will LORD OF THE RINGS beat STARWARS?

[ak]

DO YOU THINK LORD OF THE RINGS WILL BEAT STARWARS' CULTURAL SUCCESS? DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE BETTER THAN STARWARS? PEASE DISCUSS...

[Daisy]

Why is everyone so determined to pit LOTR and Star Wars against one another? They're completely different animals.

Apples and oranges.

[Curiousalien]

Daisy YOU are soo right

Star wars WAS good people love it and great. LOTR LOOKS good but then so did episode 1....
so what are u gonna do? it may suck...

[ak]

I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN. YOU PEOPLE ARE MIXING IT ALL UP. OF COURSE A FILM CAN BEAT ANOTHER FILM, IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION. LOOK, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT ANOTHER SITUATION IS GOING TO ARISE LIKE THIS AGAIN. THERE WILL PROBABLY NEVER EVER BE ANOTHER FILM LIKE LOD OF THE RINGS THAT WILL TRY TO KNOCK STARWARS WHERE IT HURST IN TERMS OF ITS CULURAL INFLUENCE AND THE OVERALL IMMENSENESS OF THE FILMS. I AM JUST TRYING TO GET PEOPLES OPINIONS OF WHAT THEY THINK. WHATEVER PEOPLE SAY, THIS IS ONE BIG FIGHT BETWEEN, WHAT ARE TWO MASSIVE AREAS OF CULTURE, AND TO IGNORE THIS WOULD BE STUPID. LORD OF THE RINGS CAN BEAT STARWARS, BUT WE'LL JUST HAVE TO FIND OUT.

IT WILL CERTAINLY BEAT THE NEW TRILOGY WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT.

[JoBlo]

AK:

Please note that when you write in ALL CAPS, IT MEANS THAT YOU ARE SHOUTING!

[ak]

...how can i whisper...? hehe

[Jezka]

It's a close call, but I think Star Wars might still come out on top. Most people (for me, anyway) you ask about Lord of the Rings go, "huh?" whereas when you ask someone about Star Wars they know all about it.

[ak]

yeah, but you know that will change when the films are released. everyone will know about lord of the rings. infact, it is already quite shocking as to how many people i know have read the books, or have indeed heard of them. in todays society and culture, people are more interested in visual and audio input, so when they've heard of the films being released, there will be no looking back.

...thats official.

[SnowGhost]

Well, I agree that the two movies are compleatly different and may appeal to many different types of movie-goers, i guess this issue might come up. Here's how i figure, I personally think Episode 1 wasn't really cracked up to be all that it was supposed to be. The kid who played Anakin (spelling?) couldn't have acted his way out of a paper bag. Plus, all of those fucking rumors going around about how it'll have nudity and violence aren't helping it's rep. Lord Of The Rings looks incredible and it's based off of something everyone loves: a book. Therefore, LOTR, has my ultimate vote.

Unless of course the trailor for Episode 2 comes out and it looks hella better... but we'll deal with that when the time comes...

Laterz,
SnowGhost

[ak]

...as is the case with most trailers, they actually end up looking better than the end film. this was certainly the case with Episode One. But, i still think that the lord of the rings trailer has that special something about it that i just didnt sense with the Episode One trailer.

Is there some kind of snobbery with people or what? in most film magazines i have seen them saying "Lord of the Rings, bigger than Star Wars?"

...well i bloody should say "Lord of the Rings, BETTER than Starwars. i am getting quite peaved off with the fact that no film is ever likely to beat Star Wars.

Fact: Star Wars: a New Hope wasn't all that good, but is seen as the best film ever because of its cultural influence etc.
Fact: the empire strikes back is much much better. i will personally compare lord of the rings to Empire Strikes Back.

Daisy was saying that you cannot compare them because they are totally different films, well thats wrong, you compare anything and there is a better equivilant.

you said they are two totally different animals, but you can still breed cats and dogs together. believe me, i've tried it.

[ak]

...it was cool.

[Daisy]

Chill, ak, it wasn't a personal affront. I just don't understand the need for one film to "beat" the other. Certainly there's enough audience for both. It may even be possible for the average movie patron to like both films equally as well.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Unless of course the trailor for Episode 2 comes out and it looks hella better... but we'll deal with that when the time comes...</font>

Haven't you seen the new SW2 pics from the French insider? Very impressive.
A sampling--
http://www.theforce.net/episode2/newspics/french-4.jpg
http://www.theforce.net/episode2/newspics/french-8.jpg
http://www.theforce.net/episode2/newspics/french-9.jpg


[This message has been edited by Daisy (edited 01-06-2001).]

[herculeez]

in some ways daisy im afriad we have to look to AK and realise that he's correct in this area. Films shouldnt have to compete what so ever, but unfortunately we have so many novices among us that comparison is usually the only thing that keeps them entertained. "more people die in star wars than they will in LOFT, its gotta be better" the simple people have to keep their minds down to a minimum. instead of reading the film and what is actually there, they tend to refer to comparison as a form of satisfaction.
And thanx to these people who have other simple people (Lucas) making...maybe billions from his whole industry!
thanx a lot AK!

[Daisy]

Gee whiz, I wasn't calling him stupid. I just said I don't understand the need to compare the two films.

So I guess if I go see SW2 then I'm simple? I do not think so, sir.

[herculeez]

ahh daisy, you misinterpret all that i just said. No one is simple for going to see a certain movie (unless the movie be a spice girl one or pokemon one, or one of that nature), but the only people im calling simple are those who fall into the grasps of Lucas' industry and merely tend to compare films without taking them to their limits. As i said before, readin deep into the movies!
i know for a fact that AK can read into movies and i was only mocking him, but im not so sure about yourself, Daisy. Can you read movies or do you just watch it and are left feeling fulfilled yet unknowing that you are missing out on most of the movie. In other words...are you simple?

[V dude]

What Herculeez is trying to say Daisy is, do you feel happy. Or does everyday seem like a long long drag and does the weird flickering images that appear on those big shiny white screens amuse you and make you think of happy thoughts. Or when the screen goes black and the flashy colours are red and horrible do you feel scared, Daisy. Do you feel compelled to hide in the comfort of your seat. Do you Daisy. Do you.

[Tuukka]

I do!

[Daisy]

God almighty, step away from the monitor and get laid once in a while, guys. It would improve your disposition immensely.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Can you read movies or do you just watch it and are left feeling fulfilled yet unknowing that you are missing out on most of the movie. In other words...are you simple?</font>

BTW, employing proper grammar when you attempt to be condescending will help people to take you seriously.

[This message has been edited by Daisy (edited 01-06-2001).]

[ak]

step away from the grammar and just talk about the question i have asked!!!!!!

[V dude]

cLose, screwtiny: of grammer? and spEllIng is. very importAnt' in taking post's 'seriously;

[ak]

well. i really looks forward to that trailer!

[ak]

...shit, wrong topic, sorry!

[idealdiscountdude]

There is no way that LOTR will beat the Star Wars films.........lOTR has a huge fanbase but SW has triple the fanbase if not more than that of LOTR. The first LoTR will probably gross about $250 million maximum.

[Daisy]

I agree. Star Wars fan base is far too vast for LOTR to exceed SW's cultural influence. SW had a 20 year head start.

Besides, Ewan McGregor is hotter than Elijah Wood, Sean Astin and Sean Bean combined. The man's voice sounds like satin sheets if they could speak.

[ak]

i feel you are right about the cultural base, and thought that this issue would always be the main focus of this discussion. although, LOTR does have a massive fan base accross the world, and, hey in twenty years time, StarWars would have dated some more, as would haveLOTR, but not as much, so LOTR might have a chance of catching up, but i doubt it too.

[ak]

The original Star Wars may never be over-taken by The Lord Of The Rings, but i feel that it will definately take over the new Star Wars trilogy, which, lets face it, has buggered up the chance of immense popularity by the very first Episode being so damn bad.

Film is becoming a serious artfrom, and the visual style of Peter Jackson's work may rub off on audiences watching LOTR, whereas Star Wars hasnt really any (episode 1 definately did not), this may give LOTR an advantage, maybe?

[ak]

...visual style, isnt that important after all...?

[Sacraficial Cow]

I think both films will be successful. Which one will come out on top I don't know, and I don't care. I think both have a similar fan base. People who were recently introduced to them or were introduced to them a while ago I think will all have an interest in seeing both, not one or the other. I'll be seeing all of them when they come out. If they're good I'll see it more than once. If not, I'll see it once. That's all.

[Zed]

I have just finish read the third of the five books of the "Lord of the Rings"
(There are five Tolkien's books: three of the "Lord of the Rings" and two that relate the previous facts).

Also, the last weekend I saw Star Wars and The Empire Strike's back for 20th time in my life.

From my perspective "Lord of the Rings" would NEVER beat Star Wars for a simple fact:
Star Wars are MOVIES, scripts taken to the big screen.

L.O.T.R. are great book, but I still think there's no a single writer able to convert this literature in good movies.

[Wilheilm]

And right you are....

[ak]

Well, i must disagree, cause i think the literature can easily be broken down for the films, and as Jackson has said the book is a book, a written medium, no film is meant to actually translate a book exactly, but i think Peter Jackson, who has written the films, has immense talent and will get past this problem.

The main point to make is that the LOTR films will not be a direct realisation of the books, as there are obvious factors that would make this impossible, but what now allows the film makers to realise the books is the vision. As you can probably imagine LOTR may well prove to be the most visually amazing films ever.

[J.Estacado]

LOTR all the way!After the disappointing episode 1 (I luved the movie) every one i know are hanging out for the LOTR movies & aren't nearly as fussed about episode II as LOTR.I Love Jackson he kix & anyone who's read the trilogies i'm pretty damn sure will go & watch the flix.Then theres the people who don't know a thing about the books & just be sucked in on the hype alone.And i know most people i know are going to see both movies with LOTR at the top of the list,Starwars has been done at its best with Luke,Leia,Solo n crew now LOTR is here something new & fresh & hopefully kikass /ubb/smile.gif both will be good though i think /ubb/tongue.gif

[PhilR]

I don't think we can say right now whether LOTR will beat SW in gross or whatever. I think it all boils down to the quality of the films. If LOTR is a fun, smart and action-packed movie, it will do well. Shit movies usually don't perform well, no matter what the fan base. Episode 1 is a painful exception. (heh) I personally was not that impressed with the trailer.... but that's just me.

[ANTBond007]

ak, I think you must accept the fact that Star Wars will probably be more successful than Lord of the Rings. Every time someone mentions that LOTR probably won't do as well, you make a come back as to why it will. We know already. You don't need to keep reenforcing it. You thought Episode I sucked. Fine. But you don't need to state that in each and every post.

Oh yes, my predition...

Star Wars by a landslide. I simply say this because everyone knows what Star Wars is, while many haven't even heard of Lord of the Rings. Yes, they'll see the trailer, but their first impression will probably be, "looks like a Star Wars rip-off. I'll skip it." While LOTR may have come first, Jackson may very well be trying to copy George Lucas and make an Episode I-sized hit.

Doubtful.

[ak]

Hey, dont knock my opinion, i am a massive Star Wars fan, but i just thikn it is time to see something knock Star Wars, and i think this is the time...

[ak]

I think it is arrogant of people to think that there is no film that can beat Star Wars, of course it can happen, it is just a question of timing. I, myself, doubt that Star Wars will be beaten, but it was only massive because of its timing, maybe this is the time for LOTR, who knows?

In the end it seems very doubtful, but i am willing to believe that it can happen one day, and that one film will beat Star Wars cultural success.

[ANTBond007]

Oh, don't take my previous post the wrong way. It's not that I don't think Star Wars can ever be beaten, gross-wise or in terms of quality. It definitely will be beaten at some point. I'm just saying that I doubt Lord of the Rings will do. I can guarantee that there will be a bigger backlash against The Fellowship of the Ring than there was against The Phantom Menace. Why? Because Lord of the Rings is established media. Every fan of the books that goes to see the movie will be disappointed that at least one of their favorite subplots wasn't there. They'll tell their friends, there will be a chain reaction, and....Fellowship will be lucky to break the $200M mark.

[ak]

That could be a valid point.

[ravingbull]

it's bound to be better than Star Wars 1...
the storyline alone will make that happen...
I just hope they do it justice

[PhilR]

Wait a second... what is defined by "beating Star Wars?" Just the first movie? Titanic already beat that... Trilogy vs trilogy? Will Episode One be included in the starwars column? And is it based on Gross or Admittance? There has been some inflation....

[ak]

Essentially, i mean the whole Star Wars aura. And basically, the culture following, which is pretty damn massive!

I have every confidence in LOTR beating star wars in these respects, not that i really care if it doesn't cause i love star wars, but LOTR has a good chance, and it would be nice to see such a film do it. In a recent interview Christopher Lee spoke very positively about the film (he plays Sauromon the White), saying that cinema will be changed and that the films will be masterpieces etc. i am very excited, and for Lee to say that is quite something!

[Tuukka]

There is no way to know how much money LOTR will make. The films might turn out to be crap and then they could flop really badly... Then again, Titanic is the most profitable movie of all time and nobody really knew anything about the film before it came... In fact many expected it to bomb.

People are comparing LOTR to Star Wars because it's the only possible comparison in movie world. Star Wars is the only film / film series ever to reach the epicness and cultural influence that LOTR has had in literature.

It's not about box office... Titanic already beated Phantom Menace to death in the worldwide box office by making almost twice as much money. It's about cultural influence. Titanic is "just a movie", while Star Wars is a lot more than that. It's a pretty unique cultural phenomenom and LOTR is the first film series ever to challenge Star Wars in that sense.

Right now I'm having higher hopes for LOTR than Star Wars in purely artistical sense. I don't really care which film series will make more money, as long as New Line will make their money back with LOTR... If the films are good, I know that they will. If they are bad, I hope that they bomb.

All my life I have wanted to see a serious, adult fantasy / scifi film with impressive epicness and darkness in it. Star Wars will have the epicness, but it lacks the darkness and the adult approach... Where as Jackson claims that LOTR will be dark, scary, violent and sad. Just like a true epic should be. Star Wars will always be a light kiddie film, because that is the nature of SW. Even Empire Strikes Back was an easy-to-watch film... It didn't make you scared... It never threatened to break your heart... Because it's a popcorn film made to be light entertainment.

Nobody has ever done a kind of film I described above... Nobody has ever even TRIED to make one. LOTR is the first film ever that just might do it... That's why I hope it will succeed in artistical sense.

[Tuukka]

...I know that many of you think LOTR as childrens book, but it's a book written for all ages. What has always attracted me is the darkness of the story. It starts off pretty light and then it gets darker and darker... It's cruel, violent, depressive and sad story. And even if in the end good will triumph over evil, there is a big prize the heroes have to pay. Their lives will never be the same again, because the mental and physical wounds they have are too deep... They will never be able to return to comfortable, happy lives they used to live.

When the story ended at the Grey Havens, I cried. The sadness and the melancholy of the ending was almost unbearable. For days and weeks I returned to the book and read the ending again and again... If Jackson will come even close to the same feeling, I know that I will cry again in the movie theatre when Return Of The King ends.

[ak]

What you have said above Tukka is most likely the best thing i have ever read on this whole chat. You are so right about the content of LOTR, the ending really was quite emotional. In Star Wars you could always feel the emotional aspect of each character, but it wasn't enough, LOTR makes the personal actually feel for the characters in a physical response, which is the most powerful thing a piece of literature can do. I really hope Jackson makes this emotion happen in the films, i felt almost hollow after reading the books because they affected me so much, i hope the films do too.

[Dark Prince]

I'd have to go The Lord Of The Rings.

[ak]

What do you mean? you have to go and see it?

[ANTBond007]

I cried when Vader killed the Emperor. I was shocked when they couldn't rescue Han at the end of The Empire Strikes Back. I was in major tears when Luke cremated Vader...I'd say Star Wars is every bit as emotional as The Lord of the Rings. And if the LOTR teaser is any indication, it won't pique much interest (Hell, this might be unfair, but one guy in the back of the audience I saw the trailer with screamed, "What a fuckin' Star Wars rip-off!")

[ak]

I would say that Star Wars might be the rip -off, after all, LOTR rings came a long time before Star Wars!