Heavy, Long-Term Marijuana Use Shrinks Brain Parts

[Brando @$$ Fat]

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-science/20080602/SCIENCE-MARIJUANA-BRAIN-DC/


Heavy marijuana use shrinks brain parts: study

By Will Dunham, Reuters
6 hours ago

WASHINGTON — Long-term heavy use of marijuana may cause two important brain structures to shrink, Australian researchers said on Monday.

Brain scans showed the hippocampus and amygdala were smaller in men who were heavy marijuana users compared to nonusers, the researchers said. The men had smoked at least five marijuana cigarettes daily for on average 20 years.

The hippocampus regulates memory and emotion, while the amygdala plays a critical role in fear and aggression.

The study, published in the American Medical Association's journal Archives of General Psychiatry, also found the heavy cannabis users earned lower scores than the nonusers in a verbal learning task -- trying to recall a list of 15 words.

The marijuana users were more likely to exhibit mild signs of psychotic disorders, but not enough to be formally diagnosed with any such disorder, the researchers said.

"These findings challenge the widespread perception of cannabis as having limited or no harmful effects on (the) brain and behavior," said Murat Yucel of ORYGEN Research Centre and the University of Melbourne, who led the study.

"Like with most things, some people will experience greater problems associated with cannabis use than others," Yucel said in an e-mail. "Our findings suggest that everyone is vulnerable to potential changes in the brain, some memory problems and psychiatric symptoms if they use heavily enough and for long enough."

Among the 15 heavy marijuana users in the study, the hippocampus volume was 12 percent less and the amygdala volume was 7 percent less than in 16 men who were not marijuana users, the researchers said.

The researchers acknowledged that the study did not prove it was the marijuana and not some other factor that triggered these brain differences. But Yucel said the findings certainly suggested marijuana was the cause.

"STONED" FOR 20 YEARS

While about half of the marijuana users reported experiencing some form of paranoia and social withdrawal, only one of the nonusers reported such symptoms, Yucel said.

The heavy marijuana users, average age 40, said they had used other illicit drugs less than 10 times, the researchers said.

A U.S. group supporting legal sales and regulation of marijuana took issue with the findings, particularly because they were based on men who were such heavy, long-term users.

"These were people who were essentially stoned all day every day for 20 years," Marijuana Policy Project spokesman Bruce Mirken said by e-mail. "This study says nothing about moderate or occasional users, who are the vast majority -- and the (study) even acknowledges this."

"The documented damage caused by comparably heavy use of alcohol or tobacco is just off-the-charts more serious, and you don't need high-tech scans to find it," Mirken added.

Yucel said the researchers have begun new research on the effects of both short-term and long-term and moderate and heavy use of marijuana.
________________________________

M'kay?

[Vong]

Everything in moderation. Too much of something is bound to have a negative effect on the body.

[Cop No. 633]

That's very true. At least it beats liver cirrhosis and lung cancer. :)

[MadsenOMC]

Everything in moderation. Too much of something is bound to have a negative effect on the body.

This is true. My best friend of 15 years went through a period where smoking pot was the first thing he did when he got up in the morning and the last thing he did before going to sleep (not to mention the two or three times during the day). Every single day. It changed him quickly and drastically. Now he's back to smoking it maybe once or twice a month and he's back to his old self.

[Homyrrh]

Yeah, never was one for legalizing marijuana. Doesn't help anyone. Those who already smoke can get it cheaper without the inevitable tax and it's already easier to get for most people than even some other things (i.e.- minors purchasing tobacco).

Not sure this was the most enlightening study, but it serves a noble purpose.

[MadsenOMC]

I am all for legalizing marijuana. It's far less harmful than alcohol.

[Homyrrh]

I am all for legalizing marijuana. It's far less harmful than alcohol.
Yeah, that'd be ideal, but what happened last time alocohol was, well, Prohibited?

Alcohol wouldn't ever be outlawed again, so why legalize something else? I don't have many friends that would forsake the bottle for the bong.

[MadsenOMC]

I don't think alcohol should be illegal. I just think America needs to reexamine its attitude and tolerance towards alcohol.

Why not legalize marijuana? What is the downside of that?

[Homyrrh]

I have problems with alcohol, especially personally. Aside from that, I think it's almsot tragic that nearly ALL teens utilize alcohol in some form as the universal, default form of entertainment. It could almost be said that we are an alcoholic country. THe drinking age is irrelevant; which teenage really cares? The potential for harm as a product of impaired judgment in boundless.

We shouldn't legalize marijuana because it's just another substance that's already used illegally that would not be beneficial to society as a whole. It's meaningless harmless to me, as I don't smoke, but people still do it and will do it despite it's status as legal or not.

Although legalizing it, and gravely raising the price via taxes, might help deter some less discerning smokers.

[MadsenOMC]

We agree about alcohol, but your reasons for not legalizing marijuana are pretty much my reasons for why we should.

[Moviefan1234]

I also think marijuana should be legalized. First off, it's on the same level as alcohol. Too much of it isn't good for your health at all, but in moderation there's no problems with it. Secondly, if the federal government made it legal and taxed the shit out of it, that could do wonders for our national debt, health care system, roadway construction, etc. It's in our nation's best interest to make it legal.

[Cop No. 633]

Actually, if it was made legal, than why would anybody buy gov't sanctioned weed if people could grow it on their own? If anything, I think you'd see a growth in horticulture. I know I would. It's more cost efficient and you know what you put into the plant. A lot of stuff I've seen has hormone additives and pesticides which you're smoking. It's about going the all natural way for me.

As for the not smoking every day, you shouldn't do that either. I doubt that if pot was made legal that there would be this big "pot epidemic." It's already the most used illegal drug and it hasn't killed anybody from using it. The same people who have done it in the past would finally lose the paranoia. And if new people want to try it, what's the harm in that? It never hurts to try new things that won't kill you on the first try or the fifteenth.

[Homyrrh]

I also think marijuana should be legalized. First off, it's on the same level as alcohol. Too much of it isn't good for your health at all, but in moderation there's no problems with it. Secondly, if the federal government made it legal and taxed the shit out of it, that could do wonders for our national debt, health care system, roadway construction, etc. It's in our nation's best interest to make it legal.
Valid point; hadn't considered that.

My logic, Madsen, is basically that we already have (very severe) alcohol problems, an unsung epidemic of sorts, so why add cannibis into the mix?

[MadsenOMC]

I do not think that we'd ever have marijuana problems like we do alcohol problems, even if it was legalized.

[fixedMind]

I see the human mind as almost like a plant itself. In that if you over stimulate a plants growth by feeding it to much, it slowly beings a process of withdrawl from life. If you feed your head to much, a very similar process happens. Though the complexities of the mind far outway those of a plant.
Not sure if that made any sense to you, but it does to me.

[Lindsey]

I also think marijuana should be legalized. First off, it's on the same level as alcohol. Too much of it isn't good for your health at all, but in moderation there's no problems with it. Secondly, if the federal government made it legal and taxed the shit out of it, that could do wonders for our national debt, health care system, roadway construction, etc. It's in our nation's best interest to make it legal.

Good call Moviefan! I completely agree. It's just too bad it will probably be years before they even think about legalizing it. The cops have better things to do then bust these people for marijuana.

Living in Eugene Oregon, we're known for the hippies, Ken Kesey, and of course... the bud. :cool: Everyday people are on those courthouse steps protesting the legalization. Then you have those small groups of people who are very anti drug, and only talk about the harmful facts. Well of course there's going to be two sides to the issue, but the haters just need to leave it be. Go worry about something else!

[someguy]

Hahaha, Lindsey decides to get involved in the politics forum once pot gets brought up :)

Too many people are stuck up about marijuana right now to make it fully legal but I think that it should be decriminalized at least. It's pretty bad that people are being locked up for a long time over pot.

[Lindsey]

Hahaha, Lindsey decides to get involved in the politics forum once pot gets brought up :)

Too many people are stuck up about marijuana right now to make it fully legal but I think that it should be decriminalized at least. It's pretty bad that people are being locked up for a long time over pot.

HAHA! Thanks for the good laugh someguy!

Well... the thread did catch my attention in the forum index. :p

[Brando @$$ Fat]

I wonder what would happen if, instead of five joints a day, you did five waterfall hits every day. I wouldn't be surprised if the brain itself just completely disappeared.

As for the weed debate, what people don't know could fill a book. From pure experience alone, weed is not a pacifying drug and alcohol is not a war-mongering fight drug. I actually got in a fight once on weed with one of my friends (although we had a good laugh about it no more than ten minutes later).

That said, I am of the firm belief that pot is one of those things that only certain individuals can do and maintain a sense of maturity and intellect. I hate it how people act like it's this tool for enlightenment, when it can just as easily be used as a tool for idiots to wallow further into the pools of stupidity (see How High for further explanation).

[MadsenOMC]

That said, I am of the firm belief that pot is one of those things that only certain individuals can do and maintain a sense of maturity and intellect. I hate it how people act like it's this tool for enlightenment, when it can just as easily be used as a tool for idiots to wallow further into the pools of stupidity (see How High for further explanation).

I completely agree with this. I watched my best friend waste away as he smoked pot more and more.

[Homyrrh]

That said, I am of the firm belief that pot is one of those things that only certain individuals can do and maintain a sense of maturity and intellect. I hate it how people act like it's this tool for enlightenment, when it can just as easily be used as a tool for idiots to wallow further into the pools of stupidity (see How High for further explanation).

Yes.

I wonder if certain drug-free policies would be affected were marijuana to be legalized, i.e.--private companies, FAFSA apps, etc. I can't even be around the stuff because of an ROTC committment.

But I think we may have all seen some very adverse affects of the drug; like MAdsen, I've had a friend or three consumed because of their immaturity and inability to handle themselves and/or their habit.

[SpoonMan999]

I'm for legalization, it would bring in so much money for the government to start taxing pot. Considering farmers are having harder and harder times these days adding Marijuana as a crop would increase their profits and definately open up more private business operations at home. Not to mention government regulation could almost elminate more harmful chemicals being put into pot.

[Vong]

As for the weed debate, what people don't know could fill a book. From pure experience alone, weed is not a pacifying drug and alcohol is not a war-mongering fight drug. I actually got in a fight once on weed with one of my friends (although we had a good laugh about it no more than ten minutes later).

That said, I am of the firm belief that pot is one of those things that only certain individuals can do and maintain a sense of maturity and intellect. I hate it how people act like it's this tool for enlightenment, when it can just as easily be used as a tool for idiots to wallow further into the pools of stupidity (see How High for further explanation).

Keep in mind dude that substances affect people differently. While weed might make you randomly violent as a drunken Irish-man, it does nothing like the sort for me. I'm as happy and mellow as a pig in shit every single time. You could tell me my girlfriend looks like Cher and I'd laugh and probably agree with you.

People take the drugs in whatever way their bodies handle it. I know someone who pukes every time he smokes one hit. And it's also just like how people are able to drink a shit load of drinks without being drunk, but you see someone drink one botle of beer and he/she is done for the night.

Although it isn't that strong of a determinant factor, how they are feeling before they smoke/drink also determines their status under the influence. If someone is angry or depressed and they feel like drinking their sorrows away, you'll can bet that they can get physical if properly motivated. However, not everyone is the same way. People who are angry or depressed and start drinking can also just break down into tears randomly and sob like a beaten red-headed step-child.

Tolerance levels, willpower, emotional status and, as you mentioned, maturity all play factors in what the outcome will be in using drugs.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Keep in mind dude that substances affect people differently. While weed might make you randomly violent as a drunken Irish-man, it does nothing like the sort for me. I'm as happy and mellow as a pig in shit every single time.

This was like one time a few years ago when my friend got all paranoid after I changed the music. It doesn't have that affect on me.

[The Heart Collector]

We shouldn't legalize marijuana because it's just another substance that's already used illegally that would not be beneficial to society as a whole.

... how about all the people that are thrown in jail for pot charges? it's fucking ridiculous.

[QUENTIN]

Yeah, a little over 20% of our current prison population is serving time for non-violent drug charges. About 60% of drug arrests are for marijuana. Aside from all the other benefits, overcrowding would be much less of an issue in prisons and P.O.'s wouldn't be stretched so thin that they can't look after everyone they're assigned.

[The Postmaster General]

Damn... By the time I read all the posts, I forgot what we were talking about.

[Homyrrh]

... how about all the people that are thrown in jail for pot charges? it's fucking ridiculous.
[Was this a response to my post?]

If I have a couple grams on my person, should I be incarcerated? Bah, waste of taxpaying money, legal time, police time, resources, etc. However, when Willie Nelson or Leon LEtt gets pulled over with 200+ POUNDS, it pays to cut the head off at the source to prevent having to deal with the petty possesors.

Of course, the VAST majority of pot users, or even low-level dealers (like your high school friends) hardly ever even push ounces, so I'm no sure why a solid fine and a note on record wouldn't be sufficient (like a traffic ticket, but a good bit heftier and with a lot more weight.
Yeah, a little over 20% of our current prison population is serving time for non-violent drug charges. About 60% of drug arrests are for marijuana. Aside from all the other benefits, overcrowding would be much less of an issue in prisons and P.O.'s wouldn't be stretched so thin that they can't look after everyone they're assigned.
A lot of my friends from back in boarding school were under the jurisdiction of the Maryland (or other regional state) DJS (i.e.- the state sent them to the school) and were obligated to meet certain criteria as set by their POs (actually most of them were serving a 12-18 month at the school for VOP- violation of probation).

I mention one friend who (claims he) was on probation after getting out of one 6-9 month detention. He was at a friend's house and answered the door (for the police or PO or something)sober, but was arrested because his friend was high. Ultimately, he got soem charge, was sent to a temporary placement in detention, then to boarding school for 12-18 (ended up spending 17 months there). Over those seventeen months, the state, based on my annual tuition adjustment, not only was his PO inconvenienced (it's a 2+ hour drive west from Baltimore), school staff time wasted, etc., but the state ended up paying over $90,000 for his time. There were, at any point in time at the school 15-30 state-sent students at the school...roughly $2,000,000/yr for this facility alone.

So ultimately, offenders need a very tangible consequence (like that which I mentioned above), but both posts are correct that it's a waste of government and official resources to process that many offenders.

[QUENTIN]

Why should there be a consequence? Who does getting high in the privacy of your own home possibly harm? It's totally irrational that marijuana is illegal, so why do you think people should even face having something on their record? Do you think kids shouldn't be elligible for financial aid if they've been caught with a dimebag?

[Homyrrh]

Why should there be a consequence? Who does getting high in the privacy of your own home possibly harm? It's totally irrational that marijuana is illegal, so why do you think people should even face having something on their record? Do you think kids shouldn't be elligible for financial aid if they've been caught with a dimebag?
Regardless of whatever morality is or isn't inherent of the law, it's still illegal. When people do things that are illegal, there has to be a consequence. As of now, since it is still illegal, this consequence should include something beneficial to the state, i.e.--fine, community service, record, etc., as opposed to costing the state resources, i.e.--prison time, intensive rehabilitation/courses, etc. All of this would of course be dependent on the degree of the offense.

[Vong]

Regardless of whatever morality is or isn't inherent of the law, it's still illegal. When people do things that are illegal, there has to be a consequence.

Laws should only be followed when the laws are just, legitimate, fair, and reasonable. The laws reflect the stability and functionality of the state. If the laws are flawed, then it proves the inherent wrongness of the government which made these laws. There is theoretical justification to overthrow a government if and when it becomes "wrong". But the peaceful way of proving a state's wrongdoing is through civil disobedience, which many pot-smokers happily participate in doing (ie. pot-marches, public displays, etc.)

Just because a law is law does not mean it has to be followed. If that were true, Martin Luther King Jr. would never have led the Civil Rights movement to end laws that forbid Black Americans to certain priviledges their white counter-parts enjoyed.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Laws should only be followed when the laws are just, legitimate, fair, and reasonable. The laws reflect the stability and functionality of the state. If the laws are flawed, then it proves the inherent wrongness of the government which made these laws. There is theoretical justification to overthrow a government if and when it becomes "wrong". But the peaceful way of proving a state's wrongdoing is through civil disobedience, which many pot-smokers happily participate in doing (ie. pot-marches, public displays, etc.)

Just because a law is law does not mean it has to be followed. If that were true, Martin Luther King Jr. would never have led the Civil Rights movement to end laws that forbid Black Americans to certain priviledges their white counter-parts enjoyed.

No, because that's entirely subjective. What's legitimate and fair to one may not be to another. Eric Rudolph can bomb abortion clinics and many will think of him as a monster, but some people will think of him as a crusader for the rights of the unborn. No one person can draw a line in the sand.

The case for breaking a law is best if it doesn't fall in line with the most basic of our human rights (which humans created, but I digress). King led the fight for civil rights because of the inhumanity brought on by segregation and discrimination.

Sorry to say it, but the world could do just as well without drugs. It just wouldn't be as fun.

[Vong]

That's true, but if you wanted to get into the legality of the issue, smoking marijuana purely for hedonistic sake can fall into the right to Life, Liberty and Security. You have to wonder at what point the state's jurisdiction over civilians begin and end, or what the extent of society's power is that it can legitimately exercise over the individual. As mentioned by QUINTIN, where is the harm in doing something in your own house that you do purely to your own body?

"Social or state interference in individual liberty is justified only when necessary to prevent harm to others" - John Stuart Mill

Your example of blowing up an abortion clinic is alittle extreme for what I'm talking about, since the person is directly harming others for the sake of expressing his views. Yes he is taking action against something that he might consider unlawful, but it isn't being done peacefully. I said that when laws are not (possibly subjectively) just, reasonable, etc., you have two options: revolt or peacefully protest. Since revolts tend to be disastorous, peaceful protests work best in plainfully communicating with (what should be) an open-minded government. Civil Disobedience requires the protestors to accept punishment for their crime.

What is considered "legitimate" and "fair" is subjective, true. But the manner in which you conduct your objections to the law that ignores these two values is crucial to both preserving the peace and taking an enlightened stance against the issue.

[The Postmaster General]

The thing about the whole harm to others is that too many assholes get ripped and do stupid shit and blame it on pot. I think the key to getting this thing where we want it to be isn't as much as focusing on laws, but maybe more along the lines of stop doing bong hits with your dumbass friends. I mean, in the most general terms. Pretty much the reason everything is illegal is because some asshole did something to make it illegal. At least with the exception of things brought forth as common law, like stealing and murder. The whole scheduling of drugs happened because a bunch of assholes wanted to freak out the establishment.

Personally, I'd like to see its approval for medical use, but I'm of the mind frame that there's too many assholes out there who don't deserve pot. It's taking into account the one bad apple mind-set, but whatever, I don't want some dumb steroid abusing asshole to be totally ripped and smoke a blunt and get confused by what I'm saying and try to kick my ass.

Not that that's ever happened.