POLL: Bush or Nixon? Who will be remembered as the Most Hated President?

[Elgyn]

Somewhere deep in the bowels of Hell, Richard Nixon must be a little bit relieved......because whereas in the past people remembered him as the most despicable President in recent memory......now, he is merely remembered as "a pretty lousy President" in contrast.

So let`s poll! Bush or Nixon, who will be remembered with more contempt?

Also I am throwing William Henry Harrison into the poll.

[Homyrrh]

Harrison served like 40 days, right? Bush just finished his term last month, right? Process of elimination says Nixon...no vote though.

[Elgyn]

Harrison served like 40 days, right?

Yes....BUT, during those 40 days, did he follow through with any of his campaign promises?

[Potter82]

I voted for Bush.

It's strange, I consider myself to be quite left wing and yet I often find myself defending Nixon. The thing is, with the Giant exception of Watergate, he wasn't that bad of a president. He was very pragmatic and quite moderate in many of his policies and was very, very smart - at least twice as intelligent as any leading Republican politician today. As an added bonus, he was hated by Goldwater and his followers, who were the forerunners of the modern GOP. In many respects, Nixon was the last moderate non-ideological Republican president.

Bush on the other hand was so awful mainly because he was such a stubborn ideologue and seemed incapable of re-evaluating any of his positions. Unlike Nixon, who inherited Vietnam from Johnson, Iraq was a war of choice by Bush and looking back, it all seems so damned useless. Sure violence is down in Iraq but what did the US accomplish for all that money and blood? what benefit did the US derive through that war? Sure you could say the same about Vietnam but even though I also think it was a mistake, it was a much more understandable one given the context of the cold war. Not only that but his biggest domestic accomplishment seemed to be helping the wealthy and those at the top to the detriment of everyone else through his reckless tax cuts and ravaging of public services and institutions, something which is coming back to bite the US in the ass, big time.

Nixon at least opened relations with China, pursued a pragmatic approach to the cold war, and hell, even did much to desegregate schools. What positive accomplishments will Bush be remembered for? helping combat AIDS in Africa is the only one I can think of, which is minor compared to his failures.

As for William Henry Harrison, if I remember the Simpsons correctly, didn't he just die really, really early in office? If so, I don't consider him to be horrible, just unlucky.

[Vong]

Only Nixon could go to China...

[Homyrrh]

Yes....BUT, during those 40 days, did he follow through with any of his campaign promises?
Well, he was confined to a bed for that month-and-a-half...

[Brando @$$ Fat]

William Henry Harrison was certainly a dumbass for delivering a long speech in cold weather with no coat. No other president has been killed by his own stupidity.

I voted for Nixon because of what he did to the actual office, not to say that Bush wasn't just awful.

[gayzilla]

Richard Nixon was an arrogant thief with a god complex. It's a far cry from a facist war criminal responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands.

[hasselbrad]

I voted for Bush.

It's strange, I consider myself to be quite left wing and yet I often find myself defending Nixon. The thing is, with the Giant exception of Watergate, he wasn't that bad of a president. He was very pragmatic and quite moderate in many of his policies and was very, very smart - at least twice as intelligent as any leading Republican politician today. As an added bonus, he was hated by Goldwater and his followers, who were the forerunners of the modern GOP. In many respects, Nixon was the last moderate non-ideological Republican president.

Bush on the other hand was so awful mainly because he was such a stubborn ideologue and seemed incapable of re-evaluating any of his positions. Unlike Nixon, who inherited Vietnam from Johnson, Iraq was a war of choice by Bush and looking back, it all seems so damned useless. Sure violence is down in Iraq but what did the US accomplish for all that money and blood? what benefit did the US derive through that war? Sure you could say the same about Vietnam but even though I also think it was a mistake, it was a much more understandable one given the context of the cold war. Not only that but his biggest domestic accomplishment seemed to be helping the wealthy and those at the top to the detriment of everyone else through his reckless tax cuts and ravaging of public services and institutions, something which is coming back to bite the US in the ass, big time.

Nixon at least opened relations with China, pursued a pragmatic approach to the cold war, and hell, even did much to desegregate schools. What positive accomplishments will Bush be remembered for? helping combat AIDS in Africa is the only one I can think of, which is minor compared to his failures.

As for William Henry Harrison, if I remember the Simpsons correctly, didn't he just die really, really early in office? If so, I don't consider him to be horrible, just unlucky.

If it weren't for his paranoia, Nixon might very well have been looked upon as one of our best presidents.

[Homyrrh]

Richard Nixon was an arrogant thief with a god complex. It's a far cry from a facist war criminal responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands.
Harrison was only in office for 40 days ???!?!?!

[Brando @$$ Fat]

Richard Nixon was an arrogant thief with a god complex. It's a far cry from a facist war criminal responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands.

See: Vietnam, Cambodia, Chile. Of those aren't war crimes then I don't know what is.

[gayzilla]

See: Vietnam, Cambodia, Chile. Of those aren't war crimes then I don't know what is.

They may have been. I didnt live through those crimes like I did George W. so I voted for him.

[Scarface98.9]

I wasn't alive during Nixon's reign but when I look back, I see he accomplished a lot but was undone by his own paranoia. Looking back at Bush's years, what did he really accomplish? He dragged us through a pointless war, widened the lower and upper class divide, let our economy have a complete meltdown, and was so damn stubborn that his flaws became magnified. Nixon bombed the crap out of Cambodia and all but he could at least say Vietnam was ended during his term

[Potter82]

I asked a friend of mine who is a fan of Nixon while at the same time a big time Liberal Party supporter and fan of Obama (strange I know) for an example of some of the other positive things Nixon accomplished, here are some of the things he listed;

detente with the soviets, eventual end of the draft, end of the war, formation of the EPA, declared and expanded tons of national parks, formed the office of the management of the budget (OMB), and did more to desegregate schools than either JFK or Johnson

On the whole this is far more than Bush ever accomplished.

In fact, I would even go so far as to say that Nixon was a better president than Ronald Reagan.

Why? well Reagan's most enduring legacies has been trickle-down/voodoo economics and the mantra that "government is not the solution, government is the problem." What have these policies wrought?

Well the first lead to an increased concentration of wealth in the hands of the wealthy and a much larger gap between the rich and poor whereas the second lead to widespread deregulation and cuts across the board in social services and government instiutions. I sincerely believe that Reagan's embrace of these policies (and their embrace by his successors) played a major role in the current financial crisis - & I can't say the same for Nixon's policies.

Oh and like Nixon, the Reagan administration also broke the law but unlike Nixon, it didn't involve wiretapping political opponents but going behind congress' back to sell weapons to Iran (and this was after the Iranian revolution by the way). In my mind, this was far, far more egregious than Watergate ever was.

[Potter82]

I wasn't alive during Nixon's reign but when I look back, I see he accomplished a lot but was undone by his own paranoia. Looking back at Bush's years, what did he really accomplish? He dragged us through a pointless war, widened the lower and upper class divide, let our economy have a complete meltdown, and was so damn stubborn that his flaws became magnified. Nixon bombed the crap out of Cambodia and all but he could at least say Vietnam was ended during his term

That's how I see it as well. Nixon was competent and did have legitimate accomplishments, I can't say the same for Bush. Also, Nixon was actually capable of self-analysis and reflection and changing his mind - again I can't say the same for Bush.

[ArtFactoryRadio]

Why is Harrison even on the list? He was president for a month.

[gayzilla]

I'm still waiting for someone to list something positive George Bush did.

The one thing I can think of is When Hurricane Katrina happened and he called up his brother Jeb (who was then Gov. of nearby Florida) and asked him for all those school buses to jelp rescue the people stranded by the floo...Oh wait, he didn't do that. Bastard didn't do shit.

[Bourne101]

I'm still waiting for someone to list something positive George Bush did.

The capturing of Saddam Hussein.

There you go, something positive that George Bush did.

[gayzilla]

The capturing of Saddam Hussein.

There you go, something positive that George Bush did.

He never would have been on the run if it weren't for GWB, I'm more inclined to call that a push.

[Bourne101]

He never would have been on the run if it weren't for GWB, I'm more inclined to call that a push.

Well... exactly. If Hussein hadn't been on the run, he'd probably still be alive today, wreaking havoc and bringing hell to the lives of many.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

The saddest thing about the Bush presidency is that it's making people look back and think that Richard Nixon wasn't a monster. Nixon was smarter and accomplished more than Bush, but anyone who thinks that he would've been a good president if it hadn't been for Watergate should really research him more thoroughly.

[gayzilla]

Well... exactly. If Hussein hadn't been on the run, he'd probably still be alive today, wreaking havoc and bringing hell to the lives of many.

Even the most conservative estimates say The war in Iraq has killed as many civilians in 6 years as Hussein has during his entire reign. So I guess you could say George Bush is a more efficient murderer of innocent Iraqi civilians.

[Bourne101]

I'm not arguing that at all, you are certainly right. I'm just saying that regardless of the reasoning for going into Iraq or the terrible things that came with it, the US had a chance to capture that evil bastard, and they did. It was a good thing that Saddam Hussein was captured and eventually killed. I give Bush credit for capitalizing on that opportunity. That doesn't mean that the Iraq war was a good thing or that I support it, I'm just saying that in my opinion, the capturing of Saddam Hussein was a very good thing.

[Elgyn]

I'm not arguing that at all, you are certainly right. I'm just saying that regardless of the reasoning for going into Iraq or the terrible things that came with it, the US had a chance to capture that evil bastard, and they did. It was a good thing that Saddam Hussein was captured and eventually killed. I give Bush credit for capitalizing on that opportunity. That doesn't mean that the Iraq war was a good thing or that I support it, I'm just saying that in my opinion, the capturing of Saddam Hussein was a very good thing.


Okay.....but.....how many countries (particularly in that section of the world) are ruled by murderous despots?
Sad but true.
Should the U.S. military begin invading every single one of those countries?
Who makes that decision?

Oh, wait: did i say "invade"?
I meant to say "bring freedom".

[Bourne101]

Again, I'm not saying invading Iraq or any country for that matter is a good thing. The sole purpose of going into Iraq was not just to capture Saddam Hussein. They would have gone in if they had planned to capture him or not. But while they were in there, they had the chance to capture him, they capitalized on that opportunity, and that son of a bitch is dead. End of story.

[Elgyn]

The sole purpose of going into Iraq was not just to capture Saddam Hussein.

What was the reason.


They would have gone in if they had planned to capture him or not.

That`s comforting.

But while they were in there, they had the chance to capture him, they capitalized on that opportunity, and that son of a bitch is dead. End of story.

Ehhhhh.......the ends are not really justifing the means here buddy, I`m sorry.

[Bourne101]

What was the reason.

Everyone has their own opinion on this so I'm not going to throw out simply what I believe. Through the opinions of others though, the consensus usually is the supposed WMDs, oil, trying to spread democracy, capturing Saddam Hussein, yadda, yadda, yadda. I'm sure you need the drill. There's no need for me to really explain this.

Ehhhhh.......the ends are not really justifing the means here buddy, I`m sorry.

Come on man, I've pretty much spelled it out for you. The US fucked up big time going into Iraq. It was a mistake, there were so many flaws in the whole thing, as I'm sure you very well know. But they were in Iraq, they weren't going to leave soon, they had an opportunity to catch Saddam Hussein, they might as well have done it. They did it, he's dead, I'm glad that he is dead.

[Elgyn]

The US fucked up big time going into Iraq. It was a mistake, there were so many flaws in the whole thing, as I'm sure you very well know.

But they were in Iraq, they weren't going to leave soon, they had an opportunity to catch Saddam Hussein, they might as well have done it. They did it, he's dead, I'm glad that he is dead.

Okay okay....I`m glad he`s dead too.



But..I mean.....it would almost be like hiring an exterminator to catch a rat lose in your house, and hours later the entire fucking house is destroyed but the guy comes out carrying a dead rat by the tail and says cheerfully: "Hey look guys, I got the rat"!

[Bourne101]

But..I mean.....it would almost be like hiring an exterminator to catch a rat lose in your house, and hours later the entire fucking house is destroyed but the guy comes out carrying a dead rat by the tail and says cheerfully: "Hey look guys, I got the rat"!

Haha, nice analogy. :D

[Scarface98.9]

I'm still waiting for someone to list something positive George Bush did.

He gave comedians 8 years of material to work with?

[someguy]

I was just going to post a response to Bourne but Elgyn summed up what I was going to say with his dead rat example.

This might be a better way to phrase the question: Name one positive thing George W. Bush did that did not require or cause any negative effects/outcomes directly or indirectly in order to achieve it.

[Homyrrh]

Okay okay....I`m glad he`s dead too.



But..I mean.....it would almost be like hiring an exterminator to catch a rat lose in your house, and hours later the entire fucking house is destroyed but the guy comes out carrying a dead rat by the tail and says cheerfully: "Hey look guys, I got the rat"!
What if they built a bigger, better house and decided to stick around with some free wait staff...and no rats?

[Elgyn]

What if they built a bigger, better house and decided to stick around with some free wait staff...and no rats?



This would be applicable if we were talking about, say, Afghanistan, or if Iraq was more of an impoverished nation in dire need of rebuilding.

But that really wasn`t the case with Iraq.
Iraq was a fairly modernized, funtioning country. It`s not like the majority of people were living in stone huts or something.

Of course this doesn`t change the fact that Saddam was a murderous despot. I`m just saying I don`t really think the "But we rebuilt thier country!" argument is applicable here.

[Brando @$$ Fat]

HIV/AIDS programs in Africa is apparently what most people are praising him for. That's probably more of a Bono accomplishment than a Bush one, but I say we give it to him anyway because we're going to have to explain to our grandchildren one day how such a bad president warranted two terms.

[Jon Lyrik]

Iraq had an economy better than some lower-tier European countries before their war with Iran.

Nixon, though, god. I don't think anyone can top him in American eyes because he was just the guy that made the entire nation cynical and suspicious of those in power.

[The Heart Collector]

I'm not arguing that at all, you are certainly right. I'm just saying that regardless of the reasoning for going into Iraq or the terrible things that came with it, the US had a chance to capture that evil bastard, and they did. It was a good thing that Saddam Hussein was captured and eventually killed. I give Bush credit for capitalizing on that opportunity. That doesn't mean that the Iraq war was a good thing or that I support it, I'm just saying that in my opinion, the capturing of Saddam Hussein was a very good thing.

Looked at in a vacuum, then yes, removing Saddam is "good".

Looked at it in reality, where there are actually two options (keeping him in power, or taking him down but ruining the country because of abject stupidity), clearly keeping him in power is the better option.

[Preston_79]

Looked at in a vacuum, then yes, removing Saddam is "good".

Looked at it in reality, where there are actually two options (keeping him in power, or taking him down but ruining the country because of abject stupidity), clearly keeping him in power is the better option.


Eh...I don't hate any of the presidents from the past. It's too early for me to clarify how I feel about Bush despite his many errors.