Shut the fuck up about subtitles and dubbing already!

[Brendan M.]

You know who you are. Every thread on this website regarding a foreign horror film has been completely fucked over because a few of the members can't seem to keep themselves from debating over this goddamn subject and all discussions about the actual movie are ignored along with any attempt at telling you guys to shut the fuck up. Believe it or not, some people actually want to talk about those movies.


Here, I made this thread for you. If you want to continue this discussion about dubbing vs subtitles, do it here and leave the Let the right one In and French Horror threads alone!

[Cronos]

Subtitles > dubbing any day.

[jdparker]

Subtitles > dubbing any day.

+1

[outsyder]

Subtitles > dubbing any day.

This

[ericdraven]

oh god, I hope LordSimen doesn't see this thread.

[Il_Duce]

I teased my dad about this Wednesday night. We were at my aunt's house and I had Nightwatch playing in the other room on IFC (but since I was DVR'ing it at his house, I wasn't watching it all the way through.) Anyway, we're talking and hearing the screaming and stuff coming from the TV. One of them asked, "What's that."

I said,"Oh, this Russian flick."

He said, "I don't get why people would watch something that's not in English that you have to read."

I said, jokingly, "That's because we're of higher intelligence than you hillbillies."

He rolled his eyes and my aunt laughed.

I used to work in a Wal-Mart and was recommending Action flicks to this guy, and showed him the movie Hard Boiled. His response was, "Is that in English, because I hate having to read movies."

[Mr.HyDe807]

If people dont like subtitles, fine....whatever. The thing that annoys me is when i watch a movie from another country and its deemed a "weird" movie. This is what i hear from when i watch these movies in my house, and it annoys me to no end.

It's not a fucking weird movie, its a movie in another language....yes, there are films made not just in America!

[Sad man]

Dubbing is for morons. The voice is part of the actor's performance.

[ericdraven]

I teased my dad about this Wednesday night. We were at my aunt's house and I had Nightwatch playing in the other room on IFC (but since I was DVR'ing it at his house, I wasn't watching it all the way through.) Anyway, we're talking and hearing the screaming and stuff coming from the TV. One of them asked, "What's that."

I said,"Oh, this Russian flick."

He said, "I don't get why people would watch something that's not in English that you have to read."

I said, jokingly, "That's because we're of higher intelligence than you hillbillies."

He rolled his eyes and my aunt laughed.

I used to work in a Wal-Mart and was recommending Action flicks to this guy, and showed him the movie Hard Boiled. His response was, "Is that in English, because I hate having to read movies."


People are fucking lazy in this country.

[Tweek]

If people dont like subtitles, fine....whatever. The thing that annoys me is when i watch a movie from another country and its deemed a "weird" movie. This is what i hear from when i watch these movies in my house, and it annoys me to no end.

It's not a fucking weird movie, its a movie in another language....yes, there are films made not just in America!

Haha! I hate that too. When I lived with people the living room would empty when I'd try to watch a movie older than 1990 or something foreign. And both types were described as weird movies.

[adamjohnson]

I cant believe he seriously expects us to believe all the lame reasons he supplied. I've never seen a mod be such an obvious troll.

[MightyCelestial]

See,
this is why I hate people.

[Brendan M.]

I cant believe he seriously expects us to believe all the lame reasons he supplied. I've never seen a mod be such an obvious troll.

Yeah, but you're one of the people too that I made this thread for. There was no need to continue derailing those threads. All it took was for one of you to give the other guy the last word and forget about it.

Instead of derailing anymore, just debate it all here.

[someguy]

Dubbing is for morons. The voice is part of the actor's performance.

Don't you know that you can't understand a single thing if you don't know the language? No inflection, emotion, etc. so it doesn't matter!

[sbunn10]

haha.. I expect Someguy's post is a joke.

[Smarmy Douche]

I want you to stop posting about something so much that I'm going to go ahead and give you a new arena practically inviting you to continue posting about it.

[Brendan M.]

I want you to stop posting about something so much that I'm going to go ahead and give you a new arena practically inviting you to continue posting about it.

Better to have them post it here in a thread dedicated to the subject rather than the threads for the movies they had derailed.

[Smarmy Douche]

Better to have them post it here in a thread dedicated to the subject rather than the threads for the movies they had derailed.

True enough.

[poopontheshoes7]

I personally hate dubbing too. It seems lazy and cheapens the impact of the story and dialogue GREATLY. A deadly serious film like Let the Right One In is turned into an unintentionally hilarious film because of dubbing.

[CyclicNightmare]

http://www.tkshare.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/0550331qg.jpg

[jeo4]

Good answer, Cyclic. :D

[Simple Song]

Subtitles are fine with me. Even if a foreign movie is dubbed, I'm more likely to turn the subtitles on than leave them off. Since translation is not often literal, doing this seems to enhance my perspective of the story.

[adamjohnson]

Yeah, but you're one of the people too that I made this thread for. There was no need to continue derailing those threads. All it took was for one of you to give the other guy the last word and forget about it.

Instead of derailing anymore, just debate it all here.

Oh I know but when a MOD on a movie site is saying that the name "Eli" translates to "I'm trapped" just because he doesnt know the language, is gonna push my buttons.

[Tony_Montana]

I'm a subtitles guy generally, unless it's a 70's genre flick (martial arts, giallo) or Jackie Chan. Then it's sorta part of the experience.

[zombievictim]

Dubbing is for morons.

You = Win

[Reigh Kaufman]

You = Win

Yup.

[Pentangeli]

Some dubbed films work better for it. Mostly spaghetti westerns.

But mostly dubbing destroys a film. For a long while the only copy of Hard-Boiled I could get was the dubbed VHS. Then recently I got hold of a copy with the original-language, subtitled in English, and it was a much better experience.

[dellamorte dellamore]

Anime is better when it's dubbed , it's the only way i like it .

Cheap Italian horror from the 70s and 80s , or recent ones that seem like they were made in that time period , are a must dubbed .

Anything French , no matter what genre , has to be in the original language . Somehow dubbing doesn't seem to lend itself too kindly when the language was originally French . Plus , everything sounds cool in that language .

Spanish language , Dutch , live action Asian films , have to be seen in their own respective languages .

I prefer to see everything in it's original language , save for some aforementioned exceptions , but i couldn't get all elitist and think that the film will be ruined for someone that only prefers a dubbed version of a foreign language film , how the hell do i know what they experience when they see a film dubbed as opposed to subtitled .

I love to hear different languages , and i do agree , for me , certain aspects of a film can only be conveyed in the original language .

[someguy]

Dubbing is for morons.

Don't make such broad general insults to people who like dubbing, you filthy elitist. All of you are elitists!

[Venus Venusia]

I LOVE subtitles. Even if the movie is in English, I will put on subtitles in case I miss out on something someone says. *shrugs*

And yes, the dubbing for Let the Right One In was downright hilarious. One night I watched it and kept switching back and forth between the audio to hear the differences.

[LordSimen]

Whatever you prefer, you prefer. It doesn't matter which choice you make, you're making a concession of some kind and it just matters which concession doesn't bother you or which you'd rather not make.

Don't let those obsessed with their own elitism bother you. If you like dubbed movies, watch dubbed movies. If you like subtitled movies, watch subtitled movies as there's nothing wrong with watching or liking either.

[Badbird]

I prefer silent movies.

[adamjohnson]

Whatever you prefer, you prefer. It doesn't matter which choice you make, you're making a concession of some kind and it just matters which concession doesn't bother you or which you'd rather not make.



Im not making a concession when I watch a film with subtitles, because Im still getting the movie's full intended experience. You can call it elitism all you want, I dont care, but youre making a concession when you watch a dubbed film.

Plain and simple.

[MightyCelestial]

I prefer silent movies.

I turn the volume down all the way for every one that I watch.

[LordSimen]

Im not making a concession when I watch a film with subtitles, because Im still getting the movie's full intended experience. You can call it elitism all you want, I dont care, but youre making a concession when you watch a dubbed film.

Plain and simple.

That is your opinion and preference, not mine and I call it elitism the moment you choose to translate your opinion to "you're a moron." The movie's full intended experience was to be heard, not read. By your logic, I'm not making any concessions either.

[Donnie_Darko]

Subtitles > dubbing any day.

Only way to go.

I just hate hearing, "Oh, I won't watch that because it's subtitled." While I will wait and track down a subbed version of a flick before I see it, if it's the ONLY way I can watch it, I'll begrudgingly watch dubbed. Where most sub haters will just avoid it and await the inevitable US remake.

For me, dubbing takes all the emotion and subtext out of a film. No matter how well the dubbing is done, it always feels flat and mechanical, and that's understandable. It usually comes down to "sync" over "feel".

[adamjohnson]

That is your opinion and preference, not mine and I call it elitism the moment you choose to translate your opinion to "you're a moron." The movie's full intended experience was to be heard, not read. By your logic, I'm not making any concessions either.

Yeah its meant to be heard IN THE ORIGINAL ACTORS VOICES.
And I wouldnt call you a moron if your opinion wasnt moronic.

[Sad man]

Subtitles equal elitism? LOL. My guess is that all of us are here because we love movies, right? Well, if you do love movies then you have to know that dubbing takes away from the whole experience. Not only it changes the actors' performances completely but it also affects the sound track because they are adding a new one to it and reducing or taking away completely part of another one. This results in some of the sounds getting fucked up, some even destroyed. So, excuse me for thinking that a "movie fan" who likes dubbing is a moron, he/she is in my eyes. I'm sorry if I offend you for thinking that. I understand if you are watching a '70 spaghetti western or a martial acts movie, the dubbing ended up being part of the fun of those kind of movies. But on regular films I think dubbing is completely unacceptable.

[LordSimen]

Yeah its meant to be heard IN THE ORIGINAL ACTORS VOICES.


Except we can't speak that language, so we're not hearing the movie at all. Just inflections.

Once again, it doesn't matter. Just what you prefer. Stop trying to PUSH your preference on others.

[SAI]

Honestly guys, didn't we already exhaust this argument several times over? Nobody is changing anybody else's mind here.

[adamjohnson]

Except we can't speak that language, so we're not hearing the movie at all. Just inflections.

Once again, it doesn't matter. Just what you prefer. Stop trying to PUSH your preference on others.

We are hearing the movie. We are hearing the performance. We are hearing the result of the director's direction. We are hearing the editor's editing. We are hearing the sound design and the score. WE are hearing the film as originally intended.

You're hearing... some dude crammed in a storage closet at Funimation studios, reading lines that dont match the script.

Talking to you is a little less interesting than talking to a tree or my cat. I wish you;d just put me on your ignore list already, lest I go to Mike and BEG him to allow me to block a mod.

[LordSimen]

We are hearing the movie. We are hearing the performance.


Which you cannot understand as you don't speak the language, so you're just hearing inflections and sounds. Not words, as was intended by the film makers the moment they chose to have dialogue within the film.


Talking to you is a little less interesting than talking to a tree or my cat. I wish you;d just put me on your ignore list already, lest I go to Mike and BEG him to allow me to block a mod.

You chose to respond to me, Adam. It's not my fault you wish to continue this argument.

[Shinigami]

Even though art is subjective not every opinion or consensus of it should be dismissed as preference. It's counterproductive for movie fans to be roadblocked with the reminder that their opinion is just their opinion, just as it would be for philosophers to remind themselves over and over that when you get right down to it life is life and death is death and they're just complicating things. The more you hear its dismissing axiom the more irritating it sounds imo. It's not so unreasonably elitist to have guidelines about what is right and what is wrong in cinema fandom, right?
But apparently this argument has been going on a long and pointless time. So I'm speaking out of turn.

Which you cannot understand as you don't speak the language, so you're just hearing inflections and sounds. Not words, as was intended by the film makers the moment they chose to have dialogue within the film.

^^
I was getting myself geared up for a rant until I came across this. It's a very valid point. I'm with adamjohnson on the idea that subs are better than dubs, but you don't actually comprehend the skill or an actor just by their nonsense inflections do you? I can't tell you how many times I've taken a foreign actor's performance to be powerful and emotional, only to find out later from people who speak the language (critics, audiences) that he/she was being over dramatic and heavy handed, aka I haven't the foggiest clue how to accurately judge a performance I don't understand.

Maybe what it comes down to is that most dubs suck ass, so it's a lot more tolerable for some people to read bullshit mistranslations than hear it spoken aloud. :D I'm a big anime watcher and their dubs are almost always terrible. I don't think I have any better understanding of the shows one way or another, but it's a lot more plausible to have Japanese voices babbling on about honor and dignity and sword fighting and eastern philosophies than GI Joe sounding Americans talking about the way of Buddha. :rolleyes:

[LordSimen]

I was getting myself geared up for a rant until I came across this. It's a very valid point. I'm with adamjohnson on the idea that subs are better than dubs, but you don't actually comprehend the skill or an actor just by their nonsense inflections do you? I can't tell you how many times I've taken a foreign actor's performance to be powerful and emotional, only to find out later from people who speak the language (critics, audiences) that he/she was being over dramatic and heavy handed, aka I haven't the foggiest clue how to accurately judge a performance I don't understand.



This has been exactly my point from the very beginning and I'm glad someone else has brought it up.


Look guys, I don't know why everyone seems to act as if I'm trying to tell them what to like or not like. I'm not. I'm saying that you should like whatever you do like and that you aren't a "moron" just because you prefer one over the other. Both have their concessions, both have their ups, both have their downs. It just depends upon how those elements weigh on the importance scale for you, yourself, which one you will like better. I'm not sure how much more clearly I can post that.

[adamjohnson]

This has been exactly my point from the very beginning and I'm glad someone else has brought it up.


Look guys, I don't know why everyone seems to act as if I'm trying to tell them what to like or not like. I'm not. I'm saying that you should like whatever you do like and that you aren't a "moron" just because you prefer one over the other. Both have their concessions, both have their ups, both have their downs. It just depends upon how those elements weigh on the importance scale for you, yourself, which one you will like better. I'm not sure how much more clearly I can post that.


Subtitles dont have a concession.

[LordSimen]

If you wish and choose to believe that, that's fine. Whatever. It's obvious that you're never going to change your mind.

But in no way does that justify demeaning, belittling and personally insulting those who don't share your personal preference.

[adamjohnson]

If you wish and choose to believe that, that's fine. Whatever. It's obvious that you're never going to change your mind.

But in no way does that justify demeaning, belittling and personally insulting those who don't share your personal preference.

Nor does it justify purposefully exhibiting troll-like behavior from a mod.

[LordSimen]

If you consider defending those who are being called ignorant morons for their personal preferences the act of a troll, then I could see where you came to that conclusion.

[adamjohnson]

If you consider defending those who are being called ignorant morons for their personal preferences the act of a troll, then I could see where you came to that conclusion.

No, it's more along the lines of clasping your hands over your ears and shouting "I cant hear you!"

And PS, Simen, I'm not belittling anyone but you. If you truly felt it was a preference, shrugged your shoulders and said "thats just what I like" no one would have a problem with you. Instead, you turn off your common sense meter and say "I don't know if the name "Eli" translates to "I'm trapped" because I dont speak the language." That's just plain dense, inciteful and hard headed. 4 year olds aren't that stupid, and you're only doing it to be a troll.

[John Galt]

This thread is hilarious; but I need subtitles. I can barely understand you guys.

[LordSimen]

No, it's more along the lines of clasping your hands over your ears and shouting "I cant hear you!"


Hmm... Sounds familiar...

Subtitles dont have a concession.

Ah yes, now I remember.



And PS, Simen, I'm not belittling anyone but you. If you truly felt it was a preference, shrugged your shoulders and said "thats just what I like" no one would have a problem with you. Instead, you turn off your common sense meter and say "I don't know if the name "Eli" translates to "I'm trapped" because I dont speak the language." That's just plain dense, inciteful and hard headed. 4 year olds aren't that stupid, and you're only doing it to be a troll.

I like how, "you don't agree with me" translates to "you're stupid, and a troll." Wonderful.

Look, let's keep the personal shit off the board and let this thread be about what it was originally intended, subtitles and dubbing.

[DaMovieMan]

Subtitles over dubs, naturally. The way it was originally meant is the only way to understand and appreciate it.

[Reigh Kaufman]

I like how, "you don't agree with me" translates to "you're stupid, and a troll." Wonderful.

You need this post dubbed. The translation I read said: "Why do you insist on baiting people, sir? I've asked you to block me so that we can avoid these heated exchanges, but even with your moderator status you would rather refuse me that basic decency in order to further enrage me".

Just block him, Simen. You are acting very Zen, but it's still passive-aggressive Schmoe-baiting.

Any other Schmoe would have blocked him by now; to do so would be to deny you one of life's real pleasures, though, wouldn't it?

[adamjohnson]

I like how, "you don't agree with me" translates to "you're stupid, and a troll." Wonderful.

Look, keep the personal shit to PMs and let this thread be about what it was originally intended, subtitles and dubbing.

Actually, as I said, it's not about agreeing with you anymore, in fact it never was. Its calling out your behavior in the forums as of late. I dont care if you like subtitles, dude, but you're sitting there saying "These are the reasons why subtitles are stupid" and we are all saying "Well, those reasons are completely illogical and make no sense. Here's why.." Yet, you still continue to say "Well, these are the reasons why they suck." And we continue to tell you "Those dont bother us. Here's why..." Etc Etc. But you continously ignore the point.

[CriticalBill6966]

Subtitles > dubbing any day.

This!!!

[Shinigami]

Subtitles dont have a concession.


I know several anime fans who actually prefer the horrible dubs over subtitles because they are artists and cartoonists themselves, and would rather deal with dubs than miss a moment of the animation by distracting their eyes to read. Having to read in a movie that wasn't intended to be read is a concession. A very mild one, but then isn't the bread and butter of this discussion mild, almost unnoticeable cons?

btw does anybody knows if either dubs or subs are becoming more popular? I know that subtitles didn't used to be released in American theaters and they are know, but beyond that I've no idea if one or the other is becoming the preferred compromise for audiences.

[adamjohnson]

Look, let's keep the personal shit off the board and let this thread be about what it was originally intended, subtitles and dubbing.

And Im pretty sure this IS why this thread was made.

[LordSimen]

Actually, as I said, it's not about agreeing with you anymore, in fact it never was. Its calling out your behavior in the forums as of late. I dont care if you like subtitles, dude, but you're sitting there saying "These are the reasons why subtitles are stupid" and we are all saying "Well, those reasons are completely illogical and make no sense. Here's why.." Yet, you still continue to say "Well, these are the reasons why they suck." And we continue to tell you "Those dont bother us. Here's why..." Etc Etc. But you continously ignore the point.

I'm not sure how many times I can say that it all depends upon what you personally prefer and nothing more. I'm not telling you to like dubbing, or to hate subtitles. I'm telling giving you multiple, completely valid reasons why some of us prefer dubbed movies to subtitles. I'm saying it's fine to like both.

Telling me that the things I have a problem with don't bother you is one thing, but saying those things don't exist entirely- When clearly, they do- is a completely different matter. As they do pose problems for some of us so called "ignorant morons." You imply that I'm a wall, that talking to me will get you nowhere. Well, I suggest you look back at your own statements. You've refused to budge on the idea that anyone is anything but a moron if they don't conform to your view, you've refused to accept any logical argument poised your way as to how you're not getting the full experience of a movie when watching subtitles and you refuse to even give the other side the slightest bit of understanding. I may be a kettle, but you're clearly a pot.

[adamjohnson]

I'm not sure how many times I can say that it all depends upon what you personally prefer and nothing more. I'm not telling you to like dubbing, or to hate subtitles. I'm telling giving you multiple, completely valid reasons why some of us prefer dubbed movies to subtitles. I'm saying it's fine to like both.

Telling me that the things you have a problem with don't bother you are one thing, but saying those things don't exist entirely- When clearly, they do. As they do pose problems for some of us so called "ignorant morons." You say I'm a wall, that talking to me will get you nowhere. Well, I suggest you look back at your own statements. You've refused to budge on the idea that anyone is anything but a moron if they don't conform to your view, you've refused to accept any logical argument poised your way as to how you're not getting the full experience of a movie when watching subtitles and you refuse to even give the other side the slightest bit of understanding. I may be a kettle, but you're clearly a pot.
How do you not understand that I'm saying FOR ME there are no concessions. If I went out boasting, saying "Subtitles dont bother US, WE dont see subtitles" then yeah, you have a point.

But no one's generalizing. Whats basically happening is I'm saying that "the things you listed don't bother me, that I, in fact, dont even notice them." And your retort is simply, "yes they must, because they bother ME."

And Im not saying everyone is a moron who doesnt agree with me. Im saying you're a moron, because your reasons are moronic. There's a difference.

[LordSimen]

But no one's generalizing. Whats basically happening is I'm saying that "the things you listed don't bother me, that I, in fact, dont even notice them." And your retort is simply, "yes they must, because they bother ME."

No, you're clearly saying "these things don't exist and since they don't, you're a moron" and my retort is "Yes, they do exist and they do bother me, as well as others. We're not morons because of our personal preference."

[adamjohnson]

No, you're clearly saying "these things don't exist and since they don't, you're a moron" and my retort is "Yes, they do exist and they do bother me, as well as others. We're not morons because of our personal preference."

Now you're telling me what I'm saying.

Just block me dude.

[Reigh Kaufman]

Now you're telling me what I'm saying.

Just block me dude.


He has asked you repeatedly, Simen.

[LordSimen]

Now you're telling me what I'm saying.


Pot and kettle, Adam. Pot and kettle.

And I don't block schmoes. I don't believe moderators should, as they can't do their job correctly if a schmoe is blocked. If you have a problem with me, just use that good old fashioned will power of your own and ignore me or take it up somewhere else.

Let's keep this thread the way it was originally intended.

[adamjohnson]

Pot and kettle, Adam. Pot and kettle.

And I don't block schmoes. I don't believe moderators should, as they can't do their job correctly if a schmoe is blocked. If you have a problem with me, just use that good old fashioned will power of your own and ignore me or take it up somewhere else.

Let's keep this thread the way it was originally intended.

http://gallery.nofactzone.net/albums/userpics/normal_headdesk.jpg

[dellamorte dellamore]

This thread is hilarious; but I need subtitles. I can barely understand you guys.

This may be another example where dubbing may enhance the experience