Contrast and Compare ELECTION and RUSHMORE

[Irene Manor]

I've seen both movies and I think the biggest difference between the two is that ELECTION is very cynical whereas RUSHMORE is more innocent.

Both deal with coming of age, but in RUSHMORE it is with a 15 year old kid, and in ELECTION the person who goes through the change is an adult, who simply finally grows up.

I'd like to open this up to comparing the two movies, and please no "RUSHMORE WAS BETTER." or "ELECTION WAS BETTER"

Please try and think about these movies and compare the two. They are often cited as being very similar.

[Tuukka]

"Both deal with coming of age, but in RUSHMORE it is with a 15 year old kid, and in ELECTION the person who goes through the change is an adult, who simply finally grows up."

RE: Actually I feel that none of the characters in Election grows during the film, and definitely not Broderick's character. He is the same jerk in the end that he was in the beginning. The strongest indication of the cynicism in Election seems to be it's belief that people don't change, at least not for better.

[Irene Manor]

How would you describe ELECTION though, Tuuka? Do you think the film makes the statement "People get what they deserve?"

Would you say there is any character development in the film?

I like to understand films as much as I can, and it helps most to hear other peoples perspectives. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[inglourious basterd]

Great topic Irene...good example of the way discussions should be. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

Anyways, I believe that the only similarity between this movie and Rushmore was the age group they were attempting to depict.

Of the two, I identified with the effort of Election more because I felt that it had a better, more realistic portrayal of the teen life. Perhaps the characters that were developed were cliched and stereotyped (which was obviously the writer's intention), but I felt that each of the character's motivations and viewpoints were clearly expressed throughout the film. Furthermore, through its portrayal of each character, its point was clear.

To me, Rushmore was nothing really special. I hope that someone could clear it up for me, but it seemed that the characters and the relationships between them were somewhat unrealistic, the love triangle the movie featured was a little too contrived, and their depiction of the difference between public and private schools was incredibly flawed. I guess I really missed the point, but was there a point that was made?



[This message has been edited by psudoazn (edited 01-08-2002).]

[Irene Manor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by psudoazn:

To me, Rushmore was nothing really special. I hope that someone could clear it up for me, but it seemed that the characters and the relationships between them were somewhat unrealistic, the love triangle the movie featured was a little too contrived, and their depiction of the difference between public and private schools was incredibly flawed. I guess I really missed the point, but was there a point that was made?

</font>


I don't think Rushmore had a point as much as just depicting a bunch of odd things that happened. "All is fair in love and war." and all that jazz.. To me, Rushmore was about watching the main character, Max, grow-up. There wasn't really a love triangle, so to speak. Max was just inflatuated with the teacher, and went to war with an adult whom she started dating, and happened to have befriended Max - then again, that is sort of what a love triangle is.

Well, I thought it was all realistic, but did think that the events were really out there. That's what I liked about it though, it was out there.


[This message has been edited by Irene Manor (edited 11-08-2001).]

[inglourious basterd]

Sometimes good topics get lost without being seen.. I just wanted to bump this one up to see if anyone else had an opinion on it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I don't think Rushmore had a point as much as just depicting a bunch of odd things that happened. [...]Well, I thought it was all realistic, but did think that the events were really out there. That's what I liked about it though, it was out there.
</font>

Perhaps the reason I didnt enjoy this or The Royal Tenenbaums as much as I should have was probably the way I approached it. I was trying to ascertain what the underlying point of the movie was rather than just letting it take me where I was supposed to go (so to speak).

However, what distracted me from doing so in both movies, were what I perceived to be an unbalanced mix between drama and comedy. In Rushmore, the actual comedy is overshadowed by the rather brutal exchanges of actions between Max and Bill Murray's Character and in The Royal Tenenbaums, there were obvious dramatic turns that took me entirely out of its light pace.

Anyways, thanks for the reply, I will try to give both of those films (and maybe Bottle Rocket) another chance in the near future.



[This message has been edited by psudoazn (edited 01-08-2002).]

[Irene Manor]

Yeah, I totally appreciate the movie because it just takes me to this strange strange world. Old alcoholic millionares hanging out with overachieving high school kids, then getting locked into a love war with him. Elementary school aged kids watching a staged production of Serpico. "Bombardment Society" is a club where you play Dodge Ball...

Whereas, I found Election to be more topical and realistic in it's mood. There were many great things in the movie, but most were things that have actually been established in society. Adultry, lesbians, fighting for power, teacher-student's "crossing the line"...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Rushmore seemed more like funny people dealing with real circumstances, and Election was like realistic people dealing with funny circumstances - Or along those lines.

For me, the more I watch both movies the more I like them. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Kavan]

I really enjoyed both films but Election is more cynical and slightly darker. Rushmore has an innocent almost wistful quality.

What I liked most about Rushmore was the fact it was an innocent movie. It didn't portray Max as someone to be made fun of but someone to admire.

I think the difference is that Rushmore presented the best of it's characters while to some degree Popular was a much less optimistic story. No one grows, no one changes.

I think another subtle difference is in how the characters are regarded. Broderick's teacher views Tracey with contempt. Meanwhile Murray and the teacher both seem to like and respect Max. Max may be an oddbal
but they don't mind that. On the other hand Tracey is seen as a freak.

I like both movies alot but I think Rushmore is a little higher up there for me. I just loved the fantasy of it. And the kids in the elementary school watching the play is terrific.

[sloopyfan]

There is one other comparison between Rushmore and Election that hasn't really been touched on, the two main characters roles in their Schools both Max and Witherspoon's character (I can't remember her name) are sort of outcasts, and since they are not really in the "In Crowd" they set there focus on out achiving every one else. Max is a playwright but also an entrepenuer and a visionary, Witherspoon is an overachieving bitch who only sees success as being president or getting the highest grades in class (note I didn't say the smartest). Both characters are at the heart very similar ambitous, jealous, greedy and somewhat cold-hearted, both being from the "The Ends justify the Means" school of thought. Yet I think Max comes off as more likable, even though he is no better of a person than Witherspoon. Maybe it is a double standard? I don't know.

[CrowTRobot]

Irene: you raise a good topic for discussion.

I'd say Election is typical of all that was hip in the 1990s: cynicism, dark humor, irony, sarcasm. Mockery and black comedy are some of my favorite genres, but after an entire decade, I think negative signs had begun to show. There's a great moment in a simpson's episode from...oh 1997 or so. Homer goes on tour as a side show for Rockapalooza (supposed to be Lalapalooza) with bands like Smashing Pumpkins, Janes Addiction, and I think Sonic Youth all have cameos, too. anyway, there's a quick clip of two young "alternative" fans enjoying the music with stoic, flat expressions. One says to the other in montone "wow, that was cool" to which the friend replies "wait, are you being sarcastic?" The other replies "I don't even know anymore." That interchange spoke volumes to me when I saw a rerun of it about a year ago (the writers for that show are ahead of their time). Look at how jaded and cynical media and culture had become.
I think, although a biting satire, Election does stick to many of the characteristics of 90s dark comedy.
I think Rushmore and Bottle Rocket (and now TRoyalTenenbaums) are Wes Anderson's way of combating the hip sarcasm and anti-earnestness with explorations of real human emotion, even though he often casts them in absurd situations. It might be more whimsical and detached than the hard-hitting realism of Election, but it might be closer to some sort of greater revalation. Tim O'Brien wrote "Sometimes story-truth is truer than actual truth."
Both movies involve "romance" between adults and children. Election looks at sexual attraction as nothing more than a moment of lust with a lifetime of consequences. There is no love in the movie, only desire. Tracy only wants to succeed. she hates her high school environment and convinces herself that she is ready for adulthood (hence her seemingly rational self-explanation of her relationship with the teacher who gets fired early on). This is cynicism at its best.
Rushmore looks at human relations in a much more sentimental light; that is not to say its optimistic or rosecolored glasses, just (like anderson's great song selecions; soft acoustic ballads, stuff like eliot smith is still writing and rather well) very earnest and down-to-earth. Max doesn't have lust for his beloved, he just loves her...or has a crush. When she confronts him "what did you think was going to happen? Did you think we were going to fuck? Do you want me to give you a hand job?" Max deosnt know what to say...he really didn't know what he wanted. He, like Tracy, wants to rush into adulthood, thinks he's already there. He learns some lessons, though, about how far he has to go, while still retaining his almost unexhaustable amount of creative energy and confidence.
The humor in Rushmore does not mock the human condition, it celebrates the fumblings of an eager young mind and the power of true love (the teacher's devotion to her dead husband's memory, max's eventual admiration of that devotion). By contrast the humor in Election is pointed, polemical, and suggests we're all just slaves to impulse in any given situation and only those who kiss ass and step on people come out on top.
By the end of Election, you pretty much have to condemn, or at least chide, most of the characters. At the end of Rushmore, you want to go out and write a novel or look through your high school yearbook.

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Tim O'Brien wrote "Sometimes story-truth is truer than actual truth."</font>

Good quote...is it from "The Things They Carried"?

As for the discussion on hand...great points guys. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[CrowTRobot]

yes, it is from The Things They Carried.

[Irene Manor]

Wow, you all added some very strong posts! Good quotes, Simpson references, and deconstruction of the 90s. This is making my day! http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

Kavan - Good call on the innocence vs. cynicism. I think that's what keeps Rushmore dearer to me. Well, that and the talks about handjobs. Everytime I watch that flick, I still say after Max and Miss Cross' exchange, "Man, I would've gone for the handjob!" http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Sloppyfan - Another good call. Max was embrassed, I think, because Anderson created a world where everyone was a bit odd, so his behavior, no matter how rotten, was alright. Anderson once stated that he strives to make every character in his movie a good person, not matter how bad they may seem. He brought up a sibling bully in Bottle Rocket, and added that deep down he's a good guy, but during the movie we only see his nasty side.
Since Election has so much more base in realism, the characters appear more malicous and contemptful in their environment. In fact, we all probably know people like the ones portrayed there.

CrowT (cool name BTW, it took a few for me to catch it) - Right on about The Simpsons! Did you, or anyone reading this, notice that the production crew from Anderson films is the same as the ones from The Simpsons - James L Brooks and Co?


"We got more gongs than the breakdancing robot."