillian fighting styles bore the piss out of me in general, but I can't stand seeing this guy fight. Ken Shamrock makes far better shows.

Anyone else saw the first UFCs?

Hell yea. We ordered the first 10 PPVs, then they started sucking... hard. I've still got the tapes around somewhere.

When they changed the rules to have weight classes, gloves and certain rules, made the UFC much better.

Oh, and it's more a Ganso bomb, than a piledriver.
http://i29.tinypic.com/8x3cia.jpg

[DarkKnight81]

I'm fairly certain Hughes vs Serra will be Hughes last fight. Chuck's fighting at UFC 88 in September. I'm hoping against Shogun.

[the saw is family]

I'm fairly certain Hughes vs Serra will be Hughes last fight. Chuck's fighting at UFC 88 in September. I'm hoping against Shogun.

i read today that shogun won't be ready until december, but there was no solid source so that could be wrong. the ufc is supposed to have a huge announcement thursday. dana said he's kept it under wraps and he's renting out a place to tell the employees, he said it will change the face off mma and map out the direction of the sport over the next 5 years. there's been a ton of speculation so far such as, t.v. deal with fox, more global shows, there was one wild rumor that floyd mayweather signed with the ufc and was getting a stake in the company. there's also been rumor thats he's had the unified rules changed for more rounds per fights. there's also been a ton of speculation that along with the announcement he'll be announcing chuck vs. anderson silva for ufc 88. guess we'll wait to thursday and see.

[Salieri]

I'd hope for knees to the head on the ground over anything else, but I wont hold my breath.

[DarkKnight81]

i read today that shogun won't be ready until december, but there was no solid source so that could be wrong. the ufc is supposed to have a huge announcement thursday. dana said he's kept it under wraps and he's renting out a place to tell the employees, he said it will change the face off mma and map out the direction of the sport over the next 5 years. there's been a ton of speculation so far such as, t.v. deal with fox, more global shows, there was one wild rumor that floyd mayweather signed with the ufc and was getting a stake in the company. there's also been rumor thats he's had the unified rules changed for more rounds per fights. there's also been a ton of speculation that along with the announcement he'll be announcing chuck vs. anderson silva for ufc 88. guess we'll wait to thursday and see.

Yeah I have no reason to believe it would be Shogun, I was just hoping. I really don't want to see Anderson or GSP or BJ moving up and down in weigh classes. I hate that crap. I'd really like to see Anderson fight Okami or if he's still hurt, Bisping. I'm guessing Dana's announcement is a TV deal with Fox. Despite its supreme crapiness, EliteXC got great ratings and Fox is the type of company to copy every successful show other networks do. Luckily for them the best MMA org is available. I would like to see 5 round fights and 7 round title fights. Knees to the head on the ground??? Mmmm...considering that's a good way to kill somebody I seriously doubt that's going to happen. If anything, I'd rather see them take away elbows on the ground. When's the last time you saw somebody get KO'd by an elbow? It rarely if never happens, it only cuts people and fights end in controversy. As far as Chuck's 88 opponent goes, I see it being Rashad, Thiago Silva, or possibly Machida if they think he needs another good win before a title shot. There's rumor it could be Wand but it's just too soon for a rematch. I think if both win their next fight, then let them rematch for a title shot.

[the saw is family]

Yeah I have no reason to believe it would be Shogun, I was just hoping. I really don't want to see Anderson or GSP or BJ moving up and down in weigh classes. I hate that crap. I'd really like to see Anderson fight Okami or if he's still hurt, Bisping. I'm guessing Dana's announcement is a TV deal with Fox. Despite its supreme crapiness, EliteXC got great ratings and Fox is the type of company to copy every successful show other networks do. Luckily for them the best MMA org is available. I would like to see 5 round fights and 7 round title fights. Knees to the head on the ground??? Mmmm...considering that's a good way to kill somebody I seriously doubt that's going to happen. If anything, I'd rather see them take away elbows on the ground. When's the last time you saw somebody get KO'd by an elbow? It rarely if never happens, it only cuts people and fights end in controversy. As far as Chuck's 88 opponent goes, I see it being Rashad, Thiago Silva, or possibly Machida if they think he needs another good win before a title shot. There's rumor it could be Wand but it's just too soon for a rematch. I think if both win their next fight, then let them rematch for a title shot.

knees tot he head on the ground aren't that bad, that's one of the rules that made pride so good. it's really helps eliminate wrestlers from having such an advantage. i really think the anderson chuck fight will happen, okami isn't marketable and no one else really deserves a title shot at 185. i think anderson wrecks chuck though. i think chuck beats rashad and thiago but loses to machida. the last time i saw someone get ko'd by an elbow was i believe anderson vs. tony fryklund in cage rage anderson knocked him cold with a beautiful standing elbow, it was excellent.

[unspoken]

I can pretty much guarantee that the announcement isn't going to be an event, a fight, or changes to the unified rules. Dana said something along the lines of the announcement being "showing the direction this company will be headed in for the next 5 years." Those don't justify renting out a hall for all of your employees to hear, let alone the direction of the business.

I'd normally say the signing of a fighter wouldn't justify it either, but PBF would be a big deal. However, he's turning down a minimum of $25 million for a rematch with ODLH. Highly unlikely that he'd come to MMA to make less than one-tenth of that.

Your best two best are Network TV deal, or that the Fertittas have sold their stake in the UFC.

[the saw is family]

I can pretty much guarantee that the announcement isn't going to be an event, a fight, or changes to the unified rules. Dana said something along the lines of the announcement being "showing the direction this company will be headed in for the next 5 years." Those don't justify renting out a hall for all of your employees to hear, let alone the direction of the business.

I'd normally say the signing of a fighter wouldn't justify it either, but PBF would be a big deal. However, he's turning down a minimum of $25 million for a rematch with ODLH. Highly unlikely that he'd come to MMA to make less than one-tenth of that.

Your best two best are Network TV deal, or that the Fertittas have sold their stake in the UFC.

yeah the latest rumor that i've read is that the fertitta's have sold their stake in the ufc. and that a group of investors led by dana white have purchased the company. also part of that rumor is that one of the said investors who will hold a minority share in the company is none other than the wwe's vince mcmahon. said rumor states that he is a money man only and will have little to no input to the day to day operations of the company or the shows the ufc puts on. if the rumor turns out to be true and mcmahon is there just as a money person i don't have a problem, but if he's involved at all deeper than that i think it hurts the ufc's credibility and the sport as a whole.

[Mopar Fanatic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB_6OlK-LR8

Tito wasn't allowed to the press conference...typical

If anybody cares, I guess Tito did get access to the conference. Dana and him exchange a few words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn2Tzw72nFk

[DarkKnight81]

Tito isn't even top 10 at 205 in the UFC anymore but he wants top money. I wouldn't mind seeing him continue to fight in the UFC but I don't blame them for not wanting to pay him what he wants.

[unspoken]

The best thing for Tito to do would be to start fighting at heavyweight. He's no spring chicken anymore, and the numerous injuries throughout his career (especially knees) have caught up to him. He just doesn't have the speed it takes anymore to be competitive with the up-and-comers of the 205 division. Also, the shot knees affect his bread and butter style (wrestling) to the point where he can't shoot a good shot anymore.

Also, he should actually put his damn submission skills to work. He said something in the pre-fight interviews with Machida that he was going to go out and pound on him for 3 rounds, because the fans want to see as much of Tito Ortiz as possible. Even if that may be the case, it's a really stupid fighting strategy. See an opening to finish, take it. He damn near had that triangle, and likely would have gotten the tapout if that was the first or second round. The sweat is what allowed Machida to escape it.

[unspoken]

On an unrelated note, anyone else excited for DREAM 4 tomorrow night? I think the Mousasi-Yoon fight could be good as well as Mayhem-Jacare. It'll also be interesting to see who gets to inflict their will in Manhoef-Sakuraba.

It starts at I believe 4 AM Eastern on HDnet. You can also catch the Adrenaline card starting at 9:30, but I think I'm gonna PVR that and watch the Elite XC show with KJ Noons vs. Yves Edwards, and hope that Edwards mops the floor with Noons.

[the saw is family]

On an unrelated note, anyone else excited for DREAM 4 tomorrow night? I think the Mousasi-Yoon fight could be good as well as Mayhem-Jacare. It'll also be interesting to see who gets to inflict their will in Manhoef-Sakuraba.

It starts at I believe 4 AM Eastern on HDnet. You can also catch the Adrenaline card starting at 9:30, but I think I'm gonna PVR that and watch the Elite XC show with KJ Noons vs. Yves Edwards, and hope that Edwards mops the floor with Noons.

i can't wait for dream 4, i don't have hdnet so i'll have to catch the fights online. i can't wait for mayhem-jacare it's gonna be great, and i just hope poor sakuraba doesn't get killed. can't wait to watch nick diaz fight tonight as well.

[DarkKnight81]

Comcast needs to get HDNet ASAP...otherwise DREAM ceases to exist in my world.

[DunlopolnuD]

Anyone know what this WAMMA thing is all about?

[the saw is family]

Anyone know what this WAMMA thing is all about?

never heard of it. so tonight's exc event turned out to be alright, definitely an improvement from that fiasco on cbs. all the fights ended fairly quickly minus nick diaz's fight. it was nice seeing ninja pick up a win, he looked really dominant, great ground control and used his positions expertly. nick was great as usual but i'm bias as him and his brother are two of my favorites, he used his striking very well, ate some good shots without getting too banged up and displayed some of his jiu jitsu as well, thought it was a very solid performance from him, scoring his second tko win in a row. kj noons just blew the fuck up on yves, i thought yves was gonna have his hands full but damn kj just slaughtered him in 48 seconds was surprising as hell. so as for the post fight shenanigans that shit was staged. they brought nick out to the ring to stir up shit for the rematch with noons and it spiraled out of control with noons crew and his idiot father going after nate and nick. the shit was unnecessary and made exc look stupid again after they had done a decent job all night. as for a diaz/noons rematch i think nick has a hard time again. if it was up to me i would have the bulk of his training for that fight be on takedowns, double legs, singles, trips, judo throws anything to get noons down, where i think nick would work him. he'll have a hard time banging with kj again. win or lose though i'll still be a nick diaz fan.

[unspoken]

Comcast needs to get HDNet ASAP...otherwise DREAM ceases to exist in my world.

HDnet is not the only way...

[unspoken]

Anyone know what this WAMMA thing is all about?

http://www.gowamma.com

It's basically a bunch of writers, judges, and broadcasters trying to make themselves more important than they really are, making a "universal" title if you will. The true champion despite leagues in a weight class.

The problem with this is they have to actually fight the fights to know, and they know that the big dog in the fight (the UFC) isn't going to co-promote or bring in guys from another promotion.

Also, their rankings are a goddamn joke, especially if you look at the "also received votes" section of each weight class. It gets even worse when you read who's on the voting panel, with some of their past qualifications including high level jobs with certain promoters... yeah, no bias there at all.

[Mopar Fanatic]

Tito isn't even top 10 at 205 in the UFC anymore but he wants top money. I wouldn't mind seeing him continue to fight in the UFC but I don't blame them for not wanting to pay him what he wants.

True, but regardless not in this paticular video but another one he isn't just talking about himself he's speaking about fighters in general. When it comes down to it they are the ones busting there ass to entertain us. What they need is a fighters union.

[DunlopolnuD]

Thank you, Unspoken. Haha, Bill Goldberg is the Vice President... I think I now know all I need to know about it.

[Salieri]

I'm afraid for Saku's health tonight.

[unspoken]

I'm afraid for Saku's health tonight.

I know it's near blasphemy to say this as an MMA fan, but part of me kinda hopes he loses tonight (although not in a dangerous to his health fashion). That way he can start his 2-fight retirement tour, with the following:

1. Finish the trilogy with Royce. The 2nd fight was absolute garbage under the unified rules. Do it under the same rules they did their first fight.

2. Rickson. Same rules as Royce.

An MMA fan can dream...

[the saw is family]

wow just got done catching up on some of the fights from dream. mousasi/yoon was pretty damn good, mousasi was realy close to getting finished via "dongbar" but he did a nice job to survive and take the win. jacare/mayhem i was hoping would be a little better, mayhem had his moments but jacare was pretty dominant. manhoef/sakuraba was just brutal, it pains me to see sakuraba get beat like that, at least it was over quick and not drawn out. it's time for saku to hang them up though. how about aoki though, the guy is unreal on the ground. finishing the fight with a gogoplata from mount, from fucking mount!! one of the best submissions i've seen in awile.

[Mopar Fanatic]

Watching Saku get murdered, raped, and then murdered again was just sickening. It was kinda the same feeling as watching Arona rip him a new asshole expect much more sudden and violent. Why do the Japanese want to give their biggest MMA legend permanent brain damage? He's going to be doing interviews 10 years from now and sound completely retarded.

They let those hammerfists continue faaaaar too long. It's a shame, because he'll always be one of my favorite fighters. He single handedly destroyed the Gracie legend of invincibility, I thought it was awesome.

He's also really likable. I mean, he came into a fight as Mario, for fuck's sake. Every time he gets savagely mauled, I feel like I'm watching my kid brother get fucked up.

[Mopar Fanatic]

not to jump ship or anything....but here we go

UFC 88: Liddell vs Evans

http://mmamania.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ufc88tickets.jpg

Location: Atlanta
Date: September 6th, 2008

[bourahioro]

LOL...Normally by the second round Rashad is completely gasses and looking like a palm tree in the middle of a hurricane - he won't have long enough to worry about that this time around, Liddell is going to annihilate him.

[Criminal Rock]

Liddell by common sense, RD 1...

[unspoken]

Now they're also putting on a show on July 19th to be free on Spike to combat the Affliction show, and it's gonna be headlined by even more of a mismatch. At 205 pounds, Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin. But at least we'll get Franca vs. Edgar on that card.

[Mopar Fanatic]

I got that covered as well.

UFC Show on July 19th - Anderson at 205


MMAweekly

Quote:
While everyone else is headed down, Anderson Silva is on his way up.

Although the Ultimate Fighting Championship has yet to make its own official announcement, company president Dana White on Tuesday confirmed to Dave Meltzer of Yahoo Sports that there will indeed be a July 19 UFC event that will air on Spike TV.

According to Meltzer, UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva will headline the event, though there is an added twist. He will not be defending his belt.

While most fighters today are dropping down as many weight categories as they possibly can, the champ is headed up. Silva will make the move to light heavyweight, temporarily, without relinquishing his middleweight belt, to face James Irvin.

Contacted by MMAWeekly.com, Irvin on Tuesday confirmed the bout, saying that he had just received the contract and finalized the deal earlier in the day. Although other possible match-ups had been discussed, including one with Wanderlei Silva, Irvin was excited for the bout with Anderson Silva.

There had been much speculation in recent weeks that Silva would move to the 205-pound division, but no one really expected it to come at this juncture. Most speculation for a possible July 19 card centered on a main event with some combination of Brandon Vera, Wanderlei Silva, or Dan Henderson.

In his comments to Meltzer, White indicated that Silva would still defend his 185-pound divisional title later in the year, but indicated a future bout with former light heavyweight champion Chuck Liddell could be in the works if all goes well on July 19.

In addition to Silva vs. Irvin, a bout between Hermes Franca and Frankie Edgar, initially planned for Aug. 9 in Minneapolis, is being relocated to the July event at the Palms in Las Vegas.

The bout will be Franca’s first since returning from suspension for a positive test for steroids in California.

The UFC’s July 19 is a counter move to Affliction’s planned mixed martial arts promotional debut, also on July 19, at the Honda Center in Anaheim, Calif. Affliction “Banned” features a main event of Fedor Emelianenko vs. Tim Sylvia, carrying a suggested price tag of $39.95 on pay-per-view.

James Irvin will join MMAWeekly Radio Tuesday night to talk about the fight with Anderson Silva and accepting such a high profile bout on relatively short notice.

[the saw is family]

first off goddamn do they really have to go up against affliction. secondly good lord james irvin is going to get murdered.

[DarkKnight81]

I love the UFC but they can't top the Affliction card with just Anderson Silva. This will just give me something to watch on the 19th though since I wasn't going to get Affliction anyways.

[Criminal Rock]

Trailer up for the UFC game...

Click here (http://joblo.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2785382#post2785382)

[unspoken]

Hazelett vs. Burkman from last night's undercard is available for free on ufc.com right now. Watch it, great fight.

[DarkKnight81]

Happy for Amir, such a better fighter than CB. I was worried CB would just lay on him but he didn't get a chance to. Poor Evan Tanner, time to retire or move to a smaller show. Riddel vs Rivera was one of the worst fights I've ever seen, I really hope Riddel doesn't get a contract.

[DarkKnight81]

Hazelett vs. Burkman from last night's undercard is available for free on ufc.com right now. Watch it, great fight.

WTF? How was that fight of the night? Diego vs Luigi was ten times better, Hazlett and Burkman were both tired in the second round after a boring first. Diego and Luigi was three rounds of non stop action. Who makes these crappy decisions? Dana? Get yourself some glasses. That was a nice armbar and Hazlett deserved sub of the night but not even close for fight of the night.

[unspoken]

WTF? How was that fight of the night? Diego vs Luigi was ten times better, Hazlett and Burkman were both tired in the second round after a boring first. Diego and Luigi was three rounds of non stop action. Who makes these crappy decisions? Dana? Get yourself some glasses. That was a nice armbar and Hazlett deserved sub of the night but not even close for fight of the night.

Actually not a bad critique. I'm not saying I completely agree, but I can understand your point.

A few guys have said though that the Matt Brown vs. Matt Arroyo fight should have got it instead.

[the saw is family]

i just hope that josh burkman gets cut after this fight, i just really can't stand him. luigi/diego was a damn good fight. i thought diego would sub him in the second, but luigi fought hard. that was great to see amir armbar cb again, truly enjoyed that. poor evan tanner, his best days are definitely behind him. he's a tough bastard no doubt but he should probably hang 'em up at this point.

[DarkKnight81]

Yeah Burkman sucks.

[the saw is family]

alright i just gotta rage about this here. i'm a huge diaz brothers fan so i'll get that out of the way first. as i'm sure most of you know nick was supposed to fight mach sakurai for the first ever Dream welterweight title. nick won his previous fight in Dream which was a contenders elimination fight. so nick gets pulled out of the Dream fight by exc to fight on their next cbs card on july 26th. the upside to that though is that on that card he is supposed to rematch kj noons for the exc lightweight title. now we come to find out that that fight won't be happening and that nick will now be fighting journeyman thomas denny on the 26th. this is fucking ridiculous, they pull nick from a title fight with the promise of another title fight and now match him up with a journeyman fighter. exc is fucking around with this guys career and it fucking sucks. they better have a damn good explanation as to why the diaz/noons rematch was canceled. i already dislike kj and if he's the reason behind this being canceled he's my new number one hated fighter.

[DarkKnight81]

Nick should have just told EXC to fuck off and fight for DREAM.

[the saw is family]

Nick should have just told EXC to fuck off and fight for DREAM.

i wish he would too but he's a stand up guy and honors his contracts, which unfortunately in this case is hurting his career. if he somehow loses this fight it'll be such a setback for him. hate to see this happening to one of my favorite fighters.

[DarkKnight81]

A lot of fight rumors flying around today, here's a few....

Dan Henderson vs Rousimar Palhares UFC 88 September
Wanderlei Silva vs Thiago Silva UFC 89 October
Matt Hughes vs Matt Serra UFC 90 November

Also Shogun and Bonnar both supposed to be returning in December, so why not put them together? If Shogun is healthy that would be an awesome fight.

[DarkKnight81]

Scratch Hughes. Apparently he completely blew his knee out against Alves and will be on the shelf awhile. Hopefully Serra can get a fight in the next few months.

[unspoken]

Any of you watch Strikeforce on HDnet tonight? Gilbert Melendez vs. Josh Thomson was a hell of a fight, and Billy Evangelista vs. Nam Phan was pretty good too. Rest of the card kinda sucked, especially Ruiz vs. Southworth. But worth a watch for the last 2 fights.

[the saw is family]

Any of you watch Strikeforce on HDnet tonight? Gilbert Melendez vs. Josh Thomson was a hell of a fight, and Billy Evangelista vs. Nam Phan was pretty good too. Rest of the card kinda sucked, especially Ruiz vs. Southworth. But worth a watch for the last 2 fights.

saw the melendez/thomson fight. was really dissapointed to see gil lose, was pretty surprised to see him get dominated for the most part. thomson is good but he was coming off a huge layoff and i thought it would be a tough fight for him. i'm a big fan of those ceasar gracie guys and it sucks when they lose. gil should bounce back though.

[Mopar Fanatic]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/33/UFC_86.jpg

http://86.ufc.com/


Main Card


Light Heavyweight Championship bout:
Quinton Jackson (27-6-0) -260 vs. Forrest Griffin (15-4-0) 200

Middleweight bout:
Patrick Côté (13-4-0) -120 vs. Ricardo Almeida (9-2-0) -110

Lightweight bout:
Joe Stevenson (33-8-0) -220 vs. Gleison Tibau (27-4-0) 175

Welterweight bout:
Josh Koscheck (13-2-0) -350 vs. Chris Lytle (35-15-4) 250

Lightweight bout:
Tyson Griffin (11-1-0) -350 vs. Marcus Aurelio (14-5-0) 250

Preliminary Card

Heavyweight Bout:
Gabriel Gonzaga vs. Justin McCully

Lightweight Bout:
Jorge Gurgel vs. Cole Miller

Lightweight Bout:
Melvin Guillard vs. Dennis Siver

Lightweight Bout:
Corey Hill vs. Justin Buchholz


Odds from:
http://www.betus.com/ufc-betting/odds-lines

[Mopar Fanatic]

My picks

Jackson, TKO R3
Almeida, submission
Stevenson, decision
Koscheck, decision (Lytle, please prove me wrong)
Griffin, decision
Gonzaga, submission
Miller, TKO
Guillard, KO
Hill, TKO

[DarkKnight81]

Rich Franklin's moving back to the 205lb division. His next fight is against Matt Hammil at UFC88. I know the guy wants to avoid Anderson but if Ace wants to rise to the top of 205, Anderson may be waiting there for him.

[the saw is family]

my ufc 86 picks

jackson over griffin via tko rd 3
almeida over cote via rnc late 1st early 2nd rd.
stevenson over tibau via ud
koscheck over lytle via ud
griffin over aurelio via split decision
gonzaga over mcully via armbar rd 2
miller over gurgel via ud
guillard over siver viz tko rd 2
buchholz over hill via rnc rd 1

[bourahioro]

Jackson > Griffin (T)KO Rd 2
Cote > Almeida (T)ko GnP Rd 3
Stevenson > Tibeau Decision
Koscheck > Lytle (T)KO rd 1
Griffin > Aurelio Decision
Gonzaga > McCully (T)KO rd 2
Miller > Gurgel (Sub) rd 3
Siver > Guillard Decision
Hill > Buchholz (T)KO rd 3

[X-Nightcrawler]

That was all right. I enjoyed the Griffin/Jackson fight, and was rooting for Griffin. But the highlight was the fucking bloodbath that was the second (I think) fight. Did someone get shot there? wtf

[unspoken]

Almeida and Rampage both got robbed. Never would I have thought I'd see the day where I'd be arguing FOR Cecil Peoples to judge more fights, but he's been very good lately. Bring back Cecil!!

[DarkKnight81]

Rampage is one of my favorite fighters but in no way did he get robbed. It was the classic underestimation fight, I don't understand how that shit still happens. Rampage and Juanito were both talking shit like Forrest didn't stand a chance. Rampage looked flat and flabby at the weigh ins and we all know how Forrest trains. Rampage looked like he had no game plan, just going to whoop Forrest's ass. But Forrest won the fight with those leg kicks, fair and square. Forrest won round 2 and 5, Rampage 3 and 4. Round 1 was a toss up and the judges saw it Forrest's way. Of course I was still hoping Rampage would get the decision but in my heart I knew he lost. And then after the fight he was classy but acted like he didn't care. Reportedly neither man is hurt and there could be a quick rematch in October so we can get a clear winner. Aside from this....
...Had to have been one of the worst PPVs in a while. Didn't look very good on paper and that's how it turned out. Cote, Stevenson, Tyson Griffin and Koscheck all bore the shit out of me. The more exciting fighters were on the undercard. The next few PPVs look fantastic though.

[unspoken]

http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Griffin-Rampage.html

Good breakdown of the round-by-round stats.

I have to disagree though, round 1 is not the round in question. I would say round 3 is.

Round 1 was clearly Rampage, he had Forrest somewhat rocked twice and later dropped him.

Round 2 was clearly Forrest, but 10-9 only. Rampage was never in danger of being stopped.

Round 3 was Rampage IMO. He landed his shots more cleanly and landed more high-percentage shots.

Round 4 was Rampage. Same thing as round 3.

Round 5 was Forrest, same explanation as round 3 and 4.

That works out to 48-47 in favor of Rampage. I could have understood a draw, but the scores (especially after seeing the breakdown of each judge's individual card) were ridiculous.


Don't even get me started on round 3 of Almeida vs. Cote.

[Mopar Fanatic]

Wouldn't mind it if the judges actually looked at who won the fight instead of filling out some shitty score card and half assing it. Even then, they were wrong in picking Griffin.

[unspoken]

Wouldn't mind it if the judges actually looked at who won the fight instead of filling out some shitty score card and half assing it. Even then, they were wrong in picking Griffin.

You're not kidding. Here's the breakdowns of each judge's card:

Adalaide Bird - 48-46. Gave 1, 2, and 3 to Forrest with 2 being 10-8. Gave 4 and 5 to Rampage.

Nelson Hamiltion - 48-46. Gave 2, 3, and 5 to Forrest with 2 being 10-8. Gave 1 and 4 to Rampage.

Roy Silbert - 49-46. Gave 1, 2, 3 and 5 to Forrest, no 10-8. Gave 4 to Rampage.


MMA seriously needs to work with the commissions to get actual MMA judges and not boxing judges to work the fights. It also doesn't help that the judges are appointed by their high-ranking friends at the commissions, and see no scrutiny or performance reviews at all (unlike other sports where officials are being reviewed constantly. The only guy getting it right lately is Cecil Peoples... and because I am now saying that, I think Satan is selling parkas.

[DarkKnight81]

http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Griffin-Rampage.html

Good breakdown of the round-by-round stats.

I have to disagree though, round 1 is not the round in question. I would say round 3 is.

Round 1 was clearly Rampage, he had Forrest somewhat rocked twice and later dropped him.

Round 2 was clearly Forrest, but 10-9 only. Rampage was never in danger of being stopped.

Round 3 was Rampage IMO. He landed his shots more cleanly and landed more high-percentage shots.

Round 4 was Rampage. Same thing as round 3.

Round 5 was Forrest, same explanation as round 3 and 4.

That works out to 48-47 in favor of Rampage. I could have understood a draw, but the scores (especially after seeing the breakdown of each judge's individual card) were ridiculous.


Don't even get me started on round 3 of Almeida vs. Cote.

You bring up the fight metric and then say round 2 wasn't 10-8 Forrest? Look man, I was rooting for Rampage too but you bring facts to the table and then ignore them. Rampage didn't throw a single strike in round 2 and looked lost on his back for 4 minutes. Forrest was in charge most of round 1 until Rampage rocked him towards the end, that's why I said it was a toss up. Rampage clearly won 3 and 4. 5 was close but Forrest landed more clearly. So even amongst fans, Round 1 is the question mark. Do you give it to the guy that threw and landed more, or the guy who was closer to KO'ing the other guy? Rampage was my pick but it was a damn close fight. If judges go by who has the most cuts and bruises, then Forrest loses but that's not how it's judged. Sorry, get over it. Rampage underestimated Forrest, promised he'd KO him, and didn't deliver. He left it in the judges hands and let's face it, there have been MUCH more controversial decisions than this.

[DarkKnight81]

A couple ways this could have been scored:

How most people saw it
Round 1: 10-9 Rampage
Round 2: 10-8 Forrest
Round 3: 10-9 Rampage
Round 4: 10-9 Rampage
Round 5: 10-9 Forrest
47-47 Draw

How I saw it
Round 1: 10-9 Forrest
Round 2: 10-8 Forrest
Round 3: 10-9 Rampage
Round 4: 10-9 Rampage
Round 5: 10-9 Forrest
48-46 Forrest

How Forrest fanboys saw it
Round 1: 10-9 Forrest
Round 2: 10-8 Forrest
Round 3: 10-9 Forrest
Round 4: 10-9 Rampage
Round 5: 10-9 Forrest
49-45 Forrest

How Rampage soldier boys saw it
Round 1: 10-9 Rampage
Round 2: 10-9 Forrest
Round 3: 10-9 Rampage
Round 4: 10-9 Rampage
Round 5: 10-9 Rampage
49-46 Rampage

Any which way you cut it, it's close. I just hope we get a rematch in September and Rampage gets his shit straight.

[the saw is family]

10-9 jackson
10-8 forrest
10-9 griffin
10-9 jackson
10-9 griffin

forrest wins 48-46.

round 2 was a 10-8 round. forrest came damn close to dropping rampage with those legs kicks. he had a guillotine attempt, a key lock attempt, the mount and total top control rampage had literally zero offense. if rampage had attempted a couple of sweeps or even tried to buck forrest off a few times there might be a case for 10-9. also just becuase rampage wasn't in danger of being finished doesn't mean the round wasn't 10-8, you don't get the courtesy 9 by doing absolutely nothing for a round while the other fighter does everything. there could be a case made for a draw as rounds 3 and 4 were really close, but round 5 was clearly forrest. i don't think rampage overlooked forrest necessarily, i just think he thought for sure he would get a ko eventually, and the forrest's leg kicks completely took the life out of him and took the pop out of his punches late in the fight. forrest won the fight and he deserves it. also people are giving rampage way too much credit for the combo he threw most of those combos were ineffective as forrest ate most of them on his arms. rampage had no beef with the decision after the fight because he knew he lost. i knew if this fight went the distance people would bitch no matter what happened. forrest gets zero credit what so ever because he came from tuf. this same shit would have happened to him against shogun too if he hadn't gotten the tap. i'm sick of people not giving fighters credit where it's due, it's bullshit. also if you really think rampage won the fight then consider this one a little piece of karma for that gift he received over ninja at pride 29.

[unspoken]

Let me ask you guys a question then... how would you score round 1 of Randy Couture vs. Tim Sylvia?

[unspoken]

sorry, double post

[unspoken]

10-9 jackson
10-8 forrest
10-9 griffin
10-9 jackson
10-9 griffin

forrest wins 48-46.

round 2 was a 10-8 round. forrest came damn close to dropping rampage with those legs kicks. he had a guillotine attempt, a key lock attempt, the mount and total top control rampage had literally zero offense. if rampage had attempted a couple of sweeps or even tried to buck forrest off a few times there might be a case for 10-9.

First, those submission attempts were about as dangerous as Gleison Tibau's omaplata on Joe Stevenson. He didn't even attempt to crank the Americana, he just had his hands positioned correctly to do so, but then gave it up.

Second, by your reasoning of there 10-8 vs. 10-9, guys like Hughes and Koscheck (in his earlier fights) should have been winning fights 30-24. They'd take dominant position early in the round and keep it there, and do little to no damage with their opponent attempting no sweeps or bucks because they couldn't.


also just becuase rampage wasn't in danger of being finished doesn't mean the round wasn't 10-8, you don't get the courtesy 9 by doing absolutely nothing for a round while the other fighter does everything.


If that's the case, then round 1 of Cote/Almeida should have been 10-8 Almeida, and Tyson Griffin should have won 30-24. The deduction is earned by the opposing fighter for causing significant damage and being on the brink of finishing, and dominating the round. Forrest did the latter but not the former. No 10-8.


there could be a case made for a draw as rounds 3 and 4 were really close, but round 5 was clearly forrest. i don't think rampage overlooked forrest necessarily, i just think he thought for sure he would get a ko eventually, and the forrest's leg kicks completely took the life out of him and took the pop out of his punches late in the fight. forrest won the fight and he deserves it. also people are giving rampage way too much credit for the combo he threw most of those combos were ineffective as forrest ate most of them on his arms. rampage had no beef with the decision after the fight because he knew he lost. i knew if this fight went the distance people would bitch no matter what happened. forrest gets zero credit what so ever because he came from tuf. this same shit would have happened to him against shogun too if he hadn't gotten the tap. i'm sick of people not giving fighters credit where it's due, it's bullshit.

I don't think 4 was close, but 3 was. Forrest may have threw more shots, but Rampage landed the better ones in that round. I personally think it's a case of the judges seeing style over substance.


also if you really think rampage won the fight then consider this one a little piece of karma for that gift he received over ninja at pride 29.

Here's something in this post we can agree on. Ninja beat his ass from start to finish. If I had to make a list of top 5 worst decisions in MMA history, this would definitely be on it.

[unspoken]

How I saw it
Round 1: 10-9 Forrest
Round 2: 10-8 Forrest
Round 3: 10-9 Rampage
Round 4: 10-9 Rampage
Round 5: 10-9 Forrest
48-46 Forrest

Any which way you cut it, it's close. I just hope we get a rematch in September and Rampage gets his shit straight.

We agree on the last 3. I've already stated why I don't think the 10-8 is warranted. But the 10-9 Forrest first round really baffles me.

Here's the thing, the judging criteria is effective striking. Forrest threw and landed a few more shots. However, Forrest only rocked Rampage once. Rampage had Forrest rocked twice, then dropped him on the 3rd time, and had dominant position on the ground after that. How does that equal a winning round for Forrest?

I'm not hoping for an immediate rematch though. I want to see Forrest fight Machida and Rampage fight Wand.

[the saw is family]

First, those submission attempts were about as dangerous as Gleison Tibau's omaplata on Joe Stevenson. He didn't even attempt to crank the Americana, he just had his hands positioned correctly to do so, but then gave it up.

Second, by your reasoning of there 10-8 vs. 10-9, guys like Hughes and Koscheck (in his earlier fights) should have been winning fights 30-24. They'd take dominant position early in the round and keep it there, and do little to no damage with their opponent attempting no sweeps or bucks because they couldn't.



If that's the case, then round 1 of Cote/Almeida should have been 10-8 Almeida, and Tyson Griffin should have won 30-24. The deduction is earned by the opposing fighter for causing significant damage and being on the brink of finishing, and dominating the round. Forrest did the latter but not the former. No 10-8.



I don't think 4 was close, but 3 was. Forrest may have threw more shots, but Rampage landed the better ones in that round. I personally think it's a case of the judges seeing style over substance.



Here's something in this post we can agree on. Ninja beat his ass from start to finish. If I had to make a list of top 5 worst decisions in MMA history, this would definitely be on it.

the attempts might not have been completely dangerous, but they are offense. and i weigh the guillotine much heavier than the americana. i just cant justify rampage getting nine points for the round, when literally all he did was get staggered by leg kicks and get dominated on the ground. he did not have one offensive burst in the entire round. i do think there should be more 10-8 rounds in the sport, if you're on the bottom laying there like a puching bag during ground and pound practice you should not get the courtesy nine points no matter if you're getting your face busted or not. like i said i would have called it 10-9 had rampage made any attempt to escape but he layed there like it was his first time being on his back in a fight. i also don't buy the arguement that koscheck and hughes should have won fights 30-24 because of dominant position and that thier opponents COULDN'T sweep or buck. you can always attempt to sweep or buck, you may not be successful but you can make the attempt. i've been training bjj for 4 years now and thats beginner stuff. and if you don't at least attempt it it should result in a 10-8 round.

also there's no way in hell tyson griffin should have won 30-24, he dominated the fight but aurelio was going for subs from his back. yes they weren't successful but he was attempting offense something that rampage never did in the 2nd round. like i said before rounds 3 and 4 were damn close and i wouldn't have had a huge problem with the fight being called a draw. i also wouldn't have a problem with an instand rematch, i think forrest would defeat him again though. i also agree that lyoto should get the next title shot but i don't think it will happen. i think lyoto would beat forrest and i don't think the ufc would want forrest to lose the title to someone who's not quite a premier fighter name wise. i think wanderlei/rampage 3 ends the same as the first two with rampage being brutally victimized once again. either way some good debate on an interesting fight.

[unspoken]

i also agree that lyoto should get the next title shot but i don't think it will happen. i think lyoto would beat forrest and i don't think the ufc would want forrest to lose the title to someone who's not quite a premier fighter name wise. i think wanderlei/rampage 3 ends the same as the first two with rampage being brutally victimized once again. either way some good debate on an interesting fight.

-Agreed on the Machida comments, plus it's rumoured (I stress that)that Forrest was supposed to fight Machida at UFC 72 when he fought Ramirez, but he didn't want to fight him. But listing the guys who are in line for a shot, I don't see Forrest beating many of them either.

Rampage - 50/50 shot
Machida - I don't see it
Chuck - probably not
Wand - maybe, if he uses his size advantage to it's fullest potential
Rashad (if he beats Chuck) - I could see Forrest winning this fight quite easily as long as he stays off his back or can last, usually Rashad is pretty tired after about 2 and a half rounds.

Thiago, Sokoudjou, and Shogun I wouldn't consider in line for a title shot yet.

But thank god it's at least a competitive division at the top. Because as of right now, I don't see anyone beating GSP, BJ, or Silva in their respective weight classes (and add Torres and Faber to that for the WEC). And the UFC HW division is very slim pickings right now, It's hard to imagine any of the guys in it beating Nog.


-Good on you for the part about good debate. I reread some of my earlier posts and realize I may have come off as somewhat of an asshole, and if so, I apologize. It's just the way I saw it. I really don't care about the outcome, if I made a top 10 favorite fighters list, neither of these guys would be on it - although some may accuse me of being semi-biased since my #1 is still Shogun.

But at least you guys can reasonably back your opinion up, despite my disagreement with what you might say... I ventured onto a few different MMA forums this morning and all the "I told you so" sunday morning quarterbacks were out in full force. And many of them saying "I told you so" just signed up for it today. It got truly annoying.

[DarkKnight81]

Forrest has one thing right, he is the least imposing champion right now. He won the fight last night but I still think he'd lose to Machida, Chuck, Wand, Jardine, Shogun(when healthy), Hendo, and Rampage in a rematch. If he keeps the belt it will be the way he won it, outpointing and avoiding trying to finish or be finished.

Secondly, we obviously don't agree on round 1, but like I said that's the toss up round for me. As far as round 2 goes, Rampage through ZERO(0) strikes, almost looked like the he was going to be TKO'd by leg strikes, was almost caught in several submissions and did absolutely nothing. I don't know what else a 10-8 round is but I didn't see another one all night. Lytle fought tough all three rounds despite his cuts and the other fights were all well contested. Stevenson was losing until he caught Aurellio in the guillotine.

Wand is rumored to be fighting Thiago Silva next, but if it's not signed the UFC might pull the plug on that to get Wand/Page III. Otherwise I see Rampage fighting either Sokdejou or Jardine next. I'd give Machida his shot or else Dana will never hear the end of it. So what if he's not popular, he's probably the best at 205 right now if they'd let him prove it.

And as far as the judging goes, I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying its the way it is. There is no damage score, judges score on effective striking, grappling, aggression and octagon control. All of which I'd say Forrest narrowly edged Rampage in. Effective striking maybe in question but the other three Forrest won. If they were MMA judges or former fighters, I think the fight is ruled a draw and there is even more outrage from the fans. So at least we got a winner, even if it's not clear.

[the saw is family]

-Agreed on the Machida comments, plus it's rumoured (I stress that)that Forrest was supposed to fight Machida at UFC 72 when he fought Ramirez, but he didn't want to fight him. But listing the guys who are in line for a shot, I don't see Forrest beating many of them either.

Rampage - 50/50 shot
Machida - I don't see it
Chuck - probably not
Wand - maybe, if he uses his size advantage to it's fullest potential
Rashad (if he beats Chuck) - I could see Forrest winning this fight quite easily as long as he stays off his back or can last, usually Rashad is pretty tired after about 2 and a half rounds.

Thiago, Sokoudjou, and Shogun I wouldn't consider in line for a title shot yet.

But thank god it's at least a competitive division at the top. Because as of right now, I don't see anyone beating GSP, BJ, or Silva in their respective weight classes (and add Torres and Faber to that for the WEC). And the UFC HW division is very slim pickings right now, It's hard to imagine any of the guys in it beating Nog.


-Good on you for the part about good debate. I reread some of my earlier posts and realize I may have come off as somewhat of an asshole, and if so, I apologize. It's just the way I saw it. I really don't care about the outcome, if I made a top 10 favorite fighters list, neither of these guys would be on it - although some may accuse me of being semi-biased since my #1 is still Shogun.

But at least you guys can reasonably back your opinion up, despite my disagreement with what you might say... I ventured onto a few different MMA forums this morning and all the "I told you so" sunday morning quarterbacks were out in full force. And many of them saying "I told you so" just signed up for it today. It got truly annoying.


i agree with pretty much all of your assessments for 205. i do think forrest would beat chuck though and chucks my favorite fighter. i think forrest would use his range, and leg kicks much like jardine did to defeat chuck. chuck could definitely knock forrest out if he could lure him into a brawl but i think forrest would stay away from that. i think forrest would beat rampage again. as for wanderlei thats 50-50 to me. forrest is definitely much bigger and that would lend to a huge advantage, but wanderlei just has those moments where he explodes and i could see him hurting forrest and finishing him. forrest imo has always been underrated since his time on tuf, and it really pisses me off to see people saying so and so fighter is going to walk through him (not referencing you at all) i mean yeah there's guys that are better than him, and there's guys that will beat him in the future but he will not be walked over by anyone, he will be a tough fight for any fighter at 205 and getting a win over him will be something that will be earned.

[bourahioro]

I really thought Rampage would destroy Forrest, Not saying of course that Forrest destroyed Rampage (he was rather impressive), and admittedly I'm disappointed that Forrest won, but he won fair and square...the booing at the results of that fight were bullshit, and uncalled for. Rampage was a class act about the whole affair, and I was shocked to see him humbled.

[unspoken]

http://www.compustrike.com/stats.php?news_id=31&start=0&category_id=5&parent_id=5&arcyear=&arcmonth

Compustrike stats from Forrest vs. Rampage.

Juanito Ibarra is also filing a complaint with the NSAC over the ruling. Not likely he'll get it overturned, but it's leverage for an immediate rematch.

[DarkKnight81]

Looks like Anderson Silva will only be making one 205 appearance according to him as "a personal favor to Dana White." He also says the 205 belt, "belongs to Lyoto."

[the saw is family]

i think if anderson keeps clearing out 185 he'll continue to make guest appearances at 205 for some marquee but non-title fights. the guy loves to fight so much i hope he takes as many fights as he can.

[Mopar Fanatic]

You're not kidding. Here's the breakdowns of each judge's card:

Adalaide Bird - 48-46. Gave 1, 2, and 3 to Forrest with 2 being 10-8. Gave 4 and 5 to Rampage.

Nelson Hamiltion - 48-46. Gave 2, 3, and 5 to Forrest with 2 being 10-8. Gave 1 and 4 to Rampage.

Roy Silbert - 49-46. Gave 1, 2, 3 and 5 to Forrest, no 10-8. Gave 4 to Rampage.


MMA seriously needs to work with the commissions to get actual MMA judges and not boxing judges to work the fights. It also doesn't help that the judges are appointed by their high-ranking friends at the commissions, and see no scrutiny or performance reviews at all (unlike other sports where officials are being reviewed constantly. The only guy getting it right lately is Cecil Peoples... and because I am now saying that, I think Satan is selling parkas.

I've always wondered what the requirements are to become a judge for a fight, MMA or boxing. MMA being such a young sport, it might be hard to find guys who know or care enough to be judges. Would trainers or retired fighters make good judges? What makes a good, impartial judge? I guess Cecil Peoples is still working, and I'm convinced he spends most of the fight trying to figure out why the two guys in shorts are so mad at each other, then panics about to shit his pants and fills out his scorecard real quick right before he hands it to the official scorecard guy.

Anyways, here's my outlook for the future of the weight division.

Shouldn't give Wanderlei a chance to lose another fight. What they might do is set up the fight that has to happen, wandy/rampage III. And soon, considering neither really suffered much damage in their last fight. rampage will be limping for a few days, but he'll be back training in a month. This is a #1 contender match.

Probably won't give Machida a shot because he might very well beat Forrest. And Machida isn't known and certainly isn't loved by the average fan. He tends to put on what many consider boring fights. You don't let him get anywhere near the belt until you have no other choice. I say let's see him and Thiago Silva next.

Rashad wins and you've got the TUF winner vs. TUF for the title angle.

Chuck wins and you've got the winner of season 1 fighting against his coach.

Shogun Rua is also in the mix, but you wouldn't throw him in with any of these guys first fight back.

[DarkKnight81]

I'll believe Shogun's back when I see him back. Not many athletes come back 100% after multiple knee injuries. In the case of Machida, I'm usually an advocate for the guy but after his "elusive" performance against Tito, I'm not sold on him getting a title shot. He needs a convincing win over a top 5 LHW, not to play it safe and get a decision against a guy like Tito. I figure the winner or Chuck/Rashad gets the next shot, but that fight's not until September which means the title fight won't be until early 09.

[the saw is family]

I'll believe Shogun's back when I see him back. Not many athletes come back 100% after multiple knee injuries. In the case of Machida, I'm usually an advocate for the guy but after his "elusive" performance against Tito, I'm not sold on him getting a title shot. He needs a convincing win over a top 5 LHW, not to play it safe and get a decision against a guy like Tito. I figure the winner or Chuck/Rashad gets the next shot, but that fight's not until September which means the title fight won't be until early 09.

i think if the winner of rashad/chuck makes it out of the fight injury free, they will put the winner against forrest on the late december/new years card. also when it comes to machida i'm not making excuses but in an interview with tatame he said that he was extremely ill going into the tito fight and apologized for his lack of finishing prowess in the fight. i think machida deserves the shot but understand why the ufc isn't doing it right now. imo when machida gets his shot he will become the new lhw champ.

[DarkKnight81]

I'm a Machida fan, but that last fight pissed me off. If the plan is to give the winner of Liddell-Evans the title shot, than I'll be rooting even harder for Liddell. Fuck Rashad Evans, fuck him up his stupid ass.

[the saw is family]

I'm a Machida fan, but that last fight pissed me off. If the plan is to give the winner of Liddell-Evans the title shot, than I'll be rooting even harder for Liddell. Fuck Rashad Evans, fuck him up his stupid ass.

you can never say for sure what will happen, but history says that chuck pretty much always dominates wrestlers (chuck/randy 1 being the exception) and rashad isn't very well rounded yet so imo the chances of chuck winning and winning by ko/tko are pretty damn good.

[Mopar Fanatic]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/85/Afflicition.jpg/472px-Afflicition.jpg

http://www.afflictionclothing.com/banned_july19/


PAY PER VIEW

WAMMA Heavyweight Championship bout:
Fedor Emelianenko (27-1-0) -450 vs Tim Sylvia (24-4-0) +300

Heavyweight bout:
Andrei Arlovski (12-5-0) vs Ben Rothwell (29-5-0)

Heavyweight bout:
Josh Barnett (21-5-0) -450 vs Pedro Rizzo (16-7-0) +300

Middleweight bout:
Matt Lindland (20-5-0) vs Fabio Negao (8-3-0)

Light heavyweight bout:
Renato Sobral (29-7-0) -240 vs Mike Whitehead (20-5-0) +190


FSN (FOX SPORTS NET)

Heavyweight bout:
Aleksander Emelianenko (13-3-0) -350 vs Paul Buentello (25-10-0) +275

Middleweight bout:
Vitor Belfort (16-8-0) vs Terry Martin (16-4-0)

MAY NOT BE BROADCAST

Light heavyweight bout:
Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs Edwin Dewees

Featherweight bout:
Savant Young vs Mark Hominick

Middleweight bout:
Justin Levens vs Ray Lazama

Welterweight bout:
Mike Pyle vs JJ Ambrose



Odds from:
http://www.mmabettingblog.com/2008/0...ffliction-mma/

[Mopar Fanatic]

And it's actually a great card, but mostly very one-sided matchups.

Fedor, submission. I wouldn't be entirely shocked if Tim was able to jab and fence-lean his way to a decision, but as soon as Fedor gets him down, he's done.

Arlovski, TKO. Rothwell's probably the 'dog on this card most likely to score the upset, but if Andrei's got his head together, he should be able to pick Ben apart. But these days, that's a pretty big 'if'.

Barnett, submission. Say what you want about Barnett, but he's a consistenty dangerous, well-rounded HW. Rizzo has gone way the hell downhill, and Josh finally avenges that highlight-reel KO.

Lindland, TKO. Lindland will be more than happy to let Negao pull guard, and pound out a methodical win.

Babalu, decision. This could actually be very competitive if Whitehead can keep it standing, but Sobral will probably not let that happen.

Aleks, KO. Should be a fast, entertaining slugfest. Buentello is durable but just not on the same level.

Martin, decision. I wouldn't put it past Belfort to pull out a decent victory against a B-lister, but I'll err on the side of him sucking.

Little Nog, by not being Edwin Dewees.

Young, decision. Should be some very entertaining standup.

Levens

Pyle

[the saw is family]

And it's actually a great card, but mostly very one-sided matchups.

Fedor, submission. I wouldn't be entirely shocked if Tim was able to jab and fence-lean his way to a decision, but as soon as Fedor gets him down, he's done.

Arlovski, TKO. Rothwell's probably the 'dog on this card most likely to score the upset, but if Andrei's got his head together, he should be able to pick Ben apart. But these days, that's a pretty big 'if'.

Barnett, submission. Say what you want about Barnett, but he's a consistenty dangerous, well-rounded HW. Rizzo has gone way the hell downhill, and Josh finally avenges that highlight-reel KO.

Lindland, TKO. Lindland will be more than happy to let Negao pull guard, and pound out a methodical win.

Babalu, decision. This could actually be very competitive if Whitehead can keep it standing, but Sobral will probably not let that happen.

Aleks, KO. Should be a fast, entertaining slugfest. Buentello is durable but just not on the same level.

Martin, decision. I wouldn't put it past Belfort to pull out a decent victory against a B-lister, but I'll err on the side of him sucking.

Little Nog, by not being Edwin Dewees.

Young, decision. Should be some very entertaining standup.

Levens

Pyle

pretty much agree with all of that, there will be no fence leaning though as affliction will be using a ring which favors fedor even more. also i think aleks is gonna put a highlight reel ko on buentello. sucks rogerio's fight might not be shown.

[unspoken]

Given his reach advantage and Fedor's history, Tim has a realistic shot at winning by cut.

[DarkKnight81]

I wish I had some friends that were into MMA to go in with me on this. I'm not paying for it by myself.

[bourahioro]

Fedor BARELY took out Lindland IMO, I think Tim actually has a chance if he fights intelligently - and by fight intelligently, I mean fight to win, not fight not to lose.

[DarkKnight81]

I don't see how Tim can keep the fight on the feet, which will lead to his demise via armbar.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the light heavyweight elite will shape up like this:

Evans-Liddell: Winner gets Forrest in December
Rampage-Wand Silva
Machida-Thiago Silva
Jardine-Sokdejou

The X factor is Shogun. Will he be ready to fight this year? Will the UFC give him a stiff challenge? I think if Forrest is still champ and Shogun comes back convincingly, he could get his rematch.

[DarkKnight81]

In a new interview with Machida's trainer, he say's they've been contacted about a possible fight in November against one "Rampage" Jackson. So it looks like Wand will be fighting Thiago and Forrest will be fighting the winner of Liddell-Evans. If Wand and Page win I would expect a fight between them for a shot at the title. If Machida wins, I don't know how they could avoid giving him a title shot.

[scottmushroom]

Sounds to me like Rampage may have gotten himself out of the picture for a little while:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-071508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[DunlopolnuD]

Damn, and I thought he was taking the loss well...

[DarkKnight81]

Sucks for him, what an idiot.

[scottmushroom]

TMZ has the pics up. His front left tire was completely shredded, there are some pics of him face down with cops pointing guns at him, some pics of him in the cop car, and I also noticed that his car is obscenely large and distinctive.

[DarkKnight81]

It's much worse than it sounded at first. The first thing I heard was hit and run like he'd hit a car and left the scene. Now it's he hit multiple cars, spead down the median, onto the sidewalks all while evading police. This is some serious shit.

[scottmushroom]

It's much worse than it sounded at first. The first thing I heard was hit and run like he'd hit a car and left the scene. Now it's he hit multiple cars, spead down the median, onto the sidewalks all while evading police. This is some serious shit.

Yeah I saw a report somewhere that said he was up for felony evasion on top of a bunch of other charges. I hate to see this happen since I love watching him fight, but that was some dumb shit he was pulling.

[the saw is family]

he appears to have had some sort of mental breakdown as when he was arrested he was sent the hospital because the police determined him to be mentally unfit to be held at the jail. there was an interview with him from the day before the incident where he was talking all weird and didn't even sound like himself. he was saying that the week after the fight he was depressed and couldn't sleep. really unfortunate for him and the people involved in the incident, i'm just glad no one was seriously hurt.

[DarkKnight81]

In lighter news...

Lyoto Machida vs Thiago Silva has been set for UFC 89. So it's official, Forrest is fighting the winner of Liddell-Evans. I wonder what's next for Wand?

[unspoken]

In lighter news...

Lyoto Machida vs Thiago Silva has been set for UFC 89. So it's official, Forrest is fighting the winner of Liddell-Evans. I wonder what's next for Wand?

The winner of Sokoudjou vs. Cane or James Irvin if he pulls the upset.

[unspoken]

Something that really sucks with all this Affliction vs. UFC and Rampage arrest stuff is that the finals of the DREAM lightweight grand prix on early Monday morning are being totally overlooked. Some great fights on that card. I can't wait for Alvarez vs. Kawajiri, and the only main event final set up out of the 4 possibilities that doesn't excite me too much is Alvarez vs. Uno.

Plus Hansen vs. Gill should be fun plus we get to see Akiyama, Tokoro, and Kid Yamamoto back in action.

I'm looking forward to this more than either of the cards on Saturday.

[scottmushroom]

The dream show should be sick. Too bad I don;t have access to HDnet. Its also too bad Diaz-Mach got cancelled since fatass Gary Shaw had to put Diaz on his damn CBS card from Stockton against a relative no name. I hope he loses again, Diaz (both of them actually) are such punks.

[scottmushroom]

I would also like to point out how funny the hindsight of this thread is.....most people had Eilers winning over Vera at 57, Chuck passing Quentin as a fighter, and especially the "Cro Cop is gonna wreck the UFC" talk. Granted, I felt the same way about most of it (I did pick Vera since Eilers has arguably the best HL of KOs from the receiving end in MMA)

I guess that's why I love the sport so much, there is never a sure bet.

[the saw is family]

Something that really sucks with all this Affliction vs. UFC and Rampage arrest stuff is that the finals of the DREAM lightweight grand prix on early Monday morning are being totally overlooked. Some great fights on that card. I can't wait for Alvarez vs. Kawajiri, and the only main event final set up out of the 4 possibilities that doesn't excite me too much is Alvarez vs. Uno.

Plus Hansen vs. Gill should be fun plus we get to see Akiyama, Tokoro, and Kid Yamamoto back in action.

I'm looking forward to this more than either of the cards on Saturday.


the dream card is gonna be great but yamamoto is off the card and tokoro was in a car accident and will probably not be competing either so that puts a little bit of a damper on it. the finals of the tournament should be great though and mamba vs. hansen should be really good too, hope it turns into a war.

[unspoken]

Overeem vs. Hunt added to Dream.

I'd rather have seen Hunt fight JLB, but this fight still kicks ass.

[DarkKnight81]

Man I'd really like to get this PPV tonight but I just can't afford it and the bar I go to watch UFC PPV's is showing the UFN. What the fuck, I can see that at home! I've never seen Fedor fight live and I guess that's going to continue.

[DarkKnight81]

Holy shit, one punch knockout for Silva while holding Irvin's foot! I've never seen a single punch produce a cut like that either.

[DunlopolnuD]

The end of the last 2 fights on the UFC card were pretty fucking sweet. Overall, I thought it was a pretty good event.

Heard about the results for the Affliction card, but didn't get to watch it.

Definitely can't wait for Dream 5, even with the cancelled fights.

[Salieri]

Fedor vs Tim is up already at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I2TV9Cq7xc

Watch it before it gets taken down.

[starcat]

Does anybody know when Brock Lesnar is gonna fight again. After that first fight, I would love to see him fight again, and I think this time he wont let his guard down no matter how hard he pummels them.

[DunlopolnuD]

Fedor Vs. Tim video is now down... I did get to see it though, and man did Fedor completely just dominate. As much fun as is it to watch a Fedor fight, I would've been disappointed had I paid for that.

I think Brock fights at the next UFC PPV, I believe it's on August 9th, it's on the card with St. Pierre vs. Fitch.

[DarkKnight81]

Does anybody know when Brock Lesnar is gonna fight again. After that first fight, I would love to see him fight again, and I think this time he wont let his guard down no matter how hard he pummels them.

Brock is fighting on August 9th at UFC 87 against Heath Herring. Brock is going to lose via submission. Heath is nearly as big as Brock and a far more complete fighter.

[scottmushroom]

Brock is fighting on August 9th at UFC 87 against Heath Herring. Brock is going to lose via submission. Heath is nearly as big as Brock and a far more complete fighter.

I just hope it doesn't turn into another Jake O'brien vs Heath Herring fight. O'Brien laid on Heath for 3 rounds, and he isn't close to as good a wrestler as Lesnar. Lesnar is a lot bigger than Heath too. Herring fights at 250-255 usually while Brock cuts down to 265 from 280 or thereabouts. I hope Heath wins though. If he can keep it standing I think he will definitely take this one.

[unspoken]

Remember though, Herring had a blown knee going into that fight and was in between camps at the time after a reasonable layoff. His cardio has improved big time since he joined Xtreme Couture.

[Mopar Fanatic]

Now that that's over, does anybody really care to see Fedor beat the shit out of Couture in the future?

Randy - five rounds to grind out a decision against Sylvia

Fedor - 36 seconds

Randy is a great fighter. A great fighter. But his mythic status could very well be inappropriate. I don't think there is any reason to think he could beat Fedor. He is not going to knock him out or submit him, most likely. The way Randy beats good fighters is by physically dominating and outwrestling them, controlling people in the corner, etc... does anyone really think he is going to do that to Fedor? Although you can't really count Randy out, but he would have to really pull something out of his ass.

[scottmushroom]

Remember though, Herring had a blown knee going into that fight and was in between camps at the time after a reasonable layoff. His cardio has improved big time since he joined Xtreme Couture.
He has looked a hell of a lot better since then. But I also remember him ot being able to finish Kongo on the ground in a fight that was spent mostly on the ground. Plus Herring is bigger than O'Brien was, and I think the Cain Velasquez fight showed that O'Brien isn't an elite wrestler. Lesnar is an elite wrestler, and has 30 pounds on Herring. I am behind Herring 100% on this, been a fan of his since 2004, but I am concerned on this one.

[scottmushroom]

Now that that's over, does anybody really care to see Fedor beat the shit out of Couture in the future?

Randy - five rounds to grind out a decision against Sylvia

Fedor - 36 seconds

Randy is a great fighter. A great fighter. But his mythic status could very well be inappropriate. I don't think there is any reason to think he could beat Fedor. He is not going to knock him out or submit him, most likely. The way Randy beats good fighters is by physically dominating and outwrestling them, controlling people in the corner, etc... does anyone really think he is going to do that to Fedor? Although you can't really count Randy out, but he would have to really pull something out of his ass.

I would like to see the fight. Do I think Randy will win? no. But I have to figure he sees something to exploit in Fedor's game if he is going to all this trouble to fight him. I have no doubt that Randy would be able to get him down though. Lindland was able to (or would have had Fedor not grabbed the rope) and Randy is as good if not better Greco Roman as Lindland, plus has a good size/strength advantage over him. The question on this fight is whether or not Randy would be able to do anything with Fedor on the ground. I don't think he has much for him, but he will do better than Tim did.



EDIT: I would also like to add that the odds are really stacked against Randy since he uses the cage for alot of his clinching/takedowns/GnP. This would be rendered useless in a ring.

[DarkKnight81]

Fedor will retire Randy once and for all.

[DunlopolnuD]

I think for me, Dream had the best event of the weekend, that's one event that I wouldn't have regretted paying for... so it makes it even greater that it was free.

And I have to agree with DK, if the Fedor vs. Randy match does happen, Randy is done for.

[DarkKnight81]

I think Randy would put a good fight, but he doesn't have anything threatening enough to beat Fedor. Fedor would probably draw it out for a while, pound his face into hamburger, and make Randy regret the charade he's been putting on for the last year.

[Mopar Fanatic]

I would like to see the fight. Do I think Randy will win? no. But I have to figure he sees something to exploit in Fedor's game if he is going to all this trouble to fight him. I have no doubt that Randy would be able to get him down though. Lindland was able to (or would have had Fedor not grabbed the rope) and Randy is as good if not better Greco Roman as Lindland, plus has a good size/strength advantage over him. The question on this fight is whether or not Randy would be able to do anything with Fedor on the ground. I don't think he has much for him, but he will do better than Tim did.



EDIT: I would also like to add that the odds are really stacked against Randy since he uses the cage for alot of his clinching/takedowns/GnP. This would be rendered useless in a ring.

Fedor has shown succeptability to takedowns from good wrestlers like Coleman, Randleman and Arona. Couture very well could be the greatest challenge to Fedor. Couture is a well rounded wrestler that might be able to take Fedor down. Control him on the other hand is questionable. Also have to take in consideration the fact that he's 45 and getting older and has been incative for a long time. There's a likelihood that when he fights Fedor he would be a shell of himself when he fought Sylvia and Gonzaga.

In all honesty I'd give Randy the benifit of the doubt and say he survives through the first round but turns around and gets caught in a submission in the 2nd.

[the saw is family]

the only way randy wins a fight over fedor is by cut stoppage and imo that's not a legit win. yeah randy may be able to get fedor down, but then whats he going to do. fedors transitions on the ground are as good as they get and he's just as strong as randy. i don't see randy surviving past the second round, fedor probably wins by armbar off of his back. as for the dream event it was solid. alvarez/kawajari is a fight of the year candidate. the way the grand prix ended really left a sour taste in my mouth and just went to show why having the semi's and finals in the same night is outdated. an alternate should not win a tournament especially one that lost earlier in the tournament. thats not a bash on hansen as i like him alot as a fighter but he shouldn't have even had the opportunity to win the tournament. the same thing happened when misaki won the pride welterweight tournament, i don't know how much more reason they need to hold the semi's and finals on separate events.

[Salieri]

I'd give Arlovski a much greater chance at beating Fedor than Randy just because Arlovski is equally quick and powerful.

[unspoken]

I don't know why, but I don't see Fedor subbing Randy. Randy has very underrated sub defense, and went to a draw in a submission grappling tournament against Jacare. Yeah, it's different when you're getting punched in the face, but that's still impressive. If anything, I'd say Fedor wins by late TKO or decision.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to watch Alvarez vs. Kawajiri...for the fourth time today. I'm not sure it beats Torres/Maeda for FOTY, but damn close. Can't wait for the Alvarez/Hansen rematch.

[Mopar Fanatic]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/...=6742&zoneid=2

The California State Athletic Commission on Monday released the fighter salary information for Affliction “Banned,” featuring Fedor Emelianenko vs. Tim Sylvia, which took place on Saturday, July 19, at the Honda Center in Anaheim, Calif.

The following figures are based on the fighter salary information that promoters are required by law to submit to the state athletic commissions, including the winners' bonuses.

Although mixed martial arts fighters do not have collective bargaining or a union, the fighters' salaries are still public record, just as with every other major sport in the United States. Any undisclosed bonuses that a promoter also pays its fighters, but does not disclose to the athletic commissions (specifically, pay-per-view bonuses, fight of the night bonuses, etc.), are not included in the figures below.

In the listings below, "Main Event Fighters" are defined as fighters who compete in the main event of a show. "Main Card Fighters" are defined as fighters whose fights appear on the main card, but not in the main event. "Preliminary Card Fighters" are defined as fighters whose matches take place before the live broadcast goes on the air, regardless of whether or not those matches end up airing on the TV or Internet broadcast.


MAIN EVENT FIGHTERS

– Fedor Emelianenko ($300,000/no win bonus) def. Tim Sylvia ($800,000)


MAIN CARD FIGHTERS

– Andre Arlovski ($750,000/$250,000 win bonus) def. Ben Rothwell ($250,000)

– Josh Barnett ($300,000/no win bonus) def. Pedro Rizzo ($70,000)

– Mark Hominick ($10,000/win bonus was $5,000) def. Savant Young ($7,000)

– Renato “Babalu” Sobral ($90,000/win bonus was $30,000) def. Mike Whitehead ($50,000)

– Matt Lindland ($300,000/win bonus was $75,000) def. Fabio “Negao” Nascimiento ($20,000)

– Antonio Rogerio Nogueira ($50,000/no win bonus) def. Edwin Dewees ($15,000)

– Mike Pyle ($20,000/win bonus was $5,000) def. J.J. Ambrose ($5,000)


PRELIMINARY CARD FIGHTERS

– Vitor Belfort ($140,000/win bonus was $70,000) def. Terry Martin ($30,000)

– Paul Buentello ($80,000/win bonus was $20,000) def. Gary Goodridge ($25,000)

– Justin Levens ($6,000) vs. Ray Lizama ($3,000)*

*Bout did not take place. Total pay was negotiated.


AFFLICTION “BANNED” DISCLOSED FIGHTER PAYROLL: $3,321,000

[Mopar Fanatic]

– Fedor Emelianenko ($300,000/no win bonus) def. Tim Sylvia ($800,000)

Ouch!

[unspoken]

I'd gladly take a beating from Fedor to make $22222.22 per second.

[scottmushroom]

I'd gladly take a beating from Fedor to make $22222.22 per second.
Agreed....I wouldn't even make him risk breaking his hand by punching me. I would simply cut to the point and lay down on the ground and let him hop on and choke me long enough for me to tap. Or if they were paying me by the second I would backpedal for a few minutes and fall over from a jab.

[scottmushroom]

– Fedor Emelianenko ($300,000/no win bonus) def. Tim Sylvia ($800,000)

Ouch!
The one that gets me is Ben Rothwell getting 250,000 for losing comapred to Fedor's 300,000. Sylvia and AA I can understand since a lot of casual fans will recognize then from UFC, but Rothwell was just the IFL HW posterboy and doesn't have nearly the fanbase the others have.

[Mopar Fanatic]

The one that gets me is Ben Rothwell getting 250,000 for losing comapred to Fedor's 300,000. Sylvia and AA I can understand since a lot of casual fans will recognize then from UFC, but Rothwell was just the IFL HW posterboy and doesn't have nearly the fanbase the others have.

Those numbers just scream stupid.

The IFL is a perfect example of what happens when you blow your brains out on fighter salaries and over zealous expansion.

If Affliction thinks paying $125,000 for the Buentello/Goodridge fight is a money making decision, they won't be in business for much longer. And that isn't good for the sport or fighters salaries.

[DunlopolnuD]

That's retarded, so what they're trying to say is if you have a UFC background, you'll get paid your big nut? Shouldn't they be trying to keep Fedor, and not get him to sign with the UFC?

Anyway, Sylvia is one lucky fuck (albeit, a bruised and beaten one).

[the saw is family]

unfortunately affliction is not gonna last. those payouts are insane, especially for sylvia a guy who's good but has at least one loss to every top ten opponent he's ever faced. they had to have lost a ton on the first show. i can see them attempting maybe one or two more shows and that will probably be it. also paying vitor that much money is really stupid. he hasn't beaten top flight comp in a long time. just goes to show in combat sports all you really need is a good couple of years and if you fade you can still live off of your name alone.

[DarkKnight81]

Who the fuck decided to give Timmy $800 grand? Even if he would have lasted 3 rounds, people hate him and it's because he's a big stupid oaf. I think Fedor fights Randy next but I'd like to see Barnett and Arlovski square off for the next shot.

[DunlopolnuD]

I read that Fedor said his next opponent was going to be Arlovski, then have a fight on New Years, and then Barnett in March.

I'm not saying that as fact, but that's what I read, I'll look for a link.

[the saw is family]

yeah i read that also, i hope thats the way his schedule plays out. i'm sure the new years fight will be more of a freak show or something that will play to the japanese audience more. i definitely think arlovski and barnett have a better chance against fedor than randy does, even though i think fedor will beat all three of them. was it me or did randy look small in the ring after the fedor/tim fight? i know he'll bulk up for a fight but he seemed really small to me.

[scottmushroom]

Those numbers just scream stupid.

The IFL is a perfect example of what happens when you blow your brains out on fighter salaries and over zealous expansion.

If Affliction thinks paying $125,000 for the Buentello/Goodridge fight is a money making decision, they won't be in business for much longer. And that isn't good for the sport or fighters salaries.

My thoughts exactly. Buentello will forever be known to me as the guy who was out against Arlovski before anyone realized it. As for Goodridge, he is an old-school fighter, but not a serious threat to pretty much anyone anymore. Was the number so high because they paid him the same as they were going to pay Aleks maybe?

[Salieri]

Those numbers just scream stupid.

The IFL is a perfect example of what happens when you blow your brains out on fighter salaries and over zealous expansion.

If Affliction thinks paying $125,000 for the Buentello/Goodridge fight is a money making decision, they won't be in business for much longer. And that isn't good for the sport or fighters salaries.

Why does Buentello get so much money? Because nobody can make a crowd pop like him! Just check out his Stone Coldesque performance here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ5JuWvgmjo) Not every fighter can command that type of crowd response.

[Mopar Fanatic]

I suspect the number was so high for Goodridge because he was about as late a replacement as is possible. Also, I'm sure they were going to pay Aleks significantly more, so they probably saved a bit of money despite over-paying.

[bourahioro]

Well...If they paid Sylvia 800grand, imagine what they'd pay Randy.

[DarkKnight81]

Affliction 2 is confirmed for October at the UNLV arena, main event is Fedor vs Arlovski. If they can get a good card put together I'm going to buy it. Fedor by KO round 2.

[DunlopolnuD]

Sweet! I really hope that turns out to be better than the Sylvia/Fedor match-up, the Pitbull better be on top of his game again.

[DarkKnight81]

Other rumored bouts are Lindland vs Belfort, Barnett vs Sylvia, and Babalu vs Tito Ortiz.

[the saw is family]

Other rumored bouts are Lindland vs Belfort, Barnett vs Sylvia, and Babalu vs Tito Ortiz.

pretty decent match ups. i'd love to see barnett sub timmy via kneebar or heel hook. i was hoping they would match up babalu with rogerio nog, but tito is ok i guess. also supposedly dana has a big announcement during the replay of ufc 84 on spike saturday night. my guess he'll be announcing the ufc's purchase of the ifl, and what fighters they will be bringing over.

[kcvoorhees]

I found this Georges St. Pierre song online it's an awesome techno beat with dialogue clips from interviews of him mixed in it's brilliant and pretty catchy.
I thought it was a nice warm up to his fight with Fitch in a few weeks.

http://boomp3.com/listen/4b8b3g7t_g/gsp-is-not-impressed

Ju-juitsus, Matt Hughes-Not Impressed. Lol

[DarkKnight81]

Apparently Okami broke his hand but I smell a coward. So...Anderson Silva vs Patrick Cote is taking place at UFC 90. Anderson by devastating KO round 1.

[the saw is family]

Apparently Okami broke his hand but I smell a coward. So...Anderson Silva vs Patrick Cote is taking place at UFC 90. Anderson by devastating KO round 1.

yeah cote is already saying he wants to stand and bang with anderson. i believe his quote was "it'll take 10 of his hits to put me out, and only one of mine to put him out" while yes cote does have amazing power the must underrated thing about anderson is his chin. watch his fight against jorge rivera in cage rage, where rivera lands 6 straight heavy right hands in the clinch and anderson doesn't budge. also check out the video of anderson sparring without head gear against rodrigo nog, and nog could barely budge him. anderson can take a shot and he will stand up to anything cote throws at him. andy puts him away before the 2nd.

[DarkKnight81]

I'm sorry but Cote is overrated garbage. He has losses against Chris Leben and Travis Lutter, two guys Anderson destroyed. He doesn't have a single noteworthy win. He's only getting a shot because Anderson has beat everyone else and Okami is hurt. Way to go hot shot! Keep talking shit and let Anderson do the talking in the cage.

[scottmushroom]

Apparently Okami broke his hand but I smell a coward. So...Anderson Silva vs Patrick Cote is taking place at UFC 90. Anderson by devastating KO round 1.
Heh can you blame Okami? I'll stick with winning by getting kicked in the face if I was him too....at least he has a W to go with the pain. If anyone hasn't seen that fight here it is. It looks funny seeing these two at 170 since neither of them are considered small 185ers. Its a sick KO.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=StYulH-yKsk
Interesting tidbit: The Rumble on the Rock ref for most of the fights is TUF season 5 competitor Troy Mandalonez.

[DarkKnight81]

Well Rampage has officially rid himself of Juanito Ibarra and says he could be back in the octagon as soon as November or December pending a mental evaluation and any legal problems. I don't see how he'd get away without any jail time and if he pleads insanity they won't let him fight. On the other hand his rumored opponent is Wanderlei Silva for either UFC 91 or 92...so let's hope he gets cleared!

[the saw is family]

Well Rampage has officially rid himself of Juanito Ibarra and says he could be back in the octagon as soon as November or December pending a mental evaluation and any legal problems. I don't see how he'd get away without any jail time and if he pleads insanity they won't let him fight. On the other hand his rumored opponent is Wanderlei Silva for either UFC 91 or 92...so let's hope he gets cleared!

i don't think he's going to see any jail time. as far as i've heard his record is clean, and first timers usually don't get locked up for something that while it was deadly serious it really isn't that much criminally. no one was hurt so there won't be any vehicular homicide or manslaughter charges. his mental state will be a factor also, i see him getting a nice stretch of probation, huge fines, and maybe some community service. i also don't think he should fight this year. i do wanna see him complete the trilogy with wand, but i think give wand another opponent, if he wins set up rampage/silva 3 for the pre superbowl show.

[DarkKnight81]

The other guy i'd like to see Wand fight is Goran Reljic who was impressive against Gouveia.

[unspoken]

WEC tonight!! I'm excited to see Condit again even though this fight should be a cakewalk for him.

Varner vs. Hicks could be quite the fight as well.

[DarkKnight81]

Three title fights tonight, I'm pumped. Although Brian Stann being the LHW champ just shows how weak that division is in WEC.

[unspoken]

Wow, Miura actually gave Condit one hell of a fight.

Kinda glad to see Stann lose, he's a very one-dimensional fighter and, not to disrespect it or anything, but it starts to get annoying how they play the whole former Marine thing.

[Criminal Rock]

Woot Varner... AZCS Represent!

[DarkKnight81]

Arlovski vs Fedor is off because Fedor broke his fist on Timmy's face. So now it's Arlovski vs Barnett October 11, winner likely gets Fedor in March. Fedor's manager says he might still fight Crocop on NYE in Japan if his hand is healthy. I'll take Arlovski 2nd round KO.

[Salieri]

Arlovski vs Barnett is a great fight too. I'll say Barnett TKO.

[the saw is family]

if arlovski comes out like he did against rothwell it's gonna be a hell of fight. barnett is tough as nails and imo the 3rd best heavyweight in the world. if arlovski comes out hesitant barnett will sub him.

[scottmushroom]

AA-Barnett is a win-win for the fans since that fight in itself will be awesome.....plus the winner gets Fedor and either of those fights should make MMA fans damn near cream their pants!

[DarkKnight81]

Ok, time for some UFC 87 picks. Who ya got?

GSP vs Fitch: GSP via Unanimous Decision (49-46)
Florian vs Huerta: I'd love to see Huerta kill Kenny but..KenFlo TKO(Cut) Rd. 2
Lesnar vs Herring: Herring via sub round 2

And the rest of the card is grade D shit, so I won't even bother. Hopefully Kongo wins by KO, that's all.

[the saw is family]

gsp over fitch via ground and pound tko rd. 3.
lesnar over herring gnp tko round 1 (i have no confidence in this pick and wouldn't be surprised to see herring sub him)
kenflo over huerta via ud.
manny over emerson via sub round 2 (how the fuck did this make the main card)
maia over mcdonald via rnc late third round (i'm actually pretty excited for this fight, should have a ton of high level ground work)

[scottmushroom]

I just hope it doesn't turn into another Jake O'brien vs Heath Herring fight. O'Brien laid on Heath for 3 rounds, and he isn't close to as good a wrestler as Lesnar. Lesnar is a lot bigger than Heath too. Herring fights at 250-255 usually while Brock cuts down to 265 from 280 or thereabouts. I hope Heath wins though. If he can keep it standing I think he will definitely take this one.

indeed.

[starcat]

Spoilers


It was a decent card...even a 12 second knockout.

Fitch has a serious chin, he got beat from beginning to end by st. pierre, and I think he could have went another round.

Brock Lesner could possibly be awesome... he was entirely too much on the defensive in this fight. You could tell Frank Mear getting that submission on him in the last fight had him worried. When he learns to fight like he did with Mear and be defensive at the same time he could be unstoppable. If he hadnt tried to go for the spear in the first round after that huge punch and instead ran over and continued punching him I think the fight would have been over alot quicker. He still threw him around like a little rag doll though.

[DarkKnight81]

Great card.

Fitch showed a lot of heart but got his ass kicked for 5 rounds. Looks like GSP vs Penn is next.

Lesnar is a fucking tool. He was not impressive after the first ten seconds of the fight and then he mocks and laughs at Heath Herring. What the fuck is wrong with this guy? He might be the biggest (literally) duchebag in the UFC. I hope he fights Werdum or Gonzaga next so they can teach him a lesson like Mir did.

Florian vs Huerta lived up to the billing and I thought it was the fight of the night. I wonder what's next for KenFlo since BJ will likely fight GSP. Frankie Edgar perhaps.

Demian Maia vs Jason McDonald was a fantastic, technical fight. If Maia works on his standup he could be a threat to Anderson.

I'll never talk shit about Rob Emerson again. We were all laughing at his 9-6 record and being on the main card and 12 seconds later he's 10-6. At least Manny was classy unlike his cousin.

[SweetEnLow]

Lesnar is a fucking tool. He was not impressive after the first ten seconds of the fight and then he mocks and laughs at Heath Herring. What the fuck is wrong with this guy? He might be the biggest (literally) duchebag in the UFC. I hope he fights Werdum or Gonzaga next so they can teach him a lesson like Mir did.




I think he has potential to be great, but I hope next time he doesn't act like such a tool. Trash talking before the fight is to be expected, but he made himself look like a real dumbass. He needs to take lessons from GSP on respect.

[Donnie_Darko]

Dana is turning the UFC into a circus act. He's taking the flash of Pride, and mixing in the "entertainment" of pro-wrestling (for the record, I'm a HUGE wrestling fan... but not Sports Entertainment. It's all about ROH for me) . Trash talking, and all that post match bullshit. Trust me, Dana TOLD Brock, "If you win this, and I'm confident you will, trash him down, and act the fool. People will eat that shit up." And Brock is used to taking dumb orders, from a stupid person.

Given time, I think Lesnar COULD be a fucking force in MMA... given time, patience, and a well rounded knowledge of ground offense. He can take just about anyone down, but once there, he didn't do anything. And the dude's a monster... :cool:

Haven't watched the whole card yet, just that match, so I can't comment on the rest of it... yet.

[the saw is family]

Dana is turning the UFC into a circus act. He's taking the flash of Pride, and mixing in the "entertainment" of pro-wrestling (for the record, I'm a HUGE wrestling fan... but not Sports Entertainment. It's all about ROH for me) . Trash talking, and all that post match bullshit. Trust me, Dana TOLD Brock, "If you win this, and I'm confident you will, trash him down, and act the fool. People will eat that shit up." And Brock is used to taking dumb orders, from a stupid person.

Given time, I think Lesnar COULD be a fucking force in MMA... given time, patience, and a well rounded knowledge of ground offense. He can take just about anyone down, but once there, he didn't do anything. And the dude's a monster... :cool:

Haven't watched the whole card yet, just that match, so I can't comment on the rest of it... yet.

actually i can pretty much guarantee you that dana didn't say that. thats how brock is he's a showman, he's use to acting like that. there's also nothing resembling pride at all in the ufc, nowhere even close. the trash talking has been there forever just like it has in all combat sports. and the post match call outs have been done forever as well. there's no circus atmosphere at all in the ufc, pride was much closer to the atmosphere than the ufc ever has been or ever will be, and i'm not saying that as a knock on pride as they were my favorite mma org for a really long time.

[KingofKings2525]

Brock is the future.

[Criminal Rock]

Why? Because he beat heath herring?? I wouldn't go that far and say he's 'the future', he poses serious threats to every heavyweight fighter in the UFC due to his ridiculously massive size, for sure... but I don't see Brock becoming the champ any time soon.

[KingofKings2525]

It's not because he beat herring it's because of the way he did it. He man-handled and toyed with him the entire time. He's going to be a force.

[DarkKnight81]

It's not because he beat herring it's because of the way he did it. He man-handled and toyed with him the entire time. He's going to be a force.

The UFC isn't about toying with your opponent, its about defeating them in a martial arts fight. So while Brock may have won a decision, he didn't come close to stopping Heath. Heath was never ONCE in serious trouble. So congratulations to Brock for winning the wrestling match on Saturday. Big Nog will submit Brock and he won't point and laugh in his face when he does it.

[the saw is family]

brock has a ton of potential, but it's fairly obvious he's not ready for rogerio nog, or werdum or gonzaga or any high level jiu jitsu heavyweight. the rest of the division is gonna have a hard time with him though. he needs to improve so much though. he could have put a rnc on heath so many times during that fight and it looked like he had no idea how. his size and athleticism will always make him a factor but he's a good 7-10 fights away from being a legitimate threat to anyone near the top of the division. he should fight cheick kongo next.

[DarkKnight81]

Brock has the potential to be the next Tito, a boring, shit talking idiot. He didn't go for an RNC because Heath might have had an opportunity to counter. Brock knew if he just lay on Heath and not go for anything he could hold Heath down. That fight should have been stood up several times.

[bourahioro]

Brock has the potential to be the next Tito, a boring, shit talking idiot. He didn't go for an RNC because Heath might have had an opportunity to counter. Brock knew if he just lay on Heath and not go for anything he could hold Heath down. That fight should have been stood up several times.

Let's face it, Heath Herring is a CAN.

[DarkKnight81]

Let's face it, Heath Herring is a CAN.


http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa13/max2400/forumpics/wrong.jpg

How is Heath a can? 28-14 is not a can. If Heath is a can then so is Couture. I'd say his best days are behind him but he's not a can.

[scottmushroom]

I don't think Herring is a can by any means. He does need to work on his defense against wrestlers, but he has gone the distance against some good guys, including Nogueria twice. He has also beaten some quality oppenents. Hell he lasted longer against Fedor than Sylvia did (Fight was stopped for a cut btw). He is very tough to finish as well. I won't say he is an elite HW fighter, but he is a solid gatekeeper for guys trying to get to that level (Kongo comes to mind)

[Cosimo]

is the date scheduled for rogers v kimbo fight yet?

[DarkKnight81]

is the date scheduled for rogers v kimbo fight yet?

October 4th. Gina Carano is fighting that night too.

[the saw is family]

i don't think it's been confirmed that kimbo is fighting rogers yet. no fights have been finalized for the october 4th card to my knowledge.

[scottmushroom]

i don't think it's been confirmed that kimbo is fighting rogers yet. no fights have been finalized for the october 4th card to my knowledge.

That is correct....although Gary Shaw stepping down makes that fight a lot more likely...I say throw Kimbo in there with a HW that possesses some form of a ground game as well as a solid chin and kill the hype train.

[Cosimo]

i recognise that kimbo will probably get dealt with fighting someone with a solid ground game but he makes for a good watch for sure

[the saw is family]

exc's financial report was released and they are in big big trouble. they canceled their september 20th show and i don't think the cbs deal can save them at this point. i would not be surprised to see them fold in less than a years time.

[scottmushroom]

exc's financial report was released and they are in big big trouble. they canceled their september 20th show and i don't think the cbs deal can save them at this point. i would not be surprised to see them fold in less than a years time.
They have cancelled a few shows. They were so desperate for numbers that they pulled Nick Diaz out of a fight in Dream with Mach Sakurai (that would have been huge) to fight a no name on their CBS card. Their early shows were pretty good, but then they got onto the Kimbo train and it is killing them. Same with Carano, they can only protect their name fighters for so long.

[DarkKnight81]

UFC 91 is rumored to be taking place in Portland, Oregon on November 15th. I will DEFINITELY be going if it's true. The only rumored fights at this time are Kenny Florian vs Joe Stevenson and Brock Lesnar vs Cheick Kongo. Not likely that there will be a title fight in there unless Chuck has a quick KO of Rashad than perhaps he'll get Forrest. Either way, I'm stoked for my first UFC.

[scottmushroom]

UFC 91 is rumored to be taking place in Portland, Oregon on November 15th. I will DEFINITELY be going if it's true. The only rumored fights at this time are Kenny Florian vs Joe Stevenson and Brock Lesnar vs Cheick Kongo. Not likely that there will be a title fight in there unless Chuck has a quick KO of Rashad than perhaps he'll get Forrest. Either way, I'm stoked for my first UFC.
Right now its looking like Lesnar will be the main event, and it will probably be against Kongo like you said.

[DarkKnight81]

I'd much rather see Lesnar vs. Gonzaga. Kongo doesn't stand much of a chance. I've also heard that Wand vs Page could possibly be the main event.

[the saw is family]

well the october 4th exc card is set. kimbo will continue to face over the hill should be retired fighters when he squares off against ken shamrock. yeah there's off chance ken takes him down and gets a leg lock, but ken will be a dumbass and try and to stand and get koed. jake shields versus semtex daley should be a good fight, but shields should notch another submission victory. ninja versus benji radach could have fireworks, i expect ninja to win by a late tko. the ladies fights should be alright, even though carano versus lady cyborg would have been much better.

[DarkKnight81]

Kimbo is a joke. They really expect us to take a fight with Ken Shamrock seriously. Ken hasn't had a decent win in about a decade, not to mention he got phantom Ko'd in his last fight. Smells like a work to me.

[scottmushroom]

I hope shammy gets a leglock so he can retire with a fucking win. I think his last win was Kimo.....yeah.....in '04. It would be a good way to hang up the gloves.

[the saw is family]

Kimbo is a joke. They really expect us to take a fight with Ken Shamrock seriously. Ken hasn't had a decent win in about a decade, not to mention he got phantom Ko'd in his last fight. Smells like a work to me.

i don't think it's a work i think they just know that ken is a prideful dumbass who will be stupid enough to stand and most likely get ktfo or get dropped and completely give up like he does when he gets knocked down. ken shamrock's will to fight gives in when he's knocked down. f kimbo though, at least ninja, daley and shields will all get some time in the spotlight on national tv.

[DarkKnight81]

Source: www.mmajunkie.com (http://www.mmajunkie.com)

Looks like Randy Couture could soon settle his case with the UFC...inside the octagon! I thought it could come down to this, to bad Nog already has Mir lined up. Man I hope its in November in Oregon against Lesnar! Can you even imagine how badass that would be?

[the saw is family]

Source: www.mmajunkie.com (http://www.mmajunkie.com)

Looks like Randy Couture could soon settle his case with the UFC...inside the octagon! I thought it could come down to this, to bad Nog already has Mir lined up. Man I hope its in November in Oregon against Lesnar! Can you even imagine how badass that would be?

the rumor is that he'll be returning in november for the oregon show. lesnar has been named as a possible opponent. there's multiple sources for the return to the ufc rumor. there was also a thread started on sherdog by someone who trains at extreme couture saying randy had been back in the gym training hard. him vs. lesnar would be cool but what i really hope is that the potential fight with fedor may happen in the ufc, probably not but i'm hoping.

[unspoken]

He's not going to fight Lesnar. Bottom line, if Randy fights someone, it will be Nogueira. Champ vs. Interim Champ. There really is no other option.

[the saw is family]

He's not going to fight Lesnar. Bottom line, if Randy fights someone, it will be Nogueira. Champ vs. Interim Champ. There really is no other option.

the talk is that that if he comes back it will be in a non title fight. if he comes back in november he will not fight nog, as the ufc and zuffa is not gonna throw away their entire season of tuf, thats already been filmed and used to build mir/nog.

[DarkKnight81]

Why not have him fight Lesnar? Dana probably wants Randy to get his ass beat so that the Fedor fight is less of a draw. Randy is a legend but Lesnar is probably the absolute WORST matchup for him. Lesnar is fighting in November, Couture is possibly, how could you not match these two up? And if Randy wants to fight again, there's no reason why he can't fight the winner of Nog/Mir. Remember, Mir never lost the belt either. The only other person I could Randy fighting is Werdum, which I think he could win. UFC doesnt want that.

[scottmushroom]

You never know. They may very well want him to win:
http://mmajunkie.com/news/5176/sources-couture-versus-emelianenko-targeted-for-super-bowl-weekend.mma

[Criminal Rock]

As long as it's settled, I'm happy. I don't care who Randy fights next.

[DarkKnight81]

Wow, so if Randy wins he gets Fedor. So what if he loses, does Lesnar get Fedor or does the fight just get canceled? I really hope they can work this shit out.

[scottmushroom]

Wow, so if Randy wins he gets Fedor. So what if he loses, does Lesnar get Fedor or does the fight just get canceled? I really hope they can work this shit out.

Hopefully Randy will beat Lesnar and they will at least get Fedor a 1 fight deal that doesn't conflict with his Sambo.

[DarkKnight81]

Well the UFC's big announcement is due to take place in 15 minutes and the rumor is that randy couture has signed a new 3 fight contract. First fight Brock Lesnar at UFC 91. If he WINS, Fedor at UFC 93(Super Saturday) and if he wins that, the winner of Nog/Mir. Obviously who knows if this is anywhere near true and I would say that the odds are greatly stacked against Randy to make it through Lesnar, let alone Fedor. But I don't think Randy really deserves a fight with Fedor more than anybody, so I guess a win over a monster like Lesnar may make it more interesting.

[DarkKnight81]

Good news and bad news. Bad news is no UFC 91 in Portland :(. Good news is UFC 91's main event is Randy Couture vs Brock Lesnar for the heavyweight title, winner fights the winner of Nog/Mir in early 09 to unify the belts. Sad news, Lesnar is 1-1 in UFC and getting a title shot....and will probably win. I don't know what Randy can do to stop Brock unless he catches him early.

[unspoken]

What a joke. I'm actually pissed off right now. No way should this be a title fight. I can name at least 4 guys more deserving to fight Randy for the "official" heavyweight title.

[scottmushroom]

What a joke. I'm actually pissed off right now. No way should this be a title fight. I can name at least 4 guys more deserving to fight Randy for the "official" heavyweight title.
Yes but from a business standpoint this was the biggest fight they could possibly put on. The buyrate for this one will be redonkulous.

[DarkKnight81]

I think the whole situation could be resolved if they would just stop calling Randy the heavyweight champion. He quit, went to court, talked shit about the UFC. Why the hell don't they just strip him of the belt. Nog beat Sylvia for the belt, it's bullshit. If they just had Couture fighting Lesnar and the winner gets a title shot against Nog/Mir, then it would appear much more legit. Randy shouldnt be recognized as champ and Lesnar shouldn't be getting a shot at the champ. The winner deserves a shot, but one of those two guys walking out as champ on November 15th is complete bullshit.

[the saw is family]

i don't like seeing brock get a title shot this early, but i also think nog is a better fighter than anyone in this mini tournament and will come out the champion at the end of it all.

[sbunn10]

I hope Couture beats the shit out of Lesnar.. after Lesnar's last fight, I was impressed, until he started acting like a complete douchebag and dancing around and saying "See me now!? See me now?" This isn't the fucking WWE Brock. Get the fuck out.

Anyways, I'm pumped for Liddell vs Evans this saturday.

[the saw is family]

this is probably the least excited i've been for an event in a long while. there's some good fights but not anything with alot of meaning. i'll be watching online saturday night instead of buying it.

[DarkKnight81]

I'm actually really excited about this event which sucks because I'll be on a plane and unable to watch it live.

[Criminal Rock]

The card is decent enough to get excited over... Though, the match-ups seem a tad bit uneven, but we'll see.

[eljefe15]

I hope Couture beats the shit out of Lesnar.. after Lesnar's last fight, I was impressed, until he started acting like a complete douchebag and dancing around and saying "See me now!? See me now?" This isn't the fucking WWE Brock. Get the fuck out.

Anyways, I'm pumped for Liddell vs Evans this saturday.

I agree. Although I was impressed with how he was able to manhandle his opponent, I was put off by the celebration. I mean, all fighters celebrate like that after fights, some more than others but he hasn't done much in the UFC so he needs to accomplish something first then he can celebrate. But with that said, I think he'll do well against Couture. I think it'll be a good fight.

[scottmushroom]

I just wish they hadn't come to Atlanta the one weekend I will be out of town the entire second half of the year. I'm a big MMA fan and this is the only time in the last few years that they have come anywhere close to me, and it just happens to be virtually in my backyard and I will be stuck at a wedding I would not have RSVPd for had I known this was going to be this weekend....:mad:

[sbunn10]

I just wish they hadn't come to Atlanta the one weekend I will be out of town the entire second half of the year. I'm a big MMA fan and this is the only time in the last few years that they have come anywhere close to me, and it just happens to be virtually in my backyard and I will be stuck at a wedding I would not have RSVPd for had I known this was going to be this weekend....:mad:

what a bummer

[Criminal Rock]

God damn that was ridiculous.