Is West Virginia really this bad?

[someguy]

7% vote for John Edwards?

41% lead over Obama?

THIS? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/13/west-virginia-primary-igo_n_101512.html)

2/3rds of white voters saying they won't vote Obama in the general election because of his race? (http://www.abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Politics/story?id=4844868&page=1)

wtf is this

[Ayestrain]

7% vote for John Edwards?

41% lead over Obama?

THIS? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/13/west-virginia-primary-igo_n_101512.html)

2/3rds of white voters saying they won't vote Obama in the general election because of his race? (http://www.abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Politics/story?id=4844868&page=1)

wtf is this

It's like the guy said in his analysis: "less educated, lower-income whites predominating in this southern state.."

If there are enough stupid people in America like this, who wouldn't vote for the best candidate because of his mixed race, than the GOP and McBush can continue to dominate and this country is officially done for.

[Homyrrh]

I went to boarding school 20 miles west of Cumberland, MD, which is an easy 10, maybe 15 minutes drive south to WV.

There were several kids from juvenile facilities that were sent to the school, and they provided a solid portrait of many aspects of West Virginian mentalities. There's was a kid in my group who was unanimously deemed inbred by the rest of us. While of course the vast majority of West Virginians are not inbred, the few that are lead lives legitimately secluded from mainstream society and, honestly, hold VERY old school ideals. Of the half-dozen WV guys at the school, they all lived in a 10-mile radius and five of them in the same backwoods, mountaintop town/village.

Also, a friend goes to Clemson down in South Carolina. Though he's from suburban north Jersey, he's a straight, self-admitted hick who actually lived on a farm up here. Though distinctly intoxicated a couple nights ago (which probably resulted in revealing his most honest thought), he was explaining to a couple guys (including me) that while he wasn't quite racist, the fraternity he just finished pledging at would NEVER include a "nigger" (please excse the poetic license). He went on to basically say that, at Clemson (just kind of a metaphor for a larger Southern picture), there were "black" parties and there were "white" parties. You either went to one or to the other. Basically it was a contemporary manifestation of the Jim Crow laws back in the middle of the 20th century..."separate but equal".

Also, Ayestrain, I personally wouldn't be able to add anything to the similaites between Bush and McCain, and there aren't many to begin with. But alas, this is why I was surprised as a 14/15 year old in the 2004 election. EVERYONE EVERYWHERE gave Bush the big ol' "fuck you"...then he beat Kerry out by, what, 4 million votes (?). It was not apparent to me at the time that hillbillies just don't hold press conferences or officially endorsecandidates. Ultimately, however, they comprise possibly the largest major demographic in the nation.

[MadsenOMC]

This is hardly surprising. America is more racist than people want to admit. I'm sure some of you are familiar with the Curious George T-shirt story.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/stories/2008/05/13/mulligans_0514.html

This is also a disturbing, disheartening story about the racism that Obama staffers have encountered in states like Indiana and Pennsylvania while working on behalf of the candidate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051203014_pf.html

[Brando @$$ Fat]

We're talking about a state so lacking in creativity that they stole the name of their state capital from an already prominent city. This would've been the modern-day equivalence of Montana establishing a new state capital and naming it New York City.

As for racism in politics, it is virtually nonexistent.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/82/Haroldcallme.png/180px-Haroldcallme.png

[Homyrrh]

As for racism in politics, it is virtually nonexistent.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/82/Haroldcallme.png/180px-Haroldcallme.png


:confused::eek:

[Ayestrain]

As for racism in politics, it is virtually nonexistent.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/82/Haroldcallme.png/180px-Haroldcallme.png

I remember this political ad--can't exactly remember who the candidates were (state rep race or something)--but it was strongly implied that this black or mixed candidate was having his way with white women (hence the "call me" thing).

Didn't the person behind this ad jump on with the McCain campaign?

You know once Obama officially becomes the nominee, they'll be finding more and more subtle ways to attack his blackness..

[MadsenOMC]

If it is the ad you're referring to, it was in Tennessee against Harold Ford. It worked and he lost.

[Homyrrh]

I remember this political ad--can't exactly remember who the candidates were (state rep race or something)--but it was strongly implied that this black or mixed candidate was having his way with white women (hence the "call me" thing).

Didn't the person behind this ad jump on with the McCain campaign?

You know once Obama officially becomes the nominee, they'll be finding more and more subtle ways to attack his blackness..
'attack his blackness'...haha that sounded funny...

Obama's a pretty 'white' black man, at least by the definition from some of my friends from East Oak, Baltimore and Southeast D.C. Keep in consideration that many inner-city blacks are apathetic to the election.

[Squid Vicious]

Apparently. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-q4MDQ0cDI)

I think it was Winston Churchill who said that the best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. I'm pretty sure he meant representative democracy, but he still had a point...

[electriclite]

Ah yes. Once again West Virginians act West Virginian.

When will this state just secede from the Union and get it all over with? I'm sure the national average IQ will suddenly skyrocket when that day comes!

I had a history teacher who grew up on the western side of Virginia. Everytime he mentioned where he was from he always made doubly sure he over-pronounced the "ern" in "WestERN" Virginia, for reasons that are now made plainly obvious.

[notchreturns]

Those who voted for Hilary, but say if she doesn't get the nomination they would vote for McCain over Obama.... sadddd stuff.

I would like to think it's just heat of moment kinda talk but who knows.

Hopefully in November that shit calms down and those people realize horrible a decision that would be.

[jolanar]

When will this state just secede from the Union and get it all over with? I'm sure the national average IQ will suddenly skyrocket when that day comes!



The irony here being that the only reason West Virginia was created was because that part of Virginia DIDN'T want to secede from the union.

[Ayestrain]

Obama's a pretty 'white' black man, at least by the definition from some of my friends from East Oak, Baltimore and Southeast D.C. Keep in consideration that many inner-city blacks are apathetic to the election.

I understand that, I'm rather apathetic to it right now myself. I do honestly believe Obama is the best candidate however.

But I think people are realizing more and more that they have a stake in the outcome of this..look at the turnouts in the last 3 major elections and the primary turn outs.

[Homyrrh]

I understand that, I'm rather apathetic to it right now myself. I do honestly believe Obama is the best candidate however.

But I think people are realizing more and more that they have a stake in the outcome of this..look at the turnouts in the last 3 major elections and the primary turn outs.
Best candidate? I'd say he's the least experienced, and also inexcusably and irratably indefinitive.

[MadsenOMC]

So you are saying that best and most experienced are synonymous?

[Homyrrh]

So you are saying that best and most experienced are synonymous?
I am in no way equating the two. Rather, just mentioning that they're very significant detriments to any consideration of Obama as the best candidate. But we digress.

[MadsenOMC]

Sure Obama isn't perfect, but I prefer him to Clinton, and I'd vote for a canine before I'd cast a ballot for McBush.

[Homyrrh]

Sure Obama isn't perfect, but I prefer him to Clinton, and I'd vote for a canine before I'd cast a ballot for McBush.
Out of all honesty, I'm entirely perplexd by the McBush remarks. Why do you makes these? Truthfully, I'm only curious, but I'd like to at least hear your rationale.

[MadsenOMC]

I say that because politically the two are extremely similar. I've gone into detail about this in another thread.

We already know that McCain and Bush see eye-to-eye on Iraq and U.S. foreign policy. In addition, McCain just gave a speech about appointing judges similar to the ones Bush has appointed. Also, his health care plan is similar to Bush's. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...s/5741071.html

Finally, this is from a recent MSNBC story about the similarities between Bush & McCain:

Besides the war, McCain agrees broadly with Bush and other conservatives on:

* Abortion. McCain promises to appoint judges who, in the mold of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, are likely to limit the reach of the Roe v. Wade decision that legalized abortion. McCain's record is not spotless on abortion: He said once, in 1999, that Roe v. Wade should not be overturned. But that amounted to a blip in an otherwise unbroken record of opposing abortion rights for women.

"I am pro-life and an advocate for the rights of man everywhere in the world," McCain told the Conservative Political Action Conference in February. "Because to be denied liberty is an offense to nature and nature's Creator."

* Gay rights. McCain opposes gay marriage. True, he does not support a federal ban on gay marriage on grounds the issue traditionally has been decided by states. But McCain worked to ban gay marriage in Arizona. He also supports the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, and he opposed legislation to protect gay people from job discrimination or hate crimes.

"I'm proud to have led an effort in my home state to change our state constitution and to protect the sanctity of marriage as between a man and woman," he told CNN in March. "I will continue to advocate for those fundamental principals of our party and our faith."

* Gun control. McCain voted against a ban on assault-style weapons and for shielding gun-makers and dealers from civil suits. He did vote in favor of requiring background checks at gun shows, but in general he sides with the National Rifle Association in favor of gun rights.

Here is the whole story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24107084/

I am not saying that the two agree on everything, but with few exceptions they are very similar. That is why, in a recent poll, Bush was a bigger problem for McCain than Wright was for Obama, because people associate the current president with the Republican nominee and see little difference between them. And rightfully so.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...01/966433.aspx

From the link above:

"on the biggest issues out there -- Iraq, health care, economic policy (especially taxes) -- there is very little room between McCain and the president"

[Homyrrh]

Alright.

But your McBush seems to just be an embodiment of the conventional Republican platform. IF that's what you meant, that's fine, but then I misunderstood.

[MadsenOMC]

I mean that politically the two are very similar, as my last post proves.

[Homyrrh]

I understand, but you just proved they're both Republicans. Gay marriage? Abortion? Gun control?

[MadsenOMC]

I understand, but you just proved they're both Republicans. Gay marriage? Abortion? Gun control?

What's your point here? That every Republican politician is exactly the same?

[QUENTIN]

I understand, but you just proved they're both Republicans. Gay marriage? Abortion? Gun control?

And the War in Iraq, the "War on Terror", and foreign policy in general.

Oh, and the economy and taxes. McCain is a much brighter, more respectable man than Bush who will nonetheless continue the Bush presidency for another 4 years if elected.

[Homyrrh]

What's your point here? That every Republican politician is exactly the same?
Not in the least. I am just making note that your argument is mildy flawed, as those three issues alone, and taken those stands on them, could constitute a legitimate Republican. I understand and anknowledge that the prospect of a McCain presidency may just be a general succesion of Bush's, as you had said, BUT I just feel the post you made didn't wholly justify it.
And the War in Iraq, the "War on Terror", and foreign policy in general.

Oh, and the economy and taxes. McCain is a much brighter, more respectable man than Bush who will nonetheless continue the Bush presidency for another 4 years if elected.

-Yes, though McCain, as per the NY Times front page (www.nytimes.com), has today stated his intent to have troops withdrawn from Iraq by 2013, obviously putting the nation at a rough halfway point (literally and figuratively).

-McCain, on the vast whole, is most definitely a respectable man (and, dually noted, more intelligent than the current president), which honestly isn't quite saying enough. He's experienced. He's qualified. He's a veteran to show all veterans. But...is he senile?

[MadsenOMC]

Not in the least. I am just making note that your argument is mildy flawed, as those three issues alone, and taken those stands on them, could constitute a legitimate Republican. I understand and anknowledge that the prospect of a McCain presidency may just be a general succesion of Bush's, as you had said, BUT I just feel the post you made didn't wholly justify it.

Actually, this is flawed, because I did not limit it to those three issues. If I had, then maybe you'd have a point here. But I did not. You selected those three issues and left out the rest. Taken in its entirety, looking at all the issues, my post justifies it.

[Homyrrh]

Well, alright, I stand not defeated, but in stalemate. I interpreted, as did you. Objectively, you may be entirely correct about their political (and only) similarities, but I understood a, again, midly flawed justification. Even again, I understand and acknowledge the point itself.