Chastity Bono will soon be a man.

[Cenopath]

From imdb.com

Cher's daughter Chastity Bono is undergoing surgery to become a man.

The writer, actress and musician - who confirmed she was gay in a magazine interview in 1995 - has been considering having the gender reassignment operation for a while, according to Bono's publicist Howard Bragman.

He reveals the gay rights activist's decision has been welcomed by her family and friends, and Bono - now known as Chaz - began the lengthy process to change genders after celebrating her 40th birthday in March.

Friends, including Bragman, have already started referring to her as a 'he'.

Bragman tells TMZ.com, "Chaz, after many years of consideration, has made the courageous decision to honour his true identity.

"He is proud of his decision and grateful for the support and respect that has already been shown by his loved ones. It is Chaz's hope that his choice to transition will open the hearts and minds of the public regarding this issue, just as his 'coming out' did nearly 20 years ago.

"We ask that the media respect Chaz's privacy during this long process."

Meanwhile, the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) has come out to salute Bono.

President Neil Giuliano says, "Chaz Bono's decision to live his life authentically represents an important step forward, both for him personally and for all who are committed to advancing discussions about fairness and equality for transgender people.

"Coming out as transgender is an extremely personal decision and one that is never made lightly. We look forward to hearing Chaz's story in his own words in the future."

[BlownCamaro]

http://cdn.wwtdd.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/153250943.jpg



"That's a huge bitch!"





Well I guess "That's a huge bastard" is more fitting now.

[FLAME_ON]

With a name like Chastity Bono, I'd be gender confused too.

[outsyder]

To be honest, I'm a bit intrigued as to the specifics of such an operation. I mean, it doesn't seem as simple as the snip snip going the other way.

[Abbie Normal]

Why is she news? Just because of her parents? Who cares? Good lick and go away. Live long and prosper.

[Tagia_Romero]

If that is what makes her happy.

[Tagia_Romero]

To be honest, I'm a bit intrigued as to the specifics of such an operation. I mean, it doesn't seem as simple as the snip snip going the other way.

Not at all. There is also the things that also assist in differentiating sex, such as hormones that are are product of the endochrine system, so the process is more or less eventual. Humans aren't able to change sex such as say a West African frog.

[Conz]

Why is she news? Just because of her parents? Who cares? Good lick and go away. Live long and prosper.


i dont know if that was intentional or a typo, if so, best typo ever

[BlownCamaro]

Humans aren't able to change sex such as say a West African frog.


Buffalo Bill disagrees with you!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e361/beedlebug/gyna.gif

[Tagia_Romero]

Buffalo Bill disagrees with you!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e361/beedlebug/gyna.gif

And Tagia says for Buffalo Bill to tuck himself up further, grow some breasts, get a decent wax and come back when he looks more convincing. :D

[SuperMarcey]

From that photo posted in this thread she already looked like a man. Good luck to err him, and I hope I don't have to hear about it again.

[ElderPredator]

If that is what makes her happy.

I wish that quote was the same way people felt about gay marriage.

[The Postmaster General]

To be honest, I'm a bit intrigued as to the specifics of such an operation. I mean, it doesn't seem as simple as the snip snip going the other way.

In addition to Tagia's info, they take the good parts of the inny and pull them out and reconstruct them to make an outty. It is very similar, but I think the cosmetic end is more intensive going this way.

[The Heart Collector]

Good luck to him.

[echo_bravo]

Question for you all.

You all seem like really open minded folks but seriously, what if you had a kid and he/she asked for a gender trasformation?

"Hey, Mom and Dad can I have some cash for a gender transformation?"

Seriously, how would you feel about that?

[BlownCamaro]

Without hesitation I would put the kid in therapy.

[Badbird]

The South Park episode about getting a sex change says it better than I can. No matter what you do to your body via surgery, and no matter how many hormone pills you take, in the end you are still the same gender you were born as.

I can't put a body kit and turbocharger on my Thunderbird and call it a Lamborghini.

Just saying.

[Abbie Normal]

i dont know if that was intentional or a typo, if so, best typo ever

It was a typo, but funny. I wish I could say I did it on purpose. Sorry and thank you.

[Juliet Bravo]

I think sex change candidates are seriously deranged. The only reason the law allows it is because it's better to let them change gender than act out in a more dangerous way.

[Tweek]

And Tagia says for Buffalo Bill to tuck himself up further, grow some breasts, get a decent wax and come back when he looks more convincing. :D

HA! :D

Question for you all.

You all seem like really open minded folks but seriously, what if you had a kid and he/she asked for a gender trasformation?

"Hey, Mom and Dad can I have some cash for a gender transformation?"

Seriously, how would you feel about that?

I'd probably tell Tweek Jr. that he or she needs to think on it some more (at least). In the states isn't there a lengthy process that one would have to go through before any surgery is even considered or am I confused on that?

[Juliet Bravo]

Question for you all.

You all seem like really open minded folks but seriously, what if you had a kid and he/she asked for a gender trasformation?

"Hey, Mom and Dad can I have some cash for a gender transformation?"

Seriously, how would you feel about that?
I would ask myself where I went wrong.

[FilmJunkie1114]

a little bizarre, no doubt, but I say sew your cock on and start pounding vag if that is what makes ya happy.

[hoojib127]

I thought she already was a man... :p

[Cop No. 633]

Question for you all.

You all seem like really open minded folks but seriously, what if you had a kid and he/she asked for a gender trasformation?

"Hey, Mom and Dad can I have some cash for a gender transformation?"

Okay, but I ain't paying for that shit.

[g1ng3rsnap9ed]

I wish that quote was the same way people felt about gay marriage.

My thoughts exactly.

[NuclearMisfit]

Good for him. Welcome to the team Chaz.

[drc5145]

Craig Ferguson told a great joke last night regarding the story...

After Chastity Bono told her mother, Cher, what she planned to do, Cher asked her: "Hey, got any spare parts left after surgery?"

[jolanar]

I wish her the best of luck and I hope the change makes her happy. That being said, even news about Cher isn't really newsworthy much less her daughter.

[Tagia_Romero]

Question for you all.

You all seem like really open minded folks but seriously, what if you had a kid and he/she asked for a gender trasformation?

"Hey, Mom and Dad can I have some cash for a gender transformation?"

Seriously, how would you feel about that?

Well, first I would ask him/her if they were serious. If so, I would ask them why they want it and ask them if they can live with such a dramatic change for the rest of their lives even after being talked through what will occur during the process. If they still want to do it, I would be with them every step of the way. Male, female, whatever, they are still my child.

[Jon Lyrik]

Hmm, do I smell ignorance here?

There are people who are ambiguous gender-wise due to hormones not matching the gun/holster...

[echo_bravo]

I got nothing againist Chastity Bono but give me a break with all this "oh she is soooo brave and courageous!" What a load of crap.

Firefighters saving people from a burning building...thats brave and courageous.

Getting a penis sowed onto your body...not brave or courageous at all.

[Tweek]

I got nothing againist Chastity Bono but give me a break with all this "oh she is soooo brave and courageous!" What a load of crap.

Huh? Who here was saying that?

[The Postmaster General]

I don't know echo, I get nervous going in for check ups.

[Pentangeli]

I'm all for reconstructive surgery, but most cases of plastic surgery seem to be taking advantage of people's insecurities.

Transgender surgery is the lowest of the low. How does altering her gender-appearance improve her life to a degree that justifies a potentially fatal surgery.

[echo_bravo]

Huh? Who here was saying that?

Oops I should of been more clear. No one was saying that on here but a ton of people were saying how brave and courageous she is on other entertainment news sites.

[TeeRay]

It's really hard to respect anyone who changes genders. If your unhappiness comes from you having a vagina instead of a penis or vice versa, you really don't have enough to worry about in life.

No cure for cancer or AIDS, yet we allow thousands to be spent on things like this. This world sucks.

[Cenopath]

It's really hard to respect anyone who changes genders. If your unhappiness comes from you having a vagina instead of a penis or vice versa, you really don't have enough to worry about in life.

You do realize that gender, as opposed to sex, is culturally created, right? There's a saying I once heard that went along the lines of, "one is not born a man/woman, but becomes a man/woman." Because of these cultural creations, people who feel that they have been living in the wrong bodies often become stressed and/or confused over their gender. Some even attempt suicide. Gender confusion is a serious problem for some people, and changing genders is sometimes the only way they can solve the problem.

[Danger^Cart]

Good luck to him.

Classic.

I wonder if there's a surgical procedure that can give me an additional penis. I could write my name in the snow like a fucking ace.

[Juliet Bravo]

Craig Ferguson told a great joke last night regarding the story...

After Chastity Bono told her mother, Cher, what she planned to do, Cher asked her: "Hey, got any spare parts left after surgery?"
Speaking of Cher...I keep thinking she had something to do with how Chastity hates her own identity.

[The Postmaster General]

It's not the kind of thing I can pass judgement on. I've seen so much body modification. All I can really say is that Chasity Bono's sex change makes more sense than Megan Fox's tattoos.

[screamer581]

Whatever floats her/ soon to be his boat. I am kinda surprised by how many people in this thread are knocking her/soon to be him by this decision. If this makes Chastity happy, more power to her.

[someguy]

Maybe the reactions by people in this thread help explain why some people say what she's doing is courageous.

[BlownCamaro]

Maybe the reactions by people in this thread help explain why some people say what she's doing is courageous.


Or just plain stupid. But is is her body, she can do what she wants with it.

[echo_bravo]

Maybe the reactions by people in this thread help explain why some people say what she's doing is courageous.

Oh please.

No one in this thread has threatened her life or anything like that.

"Imma go kill that sex changing whore!!"

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

You know, I'm actually someone who is very supportive of gay rights--and that's saying something as I'm a Christian and I know a lot of fellow Christians wouldn't support my views on gay marriage and the like.

But give me a break. Gender confusion. I'd understand the confusion if Chastity Bono had, say, both sexual organs. But come on: if you have male organs, you're a male. If you have female organs, gasp, you're female! If you're female and you happen to like to go down on other women, have at it. But don't say it's because you're a man on the inside.

All these damn surgeries do is create bastardizations of body parts. She's not going to have testicles, she's not going to generate sperm. She's just going to have an inside out vagina dangling between her legs.

[The Postmaster General]

Oh please.

No one in this thread has threatened her life or anything like that.

"Imma go kill that sex changing whore!!"


That's not really what it's about. It's more about her being saying, "This is what I'm doing and I'm going to tell you about it. You don't like it, so what?" How many people do you know who are too chicken shit to admit to something trivial, and she's admitting to something that's been defined in this thread as "stupid" and "crazy". Whether it is or not isn't the point. The point is that she doesn't' care what others are going to say.

There's a lot of things people can do to be brave. It isn't all about flapping dick in the wind... well, I guess in this case it is.

[Tweek]

Maybe the reactions by people in this thread help explain why some people say what she's doing is courageous.

I was thinking of posting something along the lines. Thank you for having the courage to do so, someguy.

Also, there is apparently there's only one type of courage and that quality can't exist for someone on a personal level! It's got to be on a grand scale.

[athf1980]

she is not going to be man She is going to be it. Just an it. It's just wrong. Just like that other it who got pregnated claiming she was man because of surgery. Nope to me. They are it's. not male or female. It's a crime against nature. I'm Christian and it's all wrong.

[Tweek]

she is not going to be man She is going to be it. Just an it. It's just wrong. Just like that other it who got pregnated claiming she was man because of surgery. Nope to me. They are it's. not male or female. It's a crime against nature. I'm Christian and it's all wrong.

Wow... I... Wow...

[echo_bravo]

There's a lot of things people can do to be brave.

For sure, I just dont see this as being one of them. But good for it though.

[screamer581]

she is not going to be man She is going to be it. Just an it. It's just wrong. Just like that other it who got pregnated claiming she was man because of surgery. Nope to me. They are it's. not male or female. It's a crime against nature. I'm Christian and it's all wrong.

If you are being serious.....


LOL

[Jon Lyrik]

Hmm, do I smell ignorance here?

There are people who are ambiguous gender-wise due to hormones not matching the gun/holster...

I really have to spoonfeed this to you people, do I?

Motherfuck.

[Cenopath]

But give me a break. Gender confusion. I'd understand the confusion if Chastity Bono had, say, both sexual organs. But come on: if you have male organs, you're a male. If you have female organs, gasp, you're female! If you're female and you happen to like to go down on other women, have at it. But don't say it's because you're a man on the inside.

I'll repeat what I said earlier: gender and sex are not the same thing. Also, Bono made the decision to get the sex-change operation because of her gender, not her sexual orientation, both of which are not the same thing either. Don't assume that lesbians are men on the inside.

[Pentangeli]

she is not going to be man She is going to be it. Just an it...not male or female.

There's some truth to that. Though I would argue she will always be a female, and that the operation is to alter her gender-appearance.

[Reigh Kaufman]

she is not going to be man She is going to be it. Just an it. It's just wrong. Just like that other it who got pregnated claiming she was man because of surgery. Nope to me. They are it's. not male or female. It's a crime against nature. I'm Christian and it's all wrong.

What are you yapping about? An 'It'? Really? Really? Jesus H 'Didn't Exist-In-A-Literal-Sense' Christ.

Also, I really hate when people qualify themselves as Christians as a means to support their ignorant "opinions". Which always sounds so fucking defintive, have you noticed? Everything "is"...it never "might be". Who gave this type of Christian their dreary, oppressive "insight" into what God's creations may or may not think or feel?

God made paedophiles and phlegm and acid reflux and Carrot Top as well as Bumblebees and poetry and blowjobs. Are you questioning all of his creations or simply the parts you disapprove of? And if you do disapprove of "them", why don't you take it up with the omniscient and infinite God that created such an "It" in the first place?

Have. A. Word.

This kind of post really makes Christians sound like the most prejudiced and intolerant people on the planet.

[BlownCamaro]

Jesus H 'Didn't Exist-In-A-Literal-Sense' Christ.



So you attack a religion by saying that their Savior did not exist because they question the validity of a sex change operation being a brave act and not just someone who has mental issues and handles them by removing or adding sex organs?



Good way to lose an argument.

[Reigh Kaufman]

So you attack a religion by saying that their Savior did not exist because they question the validity of a sex change operation being a brave act and not just someone who has mental issues and handles them by removing or adding sex organs?



Good way to lose an argument.

I'm a Christian. I don't class myself openly due to the misconceptions, contradictions and shortcomings I perceive in the Christian faith: hence the statement "this type of Christian" in my post. As in, there is more than one type of Christian: those who take the written - by man - word of the Bible as gospel (pun intended) - and those realise the contradictions it contains, and decide "fuck it - let consenting adults make their own decisions as long as it makes them happy and they remember to say 'thank you' every morning and night to a compassionate God).

Well done on casting the first stone and missing. Seems to be your remit nowadays.

[BlownCamaro]

Christian or not, just a bad road to take, insulting a religion. You can say I was casting the first stone, or just calling out an immature way to win your side of the argument, but either way I never miss.

[Reigh Kaufman]

Christian or not, just a bad road to take, insulting a religion. You can say I was casting the first stone, or just calling out an immature way to win your side of the argument, but either way I never miss.

You rarely hit. And today is no exception. You're arguing that my faith - Christianity, for lack of a better definition - which must have Christ as its figurehead (the clue is in the title: Christ = (Christ)ianity) is cited as an immature way to win an argument because I said he (no capital 'h') didn't exist in the literal (or metaphorical) way that some people seem to think.

That means the 'raised-the dead-fed-5000-resurrected-himself-from the dead' fairy tale we tell one another at 11:00 a.m on a Sunday morning.

I simply meant that I believe he (no capital on the 'h') did exist, but that he (no capital 'h') existed in a very human way, and not as a mythological being who turned water into wine, but rather a man who bled when scourged and crucified for being reactionary.

But in all the "testaments" from or based on his (small 'h') life, none ever said "be as intolerant as fucking possible, 'cos these people and their alternative lifestyles make me want to fucking puke".

Still, I have not read all the versions yet. They change from year to year.

[BlownCamaro]

That means the 'raised-the dead-fed-5000-resurrected-himself-from the dead' fairy tale we tell one another at 11:00 a.m on a Sunday morning.

I simply meant that I believe he (no capital on the 'h') did exist, but that he (no capital 'h') existed in a very human way, and not as a mythological being who turned water into wine, but rather a man who bled when scourged and crucified for being reactionary.




Randomly selecting parts of the Bible to believe and not believe is a great idea. I do that for any book I read.

[Tweek]

[twitches nose]

Thread closed!


Darn. :(

[someguy]

Randomly selecting parts of the Bible to believe and not believe is a great idea. I do that for any book I read.

You follow every teaching in the Bible?

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

I'll repeat what I said earlier: gender and sex are not the same thing. Also, Bono made the decision to get the sex-change operation because of her gender, not her sexual orientation, both of which are not the same thing either. Don't assume that lesbians are men on the inside.

Sex:
1. either the male or female division of a species, esp. as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions.
2. the sum of the structural and functional differences by which the male and female are distinguished, or the phenomena or behavior dependent on these differences.


Gender:
1. Grammar. a. (in many languages) a set of classes that together include all nouns, membership in a particular class being shown by the form of the noun itself or by the form or choice of words that modify, replace, or otherwise refer to the noun, as, in English, the choice of he to replace the man, of she to replace the woman, of it to replace the table, of it or she to replace the ship. The number of genders in different languages varies from 2 to more than 20; often the classification correlates in part with sex or animateness. The most familiar sets of genders are of three classes (as masculine, feminine, and neuter in Latin and German) or of two (as common and neuter in Dutch, or masculine and feminine in French and Spanish).
b. one class of such a set.
c. such classes or sets collectively or in general.
d. membership of a word or grammatical form, or an inflectional form showing membership, in such a class.

2. sex: the feminine gender.

I only bring up Ms. Bono's sexual orientation because it always seems to me as only being a rationalization for their homosexuality. And they shouldn't be rationalizing it. It's perfectly fine if they're gay. That's just how it comes off to me.

And I really don't see how it's courageous of her to make the announcement. If she wants to bastardize her body and have a fake penis that will emit little sexual desire for her or any future partners she may have, fine. But the argument for sex change has always seemed off to me. If you're a guy and you feel like a woman on the inside, then seek psychiatric help; don't cut off your balls and turn your penis inside out. Wrecking your body isn't going to bring in the proper hormones.

[Tagia_Romero]

For sure, I just dont see this as being one of them.

How so? Bravery isn't always something for the benefit of others.

[Tinkles]

I hate how they always say this is another big step for gay rights. These people are continously trying to convince everyone that it's perfectly normal to turn your penis into a vagina or vise versa. I mean anyone with half a brain can tell thats a little weird. I wish they'd just keep it to themselves so I don't have to throw up thinking about it.

[FLAME_ON]

I really have no qualm with the gays but transgender just doesn't sit well with me. Cross-dressing, too; whatever--weird as fuck--but whatever.
But these people come out and say, well "I've always felt like a man trapped in a woman's body" or a "woman trapped in a man's body".
I say, that's too bad, sincerely, that's a difficult thing to live with... but actually changing your sex? I don't think it should be socially acceptable. Get psychiatric therapy or find some sort of peace with your self. Human beings have been around a long fucking time and so have alternative lifestyles, but physically and biologically changing your sex?? Really?? It's come to that?? All those other people--for thousands and thousands of years--feeling like the opposite sex is trapped in their body must have been so miserable they just jumped off a cliff? Some people are just SOOOO unhappy that modern science has to figure out how to make penises and clitorises out of cadaver ear lobes??

Another problem is that these people are lumped with the gays and get carried on their back. Transsexuals need and should be in a different category. Homosexuality is something I can swallow (;)) but seriously, how is transgender not so taboo that it's suppressed?
Religion aside (I pray to the flying spaghetti monster), it's just not fucking natural.
There isn't anything you can compare it to, every other alternative lifestyle in society can happen on it's own. Resorting to surgery and hormone treatment should be a sign saying, "Okay, this might be going too far; thus, maybe it shouldn't be done"

That's all I have to say.

[Tony_Montana]

When I first saw this on imdb I read it as Bono from U2 changing his sex...

http://static.open.salon.com/files/bono1229026585.jpg

[echo_bravo]

How many inches do you think Chastity is gonna get?
Personally, I think she/he is gonna get greedy and get 10 inches. Damn, now I envy her.:(

[Jon Lyrik]

I used to be fairly confident that there were intelligent people on this forum. Not anymore.

[BlownCamaro]

You follow every teaching in the Bible?


Follow? No. I would like to be a better Christian but I am quite the sinner.
Believe? Yes I do believe the entire "Good Book".



Echo: She will probably only get 6 or so. I watched a Discovery Channel show on transgender operations once and for some reason they can not go much bigger than that. This was several years ago though so they may have made advancements. Who knows.

[Juliet Bravo]

I really have no qualm with the gays but transgender just doesn't sit well with me. Cross-dressing, too; whatever--weird as fuck--but whatever.
But these people come out and say, well "I've always felt like a man trapped in a woman's body" or a "woman trapped in a man's body".
I say, that's too bad, sincerely, that's a difficult thing to live with... but actually changing your sex? I don't think it should be socially acceptable. Get psychiatric therapy or find some sort of peace with your self. Human beings have been around a long fucking time and so have alternative lifestyles, but physically and biologically changing your sex?? Really?? It's come to that?? All those other people--for thousands and thousands of years--feeling like the opposite sex is trapped in their body must have been so miserable they just jumped off a cliff? Some people are just SOOOO unhappy that modern science has to figure out how to make penises and clitorises out of cadaver ear lobes??

Another problem is that these people are lumped with the gays and get carried on their back. Transsexuals need and should be in a different category. Homosexuality is something I can swallow (;)) but seriously, how is transgender not so taboo that it's suppressed?
Religion aside (I pray to the flying spaghetti monster), it's just not fucking natural.
There isn't anything you can compare it to, every other alternative lifestyle in society can happen on it's own. Resorting to surgery and hormone treatment should be a sign saying, "Okay, this might be going too far; thus, maybe it shouldn't be done"

That's all I have to say.

Yeah but who decides where that line must be drawn? Eh? I surely wouldn't want to be that person.

[Juliet Bravo]

she is not going to be man She is going to be it. Just an it. It's just wrong. Just like that other it who got pregnated claiming she was man because of surgery. Nope to me. They are it's. not male or female. It's a crime against nature. I'm Christian and it's all wrong.


:eek:

Are you for real? You sound like a Retarded Christian Caricature.

[Juliet Bravo]

I used to be fairly confident that there were intelligent people on this forum. Not anymore.
Hey! I resent that. :D

[Dom Shady]

So she's becoming a man to bang girls? Is she gay or is he straight? It's a shame that nobody likes who they are anymore. How long until changing gender is not enough and the white female wants to become an asian man or whatever combination you can think of. I'm all for being happy with your life but something tells me that you'll never be happy if you have to go as far as changing your gender in an attempt to be at peace with yourself.

[someguy]

Follow? No. I would like to be a better Christian but I am quite the sinner.
Believe? Yes I do believe the entire "Good Book".

So where do you get off criticizing someone for picking and choosing from the bible when you do it yourself? Either practice what you preach or keep quiet.

[BlownCamaro]

So where do you get off criticizing someone for picking and choosing from the bible when you do it yourself? Either practice what you preach or keep quiet.



No, if you had any knowledge of the Bible you would know that God expects us to sin. It is our nature. I try to be a good Christian but as man will always do I fail and I fail quite a bit. Where did I say I "pick and choose" what to believe? I clearly stated that I believe the entire Bible. I know you want to try and get into an argument but you have to make a valid counter point for me to argue back with you on this. Maybe you should study up on Christianity some to understand the argument before you try and tell me to practice what I preach? Just a suggestion because normally you make good points but this time you have let me down, you have let the entire joblo boards down this time someguy. :D

But seriously, no man besides Jesus, has or ever will be sin free. That is why Jesus was sent to Earth, to die for the sins of man. Not just the men/women during the Bible times but for all future humanity. God knows and fully expects us to sin. This is in the Bible in several places and explained numerous times not only in the Bible but in basic theology as well.

Now for an atheist or agnostic or follower of another religion, it may sound like I am an insane Bible thumper but I am not. Check my posts out and you will see that for sure. I am just taking this reply to point out the inaccuracy of Someguy's reply. Sorry to go so off topic. I tried to stay on topic but was lead astray by the devil himself.

[someguy]

You've openly admitted to downloading movies and whatnot on here which is considered stealing. It breaks a commandment, but I'm sure you do it anyways because God expects you to sin. Do you eat shrimp? You know god said shellfish are forbidden right? But wait, God expects us to sin so it's alright.

Sounds like what you're doing is a cop out, choosing what you do and do not want to do under the excuse that it's natural for man to sin. What you said can actually be interpreted as an argument for not following anything the Bible teaches. So once again, practice what you preach or keep quiet.

[Jon Lyrik]

Sumgi, why are you bothering with Mentiroso--I mean, BlownCamaro?

[BlownCamaro]

So once again, practice what you preach or keep quiet.

Like I said, go read a Bible because your arguments are worthless in this case. Or read this. I doubt you will take the time to read or comprehend but still, in this case I am 100% right and you are wrong.

http://www.bga.com/~wdoud/topics/sinnatur.html

[BakeTheMooCow]

No cure for cancer or AIDS, yet we allow thousands to be spent on things like this. This world sucks.

Of the many nonsensical things said in this thread, this struck me as the one that makes the least sense.

Who is the "we" that is allowing people to spend money on procedures? Was there a vote? Damn, I must've missed that.

And money that is spent on sex changes is not being funneled out of cancer and AIDS research funds. What the hell are you talking about, really?

[Jon Lyrik]

This forum needs a purging. Like, now.

[BlownCamaro]

This forum needs a purging. Like, now.


You volunteering?

[BlownCamaro]

And money that is spent on sex changes is not being funneled out of cancer and AIDS research funds. What the hell are you talking about, really?


Maybe instead of spending money on cosmetic surgeries, the money could have been donated to a better cause? Not sure if that is what they were shooting for but that is what I took it to mean.

[Reigh Kaufman]

Jesus was not without sin. He used to fart in elevators then run away laughing like a mad thing.

They removed the 11th Commandment from the Bible: Thou shall not pass gas in a confined public place.

The Bible was redacted.

So...yeah.

[BlownCamaro]

Jesus was not without sin. He used to fart in elevators then run away laughing like a mad thing.




Yea you got me there. You win this round.

[BakeTheMooCow]

Maybe instead of spending money on cosmetic surgeries, the money could have been donated to a better cause? Not sure if that is what they were shooting for but that is what I took it to mean.

Still a nonsensical thing to say.

[someguy]

Like I said, go read a Bible because your arguments are worthless in this case. I doubt you will take the time to read or comprehend but still, in this case I am 100% right and you are wrong.

Remember when you posted this (http://joblo.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3027695#post3027695)

No, you honestly can not tell me I am wrong. It is my opinion. Just like how you choose to do nothing but post smart ass, rude, trolling comments shows your disdain for simple rules.

And you've clearly not shown any of that with your replies to me so far. How about this...

you are grouping every horrible thing a person can do into one narrow minded assumption about a posting on a message board by a person you know absolutely nothing about

But just a few posts above you said this

No, if you had any knowledge of the Bible you would know that God expects us to sin. Maybe you should study up on Christianity some to understand the argument before you try and tell me to practice what I preach?

That seems like an assumption. And this one

So go try to find flaws in some other posts or maybe take a look at your post count and figure out what percentage of your posts are nothing but a smart ass, flame worthy remark that tip toes on the lines of the rules

But right above you say I won't read or comprehend the link you posted. Hell, let me just go back to what you said recently to me in another thread.

Get a life buddy.

You've been contradicting yourself a lot on here BC, going all crusader against me and others for being so 'smug' or 'condescending' but you really show no signs of, well, practicing what you preach.

[BlownCamaro]

Eh, religion aside, I have always thought people swapping sides was just a plain creepy and messed up thing to do. So yea to me it is a waste of money and time. It is their money however and this is America so more power to them I guess. I do not have to agree with or accept this as being normal though.

[Tweek]

This thread makes me sad in pants.


Eh, religion aside, I have always thought people swapping sides was just a plain creepy and messed up thing to do. So yea to me it is a waste of money and time. It is their money however and this is America so more power to them I guess. I do not have to agree with or accept this as being normal though.

Awesome. Let's leave it at that! Yea, everybody hug now. No? Fine.

[BlownCamaro]

You've been contradicting yourself a lot on here BC, going all crusader against me and others for being so 'smug' or 'condescending' but you really show no signs of, well, practicing what you preach.


No, you are just stating that the Bible is wrong. I am correcting you. You could say I was going all crusader but that is not what I am doing. I am just correcting major mistakes in your replies.

Again with the practicing what you preach line. Pick a new one because again, if you read and understood the Bible that would not be the summation of your argument.

Man sins, always will. Yes it can be an excuse to sin and feel guilt free about it but not that is not what I do. I do feel guilty when I sin. I ask for forgiveness all the time.

And yes I do eat shellfish, I have worn wool and linen together, and yes I may or may not have downloaded movies or music illegally. I am not picking or choosing what to believe or follow. I have sinned plain and simple. I am in no way a religious compass but I try to be a better person every day. That is all I can do.

So please go quote some more of my old posts in an attempt to make yourself think you are making a point. You are still dancing around the fact that I called you out on being wrong in your original reply and you just can not stand to be wrong, just like I can't. I at least try to make sense in my comments back to you though.

[BlownCamaro]

This thread makes me sad in pants.




Awesome. Let's leave it at that! Yea, everybody hug now. No? Fine.

Sorry, I replied while you were replying but yea I am all for hugs.

[BadCoverVersion]

Nobody has gender reassignment surgery on a whim. People spend years - decades even within a body that is practically alien to their mindset...and the amount of psychiatric/psychological evaluation involved is immense.

It's completely different from body dysmorphia or elective cosmetic surgery done purely for vanity's sake. It's a long painful process...and many people who undergo these 'treatments' often lose their friends and families and spend much of their life being looked upon as a freak.

I find it rich that the enthusiastic Bible thumpers are the most blinkered and judgemental in situations like this. I'm sure JC is mighty proud of how his teachings are being interpreted.

[BlownCamaro]

Nobody has gender reassignment surgery on a whim. People spend years - decades even within a body that is practically alien to their mindset...and the amount of psychiatric/psychological evaluation involved is immense.




They should find a competent psychiatrist that, instead of encouraging gender change, fixes the mental imbalance that causes one to think they are the other sex on the inside.

[Reigh Kaufman]

I'm sure JC is mighty proud of how his teachings are being interpreted.

He isn't.

Incidentally, up here in heaven we call JC "Space Ghost". He gets so fucked off, swear to his dad. Another time we kept on about he fed the 5000 and kept saying he must have "pinched a loaf". Took him twenty minutes to get the joke.

He's a moody bastard, not half.

So it's decided: people have the right to make themselves happy and it's none of our business, really, is it? All those in favour say, 'Space Ghost'.

[Reigh Kaufman]

They should find a competent psychiatrist that, instead of encouraging gender change, fixes the mental imbalance that causes one to think they are the other sex on the inside.

We are all the same sex at conception. How do you know that the "imbalance" is not a cognitive defect sparked by faulty hardwiring in the first stages of the developing embryo and therefore untreatable?

[BakeTheMooCow]

We are all the same sex at conception. How do you know that the "imbalance" is not a cognitive defect sparked by faulty hardwiring in the first stages of the developing embryo and therefore untreatable?

You best run along naw wit' your fancy schmancy science talk. That ain't got no place up in here.

Hay Nadine, fetch me mah gun! I done see some vermin.

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

We are all the same sex at conception.

Yes we are. And it takes that lovely Y to make a boy. And no matter how much the body is mutilated or how many hormones are injected into someone going into a sex change operation, they will never attain the Y chromosome.

So why mutilate? Do seek professional help. Psychotics and suicidals suffer from chemical imbalances too (i.e. "faulty wiring"), and the answer to their problems isn't murder or killing themselves. It's psychiatric treatment.

I find it rich that the enthusiastic Bible thumpers are the most blinkered and judgemental in situations like this. I'm sure JC is mighty proud of how his teachings are being interpreted.

I don't know if you'd classify critiquing sex change operations as judgemental. I know I'm not saying that Chastity Bono is an evil person or that she's going to hell (that's the one thing I think I've always been good about as a Christian--I would never presume God's judgement on others or myself). I'm just questioning the aspect of sex changes period. Self mutilation is regarded as dangerous and offensive in many regards (I know many are disgusted by certain African tribes' enforcement of mutilating a woman's clitoris at a certain point in their life), but regarded as sane by many in transgender cases. It literally makes no sense to me.

I know a board member has been regarded as stupid and intolerant for saying that Chastity Bono will be an "it." And while he may have been overly enthusiastic and judgemental, I don't think he was entirely wrong. How would she or anyone else be classified? She won't be a woman, anymore, and no matter what she does to her vagina, she will not have the Y chromosome.

So I ask, what will she be? What would anyone be?

[Jon Lyrik]

Dear god. I just...

[Tagia_Romero]

I know a board member has been regarded as stupid and intolerant for saying that Chastity Bono will be an "it." And while he may have been overly enthusiastic and judgemental, I don't think he was entirely wrong. How would she or anyone else be classified? She won't be a woman, anymore, and no matter what she does to her vagina, she will not have the Y chromosome.

So I ask, what will she be? What would anyone be?

She would still be a human, isn't that enough?

[Mr. Fred Krueger]

Dear god. I just...

Now come on Jon, there's really no need to act like those of us who just don't agree with these operations as just being ignorant. I'm just asking the basic questions, and I'm pretty liberal minded and accepting. This is just one subject that I and many people just don't get. It has nothing to do with intolerance.

She would still be a human, isn't that enough?

Of course, she would still be a human being, Tagia. I would never imply that these people lose their humanity. I'm just saying that there wouldn't be a sex to identify her or anyone else that go through these problems. Who knows, it could very well cause more problems psychologically than good.

[Cenopath]

Sex:
1. either the male or female division of a species, esp. as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions.
2. the sum of the structural and functional differences by which the male and female are distinguished, or the phenomena or behavior dependent on these differences.


Gender:
1. Grammar. a. (in many languages) a set of classes that together include all nouns, membership in a particular class being shown by the form of the noun itself or by the form or choice of words that modify, replace, or otherwise refer to the noun, as, in English, the choice of he to replace the man, of she to replace the woman, of it to replace the table, of it or she to replace the ship. The number of genders in different languages varies from 2 to more than 20; often the classification correlates in part with sex or animateness. The most familiar sets of genders are of three classes (as masculine, feminine, and neuter in Latin and German) or of two (as common and neuter in Dutch, or masculine and feminine in French and Spanish).
b. one class of such a set.
c. such classes or sets collectively or in general.
d. membership of a word or grammatical form, or an inflectional form showing membership, in such a class.

2. sex: the feminine gender.

I only bring up Ms. Bono's sexual orientation because it always seems to me as only being a rationalization for their homosexuality. And they shouldn't be rationalizing it. It's perfectly fine if they're gay. That's just how it comes off to me.

And I really don't see how it's courageous of her to make the announcement. If she wants to bastardize her body and have a fake penis that will emit little sexual desire for her or any future partners she may have, fine. But the argument for sex change has always seemed off to me. If you're a guy and you feel like a woman on the inside, then seek psychiatric help; don't cut off your balls and turn your penis inside out. Wrecking your body isn't going to bring in the proper hormones.

The definition of 'gender' that you provided is not the relevant definition here; the sociological definition of gender is quite different. And some people who are gender confused actually get sex-change operations based on the recommendations they receive through psychiatric therapy.

[Cenopath]

This is just one subject that I and many people just don't get. It has nothing to do with intolerance.

You don't get it because you're not the one who is confused about either his or her gender.

[BlownCamaro]

We are all the same sex at conception. How do you know that the "imbalance" is not a cognitive defect sparked by faulty hardwiring in the first stages of the developing embryo and therefore untreatable?



Why would I waste time trying to answer the question of someone whose previous post was nothing but a rambling mess of insults and stupidity?

But for the sake of trying to educate the uneducated.....

If you are "wired" incorrectly mentally, a psychiatrist with proper training could help rewire that person who is conflicted internally about their actual physical gender. This could be done by simple therapy sessions or with the help of medication.

This has been proven more times than not. Those who choose not to do therapy, stop taking medications, or just pick the wrong therapist who encourages sex changes are usually the ones who go through with the operations.

Someone like Chasity has the disadvantage of having Cher as a mother, living in the spot light. I remember the media frenzy when Chasity came out as a lesbian (or I guess a straight man in this case?). All that media attention to something so private and personal probably did not help her situation at all.

[BlownCamaro]

You don't get it because you're not the one who is confused about either his or her gender.



You are right. He is using a rational mind to ponder this issue.

[BadCoverVersion]

They should find a competent psychiatrist that, instead of encouraging gender change, fixes the mental imbalance that causes one to think they are the other sex on the inside.

Have you ever considered that their mindset is totally that of the other sex? Just as natural as a heterosexual desires the opposite sex and a homosexual is drawn to his own sex?

Who actually wants to be ridiculed and judged and oppressed throughout their lives?

[Tweek]

Why would I waste time trying to answer the question of someone whose previous post was nothing but a rambling mess of insults and stupidity?

But for the sake of trying to educate the uneducated.....

If you are "wired" incorrectly mentally, a psychiatrist with proper training could help rewire that person who is conflicted internally about their actual physical gender. This could be done by simple therapy sessions or with the help of medication.

This has been proven more times than not. Those who choose not to do therapy, stop taking medications, or just pick the wrong therapist who encourages sex changes are usually the ones who go through with the operations.



I'm a big fan of psychiatry but it's not flawless. It seems like you think it's a cure-all. Simple therapy sessions? Bwahaha!

Also, the goal is for people not to be on medication for the rest of their lives...Or it should be, but there are well-educated psychiatrists who are corrupt as all get out. (That's not a topic for this thread, though.)

[BlownCamaro]

Simple therapy sessions?


Simple compared to the multiple surgeries required to make the change that people have died while receiving, yes.

[BlownCamaro]

Also, the goal is for people not to be on medication for the rest of their lives


After surgery you ARE on medication for the rest of your life. Hormone therapy is required until you die to obtain the complete opposite sex look.

[echo_bravo]

For the record, I have absolutely no problem with what Chastity Bono is doing. Its her body (soon to be his) and its all fine in my book. We live in a free country so whatever.

I just dont think we should had her the key to the city or anything like that.

Also, Chastity can be my wingman anytime when I am out at the bars.;)

[BadCoverVersion]

Simple compared to the multiple surgeries required to make the change that people have died while receiving, yes.

After surgery you ARE on medication for the rest of your life. Hormone therapy is required until you die to obtain the complete opposite sex look.

And people go though this complicated, messy, lifelong process why?

Vanity?

A want to be different or special?

A want to be ridiculed and considered an 'it'.?

[BadCoverVersion]

Question for you all.

You all seem like really open minded folks but seriously, what if you had a kid and he/she asked for a gender trasformation?

"Hey, Mom and Dad can I have some cash for a gender transformation?"

Seriously, how would you feel about that?

I would be fine.

I just love and nurture them whatever the weather.

[Pentangeli]

And people go though this complicated, messy, lifelong process why?

Vanity?

Yes, vanity. Is that a good enough reason to have a potentially fatal surgery?

The plastic surgery industry is as sleazy an industry as you'll find. People do die "under the knife". And when the surgery is not necessary, in terms of survival, its more than reasonable to find it unacceptable.

It's sad that young girls are wanting boob jobs, or some 20 year old is reportedly wanting botox, but the truely sickening part is that some of us are encouraging them to act upon insecurities.

[BorderEevilIII]

When I heard about this I thought.......

Saaaay Whaaaaaa


Unless there is some updated pics Chastity or Chaz I see a butch lesbian look.

I wonder if mum is taking this well? Me thinks if Sonny was still around would have not been thrilled but would warm up to it somehow.

[Reigh Kaufman]

Why would I waste time trying to answer the question of someone whose previous post was nothing but a rambling mess of insults and stupidity?

But for the sake of trying to educate the uneducated.....

If you are "wired" incorrectly mentally, a psychiatrist with proper training could help rewire that person who is conflicted internally about their actual physical gender. This could be done by simple therapy sessions or with the help of medication.


Right. Interesting. Hmmm. Food for thought.

So people who are conflicted interally about their physical gender just need the right pyschiatrist. People who are "wired" incorrectly can be "cured" through therapy and medication.

Tell me, does this work for all people who are "wired" incorrectly?

Can it work for all complex cases of undifferentiated schizophrenia, for example? How about cases of profound pychogenic fugue? Catatonia?

These are not even pychological issue that are classified as "abnormal", but I'd love - love, love, love - to see the Chatty Kathy who can revive some of the patients we have kept under lock and key for their own and our safety with a little TLC and a handful of meds.

Educate the uneducated? You class "mental disorders" as one big treatable condition - no differentiation; talk and tablets for all - and you want me to take you seriously?

If you need to know why I went off on a ridiculous tangent, the answer is somewhere in this thread.

[Tweek]

Simple compared to the multiple surgeries required to make the change that people have died while receiving, yes.

I don't believe that was my point. You seem to have a warped view of what psychiatry can do, is what it was.

After surgery you ARE on medication for the rest of your life. Hormone therapy is required until you die to obtain the complete opposite sex look.

Touche. (Still haven't figured out the accent mark.:()


So people who are conflicted interally about their physical gender just need the right pyschiatrist. People who are "wired" incorrectly can be "cured" through therapy and medication.

Tell me, does this work for all people who are "wired" incorrectly?

Can it work for all complex cases of undifferentiated schizophrenia, for example? How about cases of profound pychogenic fugue? Catatonia?

These are not even pychological issue that are classified as "abnormal", but I'd love - love, love, love - to see the Chatty Kathy who can revive some of the patients we have kept under lock and key for their own and our safety with a little TLC and a handful of meds.

Educate the uneducated? You class "mental disorders" as one big treatable condition - no differentiation; talk and tablets for all - and you want me to take you seriously?


Well said.

[Preston_79]

This whole business of creating a penis out of a vagina is straight out of a horror movie. I saw pictures of this shit in a medical magazine and trust me it's not a penis, it's just a flap of worthless skin that can't even really get erect and would frighten anyone who saw it with or without an explanation. I say stick with what was given to you. Tough it out.

She's brave, I'll give her that much. She's also nuts if she thinks that having that derranged frankenpenis hanging from her will make her happy.

[someguy]

I'd also like to point out that people who go through a sex change have to go through a long process before getting the surgery, and part of that includes therapy to make sure that this is what the person wants 100%. I hope no one here thinks anyone can just walk in to a surgeon and go 'Here's some money, sew it on/cut it off!'

[Shinigami]

Someguy you ignorant slut! This thread is supposed to be about jumping to conclusions that oversimplify and condescend to people who get sex change operations. Reality only weighs us down.

http://www.southparkstuff.com/content/images/epiguid/season9/episode901.jpg

What's next, people wanting to have species change operations?

[Jon Lyrik]

I would love to have administrative access to this forum right now.

[The Heart Collector]

I would love to have access to most posters' homes.

[Abbie Normal]

frankenpenis .

Too funny.

I'd also like to point out that people who go through a sex change have to go through a long process before getting the surgery, and part of that includes therapy to make sure that this is what the person wants 100%. I hope no one here thinks anyone can just walk in to a surgeon and go 'Here's some money, sew it on/cut it off!'

100% The process also includes and starts I with hormones. Then you must live 100% as a member of the sex you want to be, while going to therapy and then you can do the operation.

Someguy you ignorant slut! This thread is supposed to be about jumping to conclusions that oversimplify and condescend to people who get sex change operations. Reality only weighs us down.

What's next, people wanting to have species change operations?

Also, very funny. I would like to be a dog. Not just any dog. I want to be one of those dogs who gets laid by women in porn movies, but I still want to talk. Then after the sex, I can call her all sorts of names.

I would love to have access to most posters' homes.

OK tough guy.

[Pentangeli]

I would love to have access to most posters' homes.

Normally that kind of post would be threatening, but your cute username makes me think of Care Bears. :D

Seriously though, some of you need to lighten up.

Presumably, most of us are here to discuss an issue with a dialectical approach. So less of the snide comments, and more of the debating.

[Tweek]

What's next, people wanting to have species change operations?

I pick horsey!

[TheMazVolta]

What's next, people wanting to have species change operations?

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3908/southparkseason901b.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/southparkseason901b.jpg/)

Dolphinoplasty?

[Pentangeli]

Also, very funny. I would like to be a dog. Not just any dog. I want to be one of those dogs who gets laid by women in porn movies, but I still want to talk. Then after the sex, I can call her all sorts of names.

An Alsation?

I'd like to be a talking, megalomaniac mouse. I'd first live in Michelle's barnet, just until I could convince her to get Barack to grow an afro. Then i'd live in Barack Obama's afro, and would manipulate him to bomb various countries of my choosing.

[Pentangeli]

I pick horsey!

You like to be ridden? :D

I do apologize, that was crass.

[Shinigami]

I think we should continue using South Park references because it's probably the only education most people on these boards have on this topic.

Wait, now who's being condescending? Whoops. I'm so conflicted on the subject! One on hand the plastic surgery culture is loudest as a vain and self-absorbed waste of overpaid egos, but on the other hand there are a lot genuine cases scattered throughout that stereotype. This is so confusing! It's like there are two parts of me arguing two different opinions. I should see if some sharky plastic surgeon will find a way to bisect me into an affront to god.

I don't care if somebody wants to get a sex change. I only hope that some day we will develop a better way of providing for people who choose to. As is the surgery is so patchwork and dangerous. I guess it's better than nothing for people like Chastity (btw I find her name funny under these circumstances, and that doesn't make me a bad person).

Edit: What I DO have is a question for someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Is 40 particularly old for this kind of radical surgery?

[XCoRyX]

Who gives a shit about Chastity Bono

[Lotis]

Regardless of what people think of sex-reassignment, I wonder why this was "big news" at all? It's not like she's an A-lister in the entertainment industry. When one of the Arquette actor sibs had the same procedure (Robert is now Alexis), I don't seem to recall any fuss at all - and she has 3 well known celeb relatives (Rosanna, Patricia, David and sister-in-law Courtney Cox).

Does doing so advance gay and lesbian rights or awareness? While there are many people who are transgendered (or seek to be), does publicizing this really promote greater awareness or sensitivity to them? I don't think this will have any more significant impact than if s/he went through with the procedure and it became known after the fact. And I would think it would reduce the amount of stress involved if s/he had done just that.

[echo_bravo]

She's brave, I'll give her that much. She's also nuts if she thinks that having that derranged frankenpenis hanging from her will make her happy.

Hahaha I know I shouldnt laugh but fuck it...I did.:D

[Shinigami]

^Lotis, I think this is news just because it's controversial. I have no idea who this woman is. I'm only using her as an excuse to talk about sex changes. And to make so many jokes that nobody thinks to ask me if I'm very informed about the topic (I'm not).

Great death avatar, by the way. Thumbs up.

[Abbie Normal]

You like to be ridden? :D

I do apologize, that was crass.

LOL I am glad you said it. I was thinking it when i read it. Nice one!

[BadCoverVersion]

Yes, vanity. Is that a good enough reason to have a potentially fatal surgery?

If she was partaking in surgery purely for vanity's sake then she would have her stomach stapled, full body lipo and a face job. Harsh but true.

Gender reassignment isn't a vanity project. It's a remedy and a lifestyle choice in some respects...and it protects the sanity and wellbeing of all those who undergo it.

I applaud her because it's always tough to totally be yourself. Especially when the world disapproves and misjudges the way you go about it.

[Pentangeli]

I applaud her because it's always tough to totally be yourself. Especially when the world disapproves and misjudges the way you go about it.

But isn't that it, she isn't being herself, she's escaping from who she is, or at least from her physical image.

Either way, I'm not blaming her or the many others (mostly girls) who seek cosmetic surgery. We live in shallow times. I just find it sad.

[Mopar Fanatic]

Blown Camaro really shit the bed in this thread.