MJ?! What a pedophile! He's dead?.... An American Legend!

[Tyler Durden4]

This is from my blog, so.... check it out, this may be a tiny controversial
That Michael Jackson guy, he's the same as an Xbox. 12 Year olds turn him on! HAHAHAH!- what?...He.....Died?....He was a great man, an american legend

I've heard this stuff a ridiculous amount now, and it makes me mad. Not that Michael Jackson's death isn't sad, but you are just pretending to care, and you really don't. 2 months ago, you would have made a ridiculously inappropriate child molestation joke and not care, because to you, that's all he was. Flash Forward to the day he dies, the media just covers that, how a 50 year old man had a heart attack, but not covering the woman that ate her child.
That woman will plead insanity and get away with it, but that's another story.

Yes, in the 80's and part of the 90's, Michael Jackson was the king of pop, but once he molested a child, I kinda lost interest.
DUDE, THAT KID CAME OUT AND SAID HE WAS LYING!
Yeah, so he didn't invite small children to his house to play at Neverland? It happened. Oh, and to the lady with the doves at his last trial, releasing them each time the word "Innocent" was read, what would you do if "Guilty" was read? Pull out a 9MM and start shooting doves? That would've gone over well, I'm glad you were that confident he was innocent.

Whenever I hear someone make a remark about a celebrity, I yell "Hey, they're a good friend of mine" in mockery, because that's what America does. They become SO attached to these people that they've only seen in 35 MM or on their 27 inch TV, that when they leave us, they flip the shit. They act like their grandfather died, but no, someone that has no idea who you are and doesn't care unless you're spending 13 dollars on their CD, and your gonna mope for weeks. It's gonna be all over the TV's.

Gonna pay 30,000 dollars to go to his memorial service? No. Ok, well it'll be on Channels 3,7,9,10,11,15,36,50, and 77. Don't miss it. Seems unlikely

nathankelly1988.blogspot.com

[Shinigami]

It just goes to show you that not too many people actually believed he was a pedophile. People just gave him shit because he was weird and eccentric and had inappropriate viewpoints the rest of us could ridicule him for.

When he died, people stopped. If most of us actually believed he molested a child our attitudes wouldn't have changed when he died. When OJ Simpson kicks the bucket, nobody is going to pay tribute. Because we all figure him for a murdering scumbag.

Jackson was just a punching bag.

[Tyler Durden4]

Very good point, dude.

[Hey Man]

Pedophile or not - admitting to sleeping with children in the same bed, no matter how innocent you claim it to be is criminally wrong. If I had done the same thing, I would be in jail. He had been given a pass for being a celebrity.

Would you let your children sleep in the same bed with some guy that lives next door to you as long as they are making smores and playing video games? Give me a fucking break.

[Shinigami]

^People have been over that point before. We know now that the kid was put up to saying the things he said. If michael jackson wasn't a celebrity, nobody would have been put up to anything and none of this would have seen the light of day. The case happened because he was a celebrity. If he wasn't a celebrity, it wouldn't have gone nearly as far as it did.
Sleeping in the same bed as a child is not a criminal offense in and of itself.

That celebrities get more leniency than you or I is a way to balance out that celebrities get more bullshit than you or I.

[Hey Man]

^People have been over that point before. We know now that the kid was put up to saying the things he said. If michael jackson wasn't a celebrity, nobody would have been put up to anything and none of this would have seen the light of day. The case happened because he was a celebrity. If he wasn't a celebrity, it wouldn't have gone nearly as far as it did.
Sleeping in the same bed as a child is not a criminal offense in and of itself.

That celebrities get more leniency than you or I is a way to balance out that celebrities get more bullshit than you or I.

Are you fucking high? According to Jackson, various children (who are not his) have slept with him in the same bed - adding that it was all purly innocent. If you were doing this, you would be arrested and thrown in jail as no matter how you want to spin it - it's beyond inappropriate.

[starcat]

I have been a MJ supporter since day 1... and i have got alot of shit for it over the years. I do admit to the fact that he was wierd, but because I never believed it the shit that was said and verbally said so I can say what I want now that he is dead. Is sleeping in the same bed as a child and not touching them illegal...uhh, no. Innappropriate...maybe, but not illegal. Do I blame him, not really. I wouldnt let my child sleep over at any grown mans house not related who doesnt have children, but these kids parents did... so if your gonna blame anyone, put the blame where it belongs. When someone has been a part of your whole life... it does make you sad when they die whether you knew them or not. Did I cry, no... but it did bum me out quite a bit!!!

[Hey Man]

I have been a MJ supporter since day 1... and i have got alot of shit for it over the years. I do admit to the fact that he was wierd, but because I never believed it the shit that was said and verbally said so I can say what I want now that he is dead. Is sleeping in the same bed as a child and not touching them illegal...uhh, no. Innappropriate...maybe, but not illegal. Do I blame him, not really. I wouldnt let my child sleep over at any grown mans house not related who doesnt have children, but these kids parents did... so if your gonna blame anyone, put the blame where it belongs. When someone has been a part of your whole life... it does make you sad when they die whether you knew them or not. Did I cry, no... but it did bum me out quite a bit!!!

So you really believe if it was you and someone reported it - you wouldn't be arrested?

[Shinigami]

According to Jackson, various children (who are not his) have slept with him in the same bed - adding that it was all purly innocent. If you were doing this, you would be arrested and thrown in jail as no matter how you want to spin it - it's beyond inappropriate.


I said his behavior was inappropriate in my first post on this thread. You said it was a criminal offense, which it isn't.

[Hey Man]

I said his behavior was inappropriate in my first post on this thread. You said it was a criminal offense, which it isn't.

You do realize that people get arrested for things that may not be deemed a criminal offense per se, but still require an investigation. I am quite sure if some guy was sleeping with children - they would find a way to keep him in custody. It can also become a criminal offense very easily if someone complains about it.

[Shinigami]

^You're doing a lot of assuming.

Beyond that, transferring MJ's case to a civilian doesn't seem practical imo. I'm satisfied with the established story that whatever trauma made him so childlike and prone to these inappropriate situations occurred because of his fame and the abuses that came with fame, which means that he wouldn't have been so eccentric if he wasn't a celebrity. Also, the playground babysitting circumstances at Neverland Ranch were allowed only because of his wealthy status, which means that strange parents would not volunteer their kids to vacation at his house if we wasn't a celebrity. Also, the only children who raised a fuss and pressed charges did so because he was a celebrity, which means that nobody would have fussed and nobody would have pressed charges, and very likely nobody would know a thing was wrong at all.

And even when you simplify MJ's controversy down to "man slept in bed with children who weren't his own", a poor civilian still wouldn't be thrown in jail for the rest of his life under those circumstances alone. Something was wrong with MJ and everybody knew it. But the celebrity status was not his friend, and it did him more harm than good around every turn. I think this is a bad example to pull the celeb leniency card (especially after the kid confessed that nothing happened).

[Hey Man]

^You're doing a lot of assuming.

Beyond that, transferring MJ's case to a civilian doesn't seem practical imo. I'm satisfied with the established story that whatever trauma made him so childlike and prone to these inappropriate situations occurred because of his fame and the abuses that came with fame, which means that he wouldn't have been so eccentric if he wasn't a celebrity. Also, the playground babysitting circumstances at Neverland Ranch were allowed only because of his wealthy status, which means that strange parents would not volunteer their kids to vacation at his house if we wasn't a celebrity. Also, the only children who raised a fuss and pressed charges did so because he was a celebrity, which means that nobody would have fussed and nobody would have pressed charges, and very likely nobody would know a thing was wrong at all.

And even when you simplify MJ's controversy down to "man slept in bed with children who weren't his own", a poor civilian still wouldn't be thrown in jail for the rest of his life under those circumstances alone. Something was wrong with MJ and everybody knew it. But the celebrity status was not his friend, and it did him more harm than good around every turn. I think this is a bad example to pull the celeb leniency card (especially after the kid confessed that nothing happened).

I said nothing about being in jail for the rest of your life, but you can bet your ass you are going to jail until they determine what the fuck is going on in your bedroom.

[Shinigami]

^That I can agree with. If it's all your were suggesting, I misunderstood.

[starcat]

I too appologize. When I hear the term your going to jail, I always assume people are saying that you are actually GOING to jail... but I do see your point. As far as if it would happen to me, I would never do it to think about it. The closest I have gotten to that is babysitting for friends who go out... kids usually being 5 or under... and when it comes time to put them to sleep, lay down with them in the bed until they crash... and a couple of times accidently crash out myself. If anyone would have tried to bring up charges on me I would have been pissed.

[BubbaStrangelove]

You do realize that people get arrested for things that may not be deemed a criminal offense per se, but still require an investigation. I am quite sure if some guy was sleeping with children - they would find a way to keep him in custody. It can also become a criminal offense very easily if someone complains about it.

That's not quite what that means. You can't just call the cops and say that your neighbor is doing something and they'll take your word for it and take them to jail. What you are talking about is in cases where there is reasonable cause to take someone into custody to prevent them from evading being charged - not going to jail, but being detained by police. When you are stopped for a traffic violation, that is an arrest. As in cases like traffic stops, which is technically an arrest. or like if someone appears to have stolen something, police can take them into custody until they collect the evidence.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're talking about here, but sleeping in the same bed with kids isn't an arrest-able offense, it's actually a fairly common practice, especially in poor communities. Criminal offenses are determined based on people complaining, if that was the case, we'd have much better revenge stories happening.

Just as a side note - you can also be charged with a crime without being arrested.

[Hey Man]

That's not quite what that means. You can't just call the cops and say that your neighbor is doing something and they'll take your word for it and take them to jail. What you are talking about is in cases where there is reasonable cause to take someone into custody to prevent them from evading being charged - not going to jail, but being detained by police. When you are stopped for a traffic violation, that is an arrest. As in cases like traffic stops, which is technically an arrest. or like if someone appears to have stolen something, police can take them into custody until they collect the evidence.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're talking about here, but sleeping in the same bed with kids isn't an arrest-able offense, it's actually a fairly common practice, especially in poor communities. Criminal offenses are determined based on people complaining, if that was the case, we'd have much better revenge stories happening.

Just as a side note - you can also be charged with a crime without being arrested.

Let me clear something up for you - a woman can call the cops and say that her boyfriend hit her and they will arrest him without hesitation. Regardless if he did hit or not.

So do you really think that if some people called the cops about some neighbour down the street who apparently is having sleepovers in his bed with local children - that the police won't be knocking this guy's door down and arresting him?

You are right - you are not understanding what I am talking about here. Take Michael Jackson and pretend that he is just a guy that lives down the street from you and isn't remotely famous. If you don't think that is creepy and doesn't warrant a visit from the police with a full investigation - then I don't know what to say.

[Preston_79]

One of his accusers said Jackson gave him alcohol, drugs, showed him porn, and sucked his dick.

In the words of Dave Chapelle "What are you complaining about that sounds like a good motherfuckin host."

Something along those lines.

Micheal Jackson has been dead to me since '91 so I've been over this for a long time. Way beyond the grieving stage.

[someguy]

The rant seems to go off on a tangent but I agree with the opinion that it's ridiculous for people to suddenly give some praise to MJ when they were making all of these accusations while he was alive. Of course the biggest hypocrites of all are the media, throwing these tributes and whatnot on him when they were largely responsible for his downfall.

It's fun to see them pointing their fingers at MJ's doctors and close friends to the point of suggesting that they 'murdered' him by giving him so many drugs. They never seem to try and bring up what exactly might have made him start using drugs so heavily though.

[Danger^Cart]

It just goes to show you that not too many people actually believed he was a pedophile. People just gave him shit because he was weird and eccentric and had inappropriate viewpoints the rest of us could ridicule him for.

You're right, he turned his home into a giant kiddie beartrap just for the fuck of it.

I would bet my life on that dude being a fucking pedo. It's so blatantly obvious. That's why it was made into a big deal. Because fucking little children is a big deal. Just because one sleazeball parent, or even a few sleazeball parents take advantage of the situation doesn't mean Michael Jackson didn't play doctor with countless other kids.

And this is why you won't hear me giving my phony condolences. Fuck that sick fuck.

Billie Jean is a great track though. Thumbs up.

[CosmicPuppet]

Let me clear something up for you - a woman can call the cops and say that her boyfriend hit her and they will arrest him without hesitation. Regardless if he did hit or not.

So do you really think that if some people called the cops about some neighbour down the street who apparently is having sleepovers in his bed with local children - that the police won't be knocking this guy's door down and arresting him?

You are right - you are not understanding what I am talking about here. Take Michael Jackson and pretend that he is just a guy that lives down the street from you and isn't remotely famous. If you don't think that is creepy and doesn't warrant a visit from the police with a full investigation - then I don't know what to say.

Isn't all of this negated by the fact that the kids' parents let them stay over at his mansion? It's not like Michael just drove around in an ice cream truck and invited kids to come stay over. The parents were fine with it. Why would the police get involved?

[Hey Man]

Isn't all of this negated by the fact that the kids' parents let them stay over at his mansion? It's not like Michael just drove around in an ice cream truck and invited kids to come stay over. The parents were fine with it. Why would the police get involved?

The police would get involved if I didn't think it was appropriate despite the parents and complained. Nowadays the police don't fuck around with potential pedo's.

[BubbaStrangelove]

Let me clear something up for you - a woman can call the cops and say that her boyfriend hit her and they will arrest him without hesitation. Regardless if he did hit or not.

So do you really think that if some people called the cops about some neighbour down the street who apparently is having sleepovers in his bed with local children - that the police won't be knocking this guy's door down and arresting him?

You aren't even responding to what I said, and frankly you don't know what you are talking about, or at least what you are actually saying. It's like you saw that I disagreed with you and dug into your cache of repeating the exact same false information you've already given. The only difference is you took on a psuedo-condescending tone this time around, as if it gives more weight to repeating yourself.

Here, let me clear it up for you - You are confusing being detained with being arrested.

If a woman calls the cops and says a guy hit her, the police will arrive and DETAIN the man. They will also DETAIN the woman. This is so they can investigate if there was a crime committed. An ARREST is when there is probable cause, and detainment is when there is reasonable suspicion.

No, they aren't going to show up and read the guy his rights and take him to jail. There's about 1000 episodes of "COPS" that shows this happening, and pretty much any google search that looks beyond wiki and yahoo answers will also explain this. They are going to DETAIN the man on the reasonable cause that he was accused of a crime. Then if they find evidence that she was hit, then they have probable cause, and can arrest.

You can be detained without being arrested if the police suspect that you are or were recently engaged in criminal activity or that you might be armed. For example, the police may ask you to identify yourself and may conduct a limited search for weapons if they observe you pacing in front of a closed store in the dark.

- http://www.yourcriminaldefenseattorney.com/you_need_to_know_-_being_detained__arrested

Detentions are shorter in duration and scope than arrest, and require a lower burden of proof.

If I have Reasonable Suspicion that a crime has or is about to occur, and reasonably believe that a person may have information about this, I can detain them for a short period of time to investigate the matter. As part of my investigation, I can conduct a pat down for weapons (if I reasonably believe that they may be present) and seek information to determine exactly what is, has, or will happen. The timeframe can vary a bit due to each set of circumstances, but 20 minutes or so has been ruled to be a reasonable timeframe for detaining someone.

If I have Probable Cause to believe a specific person has committed a crime, I can arrest that person. At that point, I can conduct a complete search of their person for weapons, evidence, and contraband, as well as their vehcile if they are or have been near it recently. I can remove them from the scene and hold them (in jail) for 24 hours or until I get a warrant issued for the charges. - http://www.realpolice.net/forums/ask-cop-112/81879-detained-vs-arrested.html

In the spirit of your line of questioning, Hey Man: Do you really think that a cracked out whore saying someone beat her up is probably cause for the police to arrest someone or do you think it's reasonable suspicion that further information needs to be gathered?

I think one difference between you and I, Hey Man, is that you respond to me like I'm confused based on reasonable suspicion, and I respond likewise based on probable cause. (JOKING!!) :) Love you, man.


You are right - you are not understanding what I am talking about here. Take Michael Jackson and pretend that he is just a guy that lives down the street from you and isn't remotely famous. If you don't think that is creepy and doesn't warrant a visit from the police with a full investigation - then I don't know what to say.

I never said that was or wasn't the case. All I said is that it's common, especially in the poor to have adults and children sleeping in beds together, even with strangers/sleep overs.

Yes, I think an investigation will occur based on reasonable suspicion, but I doubt there will be an arrest based on probable cause, unless they actually find probable cause. I'm pretty sure my reason for thinking this has something to do with the Bill of Rights and due process of the law.



It's fun to see them pointing their fingers at MJ's doctors and close friends to the point of suggesting that they 'murdered' him by giving him so many drugs. They never seem to try and bring up what exactly might have made him start using drugs so heavily though.

Going on the lines of tangents, someguy... There's been so many times where I've gotten angry thinking, "The fucking DEA controlled health care system in America!!! It's Michael fucking Jackson. That man should be allowed a truck load of pain killers to his house! What's this world coming too if we can't like Michael Jackson be high off his ass.

Okay, maybe not as much a tangent as just weird.

[SAI]

All this argument aside... the art is seperate from the artist. Christian Bale behaved like a cock on the Terminator: Salvation set, he's still a great actor. John Wayne was right wing to the point that he once said he believed in white supremacy, he's a cinematic legend whose films are screened daily the world over. I found Michael Jackson creepy, and I thought it was at least likely that he comitted crimes against children, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be remembered as a brilliant musician, it doesn't suddenly mean that Off the Wall and Thriller aren't great albums.

[Danger^Cart]

John Wayne was right wing to the point that he once said he believed in white supremacy, he's a cinematic legend whose films are screened daily the world over.

"Fuck Communism."

I feel that's not a real worthy comparison though. A lot of good people from that generation were racist because they'd been brought up that way. Truest example of being a product of ones environment. Whereas at no point in America's history has it been socially acceptable to diddle a little boy.

I really can't listen to a Michael Jackson song now without associating this disgusting shit. Sucks, but I suppose if the terrorists who flew those planes into the towers had released a critically acclaimed album a few years prior, I'd have trouble listening to that as well.

An artist can do something so heinous it transcends their work. Sometimes it's impossible to just "disconnect."

[BubbaStrangelove]

What I don't understand is this emerging culture of pedophilia obsession. I've been seeing this so much. It's like I hear Billie Jean and imagine myself trying to breakdance in the 80s, while others hear Billie Jean and imgaine nasty adult-on-kid sex.

It reminds me of the 80s when the media scared everyone into thinking that every single person who gives candy to kids at Halloween is a monster that should be feared.

Some people the glass is half full, other's it's half empty, but it's like more and more there's this third group that jerks off into the glass and wants to show that cum-filled glass to people every chance they get.

[Danger^Cart]

I know what you mean, and I don't mean to come off as some paranoid pedo-hunter. I just see this house that's the manifestation of every adolescent wet-dream ever, sprinkled with a touch of jesus-dust just to be sure, and I think to myself, "Wow, Michael Jackson really likes to fuck young boys. Like, he's reeeaaaallly into that, now isn't he," and it's just jaw-dropping to me everyone else doesn't think that too.

[BubbaStrangelove]

Haha, well said.

I don't think you're a pedo-hunter, just that it's like you're taking a worst-case scenario and running with it. It's beyond that though, because of the subject matter. I just don't want to think about Michael Jackson fucking little kids. It's just that's all it is. I think that is a horrible thing to do. Really. Really. Really. But it's like one of those things that has no effect on my life, and while I know it deeply and horribly would effect the life of a child, it's not like I'm condoning it. I dig his music. If the kid who accused him of stuff said that Thriller was a shit album, I'd respect his opinion more than all the people on Joblo put together. I wish that kid all the best. I frankly just don't want to think about the discoloration of Michael Jackson's penis or the topic of man on boy sex.

It's not that I don't want to think, period. This is real stuff, and people always say, "Well would you let your kid stay the night at Michael Jackson's house?" I mean, aside from being silly as asking me if I wanted to put a saddle on a possum and ride to the moon, okay, yeah, I have to think about the safety of my kid. Of course, I don't want anything bad to happen. That's when I want to think about this type of heinous and horrible shit. Not when I'm fucking listening to Thriller. At the least, it totally breaks up the narrative when I watch the video.

For the record, if for some reason my kid was asked (or lured if you really want) to stay at Jackson's house, sure I would let him on the condition that I was there and with him at all time. If anything went out of the ordinary, like if Jackson started trying to trick me into seeing some far out shit or taking my kid potty, I'd go fucking Joe Hallenbeck on Neverland and some aquariums would start getting broken. Jackson would try some Captain Eo shit, but I'd be out of there faster than those statues came to life and started dancing and shooting rainbows. Fuck that. I mean... assuming Jackson invited my kid to spend the night at his house.

Sure, there are times when things take a slightly strange turn in my head, the same as when I would watch Frasier, knowing an actor was gay and seeing him act like a horn dog -- I would think more of something like that, because it's a positive thing, funny. Michael Jackson screwing kids is no joking matter. I'm not even touching on the fact that I'm not sure he really went as far as the worst is. There is stuff pointing one way and stuff pointing the other way, so it's just a whole can of worms... over fucking decades old pop music. In my book, the statute of limitations on associating child rape with top 40 music has run out.

[Danger^Cart]

I wish I could go back to that magical place, where unicorns frolicked and Aslan was king and I didn't associate "Beat It" with violent adolescent ass-rape.

But those days are gone. And they're never coming back.

[BubbaStrangelove]

But Danger.... there was no man on child sex... remember the time... weeee-heeeee

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/hypnotic_pattern.gif

[Pentangeli]

What I don't understand is this emerging culture of pedophilia obsession.

Don't you think paedophilia occurs as much as the general public and media portray? or is it that you feel the crime is not as severe as the general public and media portray?


And another thing, when people say the kids slept in Jackson's bed, do they mean they were in one of his many beds sleeping alone, or was Jackson in the same bed?

[BubbaStrangelove]

Don't you think paedophilia occurs as much as the general public and media portray? or is it that you feel the crime is not as severe as the general public and media portray?

No I think the abhorrence toward the crime is right on the money and if anything could be more. I actually think it happens more than the media and gen. public portray. I'm also not of the mindset that the crime itself is a "trendy" topic which I mistakingly implied with my halloween candy analogy. It's more along the lines that it's like we've become conditioned to think, "Oh pedophiliac! Of course! Ha!" --- It's as if society has become desensitized to it to the point that it's a common discussion in relation to pop music.

If Jackson had written songs about boning kids, I would understand the need to associate. To me, the secondary issue is people pretending like celebrities are their associates and peers. A symptom of that is people asking if "you" would let your kid sleep at Jackson's house. I don't fucking know Michael Jackson. I know his music. I know his dancing, and I know they don't rape children. With all the potential problems in my life, why the fuck do I need to go on a crusade to concern myself with how people view Michael Jackson. Aren't there websites you can go on and find pedos living in your neighborhood. Where are all the blogs about these nobodies? I worry about that creepy groundskeeper who keeps peering in my window, not reputation of a skeleton who recorded hit albums 20 years ago.

Society likes a good scare story over worrying about actual threats. Oh, halloween candy is poisoned, lets not worry that aspirin is killing more kids than halloween candy, it's about what's getting the press at the moment. Last week we were all concerned over Jon and Kate berating their 8, but now that's passed and I'm supposed to believe that we are genuinely concerned about the affect on children from Michael Jackson - especially, and this seals the deal for me, especially since no one has given a shit since the last time he was in the news.

Why weren't all these concerned citizens protesting Jackson in between news stories? Why weren't they letting up and blogging and ranting that this alleged monster remains free? They weren't because they are taking a serious and grave act and reducing it to pop culture celeb gossip pap and I don't like that. Trying to make it an act of righteousness only makes me like it less.

And another thing, when people say the kids slept in Jackson's bed, do they mean they were in one of his many beds sleeping alone, or was Jackson in the same bed?

Same bed.

[Heisenberg]

I personally don't think he was a pedo, he was wierd and eccentric. And in the media spotlight, that calls for all sorts of accusations. I really feel sorry for him, he was just about to redeem himself with these london concerts and he died a week before. Poor guy.

[QUENTIN]

There's a few things going on in this rant:

-Yes, it is mighty disingenuous for people, especially those in the media, who spent the last decade berating, mocking, and accusing Michael Jackson of the most heinous crime imaginable, all the while insinuating his guilt and playing up his eccentricities, to now pretend none of that happened and go through the standard celebrity memorial rituals now that he is dead from drug dependency that was largely incited by their behavior. Totally with you there.

-Sleeping in the same bed with a child is not wrong and certainly isn't illegal. As a child, I slept in the same bed as an adult family friend when I stayed with him and with my parents on occasion. This is not abnormal or immoral. Inappropriately touching, molesting, or in any way enaging in sexual behavior with a child is. But bed doesn't equal sex. I've shared a bed with some platonic female friends as well, we slept, which is what a bed is intended for. That's not sexual assault and there was no sexual connotation to it. It's prudent not to share a mattress with a child you're not related to, and questionable to do so, but if there's no sexual motivation or misconduct, it's not a crime or wrong.

-Jackson was robbed of a childhood by an abusive and overbearing father and the same troubles of growing up famous in the media spotlight that all child stars have, but moreso because he was the most famous and successful child star there ever was. Everafter, he had a psychologically and socially abnormal, but not immoral or illegal, obsession with regaining and reliving a childhood he lost by doing child-like things like riding ferris wheels and playing games, having child friends, and having an apparently emotionally stunted personality. These eccentricities among others were exacerbated by increased media scrutiny and misrepresentation, a painful and disfiguring accident, and his eventual descent into heavy drug use and an obsession with plastic surgery. Certainly no one doubts that he became a weird guy, but weird doesn't equal pedophile and his strangeness has a pretty well understood basis.

-- All the talk of he must have been a pedophile and he clearly was a pedophile and yada yada amounts to nothing more than "Guilty until, and even when, proven innocent." In his first trial, the boy he was alleged to have abused only said he was abused while under the influence of a powerful, mind-altering sedative administered by his father, who had previously threatened to "ruin" Jackson and the boy has subsequently recanted his story and denied any wrongdoing on the part of Jackson. Accusations since then have been legally exposed as successful and unsuccessful attempts at extortion. His first trial for sexual abuse in 2003 contained many charges, and required an intensive investigation, he was acquitted on every charge and found not guilty.

Jackson was the subject of intense scrutiny and detailed investigation regarding charges of sexual misconduct with children, he was always determined to be innocent of those charges and those accusing him were always shown to have a monetary motivation for making them. "But but but, he was so weird!" Yep, that doesn't mean pedophile. When it comes to public opinion in this country, it seems all that's needed is an accusation before we're convinced someone needs to be hung from a pillory.

Personally, I think it's a shame that he was dogged his whole life by so many misfortunes and demons that ended up totally ruining him personally and professionally and leading to a premature death.

[Hey Man]

There's a few things going on in this rant:

-Yes, it is mighty disingenuous for people, especially those in the media, who spent the last decade berating, mocking, and accusing Michael Jackson of the most heinous crime imaginable, all the while insinuating his guilt and playing up his eccentricities, to now pretend none of that happened and go through the standard celebrity memorial rituals now that he is dead from drug dependency that was largely incited by their behavior. Totally with you there.

-Sleeping in the same bed with a child is not wrong and certainly isn't illegal. As a child, I slept in the same bed as an adult family friend when I stayed with him and with my parents on occasion. This is not abnormal or immoral. Inappropriately touching, molesting, or in any way enaging in sexual behavior with a child is. But bed doesn't equal sex. I've shared a bed with some platonic female friends as well, we slept, which is what a bed is intended for. That's not sexual assault and there was no sexual connotation to it. It's prudent not to share a mattress with a child you're not related to, and questionable to do so, but if there's no sexual motivation or misconduct, it's not a crime or wrong.

-Jackson was robbed of a childhood by an abusive and overbearing father and the same troubles of growing up famous in the media spotlight that all child stars have, but moreso because he was the most famous and successful child star there ever was. Everafter, he had a psychologically and socially abnormal, but not immoral or illegal, obsession with regaining and reliving a childhood he lost by doing child-like things like riding ferris wheels and playing games, having child friends, and having an apparently emotionally stunted personality. These eccentricities among others were exacerbated by increased media scrutiny and misrepresentation, a painful and disfiguring accident, and his eventual descent into heavy drug use and an obsession with plastic surgery. Certainly no one doubts that he became a weird guy, but weird doesn't equal pedophile and his strangeness has a pretty well understood basis.

-- All the talk of he must have been a pedophile and he clearly was a pedophile and yada yada amounts to nothing more than "Guilty until, and even when, proven innocent." In his first trial, the boy he was alleged to have abused only said he was abused while under the influence of a powerful, mind-altering sedative administered by his father, who had previously threatened to "ruin" Jackson and the boy has subsequently recanted his story and denied any wrongdoing on the part of Jackson. Accusations since then have been legally exposed as successful and unsuccessful attempts at extortion. His first trial for sexual abuse in 2003 contained many charges, and required an intensive investigation, he was acquitted on every charge and found not guilty.

Jackson was the subject of intense scrutiny and detailed investigation regarding charges of sexual misconduct with children, he was always determined to be innocent of those charges and those accusing him were always shown to have a monetary motivation for making them. "But but but, he was so weird!" Yep, that doesn't mean pedophile. When it comes to public opinion in this country, it seems all that's needed is an accusation before we're convinced someone needs to be hung from a pillory.

Personally, I think it's a shame that he was dogged his whole life by so many misfortunes and demons that ended up totally ruining him personally and professionally and leading to a premature death.

Don't be so naive. Jackson hardly knew some of the children he slept with, but the parents allowed it anyway. I trust your relationship with your family friend was stronger.

I find it very telling that you simply choose to ignore the fact that if Jackson was nobody and living down the street from you - all the while sleeping with the neighbourhood kids is somehow normal to you and not worthy of a full investigation even if it ends up being innocent. Jackson had been sleeping with children for years before he was finally investigated. Jackson should have been investigated long ago.

The bottom line is that there are Michael Jackson fans that are so in love with him, that they choose to ignore reality and the fact that if Michael Jackson was a nobody, they would probably call out for his blood upon hearing of some guy admitting to sleeping with various children - none of which are related to him or even what one would call good friends.

[QUENTIN]

Don't be so naive. Jackson hardly knew some of the children he slept with, but the parents allowed it anyway. I trust your relationship with your family friend was stronger.

I find it very telling that you simply choose to ignore the fact that if Jackson was nobody and living down the street from you - all the while sleeping with the neighbourhood kids is somehow normal to you and not worthy of a full investigation even if it ends up being innocent. Jackson had been sleeping with children for years before he was finally investigated. Jackson should have been investigated long ago.

The bottom line is that there are Michael Jackson fans that are so in love with him, that they choose to ignore reality and the fact that if Michael Jackson was a nobody, they would probably call out for his blood upon hearing of some guy admitting to sleeping with various children - none of which are related to him or even what one would call good friends.

I hardly think I'm being naive, though yes my family friend (who had a studio apartment, hence the one bed) was much closer and more well-known to my family than I imagine Jackson was to the families of the boys he shared a bed with.

I think you've misread me or assumed something I didn't say and don't think. I'm not much of a fan of his and that and his fame has nothing to do with my assertion that it's fucked up to declare someone surely guilty when they were routinely thoroughly investigated and always found innocent.

Not to get too personal, but I'm particularly concerned with children's welfare and particularly disgusted by pedophilia. My best friend, mother, and an ex-girlfriend of three years were all victims of childhood sexual assault. Were Jackson anything but fully exonerated every single time another rumor or accusation popped up, I'd be leading the chorus of "Off with his head." I happen think it was very appropriate and a good thing that Jackson was fully investigated for possible sexual misconduct, given that he was sharing a bed with children. But I find it very telling that you choose to ignore the unanimous results of those investigations.

It's entirely appropriate to be suspicious of an adult with that kind of relationship with kids. It's abnormal and alerts any reasonable person to the possibility of a terrible motive and misconduct. But when time and again it's demonstrated that, basically he was a weird guy who never got to have friends as a kid because of a terrible childhood, and given infinite means as an adult tried to relive a childhood where he got to have sleepovers and play at an amusement park all day, I don't see how any reasonable person can still declare that guy a pedophile. Weird, sure, inappropriate, I can understand, but it's a huge fucking leap from someone who strangely would rather act like and hang out with kids (giving tons of money and time to children's charities mind you) and someone who rapes kids. It's a totally undeserved, unsubstantiated, and horrible accusation that he was cleared of repeatedly after multiple independent and official investigations and a lengthy trial.

There is no known evidence that Michael Jackson ever sexually abused any child. There is ample evidence that he did not and that those who accused him were lying for financial gain. All that stands against him are accusations and assumptions, and in a system where one is supposedly innocent until proven guilty, I find it distressing and disgusting that people so quickly condemn others based on unsubstantiated and even disproven accusation alone.

[Danger^Cart]

I suppose O.J. was innocent as well? People can choose to blindly ignore the obvious because of some questionable verdict if they so wish, but the justice system aids the guilty and fails the innocent all the time, and the more money one has the more likely it'll spin in their favor.

Call me cynical all you want, but Michael Jackson had more than enough money to buy his way out of any jam, up to and including fucking little kids.

[Hey Man]

I suppose O.J. was innocent as well? People can choose to blindly ignore the obvious because of some questionable verdict if they so wish, but the justice system aids the guilty and fails the innocent all the time, and the more money one has the more likely it'll spin in their favor.

Call me cynical all you want, but Michael Jackson had more than enough money to buy his way out of any jam, up to and including fucking little kids.

You are correct sir. Just because the courts say Jackson is innocent does not make it so. He could very well be innocent, but he could have also bought his freedom.

[Reigh Kaufman]

You are correct sir. Just because the courts say Jackson is innocent does not make it so. He could very well be innocent, but he could have also bought his freedom.

Could.

But you have no interest in believing his innocence, do you?

I mean, if he was innocent, where else could you vent your self-righteous anger?

People are afraid of paedophiles (English spelling), but even more afraid of being falsely accused of commiting this terrible crime. This is why the mob forms: it wants everyone to see and hear how indignant it is about this type of person.

That way they can never be falsely accused. If you want people to believe you are incapable of paedophilia, shout the loudest and condemn the harshest.

Who cares if the person is innocent, so long as nobody could ever accuse you?

[SpiralEye]

I suppose O.J. was innocent as well? People can choose to blindly ignore the obvious because of some questionable verdict if they so wish, but the justice system aids the guilty and fails the innocent all the time, and the more money one has the more likely it'll spin in their favor.

Call me cynical all you want, but Michael Jackson had more than enough money to buy his way out of any jam, up to and including fucking little kids.

Dead on. Money will get you some amazing results when it comes to the legal system.

Also, does anyone question why these parents let their kids go to his house and sleep in their beds? Money. He paid them. Duh. So are the parents the only guilty ones? No. The guys who offers money for your kids is just as guilty.

If you don't think MJ's relationships to these children was highly inappropriate, then you're being too opaque. "It coulda been this or that" is stretching beyond common sense.

Know what else common sense tells me? That if you get acquitted of child molestation, and you didn't do it...THEN DON'T SLEEP IN BEDS WITH LITTLE KIDS ANYMORE. Don't have them over to watch cartoons, ride your merry-go-rounds, or swim in your pool. But guess what? HE DID. MANY MANY TIMES.

Hello. Welcome to reality.

[Danger^Cart]

Reigh just totally called me a pedophile. Erroneous!

[Reigh Kaufman]

Reigh just totally called me a pedophile. Erroneous!

Yeah, I re-read it. It does sound a bit like that.

I simply meant that people need to humanize their fears and Michael Jackson was simply a projection of their anger or, in some cases, their guilt.

Apologies for the wording.

[Danger^Cart]

No worries, man.

Todd Field movies aside, however, I don't really think it's appropriate to label outer-projection as inner-turmoil. It's a bit cliche actually. Not all gay bashers are gay. I'd say most of them just hate gays.

I don't hate pedophiles because my uncle touched my naughty place when I was seven, or out of some misplaced sense of moral fortitude and social justice, I hate pedophiles because they're depraved and disgusting, pathetic, cowardly pieces of shit. Basically.

I really don't mean to sound like some kind of misguided champion for the wronged. I'm gonna stop now.

[Hey Man]

Could.

But you have no interest in believing his innocence, do you?

I mean, if he was innocent, where else could you vent your self-righteous anger?

People are afraid of paedophiles (English spelling), but even more afraid of being falsely accused of commiting this terrible crime. This is why the mob forms: it wants everyone to see and hear how indignant it is about this type of person.

That way they can never be falsely accused. If you want people to believe you are incapable of paedophilia, shout the loudest and condemn the harshest.

Who cares if the person is innocent, so long as nobody could ever accuse you?

I have complete interest in believing his innocence, but the fact of the matter is that the investigations and trial against him were a total joke and an embarrassment to the justice system. Have a REAL trial and investigation and then I will be happy to sing we are the world with you if he is found to be innocent.

[SpiralEye]

Could.

But you have no interest in believing his innocence, do you?

I mean, if he was innocent, where else could you vent your self-righteous anger?

People are afraid of paedophiles (English spelling), but even more afraid of being falsely accused of commiting this terrible crime. This is why the mob forms: it wants everyone to see and hear how indignant it is about this type of person.

That way they can never be falsely accused. If you want people to believe you are incapable of paedophilia, shout the loudest and condemn the harshest.

Who cares if the person is innocent, so long as nobody could ever accuse you?

You're off-base here. I could see your argument used if Jackson was still alive, but Hey Man is being reactionary here, not leading a lynch mob.

So your pseudo-intellectual, holier-than-thou psychological assessment is irrelevant here. Yes, we all hate pedophiles because we're afraid of being accused of one. That makes perfect sense. It's not because child-rape is one of the most vile crimes you can commit as a human being.

Right on.

[Shinigami]

Michael Jackson can't be a pedophile because I like his music.

[Hey Man]

Michael Jackson can't be a pedophile because I like his music.

You just described millions of Jackson fans. Fact.

[QUENTIN]

I suppose O.J. was innocent as well? People can choose to blindly ignore the obvious because of some questionable verdict if they so wish, but the justice system aids the guilty and fails the innocent all the time, and the more money one has the more likely it'll spin in their favor.

Call me cynical all you want, but Michael Jackson had more than enough money to buy his way out of any jam, up to and including fucking little kids.

O.J. was probably guilty, which is why a civil court and subsequent investigation found him guilty and the only reason he's still out there (or in jail for a different crime) is because of double jeopardy laws.

O.J. didn't have half a dozen police and independent investigations over the course of 10+ years all come to the conclusion that he was innocent. O.J. didn't have witnesses recant their testimony as soon as they were adults. O.J. wasn't solely accused by people who were also trying to get money out of him. O.J. didn't have any of those accusers found guilty of extortion.

I'm all too familiar with the American justice system and surely believe M.J. could have gotten away with raping a kid. But several kids, over the course of several investigations, while being intensely scrutinized and assumed by all to already be guilty? No way.

I feel like you guys are unaware or intentionally ignoring the fact that there is no evidence and never was that Michael Jackson sexually abused anyone. All of the ample evidence collected over 15 years proved otherwise and his accusers were legally determined to be attempting extortion for monetary gain. You guys know that the first kid who accused him did so, under pressure from his father while his father was in the room, after his father had given him a mind-altering sedative? That that father had previously been recorded saying he was going to "ruin" Jackson, take him for all he was worth, get publicity and that he would make a call to the authorities he "can get everything I want and Jackson will be destroyed big time?" That Jackson only gave them an out of court settlement because his lawyers advised him that settling out of court would cost less than their fees to represent him in court (already $2 mil by pre-trial), that the kid's description of Jackson's penis was highly inaccurate (uncut vs cut), and that the kid recanted his testimony later in life?

But it's been a national joke for 2 decades now though, so people just get set in their ways regardless I guess. Couldn't possibly have assumed he was guilty when he was accused then found out otherwise. Once assumed, always assumed. He was a freak, such a weird guy who didn't act socially acceptable and got all those plastic surgeries and had the elephant man's bones, he must have also raped children. Those two go hand-in-hand. Different = guilty.

I'm not defending a pedophile, I'm defending someone who wasn't a pedophile because as Reigh pointed out, all it takes is an accusation and the righteous anger comes flowing from all sides, no matter how baseless.

[QUENTIN]

I have complete interest in believing his innocence, but the fact of the matter is that the investigations and trial against him were a total joke and an embarrassment to the justice system.

What is your basis for asserting this?

[Reigh Kaufman]

You're off-base here. I could see your argument used if Jackson was still alive, but Hey Man is being reactionary here, not leading a lynch mob.

So your pseudo-intellectual, holier-than-thou psychological assessment is irrelevant here. Yes, we all hate pedophiles because we're afraid of being accused of one. That makes perfect sense. It's not because child-rape is one of the most vile crimes you can commit as a human being.

Right on.



I covered both bases. Those who are afraid of paedophiles and those who are paedophiles.

So your pseudo-indignant, too-sardonic-for-school response is irrelevant.

Power to the people.

[Hey Man]

What is your basis for asserting this?

He had a "Hollywood" trial - he didn't have a me and you trial if you know what I mean.

[Natty]

I think MJ probably was a paedophile but still, he was a big and inspirational figure in the music industry so surely it's understandable for people to feel sad about his death. I think that those who loved him a lot always denied he was a child molester whereas many people (as this thread and the one that was started when he died proves) were simply like "nah I don't give shit he was a paedo!"

Basically I feel that its only really the general media who are guilty what you are ranting about.

Flash Forward to the day he dies, the media just covers that, how a 50 year old man had a heart attack, but not covering the woman that ate her child.

I never like this arguement. Michael Jackson is the most famous man on Earth and he died, that's why the media covered it more than anything else. For example, there are numerous horrific crimes happening in Sudan and the Middle East but you chose an American crime to compare it too...because you are American. The media will cover things that appeal/interest the people, not neccessarily whatever is the worst thing.

[Shinigami]

In a perfect world I could trust to news to lift their chins to popular entertainment stories and focus on the most pressing or important that I should be informed about. But that's not our world, and as much as I'm frustrated when articles get distracted by a celebrity passing, I'm that much more frustrated with people for choosing to buy a Michael Jackson cover over anything else.

I'm guilty of this. But my own guilt doesn't excuse the population at large.

[SpiralEye]

Michael Jackson's ex-housekeeper has lashed out at his former employer with a series of explosive allegations - accusing the late star of allowing kid visitors to drink so much alcohol they would vomit on the carpet Dwayne Swingler, who was hired by the "Thriller" superstar to run his Neverland Estate in California, claims Jackson was so doped up on prescription drugs, he used to pass out while the children he invited over to the famous range guzzled alcohol that was kept in his bedroom.

Swingler insists the youngsters would get so intoxicated, they would get sick in the star's private chamber while he was "unconscious". And he reveals that Jackson kept his young pals on a rota system - insisting only the King of Pop's favourites were allowed to stay in his room. In a shocking interview with Britain's People newspaper, Swingler says,

"Only the very special kids were allowed to stay in Michael's bed.

"They were on a strict rotation in terms of who was allowed to cuddle up with him at night. There were a good five to seven kids in total who were his regulars - they ranged in age from 12 to 14.

"Michael was high most of the time, so he'd often pass out in the bed while the kids enjoyed drinking the 'Jesus Juice' as he called it and partied all night in his room.

"They would have bottles of light beer or white or red wine from his cellar, which was right there in his bedroom.

"The youngsters would become so drunk they were often sick on the floor while Jacko was on the bed unconscious. I'd have to get someone to clean it up in the morning."

But the staff member insists he couldn't tell the children not to get drunk - because they were the "boss". He adds,

"The kids were our boss, I mean, I couldn't say, 'Hey, put the wine back'. They were in charge."


No, he was a great guy when it came to kids. I'm sure this is just speculation. There's no way he could ever do those things. He was falsely accused. Twice. They just hit you with molestation charges for the hell of it. Twice.

Make love, not war.

[QUENTIN]

He had a "Hollywood" trial - he didn't have a me and you trial if you know what I mean.

Sure, I know what you mean. But what about all the charges that never made it to trial? What about the fact that the accusation that led to that trial, Hollywood and wealthy and all that it may have been, that found him completely innocent of every charge, was preceded by several other charges leveled against him over the course of a decade all of which were investigated and all of which, upon investigation, were found to be totally void of facts, plausibility, or evidence, and some of the accusers were found to be extorting Jackson?

Fool 'em once I can believe, fool 'em endlessly for 15 years while under the microscope I just can't buy. I think this has way more to do with pop culture popular consensus than any reasonable doubt.

[Reigh Kaufman]

No, he was a great guy when it came to kids. I'm sure this is just speculation. There's no way he could ever do those things. He was falsely accused. Twice. They just hit you with molestation charges for the hell of it. Twice.

Make love, not war.


Money can overcome the law if you are extremely wealthy, but it cannot prevent people with fuck all money from making shit up about you for money?

Please.

People are saying he must have been guilty despite being repeatedly cleared of all charges. When this fact is pointed out, it's his wealth that saved him. It is not possible, it seems, that it was his wealth that resulted in the accusations in the first place.

LOL.

Make hay while the sun shines.

[Danger^Cart]

Money can overcome the law if you are extremely wealthy, but it cannot prevent people with fuck all money from making shit up about you for money?


I actually adressed this in an earlier post. I don't think a few taking advantage of the situation completely negates the situation itself.

@QT

I don't think anyone, even the people involved, can claim the full extent of the "investigation." There's no way that you or I can know how thorough it actually was, and how much was a puppet show for the public. Though admittedly, this is starting to delve dangerously close to conspiracy theory.




Who dares wins.

[SpiralEye]

Money can overcome the law if you are extremely wealthy, but it cannot prevent people with fuck all money from making shit up about you for money?

Please.

People are saying he must have been guilty despite being repeatedly cleared of all charges. When this fact is pointed out, it's his wealth that saved him. It is not possible, it seems, that it was his wealth that resulted in the accusations in the first place.

LOL.

Make hay while the sun shines.

Pretty dismissive opinion, depite lack of evidence either way. You would go so far to defend MJ that you would dismiss this allegation as outright false? Your previous posts seemed a bit more balanced than this.

LOL.

Heavy.

[enver]

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/kahne8198/ChrisHanson.jpg

[Danger^Cart]

^^

This is where Reigh's theory of subtle deception and subconcious proclamation takes warrant.

That dude is totally a fuckin' pedo!

[Reigh Kaufman]

Pretty dismissive opinion, depite lack of evidence either way. You would go so far to defend MJ that you would dismiss this allegation as outright false? Your previous posts seemed a bit more balanced than this.

LOL.

Heavy.

You would go so far as to condemn him without considering that the allegation is false?

I have the evidence required: see QUENTIN's post. That and, y'know, his acquittal.

You have the hearsay of an ex-employee speaking to a tabloid newspaper for CA$H!


You seem to prefer the media (who have to sell their wares to the public at the expense of truth and integrity) and a bunch of money-grabbing extortionsts (cf: QUENTIN's post) version of events and not the justice system of America. This, many of you keep saying, is because there was a precedent set by O.J. Simpson. How are they the same? Because they are both rich and wealthy. That is all.

So tell me: Why did Martha Stewart got to prison. Why did Gordon Gekko go to prison? Phil Spector?

You say there is a precedent, but selectively ignore the other wealthy celebrities who didn't get away with jackshit.

I've asked this before: How much cash would you accept to allow the man who abused your kid keep his freedom? A) Beacoup dollah? Or B) there is not enough cash in the whole wide world?

Think about it.

A stranger is just a friend I haven't met.

[SpiralEye]

You would go so far as to condemn him without considering that the allegation is false?

I have the evidence required: see QUENTIN's post. That and, y'know, his acquittal.

You have the hearsay of an ex-employee speaking to a tabloid newspaper for CA$H!


You seem to prefer the media (who have to sell their wares to the public at the expense of truth and integrity) and a bunch of money-grabbing extortionsts (cf: QUENTIN's post) version of events and not the justice system of America. This, many of you keep saying, is because there was a precedent set by O.J. Simpson. How are they the same? Because they are both rich and wealthy. That is all.

So tell me: Why did Martha Stewart got to prison. Why did Gordon Gekko go to prison? Phil Spector?

You say there is a precedent, but selectively ignore the other wealthy celebrities who didn't get away with jackshit.

I've asked this before: How much cash would you accept to allow the man who abused your kid keep his freedom? A) Beacoup dollah? Or B) there is not enough cash in the whole wide world?

Think about it.

A stranger is just a friend I haven't met.

No sir, I would not go so far to condemn him without considering that he allegation is false. It was a litmus test to gauge reactions. And without pause, you deemed him doing it just for the money.

Just pointing out that both sides of this are biased.

Fuck the establishment.

[Reigh Kaufman]

No sir, I would not go so far to condemn him without considering that he allegation is false. It was a litmus test to gauge reactions. And without pause, you deemed him doing it just for the money.

Just pointing out that both sides of this are biased.

Fuck the establishment.

Without pause? I've had over fifteen years to read up on testimony, police reports, indictments for extortion, slander, libel and perjury, et cetera.

You were "testing" reactions? Get a grip. Your post was pregnant with irony and you know it. You know whose side of the fence you are standing on but you can't validate it so you use the most jaded defence in the history of the interwebs: I was trying to highlight the hypocrisy of the post. God, what next - you gonna rickroll me?

"Without question". You must think that the rumours of paedophilia and extortion are breaking news and I am reading it off the news ticker tape as I type. Is it still the Summer of '93 where you live? Buy stocks in Yahoo!

There is bias on both sides, that is true, but a lot of the posts here posit that Michael Jackson died a paedophile simply because it is titillating and gives them a place to vent their prejudices. Let's hope that they never require a fair hearing.

Meh, what's the point in a fair hearing? Apparently it doesn't matter if you are innocent or guilty, you're still guilty.

The revolution will not be televised.

[SpiralEye]

Without pause? I've had over fifteen years to read up on testimony, police reports, indictments for extortion, slander, libel and perjury, et cetera.

You were "testing" reactions? Get a grip. Your post was pregnant with irony and you know it. You know whose side of the fence you are standing on but you can't validate it so you use the most jaded defence in the history of the interwebs: I was trying to highlight the hypocrisy of the post. God, what next - you gonna rickroll me?

"Without question". You must think that the rumours of paedophilia and extortion are breaking news and I am reading it off the news ticker tape as I type. Is it still the Summer of '93 where you live? Buy stocks in Yahoo!

There is bias on both sides, that is true, but a lot of the posts here posit that Michael Jackson died a paedophile simply because it is titillating and gives them a place to vent their prejudices. Let's hope that they never require a fair hearing.

Meh, what's the point in a fair hearing? Apparently it doesn't matter if you are innocent or guilty, you're still guilty.

The revolution will not be televised.

Yes. Without pause you condemned. That's a story from a week ago, not 1993.

Yes, I know where I stand. Yes, I know where you stand.

So fifteen years of studying the American justice system makes you more qualified to... what, dismiss testimonials of people close to the case?

"He's just doing it for the money." You might be right. Maybe not though.

"He was acquitted, so he didn't do it." You might be right. Maybe not though.

A sense of jaded irony settles over me.

Sock it to me.

[Reigh Kaufman]

Yes. Without pause you condemned. That's a story from a week ago, not 1993.

Yes, I know where I stand. Yes, I know where you stand.

So fifteen years of studying the American justice system makes you more qualified to... what, dismiss testimonials of people close to the case?

"He's just doing it for the money." You might be right. Maybe not though.

"He was acquitted, so he didn't do it." You might be right. Maybe not though.

A sense of jaded irony settles over me.

Sock it to me.

I was talking about all the stories.

As for Dwayne...know who cannot sue for slander?

Dead people.

Why come forward now?

And don't you think it says something about Mr. Singler that he would quietly observe children deeply in trouble but say nothing to the authorities? What was he waiting for - a death?

This is the horse you are backing?

And as things fell apart, nobody paid much attention.

[Tyler Durden4]

All this argument aside... the art is seperate from the artist. Christian Bale behaved like a cock on the Terminator: Salvation set, he's still a great actor. John Wayne was right wing to the point that he once said he believed in white supremacy, he's a cinematic legend whose films are screened daily the world over. I found Michael Jackson creepy, and I thought it was at least likely that he comitted crimes against children, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be remembered as a brilliant musician, it doesn't suddenly mean that Off the Wall and Thriller aren't great albums.

I agree with this. But my rant was that people didn't give him respect for the music UNTIL he died. I feel the same way with Earth Day. People wear their "Global Warming Isn't Cool" shirt as they climb into their gas-guzzling SUV's.