A New "Worst Ever"

[jackson13]

I know the other thread got shut down, but this story just bears sharing, and has definitely taken over as seriously the worst thing I have ever heard in my life.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090727/ap_on_re_us/us_baby_decapitated

"SAN ANTONIO – A woman charged with murdering her 3 1/2-week-old son used a knife and two swords to dismember the child and ate parts of his body, including his brain, before stabbing herself in the torso and slicing her own throat, police said Monday."


Click the link to read more, because I do not want to post anymore.



I am completely at a loss of words here. And what really pisses me off is the fact that the woman will claim insanity and end up getting off the hook for it. I honestly cannot believe the types of people there are out there in this world. This woman needs to be hung in public for what she has done. Tie her up and let everyone publicly see what a monster she is.

[Tweek]

That's awful.

Yep, she'll probably plead insanity. I hope they get a very good prosecutor.

[Abbie Normal]

What the heck is wrong with people?

[someguy]

i didn't know the 'everything's bigger in texas' saying applied to their insane people too

[Reigh Kaufman]

What the heck is wrong with people?

Mental illness - which, unless you are a Scientologist, is very real. Sorry jackson13, ol' buddy, but if the woman is mentally disturbed then I hardly think a public hanging is reasonable in a civilised society.

I won't get involved in this thread, but people need to unnderstand that mental illness - especially profound mental illness - is not something that people can solve simply by "pulling themselves together".

I've seen it. It's not their fault. And probably we'll find this tragedy is the result of multiple failings on the part of the mental health services in her area.

My sympathies to the family.

[Abbie Normal]

Mental illness - which, unless you are a Scientologist, is very real. Sorry jackson13, ol' buddy, but if the woman is mentally disturbed then I hardly think a public hanging is reasonable in acivilised society.

I won't get involved in this thread, but people need to unnderstand that mental illness - especially profound mental illness - is not something that people can solve simply by "pulling themselves together".

I've seen it. It's not their fault. And probably we'll find this tragedy is the result of multiple failings on the part of the mental health services in her area.

My sympathies to the family.

I do not want to debate you on this. I just want to ask one question.

Should measures be done when someone has been declared to have mental illness? I don't want to debate who would declare it.

[someguy]

Don't enact the death penalty ever? We went over this already though. If she's mentally ill though (which appears to be the case) then no she doesn't need to be publicly hanged or executed or whatever. Agreeing with Reigh on this.

[Reigh Kaufman]

I do not want to debate you on this. I just want to ask one question.

Should measures be done when someone has been declared to have mental illness? I don't want to debate who would declare it.

They are where I live. We have health visitors and sheltered housing for people with debilitating mental health issues. For more profound issues we have the Mental Health Act which means you can be sectioned and sent to facilities designed to deal with the issue.

Family and health professionals are usually involved in the act of sectioning.

[Tweek]

Mental illness - which, unless you are a Scientologist, is very real. Sorry jackson13, ol' buddy, but if the woman is mentally disturbed then I hardly think a public hanging is reasonable in a civilised society.

I won't get involved in this thread, but people need to unnderstand that mental illness - especially profound mental illness - is not something that people can solve simply by "pulling themselves together".

I've seen it. It's not their fault. And probably we'll find this tragedy is the result of multiple failings on the part of the mental health services in her area.

My sympathies to the family.
Anti-social Personality Disorder is a recognized mental illness in the DSM-IV and ICD-10. Are you quick to be sympathetic to someone diagnosed with that? (No I'm not trying to 'diagnose' her. I hope my point is clear, though.)

I disagree with a public hanging. "Insane" or not, some punishment should happen. But it's not for me to decide.

[Abbie Normal]

They are where I live. We have health visitors and sheltered housing for people with debilitating mental health issues. For more profound issues we have the Mental Health Act which means you can be sectioned and sent to facilities designed to deal with the issue.

Family and health professionals are usually involved in the act of sectioning.

Can these people have relationships, relations with people, kids? Do they lose civil rights?

[countchocula]

Okay, don't kill her. But don't let her have children. If this woman was that far...out, someone around her should have taken care of her. She should have had her tubes tied long ago. Seriously, you need a permit and/or a license to do just about anything in this country except for bringing a child into the world. That's crazy, crazier than what this chick did to her son.

[starcat]

Yeah, but what if she wasnt mentally ill... what if she was just a real sadistic fuckin bitch!!!

Ill or not, something needs to be done. What if its someone elses kid next time. If I caught her with my 5 year old I would take her sword and go Highlander on her ass!!!

[Reigh Kaufman]

Can these people have relationships, relations with people, kids? Do they lose civil rights?

Depends on the illness.

Most lose their civil rights in the same way that a prisoner does. They are then rehabilitated or remain is stasis while they receive treatment - this can be a life-long process. If they are in a period of lucidity, family are allowed to visit.

Tweek -did you mean to quote me?

It sounds odd. But for the record, I do sympathise with all mental illnesses - including deviant behaviour.

;)

[jackson13]

Okay, don't kill her. But don't let her have children.


Too late for that. Sadly. But not just in the deceased babies case, she has 2 older children. Children that now have to grow up knowing that their little brother was savagely murdered (and partially eaten) by their psychopath of a mother. Minus this sick monster of a woman, I feel incredibly sad for that entire family.

And since it got brought up (death penalty), I think we should use the death penalty in this country and that it should not be banned. I feel it should be revised, in kind of a "tit-for-tat" ruling. This woman chopped her baby to pieces with a knife and a sword. Well guess what, under my tit-for-tat law, she gets the same thing done to her. See how she likes it. I guarantee that after a few tit-for-tat style executions, instead of the lethal injection or electric chair we used to use, criminals everywhere would wake the fuck up and think "jeez, maybe I shouldn't do this because if I get caught its gonna get done to me."

[someguy]

good to know hammurabi13

[The Heart Collector]

You are proudly and openly mentioning the fact that your view of the law is literally a couple of millenia behind the civilized world.

[outsyder]

An eye for an eye is easily the most misunderstood phrase in history.

[Jon Lyrik]

Yeah, but what if she wasnt mentally ill... what if she was just a real sadistic fuckin bitch!!!

Then hopefully, she won't be declared insane.

[jackson13]

You are proudly and openly mentioning the fact that your view of the law is literally a couple of millenia behind the civilized world.

Did I say it was my view of the law? Where did I say that? What I said was I mean I would be ok with it if it happened to her. You know why? Because I would never chop up and eat a fucking baby! This woman, mental or not, does not deserve to live for what she has done. She deserves to be removed from this Earth for the horrific crime she has committed. To me it would just be fitting if she went through what she put that baby through. Thats all. And that it would set a precedent for future crimes, an example of what can happen if you do something absolutely horrendous like this.

[starcat]

I see what your saying Jackson and a big part of me is with you. My only drawbacks are people are so stupid they would do it any way... And I would hate to be found guilty of dismembering somebody if I didnt do it, especially if they were gonna do it back to me!!!

[countchocula]

I don't think crazy people would get the message. That's the thing about being irrational. Killing this woman wouldn't teach anyone anything, and it wouldn't serve any purpose whatsoever. Besides, she'll die on her own at some point.

The "tit-for-tat" ideology is primitive. It wouldn't bother me if this woman was raped and eaten, but it wouldn't change much.

[Darth Kenshin]

Okay, don't kill her. But don't let her have children.

maybe the Eugenicists were on to something...

[Darth Kenshin]

double post

[jackson13]

An update to the story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_baby_decapitated


Key quotes from the story:

Scott W. Buchholz, the infant's father who met Sanchez six years ago while they were studying to be pharmacists assistants, said he isn't buying it. He said although his girlfriend had postpartum depression and told him a week before the killing that she was schizophrenic, she didn't appear unstable.

He wants prosecutors to pursue the death penalty.

"She killed my son. She should burn in hell," Buchholz, 33, told The Associated Press.

and, this is what pisses me off the most because I know it will happen:

"other similar cases — including that of Yates and Dena Schlosser, a Plano woman who said she sliced off her baby's arms because she wanted to give the baby to God — have ended with juries finding the women not guilty by reason of insanity."


This woman will get off and be allowed to keep living and there will be nothing left to it but a poor dead baby.

[Smarmy Douche]

And since it got brought up (death penalty), I think we should use the death penalty in this country and that it should not be banned. I feel it should be revised, in kind of a "tit-for-tat" ruling. This woman chopped her baby to pieces with a knife and a sword. Well guess what, under my tit-for-tat law, she gets the same thing done to her. See how she likes it. I guarantee that after a few tit-for-tat style executions, instead of the lethal injection or electric chair we used to use, criminals everywhere would wake the fuck up and think "jeez, maybe I shouldn't do this because if I get caught its gonna get done to me."

Ok. Quick question: So, in this fantastic world, who is the performer of these punishments, and what happens to them? Or are you really saying that certain people (you) have the right to be the arbiter and executor of penance- ahem- punishments, deathly or otherwise based on their own personal judgment, even in the case of a person with mental illness?

Rorschach's Journal, July 28th, 2009.

Honestly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, schizophrenic, whatever, kill her kill her!!!

I'm not studied in psychology, but attempting to cut one's throat after doing what she did seems like an act of lucid self-punishment to me. Unless you think that she did it to take the edge off the baby.

[Darth Kenshin]

An update to the story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_baby_decapitated


Key quotes from the story:

Scott W. Buchholz, the infant's father who met Sanchez six years ago while they were studying to be pharmacists assistants, said he isn't buying it. He said although his girlfriend had postpartum depression and told him a week before the killing that she was schizophrenic, she didn't appear unstable.

He wants prosecutors to pursue the death penalty.

"She killed my son. She should burn in hell," Buchholz, 33, told The Associated Press.

and, this is what pisses me off the most because I know it will happen:

"other similar cases — including that of Yates and Dena Schlosser, a Plano woman who said she sliced off her baby's arms because she wanted to give the baby to God — have ended with juries finding the women not guilty by reason of insanity."


This woman will get off and be allowed to keep living and there will be nothing left to it but a poor dead baby.

I've had the opportunity to work with special needs students, and I will say it's impossible to fully understand what they go through. I can't honestly wish bad things on people with legitimate mental disorders. I mean, my minimal classroom experience is as an aid in a public school (I'm still in college)... I don't even know what it's like to work in a fully special education environment, where the students have even more severe disorders.

It's pretty heartless to condemn people with severe disabilities or disorders (as opposed to "mild" or "moderate"), regardless of what they do. The issue is, the DSM is basically a "Chinese Restaurant Menu," as my Educational Psychology professor put it. Basically, for each disorder, they give a list of criteria, and in order to be diagnosed, you have to have a certain amount (say, 3 out of 5 in one category, 2 out of 5 in another). The degrees of each disorder is INCREDIBLY vast. It's impossible to generalize. It has to be dealt with in each individual case. If this woman has a legit, severe case of schizophrenia, then she needs help, not cruel and unusual punishment.

The good news (at least for you, Jackson13) is that a key factor in diagnosing schizophrenia, which is what she claims to have, is consistency. It has to be prevalent in obstructing everyday life for a certain amount of time (off hand, I think it's at least 6 months). If the father says that's not the case, she probably won't get off.

[Cenopath]

Fry the fucking bitch. And while we're at it, I'd support any kind of federal legislation that would abolish the insanity plea. Even if you have no idea what you're doing, you should do the time for your crimes. Period. Some (not all) mentally ill people constitute a legitimate threat to society and should be put out of their misery.

This woman is from Texas, though, so I'm confident that she will get the death penalty. If this happened in Canada, she'd get six months in prison and the right to vote (thank you very much, Pierre Fuckface Trudeau).

[Tweek]

I have to wonder if she was on any sort of treatment/medication and if she was sticking to it.

[The Postmaster General]

A woman charged with murdering her 3 1/2-week-old son used a knife and two swords to dismember the child and ate parts of his body, including his brain, before stabbing herself in the torso and slicing her own throat, police said Monday.


And the problem some people are having is that "she'll probably claim insanity."?

I mean, at exactly what point of reading this story did anyone come to the conclusion, "Oh, she'll just plead insanity to get off." ---- You know, I mean she killed a 3 1/2 week old kid. Let's just say that's horrible. Okay, she did it using a knife a two swords... Okay, okay, let's just call that extreme. Then she eats his body parts and brain... Well, okay, that's sort of weird, but not crazy. Some cultures eat human body parts. This might just be a culture clash. So what's next... Oh, she stabbed herself in the torso and sliced her own throat... Well, that's not all necessarily crazy, so the damn bitch better not try to say it was!!!!

Hahah. What the fuck is wrong with people, indeed!

[Danger^Cart]

Anyone else getting a Highlander vibe?

[Tweek]

And the problem some people are having is that "she'll probably claim insanity."?

I mean, at exactly what point of reading this story did anyone come to the conclusion, "Oh, she'll just plead insanity to get off." ---- You know, I mean she killed a 3 1/2 week old kid. Let's just say that's horrible. Okay, she did it using a knife a two swords... Okay, okay, let's just call that extreme. Then she eats his body parts and brain... Well, okay, that's sort of weird, but not crazy. Some cultures eat human body parts. This might just be a culture clash. So what's next... Oh, she stabbed herself in the torso and sliced her own throat... Well, that's not all necessarily crazy, so the damn bitch better not try to say it was!!!!

Hahah. What the fuck is wrong with people, indeed!

Well she did try saying that the devil made her do it.

[The Postmaster General]

Well she did try saying that the devil made her do it.

I'm not sure if you gauged the sarcasm in my post. I think it's absurd that people are questioning a plea of insanity.

[Canto]

I agree with Bubba, you are clearly insane if you even kill a baby, let alone dismembering and eating him.

There should be different degrees of insanity pleas that can be made though, like this type of thing, the person should be killed, whats the point in letting her live and trying to treat her when she is crazy enough to do this, there is no way to fix that.

How did she survive slicing her throat?

[Tweek]

I'm not sure if you gauged the sarcasm in my post. I think it's absurd that people are questioning a plea of insanity.

Whoops, I did misinterpret your sarcasm. :o

[Reigh Kaufman]

I agree with Bubba, you are clearly insane if you even kill a baby, let alone dismembering and eating him.

There should be different degrees of insanity pleas that can be made though, like this type of thing, the person should be killed, whats the point in letting her live and trying to treat her when she is crazy enough to do this, there is no way to fix that.

How did she survive slicing her throat?

I am pretty sure that Bubba disagrees with everything you have just said. He was being sardonic.

If you don't believe in psychiatric treament, we have a problem: your post contains pysychopathic elements, particularly in the structure and logic of your argument in relation to your solution - i.e. problem: no acceptable punitive solution to the woman's crime = solution: kill the woman.

Something to think about.

[Canto]

I am pretty sure that Bubba disagrees with everything you have just said. He was being sardonic.

If you don't believe in psychiatric treament, we have a problem: your post contains pysychopathic elements, particularly in the structure and logic of your argument in relation to your solution - i.e. problem: no acceptable punitive solution to the woman's crime = solution: kill the woman.

Something to think about.
What I believe Bubba was saying is that he doesnt understand why most people here are complaining that the lady would plead insanity when she is obviously crazy.

I do believe in psychiatric treatment, but the lady killed and ate her baby what can they really do for her besides drug her up and keep her in a hospital for the rest of her life?

...did you call me a psychopath?

[Cop No. 633]

I guess this is going to become a new thing at Joblo. Every week, we'll find a new story about a murder of a child or an old person and then we'll debate whether or not the killer should be decapitated, castrated, or burned alive with boiling oil. Personally, I choose the boiling oil. If you put garlic and herbs in it, the smell would be quite delicious.

The rate this is going, the only thing that can top this would be if two babies are raped, murdered, then oven roasted, and then given to a shelter for homeless people and those people who eat it develop a craving for baby flesh and then there will be a huge epidemic of baby-q in the homeless.

Folks, be prepared. I think we'll finally get our excuse to start shooting every person who has ripped up jeans and wreaks of BO. I think I'll call my regiment Hammer Fish.

[Reigh Kaufman]

I thought Bubba was saying that most people here are complaining that the lady would plead insanity, and he doesnt understand why she wouldnt when she is obviously crazy.

I do believe in psychiatric treatment, but the lady killed and ate her baby what can they really do for her besides drug her up and keep her in a hospital for the rest of her life?

...did you call me a psychopath?

Do you think I called you a pychopath?

[Canto]

your post contains pysychopathic elements

I dont know, what did you mean by this?

[Reigh Kaufman]

I dont know, what did you mean by this?

What do you think I mean by this?

It means that your post contains both logic and reason, which is the process of a rational and organized mind. Your post is also coherent and lucidly structured; again, a rational and organized mind. However, the post reaches - to my mind, and some others on the forum - an extreme solution. This is (often) characteristic in psychopathy.

It was not calling you a pyschopath, but rather highlighting the irony inherent in your post. If you felt I was calling you a pyschopath because of the information contained in your post, but could not be sure, does that mean that you are incapable of knowing the difference betweeen right and wrong and therefore deserve to be locked up? Or does it simply mean that the post - particularly if you believe in pychiatric help - contains a contradiction. If you are not mad but a pychiatrist reads your post and tells you that, yes, actually you are - are you happy to accept the solution? Even if it meant we locked you up, drugged you up, or executed you?

I don't know if you are a pychopath, and would certainly ever call you one on the forums. But you must see that if you believe yourself to be of sound mind, then advocating the murder of someone not of sound mind (perhaps - we don't yet know) is illogical, and therefore the by-product of a mental illness.

This mother may have felt as sane as you do right now. She may even have felt it was utterly normal right up until...well, we've all read the case.

Now, tell me about your mother?

[Canto]

Haha, wow are you a psychiatrist?

I'm gonna go back to my padded cell now.

[Darth Kenshin]

What I believe Bubba was saying is that he doesnt understand why most people here are complaining that the lady would plead insanity when she is obviously crazy.


If everyone knows what it would take to plead insanity, then it's possible someone can take advantage of the system by committing a crime that LOOKS crazy, when in reality it isn't. That's why it's important that the father said she doesn't have a history of being insane. To be officially diagnosed with schizophrenia, certain symptoms have to persist over an extended period of time.

I'm not saying she's crazy or not. I'm just saying that a proper evaluation needs to be made in every situation.

[Smarmy Douche]

I guess this is going to become a new thing at Joblo. Every week, we'll find a new story about a murder of a child or an old person and then we'll debate whether or not the killer should be decapitated, castrated, or burned alive with boiling oil. Personally, I choose the boiling oil. If you put garlic and herbs in it, the smell would be quite delicious.

The rate this is going, the only thing that can top this would be if two babies are raped, murdered, then oven roasted, and then given to a shelter for homeless people and those people who eat it develop a craving for baby flesh and then there will be a huge epidemic of baby-q in the homeless.

Folks, be prepared. I think we'll finally get our excuse to start shooting every person who has ripped up jeans and wreaks of BO. I think I'll call my regiment Hammer Fish.

Yeah.

With all the Wharrgarbl, fry thyis biattch!!s and everything, which was totally inevitable, I'm not really seeing how this isn't a death penalty thread, which is political, and should be in the politics forum.

[Abbie Normal]

A mother drank vodka and smoked marijuana while taking a vanload of children home from a weekend camping trip that ended in disaster when she went the wrong way on a highway and crashed into an SUV, killing eight people, police said Tuesday.

Diane Schuler, who died along with her 2-year-old daughter and three nieces in her red minivan, had more than 10 drinks of alcohol in her system and a high level of the main ingredient in marijuana, authorities said. A broken 1.75-liter bottle of Absolut vodka was found in her wrecked minivan, police said.

The revelations from the 36-year-old Long Island woman's autopsy helped explain how the woman her family called "an accomplished working mother who always put her children before any other priorities" wound up driving the wrong way for nearly two miles on a suburban parkway before slamming into the SUV.

The July 26 crash on the Taconic State Parkway, about 35 miles northwest of New York City, also killed three men in the SUV. Schuler's 5-year-old son, in her minivan, survived.

Investigators said Schuler had been driving erratically on other upstate roads before getting on the highway for the 140-mile trip home.

Schuler's blood-alcohol level was well above the legal limit, and she still had undigested alcohol in her stomach, State Police Maj. William Carey said Tuesday.


Blood tests also showed she had smoked marijuana 15 minutes to an hour before the crash, said Betsy Spratt, chief toxicologist for the Westchester County medical examiner.

"With that level of alcohol ... she would have had difficulty with perception, with her judgment, with her memory," Spratt said. "You start to get what we call tunnel vision."

Police said no criminal charges were planned in the case.

Roseann Guzzo, whose father and brother were killed in the SUV, said Tuesday her family wanted to meet with prosecutors to discuss the case.

"We're outraged by it," she said. "It's a choice she made. And that choice she made to us is like she committed murder."

"an accomplished working mother who always put her children before any other priorities" I seriously doubt this to be true.

You have to be pretty fucked up to drive in the wrong direction on a highway for two miles.

[QUENTIN]

At least she got the death penalty, right?

[Heisenberg]

The worst ever? Read up on Baby P. Poor little soul.

[God of War]

They'll make a movie out of this in a few years, you wait'n see. :mad:

[Mr.HyDe807]

Terrible. Some of my family and friends go on that parkway to get to a vacation resort we go to every year.

[Abbie Normal]

[quote] The husband of a woman who was drunk and high when she killed herself and seven others in a wrong-way crash on a New York parkway said Thursday she rarely drank and is not an alcoholic.

Citing toxicology reports, police contend that Diane Schuler downed more than 10 vodkas and smoked marijuana before her minivan crashed into an SUV on July 26. Her 2-year-old daughter and three nieces were killed with her, along with three men driving in the SUV. Schuler's 5-year-old son survived.

But Daniel Schuler said that doesn't add up.

"I go to bed every night and my heart is clear. She is not an alcoholic," he told reporters Thursday. "She didn't drink."


His lawyer, Dominic Barbara, said 36-year-old Diane Schuler was diabetic and may have suffered a stroke before the tragic wreck north of New York City. He says she also had a mouth abscess for several weeks and a bump on her leg.

Schuler's husband said he never saw her drunk since the day he met her.[/quoite]

Lawyer, Dominic Barbara? Howard Stern's friend?