I Will Not Read Your Fucking Script

[Hey Man]

This is pretty funny.

We know you've been working very hard on your screenplay, but before you go looking for some professional feedback, you might keep in mind the following piece by A History of Violence screenwriter Josh Olson.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/09/i_will_not_read.php?page=1

[Frosty_86]

What a dick

[Tweek]

I can understand his frustration, at least a little.

[The Postmaster General]

I thought it was a good read, and can understand where he's coming from.

[ilovemovies]

This probably belongs more in the screenwriting/filmmaking forum.

[LordSimen]

That was awesome. Great find, sir.

[Natty]

The guy's a fucking dick.

Anyone who says "you put me in the position where if I say no I'm the badguy' is a fucking dick.

Anyone who makes himself out to be a master professional when he adapted one graphic novel is a fucking dick.

Anyone who takes the time to write a two page rant yet complains how it takes weeks to read two pages is a fucking dick.

Anyone who compares himself to Pablo Picasso is a fucking dick.

The guy's a fucking dick.

[Frosty_86]

The guy's a fucking dick.

Anyone who says "you put me in the position where if I say no I'm the badguy' is a fucking dick.

Anyone who makes himself out to be a master professional when he adapted one graphic novel is a fucking dick.

Anyone who takes the time to write a two page rant yet complains how it takes weeks to read two pages is a fucking dick.

Anyone who compares himself to Pablo Picasso is a fucking dick.

The guy's a fucking dick.

Damn, I like this side of you Natty

[Imsomuchbetter]

LOL. I can honestly say that I`ve never thought about that side of the story before. I`m usually the guy pushing screenplays on people, and I guess at times things can get out of hand. The screenplay I`m currently trying to sell, was actually picked up by a producer (mainly television, but still) a while back but I told him I wanted nothing to do with him because he didn`t have any notes for me after three weeks. Made him give the screenplay back and threatened to sue the shit out of him if he ever made a movie like it :D And this other time I called fox searchlight to ask about submission policy and ended up yelling to some guy at acquisitions about how "I am the new Stephen Spielberg". But yeah... he still sounds like a dick.

[spacemonkey]

Funny read. Dude should take a chill pill though. If you cant read the guys script all you have to do is politely decline, I dont think he will think you are an asshole if you say you cant politely.

Instead of having that attitude of "I cant read your fucking script you fucking amateur, Im an award winning screenwriter and dont have the patience or time to deal with a rookie like you so go fuck yourself!"

I agree with Natty, the guys a dick!

[silentasylum]

I hated that movie

[Heisenberg]

WhataCunt

[Cop No. 633]

I think the guy was being overly dramatic, but he did have a valid point about critiquing scripts. It's not going to endear you to many people if you give them honesty. I know from personal experience. And it's frustrating because I took the time to write a review and the writer doesn't have the decency to respond because I didn't suck their script's cock.

It happened to me two weeks ago. I got a script from an old friend I used to trade scripts with. He randomly asked me, so I read it because I had time. I didn't like it. There was a lot of problems from a cliche concept to a cliche path of self-destruction that a character takes. The main character wasn't developed enough and I could see the emotional manipulation the writer was trying to do. It needed a lot of work and I gave him my notes and what he could possibly do with it to make it better.

I read his script quickly and sent him my notes accordingly, and he still hasn't responded at all. That was two weeks ago. I don't even know if I should even email him to coax a response because I'm sure he's angry I didn't say his script was great and the drama was so gritty.

Honesty doesn't get you anywhere when you critique a bad script most of the time. Some times, it does. I learned a lot from reviews of my old scripts. I wish most other people could as well.

[ericdraven]

that guy is so fucking full of himself.

[Preston_79]

He might be a dick, but he's being honest. Am I the only one who read that and completely sympathized with him?

To make matters worse, this guy (and his girlfriend) had begged me to be honest with him. He was frustrated by the responses he'd gotten from friends, because he felt they were going easy on him, and he wanted real criticism. They never do, of course. What they want is a few tough notes to give the illusion of honesty, and then some pats on the head. What they want--always--is encouragement, even when they shouldn't get any.

So fucking true!

I have tons of respect for this guy for saying this. I won't shed a tear over the millions of shitty writers who see this and have their feeling hurt.

[The Movie Whore]

This guy is dead on. No matter what he does he is going to be perceived as the dick but it is exactly as he said that you, the person shoving the script in his face are the dick. If you are talking and he asks for a copy, that is a different situation. He liked what you had to say and was interested enough based on your discussion to want to read the script.

If you look at the two piles of scripts he already has to read why should he read your fucking script.

I have a couple close friends who are writers and I would have to day the last thing I would want to do is throw a script at them becasue I know they would be honest and I don't want to put them into that kind of situation. It is a little thing called courtesy. Ity is not all about you and your dreams it is about making your dreams happen the right way without shitting on everyone to make it happen.

[Rated R]

His points are valid but it would all be moot if the script he was handed was a masterpiece. The rant wouldn't have existed and a movie would likely be getting made. I understand that there are a lot of wannabe writers with thin skins who can't take the honest criticism they say they desire.

But there are also some fine amateur writers who want to break into the craft but can't because of a catch-22. To get work as a writer you have to have an agent and to get an agent you need to have proven yourself as a writer. That is definitely an oversimplification and not always true (you can write and shoot your own indie for instance and it may or may not get noticed).

The industry is nearly impossible to get into on the level we all fantasize about like writing or directing or acting. It's a shame because there's a lot of untapped potential out there slogging away at call centres trying to put the finishing touches of a manuscript.

Olson's assumption that a year-long writing odyssey that becomes a mediocre or terrible manuscript is a waste of time is off base. If the writer can tough it out, it's worth trying again and one of the best ways to learn -- especially as a writer -- is through failure. His points make sense but they are also shortsighted.

I'm not saying Olson is the man standing in the way of aspiring writers getting published, no it's just an insanely difficult system to break into. Look at novelist John Kennedy Toole. He wrote what would become a Pulitzer Prize winning novel called Confederacy of Dunces. He killed himself when he couldn't get it published. Eventually it was published posthumously and received the top writing prize in the nation, if not the world. So that's another facet. While Olson may see trash, someone else may see a marketable script...or it really was absolute trash and in that case the writer needs to hone his/her skills and try again.

[Smiert Spionam]

I came into this thread expecting to hate this guy. And even though yes, he is sortof a dick, he has some valid points, and after I read this, I had somewhat of a revelation, as I'm in a similar position in that I sent one of my scripts to a "working professional" several months ago and have yet to get a response (guess he thinks it sucks, but hey, he'll never talk me out of making it :cool:). An insightful and amusing read.











But he's still kindof a dick. :D

[spacemonkey]

Heres the thing though, I also think the guy asking for a critique of his script should be open to it. I mean, if the pro reads it and thinks its shit, you gotta take it like a man, and learn from what the pro has to say.

[echo_bravo]

He's an admirable dick.;)

Flat out awesome rant.

[Hey Man]

Who says his opinion is right? Even if he doesn't like the script and tells you so - it doesn't mean you should quit writing or that the script is indeed bad. You could send your script to 10 different so called professional writers like this jagoff and get 10 different opinions. You need to get more than one professional opinion.

[jackson13]

Fine. Then I wont watch your fucking movie.

[LordSimen]

I'd have to say that a lot of you are actually proving his point, but whatever. That article was awesome. :D

[Smiert Spionam]

Who says his opinion is right? Even if he doesn't like the script and tells you so - it doesn't mean you should quit writing or that the script is indeed bad. You could send your script to 10 different so called professional writers like this jagoff and get 10 different opinions. You need to get more than one professional opinion.

No doubt. I'm well aware and that's exactly what I plan to do. But like I said, this was just insightful.

[Hey Man]

I'd have to say that a lot of you are actually proving his point, but whatever. That article was awesome. :D

How is that exactly? There are professional people in the film industry, who like to help out whenever they can and give you the time of day - because I assume they remember when they were first starting out. That has been my experience anyway.

[LordSimen]

How is that exactly? There are professional people in the film industry, who like to help out whenever they can and give you the time of day - because I assume they remember when they were first starting out. That has been my experience anyway.

No, I mean the whole "that guy is a dick" thing just cause he won't read your shit.

[Servo]

He should just accept being called a dick. If that kid was a real writer, once he matures he'd be able to look back and be like "I'm so glad Josh Olson was a dick to me."

At my best friend's wedding, the pastor found out I work in LA so we chatted about "the biz." Apparently his brother wrote the screenplay for that Clint Eastwood movie "A Perfect World" or something. I held my tongue. I knew this guy was expecting me to ask for a hook-up, and by this time I had just gotten sick of all the false starts and shitty connections so I just listened to him talk and swapped stories.

He started telling me stories of people that did ask him for a hook-up for a meeting or advice or whatever, and when he did get them in contact the guy tells them the same thing: "I can't tell you, you have to make your own way." Then the pastor gave me an analogy about being the new kid in town and wanting to play football with the local kids. It's a Texan thing. :)

I hope he can become more comfortable with being labeled a dick. Professional advice from someone like Josh Olson about asking people to read your script is more valuable then a critique of a two page synopsis.

[echo_bravo]

His Picasso story/comparison made me roll my eyes but I do see where he is coming from.

It would be like me asking Phil Jackson (head coach of the LA Lakers) if he could watch me shoot some hoops to see if I have what it takes to play in the NBA. Just sorta ridiculous.

[Smiert Spionam]

No, I mean the whole "that guy is a dick" thing just cause he won't read your shit.

What the fuck are you even talking about? We're all completely impartial parties reacting to a story that he has told. How are we proving his point by saying that, in our opinions, despite being in the right regarding the situation, he's still a dick for being a little drama queen and writing a two page rant about it as if he's the only fucking guy in Hollywood who gets asked to read amateur screenplays? :rolleyes:

[LordSimen]

What the fuck are you even talking about? We're all completely impartial parties reacting to a story that he has told. How are we proving his point by saying that, in our opinions, despite being in the right regarding the situation, is a dick for being a little drama queen and writing a rant about it as if he's the only fucking guy in Hollywood who gets asked to read amateur screenplays? :rolleyes:

Because you're calling him a dick for not reading random people's screenplays. What part of that did you not understand?

[Hey Man]

His Picasso story/comparison made me roll my eyes but I do see where he is coming from.

It would be like me asking Phil Jackson (head coach of the LA Lakers) if he could watch me shoot some hoops to see if I have what it takes to play in the NBA. Just sorta ridiculous.

If you knew Phil Jackson - why not? Look, many a deal has been put together based on who those people knew. Just because this cocksucker won't read your screenplay - doesn't mean that you can't find someone who will.

[Smiert Spionam]

Because you're calling him a dick for not reading random people's screenplays. What part of that did you not understand?

Can you NOT fucking read? I said I agreed with his point regarding his situation, but he's still a dick for complaining like a little bitch about it as if he's the only screenwriter in the industry who goes through this.

What part of that do YOU not understand?

Fuckin' Christ...

[Cop No. 633]

Huh? He just said he's calling him a dick for ranting about it. Not because he said no. I'm sure lots of screenwriters get asked to read some amateur script and they mostly say no. How many more articles have you read about the same subject?

Smiert is saying he's a dick (or for a better term, a whining baby) for acting like it's that big of a deal, which it isn't. He could just say no.

Here is a thoughtful rebuttal by another professional screenwriter that takes the opposite stance: http://www.gointothestory.com/2009/09/i-will-not-read-your-fucking-script.html

I liked that one as well.

[LordSimen]

Can you NOT fucking read? I said I agreed with his point regarding his situation, but he's still a dick for complaining like a little bitch about it as if he's the only screenwriter in the industry who goes through this.

What part of that do YOU not understand?

Fuckin' Christ...

:rolleyes:

Sounds like the same thing to me.

[Smiert Spionam]

:rolleyes:

Sounds like the same thing to me.

That's because you can't read.

[LordSimen]

Whatever, you say, sir. I can read just fine, thank you. :D

[Smiert Spionam]

Whatever, you say, sir. I can read just fine, thank you. :D

Anyone here with eyes sees that you cannot, but as long as you're content being your smug ol' self, I guess that's all that matters.

[Smarmy Douche]

I, for one, am looking forward to the masterpiece that is Bride of Demon Dead - Part II.

[LordSimen]

Someone who tells others they can't read has no place calling aforementioned others smug. But I suppose that's the kind of thing I should expect! After all, apparently you feel this man is a dick for writing down his frustrations (what's his profession, again? Was it a writer? Go figure.) yet spends time on a board with a section dedicated to that very same concept. But I suppose all us schmoes are exempt from being dicks. After all, why should we expect a professional writer to behave exactly like us- They're god's, afterall, they must be beyond us!

[Cop No. 633]

http://myiq2xu.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/strawman.jpg

[Smiert Spionam]

I, for one, am looking forward to the masterpiece that is Bride of Demon Dead - Part II.

http://myiq2xu.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/strawman.jpg

Hahahahahahahaha :D

[The Postmaster General]

The correct term is contextually challenged.


Huh? He just said he's calling him a dick for ranting about it. Not because he said no. I'm sure lots of screenwriters get asked to read some amateur script and they mostly say no. How many more articles have you read about the same subject?

Smiert is saying he's a dick (or for a better term, a whining baby) for acting like it's that big of a deal, which it isn't. He could just say no.

Here is a thoughtful rebuttal by another professional screenwriter that takes the opposite stance: http://www.gointothestory.com/2009/09/i-will-not-read-your-fucking-script.html

I liked that one as well.


That's a good read as well, and I can understand where he's coming from.

[Smiert Spionam]

Here is a thoughtful rebuttal by another professional screenwriter that takes the opposite stance: http://www.gointothestory.com/2009/09/i-will-not-read-your-fucking-script.html

I liked that one as well.

Meyers definitely seems like the cooler guy on the subject, because, unlike Olson, he's been in the biz 20+ years and, as a result, knows how to be an encouraging adult about the situation and not an arrogant prick...

[The Postmaster General]

Someone who tells others they can't read has no place calling aforementioned others smug. But I suppose that's the kind of thing I should expect! After all, apparently you feel this man is a dick for writing down his frustrations (what's his profession, again? Was it a writer? Go figure.) yet spends time on a board with a section dedicated to that very same concept. But I suppose all us schmoes are exempt from being dicks. After all, why should we expect a professional writer to behave exactly like us- They're god's, afterall, they must be beyond us!

In all fairness, I don't think anyone has written a rant going on and on saying most of the screenplays and shorts they find on these forums are shitty. That seems to be kind of the ticker here - the guy can't leave it alone and just say, "hey I'm not working. don't make me work!" He goes on and on tearing apart the screenplay of someone who was apparently an acquaintance to the point where it sounds less like criticism and more like being a dick.

[spacemonkey]

Because you're calling him a dick for not reading random people's screenplays. What part of that did you not understand?

Actually, Im calling him a dick because of his attitude on the article. He thinks he is so high and mighty cause his up in hollywood writing scripts and what have you, doesnt he remember he once had humble beginnings and that he once had to probably beg somebody to read his first script? That somebody had to give him a chance as well?

All Im saying is the guy needs to get of his hi-horse, if you cant read the script, then dont. Politely decline.

Or, if you read the guys script, and you see he needs to work on his craft, point out his mistakes, help him out. But this whole bullshit of "I aint got time to do this for this amateur" is what I hate about that article. Sure you got time man, dont give me that bull. You had the time to read the script, take the time to help the guy out or point him in the right direction. You could be a positive thing in the guys life, instead of a negative.

[someguy]

Maybe we can make this clearer to Simen if it's broken down in the most basic terms possible.

Is he a dick because he won't read people's scripts? NO

Is he a dick because his tantrum about the issue came across as smug and self-serving? YES

Not the same thing.

[Hey Man]

Actually, Im calling him a dick because of his attitude on the article. He thinks he is so high and mighty cause his up in hollywood writing scripts and what have you, doesnt he remember he once had humble beginnings and that he once had to probably beg somebody to read his first script? That somebody had to give him a chance as well?

All Im saying is the guy needs to get of his hi-horse, if you cant read the script, then dont. Politely decline.

Or, if you read the guys script, and you see he needs to work on his craft, point out his mistakes, help him out. But this whole bullshit of "I aint got time to do this for this amateur" is what I hate about that article. Sure you got time man, dont give me that bull. You had the time to read the script, take the time to help the guy out or point him in the right direction. You could be a positive thing in the guys life, instead of a negative.

I agree completely. It's not hard to politely decline - it's happened to me and I prefer that as opposed to waiting months for fucking notes. Also he would lying his ass off if he suggested that no one helped him out or read his screenplays when he was first starting out. This is simply a case of someone who made it and who has ultimately being corrupted because of it.

"No man is really changed by success. What happens is that success works on the man's personality like a truth drug, bringing him out of the closet and revealing...what was always inside his head" - Albert Goldman

He was always a dick.

[spacemonkey]

What I found weird about the rant is that he says he has no time to read or comment, but then writes that whole article pointing out many of the things the guy did wrong in it. The time he spent writing that article, could have been the same time he could have spent helping the guy out giving him a couple of pointers, which he gave anyways in the article, but in a mean spirited way.

[Imsomuchbetter]

What I found weird about the rant is that he says he has no time to read or comment, but then writes that whole article pointing out many of the things the guy did wrong in it. The time he spent writing that article, could have been the same time he could have spent helping the guy out giving him a couple of pointers, which he gave anyways in the article, but in a mean spirited way.

True, but if he did that we wouldn`t know how edgy and cool he is :rolleyes:

[Heisenberg]

Funny. While I read LordSimens comments, "Spoilin' for a Fight" by ACDC was playing. No joke.

[APzombie]

No offense, but i wouldn't want the dude who wrote and directed the piece of shit Instinct to Kill to come anywhere near my script.

The screenplay for History was alright, it's the preformances and direction that made it a great film though.

[Preston_79]

According to this guy he did end up giving the script an honest critique which wasn't so flattering and led to the inevitable falling out. He doesn't come off as all that bad to me when after all he did read the assholes script. We don't know how he started of in Hollywood, who helped him become successful. He complains about people wasting his time, but wrote a two page rant, wow! It probably took him all of an hour. He's ranting here folks, and in person could be a very gracious, understanding, and helpful person. He just doesn't want to read your fucking script, because he knows exactly what will happen next.

A. The scripts are typically amateur and crap
B. It distracts him from more important work
C. He spends hours drafting and redrafting an honest critique
D. He gets almost no response to his critique and has a falling out with an acquaintance.

I feel for him. I wouldn't make any assumptions about his character from one rant, and it's just that, a rant. When people write these things emotions are usually running high.

[Hey Man]

According to this guy he did end up giving the script an honest critique which wasn't so flattering and led to the inevitable falling out. He doesn't come off as all that bad to me when after all he did read the assholes script. We don't know how he started of in Hollywood, who helped him become successful. He complains about people wasting his time, but wrote a two page rant, wow! It probably took him all of an hour. He's ranting here folks, and in person could be a very gracious, understanding, and helpful person. He just doesn't want to read your fucking script, because he knows exactly what will happen next.

A. The scripts are typically amateur and crap
B. It distracts him from more important work
C. He spends hours drafting and redrafting an honest critique
D. He gets almost no response to his critique and has a falling out with an acquaintance.

I feel for him. I wouldn't make any assumptions about his character from one rant, and it's just that, a rant. When people write these things emotions are usually running high.

All I can say is - boo hoo. If he truly thinks that this is a burden in life, he can fuck himself.

[LordSimen]

According to this guy he did end up giving the script an honest critique which wasn't so flattering and led to the inevitable falling out. He doesn't come off as all that bad to me when after all he did read the assholes script. We don't know how he started of in Hollywood, who helped him become successful. He complains about people wasting his time, but wrote a two page rant, wow! It probably took him all of an hour. He's ranting here folks, and in person could be a very gracious, understanding, and helpful person. He just doesn't want to read your fucking script, because he knows exactly what will happen next.

A. The scripts are typically amateur and crap
B. It distracts him from more important work
C. He spends hours drafting and redrafting an honest critique
D. He gets almost no response to his critique and has a falling out with an acquaintance.

I feel for him. I wouldn't make any assumptions about his character from one rant, and it's just that, a rant. When people write these things emotions are usually running high.

Exactly. 100% agreed. It's like people here forget that they have a rant section too where they sometimes come off the same god damn way this guy does. :cool:

[Hey Man]

Exactly. 100% agreed. It's like people here forget that they have a rant section too where they sometimes come off the same god damn way this guy does. :cool:

The difference is that he is not using some anonymous user name on a selected site that few will see. He posted his fuck off rant using his real name and everyone in Hollywood is going to know about it sooner or later as it has already been linked to hundreds of other sites. Big difference between what he did and my rant about women not supporting their men a while back.

[The Postmaster General]

Yeah, that "it's just like the Joblo rant forum" is so wrong on so many levels.

No rants are about how fucking terrible someone think other schmoes videos and scripts are. Schmoes also typically rant about people more popular than they are, not nobodies or someone no one has ever encountered, and anytime someone does do that others call them out. (eg, 11 year old cousins)

THE MAIN DIFFERENCE though is that this is a message board, and if anyone rants, they are allowing others to respond, disagree with them, and they are opening themselves for discussion. They aren't doing so under the guise that their word is gold and the final say on the matter.


Anyway, all I really wanted to do was post this helpful flowchart (see attachment):

[LordSimen]

No rants are about how fucking terrible someone think other schmoes videos and scripts are. Schmoes also typically rant about people more popular than they are, not nobodies or someone no one has ever encountered, and anytime someone does do that others call them out. (eg, 11 year old cousins)

Wait, so all those rants of people complaining that "oh no, the average dude that goes to this movie store I work at is a moron," aren't exactly like this? :rolleyes: Yeah. I call bullshit on this on, Bubba.


THE MAIN DIFFERENCE though is that this is a message board, and if anyone rants, they are allowing others to respond, disagree with them, and they are opening themselves for discussion. They aren't doing so under the guise that their word is gold and the final say on the matter.



There's a freakin' comment section on that damn site he wrote on, so don't pretend like people can't respond.

NEWSFLASH: ON THE TOPIC OF WHETHER OR NOT HE'LL READ YOUR SCRIPT, HIS WORD IS GOLD AND HE DOES HAVE THE FINAL SAY ON THE MATTER.

[The Postmaster General]

Wait, so all those rants of people complaining that "oh no, the average dude that goes to this movie store I work at is a moron," aren't exactly like this? :rolleyes: Yeah. I call bullshit on this on, Bubba.


Because not only are they talking about people of the same social stature as them, but also archetypical character types that most people have encountered at some point. This guy is an Academy Award nominated Hollywood script writer complaining about a nobody. If you don't see the difference, and think he's just some guy like you, I'm calling you delusional.

[LordSimen]

Because not only are they talking about people of the same social stature as them, but also archetypical character types that most people have encountered at some point. This guy is an Academy Award nominated Hollywood script writer complaining about a nobody. If you don't see the difference, and think he's just some guy like you, I'm calling you delusional.

Except they're talking about people as if they WEREN'T on the same social stature as them, and are beneath them for not knowing the difference between Tarantino presents and a Tarantino film and the like. This guy is a professional complaining about assholes. That's it. The same god damn thing we all do in that rant section every day and just because he's a professional writer doesn't somehow make him disallowed to rant about his frustrations in dealing with people.

[Hey Man]

Wait, so all those rants of people complaining that "oh no, the average dude that goes to this movie store I work at is a moron," aren't exactly like this? :rolleyes: Yeah. I call bullshit on this on, Bubba.



There's a freakin' comment section on that damn site he wrote on, so don't pretend like people can't respond.

NEWSFLASH: ON THE TOPIC OF WHETHER OR NOT HE'LL READ YOUR SCRIPT, HIS WORD IS GOLD AND HE DOES HAVE THE FINAL SAY ON THE MATTER.

The difference is - if someone rants here about someone else in the outside world (not another schmo), they will never know about it. But how many people who have read Olson's rant are saying, he's talking about me? You don't think he's pissed some people off or offended anyone personally?

[LordSimen]

The difference is - if someone rants here about someone else in the outside world (not another schmo), they will never know about it. But how many people who have read Olson's rant are saying, he's talking about me? You don't think he's pissed some people off or offended anyone personally?

What does that have to do with anything? Who cares who he pissed off with that, those dickwads pissed him off first. Their anger is only what they deserve.

[The Postmaster General]

Except they're talking about people as if they WEREN'T on the same social stature as them, and are beneath them for not knowing the difference between Tarantino presents and a Tarantino film and the like. This guy is a professional complaining about assholes. That's it. The same god damn thing we all do in that rant section every day and just because he's a professional writer doesn't somehow make him disallowed to rant about his frustrations in dealing with people.


You think someone saying they work at a video store is them saying they are of higher social stature than someone else? What? You don't seem to understand the meaning of the term "social stature."

Being of higher social stature isn't one person saying someone is a moron, it actually has a definition meaning someone who is more popular, or has a job that is well-respected. Someone talking down to someone else has nothing to do with social stature.

It doesn't even matter anyway, because like I said, people posting in the rant section here are often called out and argued against. The difference is that they aren't of such a high social status that they have you there telling them they are wrong for calling bullshit on the rant. In fact, I seem to remember you disagreeing with someone ranting about applause in theater, and no one spent countless posts arguing with you.

[LordSimen]

You think someone saying they work at a video store is them saying they are of higher social stature than someone else? What?

Yes. That's EXACTLY what they're doing when they rant about stuff like that.


Social stature isn't one person saying someone is a moron, it actually has a definition meaning someone who is more popular, or has a job that is well-respected.


Yeah, these people like to pretend they're more popular or much more well respected because they know more about Fellini than average dude on the street.



It doesn't even matter anyway, because like I said, people posting in the rant section here are often called out and argued against. The difference is that they aren't of such a high social status that they have you there telling them they are wrong for calling bullshit on the rant. In fact, I seem to remember you disagreeing with someone ranting about applause in theater, and no one spent countless posts arguing with you.

Yeah, except the difference is- You guys don't call anyone dicks in those rant threads for that, but you'll call this guy a dick. You're all posing this stupid double standard that I find ridiculous. Hypocritical.

[Smarmy Douche]

.http://www.gamerdna.com/uimage/vYlbxJG/large/pong-gif.gif

[The Postmaster General]

Yes. That's EXACTLY what they're doing when they rant about stuff like that.

No, that's not what they are doing. They are talking shit about them. There's a big difference. I talk shit about our neighbors who let their 2 year old run around unsupervised. That doesn't mean I am saying I have "honor and prestige attached to my position in society." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_status

In fact, a video store clerk could be talking about a doctor who is a moron choosing movies, and they would be talking shit about someone of HIGHER social status than them.

This writer spent half his damn rant talking about his achievements pointing toward having a high social stature, then the other half ripping on someone he considers of low social stature. That's not some misinterpretation like you are making here, and holding on to like a dildo at a lesbian gangbang, he's flat out and transparently doing exactly that.

You are making it apparent that you don't understand the meaning of the term "social stature". It's amazing you've called "bullshit" on me, but I suppose by your definition, you did that because you think you're of higher social stature.

Yeah, these people like to pretend they're more popular or much more well respected because they know more about Fellini than average dude on the street.

No, they are saying they know more about movies, they aren't saying they are more respected by society. They are saying they get frustrated talking to people like this. Again, you aren't understanding the meaning of the term "social stature." Even more so, most people acknowledge not knowing about Felini is the norm in society, adding to them recognizing that they aren't gaining social stature by knowing his movies.

And again-again, there have been many instances where schmoes have said to "chill out" and often many people will say that not everyone needs to know a lot about movies. Even Joblo has posted in a rant before saying he only saw 2001 recently and people need to stop looking at it that way.

Yeah, except the difference is- You guys don't call anyone dicks in those rant threads for that, but you'll call this guy a dick. You're all posing this stupid double standard that I find ridiculous. Hypocritical.

No what the fuck are you talking about. First off, "you guys?" Don't you mean "us?" You may as well have said that because I don't think you'd find a rant written by me that's as you are describing.

Secondly - really, what the fuck are you talking about? People here call famous females "whores", "bitches", "cunts" - they call famous men "assholes", "fuckheads" -- there have even been times where people have called for the killing of some famous people. So you are saying there's a double standard because they call some famous writer a "dick"? No, they are following the set standards, and if anything your boy got off pretty easily.

Of course, you don't seem to have too much of a problem with all the other people being called much worse names, but that's probably because Britney Spears hasn't worked with the guy in your avatar.

[Heisenberg]

When people in the Rant section complain about other people, it's usually because that person did/said something very stupid. It's got absolutely nothing to do with thinking they are of a higher stature that that person. It is only to let out their anger.

AND it has nothing in common with this situation at all. This guy is a successful screen writer (wrote ONE decent thing) who is putting down the poor souls that asked for his advice, there is no need to be such a wanker about the situation. A polite "I'm sorry but I'm very busy at the moment" would be enough. This guy need to come back down to earth, he was in their position at one time in his life. Now he has the taste of success, he forgets where he came from. He is a fucktard. End.

[LordSimen]

No, that's not what they are doing. They are talking shit about them. There's a big difference. I talk shit about our neighbors who let their 2 year old run around unsupervised. That doesn't mean I am saying I have "honor and prestige attached to my position in society." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_status

In fact, a video store clerk could be talking about a doctor who is a moron choosing movies, and they would be talking shit about someone of HIGHER social status than them.

This writer spent half his damn rant talking about his achievements pointing toward having a high social stature, then the other half ripping on someone he considers of low social stature. That's not some misinterpretation like you are making here, and holding on to like a dildo at a lesbian gangbang, he's flat out and transparently doing exactly that.

You are making it apparent that you don't understand the meaning of the term "social stature". It's amazing you've called "bullshit" on me, but I suppose by your definition, you did that because you think you're of higher social stature.


I've already explained that these people like to display that they have a "more honor or prestige in society because of their movie knowledge and the dumb, average joe has none and is therefore beneath them" attitude. Why I must explain it twice, is beyond me.


No, they are saying they know more about movies, they aren't saying they are more respected by society. They are saying they get frustrated talking to people like this. Again, you aren't understanding the meaning of the term "social stature." Even more so, most people acknowledge not knowing about Felini is the norm in society, adding to them recognizing that they aren't gaining social stature by knowing his movies.


Exactly why this is hypocritical.


And again-again, there have been many instances where schmoes have said to "chill out" and often many people will say that not everyone needs to know a lot about movies. Even Joblo has posted in a rant before saying he only saw 2001 recently and people need to stop looking at it that way.

Thank you for proving my point.

No what the fuck are you talking about. First off, "you guys?" Don't you mean "us?" You may as well have said that because I don't think you'd find a rant written by me that's as you are describing.

Did I say you? No? Thank you.

Secondly - really, what the fuck are you talking about? People here call famous females "whores", "bitches", "cunts" - they call famous men "assholes", "fuckheads" -- there have even been times where people have called for the killing of some famous people. So you are saying there's a double standard because they call some famous writer a "dick"? No, they are following the set standards, and if anything your boy got off pretty easily.

They call them fuckheads for things they don't do themselves- Here, this forum is calling this person dicks for something THEY partake in every freakin' day they post on this forum.


AND it has nothing in common with this situation at all. This guy is a successful screen writer (wrote ONE decent thing) who is putting down the poor souls that asked for his advice, there is no need to be such a wanker about the situation. A polite "I'm sorry but I'm very busy at the moment" would be enough. This guy need to come back down to earth, he was in their position at one time in his life. Now he has the taste of success, he forgets where he came from. He is a fucktard. End.

It has EVERYTHING to do this situation. I must ask, did you actually read his rant? Because his rant was clearly about his frustration with assholes who put him in a lose-lose situation and expect they're owed something from him that they're not. That's hardly putting down a poor soul, that's putting down the true dicks of the whole situation.

[BadCoverVersion]

He's a dick because he's a grown adult who is seemingly unable to politely decline an innocent request. Although if he did the logical, sensible thing I imagine he'd have fuck all else to bitch and whine about.

It was an entertaining read but it was also unnecessarily cruel and sanctimonious.

[LordSimen]

http://ishitnoise.com/wiki/images/9/99/ExplodingHead.GIF

Fuck it. It's clear you're all obsessed with continuing the hypocrisy of this thread and I have no desire to continue to partake in it. I'm done.

[The Postmaster General]

I've already explained that these people like to display that they have a "more honor or prestige in society because of their movie knowledge and the dumb, average joe has none and is therefore beneath them" attitude. Why I must explain it twice, is beyond me.

They are on a movie message board, not the Village Voice. They don't spend a bunch of time listing their accomplishments and talking about their stature in society.

The reason you must explain it twice is because you didn't get it the first time. Show me one single post where someone claims to have more honor or prestige -- I'm not talking about bitching about people, I'm talking about them boasting about their accomplishments and talking about how respected they are. Talking down about someone isn't the same thing as boasting you are of high social standard, and it sure as shit doesn't make one of high social standard.


Exactly why this is hypocritical.
Thank you for proving my point.

You may have well said, "Shoobie doo wop" because it would have made as much sense. The point being made is that people get guff for only talking down about others on these boards, and in this thread, the writer is being given guff for talking down about others on these boards. Since he's a famous person, he's also getting called names, just like all the other celebs people think are acting as they are describing.


Did I say you? No? Thank you

Are you fucking kidding. Yeah, you said, "you guys." How much simpler could that be? I even quoted you saying "you guys." I'm sorry if I understand English and know that when someone says you they are referring to me. I wish to God I spoke this special version of the language that you seem to speak where saying you guys to someone means you aren't referring to them, and social stature can be claimed by those who say they work at a video store and got frustrated with a customer. It must be a magical way to live.

They call them fuckheads for things they don't do themselves- Here, this forum is calling this person dicks for something THEY partake in every freakin' day they post on this forum.

If you want to get technical, we could go through the thread and find each person who called this guy a dick and see if they actually have posted any of these rants like you are describing, but oh no, that would be overkill at this point.

Okay, Simen, you say people on message boards are exactly like famous Hollywood screenwriters! If you feel comfortable believing that, I feel comfortable knowing you believe that. You would in no way be disappointing me.

[Hey Man]

What does that have to do with anything? Who cares who he pissed off with that, those dickwads pissed him off first. Their anger is only what they deserve.

Um, so let me get this straight - you think someone's an asshole because they ask someone in the film business that they know to read their script? Knowing someone in the industry has helped many succeed themselves.

[The Postmaster General]

Fuck it. It's clear you're all obsessed with continuing the hypocrisy of this thread and I have no desire to continue to partake in it. I'm done.


Well, following the flow chart, you have shown me that there is no point in discussing why I disagree with you.

[Rated R]

This is insane. Classic Simen flip out thread. I'd say not to take things so personal but that wouldn't help. This is just a cyclical meandering rant now that has very little chance of progressing. So what if you think he's a dick or not? I can understand both sides on this. The column was tactless but honest. Does that mean humble? No, he was very (as BCV put it) sanctimonious.

Anyway, carry on, I'll just sit back and enjoy the fireworks.

[The Heart Collector]

lol

[The Heart Collector]

this is what you guys get for giving him a 2nd chance

[Heisenberg]

It has EVERYTHING to do this situation. I must ask, did you actually read his rant? Because his rant was clearly about his frustration with assholes who put him in a lose-lose situation and expect they're owed something from him that they're not. That's hardly putting down a poor soul, that's putting down the true dicks of the whole situation.

So a guy innocently asks a OSCAR NOMINATED SCREENWRITER for an opinion on his script. Whooa this guy is a 'true dick'...

It isn't a lose-lose situation, wtf are you on man? He can easily say no in a polite fashion, and explain that he has alot on his plate. He doesn't have to write up a 2 page rant on his annoyance of this, and in the process act like a fat child.

LordSimen, you have NO argument here. It's unfortunate that you decided to play the 'that guy' role YET AGAIN. I don't know how you get away with it. You were given a second chance in this place ( a rare thing) and all you have done is go back to your 'Troll' ways . I can count the number of times you have Hijacked a thread on both my fingers and toes three times over, maybe more. You create arguments out of nothing.

[Reigh Kaufman]

this is what you guys get for giving him a 2nd chance

There is also no point in blocking him because everyone has no choice but to quote his posts. I still keep having to make my way through the derailed threads, blocked or not.

Here is my thoughts: I hate people who step off the boat and chuck rocks at those standing behind them.

He's a big, purple-veined DICK throwing rocks at the people stepping off the boat.

Yeah.

Now give me that goddamn flow chart so I can see how to make this stop.

[Rated R]

this is what you guys get for giving him a 2nd chance

I don't get out much, I need this kind of entertainment!

[Preston_79]

He's a dick because he's a grown adult who is seemingly unable to politely decline an innocent request. Although if he did the logical, sensible thing I imagine he'd have fuck all else to bitch and whine about.

It was an entertaining read but it was also unnecessarily cruel and sanctimonious.

Instead he politely accepted the script, despite previous bad experiences in doing so. He even spent the time giving a well thought out critique knowing there was a good chance the recipient of the critique wouldn't appreciate it because it was honest. Mind you that's what the person wanted, honesty.

The guy even explains how hard it is to make an honest critique without hurting the persons feeling so he rewrites his critique a few times so it's just right.

Does this sound like a bad person yet?

The scripts author hates the critique to the point he, without seeking any further explanation, severs the relationship. If he had responded with appreciation and gratitude for the critique, regardless if he liked it or not the rant would not exist.

How dare he rant? What about this guys feelings? After all, they knew each other.

To answer that, they're not friends anymore on account of the script writer being a bitch and ending it, so to hell with how he feels now. That time has passed.

I say this guy has more balls than people who rant anonymously. Some of you act like this man never spent time doing the critique, that he just went straight in to ranting about what a shit head the author of the script was. The man fucking tried his best and hoped there was a small chance the author of this script would be different. Maybe if he writes an honest review that's negative he won't get kicked in the balls in return. Low and behold it happens again, a swift kick in the nuts.

I know..I know...this is a waste of my time. I have a lawn to mow.

[The Postmaster General]

Instead he politely accepted the script, despite previous bad experiences in doing so. He even spent the time giving a well thought out critique knowing there was a good chance the recipient of the critique wouldn't appreciate it because it was honest. Mind you that's what the person wanted, honesty.

The guy even explains how hard it is to make an honest critique without hurting the persons feeling so he rewrites his critique a few times so it's just right.

Does this sound like a bad person yet?

The scripts author hates the critique to the point he, without seeking any further explanation, severs the relationship. If he had responded with appreciation and gratitude for the critique, regardless if he liked it or not the rant would not exist.

How dare he rant? What about this guys feelings? After all, they knew each other.

To answer that, they're not friends anymore on account of the script writer being a bitch and ending it, so to hell with how he feels now. That time has passed.

I say this guy has more balls than people who rant anonymously. Some of you act like this man never spent time doing the critique, that he just went straight in to ranting about what a shit head the author of the script was. The man fucking tried his best and hoped there was a small chance the author of this script would be different. Maybe if he writes an honest review that's negative he won't get kicked in the balls in return. Low and behold it happens again, a swift kick in the nuts.

I know..I know...this is a waste of my time. I have a lawn to mow.



Preston_79 - You leaving the part out where he goes on and on and boasts about his accomplishments, his initial comparison to anyone who hands him scripts being worthy of washing his car, and a lot more, including saying the guy has no business writing. He does acknowledge that it's hard to tell someone this kind of stuff, but at the same time appears to be fascinated with it, and comes off more like a sadist than some poor soul that has to break news to someone. I mean, with all his posturing about how hard it is to do what he had to do, he admits to writing something like a page of criticisms on one paragraph. That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't like what they are doing. How many times has a teacher given you an assignment, it was something you hated doing, and even more so after doing it, but found yourself unable to stop?

I was one of the people who got where he's coming from, but whether he has a good point about it or not, he came off to a lot of people like a dick. It's good enough that he ripped this dude a new asshole with his script review, he didn't need to go behind a national publication to make sure the dagger was wedged right enough in the heart. That's just overkill. The dude asked him for a script review, not to determine whether or not he should even be writing to begin with.

Whether or not people believe him to be an actual dick 24/7, that's neither here nor there, but people have given a lot of reasons why it sounded dickish to them.

[Smiert Spionam]

Can we all just take a vote to have LordSimen banned completely?

Just askin'...

[Preston_79]

Preston_79 - You leaving the part out where he goes on and on and boasts about his accomplishments, his initial comparison to anyone who hands him scripts being worthy of washing his car, and a lot more, including saying the guy has no business writing. He does acknowledge that it's hard to tell someone this kind of stuff, but at the same time appears to be fascinated with it, and comes off more like a sadist than some poor soul that has to break news to someone. I mean, with all his posturing about how hard it is to do what he had to do, he admits to writing something like a page of criticisms on one paragraph. That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't like what they are doing. How many times has a teacher given you an assignment, it was something you hated doing, and even more so after doing it, but found yourself unable to stop?

I was one of the people who got where he's coming from, but whether he has a good point about it or not, he came off to a lot of people like a dick. It's good enough that he ripped this dude a new asshole with his script review, he didn't need to go behind a national publication to make sure the dagger was wedged right enough in the heart. That's just overkill. The dude asked him for a script review, not to determine whether or not he should even be writing to begin with.

Whether or not people believe him to be an actual dick 24/7, that's neither here nor there, but people have given a lot of reasons why it sounded dickish to them.

Aight, I see what you're saying. What you say makes sense. *Shakes head in agreement* He did come off a bit full of himself.

[The Postmaster General]

Aight, I see what you're saying. What you say makes sense. *Shakes head in agreement* He did come off a bit full of himself.

Thanks. I really do see where he is coming from, and agree with him to some extent. A good example is the schmoe QUENTIN - his user name has been like that for almost a decade, and obviously he respects Tarantino. When he was part of that Q & A for Inglourious Bastards, he had a chance to pass off any of the scripts he's ever worked on or any treatments he has to Tarantino or Eli Roth - and this was at a publicity event in which these guys were asking fans to ask of them things. QUE didn't do that though, he was cool and didn't put them on the spot.

I think it's disrespectful myself, because in a lot of ways its more about people trying to get an easy in to the biz than about respecting the writer. To whats-his-nuts, he probably just feels like this wannabe professional writer would be well enough handing his script off to anyone in Hollywood. It's like what if you were a proctologist, and just hanging out at a party and some friend of a friend came up to you and was like, "Hey, I'm Martha's friend. We're dating. Would you mind looking inside my rectum, it's been itching like crazy!"

You know... not cool.

Still though, the guy is acting like a jerk in his reactions to it. He even says so himself - that it's a no win situation for him, because either way he comes off as a jerk. Well, he proved his point very well, and personally I don't think he cares as much as some people around here would like you to believe. I'm being VEERRRYYY loose when I say 'some people'.

[Hey Man]

Thanks. I really do see where he is coming from, and agree with him to some extent. A good example is the schmoe QUENTIN - his user name has been like that for almost a decade, and obviously he respects Tarantino. When he was part of that Q & A for Inglourious Bastards, he had a chance to pass off any of the scripts he's ever worked on or any treatments he has to Tarantino or Eli Roth - and this was at a publicity event in which these guys were asking fans to ask of them things. QUE didn't do that though, he was cool and didn't put them on the spot.

I think it's disrespectful myself, because in a lot of ways its more about people trying to get an easy in to the biz than about respecting the writer. To whats-his-nuts, he probably just feels like this wannabe professional writer would be well enough handing his script off to anyone in Hollywood. It's like what if you were a proctologist, and just hanging out at a party and some friend of a friend came up to you and was like, "Hey, I'm Martha's friend. We're dating. Would you mind looking inside my rectum, it's been itching like crazy!"

You know... not cool.

Still though, the guy is acting like a jerk in his reactions to it. He even says so himself - that it's a no win situation for him, because either way he comes off as a jerk. Well, he proved his point very well, and personally I don't think he cares as much as some people around here would like you to believe. I'm being VEERRRYYY loose when I say 'some people'.

If you knew David Mamet - would you eventually ask him to read something of yours?

[The Postmaster General]

If you knew David Mamet - would you eventually ask him to read something of yours?

I'd have to know him better than I could imagine, if that makes sense. It would have to be some sort of peer review type of situation, not me soliciting it. I'd have to feel he was interested in reading one of my scripts before bringing it up.

[Hey Man]

I'd have to know him better than I could imagine, if that makes sense. It would have to be some sort of peer review type of situation, not me soliciting it. I'd have to feel he was interested in reading one of my scripts before bringing it up.

No I mean - you know him. He is like your neighbour and you shoot the shit all the time about movies and sports and shit.

[Prismatic Sphere]

Interesting points all around.

And I agree with many of them actually, which is an oddity on these forums for me.

My 2 cents:

-Rants are usually written in a state of fury so some of the apparent elitism throughout the rant is excusable.
-He seems like a nice enough guy outside of this subject when you read his prelude to the rant.
-After reading his rant, you knew that Olsen is quite considerate because of all the rewrites of his own review he did for this guy to be both honest and gentle.
-The overall tone one gets from reading the rant(not the message- I do know where he's coming from) unfortunately, is writer discouragement
-He didn't have to publish this in the Village Voice and could have put this on a website of his own; as many aspiring writers do read that paper.
-It IS overkill. But that's the point of ranting when your emotions are on high.

[ElderPredator]

I'd have more respect for his comments if "A History of Violence" wasn't such a badly written piece of shit. Either way...fucking dick!

[SweetEnLow]

I agree with him, but I found his rant was a bit overkill, towards the middle I was looking for the FF button.

Poor guy clearly needs to get laid.

[Frosty_86]

Im pretty sure this guy is a fuckin prick. When I say a fucking prick I mean a top of the line class A complete utter prick, the guy really needs to get over himself.

I know that I havent advertised it on this site that I have been working on a screen play for a western over the past year but I would never want this guy to read it not because I can handle criticism but it's because of his shitty ass fucking attitude he acts like hes the only fucking person in Hollywood that gets sent screenplays and I would never ever want this guy's opinion on what is good and what is not. I can appreciate the fact that he doesnt want to read a person's script because of fear of hurting one's feeling or whatever and the fact he has other obligations towards people he knows or whatever but he's prick for the way he puts it "I will not read your fucking script" and for the fact he rants about it for almost two whole pages. He acts like he's a Hollywood big shot because he wrote the screenplay for a movie that came out a few years ago that was loved by critics and fans alike and he did nothing before or since that has been notable and in my extremely humble opinion the movie wouldnt have been jack shit had it not had the talents of Cronenberg, Harris, Mortenson, and Bello behind it. Had he had just kept it at just that he had alot more other things at the moment that would be cool but he's acting like its huge fucking burden on him. He comes off like such dick because he rants for two pages and says fuck so much that he seems extremely combative and off putting to anybody who is trying to make in show business. With this it makes it seem like he's not interested in progressing anybody's career except his own which I think is extremely selfish considering that he would not have had any of his scripts made in to movies in the first place had some one not read them and give him constructive criticism.

As it stands this guy is a prick in my eyes not because he won't read people's scripts that come to him he's a prick because he's acting like it's a burden upon him.