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Homyrrh
05-21-2008, 09:30 AM
(from The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/21/us/politics/21elect.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin))
May 21, 2008
Obama Declares Bid Is ‘Within Reach’
By ADAM NAGOURNEY and JEFF ZELENY
Senator Barack Obama took a big step toward becoming the Democratic presidential nominee on Tuesday, amassing enough additional delegates to claim an all but insurmountable advantage in his race against Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

While Mrs. Clinton’s campaign continued to make a case that she could prevail, Mr. Obama seized on the results from Democratic contests in Kentucky and Oregon to move into a new phase of the campaign in which he will face different challenges. Those include bringing disaffected Clinton supporters into his camp; winning over elements of the Democratic coalition like working-class whites, Hispanics and Jews; and fending off attacks from Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, especially on national security.

Mr. Obama won easily in Oregon. But his obstacles were underlined by a lopsided defeat in Kentucky, where just half of the Democratic voters said in exit polls that they would back him in the general election this fall.

Under the rules used by Democrats, the split decision was enough for Mr. Obama to secure a majority of the delegates up for grabs in primaries and caucuses. His campaign has portrayed success in winning those pledged delegates as the most important yardstick for judging the will of Democratic voters, and has encouraged superdelegates — elected officials and party leaders who have an automatic vote at the convention — to fall in line accordingly.

“We have returned to Iowa with a majority of delegates elected by the American people, and you have put us within reach of the Democratic nomination for president of the United States of America,” Mr. Obama said in an address on Tuesday night, standing in front of a moonlit Capitol in Des Moines.

Even as Mr. Obama moved closer to making history as the first black presidential nominee, he stopped short of declaring victory in the Democratic race, part of a carefully calibrated effort in the remaining weeks of the contest to avoid appearing disrespectful to Mrs. Clinton and alienating her supporters. Instead, he offered lavish praise for his rival over 16 months.

“Senator Clinton has shattered myths and broken barriers and changed the America in which my daughters and your daughters will come of age, and for that we are grateful to her,” Mr. Obama said.

Mrs. Clinton, declaring victory in Kentucky, made clear that she had no intention of stepping aside before the Democratic voting ends on June 3. “This is one of the closest races for a party’s nomination in modern history,” she said. “We are winning the popular vote, and I am more determined than ever to see that every vote is cast and every ballot is counted.”

Going into Tuesday, Mr. Obama had 1,915 of the 2,026 pledged delegates and superdelegates needed to claim the nomination, according to a count and projection by The New York Times. His campaign estimated that if he simply held his own in the remaining contests, he would need only 25 more votes from superdelegates. There are 221 undeclared superdelegates left; Mr. Obama has been rolling out endorsements on a daily basis.

But even as he moved closer to winning the intensely fought nominating contest with Mrs. Clinton — a battle suffused with history and the tension inherent in a campaign defined in part by race and gender — Mr. Obama was preparing to deal with a series of challenges in the weeks ahead.

He was planning a vigorous schedule of travel to general election states and a voter registration drive focusing on black voters to offset any losses among whites. Aides said he was considering delivering another speech to deal with damage in the primary because of attacks on his relationship with his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., as well as on his patriotism.

“We know we have our work cut out for us,” said Steve Hildebrand, a deputy campaign manager for Mr. Obama. “But we are up to the task.”

At the same time, Mr. Obama’s aides said they were not concerned with exit polls showing that he had hemorrhaged white working-class voters to Mrs. Clinton in Kentucky, mirroring similar findings in Indiana, Pennsylvania and Ohio. Many Clinton voters in Kentucky said they would stay home or vote for Mr. McCain in the fall. Two in 10 Democratic voters in Kentucky said race was a factor in their choice, and they overwhelmingly voted for Mrs. Clinton.

“You can’t look at it that way,” said David Plouffe, Mr. Obama’s campaign manager. “There’s enough evidence now in public polls that in a general election against McCain, in the states that will determine the presidency, her supporters are coming our way. I think this is an issue that in 30 or 60 days we will not be talking about.”

Mr. Obama marked this moment with a return to Iowa, the state that kicked off his campaign with a big win on Jan. 3, He used his stage to portray Mr. McCain as running for a third term for President Bush, an argument that Mr. Obama’s aides said would be a central point of attack as he sought to move from the primary into the general election.

The Republican primary campaign, Mr. Obama said, “was a contest to see which candidate could out-Bush the other, and that is the contest John McCain won.”

Mr. Obama’s aides said they were increasingly concerned that the long fight with Mrs. Clinton had given Mr. McCain a free ride in critical general election states like Iowa.

Mr. Obama is scheduled to spend Wednesday through Friday in Florida, focusing on the corridor between Tampa and Orlando, a region bustling with swing voters. The trip starts an effort to repair wounds caused by the deadlock over recognizing the Florida primary and seating the state’s delegates.

Next week, Mr. Obama heads to Colorado, a state he believes Democrats can win, and other Western states.

Over the next month, he plans trips to the traditional general election battlegrounds of Michigan, Missouri, Pennsylvania and Ohio, even as he continues to compete in the three remaining Democratic contests in Puerto Rico, Montana and South Dakota.

The rally in downtown Des Moines offered evidence of steps Mr. Obama was taking to try to unite the party. Thousands of telephone and e-mail invitations went out across Iowa — where Mr. McCain is already running television commercials — to party activists and independent voters, including many who backed other candidates this year.

David Axelrod, the chief strategist for Mr. Obama, said he was not worried about the significant share of Clinton supporters who said they would be disappointed if Mr. Obama became the nominee. He predicted a “natural coalescence” among Democrats after the nominating battle concluded because of a concern over the war, the economy and the direction of the country.

“We’re going to reach out and try to unify this party,” Mr. Axelrod said in an interview on Tuesday. “It will happen naturally based on a commonality of interests.”

Since 1972, when modern exit polls first began, no Democratic presidential candidate has won a majority of white voters. The closest division was in 1992, a three-way contest when 39 percent of whites voted for Bill Clinton and 40 percent voted for the first President Bush. In 2004, President Bush defeated John Kerry among whites by 58 percent to 41 percent.

While Mr. Obama has struggled with Mrs. Clinton to win the support of Hispanic voters — something Mr. McCain’s campaign has taken note of in focusing on states like Colorado and New Mexico — a Gallup tracking poll released on Tuesday, taken Friday to Sunday, showed Mr. Obama leading Mrs. Clinton 55 percent to 39 percent among all Democratic voters. Among Hispanic voters, the race is tighter, with Mr. Obama receiving 51 percent to Mrs. Clinton’s 44 percent.

Even as Mr. Obama’s aides disputed the notion that the exit polls raised red flags about his merits as a general election candidate, they acknowledged they would have to deal with that perception among critical party leaders who might be worried about the fall — in particular, contributors and supporters of Mrs. Clinton. To offset the voters who may rule out supporting Mr. Obama, because of his race or other reasons, the campaign is working to register new voters. In Georgia, for example, 600,000 black residents are eligible to vote but are not registered. In Virginia, there are 200,000 black residents not registered to vote.

But most immediately, Mr. Obama faces the task of bringing the party back together, and finding the right tone to strike in being deferential to Mrs. Clinton — making concessions that might make his opponent and her supporters happy in the end — without appearing to be ceding authority to his rival.

Several Democrats said the model he needed to avoid was the 1980 primary fight between President Jimmy Carter and Senator Edward M. Kennedy, with its awkward spectacle at the nominating convention that made the party look divided and Mr. Carter seem suppliant.

Homyrrh
05-21-2008, 09:33 AM
It's nearly scoffable he says "within reach". He should've smacked-a-hoe long ago and been done with it...:rolleyes:

electriclite
05-21-2008, 10:21 AM
Didn't Florida's votes suddenly come back into play? At least that's what I quickly glanced off a subway rider's paper today...


The Daily Show is so on in its description of this election. It is a seemingly neverending Bataan death march! I think by the November people will be too emotionally exhausted to give a shit.

"What? Obama ran over an old lady while driving drunk to sell weed at an elementary school when he was 16? .... AH FUCK, forget it, I'm still votting for him! I am not gonna think about this goddamn election anymore! Just let me vote and get this over with!!! LET ME MOVE ON WITH MY LIFE!"

Gordon
05-21-2008, 02:54 PM
She's obviously waiting until early June to drop out.

electriclite
05-21-2008, 03:06 PM
She's obviously waiting until early June to drop out.
Much to everyone's chagrin.

Homyrrh
05-21-2008, 03:26 PM
She's obviously waiting until early June to drop out.
And she get's federal funding for this? Aren't those my tax dollars?

electriclite
05-21-2008, 03:44 PM
And she get's federal funding for this? Aren't those my tax dollars?
Not yet.

Brando @$$ Fat
05-21-2008, 04:18 PM
I'm in the Bill Maher camp on this one. As long as she's getting votes, even if they're in racist West Virginia, she has every right to go on. Her chances of winning are small, but she's won a lot of delegates. She's in too deep to quit. Her financial debts might force her out, but the Clintons are loaded so I doubt this will happen.

This race can't get any more tedious than it already is. What difference does it make if the race goes on for another couple of weeks?

MadsenOMC
05-21-2008, 04:23 PM
I'm in the Bill Maher camp on this one. As long as she's getting votes, even if they're in racist West Virginia, she has every right to go on. Her chances of winning are small, but she's won a lot of delegates. She's in too deep to quit. Her financial debts might force her out, but the Clintons are loaded so I doubt this will happen.

This race can't get any more tedious than it already is. What difference does it make if the race goes on for another couple of weeks?

I'm an Obama supporter, but I think you're right. Isn't this democracy at work? If it really does hurt the party so much that it costs them the election, then maybe it's the party's fault, not any one candidate.

Homyrrh
05-21-2008, 04:54 PM
How'd the Clintons bank?

notchreturns
05-21-2008, 06:26 PM
Her campaign is about 20 million in debt.

someguy
05-21-2008, 07:49 PM
I think that Clinton staying in will hurt the party's chances of winning because she's just causing as much of a divide as the Republicans with McCain. If she keeps attacking Obama the Republicans aren't going to need any effort once the smearing begins.

Homyrrh
05-21-2008, 09:39 PM
Her campaign is about 20 million in debt.
I meant how did the Clintons make their millions (?). She's loaned the campaign mucho money.

SpoonMan999
05-22-2008, 12:16 PM
I just got access to this forum today so sorry if I revive any discussions that were over with.

I think that Clinton staying in will hurt the party's chances of winning because she's just causing as much of a divide as the Republicans with McCain. If she keeps attacking Obama the Republicans aren't going to need any effort once the smearing begins.

Being a Republican I can tell you we're not exactly divided over McCain. Many of us are disapointed but for the most part we're all on the same page that McCain is the way we're gonna go.

The Democrats really need to worry about what's happening to their party right now with this race. I was listening to Sean Hannity yesterday on the way home from work and Joe Lieberman called in and said he was going to support McCain! A man who was once the Democratic nominee's running mate. And to top it off there is a huge percent of Hillary supporters who claim if Obama wins the nomination they will either vote for McCain or maybe not vote at all. This is why Obama is so focused on getting non-voters on his side and voting.

Now, before you guys try to tear me apart, being one of the few Republicans on sites like this it happens to me a lot, I'm not an ultra conservative I'm actually fairly moderate and do tend to listen to both arguements and weigh my choices. I just usually end up more on the Republican line of thinking.

On that note I have read Obama's book, what was it "The Audacity of Hope" or something like that? And I think the guy is just fake and I can't trust him as far as I can throw him.

Firstly, the things his old "spiritual advisor" likes to say does say something about the man who took his advice for 20+ years.

Secondly, anyone who will throw his wife out into the fray and let her say all sorts of colorful things like, "This is the first time in my adult life I can say I'm proud to be an American," and then get angry when people criticize it and comment on it is just stupid. I mean, if you're wife is going to be out there speaking in your name and helping you campaign she is fair game. If you don't like it you need to write a script for her and have her read your words exactly, or not have her speak at all.

Thirdly, "Hi, I have no experience with dealing with foreign nations but I do have experience leading as I was the director of the community center, " he thinks he can "talk" countries like Iran and Israel into playing nice with eachother. Israel plans on stopping Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons and they know that having a "chat" isn't going to do the job, we need someone on the same page.

That's all for now.

Brando @$$ Fat
05-22-2008, 01:25 PM
I just got access to this forum today so sorry if I revive any discussions that were over with.



Being a Republican I can tell you we're not exactly divided over McCain. Many of us are disapointed but for the most part we're all on the same page that McCain is the way we're gonna go.

The Democrats really need to worry about what's happening to their party right now with this race. I was listening to Sean Hannity yesterday on the way home from work and Joe Lieberman called in and said he was going to support McCain! A man who was once the Democratic nominee's running mate. And to top it off there is a huge percent of Hillary supporters who claim if Obama wins the nomination they will either vote for McCain or maybe not vote at all. This is why Obama is so focused on getting non-voters on his side and voting.

Now, before you guys try to tear me apart, being one of the few Republicans on sites like this it happens to me a lot, I'm not an ultra conservative I'm actually fairly moderate and do tend to listen to both arguements and weigh my choices. I just usually end up more on the Republican line of thinking.

On that note I have read Obama's book, what was it "The Audacity of Hope" or something like that? And I think the guy is just fake and I can't trust him as far as I can throw him.

Firstly, the things his old "spiritual advisor" likes to say does say something about the man who took his advice for 20+ years.

Secondly, anyone who will throw his wife out into the fray and let her say all sorts of colorful things like, "This is the first time in my adult life I can say I'm proud to be an American," and then get angry when people criticize it and comment on it is just stupid. I mean, if you're wife is going to be out there speaking in your name and helping you campaign she is fair game. If you don't like it you need to write a script for her and have her read your words exactly, or not have her speak at all.

Thirdly, "Hi, I have no experience with dealing with foreign nations but I do have experience leading as I was the director of the community center, " he thinks he can "talk" countries like Iran and Israel into playing nice with eachother. Israel plans on stopping Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons and they know that having a "chat" isn't going to do the job, we need someone on the same page.

That's all for now.

I won't tear you apart, but I will try to tear your argument apart.

1. I agree that Reverend Wright is a dick and Obama probably should've thrown him under the bus long ago, but culturally this is nothing new. In Chicago, there are a lot of racially centered megachurches with pastors that have extreme views. I actually read about some of the other preachers in the area and some of them make Wright seem like a moderate. Plus, to be fair to Wright, we haven't seen any of his other sermons. We don't know if his tirades are a regular thing or not. Besides, the ministers that have endorsed and joined the McCain camp are more disturbing individuals. They're not his spiritual advisors, but they are pretty insane human beings. Search John Hagee on Google and prepare to read about a dangerously insane man.

2. I don't know what you mean by Obama's wife being scripted, but when you think about what she said, it isn't that awful. During Mrs. Obama's adulthood we have had three wars (not including all the secret wars in South America), an energy crisis, stagflation, the Iranian hostage ordeal, the Iran-Contra scandal, a presidential impeachment, two of the closest and most polarizing elections in history, an economic recession, an entire city destroyed by a natural disaster, etc etc etc. The fall of the Berlin Wall and the pride that followed 9/11 are probably the only two moments when most Americans were unified in their pride.

3. As of this moment, Obama has the same amount of experience Lincoln did when he entered the White House. Being a senator, he already has more foreign policy experience than our last two presidents, who were governors before they became presidents.

SpoonMan999
05-22-2008, 01:36 PM
I won't tear you apart, but I will try to tear your argument apart.

1. I agree that Reverend Wright is a dick and Obama probably should've thrown him under the bus long ago, but culturally this is nothing new. In Chicago, there are a lot of racially centered megachurches with pastors that have extreme views. I actually read about some of the other preachers in the area and some of them make Wright seem like a moderate. Plus, to be fair to Wright, we haven't seen any of his other sermons. We don't know if his tirades are a regular thing or not. Besides, the ministers that have endorsed and joined the McCain camp are more disturbing individuals. They're not his spiritual advisors, but they are pretty insane human beings. Search John Hagee on Google and prepare to read about a dangerously insane man.

2. I don't know what you mean by Obama's wife being scripted, but when you think about what she said, it isn't that awful. During Mrs. Obama's adulthood we have had three wars (not including all the secret wars in South America), an energy crisis, stagflation, the Iranian hostage ordeal, the Iran-Contra scandal, a presidential impeachment, two of the closest and most polarizing elections in history, an economic recession, an entire city destroyed by a natural disaster, etc etc etc. The fall of the Berlin Wall and the pride that followed 9/11 are probably the only two moments when most Americans were unified in their pride.

3. As of this moment, Obama has the same amount of experience Lincoln did when he entered the White House. Being a senator, he already has more foreign policy experience than our last two presidents, who were governors before they became presidents.

1. About Wright, not just the racist comments the man said he believes we deserved 9/11 and to quote him, "Not God bless America...Goddamn America!" Obama should have left that church when Oprah did.

2.I don't mean she is scripted I mean if he doesn't want them attacking what she says then he should probably control what she says or not let her speak in public. If she's out there making comments...she's going to be part of the debates.

3. Lincoln was president while our country was still young, so please don't use that argument I'm sick of hearing it. And to compare Obama, or any president after FDR, to Licoln is just rediculous. And our last two presidents had been in the game longer than Obama, or so I think correct me if I'm wrong, and had more leadership experience. Not to mention, both had been businessmen, though Bush not a successful one.

electriclite
05-22-2008, 02:29 PM
1. About Wright, not just the racist comments the man said he believes we deserved 9/11 and to quote him, "Not God bless America...Goddamn America!" Obama should have left that church when Oprah did.

2.I don't mean she is scripted I mean if he doesn't want them attacking what she says then he should probably control what she says or not let her speak in public. If she's out there making comments...she's going to be part of the debates.

3. Lincoln was president while our country was still young, so please don't use that argument I'm sick of hearing it. And to compare Obama, or any president after FDR, to Licoln is just rediculous. And our last two presidents had been in the game longer than Obama, or so I think correct me if I'm wrong, and had more leadership experience. Not to mention, both had been businessmen, though Bush not a successful one.


I dunno exactly what its like to be part of a church where you take your family. I would imagine it would be a bit tougher to extricate yourself from it that arbitrarily.


Agreed on Mrs. Obama. Her speeches seem to contradict what her husband has been trying to get across to the American people. He's talking about hope and she seems to be reading the off of the Bizarro world version of her husband's message.

Its funny how you mentioned early that there are Hillary supporters who say they will vote for McCain if Obama gets the nomination. Yet I know people who say they will vote for McCain if HILLARY gets the nod.

Dems are in a sore spot either way you slice it.


Hillary proves George Carlin's point (and something I posted a while back as well) about Americans voting for folks who are full of shit. Hillary is full of shit, but its pretty much right out there. She can't hide it. And we like that. We can see'm coming, no surprise disappointments.

With Obama, his shit is hidden pretty well, and we don't respond well to that. I mean lets face it, we're so jaded as a society we consider people who are too good to be true, to be just that.... and time again we're usually proven right. However, its not always true, 100% of the time..... just 95-99% of the time.

SpoonMan999
05-22-2008, 02:34 PM
I dunno exactly what its like to be part of a church where you take your family. I would imagine it would be a bit tougher to extricate yourself from it that arbitrarily.


Agreed on Mrs. Obama. Her speeches seem to contradict what her husband has been trying to get across to the American people. He's talking about hope and she seems to be reading the off of the Bizarro world version of her husband's message.

Its funny how you mentioned early that there are Hillary supporters who say they will vote for McCain if Obama gets the nomination. Yet I know people who say they will vote for McCain if HILLARY gets the nod.

Dems are in a sore spot either way you slice it.


Hillary proves George Carlin's point (and something I posted a while back as well) about Americans voting for folks who are full of shit. Hillary is full of shit, but its pretty much right out there. She can't hide it. And we like that. We can see'm coming, no surprise disappointments.

With Obama, his shit is hidden pretty well, and we don't respond well to that. I mean lets face it, we're so jaded as a society we consider people who are too good to be true, to be just that.... and time again we're usually proven right. However, its not always true, 100% of the time..... just 95-99% of the time.

It's very easy to leave a church when they preach something you're against. It'd be like me, an agnostic, walking into church and confessing and donating and doing all those churchy things...when in fact I believe in none of that.

Brando @$$ Fat
05-22-2008, 02:52 PM
3. Lincoln was president while our country was still young, so please don't use that argument I'm sick of hearing it. And to compare Obama, or any president after FDR, to Licoln is just rediculous. And our last two presidents had been in the game longer than Obama, or so I think correct me if I'm wrong, and had more leadership experience. Not to mention, both had been businessmen, though Bush not a successful one.

I've never heard this argument used until I just used it. I wasn't even comparing him to Lincoln, I was saying that inexperienced people have done great things in trying times. A comparison would be if you compared Obama the man to Lincoln, not the number of years he served in Illinois government. Plus, our last two presidents had virtually no foreign policy experience. Zero. Experience does not always equal results, either. The fact that this country is in a recession shows just that.

I think experience is important because it allows us to invest more faith in the politician, but it is not the most essential characteristic. In the end, the question should be "can this person get the job done?"

Homyrrh
05-22-2008, 02:57 PM
I've never heard this argument used until I just used it. I wasn't even comparing him to Lincoln, I was saying that inexperienced people have done great things in trying times. A comparison would be if you compared Obama the man to Lincoln, not the number of years he served in Illinois government. Plus, our last two presidents had virtually no foreign policy experience. Zero. Experience does not always equal results, either. The fact that this country is in a recession shows just that.

I think experience is important because it allows us to invest more faith in the politician, but it is not the most essential characteristic. In the end, the question should be "can this person get the job done?"
Funny thing is, McCain and Clinton are both immensely weathered and experienced.

SpoonMan999
05-22-2008, 03:05 PM
I've never heard this argument used until I just used it. I wasn't even comparing him to Lincoln, I was saying that inexperienced people have done great things in trying times. A comparison would be if you compared Obama the man to Lincoln, not the number of years he served in Illinois government. Plus, our last two presidents had virtually no foreign policy experience. Zero. Experience does not always equal results, either. The fact that this country is in a recession shows just that.

I think experience is important because it allows us to invest more faith in the politician, but it is not the most essential characteristic. In the end, the question should be "can this person get the job done?"

I hear that comparison a lot...in fact just yesterday a very hardcore liberal tried to pull it on Hannity. The fact is that Obama isn't half the man that Lincoln was. And I'm not saying he wont be able to handle any foreign issues I'm saying without any experience he thinks he can do what nobody before has.

Homyrrh
05-22-2008, 03:08 PM
I hear that comparison a lot...in fact just yesterday a very hardcore liberal tried to pull it on Hannity. The fact is that Obama isn't half the man that Lincoln was. And I'm not saying he wont be able to handle any foreign issues I'm saying without any experience he thinks he can do what nobody before has.
And that's what the Lincoln-Obama "comparison" is reduced to; while yes, both of them were inexperienced heading in, is Obama really the "Honest Abe" that Lincoln was?

SpoonMan999
05-22-2008, 03:12 PM
I hear many suggesting he may be at Lincoln's level so I apologize for misinterpreting.

jolanar
05-22-2008, 03:30 PM
3. As of this moment, Obama has the same amount of experience Lincoln did when he entered the White House. Being a senator, he already has more foreign policy experience than our last two presidents, who were governors before they became presidents.

Lincoln was never a Senator. So you could say Obama has more experience than Lincoln did. :cool:

And also you really just can't compare 1860 politics to this day and age. Lincoln did no public speaking, the party basically ran him for president. They thought they could control him like a puppet because he had no experience. It really is just an entirely different situation. The democrats of today are damn near evenly divided. The first republican had the entire party behind him.

electriclite
05-22-2008, 05:18 PM
It's very easy to leave a church when they preach something you're against. It'd be like me, an agnostic, walking into church and confessing and donating and doing all those churchy things...when in fact I believe in none of that.


Ummm, no its not the same.

Both Wright and Obama believe unequivocally that there is a God. Obama just disagrees with one of the preachers.

Now I've moved a round a bit but I've had at least 2 churches that I attended for more than 5 years in 2 places. The same preacher isn't available for every mass, even consecutive Sunday Masses. So its not like he was getting the Wright treatment even once a week sometimes. Heck, the Obamas could've been skipping/missing most/some of his masses and attending ones lead by a different priest.

But the fact that Obama doesn't bitch and moan and make "white people do this/black people do that" jokes, that stopped being funny around 1993, I think shows he hasn't taken too much of the reverend to heart.

Now, Mrs. Obama on the other hand, might be another story, especially when you consider that sometimes its the mom taking the kids to church sans dad.She talks like she was getting too many servings of the reverend's sermons.

SpoonMan999
05-22-2008, 06:29 PM
Ummm, no its not the same.

Both Wright and Obama believe unequivocally that there is a God. Obama just disagrees with one of the preachers.

Now I've moved a round a bit but I've had at least 2 churches that I attended for more than 5 years in 2 places. The same preacher isn't available for every mass, even consecutive Sunday Masses. So its not like he was getting the Wright treatment even once a week sometimes. Heck, the Obamas could've been skipping/missing most/some of his masses and attending ones lead by a different priest.

But the fact that Obama doesn't bitch and moan and make "white people do this/black people do that" jokes, that stopped being funny around 1993, I think shows he hasn't taken too much of the reverend to heart.

Now, Mrs. Obama on the other hand, might be another story, especially when you consider that sometimes its the mom taking the kids to church sans dad.She talks like she was getting too many servings of the reverend's sermons.

Wright was his personal "spiritual advisor" and friend for over 20 years.

Criminal Rock
05-22-2008, 07:27 PM
I'm very good friends with a heroin addict... I guess that makes me one to.:rolleyes:

SpoonMan999
05-22-2008, 07:40 PM
Is he an advisor? Does nobody catch it when I say advisor? I think I've said it at least twice...

Jon Lyrik
05-22-2008, 09:16 PM
Hasn't someone dug up shit on McCain's invisible-man medium?

Brando @$$ Fat
05-22-2008, 11:48 PM
To follow up on what I said about McCain and Hagee...

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20080522/McCain.Pastor/

Good for him. Showing some balls. I hope this will be the election where all whacko ministers are publicly denouced by both candidates.

SpoonMan999
05-23-2008, 11:41 AM
McCain may actually lose a lot of votes for denouncing them considering Hagee has a HUGE following. But I'm glad he's showing back bone...unlike the candidate I wanted to see go all the way.