Ya think Hollywood will make a movie about the U.S bombing afghanistan?

[eurocat]

Ya know, I've noticed a trend. All these big budget movies about attacks, and tragedies in America. Will there ever be a movie that doesn't buy into America's blind nationalism? Will they ever make a movie about the bombing of Hiroshima? Or our current raids on Afghanistan? We make the most self glorifying cinema, that's total propaganda. Just once I'd like a movie that shows the atrocities we've dished out. I heard that a quote for the beginning of the Sep 11th movie would be: "The day they attacked America" How about "The day they fought back"? Or, "The day that two men in planes, killed the amount of people that the U.S did(Using every cowardly weapon, from basic fire to smart bombs) in the 1999 terror bombing of nato. No. Too long, and to honest. If that idiot Michael Bay gets his hands on the Sep 11th production, it will be the epitome of an idiot at work. I can see it now...Ten million slow mo shots of people saluting the flag. A long shot of them removing the flag from the rubble. Holy shit that movie will suck if bay and bruckhiemer get their filthy little mitts on it. Any thoughts?

[Common Sense Man]

Firstly movies that dis America will not make money in America, hence the studios that want to make money do not make them.

Thats a no brainer.

I don't know if you are a US citizen as your name is Eurocat but all I can say is if you do not like the US live elsewhere.

I have been elsewhere and let me tell you with all our faults this is still the best place to be.

And maybe now people will open their eyes a bit and understand there is a whole world out there not just the USA.

But to think Hollywood will suddenly make movies about how bad America is, that is being very optimistic indeed.

Out........

[Mr. Orange]

I think what he is saying is that movies based on American events are very one sided. And that september 11 movie will probably be the worst one of them all. I don't think that they should make a movie showing how bad america is. Just that the terrorists had a reason to do what they did, and that it probably won't even mention it in the movie.

[The Rob]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I have been elsewhere and let me tell you with all our faults this is still the best place to be.</font>

Are you forgetting Canada? http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

[CrowTRobot]

I think your point has already been addressed, Eurocat, although I don't think you really wanted to genuinely talk about movies as much as you wanted to pontificate your political views.

Here are some distinctions to bear in mind: No country in the world, no culture in the world is innocent. All cultures have killed, all cultures have blood on their hands. I don't buy into blind patriotism, but I do believe that my country and the western world was attacked in a tragically - and even cinematic - fashion that targeted not only innocent humans, but our very culture. Do you live in a commune? Do you manufacture your own clothes, food? Don't you live under the benifits of a capitalist system? If you don't, by all means tell me. No system of government is perfect, everything is flawed because human beings are fundamentally driven by desires. Our democratic republic is the best system yet that allows for a common level of equality. NO it isn't perfect, there are still horendous discrepancies of wealth, there is still political and economic corruption. These things would exist independently of "western culture." The USA, i'm sorry to say, IS NOT fundamentally evil. Things are never that clear cut, they are complicated. The Talbian militants aren't fundamentally evil. They believed in what they were doing wholeheartedly. It's easy for us to call them maniacs, because there's no other explanation for the magnitude of what they did. There is no objective standard of "good" vs "evil" even though, yes, many of our films and politicians would argue differently. you sound intelligent, why don't you think your views through more clearly. Im not saying you don't have interesting views, i just wish you'd back them up with more thinking. We're taking military action to combat future attacks on the US and the rest of the free world, where women are afforded the opportunity to actually leave their fucking house. No, that doesn't mean we are now the moral dictators, it just shows a basic difference in comprehending common sense. No, women are still often treated unfairly in the US. I'm fascinated with feminist theory, but there is no feminist theory in a country where women can't go to school or have jobs. I think we are rightfully restoring freedom to a people. What they do with it is their business.
And to say the US is guilty and deserved the 9/11 events is ludicrous. YES there are reasons why other groups of people in the world would be dissatisfied with the US and its policies, BUT THAT DOESN'T FOR A MINUTE JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS. The US strikes in afghanistan are being perpetrated - to the best of our ability - against protaliban and al queda (sp?) groups, and our prisoners under custody are being held in accord with the Geneva Convention codes regarding war detainees.
Yes we will make mistakes. Every country makes fucking mistakes, but everyone loves to know the Superpower when we fuck up. We can't solve all the world's problems, although we've spent a lot of our resources trying to defend democracy in the world. There will always be someone who hates us. It comes with our identity. It's jealousy, it's taking frustrations out on what people percieve as the chosen country by finding fault with everything we do. With global communications and the internet, the us is ever more in the spotlight, thanks in part to our outrageously fucked up news media.
As for Hiroshima, there are plenty of independent documentaries and films out there on the topic that talk about the "horrible truths" you think so many of us are blind to. MAybe not all of us are blind, eurocat. The power of atomic weapons is awful and I wish the science had never been developed, but in a global society where there is no moral center, why would we sacrifice even more young americans in a war we could not back out of when a powerful THE POWERFUL deterrant would end things right away. YES I know the atrocities, it's sickening to think of the carnage and radioactive death we put other human beings through, but war is fucking war. They were an enemy that would not stop, as their own suicide pilots displayed. Think of being ordered to crash your plane? Think of the sacrifice. To me, that's a truly corrupt and questionable authority demanding too much of its citizens. I'm not saying the US isn't guilty of wrongs, but NO OTHER NATION is any better, so I think most "fuck the us" attitudes are misaimed and not fully developed. Instead of trendy anti-americanism, people should be coming up with alternatives and ideas to help make the situation more to their liking. Personally, I think Nietsczhe was right. we're all just slaves to our impulses and desires, there are no morals no matter how much people try to tell us, there's just ways of co-habiting among each other with relative success. I prefer being polite to everyone. I know plenty of people who don't give a fuck and are generally rude to anyone. That's just human nature. Don't blame the US for it.

Yes, Michael Bay makes atrocious films, but I dont think that the point of the movie was to promote "blind patriotism" the point of the movie was to appeal to as many possible ticket buyers as possible and that's not gonna happen if he asks people to think too much, so he gives them basics. Even a well-made and intricate, intellectually argued fictional movie that actually argued both sides and came out supporting "us patriotism" wouldn't make money, because the fact is that the overwhelming majority of moviegoers DON'T like to think when they are watching movies. They want to be entertained, as is their right. And it's a right they are granted each weekend when 3 or 4 new pieces of crap are hyped, released, accounted, and forgotten.

[Cyclonus]

I think Eurocat needs to take some asprin and get some rest.

[eurocat]

Well shit, Crow. That was quite a statement. You IMO seem to have your head on straight about allot of things. And BTW, I don't think everyone is blindly nationalistic. It's just that in my school everyone IS. I know there are many who carry semi-un biased opinions about the U.S and it's actions, but 99.9% of the people I deal with don't. Everyone totes American flags and says God bless America. Well to me that's bullshit. I know we aren't evil terrorists, but I know we're far from perfect. The Sep 11th attacks got a collective 5870 hours of news coverage, and our Afghanistan raids are ignored. We are KILLING innocent kids, and families. We haven't killed bin Laden. For all we know he's in Las Vegas livin' it up. We have so much well funded weaponry that we have to use it on someone. (Clinton made use of our bombs when he got his dick sucked, just to take some attention from himself.) And when we do, it IS terrorism. It's not war. The US hasn’t been under a formal declaration of war since WW2. So every bomb we drop is terrorism.
I KNOW no country is perfect. I'm not saying any country is. But so many (At least the people I know) Think we are the saviors of the fucking planet. They honestly think the U.S is a rightfully imperialistic power, that is curing the world of icky evil communism(among other things). Well we police the fucking world. That's why Vietnam went down. We stuck our noses where they didn't belong, and had our asses handed to us. We are lead by a truly sophomoric idiot. Bush is an aggravating piece of shit. He's a remanifested Michael Bay. He's an asshole.
I didn't say we deserved 9/11. I just think that what goes around comes around. And it came around in a big fucking way. And it sucks, but that's the way it is. But it gave everyone something to talk about, and come together on. All of us on that day went, Poor America. Poor poor America. Now six months later We're still wining. Seriously we have to stop honoring ourselves, and stop bombing innocents. it's bullshit. Afghanistan is our scapegoat. Our little personal punching bag. It's that little crazy kid on the playground, that finally got up the nerve to take a swing at the school yard bully. And it hit the bully so hard he cried about it all year long. Now the bully gets his lame ass revenge by punching that kid in the gut once a day. It may not be right but the rest of the playground won't say anything. Infact they'll even rought him on. And no one is prouder of the bully than his gang. At least that's the symbolic way that I see it.
America for the most part has become corporate America. Fuck, look at that awesome super bowl halftime show with U2. The E-trade half time show. Even Budweiser cashed in on Americas patriotism with that Horse commercial. I know most of you've seen fight club. That's what I'm getting at. Corporations that turn us into suit whereing zombies. America is nothing but money money money. And that's fine with everyone that has some. Well 45 million Americans live without health care. 35 million live in fuckin' poverty! The richest ten percent of Americans own 80% of all wealth. That's America. Land of the rich. So many are straight up blind to our problems, and that pisses me off. Especially when they defend us with 0 knowledge of the facts. And don't take that as being aimed at you.
In my world, everyone loves God, America, and Bliss. I go to a Catholic school that encourages this. How wide does a blindfolded man smile? About as wide as he frowns when it's removed. And that's allot of people. A LOT of people. And I try my hardest to make sure that that’s not me. I like America. I like and appreciate every opportunity I have as an American. And I don't step on the flag. I just keep it folded up in my attic. I hate what we do. But I don't ignore it. I protest it, and will always protest it. And hate it most when it's ignored/honored in shitty ass cinema which is the finest median of art. I hated Armageddon with a passion. I literally yelled fuck America as I walked out of Pearl Harbor. And If Bay makes Sep/11th...I will go on a kill crazy rampage.

[Claymore]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Common Sense Man:
I have been elsewhere and let me tell you with all our faults this is still the best place to be.
</font>

Hmmm...
Narrow minded people...
"Zero tolerance" - hah!
Lots of people with guns...
Tornados, hurricanes, and plenty of other natural disasters...
Narrow minded people...
Religious nutcases...
World leader in mass and serial killers...
A weird idea of rights and democracy...
...did I mention, narrow minded people?

Best place to be...I wonder...

[The Shadow]

When did this switch from movies to a country debate? Comeon people, get it together!

[dicaprio_travolta_man]

I love my country, and it is IMO the best country to live in, were free, we have rights, we have a smart man controlling our country, and we provide support for those who are in need. Living New York has given me the chance to visit the site of the world trade center and when I was there the respect people were for each other was just overwhelming. Although, I am ashamed that it took a national disaster to bring our country together, we should have been united before hand, but despite that I am proud to call myself an american!!!

Eurocat- This has nothing to do with the topic but I found your statement of Michael Bay being an idiot very rude, I mean you may not like the guy's movies but does that make him an idiot? I think not. How do you know he's an idiot? Have you met him? or are just judgeing him based on the films he's made (Which I happen to like all his movies, they're a nice break from all the other artsy fartsy flicks that are sometimes around, they're brainless entertaining action films). I'm sorry for lectureing you but I felt I should say something. To each his own. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[DavidC]

Not exactly the kind of "entrance" I had in mind but oh well.

First off, Michael Bay doing a movie over Afghanistan would indeed be fucking lame. Pearl Harbor was lame, solely because the "facts" in it were completely off base. I'm not an idiot, and I know how the movie industry works, but making a biased ethnocentric rendition of an actual event is NO act of commemoration. No matter how you look at it.

Second..."9/11"...what can I say. We funded, trained, and even recognized the Taliban as a faith-based organization. When we funded and trained them they were called the Mujahideen. Whose to blame? Well is no one held accountable for their actions any more?! fuck that.

Third, our current solution will only cause more problems. At times terrorism simply consists of a group of people organizing themselves to resist "stolen" occupations of their soil, and if indeed terrorism is a subjective response to struggle then it's concievable that in fighting terrorism we will only cause a proliferation of it. No we are not wrong in trying to punish those who did this but yes we are wrong in trying to punich terrorism (we're a terrorist nation too ya know).

Last but not least, a movie over "9/11" will surely be done eventually. Hollywood has already enlisted in Bush's war drive, and it reeks. But whatever...

Yes I am a leftist and am critical of many U.S. actions, particularly their well-documented regimented clandestine violent acts towards anti-capitalist advocates, and yes I feel as though the extent of the american holocaust has never been given its "due" (a major understatement) but to tell you the truth, there are still certain things in this country I would gladly fight and die for. Like my family, friends, a very special female friend of mine, and hell, even my He-Man action figures, haha. Risking my life to keep the cost of oil low for some old man is obviously not one of them.

Maybe some of you see more than arbitrarily drawn lines on a map signifying where someone is from when you look at the U.S. and that's fine, but to me, a life taken on US soil is no different from a life taken on Middle Eastern soil. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so quit pissing on other people's culture! haha.




[This message has been edited by DavidC (edited 02-18-2002).]

[Jay_visigoth]

----------first of all, sorry if i offend anyone with my opinion---- second of all, you have EVERY RIGHT TO BE A PATRIOT---

So if you do not like patriotic movies DO NOT WATCH THEM. I think the U.S "universal-system" is what makes its universal-politics-moves suck and by all means, US CITIZENS are people too, they are not Serial-killers and college boys, marines and PATRIOTS! BUT G.W.Bush is clearly not HARRISON FORD and BILL PULMAN or MORGAN FREEMAN... i mean he doesn't know the prime-ministers of dozen of hot-spots(or just one?)and it would be unbelievable if could fly a plane or something... ,anyway, my point is, HOLLYWOOD is USED by the U.S government. And all the citizens all over the globe KNOW what the truth is and either they reject the message either they love it. You know people from europe reject U.S patriotism, the fault is clearly on the scriptwritter-producer-director team, because they are crying out loud "WEEE AREEEE TRUEEE AMERICANS!!!" and we just don't give a....! But in "BraveHeart" no one cried out loud "I AM A TRUEEEE SCOTISH!!!" so... Basically either you reject it, you critise it either you just buy it... sorry love it!
erhm... AND DO NOT START ABOUT DOMESTIC-propaganda-stuff! Hollywood sends its movies all over the globe BUT AS I SAID....
BLAME THOSE DICKHEADS!!(Bruckheimer-Emerich et la) sorry... again!
I think we all have to watch "On the Waterfront" for redemption!!!! lol

[Jay_visigoth]

And to answer the question, NO PLEASEE DO NOT MAKE ANY MOVIE ABOUT THIS GOD DAMN WAR!
Except if it is THREE KINGS-style!!!
SORRY FOR THE SWEARING but that's what this war is!!!
I believe we also have to watch "Shindler's List" also for Redemption!!!
And the "Three Kings" ok?
And "The serpent's eye" ok?
Sorry for the swearing again.
EUROCAT you 've been very rude! Shame on europe!
THAT'S MY BUSH!!!!----????

[Jay_visigoth]

YES I KNOW YOU ARE NOT STUPID, i have met many americans, -none of them voted Bush, by the way-. I like you people but hollywood really fucks up with your WORLD IMAGE(the picture the world has for you...my english are getting better and better! lol)...
AGAIN SORRY!

[blackbear]

Eurocat some of your points may be valid. Yes the USA can be deemed to be materialist, blindly patriotic and sometimes inwardly thinking and the USA does have a global image problem. However I still think it is a great nation. No system or country is perfect Eurocat and sometimes it is not difficult for one to become blasé about how great the country is, even despite its problems, in which we reside. I am confident to say it is much more favourable for you to live under a capitalist system, warts and all, than any other current system that is in place.

I for one am also glad the USA intervenes in troubled areas because I don’t even want to contemplate the alternative. I also think patriotism and loyalty, though misguided at times, is an important asset for any country.

The bombing of Hiroshima, Bosnia and the killing of Afghanistan civilians are tragic occurrences but I put to you this question Eurocat. What other alternatives should of the USA taken in these three cases? It is always easy to shout from the stands and make claims of injustice but the real test is the ability to submit a plausible working solution in which would ultimately be an improvement on the course of action already taken.

One last point Eurocat. I am sorry but no rational, fair minded, moral person should ever use the phrase “what goes around comes around” when discussing 9/11.

[eurocat]

OK OK! First off Bush is NOT a smart man. He uses lame ass diversion tactics to throw off U.S citizens. Pour Example: Sending a dollar to Afghanistan children. Holy fucking shit! What good is a fucking dollar going to do corpses? We bomb the hell out of them, and then drop food, and give them money. Makes sense. And I don't give a shit if I’m "very rude" as was stated twice by Vigsvoth and travolta. Michael Bay pisses me off. I've heard him speak, he's a dumbass. And Once again Bay is one of the millions of blindly nationalistic zombies in America. He happens to get his hands on the resources to make shitty movies every year. My friend brought over pearl harbor on DvD, and I wouldn't even let him set it next to my copy of Pulp Fiction. For fear of pearl Harbor's shittyness rubbing off.\

Hey Claymore, Bravo!

Cyclonus sir, my head feels fine. Please don't throw out shit like that just cause you disagree, and can't back it up.

Vigsvoth, If I just let movies like Pearl Harbor slide, than that's not dealing with what I consider a problem. The world doesn't just disappear when you close your eyes does it?(Memento) I think most patriotic movies are bull shit. So damnit, I'm gonna speak up about it. And By the way, Je ne suis pas européen, je suis américain. Et il n'y a pas de besoin de glisser dans français, PENDANT QUE TAPER! Seulement l'effacer, d'accord? Et la propagande domestique est existant dans toutes formes de presse. Les films ont inclus. Nous sommes gouvernés par les gens qui veut nous ignorent, et ignorent que nous sommes.

What it means to me to be an American is to live a very easy life. Everything is instant, and miniature, and express. We lead the world in most everything. And every time I pull through a McDonalds drive through, to me that's being an American. However, we are blindfolded, lied to, and herded by supposedly fair and just rulers. The stupider we are, the easier we are to manipulate. Well not me. I'm not a genius, but I'm not cattle either. I'm not going to salute the flag, and join the army. I'm already a pawn for the States. Why would I become a bigger one? America is a good place for those with money. But for those, who have been screwed over by an immensely corrupt system, America is hell. Have any of you been to Philadelphia? Well I have. And that is NOT the American Dream. It's the American nightmare. And it's I nightmare we turn our heads away from. Like I said before; 35 million Americans live in utter poverty. 35 MILLION. That's not you, so why should you care. For you, all the benefits of America are right in your face. Shit your sitting at your PC(your personal fucking computer) now reading this. How many TV's do you own?
How many Cars? Well than God bless America, everything's hunky dory.
I know that no one wants to contemplate the facts, let alone deal with them. But they are still facts, dealt with or not. America's got it good and it's bad. And for the most part we're doing pretty good. It's just that we ignore the bad. Ignore it completely. And that needs to stop.

[specialagentfraser]

if theres any movie about 911 in the next 10 years that would be in poor taste. who would play george bush,ive got an idea george could
play himself considering he is one big act

here's a quote from george when he was in a classroom "first of all i'd like to spank all the teachers aahhhh woooops i mean thank all the teachers"

[DavidC]

Blackbear, an alternative to the bombing of Hiroshima is not needed. Months prior to the actual bombing Japan spoke of defeat and that they would soon surrender. In the words of P.M.S. (lol) Blackett, it was "the first major operation of the cold diplomatic war with Russia...". That appears to be the main reason as to why the bomb was dropped: to show Russia we "had the cards". And what about Nagasaki? Or the U.S. embargo on Cuba? Or 55 other instances in which we...well, you get the picture.

"I for one am also glad the USA intervenes in troubled areas because I don’t even want to contemplate the alternative"

Now that's just one stupid fucking comment.

"I am sorry but no rational, fair minded, moral person should ever use the phrase “what goes around comes around” when discussing 9/11."

But you sure seem to be able to justify Hiroshima pretty well.

[loner]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by eurocat:
35 million Americans live in utter poverty. 35 MILLION. That's not you, so why should you care. For you, all the benefits of America are right in your face. Shit your sitting at your PC(your personal fucking computer) now reading this. How many TV's do you own?
How many Cars? Well than God bless America, everything's hunky dory.</font>

Hmmmm....well since you asked eurocat I own 2 tv's and 2 cars. I also have the personal fucking computer and I own my own home. Yet there are 35 million Americans who live in poverty and you assume that I don't care. Well....you are right!! I don't care. And give me one good fuckin' reason why I should. Now tell me....how do you think I'm able to afford those two cars and 2 TV sets. They weren't fucking handed to me when I was 18. No...through my perserverence,smart thinking, and hard work I have been able to achieve and afford such wonderful things. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. All the luxuries that I have and enjoy are the result of me working hard to get them. So no....I feel absolutely no guilt for having more things than the "less fortunate". Now you may think that all of those 35 million poverished Americans were screwed over by "the system". But that's bullshit. That's a typical fuckin' liberal knee-jerk reaction there. It's always someone else's fault. Personal responsibilty never is a factor now is it??? People seem to forget one thing. And that is America doesn't guarantee success. It guarantees oppurtunity. It's how one takes advantage of that oppurtunity for it to turn into success.

I'm an American who loves this country. I belive in the oppurtunity it gives to one's self. I love having my two cars, tv sets, and personal fucking computer. And no I don't feel the least bit sorry for the people who live here and don't have as much as I do.



[This message has been edited by loner (edited 02-18-2002).]

[Jay_visigoth]

This is gone toooo far. People, firstly:
Although i like french, some people from up there(since Greece is down here http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif like you eurocat are really really f*cking rude! I mean ok, U.S of A have fucked up the middle east, the balcans(i live in the balcans! So do not tell me about the bombs in Yugoslavia!) et la.
But since you all want to look at the past, England fucked up the world too-remember divide and conquer!
But looking further back Turkey had also fucked up the world.
So did the Roman Empire!
So did THE HUNSS...
This has gone far. Just like the "conversation", Go ahead blame U.S-ofcourse they 've done what they 've done but the European leaders are supporting their actions? Whose to blame?
BLAME POWER! BLAME DEVIL HIMSELF! BLAME EVIL PRESIDENTS-lol-! America is a ruler now-The Prime minister or U.S is THE WORLD LEADER. But why do we have to solve all the MILITARY PROBLEMS? Can't you take a look around you? See poorness? See misery?
EUROCAT all i have to say is SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU MORAN! Help the people close to you AND STOP JUDGING! Because there is no way out in POLITICS! DEADEND! Do what you can and let the other people do what they do. When you can not change something LET IT BE-beatles sang it- it is time to happen, i mean for CHRIST SAKE! U.S.A is not AT ALL a BURNING HELL that wants to take over EUROPE-if thats what you are afraid of-, it is just a country-world leader that makes mistakes-for its own good though but..- Dead End...
And i know a lot of people that were happy for the destruction of the WTC, but none of them wasn't sorry for the victims!
Because WE ARE ALL VICTIMS OF THEIR-leaders of europe,usa,africa et la- power and trust me, if you want to blame someone for the curent world order, blame everyone of us who instead of HELPing those in need, we fight for THEM!
And trust me, Michael Bay and Bruckheimer can be whatever they want... You kust stop critising! And end this stupid "conversation"! For the sake of your ansestors!

[Common Sense Man]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Claymore:
Hmmm...
Narrow minded people...
"Zero tolerance" - hah!
Lots of people with guns...
Tornados, hurricanes, and plenty of other natural disasters...
Narrow minded people...
Religious nutcases...
World leader in mass and serial killers...
A weird idea of rights and democracy...
...did I mention, narrow minded people?

Best place to be...I wonder...</font>

Well you have the right to wonder but I doubt you will be picking up and moving to Uganda anytime soon.

I stand by my statement. If you find the USA to terrible leave it.

I will not be posting here anymore as once you start talking politics or religion things just disintigrate, and this is a movie site anyway,

Out................

[blackbear]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DavidC:
Blackbear, an alternative to the bombing of Hiroshima is not needed. Months prior to the actual bombing Japan spoke of defeat and that they would soon surrender. In the words of P.M.S. (lol) Blackett, it was "the first major operation of the cold diplomatic war with Russia...". That appears to be the main reason as to why the bomb was dropped: to show Russia we "had the cards". And what about Nagasaki? Or the U.S. embargo on Cuba? Or 55 other instances in which we...well, you get the picture.

"I for one am also glad the USA intervenes in troubled areas because I don’t even want to contemplate the alternative"

Now that's just one stupid fucking comment.

"I am sorry but no rational, fair minded, moral person should ever use the phrase “what goes around comes around” when discussing 9/11."

But you sure seem to be able to justify Hiroshima pretty well.</font>

DavidC please note I did not defend or justify the bombing of Hiroshima. I asked for a better alternative in which you did not offer. I am not to sure where you required your information but all evidence suggests at the time of the Hiroshima bombing, Japan had no intention of surrendering. Nagasaki? Well there had been no response from the Japanese had there? I believe upwards of 250,000 USA casualties were expected had normal invasion plans been implemented. Anyway I am sorry but comparing Hiroshima with 9/11 is like comparing apples and oranges.

I concede there have been questionable misguided courses of actions that have been taken over the years and these should be discussed and debated. However DavidC unfortunately you took the same route as Eurocat by critizing the situation without offering any constructive workings solution.

[The Shadow]

Uh...Moderator, better get in here before caps start busting.

[eurocat]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jay_visigoth:
EUROCAT all i have to say is SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU MORAN! Help the people close to you AND STOP JUDGING! You kust stop critising! And end this stupid "conversation"! For the sake of your ansestors!</font>

Hahahah! “Moran” is spelled moron, there smart guy. Well hey, hey! Calling me a “moran”, and then telling me not to judge? Um...check yourself there pal. I haven't gotten personal, and you have. Not cool at all. I can at least respect your opinions enough to hold a debate with you. You think my views make me a moron? Fine. I what? I kust stop critising? Um... what does kust mean, and what is critising? I think you should learn to spell criticizing, before you tell me I can't. And I won’t end this debate, not even for the sake of my *ancestors.(with a C not an S)

[Cyclonus]

I think they will make a movie about it, but it probably won't be too critical of US policy!

[JoBlo]

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Thanks for understanding and if you can't bring anything constructive to any debates in any of the forums, I would suggest you simply not participate in them...

[The Shadow]

Thank you JoBlo, glad someone heard me.

[eurocat]

Ok ok. You're right, this should be more movie oriented. Well all I have to say is that there's allot of good cinema out there that honors America and it's heroes, but doesn't glorify, or give them supremacy. Movies like Saving private Ryan, are a good example. However movies like pearl harbor, have to stop. Saving private Ryan was about human compassion, at least to a point. A woman had lost three of her sons in WW2, and the powers that be weren't about to let her loose the fourth. I think that's awesome. Pearl Harbor was about how evil those Japanese were to bomb our military ports. Even though it was a military area they were bombing. And the U.S eventually came back and dropped TWO atomic bombs on Japanese cities. Which I know Bay would never even acknowledge in one of his trite lame ass patriot fests. But anyway, I just want war films to be less one sided. Just make the audience understand that both sides were just men fighting for there country. I mean shit, look at the Patriot. Could the English look any more evil? That's not cool, and it's NOT good film making. "That's all I have to say about that."

[eurocat]

with one post from the moderator, everyone looses there nerve. ok.

[loner]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by eurocat:
Pearl Harbor was about how evil those Japanese were to bomb our military ports. Even though it was a military area they were bombing. And the U.S eventually came back and dropped TWO atomic bombs on Japanese cities. </font>

Oh of course...the US is more the villain because it struck back "harder" against Japan right?? Yeah, yeah.

Anyways...now Pearl Harbor was not a good movie by any means. But I don't think it's fair to say it was just about how "evil" the Japanese were to bomb our military port. And if it was so what?? I mean what are you saying...that the movie should have given some impressions that the attack was justified?? What the fuck is the point you are making with that statement. If your upset because that movie made the Japanese seem evil for bombing Pearl Harbor I have some news for you: JAPAN REALLY DID BOMB PEARL HARBOR!!! How should the attack be portrayed?

That movie was a (crappy) love story set against the backdrop of the Pearl Harbor attack. And I for one have no idea how one can make a movie about that attack without Japan being portrayed as the bad guys.

[blackbear]

It has nothing to do with losing one’s nerve. Sorry but your posts aren’t making any sense. No offence but they are just a collection of unlinked statements without defining any sensible point. This could have been an interesting debate on filmmakers showing both viewpoints in a storyline.

[idealdiscountdude]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The Rob:
Are you forgetting Canada? http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif</font>

Exactly!!! Canada is a far better place to live than the U.S!!!! Our health care system is a helluva lot better!!! http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif


Ouch, this is one heated debate!!


[This message has been edited by idealdiscountdude (edited 02-20-2002).]

[V dude]

It's almost sad to say this but if Hollywood do...people will love it. They'll all fork over the cash.

It'll be out on Sep 11th to Honour the victims of the WTC. It'll be a story of american bravery, honour, and American strength.

And people will lap it up and believe it. It won't show the two towers collapsing, but it'll be about it based on the families affected. And it'll be patriotic and but it will be money making!

[This message has been edited by V dude (edited 02-20-2002).]

[eurocat]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by idealdiscountdude:
Exactly!!! Canada is a far better place to live than the U.S!!!! Our health care system is a helluva lot better!!! http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif


Ouch, this is one heated debate!!


(edited 02-20-2002).]</font>

Yeah, but Canada's cold.

[idealdiscountdude]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by eurocat:
Yeah, but Canada's cold.</font>

Do you think we live in igloos and go ice-fishing all day????????

[The Shadow]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by idealdiscountdude:
Do you think we live in igloos and go ice-fishing all day????????</font>

I don't know about that, but I have heard, from several Canadian friends, that they are just glad to be in a warmer climate 'cause Canada is very cold. Oh God, I can't believe I have participated in this topic.

BTW I am not insulting Canada or anything. I have just heard it is pretty cold there at times. You guys are good in my book http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[eurocat]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by idealdiscountdude:
Do you think we live in igloos and go ice-fishing all day????????</font>

YEs Of coarse! You all where big fur coats with hoods, and go snowshoeing all day long, and then watch the only sport you can play up in that tundra engulfed wasteland...HOCKEY!

JOKING! I'm just kidding my friend. I've been, and know that you don't live in igloos and shit. It's just that it is quite abit cooler up there what with the higher longitude and all. Not sayin' you're ice fishermean ok?!

[The Shadow]

eurocat, are you looking to be slaugtered? I have the feeling this is gonna erupt again...


[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited 02-21-2002).]

[CruJonesIs Rad]

I just want to say, that IF someone does decide to make a film about terrorism & war & famine & hell and Afghani body parts and 9/11 heroic firefighter widows, I think the title of it should definitely be called "GOD LIKES IT WHEN ALL THIS SHIT GETS US TALKIN'"


http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[eurocat]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The Shadow:
eurocat, are you looking to be slaugtered? I have the feeling this is gonna erupt again...


[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited 02-21-2002).]</font>

get a sense of humor

[Irene Manor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by eurocat:
And If Bay makes Sep/11th...I will go on a kill crazy rampage. </font>

Dude, you sound like you're on your way there with out the movie. Most of the stuff you keep going on about sounds like the rants of those poser rebel-wannabe. You know, kind of like that poser wannabe depressed kid who flew the single jet cesna into the Bank of America building here in Tampa. He said a lot of the same things you are saying, eurocat. That doesn't mean that you are a loser/poser/rebel-wannabe, eurocat, that just mean that maybe you should really think about what you are saying and who your audience is. (Sort of like the American director Michael Bay does when making movies for American audiences. Eh?)
And what? You go on about American's propaganda through film and press? Dude, you sound like the most influenced by these mediums. You view Michael Bay as a problem? Doesn't that seem a bit trivial to consider a problem. Do you have some sort of investment in the flag-market, and all of this patriotism is messing your buisness up, or something? I don't get it, eurocat. HOW DOES THIS EFFECT YOU?

Yeah, I'm off topic, but this topic was started off-topic, and is really going nowhere. One group of loud-mouthed people are disagreeing with another group of loud-mouthed people. Well, whoopidy-fucking-do!

Uninfomed people have already said enough about this shit. And let's face it, we are all uninformed. All we have to ride on is the word-of-mouth of our press, so let's stop sitting here and sucking each other's dicks while we act like we know what is best for the world.

The thing that pisses me off about these little rebel-wannabe disadent posers is that most of the little losers have never even been to New York, much less out of their hometown. But hey, they have an opinion, so we all need to hear it. Boo-Hoo. Why the fuck do they feel the need to say something when there are millions of people in New York, and in Afghanastan who they are not hearing?

Well eurocat, like I said, what you are saying sounds very similar to what was said by that kid who flew the little airplane into the building here in Tampa. And, have you noticed that I don't remember the kid's name -- oh yeah, it was Charlie Bishop. Hehe, a gear turned in my head -- Anyway, my point is that you aren't the first to be saying this stuff, and you won't be the last that the majority of the world disagrees with.

You are right in some respects, but the way you are laying it out is wwwaaayyyy too simplistic. This is evident by the statement of what comes around goes around. Maybe you should come on here saying what America should do instead of moaning and whinning about what America did, or did not, do. That's the difference between the way those guys on the planes think, and the way I think. Oh - That, and I wouldn't want to kill people. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Irene Manor (edited 02-21-2002).]

[JoBlo]

Read my previous **** NOTE TO EVERYONE **** in this thread for why this topic is now closed.