Here we go...'Religulous' trailer

[someguy]

http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/06/06/religulous-movie-trailer

let the maher smearing begin

[Addi88]

I'm not really a fan of Bill Maher but, hey, I laughed at that trailer. Looks entertaining. It should be interesting though to see how different people react to it when it comes out.

[APzombie]

I just hope he has some people who can hold their own in a conversation about faith, seems like he goes in that direction with Newberg. I know his position but i like documentaries to be discussion oriented as opposed to just being preachy.

[hoojib127]

...as opposed to just being preachy.

Isn't that what many religions are all about? :confused:

[CuatroDiablos]

I will watch this for the LOL's.

[mel1ssa]

i watch bill maher whenever i see that it's on... and i know my husband is not within earshot of the tv. (his reaction is usually....volatile.) :)

not sure if i'll rent this one. he is so good at making fun of middle america, and he has some points that really hit home, hence the reception he receives by anyone close to conservative on the lib to conserv spectrum.

[Vong]

Looking forward to this...I don't agree with all of Maher's politics, but any satirist who isn't afraid to attack religion is ok in my books.

[Benj]

Hilarious. Not a huge fan of Maher, but not opposed to him either. Marketing it as the studio who brought you Fahrenheit 9/11 is going to provide this movie with some strong backlash, though. Oh well!

[bigred760]

I'm looking forward to this; I like Maher's type of humor. I don't watch his show, but have seen him several times on Larry King, and I end up laughing at his jokes. The trailer for the movie is pretty good too.

[dellamorte dellamore]

seems like he's shooting fish in a barrel , the targets couldn't be any easier to mock , but it's instant controversy , so it will make money .

[LordSimen]

Not interested in anything Bill Maher has to say. He may be a smart man and be right on many situations, but I have no respect for anyone who's entire career is built upon him being an asshole with no respect for anyone else.

Fuck Bill Maher.

[Scarfather]

While religion is the most hilariously obvious bit of bullshit humanity has ever concocted, and it would do well to help people understand that, I can't help but hear Bill Maher's smarmy drawl and realize that nobody will ever be enlightened with this prick in front of the camera.

[mel1ssa]

While religion is the most hilariously obvious bit of bullshit humanity has ever concocted, and it would do well to help people understand that, I can't help but hear Bill Maher's smarmy drawl and realize that nobody will ever be enlightened with this prick in front of the camera.

agreed.

maher chooses disrespectful mockery to make his point. doesn't mean that the point isn't true, but it certainly is a divisive tactic that does not contribute toward any desire for change in most people. i get confused about what his intentions are - pure humor (profit) or true change (in such a way that he can also reap profits).

[SkyNet]

i love Bill Maher, never miss his show... have all his stand up dvd's

and i fucking LOATHE any and all religions, cuz they are all hypocritical and full of shit

this movie will own!

[LordSimen]

agreed.

maher chooses disrespectful mockery to make his point. doesn't mean that the point isn't true, but it certainly is a divisive tactic that does not contribute toward any desire for change in most people. i get confused about what his intentions are - pure humor (profit) or true change (in such a way that he can also reap profits).

Maher is a lot like Michael Moore, he may actually have a good point that definitely should be taken into consideration, but the way he goes about getting his point across just makes him look like a complete jack ass and makes you not want to listen to him any more than you have to.

[mel1ssa]

Maher is a lot like Michael Moore, he may actually have a good point that definitely should be taken into consideration, but the way he goes about getting his point across just makes him look like a complete jack ass and makes you not want to listen to him any more than you have to.

yes -- and you know he knows this. he's an intelligent guy. that's why i question his motives. if he really wants this country to change, he must realize that his methods are counter-productive. so, i generally assume that he does it all for the humor. (hmmm...what could this say about michael moore?)

i don't disagree with all of his points. and, i like the fact that no one is immune from his satire. he'll knock anyone famous (political, celebrity, etc.) who does something that makes them look like a jackass.

[brodeurnumber1]

I'll see it, mainly because I'm anti-religion and pro-Bill Maher.

[floydtheater07]

Maher is a funny guy, but this trailer clearly indicates that he will be focusing on fundamentalists instead of religion as a whole, because let's face it, if he took an honest approach, it wouldn't be funny.

What is funny is how Maher's apparent attitude towards this subject is regarded quite often as intellectual, when anyone who does a little bit of inquiry will realize that such an attitude is actually pretty ignorant. People like this want religion to be ridiculous, so they only focus on the groups who follow religion literally and disregard the historical context within which a religion originated. You don't have to be a scholar of theology, you just need to be reasonably intelligent, to see that this approach displays a general lack of knowledge about religion, as well as an unwillingness to be open-minded and curious. Now if all Maher is trying to do is ridicule fundamentalists, that is fine, but from the marketing, this does not appear to be an informed look at religion in general.

For the record, I am not a fundamentalist, nor do I think there is such a thing as one correct faith. I do have an interest in spirituality and religion, but in a general sense. So I'm not some unintelligent hick who got offended by Maher. Like him, I tend to be liberal in my politics. But unlike him, I'm curious about this subject and accept that the division between spirituality and science/logic is not as defined as he would like it to be.

[Deadite914]

I have enough pretentious counter-preachy Atheists in my english class to babble on about the great new book the read that devotes 300+ pages arguing the exists of a high power. Frankly, it all sounds the same after about 6-7 months of hearing/reading it all. Not to mention, Bill Maher gives off very douche-bag-y vibes inho. so Bill, buddy, pal, good for you, making a "O my. Hush Hush" film. but all the same, the 6-10 bucks i would be shelling out to see your film are better spent on a 2 packs of cigarettes, a new par of so/so headphones, or a perhaps a tasty five dollar footlong, with your choice of meats, cheese, and dressing. only at subway. subway: eat fresh.(can't have a good post with out sponsors....or is it spoilers. Meh.)

[dellamorte dellamore]

I just think he's attacking easy targets , and mixing some stock footage to make people look insane . Show some footage of someone jiggling around in a niteclub , it won't look much different than someone boogying down the aisle , okay the one in the niteclube will hopefully be better looking and scantily clad .

You can make anything look extreme if you find the fanatics of any type of belief . How crazy do the SW fans look when they dress up like Darth maul to go to a premiere , it's not much different than someone dressing up with their Sunday best and going to church .

I don't mind him exploring the fringe elements of ' religion " , but i know most likely he's just out to exploit in order to make himself look superior . He's not trying to enlighten people about religion , he's merely mocking the people who follow one by highlighting the worst of it and the bigots .

Of course , these type of documentaries start from assumption and progress to self fulfilling prophecies , he's not trying to find any sort of truth ,. They can edit footage any way they want in order to achieve the desired result . That's what Moore does and has done .

Can it at least work as comedy , if by comedy you mean maher making a smart aleck remark , waiting for a response from an interviewee and then smirking as they answer , i guess it has the potential to be hilarious then .

[sightless]

[QUOTE=floydtheater07;2774526]

What is funny is how Maher's apparent attitude towards this subject is regarded quite often as intellectual, when anyone who does a little bit of inquiry will realize that such an attitude is actually pretty ignorant. People like this want religion to be ridiculous, so they only focus on the groups who follow religion literally and disregard the historical context within which a religion originated. You don't have to be a scholar of theology, you just need to be reasonably intelligent, to see that this approach displays a general lack of knowledge about religion, as well as an unwillingness to be open-minded and curious. Now if all Maher is trying to do is ridicule fundamentalists, that is fine, but from the marketing, this does not appear to be an informed look at religion in general.




There is nothing wrong with ridiculing religions and stupidity it generates. There are many of them and only one can be correct.

[floydtheater07]

[QUOTE]

There is nothing wrong with ridiculing religions and stupidity it generates. There are many of them and only one can be correct.

Not when one realizes that religious stories are merely parables, a basic concept which it seems Maher is unwilling to grasp. Yes, there are still those who believe that the world was created in a week, but they are not the majority. Anyone who watches those clips in the trailer and believes them to be an accurate representation of religion is either misinformed or simply wants to dislike religion.

[MadsenOMC]

Yes, there are still those who believe that the world was created in a week, but they are not the majority.

Not true, according to Gallup and Pew Research polls. About half of Americans do believe that.

[BakeTheMooCow]

You're right, Madsen. In fact, there's a recent article (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3211737&page=1) that says:
According to an ABC News poll, 60 percent of Americans believe God created the world in six days.

I've grown to like Maher less and less over the years. His misogyny is on display every week on his show and some of his beliefs about the pharmaceutical industry are ridiculous and the comments about the Florida teen who got beaten up were disgusting.

But I do agree with him in some degrees about religion and that's why I'll watch this movie.

[floydtheater07]

Not true, according to Gallup and Pew Research polls. About half of Americans do believe that.

Point taken. However, that is merely a poll of all Americans, not all religious people in the world. I suppose what I am saying is that religious people are not, as a rule, nutjobs. By attacking those that are, Maher won't be adding much to the dialogue.

[MadsenOMC]

I suppose what I am saying is that religious people are not, as a rule, nutjobs. By attacking those that are, Maher won't be adding much to the dialogue.

Of course not all religious people are nutjobs, but it's not just a case of "a few bad apples." There are millions of nutjobs.

I doubt Maher is even attempting to add to the dialogue.

[someguy]

Yeah, I think that once anyone heard Bill Maher and 'from the director of Borat' they shouldn't have expected something to seriously try and open up a dialogue. It's obvious that this is a movie targeted towards atheists and people who can have a sense of humour/open mind about what Maher is doing. My only fear is that he'll focus too much on Christianity rather than other religions. I understand why he would put a bigger focus on it because it's the leading religion in America but I'm hoping there's more of a balance.

[Grand_Marquis]

You can make anything look extreme if you find the fanatics of any type of belief . How crazy do the SW fans look when they dress up like Darth maul to go to a premiere , it's not much different than someone dressing up with their Sunday best and going to church

Uhhh...not to shit on your point or anything but, I don't think anyone dressing up as Darth Maul actually believes he exists...

And frankly, pointing to fundamentalists and saying "THEY'RE JUST A FRINGE GROUP! THEY'RE NOT ME!!!1" is no excuse. As active, reasonable, and moderate members of our religion, we have a responsibility to reign in and control our bigots, not sit back in our easychairs and lazily point to them as the exceptions that prove the rule.

[LordSimen]

[QUOTE=Grand_Marquis;2775374
And frankly, pointing to fundamentalists and saying "THEY'RE JUST A FRINGE GROUP! THEY'RE NOT ME!!!1" is no excuse. As active, reasonable, and moderate members of our religion, we have a responsibility to reign in and control our bigots, not sit back in our easychairs and lazily point to them as the exceptions that prove the rule.[/QUOTE]

Reign in and control? Sorry. We have no authority to reign in and control anybody for any reason. Especially if the sole reason for doing so is because they believe something you don't believe. If they're not doing harm to anybody, I'm not going to bust in on them in their sleep with machine guns and tell them to change.

[MadsenOMC]

If they're not doing harm to anybody, I'm not going to bust in on them in their sleep with machine guns and tell them to change.

Probably not what he meant, and you probably know that.

[LordSimen]

Probably not what he meant, and you probably know that.

What could he possibly have meant if not? Making fun of all religious people because of their zealots and then telling them those who aren't zealots can't sit there and say "Hey, that's them. We're not them," because they aren't "Reigning in" and "Controlling?" What does he want us to do? Beat them in the streets?

[MadsenOMC]

What could he possibly have meant if not? Making fun of all religious people because of their zealots and then telling them those who aren't zealots can't sit there and say "Hey, that's them. We're not them," because they aren't "Reigning in" and "Controlling?" What does he want us to do? Beat them in the streets?

Well I can't speak for him, but I would think he meant leading by example. Rather than just "sit back" (as he said) and do nothing, be proactive and do something about it. That doesn't mean using force, and he wasn't talking about every single religious person.

[LordSimen]

Well I can't speak for him, but I would think he meant leading by example. Rather than just "sit back" (as he said) and do nothing, be proactive and do something about it. That doesn't mean using force, and he wasn't talking about every single religious person.

And what can we proactively do about the way close-minded, religiously fanatic people think? It's the way they are. We're not going to change them no matter what we try and honestly I don't even think it's our place to tell them what to think, regardless of how idiotic their thoughts might be.

[MadsenOMC]

And what can we proactively do about the way close-minded, religiously fanatic people think? It's the way they are. We're not going to change them no matter what we try and honestly I don't even think it's our place to tell them what to think, regardless of how idiotic their thoughts might be.

That's a defeatist attitude, and maybe not everyone thinks that's the only way to approach it. There are those who would rather try and engage in a dialogue about it and see if common ground can be reached. It isn't necessarily always about telling someone what to think either.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-bakker-gay-church-09-jun09,0,1906519.story

[LordSimen]

That's a defeatist attitude, and maybe not everyone thinks that's the only way to approach it. There are those who would rather try and engage in a dialogue about it and see if common ground can be reached. It isn't necessarily always about telling someone what to think either.


So I suppose making a documentary with a smug asshole making fun of the zealots is an appropriate way to open up dialogue? Wonderful. Glad to see these amazing tactics for change at work. :rolleyes:

[MadsenOMC]

So I suppose making a documentary with a smug asshole making fun of the zealots is an appropriate way to open up dialogue? Wonderful. Glad to see these amazing tactics for change at work. :rolleyes:

I never said that. Actually, earlier I said that I'm sure Maher is not trying to open up a dialogue with this movie. Did you happen to read that, or was it easier for you to just throw in the eye roll?

[LordSimen]

I never said that. Actually, earlier I said that I'm sure Maher is not trying to open up a dialogue with this movie. Did you happen to read that, or was it easier for you to just throw in the eye roll?

Actually I didn't. However, I don't see how there's anything wrong with us to look at his documentary and the people he is making fun of and say that is' not fair to judge the entirety of spiritual people based on the extremists.

Then to tell us that instead of saying that's not fair, and that it's not okay for us to say that we're not them, that we have to reign in and control them. Sorry, the only way that can possibly be read is if we physically and mentally controlled the bigots and their thoughts.

Making communications with people will never reign in and control the bigots. That'll just make them hate us as much as they hate the people they already hate. That's not reigning and controlling.

[The Postmaster General]

Uhhh...not to shit on your point or anything but, I don't think anyone dressing up as Darth Maul actually believes he exists...

And frankly, pointing to fundamentalists and saying "THEY'RE JUST A FRINGE GROUP! THEY'RE NOT ME!!!1" is no excuse. As active, reasonable, and moderate members of our religion, we have a responsibility to reign in and control our bigots, not sit back in our easychairs and lazily point to them as the exceptions that prove the rule.



That's not fair though, because the perceived insanity is in the behavior, not inherently the belief. While some people think the concept of organized religion is stupid, others think Star Wars is stupid. It's not until either does something that gets our attention before anyone says, "What a bunch of loons!"

Fortunately, less than 1% of the population describes itself as a Jedi. So when the nutjobs from that group do surface, we get things like this:

http://joblo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120936

and less like the Crusades, 9/11, and maybe Woodstock reunion shows.

[MadsenOMC]

However, I don't see how there's anything wrong with us to look at his documentary and the people he is making fun of and say that is' not fair to judge the entirety of spiritual people based on the extremists.

Then to tell us that instead of saying that's not fair, and that it's not okay for us to say that we're not them, that we have to reign in and control them. Sorry, the only way that can possibly be read is if we physically and mentally controlled the bigots and their thoughts.

Making communications with people will never reign in and control the bigots. That'll just make them hate us as much as they hate the people they already hate. That's not reigning and controlling.

You can be upset if you think Maher is making fun of all religious people. I'm going to wait and see the movie before I come to any conclusions, even though I don't believe that Maher is attempting to open up a discussion with this movie.

I'll have to let Grand Marquis speak for himself. He can explain what he meant. I'm just assuming that he didn't mean physically reigning people in.

[MadsenOMC]

Also, as the article I posted a link to talks about, I think it's cool that gay Christians are trying to engage in a dialogue with conservative Evangelicals. They could easily just say, "Well, I'm never going to change their mind, so I'm not even going to try." But they're not. And I don't think they are trying to tell anyone how to think. They're just trying to show them that they are regular people who are also Christian but happen to be gay.

[LordSimen]

You can be upset if you think Maher is making fun of all religious people. I'm going to wait and see the movie before I come to any conclusions, even though I don't believe that Maher is attempting to open up a discussion with this movie.

I'll have to let Grand Marquis speak for himself. He can explain what he meant. I'm just assuming that he didn't mean physically reigning people in.

You may very well be correct that Maher doesn't have the intention of opening up any dialogue whatsoever. But then if he isn't intending to, I don't see what possibly purpose a documentary could have if not to document and open up conversation.

I'm really starting to just get sick of these documentaries that try to enlighten people, give them the information and fight for change... Yet go about it in ways that only further DIVIDE US instead of bringing us together to an agreement. It's why I can't stand Michael Moore's documentaries. For example, Bowling For Columbine was created to enlighten people on the way the gun industry works and fight for change on gun related issues. So how does he go about it? He tricks Charlton Heston into an interview in his own home only to attempt to completely humiliate him. That's how you fight for change? By completely pushing away people instead of bringing them in to discuss the issue?

It's starting to piss me off. Especially since these are the new kind of documentaries that are becoming popular and this is what people seem to mistake for "making a change in the world." The only change it's making is it's further separating everyone instead of bringing us together.

[MadsenOMC]

I refuse to feel sorry for Charlton Heston, especially after his comments and actions following the school shootings in Columbine and Flint.

However, I am not a huge Moore fan either and I do not much care for documentaries that preach. I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from.

There are good documentaries out there that merely attempt to document. Of course, every single one has an agenda. As soon as someone decides to make one they have an agenda. But some are much more balanced than others.

I think Maher is just trying to make one that's funny, rather than educational.

[LordSimen]

I refuse to feel sorry for Charlton Heston, especially after his comments and actions following the school shootings in Columbine and Flint.

However, I am not a huge Moore fan either and I do not much care for documentaries that preach. I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from.



I definitely am not saying we should pity Charlton Heston or feel sorry for him. Really, that's not what bugs me about the situation. It's just I don't understand how one can claim to fight for change yet, instead of opening up a conversation with those who can change it... Choose to attack and humiliate them, thus further separating them from you and essentially making it impossible for them to EVER change their mind now that they've seen the underhanded tactics you're willing to go to.

I really am not fond of documentaries from any side of any issue who choose to go about their issues this way. It just seems counterproductive to me.


There are good documentaries out there that merely attempt to document. Of course, every single one has an agenda. As soon as someone decides to make one they have an agenda. But some are much more balanced than others.

I think Maher is just trying to make one that's funny, rather than educational.

There definitely are great documentaries out there, and it's completely true that every documentary has an agenda. I don't think it's really possibly to make one unless you have something to prove. I just think that pushing people further away from each other is not an effective way to prove anything or push any agenda.

If Maher is just trying to make a funny, Borat styled documentary then I apologize for getting so mad at him for this. However, knowing Maher's usual style, he always truck me as the kind of person who tries to push agenda through humor. Maybe that was just my interpretation. I guess we'll have to wait for the documentary itself and/or hear what Maher has to say about it himself.

[Grand_Marquis]

Reign in and control? Sorry. We have no authority to reign in and control anybody for any reason. Especially if the sole reason for doing so is because they believe something you don't believe. If they're not doing harm to anybody, I'm not going to bust in on them in their sleep with machine guns and tell them to change.

I'm not talking about force, and I'm not talking about people who don't believe what you believe. I'm talking about people who do believe what you believe, and are giving your particular religion - whatever it may be - a bad name. It's intellectually and morally lazy to just stand aside and say 'oh that's not me'. If it's 'not us' then we should do something about it.

[LordSimen]

I'm not talking about force, and I'm not talking about people who don't believe what you believe. I'm talking about people who do believe what you believe, and are giving your particular religion - whatever it may be - a bad name. It's intellectually and morally lazy to just stand aside and say 'oh that's not me'. If it's 'not us' then we should do something about it.

What do you suggest? What can we do about how people act?

[MadsenOMC]

I definitely am not saying we should pity Charlton Heston or feel sorry for him. Really, that's not what bugs me about the situation. It's just I don't understand how one can claim to fight for change yet, instead of opening up a conversation with those who can change it... Choose to attack and humiliate them, thus further separating them from you and essentially making it impossible for them to EVER change their mind now that they've seen the underhanded tactics you're willing to go to.

I really am not fond of documentaries from any side of any issue who choose to go about their issues this way. It just seems counterproductive to me.

I agree with you here. That's just the Moore way, to the detriment of his films.



There definitely are great documentaries out there, and it's completely true that every documentary has an agenda. I don't think it's really possibly to make one unless you have something to prove. I just think that pushing people further away from each other is not an effective way to prove anything or push any agenda.

If Maher is just trying to make a funny, Borat styled documentary then I apologize for getting so mad at him for this. However, knowing Maher's usual style, he always truck me as the kind of person who tries to push agenda through humor. Maybe that was just my interpretation. I guess we'll have to wait for the documentary itself and/or hear what Maher has to say about it himself.

At this point I have no idea what Maher is up to with this. Have to wait and see I guess.

I am grateful to Moore for one thing. He made documentaries popular, and I have seen some great ones that otherwise may never have seen the light of day.

[dellamorte dellamore]

I can see he succeeded in getting people talking , so you can't exactly say the doc didn't open up discussion , and it will definitely make money once everyone starts protesting and such . It's guaranteed they will , and that's what they are hoping for to maximize profits , profit generation is a religion ;)

[countchocula]

Art doesn't have to change the world. If Maher only wants his film to be funny and entertaining, I don't see anything wrong with that. Depicting Christians as "crazy" only seems "crazy" because religion is, in fact, "crazy." Southern Baptists take the Bible very literally, and in my opinion, they are bat shit crazy. Religion is a drug, and it will never go away because human beings need something to believe in. If The Bible stated that eating meat was a sin, then Chistians would believe it. Not because it makes sense, but because it's in the Bible. Christians are fucking crazy.

[Commodore]

Maher isn't going to touch Islam for fear of getting his head cut off.

Much easier to go after Christians who don't fight back, it being a sin and all.

[Jon Lyrik]

Yeah, this topic seems way too easy after being on the internet for eight years. An Islam focus would be a bit more novel.

[KCJ506]

Maher isn't going to touch Islam for fear of getting his head cut off.

Much easier to go after Christians who don't fight back, it being a sin and all.


Yeah, this topic seems way too easy after being on the internet for eight years. An Islam focus would be a bit more novel.


I usually try to avoid any of kind of discussion having to do with religion but after seeing these two comments I felt like I needed to say something I've been wanting to say for awhile.

You two are pretty much right about the Islam stuff. For instance, YouTube has always tolerated at least a thousand videos blasting Christians and their faith for the full 10 minutes on webcam upload by self- proclaimed "intellectuals" who are basically failing college students who clung to atheism because it opposed mainstream and was a way to feel smart while still rebelling against their parents (in their minds, a better alternative to drugs). YouTube allows this because they claim to favor "free speech". But they continually pull the plug on many, many anti-Muslim videos. Kinda self-contradictory.

It seems like people only consider "free speech" if it's something they agree with. I've seen this a few times on here and plenty of times on other message boards. If an atheist acts like a jackass and goes around blasting people of faith, other ones worship him and go with that "I have freedom of speech, so I can say whatever I want" BS, but if a Christian pulls the same type of crap, he a vicious basher and intolerant. Hypocrites.

The whole "hate speech" garbage does the same. Many of these liberal groups claim its wrong (despite our constitutional right to freedom of speech) and want it to be illegal to publicly publish or profess any statements negative toward or against a certain selection of groups (most of them typically leftist in thinking), while still allowing (and encouraging) discriminatory speech against other groups, such as Christians.

A girl was recently being mocked in class for her family's Mormon beliefs. She responded to the teasing, "That's so gay." She was suspended from school because of her remarks. Many kids are drawing spiritual symbols in their art class, and the kid who paints a cross not only does not get his work put up with the other artwork, but its rejected from the assignment (based on the nonChristian teacher's intolerance- claiming it's infringing upon policies). Pathetic.

[MadsenOMC]

The whole "hate speech" garbage does the same. Many of these liberal groups claim its wrong (despite our constitutional right to freedom of speech) and want it to be illegal to publicly publish or profess any statements negative toward or against a certain selection of groups (most of them typically leftist in thinking), while still allowing (and encouraging) discriminatory speech against other groups, such as Christians.

Examples please.

And I am so fucking sick of Christians whining about being persecuted. They are the fucking majority in America. The idea that they are some persecuted minority is completely absurd.

What about Christians trying to take over school boards and force the teaching of creationism in public schools? What about the numerous stories of religious persecution in the military (it seems especially prevalent in the Air Force), with Christians making sure that anyone who is not a Christian feels very unwelcome? I could go on and on.

[Badbird]

Mahar has taken shots at Islam all the time on his show. I can't be for sure, but I bet the movie is showing the extreme side of American Christianity as a juxtaposition that many people think that Islam is the only extreme religion.

You hear people criticize moderate Muslims for not "standing up against extreme Islam..." or whatever (many do, but you don't really hear that). Well, then the same must be said for moderate Christians to stand up against the insane Christians that are all over this country.

I'm a fan of Bill Mahar and Michael Moore. I don't care if they come off sounding condescending or if people think they're assholes. Because you know what? Sometimes that's the only way to call attention to something.

I've had enough civil discourse regarding religions place in American society. It's time to drop notions of political correctness, put our foot down on extremists and say "No, you're an idiot. Shut the fuck up."

[LordSimen]

I'm a fan of Bill Mahar and Michael Moore. I don't care if they come off sounding condescending or if people think they're assholes. Because you know what? Sometimes that's the only way to call attention to something.

It's the WORST possible way to call attention to something. Because it further divides us instead of actually working together to strive for a solution. In fact, when I hear someone like Maher and Moore, their conduct makes me wish to ignore them. I don't like smug assholes like them.

[Jon Lyrik]

Don't forget, plenty of Muslims have spoken against their nuttier brethren. How many fatwas does Osama have on his ass again?

I usually try to avoid any of kind of discussion having to do with religion but after seeing these two comments I felt like I needed to say something I've been wanting to say for awhile.

You two are pretty much right about the Islam stuff. For instance, YouTube has always tolerated at least a thousand videos blasting Christians and their faith for the full 10 minutes on webcam upload by self- proclaimed "intellectuals" who are basically failing college students who clung to atheism because it opposed mainstream and was a way to feel smart while still rebelling against their parents (in their minds, a better alternative to drugs). YouTube allows this because they claim to favor "free speech". But they continually pull the plug on many, many anti-Muslim videos. Kinda self-contradictory.

It seems like people only consider "free speech" if it's something they agree with. I've seen this a few times on here and plenty of times on other message boards. If an atheist acts like a jackass and goes around blasting people of faith, other ones worship him and go with that "I have freedom of speech, so I can say whatever I want" BS, but if a Christian pulls the same type of crap, he a vicious basher and intolerant. Hypocrites.

The whole "hate speech" garbage does the same. Many of these liberal groups claim its wrong (despite our constitutional right to freedom of speech) and want it to be illegal to publicly publish or profess any statements negative toward or against a certain selection of groups (most of them typically leftist in thinking), while still allowing (and encouraging) discriminatory speech against other groups, such as Christians.

A girl was recently being mocked in class for her family's Mormon beliefs. She responded to the teasing, "That's so gay." She was suspended from school because of her remarks. Many kids are drawing spiritual symbols in their art class, and the kid who paints a cross not only does not get his work put up with the other artwork, but its rejected from the assignment (based on the nonChristian teacher's intolerance- claiming it's infringing upon policies). Pathetic.

I was starting to agree with you until you started ranting and raving about leftists and hate speech activists. The only active leftism in this country is looked at as fringe-like, and hate speech laws are VERY weak. In Europe it's a problem, though. As for mass encouragement for bashing Christianity while embracing Islam--I'm not sure if that's the case. Accusations of political correctness are so old hat it's lost it's whole meaning. I'd rather consider it fear (not quite cowardice) of the repercussions of facilitating such criticism. It's stupid and should be dealt with, but isn't nearly as all-consuming as you seem to imply. There's still plenty of anti-Islam work coming out constantly, it isn't seen in the media because...nobody cares really (Google is your friend here). And those works have plenty of good points. Similarly, there is definitely real, unjust discrimination against Muslims, but it isn't as bad as it is in western Europe. Well, not yet.

And message board drama? That's stretching it. I think everyone outside of stupid 13-year-olds will agree that there is no free speech on a private message board, and there is no right not be criticized. That kind of shit goes all over any board on any subject to a degree.

As for the school thing, I'm not really outraged or convinced. You know how many stupid Draconian things are implemented on students in the country every day that are just as worthy of news stories? How about all the kids since Columbine who've been shit-canned by their peers and school for unjust school shooting rumors or paranoia? Nobody gives a shit about them. Anything from 6-year-olds bang-banging a teacher with a fish stick to a high school weirdo using an empty threat to get some assholes off his back.

[Grand_Marquis]

As for the school thing, I'm not really outraged or convinced. You know how many stupid Draconian things are implemented on students in the country every day that are just as worthy of news stories? How about all the kids since Columbine who've been shit-canned by their peers and school for unjust school shooting rumors or paranoia? Nobody gives a shit about them. Anything from 6-year-olds bang-banging a teacher with a fish stick to a high school weirdo using an empty threat to get some assholes off his back.

Or, on the flip side, that student who was suspended for using an inhaler - which he needed - because of his school's zero tolerance policy. I'm sorry KCJ, but a teacher taking down johnny's crappy marker cross because it doesn't apply to whatever the subject matter was supposed to be just doesn't hold up in comparison. I understand the concern, but I don't see Christian groups helping secular bigotry. Apparently it's only unjust if it involves the Ten Commandments or saying "one nation under God" or something. :rolleyes:


You hear people criticize moderate Muslims for not "standing up against extreme Islam..." or whatever (many do, but you don't really hear that). Well, then the same must be said for moderate Christians to stand up against the insane Christians that are all over this country.
This is exactly the point I was trying to make before. You can't walk around shrugging your shoulders at 'the crazies' and then turn around and act surprised when someone 'persecutes' you because they don't trust your religion. It doesn't work that way.

[mel1ssa]

It's time to drop notions of political correctness, put our foot down on extremists and say "No, you're an idiot. Shut the fuck up."

very well said. i really like the sentiment.

i will say, though, i am not keen on 'doing something' about it. i'll voice my opinion, tell them they're douchebags and then get on with my life. i don't see it as my responsibility to change their mind, change their belief system, or turn them into something i want them to be. they can't change my mind, so why the hell would i try to change theirs?

seems very apathetic, i know. and if you're passionate about this (i can see that some of you are), then i respectfully understand why my response would be particularly frustrating. but guys, i want people to leave my shit alone. i want people out of my damn business getting their own lives in order so that they can live happily and set the perfect fucking example for everyone else.

if they're breaking a law, that's one thing. but where do you draw the line? where does social responsibility begin/end?

[Orson-Cockart]

People should have a right to voice whatever opinion they have. We must be entitled to voice opposition to religion, atheists, fags, etc. We can't have a system where some groups are eligible for attack, while others are protected. So it must be acceptable for someone to make a documentary attacking homosexual Jews (hmmmm I wonder what relevance that has to Maher).

[hoojib127]

It's the WORST possible way to call attention to something. Because it further divides us instead of actually working together to strive for a solution. In fact, when I hear someone like Maher and Moore, their conduct makes me wish to ignore them. I don't like smug assholes like them.

But considering both sides usually have their heels dug so far into to the ground in the first place, it's probably a moot point. Welcome to the world of "-I'm right. -No, I'm right...and nothing you can say can change my mind." : ?

[dellamorte dellamore]

I'm convinced now , the film will be a hit . It has everyone in an uproar just because of a little teaser trailer lol .

I agree , and i know this is redundant , he's going after easy targets , a wacked out bible thumper is such a cliche now , it's exists in a comical realm on it's own , without any need for prodding or exposure . Is this doc just a simple reminder how obsessive and self righteous some people are about whatever religion they identify with , i don't know , but it's old news . To me anyway .


I don't blame religion for the ills of the world , and i believe every follows some sort of religion , even atheists , it's whatever you happen to believe in , could be science or an all powerful god , your own intellect . What motivates people , their belief system is their religion . It may not be an established , government recognized one , but it is one nonetheless .


It's the perversion of someone's personal beliefs and faith that contributes to murder and mayhem . I think most people know , inherently , when they are doing something wrong , regardless of what they try to make themselves believe or what " religion " they identify with . I don't think there is any religion , the main ones , that advocate murder and genocide , Islam certainly doesn't , but terrorists utilize it as a tool for domination, much like a pedophile priest will use it to abuse children , it becomes a self righteous tool for personal gain and manipulation , but it's not the religion that is at fault , but the individual that has subverted it's tenets .

This doc will most likely avoid any complex issues , it appears to be a superficial vanity project to pump up MR Maher's massive ego . I don't have a problem with that , that's his right to make himself look superior while making fools out of easy targets .


He's no doubt going for sensationalism , because he knows it's an easy sell , a sober , introspective , complex study on religion and how it affects people would bomb big time at the box office , and that's a shame , because i think if he really wanted too , he could eschew the over the top aspects and surprise everyone with something that doesn't purely exist to incite and appeal to existing bigotry .

Then again , i'm just surmising at this point , i will have to see the entire film before assuming much more .

[Elgyn]

We must be entitled to voice opposition to religion, atheists, fags, etc.


:eek:Did I just read that correctly?

My goodness, I don`t think I`ve ever seen such an intelligently-worded thought put into sentence form in all my life!

You DO mean "fags" as in the English slang term for cigerettes.......right?

[Sgt Politeness]

This whole movie seems pointless and easy. How many times have we seen this same message in movies, documentaries and internet rants? We fucking GET IT already. Let me guess: Christianity is a collective bunch of whacked out nut jobs, all of them are evil, evil suppressive people out to end science and burn atheists. All Christians are idiot bible-thumping bigots and white supremacist retards. There is no moderate Christian and no intelligent person would EVER believe in something as stupid as God or Jesus. Middle America is a wasteland of stupid, regressive, gay-fearing and black-hating cross burning rednecks who spend all their time shooting guns off and fucking their sisters. Yes, Maher, we (your viewing audience) understand that if we don't live on a coast we are all cousin-fuckers.
If Maher wants to impress, he should dedicate a movie revealing just how fucked up Islam is. Not just a few smarmy comments on your show, but an international release. Use that to generate the controversy you seem so fucking desperate for to either fill your wallet or your ego (or both?). Go balls out on it too. Dive deep into the Koran and mock the fuck out of it. Show what the results of Muslim fanaticism has cost in human lives. Really get your fucking hands dirty and then I'll watch it. Take a fucking risk.
Stop attacking a safe target that has already been done to death (and I'm willing to be its been done better). It isn't controversial, it isn't new or relevant. I'm an agnostic, politically moderate and I really don't have a dog in this fight. I am just tired of watching egotistical assholes with inferiority complexes attack safe targets. I've seen quite a few episodes of Maher's show and while his guests are usually interesting, as a host he never has struck me as witty or even very funny.
To me this whole movie is Maher stirring up pointless controversy, getting a brief ego-high and cashing a paycheck. I'd rather see him attack a political target. I'll have to wait until some reviews come in before I consider seeing it.

[JackD.Ripper]

I love how normal 'Religulous' people separate themselves from the crazies by saying that they don't take it literally like those other nuts. If you don't take it literally than how do you take it? I mean if you don't really believe that a virgin had a baby or that aliens came down thousands of years ago and put us here(talkin' to you Travolta) than you aren't even a believer and mine as well be worshiping Jack and the Beanstalk. Believing there is a higher power is understandable but putting a name and back story on it is just following a bunch of uninformed people from thousands of years ago.

I read an interview with Maher and he does go into the history of religion with this film. He talks about how religions were around long before Jesus and how they are all alike with the exact same flood stories and such. Again just a bunch of early humans who didn't understand the basics of the universe and created stories to explain lightning, earthquakes, floods etc. So while it is a comedy I'm sure there will be something learned if you give it a chance.

On a side note I was at the Roosevelt Hotel in LA last thursday night and met Bill himself at a party he threw. He was very cool and talked to a few of us about the upcoming election before he ran off with a group of hot and very young pieces of ass. Alas I didn't manage to get any of the pussy falling out of his pockets. Seriously even if you don't like his politics you've got to respect the man as a true pimp.

[DaMovieMan]

They're just trying to show them that they are regular people who are also Christian but happen to be gay.

Depending on the depth of their faith, that's kind of a contradiction. Don't get me wrong, i'm cool with there being gays and lesbians in this world, free-love and all that, it's the new world we're living in, but I would find it interesting to hear how they explain their version of Christianity and God and that whole story of man and woman.

On the film though, I enjoy Maher quite a lot, he's a funny guy and speaks intelligent things most of the times so i will give this film a go, but if it's going to be all about ridiculing anyone and everyone who believes in God/religion/a higher power, then it's going to be a little too redundant for my tastes.

[MadsenOMC]

Depending on the depth of their faith, that's kind of a contradiction. Don't get me wrong, i'm cool with there being gays and lesbians in this world, free-love and all that, it's the new world we're living in, but I would find it interesting to hear how they explain their version of Christianity and God and that whole story of man and woman.

I don't think they're pitching an alternate Christianity or God. Yeah you sound very modern and accepting.

[DaMovieMan]

lol, I never said I was very modern or accepting, I merely implied that I am tolerant when it comes to gays and lesbians, i have friends and I know people who are homosexuals but none who believe themselves to be true Christians. That would be something new. For me at least.

[MadsenOMC]

Well get used to it. There are many gay Christians out there. Maybe it's time to broaden your horizons a bit.

[Orson-Cockart]

:eek:Did I just read that correctly?

My goodness, I don`t think I`ve ever seen such an intelligently-worded thought put into sentence form in all my life!

You DO mean "fags" as in the English slang term for cigerettes.......right?


No, fag as in the slang for homosexual -- as you well knew. And I don't know if you read the rest correctly, you may have decided to be melodramatic and take parts out of context. I'm not homophobic if that's what you're worried about.

[Elgyn]

Interesting choice of words, that`s all.

[Grand_Marquis]

The man likes to smoke fags. Let him be.

[DaMovieMan]

Well get used to it. There are many gay Christians out there. Maybe it's time to broaden your horizons a bit.

Yeah maybe. I'm not that surprised actually, what isn't there 'many of' nowadays?
Alls I'm curious about is how they explain themselves to eachother and others, that's all. I'll search out those conversations you talked about.

[Orson-Cockart]

The man likes to smoke fags. Let him be.

Only once with a shotgun. Lit that fag up from some distance. Smoking up the sky like the Injuns were comin'. :rolleyes:

[JackD.Ripper]

Got news for y'all, there were many of them in "those days" too. They just didn't have parades while wearing assless chaps and rainbows.

[MadsenOMC]

Yeah maybe. I'm not that surprised actually, what isn't there 'many of' nowadays?
Alls I'm curious about is how they explain themselves to eachother and others, that's all. I'll search out those conversations you talked about.

I posted a link to the recent Chicago Tribune article about it. Start there.

[Grand_Marquis]

Got news for y'all, there were many of them in "those days" too. They just didn't have parades while wearing assless chaps and rainbows.

Oh no, they had parades and assless chaps back then too. The difference was they called themselves gypsies and pretended to be straight. :P

[echo_bravo]

Yawn

Thats it???? Oh Bill, you are losing your touch. Like many people before me have already stated, whats so cutting edge about going up to a Jesus look alike and asking him "Why is there so much evil in this world?" Haha what is the guy supposed to say?
And picking on the harmless backwoods redneck religious folk...wow Bill, thats taking HUGE risks right there.

I guess if you enjoy the smug humor of Maher then this is right up your alley. I think I'll pass though.

[JackD.Ripper]

Oh no, they had parades and assless chaps back then too. The difference was they called themselves gypsies and pretended to be straight. :P

I stand corrected

Thats it???? Oh Bill, you are losing your touch.

Actually that's not it. It's just the trailer. I'm pretty sure the movie is a little longer.



Oh and I just watched the trailer for the first time and I have a question. What the fuck are you people talking about when you say he's Christian bashing again? There were at least as many muslim/morman parts there. Did you watch the same trailer?


How do you get the "Originally posted by" shit to come up? I'm retarded.

[DaMovieMan]

I posted a link to the recent Chicago Tribune article about it. Start there.

If you're talking about the "Gay Christians meet with Rev. Bill Hybels..." article then thanks for the suggestion but that article doesn't tell me anything. It's very vague and says little to nothing. I want to know how gay Christians who truly believe in the Bible, God, Adam, Eve etc. aren't making themselves go crazy from inner-conflict. Maybe Religulous will confront just that.

[MadsenOMC]

If you're talking about the "Gay Christians meet with Rev. Bill Hybels..." article then thanks for the suggestion but that article doesn't tell me anything. It's very vague and says little to nothing. I want to know how gay Christians who truly believe in the Bible, God, Adam, Eve etc. aren't making themselves go crazy from inner-conflict. Maybe Religulous will confront just that.

There are probably different ways to answer that. Maybe they believe the bible is open to interpretation, or not literally the word of God. Maybe they believe that Jesus would accept them without reservation.

Some more reading for you:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/12/us/12evangelical.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&oref=slogin
http://www.soulforce.org/article/529

[DaMovieMan]

There are probably different ways to answer that. Maybe they believe the bible is open to interpretation, or not literally the word of God. Maybe they believe that Jesus would accept them without reservation.


Yeah, maybe.

Some more reading for you:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/12/us/12evangelical.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&oref=slogin
http://www.soulforce.org/article/529



Okay, yeah, now I see, that first article pretty much sums it up. The gay Christians are interpreting the Scriptures their own way, that's why they're not going crazy. Good for them.

You didn't have to go through this trouble of finding these articles for me Madsen, but I appreciate that you did.

[travisvornoff]

ill check this one out. looks funnie if not super obvious.
ill do a double feature of this and jesus camp! what a nite that
would be!

[Brando @$$ Fat]

For a more honest and less dickish point of view, Matt Taibbi's The Great Derangement is a better route. Maher is tolerable in small doses, but a movie that does nothing but laugh at idiots who think they see Jesus in their toast is a waste of time.

[Orson-Cockart]

:

[MadsenOMC]

Okay, yeah, now I see, that first article pretty much sums it up. The gay Christians are interpreting the Scriptures their own way, that's why they're not going crazy. Good for them.

You didn't have to go through this trouble of finding these articles for me Madsen, but I appreciate that you did.

I don't mind, especially if someone is interested. Even though I'm a happily married straight man, it's something I very feel strongly about, and I like sharing my thoughts.