Athiests Are Ruining America

[Hey Man]

Glenn Beck is a fucking moron and what's most ironic about his little speech here is that the opposite is true. I really can't imagine anyone with any sort of brain liking Glenn Beck - a douchebag and jackass all rolled up into one. What a truly fucking asshole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEuAVgmWt0U

[SkyNet]

ya... i too Loathe Glenn Beck.. he wouldnt be so bad if he wasnt wrong about every fact he ever says!

[MisterChristian]

Beck should go back to being an alcoholic.

[john_rambo]

Glenn Beck Raped and Murdered a young Girl in 1990! (http://glennbeckrapedandmurderedayounggirlin1990.com/)

When will you guys see the light?

[zombievictim]

This guy just makes me sad for all people like him. Seriously, have some fucking common sense and then you're fine. This guy obviously has no common sense whatsoever.

[Badbird]

Oh that Beck! Wrong about everything, as usual. What will those poor 85% religious majority do?

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/8/15/633859434476079935-christians.jpg

[Hey Man]

This is awesome - total meltdown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA7-BvVDV10

[Prismatic Sphere]

I honestly would have no problem with Glenn Beck if he just didn't talk about religion.

I didn't even know who this guy was until many of you lefties on here started to bitch about him.

But I am glad that the guy exposed Van Jones for what he is before anybody else did.

And since he and Sarah Palin both push all of the right liberal buttons by simply existing, I am quite thankful that some people can still get to the left.

[MisterChristian]

We have a lottery system in Canada to see who gets to see a doctor this month?? What? What? What? Glenn? Hello?

Hilarious.

[Hey Man]

I honestly would have no problem with Glenn Beck if he just didn't talk about religion.

I didn't even know who this guy was until many of you lefties on here started to bitch about him.

But I am glad that the guy exposed Van Jones for what he is before anybody else did.

And since he and Sarah Palin both push all of the right liberal buttons by simply existing, I am quite thankful that some people can still get to the left.

I will at least concede that Beck does have a brain. As for Palin - nothing at all in that head of hers.

[Hey Man]

We have a lottery system in Canada to see who gets to see a doctor this month?? What Glenn?

Hilarious.

I think what he is idiotically referring to are the waiting times for various procedures where they essentially determine who is more important than you.

[MisterChristian]

Coming November 17, 2009...

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4531/51ekwlo1w9lss500.jpg

[Hey Man]

Coming November 17, 2009...

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4531/51ekwlo1w9lss500.jpg

Seriously - anyone that reads this book is just pathetic.

[ilovemovies]

Hahaha. According to the tv show Supernatural, Sarah Palin will be the next President. :D

[Prismatic Sphere]

I will at least concede that Beck does have a brain. As for Palin - nothing at all in that head of hers.

As Dennis Miller put it:

Does what she say amount to anything genius? No.

Do the people who criticize her, are they genius? No.

Does Sarah Palin getting $7 million up front for her book define a genius? Yes.

[outsyder]

Does Sarah Palin getting $7 million up front for her book define a genius? Yes.


No it doesn't.

[jackson13]

Yeah, because of the fact that I dont believe in an invisible guy in the sky and go around trying to control others and tell them what they should and shouldn't do in life and because I live a nice, quiet, keep-to-myself type of life because who am I to judge others, I'm the one "ruining" the country.

A guy on tv/radio who is constantly shoving his opinion down peoples throats, coming off as a moron, demanding this and that of people and generally being a gigantic asshat on a daily basis, he is the one that will "save" this country.



Makes sense, Glenn. Makes total sense.

[Reigh Kaufman]

Atheists are ruining America?

I find that very hard to believe.

[Hey Man]

As Dennis Miller put it:

Does what she say amount to anything genius? No.

Do the people who criticize her, are they genius? No.

Does Sarah Palin getting $7 million up front for her book define a genius? Yes.

No it doesn't - what are you talking about. A publisher is using her, because they know there are plenty of fucking retarded Americans who are going to be inspired by this shit. I hope you are not one of them.

[Prismatic Sphere]

No it doesn't - what are you talking about. A publisher is using her, because they know there are plenty of fucking retarded Americans who are going to be inspired by this shit. I hope you are not one of them.


Not on your life.

[The Postmaster General]

The only things ruining America are Billy Bob Thorton and AIDS.

[Reigh Kaufman]

The only things ruining America are Billy Bob Thorton and AIDS.

And Christian rock groups. Clap your hands for Jesus, yeah!

Fuck off, holy men.

[someguy]

I think what he is idiotically referring to are the waiting times for various procedures where they essentially determine who is more important than you.

He's actually referring to a small town in Canada that has such a shortage of doctors that they have a lottery system implemented to determine who the next patients will be for an appointment.

My understanding of the 'lottery' is that since doctors run private practices in Canada and don't work for the government (I bolded that since Americans are lied to about Canada's system repeatedly) no doctor wants to go open a business in butt fuck Newfoundland because there's no profit to be made from it. If I'm right about that then Glenn is really complaining about the free market he loves so much.

This topic should be moved to Politics anyways.

[hoojib127]

And Christian rock groups. Clap your hands for Jesus, yeah!

Fuck off, holy men.

God = Santa Claus for adults. :p

[Jig Saw 123]

Glenn Beck is a dumbass.

[Natty]

Idiot.

All these anti-Obama freaks are really beginning to piss me off.

[shoe1985]

Not on your life.

Glenn Beck is one of those corrupt people. He has too much influence over small minded people. Oh no, the Obama administration is going to take away everything from us.

[Badbird]

Don't forget Obama's "Give all the white people's guns to black people" program. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBv3BKY_604&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBv3BKY_604&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBv3BKY_604&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBv3BKY_604&feature=related)

[The Heart Collector]

glenn beck

glenn! beck

[john_rambo]

I hate all the political hosts on radio and tv whether they are the democrats, republicans, libertarians, "independent", all of em. They are all narrow minded assholes.

[Servo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqVARNh0Pyo

My favorite atheist.

[ericdraven]

As Dennis Miller put it:

Does what she say amount to anything genius? No.

Do the people who criticize her, are they genius? No.

Does Sarah Palin getting $7 million up front for her book define a genius? Yes.

with that same logic, Bill and Hilary Clinton are geniuses too.

[Prismatic Sphere]

with that same logic, Bill and Hilary Clinton are geniuses too.

What's sad is a lot of people on the left believe that they are. Oh. And Al Gore too. lol lol

I didn't say that what Miller said about Palin was 100% true. I am just throwing it out there to a bunch of liberals who said she will never accomplish anything. They certainly made her into more of a celebrity than her actions ever did.

[Tweek]

I've seen Glenn Beck's program a couple of times and really, I can't take him too seriously. He's so dramatic that it makes me laugh.

[fooknasty]

I find it really surreal that so many people are willing to get on this board and just downplay/bash/attack people's beliefs (aka religion). If I had a bad experience with a black man I wouldn't get on here and say "fuck ******" because I would be no better than them and in turn would be a biggot.

Listen, many people on this board believe in a higher power, so to say that Jesus Christ is like Santa Clause is downright insulting to SOOOOO many people.

I don't agree with half of what Obama has planned, but I don't get on here and bash him for being a socialist, and then in turn say if anyone believes in him they are delusional children.

It's disrespectful

[Servo]

I find it really surreal that so many people are willing to get on this board and just downplay/bash/attack people's beliefs (aka religion). If I had a bad experience with a black man I wouldn't get on here and say "fuck ******" because I would be no better than them and in turn would be a biggot.

Listen, many people on this board believe in a higher power, so to say that Jesus Christ is like Santa Clause is downright insulting to SOOOOO many people.

I don't agree with half of what Obama has planned, but I don't get on here and bash him for being a socialist, and then in turn say if anyone believes in him they are delusional children.

It's disrespectful

Kudos sir.

[Criminal Rock]

You know what else is disrespectful? The way Beck purports lies on life altering issues to a mass audience on a daily basis.

[The Postmaster General]

There was this old guy the did repairs in our apartment building who was atheist. He was a good guy, and we used to always go out of our way to get him a little something on Christmas. A belief in God isn't necessary to smile when seeing your first Billy Bass, that's all I'm saying. So yeah, I've known an atheist and he was good people. So fuck Glenn Beck for saying Gunther is ruining America.

[Smiert Spionam]

What's sad is a lot of people on the left believe that they are. Oh. And Al Gore too. lol lol

In all seriousness.....

























...who the fuck let John Galt back up in here? :confused:

[The Heart Collector]

What's sad is a lot of people on the left believe that they are. Oh. And Al Gore too. lol lol

the actual left hates all these people.

[The Heart Collector]

oh wait, i found this quote

"bill clinton is cool"
- noam chomsky

[Jon Lyrik]

I find it really surreal that so many people are willing to get on this board and just downplay/bash/attack people's beliefs (aka religion). If I had a bad experience with a black man I wouldn't get on here and say "fuck ******" because I would be no better than them and in turn would be a biggot.

Listen, many people on this board believe in a higher power, so to say that Jesus Christ is like Santa Clause is downright insulting to SOOOOO many people.

I don't agree with half of what Obama has planned, but I don't get on here and bash him for being a socialist, and then in turn say if anyone believes in him they are delusional children.

It's disrespectful

Nobody chooses to be black.

[The Heart Collector]

people attack religion because religion backlash is a natural part of being 14-20.

[Hey Man]

I find it really surreal that so many people are willing to get on this board and just downplay/bash/attack people's beliefs (aka religion). If I had a bad experience with a black man I wouldn't get on here and say "fuck ******" because I would be no better than them and in turn would be a biggot.

Listen, many people on this board believe in a higher power, so to say that Jesus Christ is like Santa Clause is downright insulting to SOOOOO many people.

I don't agree with half of what Obama has planned, but I don't get on here and bash him for being a socialist, and then in turn say if anyone believes in him they are delusional children.

It's disrespectful

I disagree - I am not required to hold your hand, because of what you believe in. Religious people are CONSTANTLY in everyone's face and try to control our lives, so in return I am allowed to say that believing in a so-called "God" and religion in general is really fucking stupid and weak. Santa Clause is better than Jesus Christ, at least a child figures out that he isn't real after a certain point.

[fooknasty]

You know what else is disrespectful? The way Beck purports lies on life altering issues to a mass audience on a daily basis.

Again, just becasue one person is misguided doesn't mean you can brand all christians/republicans/etc. as being equally delusional, and then outright DIESRESPECT their beliefs. Then you are no better than Beck, who you bash for spewing these ridiculous accusations.

This thread started out as being about Beck, and then turned into something ugly.

[fooknasty]

I disagree - I am not required to hold your hand, because of what you believe in. Religious people are CONSTANTLY in everyone's face and try to control our lives, so in return I am allowed to say that believing in a so-called "God" and religion in general is really fucking stupid and weak. Santa Clause is better than Jesus Christ, at least a child figures out that he isn't real after a certain point.

You are allowed to say whatever you want, but again just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Whether you agree with the stated above opinion or not, it's DISRESPECTFUL to single out an entire religion and bash their beliefs. I don't agree with Buddhism, but do I shout out religious propganda and call their beliefs childish? No.

Again, you are basically saying that anyone who believes in God is "fucking stupid and weak" and saying that "religious people are CONSTANLY in eveyrone's face" is an example of stereotyping 101.

It's your right to believe what you want (me too) but if you start bashing other religions, then like I said HeMan, you are no better than Beck and are likewise a bigot (a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.)

[Smiert Spionam]

I see your point, fooknasty, but atleast concede that being religious is nothing like being black...

[fooknasty]

I see your point, fooknasty, but atleast concede that being religious is nothing like being black...

Very true, it's not a choice. I was just trying to point out the line of bigotry.

[Smiert Spionam]

Very true, it's not a choice. I was just trying to point out the line of bigotry.

Word, I feel 'ya. But still though, just because someone insults your religion (especially an anonymous stranger on the internet), why get offended? As long you know what you believe in his right, than who cares what anyone else thinks. Plus, considering that the topic at hand regards a religious person insulting the beliefs of the non-religious and accusing them of being un-American, one would only expect that there'd be a fair amount of mud slinging once they even came in this thread, right?

Oh, and btw, this rant is definitely not film related in anyway. Move to Misc. forum?

[SpiralEye]

I find it really surreal that so many people are willing to get on this board and just downplay/bash/attack people's beliefs (aka religion). If I had a bad experience with a black man I wouldn't get on here and say "fuck ******" because I would be no better than them and in turn would be a biggot.

Listen, many people on this board believe in a higher power, so to say that Jesus Christ is like Santa Clause is downright insulting to SOOOOO many people.

I don't agree with half of what Obama has planned, but I don't get on here and bash him for being a socialist, and then in turn say if anyone believes in him they are delusional children.

It's disrespectful

Logic Failure. Alert. Logic Failure.

[The Heart Collector]

Santa Clause is better than Jesus Christ, at least a child figures out that he isn't real after a certain point.

this isn't true by any standard of anything ever.

[Pentangeli]

You are allowed to say whatever you want, but again just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Whether you agree with the stated above opinion or not, it's DISRESPECTFUL to single out an entire religion and bash their beliefs. I don't agree with Buddhism, but do I shout out religious propganda and call their beliefs childish? No.

Again, you are basically saying that anyone who believes in God is "fucking stupid and weak" and saying that "religious people are CONSTANLY in eveyrone's face" is an example of stereotyping 101.

It's your right to believe what you want (me too) but if you start bashing other religions, then like I said HeMan, you are no better than Beck and are likewise a bigot (a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.)


Couldn't agree more. Belief systems, theological views, politicals views, should all be eligible for discussion. But views intended to incite infantile arguments have no place in civilized discussions. Ultimately, whether or not this site allows them, an inciting post exposes the idiocy of its author. Its best to leave them to it, leave them to dig their own hole.

[Natty]

Religious people are CONSTANTLY in everyone's face and try to control our lives, so in return I am allowed to say that believing in a so-called "God" and religion in general is really fucking stupid and weak.

Oh hear we go again...

Well clearly Hey Man you've managed to escape and avoid this so called 'control', so shut up.

[KCJ506]

My problem are the athiests who act "above it all", and there are plenty of them. Ironically they've become what they despise, by insulting religious people and cramming their beliefs down your throat just as much as hardcore Christians. These are the type of athiests who make other ones look like jackasses.

Hypocrites.

[QUENTIN]

My problem are the athiests who act "above it all", and there are plenty of them. Ironically they've become what they despise, by insulting religious people and cramming their beliefs down your throat just as much as hardcore Christians. These are the type of athiests who make other ones look like jackasses.

Hypocrites.

This.

I'm an agnostic and I have no problems with atheists, but anti-theists are another matter. Those who blame religion for all of the world's ills are quite narrow-minded. It's no different than people who blame the world's ills on "Godlessness." There are lots of bad things about religion. Many religious people are really bad people who try to justify their heinous beliefs or actions with their warped or selective interpretation of religion. But more often than not religion is the scapegoat not the cause of those deplorable elements. Certainly there are many who use irreligious brands of ideology to justify a wide range of things just as heinous. And what of all the good people whose religious convictions serve as the basis for their charity work, selflessness, and kindness to their fellow man? To be convinced that any religious individual is dumb is no better than being convinced any non-religious individual is indecent. A lot of it is simple immature rebellion, I get that, I've been there, but it's blatantly hypocritical.

People who are convinced they are absolutely right about the existence of God and nature of the universe and that everyone who disagrees is a fool are equally problematic no matter which side of that fence they're on.

[Prismatic Sphere]

This.

I'm an agnostic and I have no problems with atheists, but anti-theists are another matter. Those who blame religion for all of the world's ills are quite narrow-minded. It's no different than people who blame the world's ills on "Godlessness." There are lots of bad things about religion. Many religious people are really bad people who try to justify their heinous beliefs or actions with their warped or selective interpretation of religion. But more often than not religion is the scapegoat not the cause of those deplorable elements. Certainly there are many who use irreligious brands of ideology to justify an wide range of things just as heinous. And what of all the good people whose religious convictions serve as the basis for their charity work, selflessness, and kindness to their fellow man? To be convinced that any religious individual is dumb is no better than being convinced any non-religious individual is indecent. A lot of it is simple immature rebellion, I get that, I've been there, but it's blatantly hypocritical.

People who are convinced they are absolutely right about the existence of God and nature of the universe and that everyone who disagrees is a fool are equally problematic no matter which side of that fence they're on.

I thought you were a secular humanist(which is what I am). There is no such thing as an agnostic(in any meaningful sense). Saying 'there could be a higher power' basically amounts to nothing. The question is do you believe in the existence of a higher power? If you do, you are a theist. If you do not, you are an atheist/secular humanist/etc.
Saying you 'do not know' is simply a safe cubbyhole to reside in where you still don't have any beliefs; and thusly, you are really just an atheist vying for neutrality.

Agnosticism is nothing more than a cheap copout.

[QUENTIN]

I thought you were a secular humanist(which is what I am). There is no such thing as an agnostic(in any meaningful sense). Saying 'there could be a higher power' basically amounts to nothing. The question is do you believe in the existence of a higher power? If you do, you are a theist. If you do not, you are an atheist/secular humanist/etc.
Saying you 'do not know' is simply a safe cubbyhole to reside in where you still don't have any beliefs; and thusly, you are really just an atheist vying for neutrality.

Agnosticism is nothing more than a cheap copout.

No, it's not. I am an agnostic and a secular humanist, the two are not mutually exclusive. Secular humanism is a philosophy, not a religion.

Agnosticism is an accurate reflection of my religious views. I am not an atheist because I think atheism requires the same type of assuredness that theistic religions do. Atheism is declarative: "There is no God." I don't agree with that. I don't think there's a God, and am pretty certain any personified version of him created by humans of various religions throughout history is just that, but I don't rule out the possibility of some higher being, force, or form of life existing. It's quite possible. "God" could be the phenomena dictating string theory or the behavior of atoms or stars or any other omnipresent entity in the universe. I don't know, and more than that, I think in my lifetime it is unknowable. I'd think it both arrogant and dishonest of me to pretend I was certain either way, I accept that I do not and likely cannot know and move on.

That's not a copout or an attempt at PC neutrality, it's what I believe.

[Smiert Spionam]

Did Prismatic Sphere just say there's something wrong with saying "I don't know?" :confused:

[Jon Lyrik]

Sorry, Quentin, you're wrong. Atheism is not necessarily explicit. There is implicit atheism, which overlaps with agnosticism.

As for anti-theism, it's tired, but not always wrong and sometimes necessary.

[QUENTIN]

Sorry, Quentin, you're wrong. Atheism is not necessarily explicit. There is implicit atheism, which overlaps with agnosticism.

As for anti-theism, it's tired, but not always wrong and sometimes necessary.

Well, to use such uncomfortably assured language, actually you're wrong. ;)

While I'm somewhat familiar with the theories that attempt to sub-classify atheism (weak and strong as well), they are ultimately the theories of a handful of authors that have not radically changed the way people consider it as a simple belief system. While it can be interesting or beneficial to look into how and why they might try to break down atheism into distinct groups, it's not like their theories define what atheism is, it's just one theoretical model for considering it as a philosophy.

Atheism, in common meaning and use, as well as by definition is explicit. What George Smith first defined as "implicit atheism" within his particular theoretical model, the English language defines as "Agnosticism"

From dictionary.com:

a⋅the⋅ism
  /ˈeɪθiˌɪzəm/
–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

ag·nos·ti·cism (āg-nŏs'tĭ-sĭz'əm)
n.

1. The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.
2. The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.


From their Cultural Dictionary:

atheism [(ay-thee-iz-uhm)]

Denial that there is a God. (Compare agnosticism.)

agnosticism [(ag-nos-tuh-siz-uhm)]

A denial of knowledge about whether there is or is not a God. An agnostic insists that it is impossible to prove that there is no God and impossible to prove that there is one. (Compare atheism.)

[Shinigami]

Did Prismatic Sphere just say there's something wrong with saying "I don't know?"


But there's something to be said for people who have next to 99.9% certainty that the God described in biblical literature doesn't exist yet still describe themselves as agnostic because of wishy washy open mindedness. "I don't know" about the idea of a God, but I'm sure enough that many of His portraits in say, the bible and Qur'an are incorrect. If you were to catch me speaking with a Christian about his bible's detailing of God, it would be well-intentioned but dishonest for me to tell him Gosh I don't know. Your God could exist.

Because in my opinion No, he couldn't.

Agnostic, atheist... These terms are so clumsy. I've given up trying to group my beliefs.

[Hey Man]

You are allowed to say whatever you want, but again just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Whether you agree with the stated above opinion or not, it's DISRESPECTFUL to single out an entire religion and bash their beliefs. I don't agree with Buddhism, but do I shout out religious propganda and call their beliefs childish? No.

Again, you are basically saying that anyone who believes in God is "fucking stupid and weak" and saying that "religious people are CONSTANLY in eveyrone's face" is an example of stereotyping 101.

It's your right to believe what you want (me too) but if you start bashing other religions, then like I said HeMan, you are no better than Beck and are likewise a bigot (a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.)

Yes, that is what I am saying. But I don't have a TV show where I spew my opinion to millions of people and I don't care what people believe - but if asked or if in discussion such as this, I will say what I believe.

[Hey Man]

Oh hear we go again...

Well clearly Hey Man you've managed to escape and avoid this so called 'control', so shut up.

I see, so you disagree that many government and scientific decisions are made or not made with religion in mind. Especially if there is a very religious President in the White House. Just think how more free America would be if Christianity wasn't a factor - because America isn't even close to being as free as many other coutries.

[Hey Man]

this isn't true by any standard of anything ever.

Do you know many adults that still believe in Santa Claus?

[Prismatic Sphere]

No, it's not. I am an agnostic and a secular humanist, the two are not mutually exclusive. Secular humanism is a philosophy, not a religion.

You really are a miracle. Even when we agree, we do not agree. Who is your football team? I am a Saints fan. I am just waiting for you to say the Steelers or the Cowboys.

Agnosticism is an accurate reflection of my religious views. I am not an atheist because I think atheism requires the same type of assuredness that theistic religions do. Atheism is declarative: "There is no God." I don't agree with that. I don't think there's a God, and am pretty certain any personified version of him created by humans of various religions throughout history is just that, but I don't rule out the possibility of some higher being, force, or form of life existing. It's quite possible. "God" could be the phenomena dictating string theory or the behavior of atoms or stars or any other omnipresent entity in the universe. I don't know, and more than that, I think in my lifetime it is unknowable. I'd think it both arrogant and dishonest of me to pretend I was certain either way, I accept that I do not and likely cannot know and move on.

I am a secular humanist; and I am really more of a nihilist than an atheist. I make no declarations. My stance simply states, "I do not subscribe to any notion of a god or a meaning". It is not the belief in nothing; it is the rejection of any preconception, belief, and/or faith in something.

Faith is the surrender of reason and the suspension of thought. However arrogant I may come off, I would never be so arrogant as to claim that there could be a higher power. Because any claim of a higher power automatically warrants that we have some sort of a purpose and that such a power knows what that purpose is.

That is why even the most mild believer is suspect because however arrogant I may be, I would never state the claim that there could be a higher power that holds the keys to the universe.

That's not a copout or an attempt at PC neutrality, it's what I believe.

Wrong. Believing that there may be a higher power is not the same as a belief that there is; and is in fact, not a belief at all.

[Prismatic Sphere]

I see, so you disagree that many government and scientific decisions are made or not made with religion in mind. Especially if there is a very religious President in the White House. Just think how more free America would be if Christianity wasn't a factor - because America isn't even close to being as free as many other coutries.

"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe

[Shinigami]

Wait, why is Jesus like Santa Claus again? Are you making a joke or are you actually serious?

[QUENTIN]

You really are a miracle. Even when we agree, we do not agree. Who is your football team? I am a Saints fan. I am just waiting for you to say the Steelers or the Cowboys.

I'm a Giants man. I loathe the Cowboys as much as any sports team besides the Red Sox.



I am a secular humanist; and I am really more of a nihilist than an atheist. I make no declarations. My stance simply states, "I do not subscribe to any notion of a god or a meaning". It is not the belief in nothing; it is the rejection of any preconception, belief, and/or faith in something.

Faith is the surrender of reason and the suspension of thought. However arrogant I may come off, I would never be so arrogant as to claim that there could be a higher power. Because any claim of a higher power automatically warrants that we have some sort of a purpose and that such a power knows what that purpose is.

That is why even the most mild believer is suspect because however arrogant I may be, I would never state the claim that there could be a higher power that holds the keys to the universe.

It is far, far more arrogant to proclaim certainly that you know there can be no God, something impossible to actually know, than to admit that you don't believe it but cannot prove it and remain open-minded. The tenants of secular humanism include placing a strong emphasis on reason, the scientific process, and objective evidence to draw conclusions. It is a rejection of those to declare emphatically God does not exist and more honest to admit it is outside their purview and you believe as you see fit but cannot know.

And as per the examples I gave, I think it's false to assume that just because modern religions have equated God with the purpose of man's life that the two are one and the same. If there is a force, analogous to gravity or electricity, that predictably dictates and controls the behavior of subatomic particles and is therefore responsible for what everything is and does, I think there's a strong case to be made that that is "God." That doesn't mean it has a particular intent or purpose for mankind or any other species. You're using the concept of God from western religions as what God must be if there is one and that's spurious. If there's one thing we're on the same page on here, I think it's that we can both reject Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. that would attempt to personify God as an individual omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent being, so stop treating any notion of it as one.



Wrong. Believing that there may be a higher power is not the same as a belief that there is; and is in fact, not a belief at all.

It is a belief actually. I hate to keep having to break out the dictionary but people keep misusing words:

be⋅lief
  /bɪˈlif/
–noun
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

My opinion, conviction, which I have confidence and trust in is that not only do I not know if there's higher power, though I generally doubt it, but that I cannot know.

But maybe you know better than I do what I believe, as you telling me my personal beliefs are "Wrong" seems to indicate. Tell me John, am I a libertarian as well who just wrongly thinks he isn't?

[Prismatic Sphere]

I'm a Giants man. I loathe the Cowboys as much as any sports team besides the Red Sox.

I used to be a Giants fan; until I took all of my high school chums for all their worth in the 1991-92 era of New Orleans Saints defensive greatness.
I am a Mets fan but I also really like the Red Sox; because the Yankees and their fans can all go eat a bullet.


It is far, far more arrogant to proclaim certainly that you know there can be no God, something impossible to actually know, than to admit that you don't believe it but cannot prove it and remain open-minded. The tenants of secular humanism include placing a strong emphasis on reason, the scientific process, and objective evidence to draw conclusions. It is a rejection of those to declare emphatically God does not exist and more honest to admit it is outside their purview and you believe as you see fit but cannot know.

I have no idea the meaning of our existence. And I DO BELIEVE that we created god in our image and just about every explanation thus far offered is either a con, a swindle, or a fairy tale. I am only about using reason, science, and empirical evidence and I reject absolutely the notion of faith. Open-minded isn't the same thing as being open(which is what I am). To me, being open-minded means leaving the mind susceptable to infection and needing to be directed to a faith.

And as per the examples I gave, I think it's false to assume that just because modern religions have equated God with the purpose of man's life that the two are one and the same. If there is a force, analogous to gravity or electricity, that predictably dictates and controls the behavior of subatomic particles and is therefore responsible for what everything is and does, I think there's a strong case to be made that that is "God." That doesn't mean it has a particular intent or purpose for mankind or any other species. You're using the concept of God from western religions as what God must be if there is one and that's spurious. If there's one thing we're on the same page on here, I think it's that we can both reject Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. that would attempt to personify God as an individual omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent being, so stop treating any notion of it as one.

Your gravity and electricity theory is no better than those who make the case that "everything is god", which is impossible to argue against and is really the ultimate copout.
You should know better than that.
Every religion has the same presupposition as what I outlined above, to some degree. So don't try to sidestep this with some argument you learned in Freshman Philosophy 101.

It is a belief actually. I hate to keep having to break out the dictionary but people keep misusing words:

be⋅lief
  /bɪˈlif/
–noun
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

My opinion, conviction, which I have confidence and trust in is that not only do I not know if there's higher power, though I generally doubt it, but that I cannot know.

But maybe you know better than I do what I believe, as you telling me my personal beliefs are "Wrong" seems to indicate. Tell me John, am I a libertarian as well who just wrongly thinks he isn't?

Since, by your own definition usage, you have confidence in "a statement unworthy of belief", that leaves the door open for faith(#3) and that in effect, you are actually shutting part of our mind off- which is ironic. Saying that you "cannot know", doesn't that eliminate or hinder your ability to understand empirical evidence?

I do have a belief though- and that is that man is an end unto himself and that my rights descend not from god; but from my very existence.
How do I know this?
It is one of the only things that we can know since you are sovereign enough to respond to me and to argue your point.

[overwatch]

Yes, that is what I am saying. But I don't have a TV show where I spew my opinion to millions of people and I don't care what people believe - but if asked or if in discussion such as this, I will say what I believe. So it's the people with the tv shows that are to blame for your bigoted hatred? Ben Stein is a douche and is Jewish, Richard Dawkins is a douche and he is an atheist. You see how people with different beliefs can both be douches? And you know why they are douches? Because neither are tolerant of other peoples beliefs.

[Hey Man]

So it's the people with the tv shows that are to blame for your bigoted hatred? Ben Stein is a douche and is Jewish, Richard Dawkins is a douche and he is an atheist. You see how people with different beliefs can both be douches? And you know why they are douches? Because neither are tolerant of other peoples beliefs.


Bigoted hatred? Please. You don't even know me. This really has to do more with the fact that religious people are extremely sensitive and they get their panties in a bunch whenever anyone speaks up about the fairy tale that is God or attempts to disprove God in any capacity.

My wife is religious and so are many of my friends/family, but that hasn't stopped us all from coexisting - because I don't have a bigoted hatred and I am tolerant of their insanity.

[Natty]

Just think how more free America would be if Christianity wasn't a factor - because America isn't even close to being as free as many other coutries.

Which countries do you speak of? I think I need more examples of what you feel this 'religious control' is doing to your country, sure all of its leaders are religious and they make important decisions that are influenced by their beliefs, but not all of those decisions are bad.

Also, I think no-one would really want America (or any country for that matter) to be too 'free'. If you think about it your so called 'freedoms' mean you have two industry's (pornography, weapons, probably more) that are ruining lives by the day, whereas countries with more 'control' do not have such problems.

Anyway, hit me with the examples.

[Natty]

My wife is religious and so are many of my friends/family.

So you call your wife, friends and family "fucking stupid and weak" too?

[Shinigami]

Hey Man's marriage is his convenient opt out of everything. When he made a misogynistic bellyache of a thread some time ago he opted out by saying that he was married to a wonderful woman who he loved very much. Now she's also religious.

Ooookay

[Hey Man]

Hey Man's marriage is his convenient opt out of everything. When he made a misogynistic bellyache of a thread some time ago he opted out by saying that he was married to a wonderful woman who he loved very much. Now she's also religious.

Ooookay

She is wonderful and religious - nothing convenient about it. It just goes to show that you know fuck all about me, but assume that you do because of some intraweb postings.

[Hey Man]

So you call your wife, friends and family "fucking stupid and weak" too?

If we get into a debate about it - sure. The people I know are not easily offended and are not cry babies.

[Reigh Kaufman]

If we get into a debate about it - sure. The people I know are not easily offended and are not cry babies.

Where the men are men and the women are also men, eh, Hey Man? Where do you live - an Ultimate Fighting cage?

You're like Tim "The Toolman" Taylor without the yucks.

Ar-ar-ar-ar.

[Natty]

If we get into a debate about it - sure. The people I know are not easily offended and are not cry babies.

No one is crying. In fact you're the one using petty insults and caps-lock.

I just told you to shut up and when you continued anyway I asked you for examples on what you're talking about so I can get a better idea of what it is you're thinking.

[Hey Man]

Which countries do you speak of? I think I need more examples of what you feel this 'religious control' is doing to your country, sure all of its leaders are religious and they make important decisions that are influenced by their beliefs, but not all of those decisions are bad.

Also, I think no-one would really want America (or any country for that matter) to be too 'free'. If you think about it your so called 'freedoms' mean you have two industry's (pornography, weapons, probably more) that are ruining lives by the day, whereas countries with more 'control' do not have such problems.

Anyway, hit me with the examples.

No govenment decision should be made with God in mind. Period. People shouldn't be asking themselves - would this offend Jesus? Because America isn't going to be the country that gets the inevitable patents in stem cell cures, because Jesus thinks it's too close to cloning.

Pot should be legal. Abortion should forver remain a choice. Prostitution should be legal and taxed. America should be at the forefront of every scientific breakthrough and not allow other countries who don't have an obsession with religion and God - beat them to any forward thinking scientific discoveries that may for example keep us alive 100 years longer many years from now. But it's happening and that does effect quality of life.

[Shinigami]

Your wife is like your black friend.

http://deusexeverriculum.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/colbert_black_friend.jpg

[fooknasty]

Wow, I don't know why I even got into it with this guy.

You can believe what you want HeyMan, but I feel sorry for you. Nobody should be that close-minded about life.

[Shinigami]

You don't feel sorry for him.

There's nothing wrong with being an atheist. I don't see anywhere Hey Man has been particularly close minded in this thread. He just doesn't believe in religion or religion's God.

[Natty]

No govenment decision should be made with God in mind. Period. People shouldn't be asking themselves - would this offend Jesus? Because America isn't going to be the country that gets the inevitable patents in stem cell cures, because Jesus thinks it's too close to cloning.

Pot should be legal. Abortion should forver remain a choice. Prostitution should be legal and taxed. America should be at the forefront of every scientific breakthrough and not allow other countries who don't have an obsession with religion and God - beat them to any forward thinking scientific discoveries that may for example keep us alive 100 years longer many years from now. But it's happening and that does effect quality of life.

You do realise that many of the laws we live by now (ones that have been working and helping society just fine) are based on 'what Jesus wants' as you put it, they have only become more and more relaxed due to 'what people (men) want' and I for one don't think they should, it's focus on 'what people want' that has done just as much if not more damage than the focus on 'what Jesus wants' I believe.

I don't smoke pot, I think abortion should be legal but prostitution definitely shouldn't. As for the "America, fuck yeah" stance, I'm not American so I can't agree with you obviously, but you still haven't mentioned the countries that are 'ahead' of America socially.

[fooknasty]

Bigotry is very close-minded, IMO.

[Shinigami]

He's not a bigot. He has a religious wife. That was the same reason he didn't have a problem with women, remember?

But his imaginary wife isn't really ot and I should stop bringing her up just because I find the situation amusing.

[Hey Man]

Your wife is like your black friend.

http://deusexeverriculum.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/colbert_black_friend.jpg

That's fucking funny, but no - my family and friends are the same. We are not easily offended, have a great sense of humor and don't feel the need to always be politically correct, because America turned into a bunch of pussies a decade ago.

[Hey Man]

Bigotry is very close-minded, IMO.

How am I closed minded, when I don't give a shit what you want to believe in. You do whatever you want and I hope it makes you happy, just please don't make government and scientific decisions based on religion. THAT is closed minded and that is what pisses me off.

[Servo]

How am I closed minded, when I don't give a shit what you want to believe in. You do whatever you want and I hope it makes you happy, just please don't make government and scientific decisions based on religion. THAT is closed minded and that is what pisses me off.

I actually agree with you from a certain point of view. I'm a Christian, take my faith very seriously and believe 100% in God, Jesus, and the inerrant Bible.

Which is why you're right, Hey Man. What a lot of Christians forget (and people like Hey Man figure out, using their logic instead of their feelings) is that Jesus' people belong to a different political system (a "kingdom") and isn't really supposed to be used for governing a country or making scientific breakthroughs, because that all is supposed to exist in our scriptures and in our churches. If Christians ran this country as according to scripture, it wouldn't be a country, it would be a church, and because God gave us free-will, he has no desire to force ideals upon each other, meaning he doesn't want his people to force others into their beliefs. If Christianity was supposed to be implemented into politics the Jews and gentiles would've overthrown Rome by force.

And on science, I get pissed off when scientists try to use to discredit the existence of God, because honestly, I find science incredibly fascinating and every time I learn something new (Yes, even evolution) it only affirms my beliefs and strengthens my faith. On the flip side, I get pissed off at "creationists" that say dinosaurs are in the Bible (they're not).

So yeah, Hey Man, as a Christian I agree with you (from a certain perspective).

[Jon Lyrik]

Well, to use such uncomfortably assured language, actually you're wrong. ;)

While I'm somewhat familiar with the theories that attempt to sub-classify atheism (weak and strong as well), they are ultimately the theories of a handful of authors that have not radically changed the way people consider it as a simple belief system. While it can be interesting or beneficial to look into how and why they might try to break down atheism into distinct groups, it's not like their theories define what atheism is, it's just one theoretical model for considering it as a philosophy.

Atheism, in common meaning and use, as well as by definition is explicit. What George Smith first defined as "implicit atheism" within his particular theoretical model, the English language defines as "Agnosticism"

From dictionary.com:

a⋅the⋅ism
  /ˈeɪθiˌɪzəm/
–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

ag·nos·ti·cism (āg-nŏs'tĭ-sĭz'əm)
n.

1. The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.
2. The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.


From their Cultural Dictionary:

atheism [(ay-thee-iz-uhm)]

Denial that there is a God. (Compare agnosticism.)

agnosticism [(ag-nos-tuh-siz-uhm)]

A denial of knowledge about whether there is or is not a God. An agnostic insists that it is impossible to prove that there is no God and impossible to prove that there is one. (Compare atheism.)

All nice, except it doesn't explain agnostic atheism, and there's plenty of contradiction in all of those definitions.

[Hey Man]

I actually agree with you from a certain point of view. I'm a Christian, take my faith very seriously and believe 100% in God, Jesus, and the inerrant Bible.

Which is why you're right, Hey Man. What a lot of Christians forget (and people like Hey Man figure out, using their logic instead of their feelings) is that Jesus' people belong to a different political system (a "kingdom") and isn't really supposed to be used for governing a country or making scientific breakthroughs, because that all is supposed to exist in our scriptures and in our churches. If Christians ran this country as according to scripture, it wouldn't be a country, it would be a church, and because God gave us free-will, he has no desire to force ideals upon each other, meaning he doesn't want his people to force others into their beliefs. If Christianity was supposed to be implemented into politics the Jews and gentiles would've overthrown Rome by force.

And on science, I get pissed off when scientists try to use to discredit the existence of God, because honestly, I find science incredibly fascinating and every time I learn something new (Yes, even evolution) it only affirms my beliefs and strengthens my faith. On the flip side, I get pissed off at "creationists" that say dinosaurs are in the Bible (they're not).

So yeah, Hey Man, as a Christian I agree with you (from a certain perspective).

Let me ask you and anyone else here who is religious a question. If science was able to disprove God, would you want to know? In addition, shouldn't science try to do exactly that if they have the means to? Why should science make any discovery left and right - but hypothetically speaking, not disprove God in 100 years let's say. If God isn't real - doesn't the world need to know this?

[Servo]

Let me ask you and anyone else here who is religious a question. If science was able to disprove God, would you want to know? In addition, shouldn't science try to do exactly that if they have the means to? Why should science make any discovery left and right - but hypothetically speaking, not disprove God in 100 years let's say. If God isn't real - doesn't the world need to know this?

I'll PM you. Something tells me this thread is going to be locked and I don't have clearance to the politics forum.

[Shinigami]

I didn't think this thread was uncivil enough to warrant a shut down. Could a mod come in here and say what the problem is so people can avoid it in the future? Maybe?

[Hey Man]

I didn't think this thread was uncivil enough to warrant a shut down. Could a mod come in here and say what the problem is so people can avoid it in the future? Maybe?

Who says it's going to be shut down? As for trolling about my wife - she does exist and is truly the most amazing woman I have ever luckily met in my life. But I am certainly not offended by any comments about her not existing.

[JoBlo]

This forum is for ENTERTAINMENT-based rants, not religious or political.

Thread closed.