Who is in Guantanamo?

[The Heart Collector]

A CIA analyst warned the Bush administration in 2002 that up to a third of the detainees at Guantanamo Bay may have been imprisoned by mistake, but White House officials ignored the finding and insisted that all were 'enemy combatants' subject to indefinite incarceration.

'There will be no review,' the book quotes Cheney staff director David Addington as saying. 'The president has determined that they are ALL enemy combatants. We are not going to revisit it.'"

"[T]he [CIA] analyst estimated that a full third of the camp's detainees were there by mistake. When told of those findings, the top military commander at Guantanamo at the time, Major Gen. Michael Dunlavey, not only agreed with the assessment but suggested that an even higher percentage of detentions -- up to half -- were in error. Later, an academic study by Seton Hall University Law School concluded that 55 percent of detainees had never engaged in hostile acts against the United States, and only 8 percent had any association with al-Qaeda.



But... but... THEY INVADED OUR COUNTRY!


Yo there's no defense of Guantanamo proceedings.

[Vong]

One mistaken capture: Omar Khadr (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080710/khadr_harper_080710/20080710/)
A Canadian boy who was detained at the age of 15 in Afghanistan because of supposed "evidence" that he and his father had ties with al-Qaeda. It's beyond bullshit how Harper isn't taking stronger action against the U.S. for keeping this boy, which is mainly due to Harper becoming the new "Blair" in being Bush's lapdog. :mad:

[Brando @$$ Fat]

I stand in awe of the shitty way we've run that place. In fucking awe. It's not a prison, it's a clusterfuck. Anyone we find in another country who seems suspicious finds their way in this little clusterfuck. Anyone who's not bothered by the way that place is being run should have their nuts hooked up to a car battery.

[The Postmaster General]

Oh come on, you guys know there's something sexy about a government with walls.

[jolanar]

Oh come on, you guys know there's something sexy about a government with walls.

Cockmeat sandwiches for all?

[Homyrrh]

What about the other 2/3?

[MadsenOMC]

What about the other 2/3?

If they have a case then the other 2/3 should be prosecuted.

[Homyrrh]

If they have a case then the other 2/3 should be prosecuted.
Or else executed.

I don't understand the grounds for which these individuals were detained. They just happened to be innocently chilling around terrorists?

[MadsenOMC]

I don't understand the grounds for which these individuals were detained. They just happened to be innocently chilling around terrorists?

Wrong place at the wrong time. Or turned in by someone they knew/lived close to for a bounty. Or just because they fit a physical profile. All happened, none are hard to believe.

[MadsenOMC]

Having private contractors (who have to justify the money they are being paid) handle serious business like this does not seem like sound policy. And when you tell poor people in Middle Eastern countries that they'll be paid what is to them an obscene amount of money for turning in suspected terrorists, what do you think is going to happen? Also doesn't seem like sound policy. Of course innocent people are going to be imprisoned.

[Homyrrh]

Wrong place at the wrong time. Or turned in by someone they knew/lived close to for a bounty. Or just because they fit a physical profile. All happened, none are hard to believe.
Justified containment, though even I cannot rationalize six/seven years.

[SpoonMan999]

Having private contractors (who have to justify the money they are being paid) handle serious business like this does not seem like sound policy. And when you tell poor people in Middle Eastern countries that they'll be paid what is to them an obscene amount of money for turning in suspected terrorists, what do you think is going to happen? Also doesn't seem like sound policy. Of course innocent people are going to be imprisoned.

As far as private contractors go I'll tell you what my brother told me. Private contractors get paid more than our soldiers do and typically have better gear (Though they do buy their own shit), seems dumb to give them more than our own guys right? However, he noticed mroe often than not when those guys went out not all of them came back. They actually tend to take some of the more dangerous missions. And they typically only arrest or attack targets given to them by the military.

[MadsenOMC]

As far as private contractors go I'll tell you what my brother told me. Private contractors get paid more than our soldiers do and typically have better gear (Though they do buy their own shit), seems dumb to give them more than our own guys right? However, he noticed mroe often than not when those guys went out not all of them came back. They actually tend to take some of the more dangerous missions. And they typically only arrest or attack targets given to them by the military.

I was not suggesting that private contractors don't do anything dangerous. Just that they have an extra incentive to apprehend suspected terrorists. They need to justify those big paychecks. And yes, it is moronic that they get paid more and have better gear than our soldiers. But it is typical of the way this war has been run.

[SpoonMan999]

I was not suggesting that private contractors don't do anything dangerous. Just that they have an extra incentive to apprehend suspected terrorists. They need to justify those big paychecks. And yes, it is moronic that they get paid more and have better gear than our soldiers. But it is typical of the way this war has been run.

You misunderstand, they were taking more losses. They were doing the more dangerous jobs, earning the hell out of those pay checks.

[MadsenOMC]

You misunderstand, they were taking more losses. They were doing the more dangerous jobs, earning the hell out of those pay checks.

No I understand completely. I think our soldiers deserve better pay and gear. And we shouldn't privatize a war the way we did. Bad, bad idea. That money & that gear could have gone to soldiers, and we wouldn't have needed the private contractors.

[Bourne101]

Nevermind.

[Homyrrh]

No I understand completely. I think our soldiers deserve better pay and gear. And we shouldn't privatize a war the way we did. Bad, bad idea. That money & that gear could have gone to soldiers, and we wouldn't have needed the private contractors.
That quote from CoD4..."Remember your rifle was made by the lowest bidder."

[The Heart Collector]

They were doing the more dangerous jobs, earning the hell out of those pay checks.

He testified that of the 36 trucks the firm supplied, 34 did not work. When he confronted Battles, he said Battles responded: "You asked for trucks and we complied with our contract and it is immaterial whether the trucks were operational.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/09/AR2006030902150.html


"earning the hell out of those pay checks".

[SpoonMan999]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/09/AR2006030902150.html


"earning the hell out of those pay checks".

I meant the private contractors that are there to fight.

[The Heart Collector]

"Sept. 18, 2007 | An incident this past weekend in which employees of Blackwater USA, a private security firm that has become controversial for its extensive role in the war in Iraq, allegedly opened fire on and killed several Iraqis seems to be the last straw for Iraqi tolerance of the company. Iraqi government officials have promised action, including but not limited to the suspension or outright revocation of the company's license to operate in Iraq.

But pulling Blackwater's license may be all the Iraqis can do. Should any Iraqis ever seek redress for the deaths of the civilians in a criminal court, they will be out of luck. Because of an order promulgated by the Coalition Provisional Authority, the now-defunct American occupation government, there appears to be almost no chance that the contractors involved would be, or could be, successfully prosecuted in any court in Iraq. CPA Order 17 says private contractors working for the U.S. or coalition governments in Iraq are not subject to Iraqi law. Should any attempt be made to prosecute Blackwater in the United States, meanwhile, it's not clear what law, if any, applies. "

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/09/18/blackwater/

heroes. god bless america.

[Homyrrh]

"Sept. 18, 2007 | An incident this past weekend in which employees of Blackwater USA, a private security firm that has become controversial for its extensive role in the war in Iraq, allegedly opened fire on and killed several Iraqis seems to be the last straw for Iraqi tolerance of the company. Iraqi government officials have promised action, including but not limited to the suspension or outright revocation of the company's license to operate in Iraq.

But pulling Blackwater's license may be all the Iraqis can do. Should any Iraqis ever seek redress for the deaths of the civilians in a criminal court, they will be out of luck. Because of an order promulgated by the Coalition Provisional Authority, the now-defunct American occupation government, there appears to be almost no chance that the contractors involved would be, or could be, successfully prosecuted in any court in Iraq. CPA Order 17 says private contractors working for the U.S. or coalition governments in Iraq are not subject to Iraqi law. Should any attempt be made to prosecute Blackwater in the United States, meanwhile, it's not clear what law, if any, applies. "

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/09/18/blackwater/

heroes. god bless america.
WHOA, SHIT...diplomatic immunity, biznatches!!!!!!!!!1111

The Pentagon and the State Department have repeatedly and publicly decried Blackwater, but that doesn't imply there's clear procedure for processing something like this. After all the crime occured thousands of miles outside US borders...

Besides, it's a private company. How you can satirize American armed forces with an irrelevant example is unfounded.

[The Heart Collector]

Did you even read my post, or Spoonman's posts? We are talking about private contractors. Therefore, information about private contractors is relevant. We are not talking about the American armed forces.

[SpoonMan999]

"Sept. 18, 2007 | An incident this past weekend in which employees of Blackwater USA, a private security firm that has become controversial for its extensive role in the war in Iraq, allegedly opened fire on and killed several Iraqis seems to be the last straw for Iraqi tolerance of the company. Iraqi government officials have promised action, including but not limited to the suspension or outright revocation of the company's license to operate in Iraq.

But pulling Blackwater's license may be all the Iraqis can do. Should any Iraqis ever seek redress for the deaths of the civilians in a criminal court, they will be out of luck. Because of an order promulgated by the Coalition Provisional Authority, the now-defunct American occupation government, there appears to be almost no chance that the contractors involved would be, or could be, successfully prosecuted in any court in Iraq. CPA Order 17 says private contractors working for the U.S. or coalition governments in Iraq are not subject to Iraqi law. Should any attempt be made to prosecute Blackwater in the United States, meanwhile, it's not clear what law, if any, applies. "

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/09/18/blackwater/

heroes. god bless america.

This is an example of one group of them. It's like the soldier who threw the dog off the bridge...does that make all soldiers puppy murderers? No, it most definately does not. In war a lot of horrific things happen and they are inexcusable, but to judge an entire group or organization based on the actions of a few and mock them is also wrong.

[QUENTIN]

A Marine who throws puppies off a cliff is an exceptional to the rule of Marine behavior and not representative of the group. A Blackwater USA contractor being a cowboy who indiscriminately pops off shots at innocent civilians is the rule and very representative of the group. They are known throughout Iraq, even among other defense contractors, as reckless and without much regard for life.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

I'm not trying to defend the contractors since they're a huge waste of taxpayer money, but those guys are under way more pressure than your average soldier. If they end up popping someone on the street it's not necessarily because they're inherently wicked.

[mel1ssa]

I'm not trying to defend the contractors since they're a huge waste of taxpayer money, but those guys are under way more pressure than your average soldier. If they end up popping someone on the street it's not necessarily because they're inherently wicked.

considering the impact of their actions if they do this, i think there's something wrong with our setup.

[SpoonMan999]

A Marine who throws puppies off a cliff is an exceptional to the rule of Marine behavior and not representative of the group. A Blackwater USA contractor being a cowboy who indiscriminately pops off shots at innocent civilians is the rule and very representative of the group. They are known throughout Iraq, even among other defense contractors, as reckless and without much regard for life.

Really? Because, hearing this first hand, I'm hearing soldiers say they respect the hell out of those guys and their enemies are more afraid of Blackwater than they are of our troops. I've heard nothing of them shooting civilians other than in collateral damage and the situation THC posted.

[Homyrrh]

THC--you're right, I read, but misunderstood the psots, especially your last one.

Similiarly, nearly ALL the Blackwater guys are ex-Spec Ops guys, entirely trained by the US Military, since retired from service and looking for a prettier penny (not they're all that pretty anyway). In fact, Blackwater has their HG facility and training grounds just south of the VA border in NC--12 sq. miles--and they actually train smaller foreign nations in an enormous range of tactical, CT, etc. skills. (Supposedly it costs a lot less for Southern Takijamifarca to train their national SWAT team privately).

My point is that, on the whole, they obviously and not only know what they're doing (all employees are recruited), but should have the mental fortitude of any American special forces soldier. Ultimately, the private sector will allow for a greater margin of error--as exemplified in previous events--because of certain discrepancies with ROE, but these guys are just former American soldiers tactically better than the reguars on the ground right now.