Film schools (very important please help)

[imagemaker]

I am trying to decide on what film school to go to. I am technically set up to go to GA state which has a small film program but I am having doubts about how far it will get me. I was wondering if anyone had any insight. This is what I want out of the school:
1. I dont want to attend a school and not touch my major study for 2 years (like GA state).
2. I do not want to take too many classes that have nothing to do with film or the business of film such as math (I SUCK at math!)
3. I want to attend a school that when I graduate I will have some of my OWN films that are completely mine to keep and show off. In other words I do not want to be on a team where it's not my film and I don't get to keep the work.
4. I do not want to spend like $25,000 a year.
5. I want the school to be in a place where the industry is so that i can get an internship and have a good place to show my work.
6. I do not want to only learn about being a grip and those technical jobs although i do need to learn all of it I do want to learn every aspect of Directing since that is my passion.
I know a lot of people will say don't go just make a movie, trust me I have thought this through ,and I have already decided that I want film school for the knowledge, experience, the contacts, and to make a movie or 2 I can show off. because although I am making movies now I do not have access to the equipment that film schools do. And Im sure I have A LOT to learn about the technical aspects of filmmaking and can always learn more about everything else.

Thanks in advance for the feedback. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[RavenBlade]

Imagemaker, i hear you completely,
so without further ado, here are some, well only two film schools, strictly for film and the arts.

One is in New York, and is very hands on,
i plan to go there, if the other one in Florida falls through.
The differance between both, are NY is intensive, leaving to little or no time for yourself, where Florida, is a little bit laid back.
As for the money aspects, Ny doesn't really take Government Loans per-sey, where Florida, does. Housing you will need to apply for that, but from what i read, you will atleast need 2 months housing rent, before recieveing your first check.

The links now.....

New York....www.nyfa.com

Florida...www.fullsail.com

Give them a try.

Oh, and in case you didn't know, you don't have to pay back a Government Loan, atleast i think it's the loan, but i do know it starts with Government.

Good Luck, and maybe we will run into each other at one or the other.

Hope this helps.

Ciao

[Scarface98.9]

if u go to film school, don't expect to be able to get a quick job. a person who doesn't go to film school has as much a chance as someone who does. only FS teach u about dealing w/ big crews, big budgets, and such, but filmmakers like us don't have access to all that

[Narrator]

but we will one day scarface, one day

[imagemaker]

I have looked very closely into fullsail and have talked to many alumni and have come to the conclusion that it is not worth the $$. When I leave there I will not have my own film to show, it is for more technical aspects of filmmaking and no directing, I need more directing focus. It is also VERY expensive. I have been really looking into LA film school and it seems to be better, anyone know about it or have anywhere else? Please your input is very important.

[imagemaker]

bump!

[Ronaldinho]

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but, well, this is what anybody on the faculty of the USC film school will advise you:

Get the best undergraduate liberal arts degree you can. Do not worry about a lot of film-specific education. Then do graduate film work at one of the big schools.

I know you want to start making movies right away. That's fine. Do it in your spare time. But in the meantime, take classes in English, History, Political Science, Economics, and everything else so that when you do make a movie, you have something interesting to say.

I'm not sure how much value there is to attending the GA State film program. There are really only about a half-dozen really strong film programs in the country (USC, UCLA, AFI, UT, NYU, Columbia, FSU, and Miami.) None of these schools, to my knowledge, throw people into full-time filmmaking as freshman.

There are professional schools, like the LA Film School, but if you want to be a director these are probably a waste of your time. You can not learn all you need to learn about filmmaking in the amount of time these places take to push you through. (Faculty members at USC suggest that the 2.5 years that the undergraduates get in the film program is not enough time--so how is someplace else supposed to do it in a semester?)

If you're serious about becoming the best filmmaker you can, then apply to one of the big name film schools--although, as I said, some of the faculty there would undoubtably recommend that you wait until graduate school to dive full-time into film education.

[imagemaker]

I know what your saying Ronaldinho and I agree completely...But, I believe I have a natural talent and am a very talented filmmaker, however I did not make good grades in High school and doing four years at a college taking no classes I have an interest in (like film) sounds very hard for me. So what does the talented filmmaker who doesnt have much money and isnt good at normal school subjects do? Im not saying im stupid because im not, but b/c i partyed a lot in high school my grades suck therefore i cant get into a lot of schools. If the class doesnt interest me i cant do it. I like english, philosophy, and psychology but everything else i HATE! There is an art school where i live the art institute of atlanta but the main focus there is video and the news and im not sure if that will help me. I need help. If I went to LA film school and made a great movie wouldnt that help me a lot? why do you say that school would be a waste?

[bedhead_dl]

What about film schools in ENgland?
Anybody know about them?

[Ronaldinho]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by imagemaker:
I know what your saying Ronaldinho and I agree completely...But, I believe I have a natural talent and am a very talented filmmaker, however I did not make good grades in High school and doing four years at a college taking no classes I have an interest in (like film) sounds very hard for me. So what does the talented filmmaker who doesnt have much money and isnt good at normal school subjects do? Im not saying im stupid because im not, but b/c i partyed a lot in high school my grades suck therefore i cant get into a lot of schools. If the class doesnt interest me i cant do it. I like english, philosophy, and psychology but everything else i HATE! There is an art school where i live the art institute of atlanta but the main focus there is video and the news and im not sure if that will help me. I need help. If I went to LA film school and made a great movie wouldnt that help me a lot? why do you say that school would be a waste?</font>


The schools like the LA Film School and the NY Film Academy basically are one-semester equipement seminars. Yeah, they give you equipment and a little instruction and have you go off and make a movie.

The problem is that learning to make good films isn't a one-semester process, and it's not just about access to the equipment.

A film program attached the 4-year curriculum at a real university is vastly preferable to one of those places. And certainly you can learn a lot taking film classes as smaller schools.

If you can take a semester class and make a great film, heck, more power to you. A good short film and a good feature script are the best way into the business. If you're so talented, however, why even bother to sign up for the classes? Just make your film. That being said, having taken a class at a place like the LA Film School or the NY Film Academy (again, those places have no connection to places like UCLA and NYU) won't open any doors for you.

(Graduating from the USC, UCLA, or NYU film program will barely open any doors for you, so you can imagine how little these programs must do).

While I admire your confidence, I think it's important to be realistic. You will become a better filmmaker with practice, no matter how talented you are. You shouldn't be asking yourself, "How can I direct a Hollywood feature in five years," rather, you should be asking yourself, "How can I become the best filmmaker I can become over the next five years?" That's the ONLY thing you can control, and, happily it's the thing that will lead you closest to goal of being a professional filmmaker.

A good school would not be a waste.

A bad program would be.

Again, probably the best thing for you to do, long term, is to figure out how to get yoruself into one of the top film GRADUATE schools. Think long term. That means getting a good degree from a good school, and doing as much filmmaking as you can while doing it.

And with all due respect, your claims about having "a natural talent and being very talented" just make me want to roll my eyes. Great. If it's true, more power to you. But if you think that's enough, well, you better prepare yourself for disappointment.

As for spending the money, well, most of the best schools offer a lot of need-based financial aid. You will graduate with signifigant debt, but that's just the nature of the beast.

You need to have a great short film and a great feature script. Going to a top film school program is a good way to put yourself in a position to accomplish this. Rushing through a 1-semester for-profit professional school isn't.

[imagemaker]

Ok first of all I would love to say fuck it and make a movie right now and with the right equipment i think i could, but i dont have access to it and do not even have the $ right now to get a decent DV camera. I have a great short i start filming next week and have other scripts in the works. Just because i do believe i have natural talent doesnt mean i dont want to learn much much more. I just dont the best way to accomplish it. I'm looking into the University of New Orleans, they have a good film program. And I never said i wanted to direct a hollywood feature in five years. You seem to think that you have to go to a top film school to get anywhere and that definetely is not true. I do not want to get into the politics of film schools I just want to do what i love which is filmmaking.

[PhantomRhyter]

imagemaker,

The school in New Orleans is probably good (you'd know more about it than me). There is also one in Florida that you might want to check out too. Aside from this advice, I would suggest that you type in 'Filmschool Confidential' onto your webbrowser.

This is a book, about the experiences of film school attendees and seems to be well writen with solid sound advice, compiled by folks who have 'been there done that'. This on-line version of the book is well catagorised and can tell you about the realities of film school what to expect, what to avoid and so forth.

Also, the advice that Ronaldinho gave you was well intended, and you should listen to him, because basically he's right. In many respects it does'nt really matter how good you are right now. The 'industry' in Hollywood (and New York for that matter) is chock full of talent, natural and acquired. They have so much to chose from that unless you have something totally unique to offer they would never notice.

The best end advice offered by the authors of "Filmschool Confidential" is to have a real good short subject film to showcase your talents and an exceptionally good script for a feature leangth to show what more you can offer. This I think is sound advice. What Ronaldinho says about improving yourself through education cannot be taken lightly.

However, I see your point too. Schools are expensive and may sink you (and your time) by requiring to to take courses you have absolutely no interest in. Yet this does not mean that you have to necessarily neglect your education. Whereas I am probably getting known around here as something of an 'iconoclast' and here is some advice that Ronald might jump on me for giving http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif--&gt; here goes anyway:

You can educate yourself you know. Some of the kids here think I'm smart. For their kindness I am extremely grateful. But the truth is I only have a high school diploma. I went to college for about a year and a half, but got scared and left it cause I was fotting my own bill and I worried that at the end, if I did'nt 'make the grade' that I'd have wasted all that time and money. I did'nt want to be in debt with only failure to show for it.

But at the same time I have held an abiding interest in a lot of subjects; literature, (of course), history, science, just all sorts of things, and so I read a LOT about a lot of different things. So I am sort of self-educated (fancy word 'autodidact'--&gt; which reminds me of some advice I've been wanting to share with ALL the aspiring writers here: Get yourselves one of those courses on increasing/improving vocabularly. I did it the old fashioned way-- sitting down reading dictionaries-- but these courses seem to be goo, but I have'nt had the oppurtunity to try them myself). But again you don't necessarily have to go to some school to get a good education (it helps of course, but not really a must). Just READ READ READ Anything that interests you.

What worries me about you imagemaker is that you seem to be the quintessential 'young man in a hurry', not unlike myself, many, many moons ago. The best advice I can give you is stay true to your dreams (as William says 'To thine own self be true' http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif ) but don't push yourself too hard and trip yourself up. Its a guaging trick and I hope you get it down pat.

Chills,
PhantomRhyter

[This message has been edited by PhantomRhyter (edited 07-28-2002).]

[Ronaldinho]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by imagemaker:
Ok first of all I would love to say fuck it and make a movie right now and with the right equipment i think i could, but i dont have access to it and do not even have the $ right now to get a decent DV camera. I have a great short i start filming next week and have other scripts in the works. Just because i do believe i have natural talent doesnt mean i dont want to learn much much more. I just dont the best way to accomplish it. I'm looking into the University of New Orleans, they have a good film program. And I never said i wanted to direct a hollywood feature in five years. You seem to think that you have to go to a top film school to get anywhere and that definetely is not true. I do not want to get into the politics of film schools I just want to do what i love which is filmmaking.</font>


I don't know what you mean by the "politics of films schools." Obviously, it's not the only way into the industry. If you talk to a dozen people who are successful in the industry, you will find a dozen different stories. But if you talk to 100 successful people in the industry, I think you'll find that the top film school are one of the few recurring items on resumes. That, and the William Morris mail room.

I apologize if I misunderstood your intentions. To help me offer better advice, let me ask this straight out: where do you want to be? What's your goal?

While it's definitely not true that you "have" to attend a top film school to "get anywhere," I think, realistically, that it can only help your chances--just like, if you want to be a supreme court justice, you're better off attending law school at Harvard than at SW Missouri State. This is not to say that you can't make a perfectly good lawyer attending SWMS, of course you can, but if you're aiming for the top of your professional, you're starting off at a competitive disadvantage compared to the guys who went to Harvard.

I second my old nemesis' recommendation of "Film School Confidential" but bear in mind that it's wrong about a lot of specifics, simply because a lot of programs have changed a lot since they first wrote the book.

I go back and read your original post, and you're basically asking, "How can I learn a lot about film making, and maybe take a few steps towards making contacts and/or getting a foot in the door in the industry."

Really, the answer to that question is "go to film school." The best one you can get into.

I don't know if any film school undergraduate programs allow you to not take other courses. Given the difficulty of finding work in the industry, I think it would be neglegent for them to do so.

[imagemaker]

I guess I just need all the advice i can get. right now i am going crazy trying to made a decision and its a decision that may affect how far i will get in my chosen career so its hard for me. I want to direct movies, thats the only thing i have ever wanted to do in my entire life. Its not deciding on if i should go to film school or not its which school to attend. I live in Atlanta and there are few options close to home. Theres the art school near me where i can go for 2 years and get my associates in video production but the problem is that its focus is video and not so much film. The only other 2 "film schools" in GA are GSU which i was recently rejected from b/c i have very high SATs but very low GPA... and Savannah College of ARt and Design which i got into but can't afford. Then theres the question of whether or not i should go to LA. To USC or something. I dont have a lot of money and right now i'll be honest moving across the country away from friends and family scares the shit out of me, but i am willing to do it if thats the best thing for me to do. I guess with this post i was hoping for an easy way to make my decision...maybe someone who has experience at a certain school and could tell me how much it helped them and that it would help me to make contacts and be able to direct some movies and get my foot in the door. Its so hard because some schools offer some things and other schools dont and its such a hard choice and i dont mean to be whining and bitching but its just been driving me crazy. Thanks for your help though guys. Any more advice and help would kickass too. Hopefully i can get my short finished very soon so i will have something to show.

[LilWolf]

Only a idea but find the people at GA state that have some knowledge, experience, and contacts and work with them to form a little production company. You can all learn together and you said they have a small film program, there's your equipment right there. I thought about going to film school once but with the money I spend there I could buy some equipment and some books, get some people who know what there doing and make a movie. That's what I'm doing, I live in Philly and Temple has a very good film school. I hooked up with some people from there who all have the same goal as me, to make a movie, and that's what where doing. If you want to make movies just go out and do it, the experience you get from making one will be the same or even better then the one you'd get at film school. Just an Idea. Good luck.

[Tuukka]

Film schools are not necessary at all.

They are great because you get equipment for free, you meet people who share your interests, you are being teached by people who know their craft, and who give you detailed feedback for your art.

However, all of those things can be achieved without film school. Meeting people with same interests is not a problem in big cities. Getting feedback is not a problem if you know people who work in TV/film business, just get your ass to some city where there is TV/film industry. Getting a teacher is hard without film school, BUT you can always educate yourself by reading books and watching/analyzing movies. Most importantly, you learn making movies by MAKING THEM. There is no other way. There are many people who graduate from film school and during those 3-4 years they might have made only one 10 minute short film.

So all it comes to is the equipment. Cameras are relatively easy to rent and if you can afford a computer, then you can afford a digital edit. It's really not THAT expensive. Ask your parents to help you out, or get a job. You might also try getting a loan from a bank.

Personally after high school I spent two and a half years as unemployed. But I did make several short movies, music videos and documentaries during that time. I was able to use goverment funded facilities for young people here in Finland, so I was able to rent mini-DV cameras and digital edits at very low prizes ($10 a day). I also spent one year on a goverment funded course for young unemployed people. We made all kind of art and media orientated stuff without salary.

At the age of 22 I went to local TV company, MoonTV, and I asked if I could work for them without any salary. I had enough experience so I was allowed to work both as a cameraman and editor. I spent six months working for free and then asked for a job. I got it, because I had proved myself.

After I started working on MoonTV I had great resources at my use, high quality mini-DV cameras, great editing facilities, sound equipment, lights, a studio, everything.

So naturally during the last three and a half years along with my daily job I have done lot's of my own stuff by using the equipment at my work. Endless resources for free.

I'm 26 now, and many people graduate from film school at this age. I know that at least 95% of the people who graduate from top finnish film schools are weaker at their craft than I am. You learn making movies by making them. I've spent the last three and a half years by making TV/movie stuff for at least 50-60 hours a week. Often a lot more than that.

It's been my personal "film school".

[Ronaldinho]

Well, imagemaker, there is no easy answer. Certainly, if purely professional concerns were the issue, I would say try to go to the best film school you can get into--be it USC, UCLA, NYU, or whatever.

Given your grades, that may be tough. Your best bet might be attending a local school and then trying to transfer into USC or NYU. (UCLA is harder to transfer into because it's a state school and gives priorityto local community college transfers.)

Taking a year or two of classes--including academic classes--locally, and doing well, would give you a reasonable shot at transfering into a good school. Of course there are no guarantees, but ina year or two you might be more comfortable with the idea of a move to Los Angeles.

Certainly, yes, expense is a factor. But getting a B.A. in film isn't neccearily more expensive than getting a B.A. in any other field, and getting a degree is certainly a worthwhile investment in yourself.

Obviously, there are other possibilities. You could move to LA and NY and start PAing on productions. With luck and hard work you might find people who are willing to help you develop your own craft.

[imagemaker]

I have pretty much narrowed my film school choices to The university of New orleans, Savannah College of art and design, and Columbia college in hollywood...Please post if you have had any experience or even know someone with experience at any of these schools. Right now i am only looking into schools that i can leave with a film that wont be owned by the school. thanks

[Ronaldinho]

I think this notion of "leave with a film that won't be owned by the school" is somewhat misguided. USC, for example, holds copyright on most student works--far from beind a hindrance, however, this results in them helping cover a certain (small) amount of festival entry fees.

Furthermore, if you should sell it, they split the revenue with you. (They use their half to cover stuff like the school's SAG agreement.)

So I don't know if it makes sense to pick this as a make-or-break criteria for schools

I believe that Colombia College Hollywood is one of those for-profit, professional schools that most people feel is a waste of your time. It's not associated with either Columbia University or Columbia College in Illinois.

While it is an intensive BA program in film, it's not a traditional college in the normal sense of the word, and I'd advise you to do your research very thoroughly before deciding to attend.

[imagemaker]

well i just read film schools confidential and one of the things they said in that book was that one of the most important things in chosing a film school was that some schools keep the films you make and you leave school without a film so its almost pointless you even went. Even though you have a degree that doesnt mean shit. What they said in the book is that you need a short film and a feature length script so i am looking into schools that i can leave with a film of my own. I have researched these schools fully.

[Ronaldinho]

Well, like I said, I can't speak for other schools, but having attended USC, I know that while they do keep copyright on some student work, they don't stop you from showing it to people or submitting it to festivals.

I don't know if this is true of all schools that maintain copyright on student work.