Arnie could make a comeback right now...

[Tuukka]

They pulled out the new Schwarzenegger flick Collateral Damage because of the WTC attacks... Which I think was a stupid move. The film tells how Arnold's family is killed in a terrorist bombing, which destroys a large office building. Then Arnie goes to South America to kick some terrorist butt.

The film was not pulled off because the film company wanted to respect the memory of WTC, it was delayed to next year because they felt that it would bomb in the current climate.

I have to disagree with them. As far as I know, films like Die Hard and ID4 are extremely popular video rentals right now. Isn't Collateral Damage exactly what people want to see right now? A patriotic anti-terrorist movie, which shows Arnie giving a revenge because his family was killed in a large scale terrorist attack? My guess is that if they would have released the film now, it would have made a lot more money than it would have made without the WTC disaster.

[Cyclonus]

Yeah, and I was really looking fowards to seeing this one!

[JoBlo]

It's a REAL tough call, but under the circumstances, I think they had made the right decision (I think it was supposed to come out a few weeks after the tragedy and was really similar in plot).

It's a tough call either way, because if they didn't release it, they have folks saying that they're "censoring movies" and shit, but if they had released it, others would be crying "opportunistic" and such.

I personally didn't think that the movie looked all that good in the first place, so I really don't care either way. ARNIE needs to find himself a GREAT SCRIPT and GREAT DIRECTOR and get his shit together already! He seems to want to move away from the "action genre" but doesn't seem to be picking the right projects...

[Invincible]

Hey JoBlo! Your speech is awesome! four thumbz up! http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Well guys, In my opinion i would have to say the same thing Tuuka did. He is right about the money making.

[pedro]

I just miss him soo much.....<sniff>.

But whether the movie should be released is a difficult decision. Arnie will always be an action movie star, don't doubt that. The day he isn't, he'll be some political figure.

[Jarheadiswhitetrash]

One word...

Crusade

Figure that shit out dude.

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http://glantern111.freeservers.com/batmanarticle232817.jpg

"Without darkness, there can be no light."

[pedro]

I hear u man.

[herculeez]

I'm with joblo on this one.
I think they did the right thing in postponing the movie.
Even though some people will have gone to see this movie, they would have come out feeling greatly dissapointed, because the movie looks terrible and is likely to be a flop, whenever they release.

[goblyn]

I'm not really a fan of what most would call patriotic movies.

But, that being neither here nor there, I don't like the studios decision. I agree with what JoBlo says about the studio being somewhat trapped between a rock and a hard place. And that they would take flak for not releasing, in cries of censorship, and they would also take flak for releasing it, being called opertunistic. There's no easy way to go at this point.

But, I think the best thing for everyone, including studios, to do in tragic situautions is go on with life as normal (or as normally as possible). I don't think that changes should be made to movies, or that movies should be shelved, or that releases should be delayed.

That said I must admit I feel a bit shocked by the hardline my words are taking. But, when doing things like shelving movies (temporarilly or permanently) or changing them, every one has their opinions and draws their lines somewhere.

Regardless of what the studios decide we should or shouldn't see, or when the decide we should or shouldn't see it. Eventually many of us will face harsh reminders of recent events. This seems like a natural part of the grieving and healing process to me. Trying to hide subjects from our sight doesn't erase the things that have happened. Again, my words sound more hardline then I'd like them to. But, I say what I think.

And it sounds really funny to me, because I really dislike so-called "patriotic" movies and I feel like I'm now defending them. Haven't seen anything about this movie, but it sounds awful to me. But, just because the movie, sounds like another shitty Rambo clone, doesn't mean that I should change my feelings about healing processes or, dare I say it the artistic integrity of a product.

It seems that if a movie is a statement about the world, you have to let it out. Not all movies are designed to be statements, some just try to entertain. But, can entertainment happen without some statement being made. I don't think so. Some statements may be profound, others may be juvanile, but in the end I think most movies can't escape saying something. Even if a movie says something I disagree with, it has every right to say it. If it saddens me I learn from my saddness. If it angers me I spew my words to discredit it. This is a good process.

The other thing is what is the proper waiting period on all this. How long do we wait before certain subject matter can be dealt with again. It seems to me that since subjects like terrorism and the destruction of buildings exist they will find their way into movies. Eventually some movie will take flak for being the first to bring these themes back the screen no matter how long the studios wait to sock it to us. So, why put off what's inevitable. Where one person sees pain another will always find comfort.

Now that I written way too much, again I must say I feel strange defending a movie, and perhaps a whole class of movies that I really hate. But, I can't help what I think.

If offended anyone by saying these things I'm quite sorry. Just opinions.

And lastly, I'm quite sorry I'm thinking and writing, like such a pretencious booger. I'll try not to let it happen often.

[rupert_pupkin]

I dont agree Tuukka - In the light of the action currently being carried out in Afghanisatan, I think revenge is exactly the LAST thing we want to be encouraged to endorse.

The last thing required is a bout of patriotic zeal to stir up further hatred.

I dont believe in censorship in any way, but it sounded like a crap movie anyway.

[Tuukka]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by rupert_pupkin:

I dont agree Tuukka - In the light of the action currently being carried out in Afghanisatan, I think revenge is exactly the LAST thing we want to be encouraged to endorse.

The last thing required is a bout of patriotic zeal to stir up further hatred.

I dont believe in censorship in any way, but it sounded like a crap movie anyway.

</font>

RE: I'm not really commenting on it in a moral, but economical way. I think it would make good money right now. Most americans do want revenge and many are easily blinded by hatred. In the current climate this film would easily find an audience.

[rupert_pupkin]

Fair point Tuukka, sorry I misread your comment.
It may well have been the movie that kickstarted Arnie's career

[goblyn]

I absolute hate all those movies from the eighties that were designed purely to stir up or feed on patriotic zeal (money talks), the Rambo series, the Iron Eagle series, Top Gun, Rocky 4, whatever. But, I also think it sounds censorship to say shelving a movie is good because I think the subject matter is in poor or even harmful taste. This sounds like arguments used against so much of the art that I've liked over the years horror movies and novels, punk and heavy metal music, and so on.

Aside from that, I think Tuukka's right this could have been the movie to jump start Arnold's carrer. I just think that says something awful and hideous about Americans and their lack of sensibilities.

But that aside as well, I think Joblo is right that Arnold really needs to find himself a great director and a great script. I've actually enjoyed a lot of the movies he was in over the years and I wouldn't mind seeing him make a comeback. But, all comebacks, like all movies aren't created equally.

[The Arrow]

Last time I checked Andrew Davis was a pretty solid director. He made The Fugitive with Harrison Ford and made the two best Seagle films: Above The Law and Under Siege.
I for one think Collatoral Damage looks like a good film.

The theme of revenge is a theme we can all relate too. Its a basic human emotional response. What would you do if someone killed your family? What would you do if someone raped your girlfriend? I for one would take revenge. In the wake of the September 11 tragedy I think that Collatoral Damage might have a therapeutic effect on the audience. Then again I speak for myself, I know I would feel better after watching the film. I'd use it as a vehicle for my anger and feel victory when Arnold would eventually kick that terrorist ass.

I personally LOVE those 80's Rambo like movies. I see nothing wrong with feeding one's country's patrotism through entertainment. I applaud the Americans for loving their country. I will admit that some American movies do overdo it (Armegeddon comes to mind) but it never really bothered me (I'm Canadian). Bring on Rambo 4 already http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Cyclonus]

The fact that Davis is in the director's chair is precisely the reason why I was looking forwards to this one. I expect a taut, well-crafted thriller.

~Arrow~ Are you aware that he also did a film with Chuck Norris, "Code of Silence?" That one actually got some good reviews, particularly from Roger Ebert, who gave it 3 1/2 stars!

[This message has been edited by Cyclonus (edited 11-16-2001).]

[Tuukka]

I also think that this flick has potential to be good. Davis is a very slick director, the supporting cast is very good and the premise has promise in it's simplicity. I think it would be fun to see Arnold moving up the food-chain of terrorists in some hostile country. It has also been reported that Arnie doesn't use any guns in this film. So maybe the action could be more interesting and "physical" than usual? The flick is rated R so it will have some gore in it.

[The Arrow]

Cyclonus: I've seen Code Of Silence a long time ago and remember it being pretty good. Its one of Chuck's best in my opinion (Im not a big fan of his). Didn't know Davis directed it though...thanks for the insight...

[Cyclonus]

I think it was the only time Chuck's worked with a "name" director, although I've heard that "Lone Wolf McQuade" is good too!

[goblyn]

I don't know Andrew Davis as a director of the three films that The Arrow mentions I've only seen part of The Fugitive, I ended up falling asleep (I was really, really tired). So, I can't say much about that.

But, on the subject of revenge movies. I think revenge is a fine premise to center a movie around, but I think that there's a level of perspective question involved to. I mean The Arrow asks what would you do if someone killed your family or raped your girlfriend, this seems like a great premise to start a movie. But, such a story seems to have more power on a personal me versus them level then a general us versus them scenario. I maean in those situations, I'm sure I would seek vengence, but against who, that becomes a very important question to me. Going after terrorists or individual terrorist groups seems sensible enough to me. Turning on faceless legions or entire countries seems like another matter. Revenge should be handled as closely to a individual level as possible, otherwise you run the very realistic danger of becoming what you strike out against.

But, aside from this I don't necessarilly think feeding one's patriotism is wrong, it just isn't for me. I'll try not to get too political about all of this, but Superman is supposed to stand for truth, justice, and the American way. Well, I see all those concepts as often running very contradictory to each other. On the third world scene America has often been a horrible oppressor, in every concievable way. I'm not all that patriotic, I can think of a lot of places I'd rather live then here, Holland, and yes even Canada, quickly come to mind. Loving ones country doesn't mean that it shouldn't be questioned. Sometimes other places get things right much more then we do. Questions are necessary to keep freedom and democracy from eroding when you aren't looking.

Anyway, politics aside, The movies just aren't for me. Watching them I always find myself preoccupied by counting the times that are heroes should have bit it. But, if the movies are theraputic to some people in a time of greif, I guess I'm glad they found something to take comfort in, I guess...

[Foolardi]

Say there TUUKA BUB.If your living in Findland then Shut the hell up.PERIOD.

Americans win wars.
Were not out for revenge.
We come to the aid of others.
We seek justice.
All WTC victims were totally innocent.

And movie economics come second.

And Canada is pretty damn close by Web masters. Dig Daddio

And Euro Arnie probably understands.
He married Maria Shriver{very patriotic} and political american.And he wants to run for Calif. Governor.

This topic is very inappropriate,considering the climate.

[goblyn]

Foolardi, Geez man, you're being rude.

And you confuse me. I mean did you bother to read Tuukka's statements. He seems very pro a "patriotic" movie a few different times, especially in his last statement about it being "fun to see Arnold moving up the food chain of terrorists". I don't know what you meant about the web masters either. The Arrow for one is very supportive of such movies. Are you just annoyed that they'd say anything because they aren't American? If so that's annoying.

Again, I'm confused because you spout patriotic rhetoric as you attack those interested in patriotic films. Why???

So, far as inappropriate subject matter goes -I don't believe in it. There are no inapropriate subjects for movies or any other form of art to deal with. While, I don't believe in inappropriate subject matter, I do believe there are inappropriate ways to dealing with subjects. But, that's a personnel thing. What I find inappropriate shouldn't be of anyone else's concern and vicey-versey.

Another thing is, that I the American goblyn have by far moaned the most about not liking this sort of film. But, I recognize that some people will find it cathartic. For them movies like this should be released. There's always time to argue about what it all means later. That's a personnel thing you know.

Mispelling the names of others countries is really rude if it isn't an accident.