Spanking - Good or Bad?

[Vong]

I raise this question because two weeks ago the Canadian Senate voted in favour of an anti-spanking bill. (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080618/spanking_senate_080618/20080618/)

I'm not a parent yet, but when I have kids and they do something really bad I won't hesitate to discipline them. I was spanked as a kid and it really kept me in line, and I know it will have the same effect on them as well. Kids learn quickly that pain will come when they do something bad. If you take away spanking from the parents you take away a valuable tool to keep your kids in line.

What do you guys think?

[mel1ssa]

I raise this question because two weeks ago the Canadian Senate voted in favour of an anti-spanking bill. (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080618/spanking_senate_080618/20080618/)

I'm not a parent yet, but when I have kids and they do something really bad I won't hesitate to discipline them. I was spanked as a kid and it really kept me in line, and I know it will have the same effect on them as well. Kids learn quickly that pain will come when they do something bad. If you take away spanking from the parents you take away a valuable tool to keep your kids in line.

What do you guys think?

i think this is a case where the government is rearing its head in a place it doesn't belong. are there not laws that protect innocent victims from assault? how would that law not apply to child abuse? why is there a need for this law?

[shoe1985]

I have always felt it was right to spank a child. I was spanked when I was younger and got into trouble. I never did the things I got in trouble for because I knew it was wrong, and I didn't want to be spanked. Maybe if more people in jail had been spanked instead of getting a free ride in jail, we wouldn't have so many people in jail.

If you are a parent and you beat the crap out of your kid, that is wrong, that is child abuse. Giving your child a slap on the bottom for doing wrong is not abuse. If you are slapping their bottom like crazy for doing something wrong, abuse.

[Orson-Cockart]

I thought this was something more exciting. Between adults, spanking can be lots of fun ;)

As for educating your kids, beatings are a bad tactic. Children already feel opressed for various reasons: lack of money; they don't have their own space; their body is developing and they might feel physically insecure. A kid does something wrong and you give them a clip round the ear so they might not do it again, but that's down to fear and not an understanding of why it was wrong.

When/if i'm a parent, i'll be sitting them down and explaining why they shouldn't do it; worst case scenario i'll ground them or take away their tv or something like that. Alot of it's down to growing up and dealing with transformation into adulthood, so giving them a beating will only add to their problems. If you get them into sports, like boxing, they'll have a way to channel the anger that all teenagers get.

[Scarfather]

I would generally think that anything can be solved without violence once common sense is applied, but I am in full support of smacking around a lot of these stupid kids these days on general principle.

But really, I am against violent discipline, because it's a hilariously inept and Cro-Magnon way of doing things, but it is also entirely up to the parents.

Because discipline ≠ child abuse when you're disciplining it for a reason, see: Spanking Little Billy because he set the neighbor's cat on fire ≠ Spanking Little Billy because he's there and you really need to spank something. Though in the case of the latter, spank is replaced with punch.

[Orson-Cockart]

I have always felt it was right to spank a child. I was spanked when I was younger and got into trouble. I never did the things I got in trouble for because I knew it was wrong, and I didn't want to be spanked. Maybe if more people in jail had been spanked instead of getting a free ride in jail, we wouldn't have so many people in jail.

If you are a parent and you beat the crap out of your kid, that is wrong, that is child abuse. Giving your child a slap on the bottom for doing wrong is not abuse. If you are slapping their bottom like crazy for doing something wrong, abuse.

I know people who've been to jail, their childhoods were one extreme or another. Some were from broken homes, no one caring what they did; others were beaten the shit out of.

Personally i'm against beating children, but I guess it depends on the severity of the "spanking".

[mel1ssa]

this whole issue is a mine field. it's an undefinable issue and absurd that they would insert themselves into a family's home in such a way.

interestingly, i will note that canada is among the few nations with no legal restrictions on abortion.

[shoe1985]

I know people who've been to jail, their childhoods were one extreme or another. Some were from broken homes, no one caring what they did; others were beaten the shit out of.

Personally i'm against beating children, but I guess it depends on the severity of the "spanking".

I am not for beating children. I knew a family that would sit their child down after he did wrong, tell him he did wrong, and not to do it again. Well, 5 minutes later, the kid was doing the same thing again. They sat him down again, it went on for about an hour. Finally, the father pulled the child's pants down, and smacked his bottom. Not hard, but the child felt it, and was embarrassed. This was one of my closet friends growing up, and he now owns a successful business.

We had a classmate who's parents would beat him for doing something wrong, he is now in prison for armed robbery.

My point is that there is a different from giving a spanking and beating a child. I don't believe you should spank a kid right after the bat. You should tell the child to stop, and if they keep it up, give them a spanking on their bottom, but not something to cause harm, but a small sting.

Today's youth is a mess right now because of the lack of discipline. I have seen so many teenagers yelling back at their parents, pushing their parents away from them, and so much more. These kids come from good homes, well families that make a good amount of money, live in a big house, and are spoiled.

[Moviefan1234]

There are other ways to teach your child right or wrong other than hitting them. I'm am completely against physically striking anyone for any reason. It messes kids up for life.

[shoe1985]

There are other ways to teach your child right or wrong other than hitting them. I'm am completely against physically striking anyone for any reason. It messes kids up for life.

Like? Telling your child that it is wrong to do something, then 5 minutes later they are doing what you told them not to do? Talk to them again, they still do it.

[countchocula]

Spanking is a short-term fix. It's very confusing to a child, and it's too easy to misinterpret the tool of disciplinary spanking. Too many parents fail to see the difference between discipline and abuse. There are more effective ways to discipline a child than physical contact. Take away the things they treasure. Force them to sit in a hallway or a "boring" room where they won't be entertained by anything. Make sure that you and your significant other are always on the same page. Make sure that the child gets the exact same response from each parent.

[Criminal Rock]

It effects everyone differently. From a long-term emotional standpoint, some kids can take whoopins, while others cannot. Either way, how parents disciplines their child is a decision that should be left to them and no one else. As long as it's not excessive, either verbally or physically, the government should have no say over the issue.

[shoe1985]

Spanking is a short-term fix. It's very confusing to a child, and it's too easy to misinterpret the tool of disciplinary spanking. Too many parents fail to see the difference between discipline and abuse. There are more effective ways to discipline a child than physical contact. Take away the things they treasure. Force them to sit in a hallway or a "boring" room where they won't be entertained by anything. Make sure that you and your significant other are always on the same page. Make sure that the child gets the exact same response from each parent.

Lets look at the past and the present for a second. In the past, if you were to do something wrong, you would get a spanking, some would get a belt, I find that to be abuse. Back then, children respected seniors, others, and their parents.

Present, parents sit their kids down and talk to them. Kids become teenagers and they respect nobody. Parents take their things away, the child will just find a way to get it back. Lets use a car for an example. If a parent takes away a kid's car for reckless driving or any trouble they caused, the kid will just look for the keys, and take it. What will their parent yell at them?

I am not saying beat the crap out of the kid, but you make them learn. I had it done to me, and I am doing great. I respect everyone. I want respect, they want respect. Today's youth gets everything handed to them because the parents' don't want to have a conflict with them. Instead of teaching the child right and wrong, they are given anything they wanted, given "The Talk," and are on their way.

I do agree that there are many parents who will take it too far, though.

I think Tai Mai Jew gets what I mean the most though from his posting.

[countchocula]

It worked for you, so it should work for everyone? It just comes down to good parenting. Spanking is a non-issue. Good parenting begets well-adjusted children. Bad parenting yields uneven results. I maintain that there are more effective ways to discipline a child that instill the core values you would hope to find in a youth.

[Moviefan1234]

Like? Telling your child that it is wrong to do something, then 5 minutes later they are doing what you told them not to do? Talk to them again, they still do it.

Take something away they like to have every day. TV time, playing with friends, sweets, etc. There are other ways to show and teach your child right from wrong without smacking them around.

[unspoken]

There are other ways to teach your child right or wrong other than hitting them. I'm am completely against physically striking anyone for any reason. It messes kids up for life.

That's a broad generalization that's pretty unreasonable. My parents spanked me when I was a kid. So far, I don't hate them, have never been to jail, and have not developed drug/alcohol addictions because of it. I'm sure many others would say the same thing.

[unspoken]

Lets look at the past and the present for a second. In the past, if you were to do something wrong, you would get a spanking, some would get a belt, I find that to be abuse. Back then, children respected seniors, others, and their parents.

Present, parents sit their kids down and talk to them. Kids become teenagers and they respect nobody. Parents take their things away, the child will just find a way to get it back. Lets use a car for an example. If a parent takes away a kid's car for reckless driving or any trouble they caused, the kid will just look for the keys, and take it. What will their parent yell at them?

I am not saying beat the crap out of the kid, but you make them learn. I had it done to me, and I am doing great. I respect everyone. I want respect, they want respect. Today's youth gets everything handed to them because the parents' don't want to have a conflict with them. Instead of teaching the child right and wrong, they are given anything they wanted, given "The Talk," and are on their way.

I do agree that there are many parents who will take it too far, though.

I think Tai Mai Jew gets what I mean the most though from his posting.


The only addition I could make to this is "I'm an adult, and I don't need the gov't to decide for me how to discipline my kids." Other than that, bravo.


I guess this all doesn't matter anyways. It'll just end up in front of the Supreme Court where 9 unelected people will decide what the law is instead of 300 elected ones (and it's even worse that this originated in the unelected senate). Just like that case in the Quebec Superior Court a couple weeks ago...anyone else hear about that one?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/19/father-court.html

The abbreviated version... father punishes 12 year old daughter by taking away her internet privledges after he discovers she had been posting photos of herself on an internet dating website. She continues to do so from a friend's house, and also gets lippy with her stepmom. So the dad grounds the daughter and forbids her to go on her year-end grade 6 school trip. She (or most likely the ex-wife, who's in a bitter custody battle right now) gets a lawyer and goes to court to overturn the punishment of grounding.

Yes, this is the type of case that gets heard in courts in Canada. I mean, who gives a shit about murderers, thieves, rapists, drug dealers, etc.? We've got priorities to maintain.

[countchocula]

That has very little to do with spanking. In this case, the father is an idiot who should know what his daughter is doing online. He should also know how to contact the website to make sure the profile is deleted. And clearly, there were communication problems leading up to a 12-year-old posting a profile on a dating site.

[electriclite]

I got whoopin's as a kid. I do believe spanking isn't the only form of discipline and am for parents finding what works for their child. But if whoopin's are the choice then as the child grows the usage should taper off.

When a child is the age where they haven't developed verbal communication skills, all they understand is physical stimulation, so discipline comes in that form. As they grow and understand words then you can get more verbal in regards to disciplining them, of course if they ignore that and exhaust the option, well then its time to up the ante.

Teenagers/ Pre-Teens should never be hit, it doesn't work and demonstrates to the teen a lack of control on your part and results in more of a lack of respect for you.

[countchocula]

I disagree, Electriclite. Toddlers only become subordinant when the parents give in to hissy fits. Wee ones need to learn that acting out will not automatically get them what they want. Spanking doesn't accomplish anything. They just scream louder.

[Moviefan1234]

That's a broad generalization that's pretty unreasonable. My parents spanked me when I was a kid. So far, I don't hate them, have never been to jail, and have not developed drug/alcohol addictions because of it. I'm sure many others would say the same thing.

Well not every child can handle the thought of their own parent striking them in force. Back when I was an undergrad we did a case study on physical punishment in parenting. Some of the kids just got haywire after it happens. They grow up with serious social defects, and oftentimes clinical depression and low self esteem. Obviously it's not every situation, but it's a lot higher percentage than the average person thinks.

[shoe1985]

That has very little to do with spanking. In this case, the father is an idiot who should know what his daughter is doing online. He should also know how to contact the website to make sure the profile is deleted. And clearly, there were communication problems leading up to a 12-year-old posting a profile on a dating site.

Well he took a privilege away like moviefan said to do, the child still found away to get around it, he took it further, she still found away around it. If anything is happening, the child is still going to find a way to get his/her way. What lesson is being learned here? Keep trying until you get what you want?

I am not sure if spanking it the right method here, but it sounds like poor parenting early on. Then there is the divorce situation where the child probably feels alone and is going towards the dating site.

Take something away they like to have every day. TV time, playing with friends, sweets, etc. There are other ways to show and teach your child right from wrong without smacking them around.

Like the above statement, the child will get back their item or time with their friends. Also, it isn't smacking them around, it is a slap on the bottom. It is a sting that will go away. My parents would always ask me why I got hit on the bottom, and I would give the reason. Then they would ask if I would do it again, and I would of course say no.

I love my parents and respect them. Most people can say they don't, either slapped or not.

That's a broad generalization that's pretty unreasonable. My parents spanked me when I was a kid. So far, I don't hate them, have never been to jail, and have not developed drug/alcohol addictions because of it. I'm sure many others would say the same thing.

I will say this, there are some kids who do get beat too much and will go on to develop an addiction. But just like those kids get an addiction, then you have someone like Paris Hilton who has no respect for anyone, who probably would have been better off if she had been spanked when she was a child. Of course that is a whole other story, but things could be different for her.


It worked for you, so it should work for everyone? It just comes down to good parenting. Spanking is a non-issue. Good parenting begets well-adjusted children. Bad parenting yields uneven results. I maintain that there are more effective ways to discipline a child that instill the core values you would hope to find in a youth.

I wanted to end my post with this. Spanking is not going to work for everyone. Good parenting is being there for your kids during the best and worst times. Look at America today, we have no real values anymore. Is it because we don't spank our kids anymore? No. If someone gets in trouble today what do we do to them? Most kids will get a slap on the wrist, maybe perform some community service, then the kid is back doing what they did to get in trouble.

We spoil our kids at a young age, and wonder why they grow up thinking they deserve everything? We try to avoid conflicts, so we tell them everything will be ok and go get ice cream. What was solved? I have seen a kid hit another kid with a plastic baseball bat in the stomach. The kid's parent yelled at the kid, then said it will be ok, and made the child apologize to the other kid, and they went and got ice cream. About a week later, the kid got angry at another kid, this time he took a tree branch and nailed another kid in the back. The same parent did the same exact thing. The kid even said he knew what he did.

Now this child comes from a happy home. The parents are both home, and there for the child, but they are all about avoiding conflict. The kid does well in school, has no real issues. They even took him to a shrink, and the shrink said he was fine, he is just being a kid. The shrink even suggested maybe a slap on the bottom would help the child, but the parents said they wouldn't do that.

I haven't seen that family in a while, and I can imagine what the kid has done now.

Does slapping the bottom always work? No, but neither does verbal talking too. Add both together, and they work well together. You don't beat a kid, you give them a little slap on the bottom, and talk to them about what they did. Explain to them why they were slapped. Explain the harsh realities of what could happen if they were arrested. The child needs to know that a slap on the bottom is nothing compared to being raped by some guy named Bubba in jail. Of course you wouldn't say the last part, but you would explain the problems they could face.

[shoe1985]

I disagree, Electriclite. Toddlers only become subordinant when the parents give in to hissy fits. Wee ones need to learn that acting out will not automatically get them what they want. Spanking doesn't accomplish anything. They just scream louder.

Spanking doesn't accomplish anything? We gave you examples of us that yes it does work. I got spanked for doing things I shouldn't have. As soon as it happened, I cried, didn't yell, and I didn't do it again.

I am a college grad, making over $100,000 a year. I have no issues. I respect my parents, and my friends who had similar situations as I, are also doing well.

Like I said before, of course there are some who will encounter issues, but not all of them.

[countchocula]

Well, I'm glad you're making so much money. My point is that the methods I outlined above coupled with good parenting will always trump spanking. Of course, taking away privileges won't work if the parents are idiots to begin with. You still have to earn your child's respect. Having an "I'm superior to you because I'm your parent and you will respect me regardless" attitude doesn't work.

[Tweek]

Spanking is a short-term fix. It's very confusing to a child, and it's too easy to misinterpret the tool of disciplinary spanking. Too many parents fail to see the difference between discipline and abuse. There are more effective ways to discipline a child than physical contact. Take away the things they treasure. Force them to sit in a hallway or a "boring" room where they won't be entertained by anything. Make sure that you and your significant other are always on the same page. Make sure that the child gets the exact same response from each parent.

If psych facilities can do it, why not parents?


I see it as only a last resort. It makes me shudder because of how some people do it (belts and the like) and horrible ways that are unlike what shoe1985 describe.

[shoe1985]

If psych facilities can do it, why not parents?


I see it as only a last resort. It makes me shudder because of how some people do it (belts and the like) and horrible ways that are unlike what shoe1985 describe.

I also grimace when I think of anyone hitting another person with a belt. Hell, I can't think of hitting an animal with a belt.

There is a way to spank your child and make them understand why it happened. You don't just do it and expect the child to understand.

As for the attitude that Count brought up, you are thinking of a whole other idea. My parents did it to make me learn that what I was doing was wrong, and the consequences could be much worse.

People do things differently. Some methods work, some don't.

Why is it that when our grandparents were kids, they got spanked? I am pretty sure they all did when they were younger, and you hear how they respected their parents. In fact, all the older people I have spoken with in my life always say when they see someone talk back to their parents, "We wouldn't do that, we would have gotten a spanking, or worse."

I have never found an older person that has not said that. Yet, all of those people have happy homes, and are doing great.

Now I am sure if I looked hard enough I could find an older person that had the talks. Both methods work, case closed. I doubt we will get anywhere on this topic.

[unspoken]

That has very little to do with spanking. In this case, the father is an idiot who should know what his daughter is doing online. He should also know how to contact the website to make sure the profile is deleted. And clearly, there were communication problems leading up to a 12-year-old posting a profile on a dating site.

That was posted moreso in response to the origin of this bill, which is in Canada. I don't know if you're from Canada, or how well you follow events here if you're not, but it was moreso a rant against unelected officials (Senators for the spanking bill, Judges for the grounding the daughter). The 308 people elected by the people of Canada have pretty much no ability to make laws anymore, as everything they do is modified by these people who have zero accountability to the public whatsoever.

But in response to the case itself, the dad DID do the right thing. He monitored his child's internet usage, and disciplined her when he discovered she was abusing those privledges. When that discipline failed to get through, he took it to the next level. Outside of a stepping in on physical/verbal abuse, nobody should be able to tell him that he can't apply these methods of discipline, as they are far from unreasonable. You call him an idiot... I call him a good parent.

And the fucked up thing about the situation... had the daughter ended up in pieces in a ditch somewhere because of the profile on the adult-oriented site, the same people saying he overreacted would be hammering this guy for not monitoring the girl's internet usage and taking appropriate action if he finds something wrong. It's a complete lose-lose situation for him.

[Damone]

I got spanked as a child and don't see anyhing wrong with it.

Whenever my parents resorted to that form of punishment it was usually because I had already been warned a couple of times and I failed to listen. So whenever I did get spanked, I knew why it was happening. It was never out of the blue and it was never because my mom or dad was having a bad day.

After I became a teenager though, the spankings stopped and they turned to groundings.

[Homyrrh]

I got spanked as a child and don't see anyhing wrong with it.

Whenever my parents resorted to that form of punishment it was usually because I had already been warned a couple of times and I failed to listen. So whenever I did get spanked, I knew why it was happening. It was never out of the blue and it was never because my mom or dad was having a bad day.

After I became a teenager though, the spankings stopped and they turned to groundings.
I'd hope so, or else the state might have a justified interest, Hulk Hogan.

[Damone]

I'd hope so, or else the state might have a justified interest, Hulk Hogan.

Since there seemed (at times) to be a debate between beating a child and spanking one, I tried to clarify and not leave the image of a 17 year old getting an open handed swat on seat.

Although I will admit I'm a little puzzled how the Hulk Hogan reference fits in.

[SpoonMan999]

I'm not going to talk about the morality of spanking because it's rediculous...I was spanked and was a very well behaved child, my brother was not and was a freaking terror...hence the change in heart when I was born.

I will say, that the government only needs to step in when a parent is A) unable to support the children, B) Abusing them, I mean hitting them with the intent of causing harm not a light slap and that's it. Discipline and the job of raising the child should be left to the parents. None of this "You can't say this on that channel." or crap like censoring albums, it's the parent's job to watch and limit what their child listens to or watches...not the governments.

[Jon Lyrik]

Don't have kids. They won't amount to anything and you'll fuck them up.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

I don't really care what other parents do. Spank your kids, I'm sure some of them deserve it.

[The Postmaster General]

There's a difference between beating your child, and spanking. Can we please stop with the hot button terminology?

As a kid, I was hit with whiffle ball bats, had my nose broken, a table leg splintered on my back thigh... That's a beating, and a bit fucked up that I'm mentioning it, and I probably should have gotten therapy for it, but anyway... My elementary school principal and a couple of teachers spanked me. There's a difference, and the spankings did more for me than the beatings I got, as I tended to get in more trouble at home than at school.

That being said, there's only a couple instances where spanking is really worth-while, and that's outward shows of defiance that endanger their lives (running into traffic, etc...) or probably another one I can't think of right now.

The problem is that people don't spank and follow up with discussion. You shouldn't just grab a kid and start spanking. It's a punishment, not something you do because you are pissed off and at your wit's end -- many parents apparently think that's what spankings are for, and that's just fu'd up. You should sit down and tell your kid, "Look, I've told you and told you. Now I'm going to spank you x times and after that you need to think about what happened." This is how they did it in schools when I was a kid, and now that's totally out of the question. You shouldn't spank in public places, because that's just humiliating. Most importantly, you shouldn't spank without discussion - you need to recognize it's a big deal and not just a creative new way to punish. The kid will understand the difference and at some point not want that line crossed.

If you are doing it right, the spanking isn't what is going to make the kid upset, it's the anticipation of being punished in such a way. If you are spanking your kid daily, weekly, monthly, then you probably have done something wrong. Spanking a kid right, and by that I mean giving the full punishment, not just the whupin' - a slight tap will do the trick and get the point across.

As Damone mentioned, there's also a point where it makes no sense to spank, and that's probably puberty years, because with a kid going through all the problems of THAT, you don't need to give them more aggressive tension.

Really, though, a kid should only ever really need to be spanked a handful of times in their life, and by the time they are in middle school, it shouldn't be an issue anymore. I think totally ruling out spanking is a bit fantastical. Especially with young children because they aren't going to understand retroactive punishments, or the inherent intangible dynamics of life-endangering disobedience.

A child who told me he was whipped often would probably give me reason to look closer at the parents, maybe even questioning their integrity. It's none of my business, except that kids need adults looking out for them, and some parents really do suck ass.

[RicochetShaw]

Well not every child can handle the thought of their own parent striking them in force. Back when I was an undergrad we did a case study on physical punishment in parenting. Some of the kids just got haywire after it happens. They grow up with serious social defects, and oftentimes clinical depression and low self esteem. Obviously it's not every situation, but it's a lot higher percentage than the average person thinks.

You did a case study or you read about case study? You're not far removed from undergrad, so I don't know how you'd learn how the kids "grew up" if you did this within the past few years.

[Vong]

Apparently being spanked as a kid can also lead to troubles in bed later in life... (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080301/spanking_study_080301?s_name=&no_ads=)

[Brando @$$ Fat]

DURHAM, N.H. -- New research by a University of New Hampshire domestic abuse expert says spanking children affects their sex lives as adults. Professor Murray Straus concludes that children who are spanked are more likely as adults to coerce partners to have sex, to have unprotected sex and to have masochistic sex.

I don't understand how that's entirely a bad thing. I mean, minus the unprotected/S&M part.

[Damone]

He found a big difference between students who said they'd been hit a lot before age 12 and those who said they hadn't.

I wonder what constitutes, "a lot".

"...and those who said they hadn't."

Hadn't what? Been hit at all or been hit a lot?

[Homyrrh]

Anyone else been beat as a kid? Not just spanking? Stairs? Fists? Bubba mentioend something.

I support spanking under the appropriate cirumstances. Cause/effect, right? Can't just smack Jonny around for stealing cookies, but he isn't going to udnerstand much else other than a smack on the buttocks and a brief explanation of behavioral consequence.