Transformers 2: Defended

[Abbie Normal]

I am making this separate thread, because I am outraged of the blind hatred this movie is getting. I can't believe my eyes of what I have been reading.

This movie is Epic in scale and there is an awesome plot. All I read for the last couple days of the lack of plot. What a complete crock.

I read about robot heaven. The "robot heaven" as you put it is directly from the cartoon. Living inside the Matrix of leadership are all the former holders of the matrix. Sam died for a time and went into the matrix.

It is late and I will make some sort of a review tomorrow. What I would like is all the haters to shortly tell me specifically what you hated about this movie and I will do my best to explain it to you. If you did not see the movie, don't write anything. It is just sad how many people bashed it from word of mouth.

[adamjohnson]

Its not so much the movie, as peoples increasing acceptance of benality and sub-par filmmaking. Saying "I wanted explosions and nothing more" is an indictment of your character, intelligence, and taste in films - and a negative one at that.

Period.

[rocknblues81]

I am making this separate thread, because I am outraged of the blind hatred this movie is getting. I can't believe my eyes of what I have been reading.

This movie is Epic in scale and there is an awesome plot. All I read for the last couple days of the lack of plot. What a complete crock.

I read about robot heaven. The "robot heaven" as you put it is directly from the cartoon. Living inside the Matrix of leadership are all the former holders of the matrix. Sam died for a time and went into the matrix.

It is late and I will make some sort of a review tomorrow. What I would like is all the haters to shortly tell me specifically what you hated about this movie and I will do my best to explain it to you. If you did not see the movie, don't write anything. It is just sad how many people bashed it from word of mouth.

I've seen enough of the first one and I know Bay's style. I haven't seen Crossroads starring Britney Spears either. But I know it sucks.

[RicochetShaw]

tell me specifically what you hated about this movie and I will do my best to explain it to you.


Are you suggesting that the only reason people wouldn't like this movie is because they didn't understand something about it?

[RicochetShaw]

Its not so much the movie, as peoples increasing acceptance of benality and sub-par filmmaking. Saying "I wanted explosions and nothing more" is an indictment of your character, intelligence, and taste in films - and a negative one at that.

Period.



Sure, it can be annoying when people are excessively superficial, but what is downright irritating, and won't be tolerated here, is continued condesencenion like this. Seriously, adamjohnson, I've noticed a regular pattern of this shit with you in recent months. These are the JOBLO forums for SCHMOES (read: regular joe schmoe movie fans). That's not to say we don't encourage intelligent conversation and appreciation of provocative and intellectual cinema, but your snobbery and habitual condescending attitude has no place here. End it or get out.

[adamjohnson]

Hey, no one specifically is being directed at.

[project 86]

he made a thread for people who support the film yet you guys came in here and bashed his taste in films bravo

[Tweek]

Thread is being moved to Rant.


Hey, no one specifically is being directed at.

That doesn't mean that it's not disrespectful.

[Tweek]

he made a thread for people who support the film yet you guys came in here and bashed his taste in films bravo

There is already a thread where people can defend or bash the movie.

[adamjohnson]

he made a thread for people who support the film yet you guys came in here and bashed his taste in films bravo

Actually he made a thread asking for people who didnt like it to chime in as to why.

What I would like is all the haters to shortly tell me specifically what you hated about this movie and I will do my best to explain it to you.

[adamjohnson]

That doesn't mean that it's not disrespectful.

The continued acceptance of drivel-as-art is pretty disrespectful. But, again, this isnt latching on to the opinion of any one person. This is a movement directly affecting all forms of art including filmmaking, photography, painting etc.

Its kind of like saying you should be ashamed of yourself for thinking a Jackson Pollock is an amazing work of art. You should. But you're only going to be offended if you're guilty of it to begin with. But this isnt a painting website so Im not talking about that.

Im talking about mainstream societies continued push of Bay and his mediocrity, and others like him (including Roland Emmerich who we're being graced with again in a few months). We can all enjoy his films on a primal level no doubt, but in the same breath we should never be satisfied and always want more & better art.

For, if we are not improving, what are we doing?

[Hey Man]

I am making this separate thread, because I am outraged of the blind hatred this movie is getting. I can't believe my eyes of what I have been reading.

This movie is Epic in scale and there is an awesome plot. All I read for the last couple days of the lack of plot. What a complete crock.

I read about robot heaven. The "robot heaven" as you put it is directly from the cartoon. Living inside the Matrix of leadership are all the former holders of the matrix. Sam died for a time and went into the matrix.

It is late and I will make some sort of a review tomorrow. What I would like is all the haters to shortly tell me specifically what you hated about this movie and I will do my best to explain it to you. If you did not see the movie, don't write anything. It is just sad how many people bashed it from word of mouth.

Is it a possibility that maybe your taste in movies sucks? I mean how can the across the board horrible reviews all be wrong?

[APzombie]

What I would like is all the haters to shortly tell me specifically what you hated about this movie and I will do my best to explain it to you.

If someone hated the movie, what sort of explanation do you think you can give to turn them? This isn't a David Lynch film. Knowing what went on isn't going to miraculously save the movie from being the panderingly dull, idiotically shallow and obnoxiously noisy piece of shit it is.

Can you supply me any cohesive narrative examples as to why I am supposed to care about anything going on?

Why woman are portrayed in such a juvenile and misogynist way?

why i wasn't invested in any of the action scenes?

why i REALLY wasn't invested in any of the characters?

why they thought a movie based on toys of fighting each other needed to be longer than 2001: A Space Odyssey?

Explaining how the air solidifies moisture doesn't make 240+ minutes of watching paint dry any more engaging.

[Mr.HyDe807]

The comedy is much more bloated and annoying as the original, the middle section pissed me off something fierce, and the end battle was nothing to write home about, and anti-climatic to say the least. Alright, the "robot heaven" is from the cartoon. I could care less if its from the cartoon, it's still stupid, and something to just benefit a anti-climatic ending.

You like it, great. I thought it was fucking terrible.

:SPOILERS:


Alright, I thought it wasn't terrible until Optimus Prime died. That was when the movie drastically went to shit,

:END SPOILERS:

[Danger^Cart]

Is it a possibility that maybe your taste in movies sucks?

How is this dude not banned yet.

[Mr.HyDe807]

Is it a possibility that maybe your taste in movies sucks? I mean how can the across the board horrible reviews all be wrong?

Difference of opinion buddy. I hated the movie, but I don't antagonize the dude's movie views.

[Servo]

Difference of opinion buddy. I hated the movie, but I don't antagonize the dude's movie views.

Oh but we must antagonize. Afterall, "Saying 'I wanted explosions and nothing more' is an indictment of your character, intelligence, and taste in films - and a negative one at that." If people keep calling movies like Transformers "art", why, our very society will collapse! We must all band together to destroy all forms of LOW art and exalt HIGH art!

:rolleyes:

[God of War]

I actually enjoyed Transformers more than Star Trek and Terminator Salvation. Isn't that odd? :D

[adamjohnson]

Oh but we must antagonize. Afterall, "Saying 'I wanted explosions and nothing more' is an indictment of your character, intelligence, and taste in films - and a negative one at that." If people keep calling movies like Transformers "art", why, our very society will collapse! We must all band together to destroy all forms of LOW art and exalt HIGH art!



I already said that. Weird.

[miguel_montes]

Its not so much the movie, as peoples increasing acceptance of benality and sub-par filmmaking. Saying "I wanted explosions and nothing more" is an indictment of your character, intelligence, and taste in films - and a negative one at that.

Period.

I disagree, but perhaps I'm able to understand your point of view.
I can also point out that if people went to see Transformers expecting to see drama, good performances and high-caliber humor, that is also a sign that they aren't very bright.

It's just like me going for a rollercoaster ride and hoping and it has theater in it. Does not compute.

[Abbie Normal]

Are you suggesting that the only reason people wouldn't like this movie is because they didn't understand something about it?

Some yes. Clearly, if people who do not like the "robot heaven" do not know the story behind it and now that they know a little more, they might understand it.

[Abbie Normal]

I've seen enough of the first one and I know Bay's style. I haven't seen Crossroads starring Britney Spears either. But I know it sucks.

Hey, more power to you if that is how you think. I watched 30 mins of Crossroads before I changed the channel. I am willing to give a movie a chance. I guess my point is if you know you are not going to see Bay's films why even bother writing negative reviews. I do not know if you did, but some did.

Is it a possibility that maybe your taste in movies sucks? I mean how can the across the board horrible reviews all be wrong?

I have no respect for professional reviews. People like Alfonso Cuaron has hated pretty much every movie since season. They judge on one standard. So to say across the board reviews are horrible does not mean anything. Judge a movie by the category. They judged Transformers 2 like is was supposed to be an Oscar winner.

My taste in movies does not suck. I understand what the purpose of the movie and judge it that way. You can't judge an action movie like a drama or a comedy. There are different standards for each category. Plus, I actually watch movies for which they are intended to be, entertainment.

If someone hated the movie, what sort of explanation do you think you can give to turn them? This isn't a David Lynch film. Knowing what went on isn't going to miraculously save the movie from being the panderingly dull, idiotically shallow and obnoxiously noisy piece of shit it is.


Sorry, but I will not answer your questions. You have a negative attitude and sound stuck up. So I will enjoy many movies and you enjoy the few that will meet your standards.

How is this dude not banned yet.

I did not take offense to the question. That is the type of person he is.

I actually enjoyed Transformers more than Star Trek and Terminator Salvation. Isn't that odd? :D

No, not at all. Of the three, I like Transformers the best. I did not really like Star Trek.

[SAI]

Sorry, but I will not answer your questions. You have a negative attitude and sound stuck up. So I will enjoy many movies and you enjoy the few that will meet your standards.

Dude, you asked...

What I would like is all the haters to shortly tell me specifically what you hated about this movie and I will do my best to explain it to you.
See. And not only did you ask, but you asked in such a condescending manner that you rather invited the sarcastic response most people have come up with. AP Zombie listed a number of perfectly reasonable grievances with the movie (which I haven't yet seen, and so am not going to comment on). Address them, because by failing to do so you are losing all credibility in this argument. Frankly it looks like you simply can't answer AP Zombie's points.

[Abbie Normal]

Dude, you asked...


See. And not only did you ask, but you asked in such a condescending manner that you rather invited the sarcastic response most people have come up with. AP Zombie listed a number of perfectly reasonable grievances with the movie (which I haven't yet seen, and so am not going to comment on). Address them, because by failing to do so you are losing all credibility in this argument. Frankly it looks like you simply can't answer AP Zombie's points.

You don't answer a question by asking questions.

It was not meant to be condescending. I seriously want to explain it like I did with the robot heaven. Maybe you thought negative thoughts, rather than thinking the glass is half full. You see the movie and then you can answer his questions to yourself. It is clear he did not see the movie and has no intentions to. I asked for people who saw the movie to comment. But this is a free site and is free to say whatever he likes within the rules and I am free to ignore his condescending tone and questions. It does not mean I lose credibility.

I hope you enjoy the movie as it is quite enjoyable to watch. I do recommend that you skip the soda and use the rest rooms before the show.

[SAI]

It is clear he did not see the movie and has no intentions to. I asked for people who saw the movie to comment.
WHAT? Come on, look at his post again. Those are issues that can ONLY be raised having seen the movie (and it's also implied in his phrasing that he has seen it). As for the point about not answering a question with a question... a: Of course you can, it's a perfectly legtimate manner of address and b: you can easily read each of those lines as a statement rather than as a question if that's how you wish to address them.

[CyclicNightmare]

Is it a possibility that maybe your taste in movies sucks? I mean how can the across the board horrible reviews all be wrong?

Uncalled for. Watch it.

[Abbie Normal]

WHAT? Come on, look at his post again. Those are issues that can ONLY be raised having seen the movie (and it's also implied in his phrasing that he has seen it). As for the point about not answering a question with a question... a: Of course you can, it's a perfectly legtimate manner of address and b: you can easily read each of those lines as a statement rather than as a question if that's how you wish to address them.

I looked through his posts and he did see the movie. I was wrong. He gave it 0/10. I don't know why he even bothered to see it. He does not seem like the type that enjoys big budget action movies at all. Now that I read his review I think he is Simon from America Idol. I don't know what he was expecting and I can answer his questions, but it would be like talking to a brick wall. He is not open at all. He rips Megan Fox's performance and then asks why women are portrayed in such a juvenile and misogynist way. Seems like a contradiction to me. Who was not juvenile in this movie? Plus, the very fact the Megan is in this film at all speaks volumes to me. Usually women only get one shot at being eye candy in an action movie unless they headline. She must be doing something right beyond her body, which is perfect beyond her thumb. I love her btw. There is only one real character in the whole movie and that is Sam. His character is sort of developed. I guess he did not feel invested in when a certain leader died. I was. I am a long time fan. I cried when I was a kid and he died in the cartoon. Cried is strong, but you get my point. He should care about this movie, because if Optimus Prime and the other fail The Fallen is going to use our sun for energy and we all die. lol. His question of length is not a real question, although I think the fight scene at the end could have been cut in half. You know Michael, he likes his action scenes. Lastly, why he was not invested in the action scenes is anybodies guess. Maybe he is just another boring, stuck up Brit (if he is from there) with bad teeth and still hates Tony Blair for siding with Bush. I don't know. The action scenes are why you see this movie. I ask again why even bothering to see the movie unless he was doing it for sex later with a nice lady friend he has.

The bottom line is he did not like the movie, because he does not like anything that the movie is about or stands for, so why even bothering. I am skipping My Sister's Keeper, because it does not interest me in the least. I do feel very bad for sick kids and always give a buck when I am at the theater and someone asks me to give a dollar to "Help kids with cancer." If there is a girl asking and she is hot, I tell her to put her name on the heart or paper symbol just to be cool like that. Sometimes I even ask for her number as she writes her name on the paper. Have not received any digits yet, but it will work one day.

[SAI]

Lastly, why he was not invested in the action scenes is anybodies guess. Maybe he is just another boring, stuck up Brit (if he is from there) with bad teeth and still hates Tony Blair for siding with Bush.
Well, boring and stuck up is your call I guess, but I'm a Brit... bad teeth - yeah, pretty much (getting 'em fixed up though) and I definitely hate Blair for siding with Bush. But honestly... what will ANY of that have to do with how I feel about Transformers 2?

[Abbie Normal]

Well, boring and stuck up is your call I guess, but I'm a Brit... bad teeth - yeah, pretty much (getting 'em fixed up though) and I definitely hate Blair for siding with Bush. But honestly... what will ANY of that have to do with how I feel about Transformers 2?

I was just kidding you a bit. I thought you would get it at the Bush part.

You feel how you want about Transformers 2. I thought you wanted me to answer APZ's questions.

[Abbie Normal]

Great clip of how I feel at times.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuYMATwnzdo


Ren: Oh, what I'm gonna do to you. I'm so angry! First, I'm gonna tear your lips out. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. And then I'm gonna gouge your eyes out. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do.
Stimpy: We don't like this, Ren.
Svën Höek: Yeah, you's scaring us.
Ren: Yeah, you're scared, huh? Next, I'm gonna tear your arms out of the sockets. And you wanna know what else? I'm gonna hit ya, and you're gonna fall, and I'm gonna look down, and I'm gonna laugh. But first, FIRST! I gotta take a whiz, don't you go anywhere, you stay right here, right on this spot, I'll be back.

[Abbie Normal]

Matrix and "Robot Heaven" explained.


The Matrix of Leadership or Creation Matrix / Crystal Matrix in the fictional Transformers universes is the Autobot talisman of legend, passed down from leader to leader. It comprises an oval-shaped container, holding a glowing crystal. To open the Matrix is to release an unpredictable wave of power from the crystal. In some continuities, the Matrix seems to have an intelligence of its own, able to determine when and how it will be used. The Matrix also serves as a source of power, able to reformat a chosen Transformer (for example Hot Rod in the animated Transformers movie or Starscream in the G2 comic) into a higher-powered being, sometimes with a modified alternate mode. The transfer of the Matrix usually carries with it to the recipient, upon transformation, the title of Prime.

The Matrix of Leadership first appeared in the animated Transformers series in The Transformers: The Movie, when a dying Optimus Prime passed it to Ultra Magnus. Prime was the seventh holder of the Matrix - after the death of the sixth holder, Alpha Trion briefly kept the Matrix safe before bestowing it upon Optimus (presumably when he rebuilt Optimus from the dying body of Orion Pax).

Before passing away, Prime spoke of a prophecy - that one day, "The Chosen One" would rise from the ranks of the Autobots, and use the power of the Matrix to light the Transformers' darkest hour. That darkest hour soon came upon Cybertron in the form of the world-eater, Unicron, who knew that the Matrix's power was the one thing that could destroy him. Recreating Decepticon leader Megatron as Galvatron, he dispatched him to destroy the Matrix, but when Galvatron obtained the talisman, he tried and failed to use its power against Unicron. Ultimately, the Chosen One who could open the Matrix proved to be the youthful Hot Rod, who reclaimed the Matrix and was transformed by its power into Rodimus Prime, before opening it within Unicron and releasing its power, which tore Unicron apart from within.

As the animated series progressed, more was divulged about the nature of the Matrix that had not been explained in the movie. When injured in battle, Rodimus' consciousness briefly entered the Matrix itself, and he discovered that it was more than a mere source of energy - it, in fact, contained the amassed wisdom of deceased Autobot leaders throughout history (this was previously hinted at in The Transformers: The Movie when Hot Rod heard the voice of Optimus Prime as the Matrix turned him into Rodimus Prime, and even before that during Optimus's death scene when Optimus told those present not to grieve because "Soon I will be one with the Matrix."). Venturing into the Matrix a second time, Rodimus was shown the history of Cybertron by the ancient Autobots whose consciousnesses existed within the Matrix, revealing to him the Quintessons' role in the creation of the Transformers. When he was resurrected, Optimus Prime later did the same thing when faced with the Hate Plague, and came to a drastic conclusion - to cure the madness of the plague, he expelled all of the wisdom from within the Matrix, saving the universe, but emptying the Matrix and leaving only a shell.

[zombievictim]

My main problem with people defending this movie is that they just can't accept the fact that Transformers didn't do for most people what it did for themselves: entertain them. It's automatically the other peoples fault for "not giving it a fair chance" and/or "looking it as an Oscar winner" which is presumptuous bullshit. It's the films fault for not delivering on what it promised: A thrill ride of epic proportions. It's not some arthouse movie where there is a message to get or some great performance to appreciate. It's the most basic form of entertainment: shit blowing up and other shit fighting each other. So in many ways, this had to accomplish less feats than an Oscar type movie and had an easier job because of it.

So to say that people "expected too much" from this movie, is ridiculous in every way. They expected a summer blockbuster that would entertain them. The film did not deliver and people were mad. Get over it. I fucking loved The Cable Guy and Chronicles of Riddick, doesn't mean I think everyone is wrong who hated them.

[someguy]

Sure, it can be annoying when people are excessively superficial, but what is downright irritating, and won't be tolerated here, is continued condesencenion like this. Seriously, adamjohnson, I've noticed a regular pattern of this shit with you in recent months. These are the JOBLO forums for SCHMOES (read: regular joe schmoe movie fans). That's not to say we don't encourage intelligent conversation and appreciation of provocative and intellectual cinema, but your snobbery and habitual condescending attitude has no place here. End it or get out.

You of all people complaining about condescension.

[Kevin Smith fan]

They judged Transformers 2 like is was supposed to be an Oscar winner.

My taste in movies does not suck. I understand what the purpose of the movie and judge it that way. You can't judge an action movie like a drama or a comedy. There are different standards for each category. Plus, I actually watch movies for which they are intended to be, entertainment.

This is the argument I despise. Like somehow I'm watching the movie wrong. I don't think anyone goes into Transformers expecting Oscar worthy material, and I'm tired of reading that. I'm also tired of the "just turn your brain off" element. If I turned my brain off to the point where I could enjoy this film, I'd be drooling uncontrollably and speaking only in vowels trying to remember how I got there in the first place.

I know exactly what this film was meant to be, but they can't even succeed on that level. I'm struggling to think of an action blockbuster I liked less than this.

[echo_bravo]

Abbie Normal, here are the reasons why I thought Transformers 2 was PURE DOG SHIT.

The attempts at comedy...
Dogs humping eachother
Sam's mom eats pot and starts acting crazy immediately and tackles a person.
More dry humping but this time its from a little "gremlin" robot by the name of Willy or something who seems to have a New Jersey accent. He keeps humping Megan Fox for what seems like eternity.
John Turturro in a speedo with a close up of his buttcheeks.
The two ghetto robots calling Sam's rooomate a "pussy bitch" and other lame one liners.

NONE of any of it was at all funny. Not even close to being clever at all.

Did Transformers dry hump people in the cartoons?...I cant seem to remember:confused:


Another thing that maybe you could explain was that "old" robot that suddenly teleports all of them to Egypt. WTF? Maybe this film was just too complex for my simple little mind but it seemed as if Bay just made it up as he went along IMO.

Easily the worst film I have seen this year and maybe in the last couple of years.

[Abbie Normal]

My main problem with people defending this movie is that they just can't accept the fact that Transformers didn't do for most people what it did for themselves: entertain them. It's automatically the other peoples fault for "not giving it a fair chance" and/or "looking it as an Oscar winner" which is presumptuous bullshit. It's the films fault for not delivering on what it promised: A thrill ride of epic proportions. It's not some arthouse movie where there is a message to get or some great performance to appreciate. It's the most basic form of entertainment: shit blowing up and other shit fighting each other. So in many ways, this had to accomplish less feats than an Oscar type movie and had an easier job because of it.

So to say that people "expected too much" from this movie, is ridiculous in every way. They expected a summer blockbuster that would entertain them. The film did not deliver and people were mad. Get over it. I fucking loved The Cable Guy and Chronicles of Riddick, doesn't mean I think everyone is wrong who hated them.

This is the argument I despise. Like somehow I'm watching the movie wrong. I don't think anyone goes into Transformers expecting Oscar worthy material, and I'm tired of reading that. I'm also tired of the "just turn your brain off" element. If I turned my brain off to the point where I could enjoy this film, I'd be drooling uncontrollably and speaking only in vowels trying to remember how I got there in the first place.

I know exactly what this film was meant to be, but they can't even succeed on that level. I'm struggling to think of an action blockbuster I liked less than this.


Same answer for both of you. The public in general are being entertained by this movie. Most clapped at the end of the showing I was at. People know what is entertaining and what is crap. The second and beyond weekends grosses tell you that. T4 and Wolverine died after the first weekend, because the public did not like them as a whole.

Many people on this site either went in with some half assed negative attitude or just plain hate Bay. There is nothing for me to accept, because the public as a whole is entertained. It is time for you to accept that the schmoes opinions do not always represent the opinions of the public as a whole.

I am also tired for your argument points. There are so many high grossing movies that many people here on joblo hate and assume the public is just stupid, low brow neanderthals with no brain who will go see anything. Many on here completely disregard the public as a whole. The worst part is so many of you will never give an inch that you might actually be wrong. I have admitted I was wrong (once in this thread). Movies that make $250 million or more can't be movies that do not entertain, but many of you on here will kill the movie and the public. I can tell right now there are several of you who will not concede one thing that I typed and blow it off as my attitude or some other BS. I did not like Spiderman 3, but I and the public was entertained.



1 Titanic Par. $600,788,188 1997
2 The Dark Knight WB $533,345,358 2008
3 Star Wars Fox $460,998,007 1977^
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5 E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial Uni. $435,110,554 1982^
6 Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace Fox $431,088,301 1999
7 Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest BV $423,315,812 2006
8 Spider-Man Sony $403,706,375 2002
9 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith Fox $380,270,577 2005
10 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King NL $377,027,325 2003
11 Spider-Man 2 Sony $373,585,825 2004
12 The Passion of the Christ NM $370,782,930 2004^
13 Jurassic Park Uni. $357,067,947 1993
14 The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers NL $341,786,758 2002^
15 Finding Nemo BV $339,714,978 2003
16 Spider-Man 3 Sony $336,530,303 2007
17 Forrest Gump Par. $329,694,499 1994
18 The Lion King BV $328,541,776 1994^
19 Shrek the Third P/DW $322,719,944 2007
20 Transformers P/DW $319,246,193 2007
21 Iron Man Par. $318,412,101 2008
22 Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone WB $317,575,550 2001
23 Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Par. $317,101,119 2008
24 The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring NL $314,776,170 2001^
25 Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones Fox $310,676,740 2002^
26 Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End BV $309,420,425 2007
27 Return of the Jedi Fox $309,306,177 1983^
28 Independence Day Fox $306,169,268 1996
29 Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl BV $305,413,918 2003
30 The Sixth Sense BV $293,506,292 1999
31 Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix WB $292,004,738 2007
32 The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe BV $291,710,957 2005
33 The Empire Strikes Back Fox $290,475,067 1980^
34 Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire WB $290,013,036 2005
35 Home Alone Fox $285,761,243 1990
36 The Matrix Reloaded WB $281,576,461 2003
37 Meet the Fockers Uni. $279,261,160 2004
38 Shrek DW $267,665,011 2001
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41 How the Grinch Stole Christmas Uni. $260,044,825 2000
42 Jaws Uni. $260,000,000 1975
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44 Monsters, Inc. BV $255,873,250 2001
45 Batman WB $251,188,924 1989
46 Night at the Museum Fox $250,863,268 2006
47 Men in Black Sony $250,690,539 1997

[Abbie Normal]

Abbie Normal, here are the reasons why I thought Transformers 2 was PURE DOG SHIT.

The attempts at comedy...
Dogs humping eachother
Sam's mom eats pot and starts acting crazy immediately and tackles a person.
More dry humping but this time its from a little "gremlin" robot by the name of Willy or something who seems to have a New Jersey accent. He keeps humping Megan Fox for what seems like eternity.
John Turturro in a speedo with a close up of his buttcheeks.
The two ghetto robots calling Sam's rooomate a "pussy bitch" and other lame one liners.

NONE of any of it was at all funny. Not even close to being clever at all.

Did Transformers dry hump people in the cartoons?...I cant seem to remember:confused:


Another thing that maybe you could explain was that "old" robot that suddenly teleports all of them to Egypt. WTF? Maybe this film was just too complex for my simple little mind but it seemed as if Bay just made it up as he went along IMO.

Easily the worst film I have seen this year and maybe in the last couple of years.

Whatever man. You brought up all little minors things. I will admit the humor is weak. There were funny low brow things in it. I don't know why he had to do it, but I am willing to over look it for the sake of the rest of the movie, which I loved. The point of this movie is action not comedy. To you, he failed on comedy and that is fine. Did he fail on action? You must not watch many films if it is the worst. I thought Wolverine was worse. There was one cartoon where a dog was rubbing against Prime, but not humping.

Sad to say, but the public laughs at and likes low brow humor. Bruno will be and Borat and Jackson are also low brow humor, but I love them both.

[FireCaptain4]

Abbie, with all due respect, I haven't read the Transformers thread in the "Current" section in awhile but thus-far I haven't seen a single Schmoe bring up the Transformers/Matrix "heaven" thing as an issue. From what I'm able to gather, that's the least of everyone's problems with the movie.

On a different note, while critics, Schmoes, and most of the movie community seem to hate Transformers 2, I've spoken withquite a few friends and formalities of mine who claim it's the best thing since sliced bread. Granted, these are the kind of people that A) only see a handful of movies a year (usually the really pricey and expensive ones with big budgets), or B) by the time the Oscars come around, have never heard of ANY of the nominees ("No Country for -- say whaaaatttt?! Sounds like a borrrrriiinnng move-aye!"), or C) their a younger audience member and aren’t concerned about things such as plot or character or direction or suspense or acting, just robots, or finally D) the last category in which the person I saw the film with falls-- here, I can vouch that the person has a good taste in movies (her favorites include Duck Soup, Goodfellas, and Schindler’s List), but she actually found this, though far, far, far from perfect, entertaining-- we talked after the movie and she said it was probably a 6/10 movie-going experience.

I certainly didn’t enjoy the film that much, but I’m not going to degrade and minimize anyone who enjoyed it.

[Abbie Normal]

Abbie, with all due respect, I haven't read the Transformers thread in the "Current" section in awhile but thus-far I haven't seen a single Schmoe bring up the Transformers/Matrix "heaven" thing as an issue. From what I'm able to gather, that's the least of everyone's problems with the movie.

On a different note, while critics, Schmoes, and most of the movie community seem to hate Transformers 2, I've spoken withquite a few friends and formalities of mine who claim it's the best thing since sliced bread. Granted, these are the kind of people that A) only see a handful of movies a year (usually the really pricey and expensive ones with big budgets), or B) by the time the Oscars come around, have never heard of ANY of the nominees ("No Country for -- say whaaaatttt?! Sounds like a borrrrriiinnng move-aye!"), or C) their a younger audience member and aren’t concerned about things such as plot or character or direction or suspense or acting, just robots, or finally D) the last category in which the person I saw the film with falls-- here, I can vouch that the person has a good taste in movies (her favorites include Duck Soup, Goodfellas, and Schindler’s List), but she actually found this, though far, far, far from perfect, entertaining-- we talked after the movie and she said it was probably a 6/10 movie-going experience.

I certainly didn’t enjoy the film that much, but I’m not going to degrade and minimize anyone who enjoyed it.


Thanks for the input. Several people did mention the "robot heaven" including the two joblo writers reviews, which many people read.

[Mr.HyDe807]

Whatever man. You brought up all little minors things. I will admit the humor is weak. There were funny low brow things in it. I don't know why he had to do it, but I am willing to over look it for the sake of the rest of the movie, which I loved. The point of this movie is action not comedy. To you, he failed on comedy and that is fine. Did he fail on action? You must not watch many films if it is the worst. I thought Wolverine was worse. There was one cartoon where a dog was rubbing against Prime, but not humping.

Sad to say, but the public laughs at and likes low brow humor. Bruno will be and Borat and Jackson are also low brow humor, but I love them both.

He didn't fail on the action....at a point. Everything up to the forest action sequence was great, considering the idiotic humor that was also n these scenes, it wasn't as blatant considering I was enjoying the action. It wasn't until after that that the humor and the boring human interaction started to bring down the movie.
Why couldn't he put a chase scene with bumblebee and/or the other transformers to continue to protect Sam from the Decepticons. Instead, we have new transformers that, in my opinion, never shud have been in the movie to begin with. They were annoying and taking screen time from much more enjoyable transformers (Bumblebee). Add to the fact a overlong exposition sequence with the transformer Jetfire, and a buildup of the, in my opinion, anti-climatic final action sequence with constant cutaways towards military sequences. Ummm, I want to see a fucking battle scene! Stop teasing me with it, and jsut do it already. Your already pissing me off with a boring middle half, and now your acting like "OOOOO! It's not happening just yet" Then, when the last action sequence begins, I'm already annoyed, and acting as if Bay is just screwing around with me this whole time in order tobe like "Hey! See! The movie is back on track!" No Bay, its not, the last action sequence wsnt as good as the previous ones, and the end fight scenes were pretty anti-climatic to say the least. Establish more on those fight scenes, and less on a bring middle half, and I coud've enjoyed your fucking movie more.

[Abbie Normal]

He didn't fail on the action....at a point. Everything up to the forest action sequence was great, considering the idiotic humor that was also n these scenes, it wasn't as blatant considering I was enjoying the action. It wasn't until after that that the humor and the boring human interaction started to bring down the movie.
Why couldn't he put a chase scene with bumblebee and/or the other transformers to continue to protect Sam from the Decepticons. Instead, we have new transformers that, in my opinion, never shud have been in the movie to begin with. They were annoying and taking screen time from much more enjoyable transformers (Bumblebee). Add to the fact a overlong exposition sequence with the transformer Jetfire, and a buildup of the, in my opinion, anti-climatic final action sequence with constant cutaways towards military sequences. Ummm, I want to see a fucking battle scene! Stop teasing me with it, and jsut do it already. Your already pissing me off with a boring middle half, and now your acting like "OOOOO! It's not happening just yet" Then, when the last action sequence begins, I'm already annoyed, and acting as if Bay is just screwing around with me this whole time in order tobe like "Hey! See! The movie is back on track!" No Bay, its not, the last action sequence wsnt as good as the previous ones, and the end fight scenes were pretty anti-climatic to say the least. Establish more on those fight scenes, and less on a bring middle half, and I coud've enjoyed your fucking movie more.

I liked the middle part where a lot is happening and explained. Who wants action for 2.5 hrs. I enjoyed the whole movie and especially the plot. I did not need another chase scene like in part 1. I wanted and got something different. The pyramid getting destroyed was pretty fucking cool. Glad to see the return of the Rail (?) gun. Have not seen that since Eraser. I also liked Jetfire. I was pleasantly surprised of his entrance at the end and what he did. Never count out the old fellas. Sorry you did not enjoy it. Ask Bay for your money back.

Like I had said somewhere else on this site. I think it is very much like Pirates 2: Dead Man's Chest. Meant to be watched and enjoyed more and more with multiple viewings. Bay learned that from Bruckheimer.

[Mr.HyDe807]

I liked the middle part where a lot is happening and explained. Who wants action for 2.5 hrs. I enjoyed the whole movie and especially the plot. I did not need another chase scene like in part 1. I wanted and got something different. The pyramid getting destroyed was pretty fucking cool. Glad to see the return of the Rail (?) gun. Have not seen that since Eraser. I also liked Jetfire. I was pleasantly surprised of his entrance at the end and what he did. Never count out the old fellas. Sorry you did not enjoy it. Ask Bay for your money back.

Like I had said somewhere else on this site. I think it is very much like Pirates 2: Dead Man's Chest. Meant to be watched and enjoyed more and more with multiple viewings. Bay learned that from Bruckheimer.

Where did I say I wanted action for a whole 2 and a half hours? I want action and the story to complement each other, and not have something overshadow the other. Hence, the comedic bits and middle section taking away from my enjoyment.

You compare this to Dead's Man Chest. I think Bay should take points from Bruckheimer and learn how to complement action, humor, and drama in a movie, to which Dead's Man Chest did much better than Transformers. I'm not a big fan of that franchise, but at least it knew how to keep me interested at a point.

[Abbie Normal]

Where did I say I wanted action for a whole 2 and a half hours? I want action and the story to complement each other, and not have something overshadow the other. Hence, the comedic bits and middle section taking away from my enjoyment.

You compare this to Dead's Man Chest. I think Bay should take points from Bruckheimer and learn how to complement action, humor, and drama in a movie, to which Dead's Man Chest did much better than Transformers. I'm not a big fan of that franchise, but at least it knew how to keep me interested at a point.

Jesus Christ man. I did not say you wanted anything. Chill out. I was not arguing with you.

As for the comparison, I think it is a matter of taste. We differ. Humor is the only part that is different. Hard to beat Cap Jack humor.

[zombievictim]

Stop being so damn self righteous and just deal with the fact that not everyone likes this fucking movie just because you say they did.

It's like Lord Simen 2.0 ...

[echo_bravo]

I ventured over to the Revenge of the Fallen IMDB page and its fuckin hilarious to say the least. I was basically just lurking and read some of the most insane things over there.

For example, a lot of the Transformer fanboys are trying to convince people that the film didnt suck simply because its making tons of cash. Yes, because with this brillant logic, NSYNC must not suck because they sold tons of records.
I hate to be harsh but jeez, the Transformer fanboys are worse than Twilight fans LOL. I mean, at least Twilight fans have an excuse (most of them arent even old enough to drive a car yet so they dont know any better).

And Abbie, sure some of the action sequences were well done but because the film had horrible dialogue, annoying characters (that I would of loved to see die but didnt) and no plot in sight...sorry but I gotta stick with my 3/10 rating.

Bring on Avatar already.;)

[Mr.HyDe807]

Jesus Christ man. I did not say you wanted anything. Chill out. I was not arguing with you.

As for the comparison, I think it is a matter of taste. We differ. Humor is the only part that is different. Hard to beat Cap Jack humor.

It sounded like what you got out my quote was that all that I cared for was the action, so I thought I should clear it up. Why do you think I'm getting out of sorts, I'm having a discussion with you.

Of course we have different tastes, and I'm not ragging on you liking this movie. You enjoy it, great. However, there are people who thought it was terrible, such as myself, and I actually enjoyed the first one. Your questioning why people are giving it such a hard time, so I and others are trying to give our side towards why this movie failed in our eyes.

[Abbie Normal]

I ventured over to the Revenge of the Fallen IMDB page and its fuckin hilarious to say the least. I was basically just lurking and read some of the most insane things over there.

For example, a lot of the Transformer fanboys are trying to convince people that the film didnt suck simply because its making tons of cash. Yes, because with this brillant logic, NSYNC must not suck because they sold tons of records.
I hate to be harsh but jeez, the Transformer fanboys are worse than Twilight fans LOL. I mean, at least Twilight fans have an excuse (most of them arent even old enough to drive a car yet so they dont know any better).

And Abbie, sure some of the action sequences were well done but because the film had horrible dialogue, annoying characters (that I would of loved to see die but didnt) and no plot in sight...sorry but I gotta stick with my 3/10 rating.

Bring on Avatar already.;)

Spoilers

The plot was The Revenge of The Fallen. The Fallen wanted to get the Matrix and use it to start the device to steal all the energy from the Sun, so all on Earth would die and the Transformers and Sam tried to figure out the plan and stop him. That is not enough plot for you? That plot is better than like 50% of all movie made today. I don't understand why people say, "No plot." If you did not like the plot, fine, but there is a plot. We now know more about the history of the Transformers and it very much got back to the premise of the cartoon. I think this story is way better than the first movie.

I am not one of the fanboys on imdb. FYI. lol. Twilight fanboys are actually fangirls and fangirls do not go on sites like boys do. The fangirls are way crazier than the Transformers fanboys.


One part I will agree with many of you is about the humor. The some of the humor was funny, but will only be funny once. This movie was lacking good secondary actors for the purpose of humor. I loved Anthony Anderson's part the first time around.

Glen Whitmann: Okay, Maggie, look. Let me break it down to you, how it's gonna happen. They gonna come through that door, they're gonna play good cop, bad cop. Don't fall for that, alright?
[Maggie rubs her forehead]
Glen Whitmann: That's why I ate their food. See, they put the plate of donuts out here to test your guilt. If you don't touch it, you're guilty!
[exhibits up empty plate]
Glen Whitmann: I ate the whole plate. The WHOLE plate. So, me and you: they walk through that door, you don't say nothing.
[Agents enter the room, and Glen is calm up to the point an agent places his briefcase on the table... ]
Glen Whitmann: [pointing to Maggie] It was her! She did it! She did it! She's the one you want!

Then he went into that whole "So I downloaded a few thousand songs off the internet. Who hasn't? I have not done anything wrong my whole life. Hey man, I'm still a virgin."

Funny shit.

[Abbie Normal]

It sounded like what you got out my quote was that all that I cared for was the action, so I thought I should clear it up. Why do you think I'm getting out of sorts, I'm having a discussion with you.

Of course we have different tastes, and I'm not ragging on you liking this movie. You enjoy it, great. However, there are people who thought it was terrible, such as myself, and I actually enjoyed the first one. Your questioning why people are giving it such a hard time, so I and others are trying to give our side towards why this movie failed in our eyes.

OK fine. I am trying to maybe answer a few unexplained things and poke holes into some people's thoughts as to why they thought it was a bad movie. When someone else no plot, it pisses me off. I also do not like when someone says "plot holes" and then does not give examples. I also think too much focus has been put on insignificant things like the twins or a few bad jokes.

I think one thing people want is something they hate. That is for the studios to step in and tell the director to change something. There are tons of stories on here (Spiderman 3, Quarantine) where the studio did do something and they were killed for it. Then you have guys like the Wachowski brothers who need to be put in check and aren't Speilberg should have made a few suggestions and put Bay in check. We would have had a shorter and better movie.

[adamjohnson]

Wow, that's all I gotta say.

I think I need to stay out of this thread now.

[Abbie Normal]

Stop being so damn self righteous and just deal with the fact that not everyone likes this fucking movie just because you say they did.

It's like Lord Simen 2.0 ...

I heard the same thing with Terminator 4. Read some of the other stuff within the thread. I have not told anyone who did not like it that they were stupid or I am right. I am just presenting my case.

Don't insult me like that. I am nothing like Lord Simen.

[Abbie Normal]

Wow, that's all I gotta say.

I think I need to stay out of this thread now.

LOL I read what you wrote before. I did not say anything to you. I have nothing against you even if we have different opinions. I was almost going to support you. Go ahead and comment. We can have a respectful discussion. Please read the thread though. I am too lazy to repeat myself too much.

[adamjohnson]

LOL I read what you wrote before. I did not say anything to you. I have nothing against you even if we have different opinions. I was almost going to support you. Go ahead and comment. We can have a respectful discussion. Please read the thread though. I am too lazy to repeat myself too much.

The only thing Ive seen you do is try to tell people why theyre wrong and youre right. Instead of providing opinions and arguing its merits, you clasp your hands over your ears and shout "You didnt understand it. Its from the show" Etc.

[Z_oasis]

Spoilers

I am not one of the fanboys on imdb. FYI. lol. Twilight fanboys are actually fangirls and fangirls do not go on sites like boys do. The fangirls are way crazier than the Transformers fanboys.



Well i saw Twilight and when i told them that it was terrible and embarassing they just let it be and went back to reading or looking forward to the next one. They DO NOT go on boards trying to MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT, they dont say "Just turn off your vampire minds, just expect weird romance" they do not say "Don't expect to see a Harry Potter/ Lord of the Rings" Franchise, They DEAL with it, they buy their stuff, they take heat. They win MTV movie awards (god help us that day) Twilight didnt need to MAKE UP an award like the first transformers did "The Winner of the BEST MOVIE THATS NOT OUT YET" I mean, transformer geeks are FAR worse and more embarassing than Twilight fans. Twilight fans are lil girls from 10 to 21 (god forbid older) Transformers geeks are more sad than that. (IMO of course)

But your BIG stance on the heaven matrix thingy that no one cares for has to do with the Cartoons. Granted everyone i know didnt watch the cartoons (even as a kid i HATED the cartoon, i NEVER got it then and still dont now, id get transformers toys for my birthday and use my ninja turtle toys to break kick their ass. haha)

[Abbie Normal]

The only thing Ive seen you do is try to tell people why theyre wrong and youre right. Instead of providing opinions and arguing its merits, you clasp your hands over your ears and shout "You didnt understand it. Its from the show" Etc.

What can I say. Read some more. Wouldn't it be hands over my eyes not ears?

[john_rambo]

Is it a possibility that maybe your taste in movies sucks? I mean how can the across the board horrible reviews all be wrong?

Really? Cause they like a movie their taste in movies sucks? There is not definitive answer on whether someone should or should not like a movie if they wanna defend it let them that is a pointless statement.

[FireCaptain4]

Abbie, there's one thing I would like to draw attention to because it really has no defense and that is the presence of Mudflap and Skids.

In no way can you deny that those two "characters" were not presented with blatant racism-- and, no, never were they, at any time, comical. Every time they were on screen, they were offensive. The gold teeth, the fact that they couldn't read or write, the fact that they looked ratty, the way they "spoke"-- it's an incredible misfire on epic proportions. I've heard my friends tell better ninja jokes. The twins were an irredeemable and despicable attempt at comic relief. They weren't clever or witty, the were the trashiest form of entertainment-- equivalent to Jerry Springer guests.

Dude, you have to hand us that.

[zombievictim]

I heard the same thing with Terminator 4. Read some of the other stuff within the thread. I have not told anyone who did not like it that they were stupid or I am right. I am just presenting my case.

Don't insult me like that. I am nothing like Lord Simen.

Then stop acting like yours is the end all be all decision. I've talked with several people who know jack shit about movies and were about as "general public" as you could get and they hated the movie. They thought it was boring and the action felt recycled. So accept the people that people hate the movie for LOGICAL reasons. Not because they are biased and hate Bay or hate action movies or are movie snobs or eat babies.

I mean seriously, defend Bay. Feel Free. But stop dismissing others when they why they disliked the film (ie Mr. Hyde)

[Smarmy Douche]

OK, since you're up to explain' things to us littluns, can you explain what the hell this means:


People like Alfonso Cuaron has hated pretty much every movie since season.

Because I'm lost.

[echo_bravo]

I cant take credit for this but I laughed fuckin hard reading it. Some dude on IMDB wrote the first scene of Transformers 3...enjoy!
______________________________

Transformers 3: Megatron Totally Unexpectedly Comes Back a Third Time

Written by Michael Bay

First scene:

[Sam has graduated from college and is going to his first job interview. The woman interviewing him is a smoking hot blonde with 36 Ds.]
Tits McGee: So why are you interested in working here?
Sam: Well, since I have a degree in astrology I thought--
Tits McGee: Ooh astrology...that's so...mature of an interest for a man so...young and handsome as yourself. [She turns on a fan and unbuttons the first button on her shirt.]
Sam: Well, uh...uh I mean, as I was saying--
[Optimus Prime smashes though half of the building, reducing it to smoking rubble and tearing off Tit's McGee's top. It's like totally the most awesome thing ever. *beep* is exploding all over the place. Tits McGee screams.]
Optimus Prime: SAM! You must come with us!
Sam: Why!? With who!?
Optimus Prime: With me and the negrobots which are simply negrobots that don't emulate any humans in particular and are all in good fun.
Negrobot #1: [Off in the background.] Why he gotta be puttin our people down like dat?
Negrobot #2; [Off in the background.] AWW HEEEEEELLLLLL NAAAWWW
Sam: What's this all about!?
Optimus Prime: Megatron has come back! I didn't kill him in the last movie though...this doesn't make any sense!
Sam: But why do you still need me!?
Optimus Prime: So virgin preteens across the nation can have a fantasy world to live in and will therefore refrain from resorting to autoerotic asphyxia.
Sam: What!?
Optimus Prime: There is no time, Sam! You must come with me.
Sam: Listen, Ms. McGee, I'm sorry about your entire building and all your workers working in it...
Tits McGee: It's okay, it's not collateral damage if robots do it. Now go! Quick!
[Sam leaves with Optimus Prime, sliding down the pile of smoking rubble the building has been reduced to. Tits McGee bites her lip.]

________________________________

[Abbie Normal]

Abbie, there's one thing I would like to draw attention to because it really has no defense and that is the presence of Mudflap and Skids.

In no way can you deny that those two "characters" were not presented with blatant racism-- and, no, never were they, at any time, comical. Every time they were on screen, they were offensive. The gold teeth, the fact that they couldn't read or write, the fact that they looked ratty, the way they "spoke"-- it's an incredible misfire on epic proportions. I've heard my friends tell better ninja jokes. The twins were an irredeemable and despicable attempt at comic relief. They weren't clever or witty, the were the trashiest form of entertainment-- equivalent to Jerry Springer guests.

Dude, you have to hand us that.

I said somewhere else on this site that I agree what you just said, but that is not enough to make the movie bad, boring or whatever for me. I don't know why Speilberg did not step in and do something about this.

I mean seriously, defend Bay. Feel Free. But stop dismissing others when they why they disliked the film (ie Mr. Hyde)

I may have with others, but not MrHyde. He read something into one comment that was not true. I think you read one or two things and summed me up. Read the whole thread please.

OK, since you're up to explain' things to us littluns, can you explain what the hell this means:



Because I'm lost.

That guy is a film critic. I read his stuff on msnbc.com He has hated pretty much everything this summer. I believe him to be one of those hateful critics who judges everything on one standard. Please don't be such a smart ass. I do not proclaim to be better than anyone else. I just really like this movie and T4 and thought they were misunderstood.

[RicochetShaw]

That guy is a film critic. I read his stuff on msnbc.com He has hated pretty much everything this summer. I believe him to be one of those hateful critics who judges everything on one standard. Please don't be such a smart ass. I do not proclaim to be better than anyone else. I just really like this movie and T4 and thought they were misunderstood.


He's not being smartass, he's genuinely confused, as am I. Alfonso Cuaron isn't a film critic; he's a director whose work includes the excellent Children of Men and the third Harry Potter flick. Was it just a typo?

[zombievictim]

I may have with others, but not MrHyde. He read something into one comment that was not true. I think you read one or two things and summed me up. Read the whole thread please.

I do apologize, I said the wrong name. I meant echo_bravo. And I have read the entire thread, thanks.

[Abbie Normal]

I do apologize, I said the wrong name. I meant echo_bravo. And I have read the entire thread, thanks.

No worries. I am not perfect. I can come off to be everything you said. I just wasn't recently. :-)

He's not being smartass, he's genuinely confused, as am I. Alfonso Cuaron isn't a film critic; he's a director whose work includes the excellent Children of Men and the third Harry Potter flick. Was it just a typo?

The smart ass part was when he was talking about Littlins. Like I am some sort of overlord or crap like that. I do not consider anyone on here to be under me. We are all on the same level.

Alonso Duralde! Sorry. I totally fucked up on the name. I had a hard time finding Alonso's name and found Alfonso's. I can be bad with names at times, but always remember faces. Sorry. My bad. I was talking about Alfonso recently, because I liked the jon he did on the 3rd Harry Potter and wished he would have done more.

[APzombie]

The public in general are being entertained by this movie. Movies that make $250 million or more can't be movies that do not entertain, but many of you on here will kill the movie and the public. I can tell right now there are several of you who will not concede one thing that I typed and blow it off as my attitude or some other BS. I did not like Spiderman 3, but I and the public was entertained.

The general public will see any "event" movie be it good or bad, because it is the event movie of the summer. These films don't just gain notoriety through talent, they can be purchased, even Bay thinks this way (look up the e-mail he sent to Paramount). If Hollywood has taught us anything, it's that people will go to the theater despite what is playing. It's a system that has continued to make money in the multiplexes despite economic or creative recessions.

Cinematicly lucrative Phenomenon's are not the gamble they once were. TF2 is playing at five times the amount of theaters the oscar nominated films of past year played in with a promotional campaign that could fund most acclaimed films. Nearly all the summer popcorn movies make well over their budget, it's no longer considered to be a success if it makes its money back, but only if it becomes the next star wars. Is it because these popcorn films entertain their audience? No. It's because they were purchased events.

by the way, I enjoy popcorn movies but not because they are popcorn movies. I enjoy them the way i enjoy anything else: when they work. Kids want to grow up knowing they are seeing something special, that they are apart of something big. Many kids will like a movie like TF2 because it's big, therefore they think it's relevant. All i'm saying Abbie is that they deserve better than this and if there isn't substance in their cinematic diet than there is no hope for the future of this medium. I'm not being cute or funny, i'm being serious. The ability to make money at the expense of the slightest bit of quality will bring blockbuster cinema to it's knees.

i'm also not british with bad teeth... and its because of that comment that i finally understand why you never found those transforming twins racist.

[Hey Man]

How is this dude not banned yet.

I said POSSIBILITY - not that it's a fact.

[Hey Man]

Hey, more power to you if that is how you think. I watched 30 mins of Crossroads before I changed the channel. I am willing to give a movie a chance. I guess my point is if you know you are not going to see Bay's films why even bother writing negative reviews. I do not know if you did, but some did.



I have no respect for professional reviews. People like Alfonso Cuaron has hated pretty much every movie since season. They judge on one standard. So to say across the board reviews are horrible does not mean anything. Judge a movie by the category. They judged Transformers 2 like is was supposed to be an Oscar winner.

My taste in movies does not suck. I understand what the purpose of the movie and judge it that way. You can't judge an action movie like a drama or a comedy. There are different standards for each category. Plus, I actually watch movies for which they are intended to be, entertainment.



Sorry, but I will not answer your questions. You have a negative attitude and sound stuck up. So I will enjoy many movies and you enjoy the few that will meet your standards.



I did not take offense to the question. That is the type of person he is.



No, not at all. Of the three, I like Transformers the best. I did not really like Star Trek.

Of course you can't judge an action movie against a drama - but you can judge an action movie against an action movie and Transformers 2 could have had a kick ass story to go along with the kick ass action. Are you telling me Transformers 2 is the best that it could have been no matter what director was behind it?

You are essentially saying - I knew not to expect much, so that is why I think it's good. I don't know about Michael Bay, but I would think as a filmmaker, you would want to exceed any and every expectation. Like when people were blown away by Terminator 2, both visually and story wise.

[KingofKings2525]

...and to add a typical post to the rant forum.

This movie blows and that's all there is to it.

You say we have blind hatred... it sounds more like you have blind love for the movie than we do blind hatred.

[KingofKings2525]

How is this dude not banned yet.
I'll second that.

[JFS]

Wow. This thread is intense.

I have to side with Abbie Normal, I thought TF2 was fucking awesome, and so does everyone else that I know.

Apparently this means I am uneducated or something of that sort, because apparently that movie is the fucking AntiChrist of films spawned from Lucifer's piss.

Reading through this thread, I must have terrible taste in films to think that Transformers to be a GOOD movie. It delivered in the action department for me, I found some of the jokes funny, and it was just ... epic.

I won't condone Michael Bay's Racistrons, but whatever. As a TF fan, it delivered for me. In every way.

.... I don't really think I'm some kid that doesn't know better, and I don't think I watched it for mindless action and to "turn my brain off" .. I saw it because I thought it'd be good. Which it was.

Then again, don't we Canadians like everything? lulz.

[CyclicNightmare]

I don't understand the arguments in here. I just want to remind people to keep it respectful and civil.

[X-Nightcrawler]

I loved "Transformers 2". It had a lot of way-too-stupid shit (chick-robot, overdone "Mom/Dad" stuff, etc.) but the pwnage outweighed the crap in the end. It was like 3 hours long and I wasn't bored one second.

I did get pissed off that there was too much Twins and not nearly enough Prime/Bumblebee. Ratchet, Ironhide and the rest of the gang I loved from the first had like half a line (godammit) and there were too many robots, many awesome (Sideswipe) who also were in it for half a second. And I thought Jetfire was hi-larious.

Cool movie, just like I expected. Can't wait for 3.

[Abbie Normal]

i'm also not british with bad teeth... and its because of that comment that i finally understand why you never found those transforming twins racist.

You need to read the rest of the thread. That joke was made for someone else and he got it. It had nothing to do with you. I have also said in three or four places (this thread and others) that I found the twins to be useless and racist characters. If you would take the time to read before you type you would have read that. Now go read the thread and apologize.

[Abbie Normal]

...and to add a typical post to the rant forum.

This movie blows and that's all there is to it.

You say we have blind hatred... it sounds more like you have blind love for the movie than we do blind hatred.

Then I hope you did not have to pay money to see it. You can not refute that there are a lot of Bay haters on this site and many of them just trash his movies before they even see them. For those people it is blind hatred.

[APzombie]

You need to read the rest of the thread. That joke was made for someone else and he got it. It had nothing to do with you.

This was your quote.

I looked through his posts and he did see the movie. I was wrong. He gave it 0/10. I don't know why he even bothered to see it. He does not seem like the type that enjoys big budget action movies at all. Now that I read his review I think he is Simon from America Idol. I don't know what he was expecting and I can answer his questions, but it would be like talking to a brick wall. He is not open at all. He rips Megan Fox's performance and then asks why women are portrayed in such a juvenile and misogynist way. Seems like a contradiction to me. Who was not juvenile in this movie? Plus, the very fact the Megan is in this film at all speaks volumes to me. Usually women only get one shot at being eye candy in an action movie unless they headline. She must be doing something right beyond her body, which is perfect beyond her thumb. I love her btw. There is only one real character in the whole movie and that is Sam. His character is sort of developed. I guess he did not feel invested in when a certain leader died. I was. I am a long time fan. I cried when I was a kid and he died in the cartoon. Cried is strong, but you get my point. He should care about this movie, because if Optimus Prime and the other fail The Fallen is going to use our sun for energy and we all die. lol. His question of length is not a real question, although I think the fight scene at the end could have been cut in half. You know Michael, he likes his action scenes. Lastly, why he was not invested in the action scenes is anybodies guess. Maybe he is just another boring, stuck up Brit (if he is from there) with bad teeth and still hates Tony Blair for siding with Bush. I don't know. The action scenes are why you see this movie. I ask again why even bothering to see the movie unless he was doing it for sex later with a nice lady friend he has.

So after you noted how ridiculous all of my specific points were, noted how i gave the film a 0/10 and referred to me as 'him' right before saying

"why he was not invested in the action scenes (which i said) is anybodies guess. Maybe he is just another boring, stuck up Brit (if he is from there) with bad teeth and still hates Tony Blair for siding with Bush. I don't know."

You are telling me that it actually was not referencing me at all and had nothing to do with me? If you were referencing SAI, you really need to specify this shit and not use "him" back to back when it means somebody else.

I have also said in three or four places (this thread and others) that I found the twins to be useless and racist characters. If you would take the time to read before you type you would have read that. Now go read the thread and apologize.

It's difficult to grasp that you think that after giving it a glowing review and using a rather rude nationality remark yourself. The twins took up a huge chunk of the movie, so you actually think they are useless and racist and still defend the fact that the film is obnoxiously long and give it an 8/10? Those robots make Jar Jar look like MLKJr. This isn't Birth of a Nation, Bay isn't redefining the medium, it seems difficult to believe someone could accept that two major characters are blatantly offensive and still give Bay a pat on the back because he blew shit up.

[Heisenberg]

I'll second that.

I'll third it.




I have not yet seen Transformers 2, I liked the first movie but some of the elements of this one sounds fucking stupid. I'll reserve my opinion until I see it later this week.

[poopontheshoes7]

whew, what a thread.

I can totally see why people hate this movie. It is a pretty silly movie. and yes, it borders on stupidity most of the time. But one thing I don't like is being condescended to for a liking a film someone else doesn't. And some Schmoes here, on both sides of the argument, have been condescending.

Not liking this movie doesn't make you an elitist snob. Liking this movie doesn't make you some brainless drone who only likes shiny things that go boom.


I for one, got what I expected out of the film. And expecting nothing but goofy humor and over the top action doesn't make me some low IQ retard who can't appreciate "good" cinema.
Is it a bad thing to want something more out a Transformers movie? No, of course not. But I do think it is rather silly considering how the first one turned out. I'm not surprised at the hate. I'm surprised others are surprised it turned out the way it did.

[Abbie Normal]

So after you noted how ridiculous all of my specific points were, noted how i gave the film a 0/10 and referred to me as 'him' right before saying

"why he was not invested in the action scenes (which i said) is anybodies guess. Maybe he is just another boring, stuck up Brit (if he is from there) with bad teeth and still hates Tony Blair for siding with Bush. I don't know."

You are telling me that it actually was not referencing me at all and had nothing to do with me? If you were referencing SAI, you really need to specify this shit and not use "him" back to back when it means somebody else.



It's difficult to grasp that you think that after giving it a glowing review and using a rather rude nationality remark yourself. The twins took up a huge chunk of the movie, so you actually think they are useless and racist and still defend the fact that the film is obnoxiously long and give it an 8/10? Those robots make Jar Jar look like MLKJr. This isn't Birth of a Nation, Bay isn't redefining the medium, it seems difficult to believe someone could accept that two major characters are blatantly offensive and still give Bay a pat on the back because he blew shit up.


First off, you need to chill out. You are making up all sorts of words that are not there. I never said anything you said was ridiculous. I referring you as "him" because it was not written to you, just about you. SAI had asked why I did not answer your questions and how it hurt the credibility of my argument. The quote about being a Brit and such was a joke and it was directly directly to SAI. This goes back many months ago from a few things we traded back and forth in a spirited, but non insulting way. Are from Great Britain? No, then why are you insulted. It was meant to be a joke and he seemed fine with it.

Secondly, I never gave a review yet. I have said a bunch of stuff and gave it a grade of 7 or 8/10, but never did I give it a full review. I don't the Twins took up a huge part of the film, but they are in movie way too much. I can still give this or any other movie as high a grade as I like despite any flaws they may have. You gave it a zero and did I jump all over you for it? No. I agree with you on the racism and you are fighting me like I don't agree. All this because you are too lazy to look for my words somewhere else on another thread. When I write my review I might give it a 10/10 just for you.

Can someone else read back the stuff in this thread and tell me if I have insulted him or done anything wrong? I would like to know if it is me or jus thim being over sensitive.

[Heisenberg]

Abbie Normal - its your whole manner when you are talking to others that pisses me off. You come across as a cocky little shit that think that only they are right, and that people who dissagree with them just 'don't understand'. The LordSimen 2.0 reference wasn't far wrong...so far.

Now I hate to see anybody on here fighting or god forbid getting banned, but the way you talk to people on here suggests that you actually wan't to argue. I mean jesus christ, people don't agree with you on this film...why does it matter to you so much. You have not only made the thread in the current movies section one big argument, you created this thread with has also turned into a big argument. Seriously guy, you gotta chill the fuck out and accept that not everybody will love this movie.

[APzombie]

alright Abbie, i'm going to chill out and respect the fact that it is your opinion from now on for the sake of either of us getting too passionate about this. It's not my wish for either of us to get banned.

[zombievictim]

Can someone else read back the stuff in this thread and tell me if I have insulted him or done anything wrong? I would like to know if it is me or jus thim being over sensitive.

He's not being over sensitive. You're getting out of control.

Take AP's advice.

[RicochetShaw]

Here's one small issue (compared to others) I had that perhaps you can explain.

How come Devastator, largest and seemingly most powerful of the Transformers, couldn't kill that tiny twin transformer? I mean really, Devastator is HUGE, and sucks that tiny thing through its large, powerful turbine, and it doesn't kill him. How useless is he if he can't even kill one of those tiny ones, after getting him right in the turbine? I mean, really.

[RicochetShaw]

Well it looks like Reigh is about to chime in on this too...

[Reigh Kaufman]

Here's one small issue (compared to others) I had that perhaps you can explain.

How come Devastator, largest and seemingly most powerful of the Transformers, couldn't kill that tiny twin transformer? I mean really, Devastator is HUGE, and sucks that tiny thing through its large, powerful turbine, and it doesn't kill him. How useless is he if he can't even kill one of those tiny ones, after getting him right in the turbine? I mean, really.

I'm trying to think of any Autobots that were killed. Even after a few Jack Daniels, my memory isn't that foggy.

PLUS! SPOILERS!






Megatron is not crushed like a tin can by the abyss, is brought back from the dead by a sliver from the Allspark, has half his face ripped off, et cetera but Bumblebee still can't speak a fucking word?

How come we see High Tower being killed by Bumblebee and at the SAME TIME he is still part of Devastator fighting NEST?


HMMMMM?

Sorry, Ric. My mind was elsewhere.

[Kevin Smith fan]

So does this mean its acceptable to start posting threads of all the movies I personally like for no reason other than mindless entertainment and condemn those who do not think like I do?

Suburban Commando: Defended
Teen Wolf Too: Defended
Street Fighter The Movie: Defended
All of Eli Roth's movies: Defended
Rossane Arnold Naked: Defended

If you do not agree with any of these come to these threads and I will explain to you why you are wrong and are simply just not intellegent enough to appreciate these things the way that I do.

[Abbie Normal]

Abbie Normal - its your whole manner when you are talking to others that pisses me off. You come across as a cocky little shit that think that only they are right, and that people who dissagree with them just 'don't understand'. The LordSimen 2.0 reference wasn't far wrong...so far.

Now I hate to see anybody on here fighting or god forbid getting banned, but the way you talk to people on here suggests that you actually wan't to argue. I mean jesus christ, people don't agree with you on this film...why does it matter to you so much. You have not only made the thread in the current movies section one big argument, you created this thread with has also turned into a big argument. Seriously guy, you gotta chill the fuck out and accept that not everybody will love this movie.


I think you are selectively reading posts within this thread. I have said several times to people that I can understand why they did not enjoy this film or something along those lines. I have also been personally attacked at least two different people and those people were warned by mods. I am not saying I am perfect, but I think you are making more of it than is really there. AP was fighting with me when on something I agree with him on. You yourself are coming close to making your rant a personal attack. I have not said anywhere ever that I am right and you are wrong. I consistently say "it is my opinion" or "you can feel the way you do, it is fine" Lord Simen was such a word, I can not type out on here and he was that way all the time. I am passionate about this movie and T4. I think it is unfairly being bashed and I am defending it. There have also been a few people to defend me on this thread, but I doubt you are reading those threads. I did not attack you in the least, when you said something, but I guess you missed that too.

[Abbie Normal]

Here's one small issue (compared to others) I had that perhaps you can explain.

How come Devastator, largest and seemingly most powerful of the Transformers, couldn't kill that tiny twin transformer? I mean really, Devastator is HUGE, and sucks that tiny thing through its large, powerful turbine, and it doesn't kill him. How useless is he if he can't even kill one of those tiny ones, after getting him right in the turbine? I mean, really.

Because Michael Bay really likes his racist little comedy killers. My guess would be that Devastator, despite the name, was really just a big vacuum, so when he sucked up the twins they were just sucked up and not ground into pieces like a garbage disposal. Maybe Devastator needed a HEPA filter. It is hard to tell, because you never really saw what happened to all the bricks being sucked into him.

One small note. In the first movie, there was one really cool Decepticon called Bonecrusher. He was the one who smashed through the bus in the highway. Bonecrusher is supposed to be part of Devastator.

[Abbie Normal]

So does this mean its acceptable to start posting threads of all the movies I personally like for no reason other than mindless entertainment and condemn those who do not think like I do?

Suburban Commando: Defended
Teen Wolf Too: Defended
Street Fighter The Movie: Defended
All of Eli Roth's movies: Defended
Rossane Arnold Naked: Defended

If you do not agree with any of these come to these threads and I will explain to you why you are wrong and are simply just not intellegent enough to appreciate these things the way that I do.


Sure, why not? You might want to make a Clerks 2: Defended or just a Kevin Smith movies: Defended. The key word is entertainment.

[Heisenberg]

I think you are selectively reading posts within this thread. I have said several times to people that I can understand why they did not enjoy this film or something along those lines. I have also been personally attacked at least two different people and those people were warned by mods. I am not saying I am perfect, but I think you are making more of it than is really there. AP was fighting with me when on something I agree with him on. You yourself are coming close to making your rant a personal attack. I have not said anywhere ever that I am right and you are wrong. I consistently say "it is my opinion" or "you can feel the way you do, it is fine" Lord Simen was such a word, I can not type out on here and he was that way all the time. I am passionate about this movie and T4. I think it is unfairly being bashed and I am defending it. There have also been a few people to defend me on this thread, but I doubt you are reading those threads. I did not attack you in the least, when you said something, but I guess you missed that too.

Jesus christ, stop feeling sorry for yourself. Your giving out as much as your getting. 'Unfairly being bashed'- What does that even mean. People saw the movie and didn't like it, they can say whatever they want about it.
They gave it a fair chance by watching the fucking thing. If they don't like the film after actually watching it, who the hell are you to say they didn't like certain aspects cause they didn't understand them. How about, they just thought it sucked.

And btw, these are not personal attacks. You might like to read into posts too much but I'm just giving ya a heads up before you go crazy and risk getting yourself banned.

[The Arrow]

I read about robot heaven. The "robot heaven" as you put it is directly from the cartoon. Living inside the Matrix of leadership are all the former holders of the matrix. Sam died for a time and went into the matrix.


"Robot heaven"... afterlife within The Matrix... same shit... what works in a cartoon won't necessarily work for a live action film. This was the case for me. Transformers 2 lost me the moment it showed dogs fucking - was that from the cartoon too? How about the dumb as bolts hip-hop Autobots with monkey faces? Or the Terminatrix knock-off that had ZERO business in a Transformers movie? From the cartoon too? I love Michael Bay, enjoyed the original film - thought this one was a pile of shit...

[Reigh Kaufman]

Yeah like I said..."robot heaven"... same shit... what works in a cartoon won't necessarily work for a live action film. This was the case for me. Transformers 2 lost me the moment it showed dogs fucking - was that from the cartoon too? How about the dumb as bolts hip-hop Autobots with monkey faces? Or the Terminatrix knock-off that had ZERO business in a Transformers movie? From the cartoon too? I love Michael Bay, enjoyed the original film - thought this one was a pile of shit...

One day I hope to tell my grandchildren about the day that I was torn a new one by The Arrow.

Lucky bastard.

;)

[Abbie Normal]

"Robot heaven"... afterlife within The Matrix... same shit... what works in a cartoon won't necessarily work for a live action film. This was the case for me. Transformers 2 lost me the moment it showed dogs fucking - was that from the cartoon too? How about the dumb as bolts hip-hop Autobots with monkey faces? Or the Terminatrix knock-off that had ZERO business in a Transformers movie? From the cartoon too? I love Michael Bay, enjoyed the original film - thought this one was a pile of shit...

So the little insignificant part where Mojo is humping the other dog, that happened in the first 5 minutes of the movie, ruined the whole rest of the movie for you? Or the other insignificant so called comedy parts that had nothing to do with the plot or the fact that it is an action movie ruined the whole movie for? You don't think that you are knit picking a bit?

Tell me you hated the plot, I'd buy that. Tell me you hated the movie, because there is only one decent character development, I'd buy that. Tell me you were dizzy from the fights scenes, where you could not distinguish one robot from the other, I'd buy that.

To me, from what I gather from what you are saying about TF2 is EXACTLY the same thing if I said I hated Pulp Fiction, because in one scene Honey Bunny says her speech to the customers in the diner and then when the scene was replayed near the end of the movie, a line is changed. Or when Travolta or Jackson (I forget which) gun is cocked open from running out of bullets, but later when the scene is replayed after the shooting, the gun is not cocked or out of bullets (or vice versa, I forget). Or I just didn't like Uma's big feet and those are the reasons why I hated Pulp Fiction. Those things have very little to do with the great movie that Pulp Fiction is and anyone saying those things would probably be laughed off this site.

One day I hope to tell my grandchildren about the day that I was torn a new one by The Arrow.

Lucky bastard.

;)

My grand kids will laugh at that those weak reasons. I will teach my children (and they will in turn teach their children) to look beyond the little things and look at the bigger picture. I will also tell my grand children how President Obama put us in so much debt that not only will they be paying off his bills, but their grand children's, children as well. I will also tell them that after CA went bankrupt, because they did not want to cut any social programs their grand dad had to leave the state for a more fiscally responsible state.

[Philanidas]

This is the most epic debate I have seen here in a while, please continue the white hot intensity that is burning through my Computer screen:D

[Mr.HyDe807]

Yeah, the bloated comedy wasn't in the movie at all. Dogs humping, an annoying hacker friend that made me laugh a little one, Pot brownie mom whose joke went on a little too long, a recycled Section 8 underwear bullshit, and lets not forget the 2 unneeded comedic gangsta robots who got more screen time than the other transformers.

The arrow isn't nitpicking small comedy elements that ruin the movie, there was a bunch of others that he probably didn't touch upon, and that maybe I just mentioned that were also the deal breaker towards why the movie was bad.

[Abbie Normal]

Yeah, the bloated comedy wasn't in the movie at all. Dogs humping, an annoying hacker friend that made me laugh a little one, Pot brownie mom whose joke went on a little too long, a recycled Section 8 underwear bullshit, and lets not forget the 2 unneeded comedic gangsta robots who got more screen time than the other transformers.

The arrow isn't nitpicking small comedy elements that ruin the movie, there was a bunch of others that he probably didn't touch upon, and that maybe I just mentioned that were also the deal breaker towards why the movie was bad.

I am sorry you did not like the movie at all. You have stated it like 20 times now. I get it. I still love the movie, but by all means repeat it 20 more times.

Are you a Met fan?

[Mr.HyDe807]

I am sorry you did not like the movie at all. You have stated it like 20 times now. I get it. I still love the movie, but by all means repeat it 20 more times.

Are you a Met fan?

Well, the reason why i have to state it 20 times is because of the way your oblivious towards the reasons people hate it. You act like the comedy was minuscule in the movie, and treat people like there are some high and mighty elitist who nit picks a movie to pieces. I went into this movie hoping it to be at least enjoyable to some degree, not deciding "hey, there was one unfunny part....DOWN WITH MOVIE!". It was when a bunch of unfunny moments begin to occur, the middle part dragged, and the last battle scene wasn't as enjoyable as the first half that I thought "Shit, I can't believe how disappointing this movie was".

Oh, and what does being a met fan have to do with anything? You got a zinger on how they aren't good, and compare that to the way I treat movies?

Make that 21 times, in case you need to keep score.

[Abbie Normal]

Well, the reason why i have to state it 20 times is because of the way your oblivious towards the reasons people hate it. You act like the comedy was minuscule in the movie, and treat people like there are some high and mighty elitist who nit picks a movie to pieces. I went into this movie hoping it to be at least enjoyable to some degree, not deciding "hey, there was one unfunny part....DOWN WITH MOVIE!". It was when a bunch of unfunny moments begin to occur, the middle part dragged, and the last battle scene wasn't as enjoyable as the first half that I thought "Shit, I can't believe how disappointing this movie was".

Oh, and what does being a met fan have to do with anything? You got a zinger on how they aren't good, and compare that to the way I treat movies?

Make that 21 times, in case you need to keep score.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r102/takravd/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

You need to calm down. I only wanted to know your opinion on the new stadium. I am a Yankee fan and I hate our new homer park, but also do not like your canyon stadium.

[Mr.HyDe807]

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r102/takravd/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

You need to calm down. I only wanted to know your opinion on the new stadium. I am a Yankee fan and I hate our new homer park, but also do not like your canyon stadium.

:p

I am calm, I'm not a fan of either Mets or Yanks, I like them both, and haven't gone to the stadium. I'm going for the Paul McCartney concert on July 21 at Citifield, so that would be the first time I'm going there.

Only reason i need to beat this dead horse is because you seem to think people are going after the little things of the movie, and when I try to let you know that people are nit picking, you seem to just go back to the fact that I hated the movie, when all I'm trying to do is give you a little perspective on how there is more than your assumption that people don't like this movie over one little thing.

[Abbie Normal]

:p

I am calm, I'm not a fan of either Mets or Yanks, I like them both, and haven't gone to the stadium. I'm going for the Paul McCartney concert on July 21 at Citifield, so that would be the first time I'm going there.

Only reason i need to beat this dead horse is because you seem to think people are going after the little things of the movie, and when I try to let you know that people are nit picking, you seem to just go back to the fact that I hated the movie, when all I'm trying to do is give you a little perspective on how there is more than your assumption that people don't like this movie over one little thing.

You can't like both teams. That is a NY rule. Must pick Giants or Jets, Islanders or Rangers, and Yankees or Mets and coming soon Nets or Knicks. I did not make the rule. It was made up by 660.

[Mr.HyDe807]

You can't like both teams. That is a NY rule. Must pick Giants or Jets, Islanders or Rangers, and Yankees or Mets and coming soon Nets or Knicks. I did not make the rule. It was made up by 660.

Well, concerning Football and Hockey, I'm a Ranger and Giants fan. However, i cant choose a baseball team, so i pick both, regardless of this cardinal rule.

Let's stay on topic with the Transformer rant, shall we? There's a sports forum for this kind of thing.

[Abbie Normal]

Well, concerning Football and Hockey, I'm a Ranger and Giants fan. However, i cant choose a baseball team, so i pick both, regardless of this cardinal rule.

Let's stay on topic with the Transformer rant, shall we? There's a sports forum for this kind of thing.

Nah, I am done fighting with you. You and I have different views and that is probably how it will stay. Say what you like. I am done.

[Mr.HyDe807]

Nah, I am done fighting with you. You and I have different views and that is probably how it will stay. Say what you like. I am done.

Of course we have different views, I'm bringing up the fact that you think the reason people gave up on this movie is over the smallest comedic thing, which isn't the case since the movie was filled with unfunny moments that probably took the people who didn't like the flick out of the movie, and you're going towards the fact that I keep repeating myself.

Fine by me though, I'm through trying to give you an idea that people (ie: The Arrow, hence where this argument came from) didn't hate this movie just because of dog humping.

[The Arrow]

So the little insignificant part where Mojo is humping the other dog, that happened in the first 5 minutes of the movie, ruined the whole rest of the movie for you? Or the other insignificant so called comedy parts that had nothing to do with the plot or the fact that it is an action movie ruined the whole movie for? You don't think that you are knit picking a bit?

Tell me you hated the plot, I'd buy that. Tell me you hated the movie, because there is only one decent character development, I'd buy that. Tell me you were dizzy from the fights scenes, where you could not distinguish one robot from the other, I'd buy that.

To me, from what I gather from what you are saying about TF2 is EXACTLY the same thing if I said I hated Pulp Fiction, because in one scene Honey Bunny says her speech to the customers in the diner and then when the scene was replayed near the end of the movie, a line is changed. Or when Travolta or Jackson (I forget which) gun is cocked open from running out of bullets, but later when the scene is replayed after the shooting, the gun is not cocked or out of bullets (or vice versa, I forget). Or I just didn't like Uma's big feet and those are the reasons why I hated Pulp Fiction. Those things have very little to do with the great movie that Pulp Fiction is and anyone saying those things would probably be laughed off this site.



My grand kids will laugh at that those weak reasons. I will teach my children (and they will in turn teach their children) to look beyond the little things and look at the bigger picture. I will also tell my grand children how President Obama put us in so much debt that not only will they be paying off his bills, but their grand children's, children as well. I will also tell them that after CA went bankrupt, because they did not want to cut any social programs their grand dad had to leave the state for a more fiscally responsible state.

Yeah Mojo banging some other pooch gave me a clear indication that I was in for a childish and grating ride – and I was right. The film lost whatever grasps it had on me at that point and never managed to get me back. I respect the fact that you remember the dog’s name though – props!

I actually think the so called plot (one that looked like it was made up as they went along) was just as LOUSY as the American Pie comedy.

I never said that the fact that it was an action movie ruined it for me. Don’t put words in my ass man. And for an action movie – it was pretty fucking weak in that department. Too much bla-bla about a plot I couldn’t give two shits about and not enough “bang goes the bells” over the course of 2 hours and a half.

I hated it cause of the comedy, the shit story, the lagging pace, the lack of action spread throughout (last 20 minutes were fun if not overlong), the dumb ass plot turns (I almost vomited in my mouth when that geizer Decepticon ripped out his heart and gave it to Prime - urg) – actually my asinine review says it all:
http://www.joblo.com/arrow/reviews.php?id=1310

Hey to each his own! Good for you that you dug it! Sucks for me that I didn’t – I wasted time and money on that crap.

PS: If you have grand daughters – give me a call when they’re legal, we’ll all go and get some hot-dogs and ice cream : )

[Abbie Normal]

Of course we have different views, I'm bringing up the fact that you think the reason people gave up on this movie is over the smallest comedic thing, which isn't the case since the movie was filled with unfunny moments that probably took the people who didn't like the flick out of the movie, and you're going towards the fact that I keep repeating myself.

Fine by me though, I'm through trying to give you an idea that people (ie: The Arrow, hence where this argument came from) didn't hate this movie just because of dog humping.

Some people for all different reasons. It is all a matter of opinion.


Yeah Mojo banging some other pooch gave me a clear indication that I was in for a childish and grating ride – and I was right. The film lost whatever grasps it had on me at that point and never managed to get me back. I respect the fact that you remember the dog’s name though – props!

I actually think the so called plot (one that looked like it was made up as they went along) was just as LOUSY as the American Pie comedy.

I never said that the fact that it was an action movie ruined it for me. Don’t put words in my ass man. And for an action movie – it was pretty fucking weak in that department. Too much bla-bla about a plot I couldn’t give two shits about and not enough “bang goes the bells” over the course of 2 hours and a half.

I hated it cas (I almost vomituse of the comedy, the shit story, the lagging pace, the lack of action spread throughout (last 20 minutes were fun if not overlong), the dumb ass plot turned in my mouth when that geizer Decepticon ripped out his heart and gave it to Prime - urg) – actually my asinine review says it all:
http://www.joblo.com/arrow/reviews.php?id=1310

Hey to each his own! Good for you that you dug it! Sucks for me that I didn’t – I wasted time and money on that crap.

PS: If you have grand daughters – give me a call when they’re legal, we’ll all go and get some hot-dogs and ice cream : )


If I have the time and I hate the movie I just saw, I walk into another movie that I liked or will like. Balances out the day. Can we invite Michael Bay along too? I hear he loves hot dogs and ice cream.

[Z_oasis]

Hey abbie, Yahoo.com entertainment section had an article calling the TOP 10 Plotholes of Transformers 2. Thought you could clear this up or have a laugh or 10.

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/smg-transformers-10-questions.html

"Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" made over $200 million last week. What it didn't make, however, was one lick of sense.

Now, suspension of disbelief is usually not a problem for me. Tell me that a billionaire could put on a bat suit and swoop around fighting crime and I'll buy it. Or that a different billionaire could build flying armor in his basement. Or that in the future people will beam onto spaceships with their pointy-eared best friend. I'll accept all of it. I'll even take your word for it that a mechanized alien race can come to our planet, scan some cars, and turn themselves into vehicles.

That being said, there were moments in this new "Transformers" movie that were so confusing, so contradictory, or so corny that they completely took me out of the movie. Even days after watching it, some new inconsistency or plot hole would pop into my mind.

I can hear it already: "It's a popcorn movie. It's based on a bunch of toys. It's just supposed to be fun." And yes, all of those things are true. But that doesn't mean I can't ask questions about what in the world was going on. Here are the ten that I most want answered. (WARNING: contains spoilers).

1. In "Transformers," there was this giant battle in the middle of downtown Los Angeles -- excuse me, Mission City -- that was witnessed by thousands of people at the very least. But somehow the government was able to cover up the whole thing, and now the existence of alien robots is just an internet rumor? How did they do it? Pay off everyone who was there and quickly fix millions of dollars in damage? Also, didn't Keller (Jon Voight) go on TV and tell everyone we were being attacked by "a technological civilization far superior to our own"? How did they spin that?

2. There are two pieces of the Allspark cube left: the military has one under lock and key, and Sam discovers another. The Decepticons steal one and bring Megatron back to life. But when Sam (Shia LaBeouf) wants to bring back Optimus, he has to find the Matrix of Leadership on the other side of the globe. Why not use the other piece? Mikaela (Megan Fox) has it in her backpack the whole time. It brought his kitchen appliances to life, why can't it do the same for Optimus?

3. Speaking of Megatron's rebirth, when the Decepticons venture deep into the ocean to revive him, the Navy crew tracking them reads five contacts. When they get down there, they tear apart one of the robots for parts to rebuild Megatron. Then as they rise to the surface, the same Navy guys say they spot six contacts. The little "Doctor" robot popped out down there, but he's about a third of the size of a person. Would he have shown up on sonar?

4. That reminds me: even if I were to forgive the Doctor's German accent -- and director Michael Bay is asking me to forgive a lot of ridiculous accents -- why would a robot need glasses? He has little lenses that flip in front of his mechanical eyes. Couldn't he just get his eyes adjusted? You'd think with all the laser guns, someone could perform a Lasik procedure.

5. Apparently, Transformers can look like people now. How? And how is it that even though the robo-girl (Isabel Lucas) is made of metal, she can still straddle Sam without crushing him. And if Bumblebee knows something's wrong with her, why does he spit antifreeze at her instead of telling Sam? Yes, his voicebox is broken, but wasn't it fixed at the end of the last movie?

6. The Fallen is the last of the Primes, since they all sacrificed themselves to stop him from destroying the sun. But then he says that Optimus is a descendant of the Primes. First, Transformers have kids? And second, how could he descend from them if they were all dead? And if the Fallen could only be destroyed by a Prime, why didn't the originals just gang up on him back in the day? And what makes Optimus so special, anyway? Megatron beat him earlier, but all it takes is a few spare parts from creaky old Jetfire for him to take out the Fallen?

7. Sam, Mikaela, and Simmons (John Turturro) go to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington D.C. to find Jetfire. Then they walk out the back onto a wide open field with old planes and mountains in the distance. When did the National Mall start to look so much like to Tucson, AZ (where they really filmed that scene)?

8. The geography is just as bad when they go to Egypt. The stone city of Petra in Jordan is over 250 miles away, over mountainous terrain, with few paved roads and the Israeli border between them, so how can they drive from one to the other in a couple of hours. And the Pyramids are said to be shooting distance from the Mediterranean, but they are actually well over 80 miles inland. Even if the Navy ship had a secret rail gun, and even if the captain would take an order to fire from a former agent of a government branch that no longer exists (over a walkie-talkie that inexplicably starts working again), how could it hit a moving target from that distance?

9. Sam briefly dies and goes to Robot Heaven. Robot Heaven?!?!

10. Where does Sam's bandage come from? What about his extra sock? Why does Sam's roommate not contribute anything at all? What was the Fallen doing for those thousands of years Megatron was frozen in ice? How does one satellite receive transmissions from everywhere on the planet? Why does Wheelie hump Mikaela's leg? Why do we have to see John Turturro's thong? Why are robots who join together to become Devastator also seen fighting the Army at the same time? Why does the government want only our military fighting Decepticons when our weapons seem unable to make so much as a dent on any of them? Why did the ancient Egyptians build a pyramid around the sun-destroying machines instead of just breaking it? Why is the Matrix of Leadership bigger in the Fallen's hand than in Sam's? And how do Mikaela's pants stay so clean?



...Good Luck. (**In the way Lucious Fox said it in The Dark Knight**)

[Potzer! 37]

Question:

Which is more annoying: a movie that makes a shitload of money that most people hate one few people love with extremely vocal supporters or a movie that makes a shitload of money that most people love and few people hate with extremely vocal supporters?

I think I have to go with the latter as last year's barrage of Dark Knight love had a lot more mass behind it than the few threads I've seen about Transformers II...but this thread is tipping the blance I gotta say...

And please do answer the questions from yahoo as they pretty much summed up my big problems with the film...it was entertaining of course by well below average...it's a little bit worse than Spider-man III for me (which I really hated).

And, assuming you think that list is rude or written from a place of blind hatred or whatever, please just answer me this: what was a human looking robot doing in this movie? You can't call something that out of place, however limited it was in screentime, trivial...it was confusing and took me out of the movie because I kept expecting her or another one of her kind to show up or be explained.

[razgriz21]

Transformers 2 is better than (in my opinion):

the Spider-Man trilogy
X-Men 3
Live Free or Die Hard
Paul Blart Mall Cop
Terminator Salvation
17 Again
Obsessed
Charlie's Angels 1-2

[Potzer! 37]

What a strange list...I get why the big action movies are in there, but why 17 Again, Mall Cop and Obsessed?

[ericdraven]

I don't get why people bring up the dogs humping or the racist robots..when they were like insignificant enough for the moviegoer to forget it in nanseconds. I mean, fuck. I didn't care for the characters, and I thought some parts were so overdone that it was crazy. I just found some parts stupidly hilarous.

[SAI]

Seeing it today. Will report back

[Reigh Kaufman]

Transformers 2 is better than (in my opinion):

the Spider-Man trilogy
X-Men 3
Live Free or Die Hard
Paul Blart Mall Cop
Terminator Salvation
17 Again
Obsessed
Charlie's Angels 1-2

That's no recommendation. It's arguing over which shit is the brownest.

[chinton]

To kind of flip this around I don't really understand this reasoning that people are hating just cause they really want to hate Bay.

Let me say again that Bay is capable of making a good all around i.e. The Rock.

As far as Transformers 2 the reason why the original worked as well as it did was because of the central origin story concerning Sam. It was fresh and kind of campy and silly but in a good way. Here that novelty is long gone and whats left is all the flaws the original had maxed out to 10. Yes it looks gorgeous with great special effects but its terrible in every other department to story, character, and simple things like editing and geographical orientation.

[Shockwave]

To kind of flip this around I don't really understand this reasoning that people are hating just cause they really want to hate Bay.

Let me say again that Bay is capable of making a good all around i.e. The Rock.

As far as Transformers 2 the reason why the original worked as well as it did was because of the central origin story concerning Sam. It was fresh and kind of campy and silly but in a good way. Here that novelty is long gone and whats left is all the flaws the original had maxed out to 10. Yes it looks gorgeous with great special effects but its terrible in every other department to story, character, and simple things like editing and geographical orientation.

I thought it was simply a matter of this movie being written very, very fast. And sloppy. So crazy sloppy.

Bay did alot better pulling out of the action this time around, but the final fight was a 10 minute mess of explosions and nonsense. How all the good guys made it out without any real casualities is beyond me. The Autobots were invulnerable while the Decepticons were made of tissue paper.


Megatron seemed twice as strong in the first movie. The Fallen did not even have a purpose other then randomly showing up to get his ass kicked at the end.

[Abbie Normal]

Hey abbie, Yahoo.com entertainment section had an article calling the TOP 10 Plotholes of Transformers 2. Thought you could clear this up or have a laugh or 10.

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/smg-transformers-10-questions.html




...Good Luck. (**In the way Lucious Fox said it in The Dark Knight**)

Nice find! I will give it a try. I can not guarantee that any of answers are any good or funny.


1. People in LA are stupid and they were probably bought off with a promise that Obama would be President. Or they just said it was OJ trying to escape again and in LA OJ can do no wrong. The announcement by Voight was actually only aired by NBC and as we all know, no one watches NBC anymore.

2. They did not watch the fucking movie. If they had, they would know they used the piece for Jetfire to bring him back to life.

3. I guess he was big enough to show up on sonar. What a stupid reason.

4. It was explained in the first movie that the transformers learned pretty much everything from the world wide web. They had personalities and accents in the first one and expanded from there. Why would a transformer have glasses? Maybe he just wanted to look smarter, because many doctors look smarter when they wear glasses. Another stupid point.

5. It is possible that when Bumblebee was talking, it too was a recorded clip. No one said it was his real voice and his voice was now fixed for no reason. That was all assumed. The transformer girl was totally stupid, but this issue should also be taken up with Terminator 2 and 3.

6. Jet fire was also a Prime. The movie said those were the last Primes there on that part of Earth at that time. No one said there weren't other Primes elsewhere in the universe looking for suns to use as energy. According to the little guy in Megan's purse there are other Primes hiding, but went to Jetfire because he was the smartest. Why can't Primes be promoted? These are stupid points to argue. We have not yet had the entire history of the tranformers laid out for us.

7. Yeah, I was thinking that too. I guess Bay assumes we know nothing about DC. Small point to worry about.

8. Most Americans can not point out where Iraq is on a globe, what makes the writer of this article think Americans know anything about the geography of that whole area? And who cares? Most movies are not made in the cities or countries that they are supposed to take place in.

9. No robot heaven. Sam traveled into the matrix. I have an article in a post within this thread that explain this further.

10. All of these questions here to me are just a bunch of silly questions that someone who hated the movie will make to further enhance their point of view. If you applied this same logic to most sci fi films, they too would not stand up. Most of the questions can be answered by just saying, "Because it is a movie" or "without it there wouldn't be a movie"

It is very easy to pile on this movie, because there are so many Bay haters and it is such a big movie. What I said does not mean that my opinion is right and everyone else is wrong. If the writer of that article did not like the movie, that is fine, but I id explain many of his questions. Some people did the same thing with The Dark Knight this time last year. Why can't we just suspend belief and ignore some things in fantasy movies like this one?


The end of the article not in your post. The key to me is the users of that site gave it a solid B+.

OK, so I went overboard at the end, but the questions remain. And I'm sure more will pop up next time I think about the movie. But the movie did make a ton of money, and it's earned a solid B+ rating from our users. Maybe I should go see it again. My questions probably won't get answered in a second viewing, but if I can just clear them from my mind I can be in Robot Heaven, too.

[The Heart Collector]

Let me say again that Bay is capable of making a good all around i.e. The Rock.

The Rock is an egregious pile of shit.

[Cop No. 633]

This thread has Michael Bay's personal stamp of approval.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x53/cosmicpuppet/BayJob.jpg

[SAI]

Reviewed (at length) here (http://www.joblo.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3068393#post3068393)

[Abbie Normal]

Thou art a funny man

[Potter82]

The Rock is an egregious pile of shit.

Seconded! That is one over rated movie and I don't understand why people love it so much.

It contains every single one of Bay's worst traits; stereotypical "comedic" characters (the gay barber), rampant sexism (the hot yet stupid girlfriend), shaky camera work, cheesy displays of hyper-patriotism (a lot of slow mo walking set to dramatic music with flags waving in the background), and ADHD inspired shots. Also, there's plenty of out of place Washington intrigue. Here's the problem I have with Bay's action scenes - they aren't long enough. Sure plenty of stuff blows up but it isn't shot very good (like during the out of place chase scene, the camera is often focused on Connery and Cage peering over the wheel - who cares, move the damn camera back!) and is over far too quickly. Worst of all; campy, unfunny, unnecessary attempts at humour occur throughout - he always does this and needs to be told to fucking stop.

[Jon Lyrik]

All true. But The Rock did it less painfully and with a much bigger sense of fun than anything Bay has made since. His current movies are like getting a concussion.

[JoNuggs]

I'm a Michael Bay defender. I don't like all of his movies and I recognize them for the popcorn schlock that they are. I respect him because of his technical prowess. He might love exploding things and hot women more than the young boys in his fan base, but the man gets movies made. That doesn't necessarily speak to his talent as a director, but I respect the guy for little things like efficiency. I can't fault a guy too much when he can nail 70 setups in a day whereas many other directors will only shoot 10. I also respect the fact that it doesn't seem that he has any grand delusions. I'm fairly certain that he knows his movies won't win any oscars.

That being said, I went into TF2 with really low expectations. I came out and thought the movie was worse than what I had expected.

Abbie, I dig that you liked it. That's great. I love Top Secret and know plenty of people who hate on it. Understand though that it's not one or two small things that spoil the film for some people - it's a lot of small things that compound the plot holes and other deficient elements and result in spoiling the experience.

I agree completely with most of the things that were mentioned in the Yahoo article and, frankly, your defense to some of the issues was lacking. You say that it's a ". . .small point. . ." to harp on that there isn't a vast mountain range and airplane graveyard behind the Air and Space museum. Well you know what? I live and grew up in the DC metro area and that right there aided in breaking my suspension of disbelief. Now people that don't live in this area might not be bothered by this, I'll concede that, but it communicates to me that the director doesn't care about too much about realism (yes, I know it's a film about giant robots but meet me halfway) and there was little regard granted to continuity. Even from the establishing shot of the Air and Space museum you could tell that these things didn't exist behind the museum. It's sloppy editing, sloppy direction, and lackluster filmmaking.

I get the point that the Autobots learned about culture through the worldwide web but that doesn't excuse the blackface portrayal of the twins in the least. I rest the blame for this, however, largely on Orici, Kurtzman, and Kruger but I don't relieve Bay from his complicity in the matter. I was in a theater with a lot of African Americans and, quite frankly, it seemed as if the majority of them were not amused, and they had every right to be offended. And, yes, I know that you agree that the portrayal of the twins was excessive but - yes - this could kill the movie for some.

Why is it that Megatron didn't call on the Fallen in the first film? Simply because Optimus was around? Okay, I'm cool with that I guess. But- where the hell did all of the other decepticons, the ones that Megatron called in for the end battle, come from? If he had the capability to summon these guys at will, why didn't he do so in the first film or throughout the second? I'll tell you why - shitty writing.

I can appreciate your defense of the Matrix (wikipedia? your explanation seem to come straight from an external source as it was more well written than most of your arguments) but what stands out about this isn't the fact that there is a "robot heaven" or that one can travel inside the matrix - it's that a human travels inside the matrix. Now I never read the comics, but was a huge fan of the cartoon, so my knowledge of the TF mythology is somewhat limited, but I don't recall it being established anywhere that a human could travel within the matrix. I could have maybe even excused it if Optimus or other Autobots had acknowledged this fact within the movie but the fact of the matter is that it doesn't jibe with the established mythology within the movies. It's one thing to push the allspark cube into the chest of of a transformer, that is something that I can deal with because Optimus explicity tells Sam to do so in the first movie. No explanation is given, nor is it even alluded to, that a human can travel within the matrix. It's a disparity that is tough to get over. And I blame this on Orici, Kurtzman, and Kruger for very, very lazy storytelling.

Further, the "Pretender" robot isn't explained at all. Once again - lazy storytelling. It is never hinted at within the movies that there is a subset of Transformers that are disguised like this. Sure, it was a part of the toyline and comics, but the movies are rather disparate from the source so I think that they can largely be considered a separate entity so to throw her in the mix without any proper explanation - and completely waste her character - is not only a plot hole, but is also bad storytelling. If they are capable of disguising themselves as humans, why isn't it done more often? It sure would make it a hell of a lot easier to get to Sam, or even take over the Earth.

And, no, you can't level the same complaints about the Pretender at T2 or T3 - those movies explicitly involved robots hiding in synthetic flesh to accomplish their mission and it was stated within the very first movie.

And what about the magic? The Fallen stands atop the pyramid and uses what is basically magic to toss the building stones from the pyramid around in the air to destroy the airplanes. Look, I can buy the ". . .advanced technology being no different than magic. . ." bit (to paraphrase), but none of the Transformers have ever exhibited any type of genuine magical abilities. This guy is a sorcerer and to not explain that in any manner is, once again, awful storytelling. Again, it is never once alluded to that the Transformers have telekinetic abilities or magical powers of any sort. You're asking a hell of a lot from me to believe in photorealistic, transforming, sentient robots, I can fathom that at a certain level, but then to give them magical powers? It sounds rather silly but - that's stretching.

Oh, your rebuttal to the first plothole that the yahoo article identified? You never really rebutted their argument at all, you made inane excuses.

Also, your reasoning behind Bumblebee's voice not returning is lackluster as well. Even in terms of a basic visual language, the way that scene was set up and filmed at the end of the first film, leaves very, very little room to believe that it wasn't Bumblebee's true voice. Different approaches could have - should have - been employed if they were trying to tell us otherwise. Further, seeing as how it was the only real line of dialogue that they Bumblebee had, it seems that the intent is there. Further, if they can bring characters back from the grave then it makes absolutely no sense that they couldn't fix his voice in the two years that the Transformers have been on the Earth.

The movie jumped around entirely too much. That's not a commentary on the editing - although Bay loves his quick cuts -, it's a commentary on a fragmented and rushed script.

I'll nitpick something too. Jetfire had a goddamned robot beard. Now, for sure, he was supposed to be older, etc. but him having a beard alludes to the fact that, at some point, he had robot stubble and that robot razors existed on Cybertron. Yeah. . .okay.

Devastator's testicles? Really? Okay, I get the sight gag but, once again - utter nonsense. Not only that, but they completely, utterly, wasted this character. I wanted to see that giant agglomeration of robots knocking down buildings, etc. I was happier than a pig in shit when I learned that they were going to feature him in the flick. And then irritated when they did so little with him. The rail gun was a fun little bit though.

I've never bought the chemistry between Sam and Mikaela. That's just me though, and I think that I can attribute it to Megan Fox's vapidness and lack of presenting herself as more than anything but a f**ckdoll fantasy of Bay's. It's tough to believe that she really cares for him when in many scenes it looks as if she can't wait to get away before Shia kisses her. They have zero chemistry.

I also don't buy the rivalry between Starscream and Megatron. They have not explained it, have spent little time on it, and should have explored it more.

The end fight was terribly anticlimactic. The problem with this is that I never once believed that the Autobots were in any true danger. There is no risk, there is no reward. The only Autobots I saw get hit, really, were a couple of the bikes, characters that we had no emotional attachment to and, therefore, little reason to care. The one exception being Optimus but, even in the animated series they took a little time before bringing Optimus back. You need that tension. You need to believe that they really are going to lose, that the odds are stacked against them. The matrix crumbling just didn't provide that, nor did Optimus' death.

Look, Abbie, I grew up loving the Transformers. I watched it everyday when I was a kid. It's the reason I got into scifi. My grandfather used to watch it with me when I was about four or five and started reading science fiction to me and watching scifi movies with me. My love of scifi is a big reason why I went to film school and am trying to get into filmmaking. But there were too many deficiencies in this movie that added up to shitty filmmaking.

I'm not saying I know more than anybody or that someone is wrong to enjoy this movie. There were things that I enjoyed about it too, but the ludicrous elements, from large to small, made the movie much worse than it could have been. The script was horrible, the plot was cliched (although that is to be expected), some of the FX work didn't look finished (almost pre-viz, really), the acting was stale (except, maybe Shia and John T.) - don't get me started on Sam's ridiculous roomate, the awful attempts at humor, the nascent racism, the plot holes. . . should I go on?

Hey, I'm glad that you really enjoyed the movie. I'm glad that it made a wad of cash because it gives them the chance to make a third movie that could totally redeem the franchise (in my eyes) at this point. To base your defense of the movie on a 25 year old cartoon and i's obscure mythology that not many people know about, as well as excusing away many valid points as ". . .small points. . ." when they really begin to add up, isn't really a grand defense, it's one that reaches.

As I mentioned, I respect Bay from a technical standpoint, and I've enjoyed most of his movies on a purely popcorn level. It doesn't speak to your intelligence if you like his movies, what speaks to your intelligence is how willing you are to dial up your suspension of disbelief for ALL of Michael Bay's films - all of them. And typically I'm more than happy to do so, but Revenge of the Fallen just had way too many things wrong with it for me to enjoy it as much as you did.

It's nothing personal. I just don't buy your defense of the movie and think that your arguments are, mostly, weak.

[Abbie Normal]

As I mentioned, I respect Bay from a technical standpoint, and I've enjoyed most of his movies on a purely popcorn level. It doesn't speak to your intelligence if you like his movies, what speaks to your intelligence is how willing you are to dial up your suspension of disbelief for ALL of Michael Bay's films - all of them. And typically I'm more than happy to do so, but Revenge of the Fallen just had way too many things wrong with it for me to enjoy it as much as you did.

It's nothing personal. I just don't buy your defense of the movie and think that your arguments are, mostly, weak.

LOL That is the nicest disagreement I have ever read. I felt like you were trying to kiss my ass as you slap my face. Kidding. So we disagree. I am sorry you paid for a movie you did not like.

I will touch on a few things.
Megatron didn't call on the Fallen in the first film, because as soon as he woke up, he started kicking ass. I don't recall all the details of The Fallen. He might have been in Cybertron this whole time and just now came back to earth to carry out his revenge.

The Matrix: I remember Sam was told he had to earn the right to hold the Matrix and Bay made it a point twice to show how the sands of the Matrix were falling out of the sock onto him, thus joining him in the Matrix. Sam earned it.

And, no, you can't level the same complaints about the Pretender at T2 or T3 - those movies explicitly involved robots hiding in synthetic flesh to accomplish their mission and it was stated within the very first movie. Wanna bet? I will never buy the fact that "liquid metal" will be able to form into human skin and clothing. That is completely stupid and unbelievable, but I overlook it as an important element to the character within the story. It is the same thing as in TF2. In TF2, the Pretender could have and should have been left out. It was like an accuse to get another hot chick in the movie. Sad.

you made inane excuses. To me, they were inane reasons.

Bumblebee's voice: If it seemed to get fixed all by itself, why can;t it break again all by itself. This is really such a minor point, is it really worth thinking about? I wonder why Bay even bothered.

robot beard. Some Transformers had beards in the cartoon.

Devastator's testicles: It was funny. Nitpicking to me.

Sam and Mikaela: Fox is in this for marketing and money. That is all. As I have stated before (somewhere) most girls do not make it to the sequel of an action movie unless they are a major character. She is super hot and that is all that matters, not chemistry.

Starscream and Megatron: It is based on the cartoon. You know that. Why can't people in the know get some inside stuff? Maybe, just maybe, it is being setup for things in the future.


Again, I am sorry you did not like this movie and wasted your money. I enjoyed it.

[JoNuggs]

LOL That is the nicest disagreement I have ever read. I felt like you were trying to kiss my ass as you slap my face. Kidding. So we disagree. I am sorry you paid for a movie you did not like.

No need to say you're sorry. Seeing movies is always a bit of a gamble.

I will touch on a few things.
Megatron didn't call on the Fallen in the first film, because as soon as he woke up, he started kicking ass. I don't recall all the details of The Fallen. He might have been in Cybertron this whole time and just now came back to earth to carry out his revenge.

I'm pretty sure that Optimus mentions that Cybertron was destroyed. If so, that leads to another plot hole - why has the Fallen just been chilling out in space for so long?

The Matrix: I remember Sam was told he had to earn the right to hold the Matrix and Bay made it a point twice to show how the sands of the Matrix were falling out of the sock onto him, thus joining him in the Matrix. Sam earned it.

I'd be willing to say that the two small cutaways that they show are not effective in communicating this. They are focused on bringing Optimus back to life - not getting Sam within the matrix. Once again, there's a disconnect here that I chalk up to bad filmmaking and lazy storytelling.

And, no, you can't level the same complaints about the Pretender at T2 or T3 - those movies explicitly involved robots hiding in synthetic flesh to accomplish their mission and it was stated within the very first movie. Wanna bet? I will never buy the fact that "liquid metal" will be able to form into human skin and clothing. That is completely stupid and unbelievable, but I overlook it as an important element to the character within the story. It is the same thing as in TF2. In TF2, the Pretender could have and should have been left out. It was like an accuse to get another hot chick in the movie. Sad.

Okay, so we're in agreement that the Pretender really didn't need to be in there. Let me get this straight though - you're willing to suspend your disbelief for giant, testicle-having, robots that can mimic earth vehicles at the slightest glance (scan. . .whatever) but you refuse to believe that ". . .'liquid metal' will be able to form into human skin and clothing"? Okay. I think that's a bit of a stretch but, to each his own.

you made inane excuses. To me, they were inane reasons.

No. You made very reaching generalizations that are, largely, inadequate. That is not even a colloquial definition of a reason. It defies argument because it is, essentially, unquantifiable and based largely on opinion and not fact. Once again, nothing personal, but I think that I disagree with this statement more than anything.

Bumblebee's voice: If it seemed to get fixed all by itself, why can;t it break again all by itself. This is really such a minor point, is it really worth thinking about? I wonder why Bay even bothered.

Yes, it is worth thinking about given the emphasis placed upon the relationship between "a boy and his first car". Once again, it is also a smaller detail that adds to the growing mound of issues that drag the movie down. And if it is such a minor point that isn't worth thinking about, then it should have been a fairly minor consideration to fix.

robot beard. Some Transformers had beards in the cartoon.

Yeah, and that really bugged me too. It simply makes no sense. There is no reason to believe that a lifeform so dissimilar from ourselves would have to resemble us aesthetically. It is, largely, and attempt to familiarize us with the alien robots and make them more anthropomorphic. Not quite a failure of concept or design but something that just bugs the hell out of me. ;)

Devastator's testicles: It was funny. Nitpicking to me.

Sure. Like I said, it kind of worked as a sight gag, regardless of how silly it may have been. John Turturro's performance really made much of the second half of the movie for me, but it still couldn't save the flick.

Sam and Mikaela: Fox is in this for marketing and money. That is all. As I have stated before (somewhere) most girls do not make it to the sequel of an action movie unless they are a major character. She is super hot and that is all that matters, not chemistry.

Agree to disagree. Chemistry matters to the point where it should craft an element of sympathy for the characters. The fact that it didn't further contributed to breaking my disbelief and, therefore, my catharsis.


Starscream and Megatron: It is based on the cartoon. You know that. Why can't people in the know get some inside stuff? Maybe, just maybe, it is being setup for things in the future.

Sure, I'll concede the latter point. But if you look at it through the lens of "insider knowledge" it should become apparent that too much fan-service can break a film. If you're going to work the rivalry into the film, do it well. Don't just throw it in there without explanation or exploration - that's taking the audience's knowledge of the property for granted.

Again, I am sorry you did not like this movie and wasted your money. I enjoyed it.

Once again, it's cool - movies are always a gamble. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I love going to the movies and am comfortable with the odds.

[zombievictim]

Jo Nuggs, that was definitely one hell of an argument. Had I actually liked the movie, you may have convinced me to rethink some things.

[Abbie Normal]

No need to say you're sorry. Seeing movies is always a bit of a gamble.


Take note Schmoes, this man knows how to have an discussion in a polite manner. Hats off to you JoNuggs. We totally disagree and can do it with class.




Oh, one thing I did not think of. Sam did not seem phased at all by the fact that Bee was not talking. That would lead me to believe this has been happening for a long time. Again, why Bay did this or used Bee so little is beyond me.

[The Heart Collector]

Matrix and "Robot Heaven" explained.


The Matrix of Leadership or Creation Matrix / Crystal Matrix in the fictional Transformers universes is the Autobot talisman of legend, passed down from leader to leader. It comprises an oval-shaped container, holding a glowing crystal. To open the Matrix is to release an unpredictable wave of power from the crystal. In some continuities, the Matrix seems to have an intelligence of its own, able to determine when and how it will be used. The Matrix also serves as a source of power, able to reformat a chosen Transformer (for example Hot Rod in the animated Transformers movie or Starscream in the G2 comic) into a higher-powered being, sometimes with a modified alternate mode. The transfer of the Matrix usually carries with it to the recipient, upon transformation, the title of Prime.

The Matrix of Leadership first appeared in the animated Transformers series in The Transformers: The Movie, when a dying Optimus Prime passed it to Ultra Magnus. Prime was the seventh holder of the Matrix - after the death of the sixth holder, Alpha Trion briefly kept the Matrix safe before bestowing it upon Optimus (presumably when he rebuilt Optimus from the dying body of Orion Pax).

Before passing away, Prime spoke of a prophecy - that one day, "The Chosen One" would rise from the ranks of the Autobots, and use the power of the Matrix to light the Transformers' darkest hour. That darkest hour soon came upon Cybertron in the form of the world-eater, Unicron, who knew that the Matrix's power was the one thing that could destroy him. Recreating Decepticon leader Megatron as Galvatron, he dispatched him to destroy the Matrix, but when Galvatron obtained the talisman, he tried and failed to use its power against Unicron. Ultimately, the Chosen One who could open the Matrix proved to be the youthful Hot Rod, who reclaimed the Matrix and was transformed by its power into Rodimus Prime, before opening it within Unicron and releasing its power, which tore Unicron apart from within.

As the animated series progressed, more was divulged about the nature of the Matrix that had not been explained in the movie. When injured in battle, Rodimus' consciousness briefly entered the Matrix itself, and he discovered that it was more than a mere source of energy - it, in fact, contained the amassed wisdom of deceased Autobot leaders throughout history (this was previously hinted at in The Transformers: The Movie when Hot Rod heard the voice of Optimus Prime as the Matrix turned him into Rodimus Prime, and even before that during Optimus's death scene when Optimus told those present not to grieve because "Soon I will be one with the Matrix."). Venturing into the Matrix a second time, Rodimus was shown the history of Cybertron by the ancient Autobots whose consciousnesses existed within the Matrix, revealing to him the Quintessons' role in the creation of the Transformers. When he was resurrected, Optimus Prime later did the same thing when faced with the Hate Plague, and came to a drastic conclusion - to cure the madness of the plague, he expelled all of the wisdom from within the Matrix, saving the universe, but emptying the Matrix and leaving only a shell.

five paragraphs about robot heaven, laffo

[Jon Lyrik]

Yeah, all the Transformers mythos is nothing but a construct to sell toys. That's all it ever was.

God, 70s/80s cartoons sucked.

[Heisenberg]

SPOILERSSSSSS!!!!!!1



I gotta say that the final battle was the worst thing I have ever seen on film. Like Jo Nuggs said, it was extremely anticlimactic. He finished off The fallen in literally half a minute. Why did they waste a seemingly awesome character? Michael Bay is a complete idiot, has the cheek to called the film Revenge of the Fallen. Then does that. Fucking biggest pile of bullshit.

[Abbie Normal]

five paragraphs about robot heaven, laffo

Thank you once again for your insightful and constructive thoughts. I don't know what we would do without you.

[Jon Lyrik]

Thing is, if it's just supposed to be a spectacle-filled popcorn flick, why gussy it up with all this bullshit?

[Shockwave]

I actualy 'got" that Sam went inside the Matrix for a brief time and it shocked him back to life, since Jet-fire said it was very powerful at bringing things back(i know that is not exactly what he said, but fuck it)

I got all that. I did not mind it even. I still have no idea how it worked for a human since it seemed to only be able to bring machines back. But still, i can roll with it.


The thing that bugged me to no end was how Megatron was brought back by a shard of the cube, but Prime could not be brought back by the shard that Sam had for the entire movie.

..and if a shard of the cube COULD bring back robotic life, why the hell did the Cube merging with Megatron kill him in the first movie? He should have been super-charged to hell and back, not dead.

..and why the the Fallen was afraid of Prime. Megatron was kicking his ass in the first movie, he wasn't any more special then any other Autobot(other then being a bad-ass). Jet-fire was the one to supercharge Prime (and win things for him)in a scene that pretty much made no sense at all, no matter how cool it was to look at. Felt like a rushed and sloppy way to end the fight. FAST. like the realized they ran out of time.

I still liked it as mindless popcorn fluff, i just wish we got something more. The first movie set things up so well and the script on this one just felt rushed to production.

Like i'm sure the next one will be.

[Abbie Normal]

The thing that bugged me to no end was how Megatron was brought back by a shard of the cube, but Prime could not be brought back by the shard that Sam had for the entire movie.

..and if a shard of the cube COULD bring back robotic life, why the hell did the Cube merging with Megatron kill him in the first movie? He should have been super-charged to hell and back, not dead.

Prime could have been brought back to life, but the holders of the piece of cube (Shia and Megan) did not know this until after they brought Jet fire back to life with it. There weren't any Autobots around to help the kids out.

In the first one, Ratchet had said the cube is raw power and too much power if one tried to merge with it. Think like using a 100000 watt light bulb in a lamp made for 60 watts.

I would have liked to see Shockwave's voice from the cartoon used.

[Shockwave]

In the first one, Ratchet had said the cube is raw power and too much power if one tried to merge with it. Think like using a 100000 watt light bulb in a lamp made for 60 watts.

I would have liked to see Shockwave's voice from the cartoon used.

Yeah, i was thinking that maybe it just overloaded the poor guy. I would like to see more on this when they make another movie since the cube is still merged in there with him somewhere. Maybe his ticket to turning into Galvatron?


Shockwave had such a bad-ass voice. I agree that i hope they use that(or Shockwave himself) in the next movie. My favorite Transformer for obvious reasons.

[JoNuggs]

Thanks, zombie!

Civil discussion on a thread is always welcome and, although I don't post too often, I visit the forums daily and have always liked most of the discussions.

I really wanted to like TF2. I didn't feel cheated or anything like that, but I thought that they had a pretty good foundation for doing some great things with the franchise. And they still can, I think. If anything, I chalk up my dislike of the film to very poor storytelling. Still, there were some cool things in there. I didn't dislike the flick in its entirety and am not surprised at how favorable it has been received by movie goers. I dig giant robots blowing things up quite a bit and I'm pretty average so, there you go.

I think that there is a place and, obviously, a market for entertaining movies like these but I don't necessarily think that they should all be exalted, or necessarily held up to the same criticisms that "films" (for lack of a better word) should be. It's okay for movies to be fun. It's okay for movies to be intelligent. And there's nothing wrong with enjoying either.

Except Delta Farce.

F**k Delta Farce. :D

[chinton]

I'm not saying that The rock is a great quality film but its the one Bay film in which the story is solid if nothing special with two engaging lead characters a nice balance of humor and a good concept. I don't think any of Bays other films found as good a balance

[ilovemovies]

God, 70s/80s cartoons sucked.

Blasphemy! I don't know about the 70's but 80's and early 90's cartoon rock!

[Shockwave]

I'm not saying that The rock is a great quality film but its the one Bay film in which the story is solid if nothing special with two engaging lead characters a nice balance of humor and a good concept. I don't think any of Bays other films found as good a balance

I think it is simply a case of he doesn't know when to stop with his movies. They suffer from so much bloat at times. Bad Boys(first one only), The Rock, and Transformers(the first one) are the ony movies he has done that do not suffer from overload of unwanted scenes/jokes/shit.

I'm glad he wants to give the moviegoer as much bang for the buck as he can, and even respect him for that, but sometimes less is more.

[ilovemovies]

I personally love most of Michael Bay's movies but I definitely will admit that most of them could use some trimming.

I think the first Bad Boys is his only movie that is just under 2 hours. And Bad Boys 2 was the worst offender. It's not Bay's longest movie (that would be Pearl Harbor) but it's the movie of his that is most way longer than it should be.

[ilovemovies]

Bad Boys(first one only), The Rock, and Transformers(the first one) are the ony movies he has done that do not suffer from overload of unwanted scenes/jokes/shit.




Disagree on Transformers.

And as awesome as the chase scene through San Fransisco near the begining is, when you think about it, it's actually pretty pointless and is extraneous to the plot.

[Shockwave]

Disagree on Transformers.

And as awesome as the chase scene through San Fransisco near the begining is, when you think about it, it's actually pretty pointless and is extraneous to the plot.


Yeah, but i kinda liked the slow build up, and the chase gave me just enough action to be happy until shit hit the fan.

Really, as far as pacing, i thought it was near perfect.


T2 kinda deflated after the forest battle. Up until that point it had me. Then it lost me until the overlong end battle that somehow bored me. Then Prime came back and the movie ended 2 minutes later. Whoopee. Great blink-and-u-miss-it final fight with The Fallen. Why are we here again?(i was asking myself that).

[Mr.HyDe807]

T2 kinda deflated after the forest battle. Up until that point it had me.

Yeah, what Shockwave said. granted, there were some pretty bad comedy parts, but the action more than made up for it. Then, the story becomes too bloated and just got on my nerves and patience.

[Jon Lyrik]

Blasphemy! I don't know about the 70's but 80's and early 90's cartoon rock!

Early 90s is an entirely different era from the 80s. Who Framed Roger Rabbit was the tipping point back.

[ilovemovies]

Early 90s is an entirely different era from the 80s. Who Framed Roger Rabbit was the tipping point back.

Wait, are you talking about tv or movies? Because I don't know about movies but tv cartoon rocked in both 80's and early 90's.

[Z_oasis]

Side note- When i see people refer to Transformers 2 as T2, it kinda makes me mad cuz we have had an epic sci fi action flick that changed cinema known as Terminator 2. Lets keep Transformers 2 as TF2.

My friends n i argued about that. Thought i'd share the funny.

[Reigh Kaufman]

Side note- When i see people refer to Transformers 2 as T2, it kinda makes me mad cuz we have had an epic sci fi action flick that changed cinema known as Terminator 2. Lets keep Transformers 2 as TF2.

My friends n i argued about that. Thought i'd share the funny.

Agreed. I personally call it TF2: ROFLLMFAO.

[Heisenberg]

Agreed. I personally call it TF2: ROFLLMFAO.

I personally call it TF2:SBUWEIC :p


Smacking Bitches Up While Eating Ice Cream

[HoyleHaw]

You can antagonize a movie all you like. That's what they're there for.

You can antagonize the movie-going public for making a movie that didn't deserve it a smash hit.

But personal opinions, if somebody in particular really enjoyed a movie you loathed, then don't tell them they're wrong, because it won't change their opinion and it'll just make them upset at you.

Two movies that have been unfairly lambasted for not living up to their hype are "Spider-Man 3" and "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull". The first suffered from being over-stuffed, pandering to please fan-boys, and not enough J.K. Simmons. The second wasn't a bad movie, but it was a bad Indiana Jones movie. Both of these films made oodles of money, and both received all sorts of hate from the very people most anticipating them.

It's an emotional thing. We all have opinions. I haven't seen TF2 because while I did like the first one, I didn't like it THAT much. So when critics came to throw stones, I decided to save my money and wait to see "Public Enemies" instead.

I like Michael Bay when he's not off the leash. He has a way of one way or the other drawing things out in his movies, but "The Rock" and "Bad Boys" are pretty taut films, though the latter is just a reworking of "Lethal Weapon" at its heart, and sub-par at that. And "The Island" could've been great if he didn't fall back into familiar trappings. The chases, while exciting, were overdone, but the creepy futuristic setting was pretty awesome. "Bad Boys 2" could've been as good as the first if they cut out half of what went on in there. Just too much. Too much action, too much down-time. And "Transformers" was similarly hampered, though it lacked the chemistry, but had superb special effects.

[Jon Lyrik]

Wait, are you talking about tv or movies? Because I don't know about movies but tv cartoon rocked in both 80's and early 90's.

Both. Movies slightly less so.

[RustyRazor]

I saw the first one.
Growing up the Transformers cartoon, which I really liked, I don't appreciate the CGI versions that were brought to the big screen.
And then they added Shia LaBouf.
And then they added Megan Fox.
Things got better with adding Jon Voight.
And then Jazz started talking slang.

Scatman Crothers, wherever you are, I apologize.

I want more substance to my action movies.
Bay's films have had more substance in the past.
Not much, but more than what I'm seeing in these films.
It really is a base formula.

CGI Robots
LaBouf
CGI
Other actors
EXPLOSIONS
CGI...EXPLOSIONS
Megan Fox "acting"
CGI
EXPLOSIONS
La Bouf running
CGI Robots running, portraying racist stereotypes
Megan Fox running
Jon Voight....
EXPLOSIONS
LaBouf again
CGI Robots saluting


There's a story in there somewhere but old Rusty doesn't have the energy amidst the million dollar explosions and CGI to weed it out.
Thanks, I'm gonna pass.
$400 million dollars in ticket sales says that people don't mind not having more substance to their films, which is sad but hey, what are you gonna do?
My $10 isn't in that pile o' dough.
And it won't be for any future sequels.

[Abbie Normal]

My $10 isn't in that pile o' dough.
And it won't be for any future sequels.

You will be back.

[Jig Saw 123]

To say people are producing unintended hatred towards this film is an overstatement. The reason people didn't like the film is because they've come to expect more from a blockbuster film. Bay uses the ploy of massive explosions and a half-ass story that implements character development whenever possible in between the miniature cracks of when action sequences aren't present. Transformers 2 isn't a good film because it reuses footage from the first film, has too many robots that it forgets that some are in another battle scene while fighting in two and doesn't make sense when instead of adding a fight scene more could have been explained to extend the plot. TF2 isn't as bad as Wolverine or Terminator Salvation, but its a disappointing film that continues to show me Michael Bay is only good at blowing shit up.

[Abbie Normal]

To say people are producing unintended hatred towards this film is an overstatement. The reason people didn't like the film is because they've come to expect more from a blockbuster film. Bay uses the ploy of massive explosions and a half-ass story that implements character development whenever possible in between the miniature cracks of when action sequences aren't present. Transformers 2 isn't a good film because it reuses footage from the first film, has too many robots that it forgets that some are in another battle scene while fighting in two and doesn't make sense when instead of adding a fight scene more could have been explained to extend the plot. TF2 isn't as bad as Wolverine or Terminator Salvation, but its a disappointing film that continues to show me Michael Bay is only good at blowing shit up.

What is your point? It is not like we did not know it was a Bay film going in. We all knew before one scene was shot what we were going to get. TF2 is not a good film. TF2 is an entertaining action film. How many blockbusters in the last few years actually gave us more than we expected?

I count Iron Man, The Dark Knight, Transformers, some might count the 3rd Bourne (not me), Casino Royale. I count 4 in 3.5 years.

[APzombie]

What is your point? It is not like we did not know it was a Bay film going in. We all knew before one scene was shot what we were going to get. TF2 is not a good film. TF2 is an entertaining action film. How many blockbusters in the last few years actually gave us more than we expected?

I count Iron Man, The Dark Knight, Transformers, some might count the 3rd Bourne (not me), Casino Royale. I count 4 in 3.5 years.

to me, entertaining action film and good film should be synonymous when it is a successful action movie. Creating various levels of success based on genre is giving the filmmakers an excuse to create mediocrity if in the end it still delivers explosions and attractive girls. We shouldn't put them in the same category as, say, porn. All cinema should strive to be good cinema, thats why i think Bay failed with TF2.

[fooknasty]

Iron Man, The Dark Knight, Bourne Ultimatium, and Casino Royale (actually I think this was November) are what good 'summer' blockbuster movies should be. Intelligent, well acted, wonderfully directed, etc.

[Abbie Normal]

to me, entertaining action film and good film should be synonymous when it is a successful action movie. Creating various levels of success based on genre is giving the filmmakers an excuse to create mediocrity if in the end it still delivers explosions and attractive girls. We shouldn't put them in the same category as, say, porn. All cinema should strive to be good cinema, thats why i think Bay failed with TF2.

Iron Man, The Dark Knight, Bourne Ultimatium, and Casino Royale (actually I think this was November) are what good 'summer' blockbuster movies should be. Intelligent, well acted, wonderfully directed, etc.


I am sorry you two probably only enjoy a handful of movies every year. I am sorry you can not lower your standards to enjoy a movie. But of course, you are this way with everything in life right? You have the best jobs, live in the best houses, take the best vacations, drive the best cars, date the best women, graduated from the best colleges, eat the best food and so on. Since you live these best lives, I am silly to believe that you don't watch and enjoy anything, but the best movies.

[ilovemovies]

Both. Movies slightly less so.

He-Man, She-Ra, Chip 'N Dales Rescue Rangers, Ghostbusters, Duck Tales, Tale Spin, Thundercats, Transformers, G.I. Joe

All reasons and more why 80's cartoon tv shows ROCK!

Land Before Time, All Dogs Go to Heaven, The Great Mouse Detective, The Little Mermaid. So movie cartoons were pretty good too actually in the 80's.

80's cartoon > 00's cartoon That's for sure!

[Abbie Normal]

He-Man, She-Ra, Chip 'N Dales Rescue Rangers, Ghostbusters, Duck Tales, Tale Spin, Thundercats, Transformers, G.I. Joe

All reasons and more why 80's cartoon tv shows ROCK!

He Man and Thundercats rule! I love the Smurfs too!

[APzombie]

I am sorry you two probably only enjoy a handful of movies every year. I am sorry you can not lower your standards to enjoy a movie. But of course, you are this way with everything in life right? You have the best jobs, live in the best houses, take the best vacations, drive the best cars, date the best women, graduated from the best colleges, eat the best food and so on. Since you live these best lives, I am silly to believe that you don't watch and enjoy anything, but the best movies.

the difference is a ticket for a great film and a terrible film are the same price.

[Abbie Normal]

the difference is a ticket for a great film and a terrible film are the same price.

That is exactly why movies are great bargains.

[Mr.HyDe807]

Are we really back towards this assumption of "high horse" attitude that people have in order to enjoy this fucking movie? The first one was a fun popcorn movie, nothing that really blew my mind, but it was enjoyable enough. Unfortunately, the things that worked in the first one were very hit and miss in this one. It has nothing to do with feeling that were above this movie, just the fact that it sucked for us.

[RustyRazor]

You will be back.

Don't hold your breath, A.N.:p

[Servo]

For those of you who found Transformers 2 as disappointing as Jenna Busch did, have no fear my friends, apparently this new Harry Potter film is the second coming (a 9/10!!!). REJOICE!

[Abbie Normal]

For those of you who found Transformers 2 as disappointing as Jenna Busch did, have no fear my friends, apparently this new Harry Potter film is the second coming (a 9/10!!!). REJOICE!

That is good news. I hated part 5.

[zombievictim]

Yes, let's mock Jenna because she hated Transformers but liked Harry Potter. Oh the humanity!

[Abbie Normal]

Yes, let's mock Jenna because she hated Transformers but liked Harry Potter. Oh the humanity!

I don't feel he mocked her. I don't know why he even mentioned her and not Arrow as well, but I don't think he mocked her.


This might come off bad, but Jenna Busch with the c in Busch is a sexy name. Like porn star sexy.

[Jig Saw 123]

What is your point? It is not like we did not know it was a Bay film going in. We all knew before one scene was shot what we were going to get. TF2 is not a good film. TF2 is an entertaining action film. How many blockbusters in the last few years actually gave us more than we expected?

I count Iron Man, The Dark Knight, Transformers, some might count the 3rd Bourne (not me), Casino Royale. I count 4 in 3.5 years.

So your saying I have to put on my dummy helmet before walking into a Bay film? I'm saying overall Bay's films have dwindled in story and focused more on action. Bad Boys and Bad Boys II offered action and a story that was bland, but still furthered the plot and gave a reasoning for all the mayhem. The Rock is another example of action done right with a storyline to back it up, but with The Island and Transformers 2 he doesn't deliver. Transformers worked because it provided a responsible amount of humor and the action wasn't thrown in your face just to say look what I can do with a big budget.

And sorry that some of you can't stand the fact that a Harry Potter film can actually be good when all of them have been better than both Transformer films.

[Abbie Normal]

So your saying I have to put on my dummy helmet before walking into a Bay film? I'm saying overall Bay's films have dwindled in story and focused more on action. Bad Boys and Bad Boys II offered action and a story that was bland, but still furthered the plot and gave a reasoning for all the mayhem. The Rock is another example of action done right with a storyline to back it up, but with The Island and Transformers 2 he doesn't deliver. Transformers worked because it provided a responsible amount of humor and the action wasn't thrown in your face just to say look what I can do with a big budget.

And sorry that some of you can't stand the fact that a Harry Potter film can actually be good when all of them have been better than both Transformer films.

The Island was a great movie. Harry Potter 5 was not as good as TF1. I did not care for HP5 at all. Very little like the book.

[Jig Saw 123]

The Island was a great movie. Harry Potter 5 was not as good as TF1. I did not care for HP5 at all. Very little like the book.

The Island was bad and I don't expect to change your opinion about Harry Potter, but imo it was the best the series had to offer thus far.

[Abbie Normal]

The Island was bad and I don't expect to change your opinion about Harry Potter, but imo it was the best the series had to offer thus far.

Did you read the HP books? I am not going to get into the comparison, but that was my favorite HP book and I thought the movie sucked. If you liked it, I am happy for you. I would rather have loved it than how I feel now. I am quite hopeful with the 6th.

The Island was a great movie and I watch it every now and then. I only wish Bay would have let the twins loose during the love scene. I can picture this movie being more like the future than most others. I bet there is a team of people right now trying to clone people for the same purpose as in the movie. If I were rich and clones were an option, I would do it too!

[Jig Saw 123]

Did you read the HP books? I am not going to get into the comparison, but that was my favorite HP book and I thought the movie sucked. If you liked it, I am happy for you. I would rather have loved it than how I feel now. I am quite hopeful with the 6th.

The Island was a great movie and I watch it every now and then. I only wish Bay would have let the twins loose during the love scene. I can picture this movie being more like the future than most others. I bet there is a team of people right now trying to clone people for the same purpose as in the movie. If I were rich and clones were an option, I would do it too!

Yes I did read all seven books and coming from someone who enjoyed TF2 you should know films won't always transition completely from pages to screen.

The Island is just as close to happening in the future as Blade Runner and Minority Report.

[Abbie Normal]

Yes I did read all seven books and coming from someone who enjoyed TF2 you should know films won't always transition completely from pages to screen.

The Island is just as close to happening in the future as Blade Runner and Minority Report.

HP to me, are very easy books to transition from pages to screen. The hardest part is condensing it. They should have made 5 into two parts. I am a bit surprised you loved 5 as much as you did after learning you read the books.

Minority Report is not too far fetched. I could easily see a bunch of the future stuff from that movie being real in 20 years.

[Jig Saw 123]

HP to me, are very easy books to transition from pages to screen. The hardest part is condensing it. They should have made 5 into two parts. I am a bit surprised you loved 5 as much as you did after learning you read the books.

Minority Report is not too far fetched. I could easily see a bunch of the future stuff from that movie being real in 20 years.

Its because I respect a filmmakers decision to condense the large book into one film as long as he touches upon the key elements which made me love the book and doesn't completely abandon the story and characters that make it so great. That's why I think TF2 isn't that good because with the characters from the previous film being introduced it doesn't seem like they have a real role in promoting the story instead they're just dropped out to add additional humor that's not needed.

Minority Report only has a few things that are far fetched and that's using a group of triplets to read the future before it occurs and having a decade of no homicides. Otherwise its in the realm of possibilities. :p

[Abbie Normal]

Its because I respect a filmmakers decision to condense the large book into one film as long as he touches upon the key elements which made me love the book and doesn't completely abandon the story and characters that make it so great. That's why I think TF2 isn't that good because with the characters from the previous film being introduced it doesn't seem like they have a real role in promoting the story instead they're just dropped out to add additional humor that's not needed.

Minority Report only has a few things that are far fetched and that's using a group of triplets to read the future before it occurs and having a decade of no homicides. Otherwise its in the realm of possibilities. :p

To me, the only real characters in TF are Sam, Mikaela, Agent Simmons, Megatron, Prime and Bumblebee. Bee should have had more screen time. The rest of the transformers do not mean enough to me to warrant being developed at all or there to promote the story. Most of them are just named soldiers fighting a war.

I can totally see the police using people with the gifts of the triplets (two male twins and the girl who is not related) to head off crimes.

[Jig Saw 123]

To me, the only real characters in TF are Sam, Mikaela, Agent Simmons, Megatron, Prime and Bumblebee. Bee should have had more screen time. The rest of the transformers do not mean enough to me to warrant being developed at all or there to promote the story. Most of them are just named soldiers fighting a war.

I can totally see the police using people with the gifts of the triplets (two male twins and the girl who is not related) to head off crimes.

I was referring to the humans.

I hope the triplets would wear cool costumes.

[Abbie Normal]

I was referring to the humans.

I hope the triplets would wear cool costumes.

Humans? The mom and dad are not major characters. The couple Air Force Commando guys, to me are not major either. The government guys changed. The computer experts were not needed here. Are you speaking of someone else?

[Jig Saw 123]

Humans? The mom and dad are not major characters. The couple Air Force Commando guys, to me are not major either. The government guys changed. The computer experts were not needed here. Are you speaking of someone else?

Agent Simmons was pointles and Leo Spitz was just there to add additional humor.

[Abbie Normal]

Agent Simmons was pointles and Leo Spitz was just there to add additional humor.

I did not like Leo, but he had a use at least. Simmons rules! Anytime you have John Turturro in a movie, it is worth watching.

[Jon Lyrik]

He-Man, She-Ra, Chip 'N Dales Rescue Rangers, Ghostbusters, Duck Tales, Tale Spin, Thundercats, Transformers, G.I. Joe

All reasons and more why 80's cartoon tv shows ROCK!

Land Before Time, All Dogs Go to Heaven, The Great Mouse Detective, The Little Mermaid. So movie cartoons were pretty good too actually in the 80's.

80's cartoon > 00's cartoon That's for sure!

All of those shows are goddamn terrible. Little Mermaid barely counts as 80s.

I mean, Miyazaki, Pixar and the French are churning out some of their finest work this decade, the internet's helped liberate animation, Adult Swim has plenty of avant-garde stuff, Spongebob had a great run for a while. Of course there's shit, and Disney struck a massive blow by stalling 2D production, but there hasn't been a better time for animation since the 1988-1993 period. But no, all that's inferior to fucking toy commercials like He-Man, drawn by poor Koreans chained to an animation mill.

[ilovemovies]

Well I can't stand anime.

And most kids shows today suck IMO!

Spongebob is a complete joke. Don't get the appeal to that at all for anyone above the age 6.

IMO, the only good animated movies that have come out lately have been from pixar although I haven't seen Persepolis or Walt with Bashir and they looked kind of interesting. And even pixar are sometimes overpraised though I did LOVE Up.

[poopontheshoes7]

Spongebob is a complete joke. Don't get the appeal to that at all for anyone above the age 6.



Spongebob is amazing. Well, at least the first three or four seasons. The past few seasons suck ass and really went downhill, but the older stuff is pure gold. The comedy is clever and off the wall and like many older cartoons, probably goes above some kids heads.

[g1ng3rsnap9ed]

Spongebob Squarepants is the single greatest kids cartoon ever. I laugh uncontrollably every time I watch it.

[CreeperBEATNGU]

I think these are terrible to put it nicely action movies and even worse comedies. The CGI is really good, but Bay seems to have no clue how to use it, it's just a bunch of characters that all look almost the same flying past the screen at 100 mph knocking each other around in one generic, interchangeable fight scene after another. I didn't even know what happened to the fallen in the fight with Optimus (which lasts all of ten seconds, when it should've been an epic climactic showdown), and I still don't know how Bumblebee killed that robot he was fighting at the end. I saw a review that summed up precisely how I felt, "there are supposed to be over fourty new Transformers in this movie, is that true?...Hell, I don't know, it may be or may be 12, I can barely tell. There's one yellow one in there I could've sworn were Bumblebee..."

The obscenely, sickeningly bad attempts at comedy take up more screen time than the incompetently edited and shot action sequences, cutting away randomly to shots of dogs humping or repeatedly interrupting the story for shots of women staggering around college campuses tackling volley ball players while on drug highs or dopey latino guys tripping over their trouses and falling onto tazers not only isn't the least bit character driven, but it's not even remotely funny.
I don't agree at all that only Optimus and Bumblebee should've had personalities and the rest should act like idiotic stereotypical hood black guys, more ridiculous and unnecessary idiocy that the films are flooded with.

I think these are "fun popcorn flicks" at their absolute lowest point.

P.S. I also really like Spongebob.

[Jon Lyrik]

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - 19%, 3.9/10 (COTC 18%, 4/10)
Transformers - 57%, 5.8/10 (COTC 68%, 6.1/10)

Off of RT. Transformers 1 really didn't have bad reviews, so there must be a reason this was so hated.

[razgriz21]

The critics are jealous of Michael Bay because he can put on a damn entertaining show.

Yes, the Twins sucked mainly when they spoke and when I saw there faces, but they did not scar me for life like some other people.

[Jon Lyrik]

Oh yeah, that's it. :rolleyes:

[SAI]

The critics are jealous of Michael Bay because he can put on a damn entertaining show.
I can't speak for anyone else (and maybe I shouldn't think of myself as a critic, but hell 10 years of writing reviews for something in the order of 1000 films ought to count for something), but this is the EXACT opposite of the reason I hated TF2. It's a giant piece of shit because, on top of all the myriad other things wrong with it, it was utterly boring. I wasn't entertained by a single fucking frame of this movie. I'll give Bay credit when does entertain me (Bad Boys, The Rock, some of Transformers 1) but there's so much so completely wrong with this film.

Saying something like 'critics are jealous' overlooks the hundreds of perfectly reasonable, and thoroughly explained reasons that I and many, many other people who have reviewed this movie have given for not liking it.

You were entertained, great, but don't try and cheapen what are generally well made points from the other side of this debate with some tossed off line.

[Mr.HyDe807]

Hell, most of these critics enjoyed the first one, it's not like they went into this movie thinking that this was definitely going to be just garbage.

[Abbie Normal]

Hell, most of these critics enjoyed the first one, it's not like they went into this movie thinking that this was definitely going to be just garbage.

I think they enjoyed the first one, because they did not expect much at all and were surprised. Below are a bunch of short, one line reviews. They rip the second movie for the same reasons they loved the first one. No one seemed to mind the lack of a decent story in the first one. All of a sudden they are expecting a better story. Critics should be consistent.

I think many people on this site are more jealous of MB than the critics. I think critics love MB, so they have someone to whip up on. Just like we love to whip up on Uwe Boll (but he deserves it)


90
Variety Jay Weissberg
Big, loud and full of testosterone-fueled car fantasies, Michael Bay's actioner hits a new peak for CGI work, showcasing spectacular chases and animated transformation sequences seamlessly blended into live-action surroundings.
Read Full Review
90
The Hollywood Reporter Kirk Honeycutt
Transformers is a wet dream for fanboys, with vehicles that whiz and whir into alien robots, spectacular sci-fi stunt chases, glistening military hardware, overheated computer software and brainy, hot girls who love Popular Mechanics.
Read Full Review
83
Seattle Post-Intelligencer Sean Axmaker
It's all about the sheer visceral rush of mega action.
Read Full Review
80
LA Weekly Luke Y. Thompson
The movie's biggest misstep is a complete lack of the classic Transformers theme song. How do you not use the coolest ’80s toyline-turned-cartoon music ever?
Read Full Review
80
Empire Ian Nathan
The script may have rubbery legs, but the action is rock-hard. The surprise is the lightness of touch: treat as a comedy for best results.
Read Full Review
75
San Francisco Chronicle Peter Hartlaub
Even more ridiculous than it sounds.
Read Full Review
75
Portland Oregonian Marc Mohan
LaBeouf is likable and grounded, two things you need from the lead in a film like this, although his female co-stars seem to have been cast based on how well their Maxim covers would sell.
Read Full Review
75
Christian Science Monitor Peter Rainer
Just about everything connected to this movie is a tie-in, except for the popcorn. And even then I'm not too sure.
Read Full Review
75
USA Today Claudia Puig
Yes, it's loud, explosive and silly, but it also perfectly embodies the concept of a summer blockbuster with its simple good-guys-vs.-bad-guys plot, cheeky humor and flawless special effects.
Read Full Review
75
New York Daily News Elizabeth Weitzman
A classic Michael Bay mega-movie. Interested in plot and character development? Move along. You're blocking the view.
Read Full Review
75
Miami Herald Rene Rodriguez
The most surprising thing about Michael Bay's much-anticipated, blockbuster-bound Transformers is how funny the movie is.
Read Full Review
75
Philadelphia Inquirer Carrie Rickey
It's a heavy-metal opera with humor.
Read Full Review
75
Premiere Eric Alt
Grab some popcorn and make a pit stop, then sit back and enjoy it. You signed up for a movie about giant robots.
Read Full Review
75
Baltimore Sun Chris Kaltenbach
The whole thing is too giddy to be taken seriously and too much of a confection to leave much of a lasting impression. But for 140 minutes, at least, it should give non-fanboys at least an idea of what all the fuss is about.
Read Full Review
75
Charlotte Observer Lawrence Toppman
The energy never lets up, and two committed, unfussy leading actors are an improvement over other summer flicks.
Read Full Review
75
Chicago Sun-Times Roger Ebert
Everything comes down to an epic battle between the Transformers and the Decepticons, and that's when my attention began to wander, and the movie lost a potential fourth star.
Read Full Review
70
The New Yorker Anthony Lane
In previous movies, Michael Bay dabbled wearily in Homo sapiens. At last he has summoned the courage to admit that he has an exclusive crush on machines, and I congratulate him on creating, in Transformers, his first truly honest work of art.
Read Full Review

[Mr.HyDe807]

Well, they probably felt that the story wasn't as good as the previous one. The first one had a good balance of human interaction and transformers, though some people thought the action scenes weren't all that great. They probably thought this story felt too overblown for its own good, and the film suffered for it. The same can be said for the comedic elements and such.

Just because it follows the same idea as the previous one, it doesn't mean that the story will automatically be up to snuff. It's an overblown popcorn movie, but this one seem to go over the line (and not in a good way) in certain aspects of the previous one.

[Abbie Normal]

Well, they probably felt that the story wasn't as good as the previous one. The first one had a good balance of human interaction and transformers, though some people thought the action scenes weren't all that great. They probably thought this story felt too overblown for its own good, and the film suffered for it. The same can be said for the comedic elements and such.

Just because it follows the same idea as the previous one, it doesn't mean that the story will automatically be up to snuff. It's an overblown popcorn movie, but this one seem to go over the line (and not in a good way) in certain aspects of the previous one.

So basically, you can't concede one thing. You can't admit that at least one of the reviewers might a double talking reviewer. It would be impossible for one reviewer to like the first TF for some reasons and then hate TF2 for the exact same reasons?

[Mr.HyDe807]

So basically, you can't concede one thing. You can't admit that at least one of the reviewers might a double talking reviewer. It would be impossible for one reviewer to like the first TF for some reasons and then hate TF2 for the exact same reasons?

Oh boy.....

Where in my previous post said that all the reviewers are not be double talkers? I'm simply making the idea towards why certain aspects that were in the first transformers weren't as good as the sequel, and how that could tie to the fact why some of the reviewers thought the movie was bad. I'm making an assumption, not a "know it all" fact that all reviewers don't contradict themselves.

You ask me why certain reviewers hate the things that they enjoyed in the first one, I simply say that maybe the stuff in the sequel wasn't as good as the first! Did they enjoy robots fighting? Yeah, they did, and that was in this as well. Yet, there could have been the hit/miss comedy bits, the stupid gangsta robots that took some of the screen time, or the boring middle half? That was in a lot of the movie, and one of the reasons I didn't like it.

I don't know if any of these reviewers could be double talking, I'm simply just giving my idea towards why they don't like this movie as much as the first one.

I keep giving my side on why people don't like this movie, and you just change it around to something that wasn't even part of my discussion, or just ignore what I said.

[SAI]

I think they enjoyed the first one, because they did not expect much at all and were surprised. Below are a bunch of short, one line reviews. They rip the second movie for the same reasons they loved the first one. No one seemed to mind the lack of a decent story in the first one. All of a sudden they are expecting a better story. Critics should be consistent.

I think many people on this site are more jealous of MB than the critics. I think critics love MB, so they have someone to whip up on. Just like we love to whip up on Uwe Boll (but he deserves it)

Those quotes make your point very poorly. Most of them read like positive notices, and if you're trying to prove that critics went into this movie wanting to knock it just because then you're going about it completely the wrong way.

As for your point about expectations, I can only speak for myself with any degree of certainty, but I'd like to think I speak for at least the bulk of critics as well. I didn't go in to TF2 expecting anything more than an entertaining action film. The reason I gave it a bad review IS NOT because it's not some Oscar bait drama with intense, dramatic, character interaction. It's because it's NOT an entertaining action movie. It is failing to do what it says on the tin. Around that are its myriad other failings - script, character, comedy, etc etc all of which contributed to my (and other) bad reviews.

It's not like people haven't said this. They've made it clear in their reviews, they've made it clear in this thread and yet you're still not hearing it, people aren't bashing some imagined film they thought they saw when they are bashing TF2, they aren't bashing it for not being the film they wish they saw, they are bashing it for being the film it IS.

[Abbie Normal]

Those quotes make your point very poorly. Most of them read like positive notices, and if you're trying to prove that critics went into this movie wanting to knock it just because then you're going about it completely the wrong way.


It's not like people haven't said this. They've made it clear in their reviews, they've made it clear in this thread and yet you're still not hearing it, people aren't bashing some imagined film they thought they saw when they are bashing TF2, they aren't bashing it for not being the film they wish they saw, they are bashing it for being the film it IS.

The quote were about the first movie. My point was that not that critics went in negative. My point was that critics bashed part 2 for the exact same reasons they loved part 1.

It is note worthy that many of the same people who wrote bad reviews also ripped Bay on several occasions before TF2 came out. Still others were extremely negative before the movie even came out, so for those people your point does not stand up.

[Abbie Normal]

I don't know if any of these reviewers could be double talking, I'm simply just giving my idea towards why they don't like this movie as much as the first one.

I keep giving my side on why people don't like this movie, and you just change it around to something that wasn't even part of my discussion, or just ignore what I said.


Yes, many reviewers are double talking.

Ditto.

[Mr.HyDe807]

Yes, many reviewers are double talking.

Ditto.

Well, can you give us evidence towards this double talking? All i see is reviewers saying how much they like the 1st one, and not of their reviews of the 2nd one. That way I could see this "double talking" that you think I'm not admitting to, despite the fact that I don't see anything that shows evidence towards it, just reviews on how they enjoyed the first one.

Right, I'm ignoring what your saying, and also changing around your words. You got me. I haven't looked at your points and simply gave my difference of opinion towards why other people don't enjoy this movie as much as you do. :rolleyes:

[Abbie Normal]

Well, can you give us evidence towards this double talking? All i see is reviewers saying how much they like the 1st one, and not of their reviews of the 2nd one. That way I could see this "double talking" that you think I'm not admitting to, despite the fact that I don't see anything that shows evidence towards it, just reviews on how they enjoyed the first one.

Right, I'm ignoring what your saying, and also changing around your words. You got me. I haven't looked at your points and simply gave my difference of opinion towards why other people don't enjoy this movie as much as you do. :rolleyes:


Well, at least you can admit what you said in the second part.



50
The Hollywood Reporter Ray Bennett
With its intelligence at the level of the simple-minded, however, the film is not likely to attract moviegoers who seek something more than a screen filled with kaleidoscopes of colored metal. Fan boys will no doubt love it, but for the uninitiated it's loud, tedious and, at 147 minutes, way too long.

50
Los Angeles Times Betsy Sharkey
Exhilarating or excruciating, depending on your point of view.

50
The Globe and Mail (Toronto) Liam Lacey
Taken on its own, this is a masterful little slice of computer-generated animation, but it gets lost here in the visual racket.

50
The New York Times Manohla Dargis
The man (Bay) just wears you out and wears you down, so much so that it’s easy to pretend that you’re not ingesting 2 hours and 30 minutes of warmongering along with all that dumb fun.

50
Philadelphia Inquirer Carrie Rickey
Roughly an hour in, Transformers 2 morphs from teen adventure into lumbering war movie. Bay and his screenwriters squander their human capital in order to show us scenes of 20-ton toys crushing 10-ton toys.

42
The Onion (A.V. Club) Tasha Robinson
At least in the last half-hour, Bay's incredibly sloppy continuity and overeager rush to action pays off.

40
Village Voice Robert Wilonsky
This is blockbuster porn absent even the suggestion of care or concern for anything that might resemble "a point," save the obvious one to move more Hasbro action figures and animated-series DVD boxed sets. In a word: distasteful.

40
Salon.com Stephanie Zacharek
Revenge of the Fallen just comes off as a bratty kid showing how many swear words he knows.

38
Boston Globe Ty Burr
2 1/2 hours of tumescence disguised as a motion picture.

38
USA Today Claudia Puig
This sequel to the clever and funny first "Transformers" not only is disappointing, it will give most people a throbbing case of metal overload.

38
ReelViews James Berardinelli
The storyline is so infantile that it will appeal to young kids.

38
Chicago Tribune Michael Phillips
Fox's cleavage is the only camera object that catches Bay's attention for more than a millisecond.

38
New York Post Lou Lumenick
Dazzles the eye, numbs the mind and may cause deafness in some cases. Did I mention to bring along some Excedrin?

33
Portland Oregonian M. E. Russell
Revenge of the Fallen almost feels like it's signaling an end-game for blockbuster movies: all sensation, no content, catastrophic expense.

30
Slate Dana Stevens
The reductio ad absurdum of a summer blockbuster. It is loud (boom!), long (two and a half hours!), incoherent (poorly explained intergalactic warfare!), leering (Megan Fox in short shorts!), racist (jive-talkin' robot twins!), and rife with product tie-ins (Chevy! Hasbro!).

30
Washington Post John Anderson
Much of Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen is simply despicable.

30
The New Yorker David Denby
The movie rages on for a hundred and fifty minutes and then just stops, pausing for the next sequel.

30
Chicago Reader Andrea Gronvall
The special effects are better and the dialogue slightly more humorous than in the first movie, but the anti-Arab subtext is repugnant.

30
Wall Street Journal Joe Morgenstern
This Transformers is a pile of glittering junk.

25
Chicago Sun-Times Roger Ebert
A horrible experience of unbearable length, briefly punctuated by three or four amusing moments.

25
Baltimore Sun Michael Sragow
The whirl, bang and general bother of crashing gears and gnashing metal ends up suffocating the senses.

20
Austin Chronicle Marjorie Baumgarten
Overstays its welcome by at least a half hour. But, assuming that cute Camaro stays in the picture, I expect we’ll all be back for the planned round three.

16
Christian Science Monitor Peter Rainer
An impossibly, incomprehensibly overlong and cacophonous bore.

0
Rolling Stone Peter Travers
Transformers 2 has a shot at the title Worst Movie of the Decade.

[someguy]

Seriously Abbie, are you just basing all this on the Metacritic/RT excerpts? Nothing in that posts supports what you've said about critics double talking. From what I see it only supports what SAI has been telling you. Can you actually, like, point out specific examples here instead of quoting Metacritic or RT excerpt quotes. And don't just quote the things either, point out what parts of their reviews have double talking. Back it up, don't just throw it up and then let us assume our own conclusions.

[Mr.HyDe807]

Well, at least you can admit what you said in the second part.

Note the rolly eyes Abbie, I'm being sarcastic. Nice try though.

Yeah, there is double talking from most these reviewers, considering that there are different reviewers who saw the sequel. Maybe they didn't like the first one to begin with? The only review I can see that has the same reviewer is Roger Ebert, so when I read the full review (as opposed at looking at little excerpts) there is some points where he is double talking (praising the robots look in the first one, then hating it in this one),as well as questioning how Sam's parents got to the desert (it was shown in a scene in Paris). Still, he does mention that it is bloated and how there are small things that work at some points, which is what people have been saying the main problem of the movie is.

Congratulations Abbie, you got yourself a winner, I even helped you at as well. It still doesn't change the fact that the movie was still bad to other reviewers.

[Abbie Normal]

Seriously Abbie, are you just basing all this on the Metacritic/RT excerpts? Nothing in that posts supports what you've said about critics double talking. From what I see it only supports what SAI has been telling you. Can you actually, like, point out specific examples here instead of quoting Metacritic or RT excerpt quotes. And don't just quote the things either, point out what parts of their reviews have double talking. Back it up, don't just throw it up and then let us assume our own conclusions.

Seriously Someguy, stop reading and commenting on this thread. This thread has been done to death and is over, but some people like to continue to say the exact same thing over and over and over and now I feel like messing with that person. The funniest part is I have not made much sense in this thread for some time and he keeps fighting away. I do not need people like you to pointjing out how stupid this thread has become. I wish the mods would close the thread. We all feel as we do and nothing will change our minds.

TF2 is the greatest movie that came out June 24, 2009.

[Abbie Normal]

Congratulations Abbie, you got yourself a winner, I even helped you at as well. It still doesn't change the fact that the movie was still bad to other reviewers.

Dude, you are funny. I am going to call you the Energizer Poster. You just keep going and going and going.

[Mr.HyDe807]

Dude, you are funny. I am going to call you the Energizer Poster. You just keep going and going and going.

Ahhh well, someone has to finally get you to realize that people don't like this movie over blind hatred, or jealousy over Michael Bay. Whatever though, just keep ignoring the rest of my posts, and go back to the "We get it, you hate the movie" stance of your arguments towards me. :D

[someguy]

Seriously Someguy, stop reading and commenting on this thread. This thread has been done to death and is over, but some people like to continue to say the exact same thing over and over and over and now I feel like messing with that person. The funniest part is I have not made much sense in this thread for some time and he keeps fighting away. I do not need people like you to pointjing out how stupid this thread has become. I wish the mods would close the thread. We all feel as we do and nothing will change our minds.

TF2 is the greatest movie that came out June 24, 2009.

If this is just you trolling then you are the worst troll I have ever seen.

[Abbie Normal]

Ahhh well, someone has to finally get you to realize that people don't like this movie over blind hatred, or jealousy over Michael Bay. Whatever though, just keep ignoring the rest of my posts, and go back to the "We get it, you hate the movie" stance of your arguments towards me. :D

I did not say that. Have fun.

[Abbie Normal]

If this is just you trolling then you are the worst troll I have ever seen.

Exaggerate much? Mind your business this was between a and b, so c your way of it, Mr always innocent.

[Mr.HyDe807]

I did not say that. Have fun.

am making this separate thread, because I am outraged of the blind hatred this movie is getting. I can't believe my eyes of what I have been reading.

I think many people on this site are more jealous of MB than the critics

Oh, I'm having a ball.:)

[Abbie Normal]

Oh, I'm having a ball.:)

Not a ball, a hard on.

[Mr.HyDe807]

Not a ball, a hard on.

Oh, a joke about me being turned on by this discussion, and ignoring the fact that you did say those things.

Thank you for proving my point.

[Abbie Normal]

Oh, a joke about me being turned on by this discussion, and ignoring the fact that you did say those things.

Thank you for proving my point.

You are from NY and you don't know the term "having a hard on for someone"? It has nothing to do with sex.

I have refused to debate you in a serious manner for some time now and you have won nothing. You are simply beating a dead horse by saying the same exact thing for the 24th time. I find it hilarious that you have no sense of humor and keep trying to fight with me. I keep trying to end it, but you are Mr Energizer Poster.

http://archive.perfectduluthday.com/beating-a-dead-horse.gif


I said, "Good day."

[Mr.HyDe807]

You are from NY and you don't know the term "having a hard on for someone"? It has nothing to do with sex.

I have refused to debate you in a serious manner for some time now and you have won nothing. You are simply beating a dead horse by saying the same exact thing for the 24th time. I find it hilarious that you have no sense of humor and keep trying to fight with me. I keep trying to end it, but you are Mr Energizer Poster.

http://archive.perfectduluthday.com/beating-a-dead-horse.gif


I said, "Good day."

It didn't seem to imply to that saying, that's why I reacted to it that way. I never said I won anything, I'm just trying to let you understand why people don't like Transformers. You made the rant, your the one who was upset over people hating the movie, believing it was blind hatred or just not liking and/or being jealous of Michael Bay in general, so I simply am giving you my two cents on why people don't like the movie. Yet, you continue these arguments with other people, and when I throw my two cents in these different reasons towards why you think people don't liek this movie, you just call me out for repeating the same thing over and over again, or being this outrage antagonist to all that is Transformers, when it just feels like your ignoring my and other people's plausible reasons on why this movie wasn't good.

Whatever though, I'm not trying to be this annoyance to you man, I'm just giving my two cents towards the different ideas of why Transformers wasn't good. Your done, I'm done, lets just high five each other and enjoy the rest of the summer movies.:D

[Abbie Normal]

Your done, I'm done, lets just high five each other and enjoy the rest of the summer movies.:D

http://img.timeinc.net/people/i/2006/startracks/061127/borat.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_13cLvSGWGh4/SegF-iQidaI/AAAAAAAACh4/FDq4_hcojiU/s320/highfive_Borat.gif

[Darin]

GREAT ACTION. TERRIBLE DIALOGUE.

[SAI]

GREAT ACTION. TERRIBLE DIALOGUE.
Half right

[bfox1220]

I went with 2 friends to see this after burning a few dutches and this movie almost put me to sleep. Even when your high their is just so much robots fighting each other that one person can watch. There was no depth to this at all. I felt like they were in the dessert for about 2 hours and I was waiting for it to end. I didnt go into this movie expecting anything more then a badass fast paced action movie but it did not deliver. Seriously dude I am very easily entertained when im booted...I sat through the movie Supercross one time and thought it was incredible...but this movie just wasnt all that entertaining. I would go as far to say that The Proposal offers more entertainment value then this shit. As for the general public...I went with 2 girls who both were nodding off during it and they arent schmoes whatsoever so that logic is done.