Bush says he "regrets his legacy".

[Elgyn]

I read this article and didn`t know whether to laugh or shake my head in frusteration. Apparently Dubya is concerned that he will be remembered as a war-mongerer who did more bad than good for the country. Gee, DO YA THINK??????:rolleyes:
Some of the quotes from Bush in this article are enough to make me scream. He`s said some pretty stupid stuff before......but this is too much. It`s not even funny anymore. I couldn`t believe the part about "putting youngsters in harm`s way". It`s embarressing that this man was president for 8 years.

Here it is:


From The TimesJune 11, 2008

President Bush regrets his legacy as man who wanted war

George Bush said he regretted the divisions caused by his rhetoric
Tom Baldwin and Gerard Baker in Ljubljana
President Bush has admitted to The Times that his gun-slinging rhetoric made the world believe that he was a “guy really anxious for war” in Iraq. He said that his aim now was to leave his successor a legacy of international diplomacy for tackling Iran.

In an exclusive interview, he expressed regret at the bitter divisions over the war and said that he was troubled about how his country had been misunderstood. “I think that in retrospect I could have used a different tone, a different rhetoric.”

Phrases such as “bring them on” or “dead or alive”, he said, “indicated to people that I was, you know, not a man of peace”. He said that he found it very painful “to put youngsters in harm’s way”. He added: “I try to meet with as many of the families as I can. And I have an obligation to comfort and console as best as I possibly can. I also have an obligation to make sure that those lives were not lost in vain.”

The unilateralism that marked his first White House term has been replaced by an enthusiasm for tough multilateralism. He said that his focus for his final six months in office was to secure agreement on issues such as establishing a Palestinian state and to “leave behind a series of structures that makes it easier for the next president”.

Mr Bush is concerned that the Democratic nominee Barack Obama might open cracks in the West’s united front towards Tehran’s nuclear ambitions. At the EU-US summit in Slovenia, he pressed for tougher sanctions against Iran unless it agreed to suspend its uranium enrichment programme verifiably: “They can either face isolation, or they can have better relations with all of us.”

Mr Bush told The Times that when his successor arrived and assessed “what will work or what won’t work in dealing with Iran”, he would stick with the current policy.

Shaul Mofaz, a hardline Israeli minister, has suggested that a military strike on Iran is “unavoidable”. But Mr Bush said: “We ought to work together, keep focused. His comments really should be viewed as the need to continue to keep pressuring Iran.”

The President was keen to bind his successor into a continued military presence in Afghanistan and Iraq, but offered only cautious optimism about a recent decline in violence. Asked about corruption allegations dogging Hamid Karzai, the Afghan President, Mr Bush insisted: “I have found him to be an honest man.”

He also offered words of encouragement for another ally, Gordon Brown, whom he will meet on Sunday. He said that he needed no advice on coping with political adversity. He is “plenty confident and plenty smart, plenty capable — he can sort it out”.

But he delivered a thinly veiled warning to Mr Obama that his promises to renegotiate or block international trade deals were already causing alarm in Europe and beyond.

“There is concern about protectionism and economic nationalism,” he said. “Leaders recognise now is the time to get ahead of this issue before it becomes engrained in the political systems of our respective countries.”

Acknowledging that his refusal to ratify the Kyoto Protocol once created consternation in Europe, he said that there was now a recognition that that richer countries needed to “transfer out of the hydrocarbon economy”. He insisted, however, that any binding emission targets would have to include China and India to be workable.

The President knows that Republican nominee-in-waiting John McCain will have to distance himself from the current Administration. "He's an independent person who will make his decisions on what he thinks is best."

Asked if the US is ready for a black president, Mr Bush says: "I think the fact that the Democratic Party nominated Barack Obama is a statement about how far America has come.

"Having said all that, it's going to be important for the American people to figure out who can handle the task of the 21st Century. It's a challenging job."

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Here`s a link to the original news page if anyone`s interested:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4107327.ece

[Cop No. 633]

It's probably the closest time he's ever come to not lying in the past ten years. Again, closest.

[Homyrrh]

Bush had one of the msot infamous presidencies in a considerably good while. Nearly everything he has said and done has been scrutinized and criticed profusely, most often justifiably.

So if he comes even close to apologize for this last eight years, cut the dude a break. You can hate him or his politics, but how often does a president even imply his whole damn presidency may have very well sucked?

Otherwise, interesting.

[Vong]

I wonder if people that voted for Bush are either sorry or wrong for doing so....

[Cop No. 633]

I can never forgive or cut the man any slack. I hope the egg heads who voted for him do feel guilty. They voted for a C-student/ex-cokehead/pathological liar/failed businessman/all around greedy son of a bitch all in the name of the values he "shares" with them and because they could have a beer with the President. THE PRESIDENT. Say that again. Exactly.

[MadsenOMC]

Bush had one of the msot infamous presidencies in a considerably good while. Nearly everything he has said and done has been scrutinized and criticed profusely, most often justifiably.

So if he comes even close to apologize for this last eight years, cut the dude a break. You can hate him or his politics, but how often does a president even imply his whole damn presidency may have very well sucked?


Too little and too late. After thousands upon thousands are dead (both U.S. military and Iraqi civilians) plus the enormous financial cost of this war, I'm just supposed to "cut the dude a break?" Poor Bush, he is sorry? Um, no. That's now how it works. Why should he be let off the hook so easily?

[Homyrrh]

Too little and too late. After thousands upon thousands are dead (both U.S. military and Iraqi civilians) plus the enormous financial cost of this war, I'm just supposed to "cut the dude a break?" Poor Bush, he is sorry? Um, no. That's now how it works. Why should he be let off the hook so easily?
My post was misinterpreted. I'm trying to convey that it seems he's damned if he does or doesn't, regardless of issue. I don't question the regrettable hindsight of the war, but instead of saying "That's right, you'd better be sorry" it's "Well not only are you stupid for going to war, but you're stupid for realizing the mistake"

Kind of a circular logic.

[MadsenOMC]

My post was misinterpreted. I'm trying to convey that it seems he's damned if he does or doesn't, regardless of issue. I don't question the regrettable hindsight of the war, but instead of saying "That's right, you'd better be sorry" it's "Well not only are you stupid for going to war, but you're stupid for realizing the mistake"

Kind of a circular logic.

Oh, sorry, my mistake.

[Cop No. 633]

Circular logic sounds like it fits Bush more than anybody on the thread. I can't tell you how many times he's used circular reasoning/logic.

I appreciate his gesture at attempting to appear like he cares. I like seeing a dog with its tail between its legs when it knows it's going to piss in the house again. So I can appreciate the gesture, but still when he's considering a military strike on Iran... I think it negates his "guilt" or ability to see how he messed up because he's obviously hasn't learned if he's thinking of doing it again.

[The Postmaster General]

At the same time he says he's regrets his legacy, he turns it around and tries to word it like it's Obama's fault. Anyone else catch that?

Very, very sneaky.

[jolanar]

Very, very sneaky.

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1112998/photo_05.jpg

I fear you are underestimating the sneakiness, sir.

[The Heart Collector]

So if he comes even close to apologize for this last eight years, cut the dude a break. You can hate him or his politics, but how often does a president even imply his whole damn presidency may have very well sucked?

His stupid fucking war for no good fucking reason has cost almost one million lives and you want me to cut him some slack because he apologized? I'll give him a break when he kills himself publicly. Otherwise, tough shit.

It's not a question of "maybe I made a mistake" because everyone and their fucking mother knows that the war was a load of shit based on ridiculously pitiful evidence. He knew it.


He found it very painful to put youngsters in harm's way? Is that why he and his administration were trying to negotiate PERMANENT PRESENCE IN IRAQ this week? This fucking week?

[The Postmaster General]

You guys are reading this incorrectly.

"Mr Bush is concerned that the Democratic nominee Barack Obama might open cracks in the West’s united front towards Tehran’s nuclear ambitions. "

He's not apologizing for going to war - not at all or not even close.

He's merely implying he may have come across the wrong way when he went to war. That's all he said. He never apologized for an unjust war, or even for the legacy he left. He didn't even say he regretted it. All he said was that he regretted how it tuned people on him. He is showing no concern for what he did, but how it was perceived by the public.

I don't get why the discussion is on this tip. All he is doing is trying to set-up McCain as not being perceived as a crazy war-monger because he knows McCain is going to follow through with Bush's war. He's basically saying, "Okay, what I did came off as a little crazy. We all know this, so don't worry it won't happen again."

This is an election time, and Bush is now trying to back up his party. How the fuck he can drag Obama into a discussion about his legacy as a war president pushes him even further beyond reprehensible.

I'd still like to party with the guy though.

[jeo4]

I wonder if people that voted for Bush are either sorry or wrong for doing so....

The more I know, the sorrier I am. Taking that asshole at his word about anything was a mistake, for sure.

Barack Obama has my vote. I hope I'm not wrong about that. So far, I think it's the right decision.

[The Postmaster General]

^^^I know how you feel jeo4. Gore had my vote in 2000, and Kerry in 2004, but even still, I supported Bush's war plan when it was about Afghanistan. Many of my friends, however, used to rail me about this, saying that it was nothing but a ruse to get us into Iraq for oil interests. I used to dismiss them as speaking out of political motivations, and not giving the guy a break. Of course it wasn't too long after when I felt totally wrong.

It's weird though, watching Bush over all these years. I remember back when we went into Afghanistan, and were preparing to go to Iraq, Bush being on Nightline or some show of the sort. He had so much vigor and enthusiasm, even a little humor. Over the years you see him looking more and more worried and less and less cocky. It's been coming to this for 8 years now, and the camel seems to be at least acknowledging that his back has been pretty well broken.

[shoe1985]

I remember when I went to vote in 2004, I knew who I was picking, and headed into the building. Before I even got into the building, there was a huge amount of Bush supporters outside yelling, "Go Bush," "4 More Years," and stuff like that. I was even given a pamphlet of why I should vote Bush. As soon as I got into the building, pamphlet went into the garbage, I voted Kerry, the plan all long. I told all of my friends, wait until the next election comes around, see how things are in this country. We are heading on the wrong course, and it will get bad. For some reason I could tell. Now here we are, and look how our country is being run. Gas prices are at all time highs, unemployment is up, stocks are dropping like crazy, I am going to hate to see this winter when people are freezing to death because they can't afford heat.

Now we could sit here and blame it all on Bush, but there are more people at fault. Congress, before the Dems took office we were seeing things starting to run off course. The housing market was beginning to drop, gas prices were on the rise, and the war was becoming too costly. Dems take office, and it is a whirlwind of trying to stabilize everything, but it was too late.

Then we have to look at ourselves for the problems in our lives. Did anyone here think, "Maybe I shouldn't take that Sunday drive, maybe it is time to conserve gas?" I doubt it, and look where we are. Then we have people expecting to retire thinking Social Security will provide for them until they pass away, well your lucky if it covers anything anymore. I know I am seeing more and more older workers than younger ones now, maybe because they are looking for a little bit more income to help pay the bills SS won't. We voted Bush back in. I didn't vote for him, but he won, so we voted him back in. People don't really think when they vote. Many people have one issue they will go with, if a candidate is for that issue like they are, they get the vote. Take guns, many people in PA vote just by this issue, it is quite creepy knowing that you would prefer letting the economy die just so you can have your guns.

Bush's legacy will be one of a guy trying to make peace in the Middle East, but instead, he caused too many problems. As Americans we see life as being a freedom, but in those countries the people are raised different. It is part of their culture and religion. Many might want freedom, but they follow their religion. We need to learn to respect these people and their values. All you hear is how they want to stop our freedoms, this is a crock. They just want to be left alone.

[Homyrrh]

His stupid fucking war for no good fucking reason has cost almost one million lives and you want me to cut him some slack because he apologized? I'll give him a break when he kills himself publicly. Otherwise, tough shit.

It's not a question of "maybe I made a mistake" because everyone and their fucking mother knows that the war was a load of shit based on ridiculously pitiful evidence. He knew it.


He found it very painful to put youngsters in harm's way? Is that why he and his administration were trying to negotiate PERMANENT PRESENCE IN IRAQ this week? This fucking week?
How about those troops? They finally worth something today? :rolleyes:

[Homyrrh]

Circular logic sounds like it fits Bush more than anybody on the thread. I can't tell you how many times he's used circular reasoning/logic.

I appreciate his gesture at attempting to appear like he cares. I like seeing a dog with its tail between its legs when it knows it's going to piss in the house again. So I can appreciate the gesture, but still when he's considering a military strike on Iran... I think it negates his "guilt" or ability to see how he messed up because he's obviously hasn't learned if he's thinking of doing it again.
That's my point. He's irrefutably incapable, and always has been of being a president for multitudes of reasons. I have no care for whether he apologizes for going to war, but at least recognize that, in some shape or form, he publicly said he's a fuck. He likely doesn't sive two shits, but it's illogical to condemn both sides of the coin; Don't condone one side, just let it go.

And of course he's going to drop some shit on Obama. Regardless of the morality, he's a Republican and, whoa, Obama's a Dem. He knows no one takes him seriously anyway.

[The Postmaster General]

How about those troops? They finally worth something today? :rolleyes:


That's off base and out of line, because he's not praising or showing concern for the troops. THC is criticizing Bush for saying he cares when his actions say other wise. There is no comparison to the Rupert Everett thread, where there he is agreeing that with Everett's stand on troops.

If he had said something like, "How dare Bush put those poor soldiers in danger and say he cares when just this week he was talking about permanent residence."

He didn't offer any insight into his feeling about the troops in that response, only toward Bush's inconsistency in what he says and what he does.

That's my point. He's irrefutably incapable, and always has been of being a president for multitudes of reasons. I have no care for whether he apologizes for going to war, but at least recognize that, in some shape or form, he publicly said he's a fuck. He likely doesn't sive two shits, but it's illogical to condemn both sides of the coin; Don't condone one side, just let it go.


Where did he say anything like that? He says that what he's done has divided people and some see him as being motivated for only war. He then goes on to defend his motivation for war.


And of course he's going to drop some shit on Obama. Regardless of the morality, he's a Republican and, whoa, Obama's a Dem. He knows no one takes him seriously anyway.

The whole point of that whole thing was about him dropping shit on Obama. The point that's being missed is that he played the proverbial swinging watch so well, that you guys are going back and forth about his apology, his condemnation of his self, or whatever you'll bring up and later say you don't care about ---- when he didn't do anything close to any synonym that would end up on the same page as the verbs you guys are throwing around.

Seriously, have you read beyond the title of that article or thread. He didn't say a single thing indicating he regrets anything. The only single thing he said that points to what the writer has inferred as regret is this: “I think that in retrospect I could have used a different tone, a different rhetoric."

COULD HAVE! He COULD HAVE! Does a drunk driver who kills a school bus full of children, in regret, say, "Well, I guess I COULD HAVE not drank and drive."???

That's all he said, and then he goes on for the rest of the article defending what he's done, taking pot-shots at Obama, and praising McCain.

Aside from the title of this article, and what the author has put in their own words, show me a single thing that shows Bush regrets anything other than, "Oh shit, I better play a little bit of rhetoric to cover up my previous rhetoric, or I won't get invited to many White House dinners."

[Homyrrh]

That's off base and out of line, because he's not praising or showing concern for the troops. THC is criticizing Bush for saying he cares when his actions say other wise. There is no comparison to the Rupert Everett thread, where there he is agreeing that with Everett's stand on troops.
I disagree. THe ideological basis of both are contradictory and I feel justified as saying as much.

He says that what he's done has divided people and some see him as being motivated for only war. He then goes on to defend his motivation for war.
There's little reason for him not to defend his cause. He made a mistake in the eyes of most, but is there any benefit to either one, apologzing or nto doing so? He's fucked either way...
The whole point of that whole thing was about him dropping shit on Obama. The point that's being missed is that he played the proverbial swinging watch so well, that you guys are going back and forth about his apology, his condemnation of his self, or whatever you'll bring up and later say you don't care about ---- when he didn't do anything close to any synonym that would end up on the same page as the verbs you guys are throwing around.

Seriously, have you read beyond the title of that article or thread. He didn't say a single thing indicating he regrets anything. The only single thing he said that points to what the writer has inferred as regret is this:

COULD HAVE! He COULD HAVE! Does a drunk driver who kills a school bus full of children, in regret, say, "Well, I guess I COULD HAVE not drank and drive."???

That's all he said, and then he goes on for the rest of the article defending what he's done, taking pot-shots at Obama, and praising McCain.

Aside from the title of this article, and what the author has put in their own words, show me a single thing that shows Bush regrets anything other than, "Oh shit, I better play a little bit of rhetoric to cover up my previous rhetoric, or I won't get invited to many White House dinners."

Honestly not really, which is an obvious err on my part. I still feel that as a general principle it's baffling that regardless of one's affiliation, they would condemn both sides of the same issue. Also, I don't see a lot of evidence of Bush sucking on McCain; took him forever to drop his nomination even well after he was the prseumed nominee, and McCain has said plenty of negative stuff about McCain.

Otherwise, I concede you're entirely correct on that most important issue. I was lost in one argument and didn't realize my ultimate ignorance to the other, that he was trying to shrug the war.

[shoe1985]

There's little reason for him not to defend his cause. He made a mistake in the eyes of most, but is there any benefit to either one, apologzing or nto doing so? He's fucked either way...

Exactly, Bush can't do anything now because he led us in the direction we are in. This blood war for oil has done nothing, but cause more headaches for this country. I thought it was Osama who attacked us? Why are we not doing more to find him? Bush should have concentrated on getting Osama, not putting our soldiers in a country they had no reason to be in.

[The Postmaster General]

I disagree. THe ideological basis of both are contradictory and I feel justified as saying as much.

Well, obviously I just didn't explain it well enough. ;)


There's little reason for him not to defend his cause. He made a mistake in the eyes of most, but is there any benefit to either one, apologzing or nto doing so? He's fucked either way...

I agree totally, but this isn't about me questioning him defending his cause, it's about me questioning the sincerity of his so called 'regret'.

It's just political maneuvering, and good or bad, I don't think he should be given more credit than that.

Honestly not really, which is an obvious err on my part.

Are you sure you read my response to the differences between THC's defense of Rupert and his condemnation of Bush? :p

I still feel that as a general principle it's baffling that regardless of one's affiliation, they would condemn both sides of the same issue. Also, I don't see a lot of evidence of Bush sucking on McCain; took him forever to drop his nomination even well after he was the prseumed nominee, and McCain has said plenty of negative stuff about McCain.

When I say McCain, I mean his party's nominee for the presidency. He's just saying what he's saying because it's the end of the line for him, and he realizes it's time to get friendly again, because he's no longer in a position to say "What I say goes!"

Otherwise, I concede you're entirely correct on that most important issue. I was lost in one argument and didn't realize my ultimate ignorance to the other, that he was trying to shrug the war.

I try not to look at these things as arguments or even debates. To me, this is just a discussion. It's not like anyone really comes out a winner or anything. Sometimes just different people see things differently and IMO the best part of communication is a meeting of the minds, not proverbial bragging rights.

Exactly, Bush can't do anything now because he led us in the direction we are in. This blood war for oil has done nothing, but cause more headaches for this country. I thought it was Osama who attacked us? Why are we not doing more to find him? Bush should have concentrated on getting Osama, not putting our soldiers in a country they had no reason to be in.

Wait!? You mean Osama isn't in Iran? Then what's all this talk... I mean... He's really in Iran right!? :(

[shoe1985]

Wait!? You mean Osama isn't in Iran? Then what's all this talk... I mean... He's really in Iran right!? :(

Give someone time, I am sure there will be a video of Osama and the Iran President popping up, then like any normal American person, they will want war.

[Homyrrh]

Give someone time, I am sure there will be a video of Osama and the Iran President popping up, then like any normal American person, they will want war.
Heh, I'm waiting for that day we found out Saddam was never killed, and instead turns up at some summit with Ahmadinemadjaidmad and Osama in North Korea, aptly called something like "Nukefest '13". It would have games and world cuisine, some music and instead of produce size competitions, it's some ridiculously awkward nuclear arms bazaar.