Who was *****happy***** that Russell lost to Denzel???

[movieDUDE68686]

I personally love a beautiful mind and liked russell crowe's performance, but I hate that snobbish bastard. It could have killed him to of cracked a fucking smile at the SAG awards!
I loved Denzel's Performance in Training Day at least 30x's more then Russell's. I hate arrogant people, and he is just soooo damn full of himself. "RUSSELL AIN'T GOT SHIT ON ME!!!" <training day quote "king kong ain't got shit on me!">

Who else here was happy to see that nasty little bastard lose? hahaha!

[notchreturns]

I like Russell, and even though he gave a better performance than Denzel, I'm still happ Denzel won.He got major snub's for Malcolm X and The Hurricane.

[CriticalBill6966]

here's what I though about it.

http://www.joblo.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/005024.html

The awards fucked up in year's past and they fucked up again this year.

Sure Crowe is a prick and I hate him as much as you do...but he was more desserving of the oscar then Denzel.

They gave it to him to shut him and many other's up.

His award for Training Day is a joke just as Crowe's for Glaidator. Each of the actors should have won in the previous year when nomminated.

[actressgirl_05]

I think that Russel Crowe is a good actor, but he is WAY to stuck up. I am so glad that Denzel won (I've never seen Training Day, but I've read some good reviews). If any of those actors deserved it, it was him. I think that Russel Crowe has unjustly been nominated the last two years (Tom Hanks should have won last year...He's the best actor ever). I'm glad that some one finally aggrees that Crowe is a fucked up asshole who needs a labotamy.

[Scrunch]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by actressgirl_05:
I think that Russel Crowe is a good actor, but he is WAY to stuck up. I am so glad that Denzel won (I've never seen Training Day, but I've read some good reviews). If any of those actors deserved it, it was him. I think that Russel Crowe has unjustly been nominated the last two years (Tom Hanks should have won last year...He's the best actor ever). I'm glad that some one finally aggrees that Crowe is a fucked up asshole who needs a labotamy.</font>
Well. Gosh.

The irony is that Russell Crowe comes off as a jerk to people that get in his face. His demeanor around other people in the industry seems very genuine to me. I mean the comments that he made that we couldn't hear said to Jennifer Conneley and to Halle Berry... he looked very genuine when we spoke to them.

However I read an interesting story today that makes me thing that no - Denzel is the total asshole.

Apparantly at the luncheon Russell who had never met Denzel walked up to introduce himself and extended a hand to Denzel. Denzel gave him a brush off.

Russell should have gotten the Oscar last night.

[The Other]

Well, Russell Crowe and Denzel Washington do know each other. They co-starred together in the film VIRTUOSITY back in 1995, but if that's true about Denzel, then that makes me not like him even more.

[BakeTheMooCow]

Denzel deserved to win. And I'm glad he did.

Please stop spreading rumors about how the actors behave in their private matters. It's none of your fucking business.

[Kami]

Asshole that he is, the Oscar is titled Best Performance by an Actor in a Leading Role, right? It's not a Mr. Nice Guy award. And I agree that RC's Gladiator Oscar was a joke. They should have asked him to give it back so he could get this one.

And you all have to admit that Crowe didn't give the least hint that he was disappointed once the name was read. He smiled immediately and it looked genuine to me. And movieDUDE, don't you think your little fantasy Training Day quote is saying Denzel is arrogant?

[Muha]

i like russell crowe and i think hes a great actor and a cool guy.

he may be an ass, but thats better than a person who talks behind other people's backs.

id rather have a person come up to me and tell me they dont like me then talk behind my back.. thats just fucking cowardly.


2 thumbs up for russell crowe

[jackson13]

Im very happy R.C. didnt win. In fact, I'da been happy if anyone other than him won. I cant stand the guy, in film or real life, simple as that.

[Professor Falk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">

The irony is that Russell Crowe comes off as a jerk to people that get in his face. His demeanor around other people in the industry seems very genuine to me. I mean the comments that he made that we couldn't hear said to Jennifer Conneley and to Halle Berry... he looked very genuine when we spoke to them.

However I read an interesting story today that makes me thing that no - Denzel is the total asshole.

Apparantly at the luncheon Russell who had never met Denzel walked up to introduce himself and extended a hand to Denzel. Denzel gave him a brush off.

Russell should have gotten the Oscar last night. [/B]</font>


Personally, I tend to agree about Crowe being a good guy. As long as you don't cross him or try to be officious with him, he is, by all accounts, a good fellow. I was genuinely impressed by his actions with Halle Berry, in congratulating her. Could you possibly give us a link or some sort of heads-up about where you read the account of this lunch room incident, because I really tend to doubt it. I don't doubt you read this, I just doubt the report's veracity, especially since the two of them already worked together. I've never read or heard about Denzel behaving in that sort of unprofessional manner.



[This message has been edited by Professor Falk (edited 03-25-2002).]

[dicaprio_travolta_man]

Russell Crowe is not an asshole and I support everything he has done! The guy at the BAFTA's deserved what he got, and the guy in the restroom is a freak that I would of given the snub too as well. Good for you, Russell! I don't see how anyone could call the guy an asshole if they don't know him personally? You guys that are talking shit about Russell only know what you have read in the god damn paper, or the stupid internet. Did it ever occur to you that some of the stories are true and that some are complete bullshit? I mean from what I have seen of Russell he is a nice guy, first of all smiling and hugging Halle Berry after she had won the Oscar, then shaking the hand and saying congratulations too Denzel Washington. Then of course you have the big congratulations that Russell gave Jennifer Connelly, Ron Howard, and Akiva Goldsman. According too me the guy has a good side and a bad side just like the rest of us. I disappointed but still happy that Denzel finally won a Best Actor Oscar, even though anyone in their right mind knows that Russell gave the much better performance. And Scrunch, I highly doubt that what you read was true. I mean Denzel is not the kind of guy that would just totally blow somebody off. From what I have seen/heard Denzel is a very friendly guy, and also a very funny guy. A dramatic actor with a good sense of humor! Now, that's what I like too see.

[This message has been edited by dicaprio_travolta_man (edited 03-25-2002).]

[Alf-Life]

I would agree with the Russel Crowe stories *maybe* beign exagerrated... and the guy in the bathroom/restroom/toilet must have been a prick if he went and basically admitted to the media that he is a dirty bastard who should have washed his hands (even despite beign excited)... HOWEVER, please check up on Google how Mr.Crowe behaved at the BAFTAs... getting his hired muscle to handle the 50-something year old BBC BAFTA director for shortening his speech (cut due to time restraints) and then telling him he would "make sure you never work in Hollywood" accompanied by all manner of cursing, shows that he is pretty damn stuck-up and full of himself... even to the point of trying to give himself a bad-boy-of-Hollywood image. Pretty pathetic, really. Although I don't know the guy, and, as was stated above, the Oscars aren't for Mr.Nice-Guy awards, but for acting ability... although his "acting" towards other people in the run up to the Oscars probably forfeited the Oscar to Mr.Washington to avoid controversy. Oh well, what comes around...

[Indyjjjj]

Denzel seems to me to be the real asshole. Russell does seem to be the genuine person that only comes off as an asshole because maybe he doesn't like the pomposity off Hollywood and all the bullshit it serves up. Maybe he feels out of place. I'd trust the guy alot more than a person like Denzel. Jovial people like Denzel usually are the ones try to steal the spotlight and think they're #1 and backstab to get to the top. Denzel is the asshole. Russell is the better human being. Don't trust that smile!

[inglourious basterd]

Has anyone wondered why we have generalized celebrities to be the two-dimensional characters we perceive them to be? Like in this situation, we believe Denzel to be "good" and Russell to be "bad". As mentioned in the story above (which I do not doubt), it is probably a homogenation of both ideas. I take news of celebrities with a grain of salt these days. Afterall, arent they just schmoes who are trying to live normally as well? Perhaps, in the end, that is that what causes our intrigue in them.

[This message has been edited by psudoazn (edited 03-26-2002).]

[Scrunch]

http://msnbc.com/news/729086.asp

Have at it. Interesting. I thought I saw Virtuosity but don't recall it at all. I think my husband saw it with a friend, not me. He swears I saw it.... *shrugs*

[This message has been edited by Scrunch (edited 03-26-2002).]

[dicaprio_travolta_man]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Indyjjjj:
Denzel seems to me to be the real asshole. Russell does seem to be the genuine person that only comes off as an asshole because maybe he doesn't like the pomposity off Hollywood and all the bullshit it serves up. Maybe he feels out of place. I'd trust the guy alot more than a person like Denzel. Jovial people like Denzel usually are the ones try to steal the spotlight and think they're #1 and backstab to get to the top. Denzel is the asshole. Russell is the better human being. Don't trust that smile!</font>

Could you give me some insight as too why you think Denzel is an asshole? I can't understand how anyone could call Denzel an asshole? Do you watch TV? http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif But, seriously give me some reasoning please.

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dicaprio_travolta_man:
Could you give me some insight as too why you think Denzel is an asshole? I can't understand how anyone could call Denzel an asshole? Do you watch TV? http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif</font>

My question for you is why you believe everything on TV.. (See my extended rant above). I dont think he is an asshole, but I do not think that he is Gandhi either...he is just Denzel -- a good actor.

[Kami]

Thanks for the article! That one had a great amount of scoops, although the Russell Crowe bit makes it seem like it could be all bullshit. I've seen Virtuosity and why RC would need to "introduce" himself to Denzel is just funny. Shows how reporters and photographers will see one small minor thing and turn it into the rumor of the week. I thought this was haaaaaha!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> “What makes a mind beautiful?” the reporter asked.
“Is that what they taught you in journalism school?” Crowe asked. “How to rephrase movie titles?”</font>

That rules.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Nicole politely chatted and danced with each one. It was as if she were auditioning new partners. One thing you’ve got to say for those Aussies: they sure bounce back.</font>

*sniff* I thought she was going to win Best Actress then tell the world she was in love with Ewan McGregor and could he please go up on stage so they could sing Come What May... Sorry, I'll go lie down now.

[dicaprio_travolta_man]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by psudoazn:
My question for you is why you believe everything on TV.. (See my extended rant above). I dont think he is an asshole, but I do not think that he is Gandhi either...he is just Denzel -- a good actor.</font>

I don't belive everything I hear on TV. Never have, never will. Too really answer your question though I will repeat something I said in an earlier post, but use the name Denzel instead of Russell: I belive Denzel has a good side and a bad side just like the rest of us.

[Mr.B]

I Don't Think Denzel deserved the Oscar for this performance,Russell was so much better but just because he's such an jackass and because he won next year they gave it to Denzel(an afro american).It's all political bullshit at the ACADEMY.

[Andrew Tom]

Since I think the talk has gone a bit off topic, I'd like to say that I, for one, wasn't happy that Denzel won. Denzel has done many great roles, but this one wasn't one of them. I thought he overplayed it and that Russell's John Nash was more believable and is the role that Russell will be remembered for.

Just ask yourself, will people in 10-15-20 years remember Russell's John Nash performance or Denzel's Cop performance?

[Professor Falk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Scrunch:
http://msnbc.com/news/729086.asp

Have at it. Interesting. I thought I saw Virtuosity but don't recall it at all. I think my husband saw it with a friend, not me. He swears I saw it.... *shrugs*

[This message has been edited by Scrunch (edited 03-26-2002).]</font>

Gracias, Scrunch, Thanks for the link. That's not exactly Pulitzer material there... Worth reading just for Alan Cumming. I've always liked him, and anybody w/ the balls to dis 800 Lb. Gorilla Joan Rivers deserves my applause.

[Professor Falk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Andrew Tom:
Since I think the talk has gone a bit off topic, I'd like to say that I, for one, wasn't happy that Denzel won. Denzel has done many great roles, but this one wasn't one of them. I thought he overplayed it and that Russell's John Nash was more believable and is the role that Russell will be remembered for.

Just ask yourself, will people in 10-15-20 years remember Russell's John Nash performance or Denzel's Cop performance?

</font>

That's probably true. I also think people will remember that Russell Crowe and Denzel Washington were two of the best actors of their time, and both were Oscar winners. There's a certain rough justice in all of this. Al Pacino owns an Oscar. It's not for Godfather, Part II as it should be, but he has one. How many people think Sidney's is from In The Heat of The Night, I wonder? He wasn't even up that year. There is really no complaint in that, because the five men who beat him out are one of the richest Best Actor fields in the history of the award: Warren Beaty for Bonnie and Clyde (one of the seminal moments in 20th Century American film, and a personal fave of mine), Rod Steiger (who won), Sidney's co-star in In The Heat..., Paul Newman in Cool Hand Luke, Dustin Hoffman in The Graduate and Spencer Tracy (who had died nine months before, so he got a sympathy nomination, with a Great Career Recognition twist...). Newman came up short here and for The Verdict, but eventually won for The Color of Money. Most of the time people have a roughly correct number of Oscars, just not always for the things they deserve them for. All I can say is this: Denzel and Russell are both fabulous actors, and I always look forward to seeing either of them. The fact that they're both Oscar winners now, seems exceedingly right and just to me.

[Delmore Schwartz]

Denzel Washington has always struck me as an asshole. But, then so has Russell. Just not all the time, either of them.

I remember a few years back when Denzel was up for best actor, and when asked his chances of winning he stated, very arrogantly that when one looked at the feild he was a shoo-in.

I guess some actors need huge ego's to get by in their proffesional life.

Even though Russell can be an asshole, he still should have won. At the end of the day it's a best actor award, not a best human being award.

But maybe Russell will learn a valuable lesson in humility from this?



[This message has been edited by Delmore Schwartz (edited 03-26-2002).]

[Jaylee]

Denzel & Russell are mates... good mates, and have been so for some years. RC's first 'Hollywood' film was The Quick and the Dead. Soon after filming this he worked with Denzel on Virtuosity. Russell has much respect for the man, as does Denzel for RC... so that story about Denzel brushing Russell off is bullshit!

Here in Australia an Oscar clip was played from the red carpet... the clip shown was Denzel being interviewed by an Australian reporter. He was asked about his friendship with Crowe, and Denzel said that they were great friends, and had been since Virtuosity, and went on to praise Russell as an actor and his nominated ABM performance.... then Denzel winked and added, "but Russell already has one (an oscar)!"

I know RC wasn't pissed that he lost to Denzel. A lot of people may feel that RC was the best actor in 2001, myself included... but it was time for Denzel to be honored... and rightly so! RC understands how it works, and I'm sure will be nominated again... but I personally feel that Russ should now have two little Oscars - one for The Insider the other for ABM. Oh well...

Here is something I found about Denzel & Russ:

On Conan O'Brien's show in 1995, Russell told the very funny story about his screen test for the movie. He and Denzel did a scene from the film where a wire cage separates them. Russell says that on the second take, "the very first word I said, this little piece of spittle comes out of my mouth and it winds its way, very athletically, through the wire fence and goes onto Denzel's mouth. I've just met the guy, you know? Now, see, 99 percent of actors would have just been, like, out of there. He just stayed in there cause he knows it's my screen test, the camera's on me." Denzel stayed cool until after the scene was over. But as soon as the director said cut, Denzel freaked out and started frantically wiping his mouth. Afterwards, "he looked at me very seriously and goes, 'You know, I love the taste of warm saliva in the morning.'

---------------

The fact that they're both Best Actor Oscar winners now, seems exceedingly right and just to me, too!

~Jaylee

[ColinM]

My answer would be both. It's good because Denzel Washington is one of the best actors working today, if not the best. He deserves the honor and the award was a long time coming. But it's bad simply because he doesn't actually deserve the award. Russell Crowe deserved it more, and I can think of a few other actors that gave a better performance than his in Training Day.

He doesn't actually deserve it, but since the Best Actor Oscar stopped going to the actual best actor of the year very long ago, I don't mind that Denzel got it.

[Scrunch]

OK. Very interesting. This chick who wrote that column I posted the link to... she's been writing a lot of crap recently.

Ok... before anyone gives me shit and asks me why I read these things? Grain of salt baby, grain of salt.

I do not belive half of what I hear. I do believe that behind most (not all but most) stories there was some minor molehill that got turned into a giant mountain. I also think that I usually can tell the difference between total garbage and not.

Apparantly this woman is total garbage. I actually just sent her an email http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif This is the same woman who reported that Russell crowe got pissed off at the guy who didn't wash the piss off his hands in the bathroom before trying to shake his hand.

Sounds like this woman is way way off her mark here. I need to see virtuosity now.

[This message has been edited by Scrunch (edited 03-26-2002).]

[the_sneaker]

I'm with you guys. Even though Russel Crowes performance was Oscar calliber, the guy didn't deserve to get it after his "little" incident. I think if he wouldn't have been so big headed and pretty much chewed out that one dude, he would've gotten the award. But, I still do like him. And Denzel deserved the award.

[notchreturns]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mr.B:
I Don't Think Denzel deserved the Oscar for this performance,Russell was so much better but just because he's such an jackass and because he won next year they gave it to Denzel(an afro american).It's all political bullshit at the ACADEMY.</font>

I beleive it's AFRICAN AMERICAN not afro american!!

[wolferock]

Crowe is a great actor, but he really did need a humility check and realize that he's not all that and a bag of chips.

He says bad things about everyone around him and people praise him for his 'boldness and honesty'. That's really, really sad. Because there really are a lot of people out there who are sincere, genuine, loving people who get along with those around them.

People skills - it really is a rare talent!

[jdagnese]

How Crowe acts in public has nothing to do with acting! C'mon!

If Penn decided to attack another photographer during another run for the Oscar, I wouldn't give a SHIT. Just let me judge him based on his acting.

But' then agian, I also think Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame, and have no problem with OJ and LT being in it.

[Jasonite]

*L* Sign me up for this thread, Denzel's 10 times the actor Russell Crowe is.

J

[SteveSzyk]

Yea Denzel! I hate Russel Crowe eith all my heart, and Denzel is a bteer actor all around. His performance in Training Day was better than any other performance nominated.

[dicaprio_travolta_man]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SteveSzyk:
Yea Denzel! I hate Russel Crowe eith all my heart, and Denzel is a bteer actor all around. His performance in Training Day was better than any other performance nominated. </font>

Bah Hum Bug!!!!!

[TheMovieMinor]

It was pretty even. Both Denzel and Russell should have won, but whatever.

[Scrunch]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TheMovieMinor:
It was pretty even. Both Denzel and Russell should have won, but whatever.</font>
*chuckles* Sounds almost like Pairs Ice Skating...

[The Heart Collector]

Denzel's performance is a cool performance in the vein of SCARFACE. He was equally as good as Crowe.

[Delmore Schwartz]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jasonite:
[b]*L* Sign me up for this thread, Denzel's 10 times the actor Russell Crowe is.

You are entitled to your opinion, but Washington has repeated himself in many a role, Crowe has yet to do that. Washington's only great performances were Hurricane and Training day. He aint half the actor crowe is.


Some one mentioned Sean Penn before. I really (upon reflection)would like to have seen him win. Sean Penn has been overlooked for far to long.

[This message has been edited by Delmore Schwartz (edited 03-27-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Delmore Schwartz (edited 03-27-2002).]

[Scrunch]

Well.. thought I'd post this quote as a wrap up of the tangent this topic took the other day. This was from MSNBCs Scoop... same column I posted from before:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Thanks to all those kind — as well as the not-so-kind — e-mails from readers pointing out that Denzel Washington and Russell Crowe worked together in the 1995 film “Virtuosity.” Monday’s column should have said that Crowe was trying to say hello, not introduce himself, to Washington when he got the brush off. . . . . </font>

The rest of the article has a big bit on how many are upset with Julia Roberts over her overemotional comments when Denzel won. They feel she should have been less disrespectful of the other nominees and their fans.

[dicaprio_travolta_man]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Scrunch:
Well.. thought I'd post this quote as a wrap up of the tangent this topic took the other day. This was from MSNBCs Scoop... same column I posted from before:
The rest of the article has a big bit on how many are upset with Julia Roberts over her overemotional comments when Denzel won. They feel she should have been less disrespectful of the other nominees and their fans. </font>

I thought she looked hot that night. But, she still really pissed me off with the "I love my life" comment. Very unprofessional. Come to think of it, she was kind of disrespectful too the Crowe fans, Smith fans, Wilkinson fans, and the Penn fans. She shouldn't have said what she said.

[Scrunch]

Well, I was happy to hear that she's getting flack for her demeanor because her campaigning in general irritated me and her comments made me gag. I think that might have been when my husband even got up and left the room totally disgusted.

As for hot... her dress and hair were awful. She had so much class last year when she won. This year personally I thought she looked like trash.

[Irene Manor]

Okay, it is like this.

Denzel Washington took a script that was the average run-of-the-mill bad cop routine and he made it fresh. Most of what is going on in that movie is Denzel ACTING. He was ad-libbing. The man is nothing like he is during the quick 2 hours of Training Day. He did a really good job in that movie. You may have not liked the character, which is what I am hearing from the specific complaints, but get over it! If Denzel wasn't acting you would have loved the character. See how that works?

Acting is about being someone you are not. Dezel Washington is nothing like Alonzo Haris. If you have some sort of evidence that he is -- please lay it on me. The man is a kind gentleman. So what if his niche is getting intense and yelling. Crowe's niche is looking the camera in the eyes. I'm over that!

As far as me being happy about Denzel winning. - I'm happy someone won. It gives us all a chance to discuss politics and talk shit.

[Scrunch]

Alonzo who?

I'm curious to hear about nice guy Denzel. I've always gotten the general impression that he's got a bit of an ego when he works.

[The Heart Collector]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Scrunch:
Alonzo who?</font>


His character in TRAINING DAY.

[jdagnese]

As for Julia's "I love my life" line, she's worked with Denzel before (on The Pelican Brief).
To my knowledge, she's never worked with Penn, Wilkinson, Crowe, or Smith.
Their friends.
It's as simple as that.
I'm not saying I agree with, I can just indentify with where it came from.
I don't know if she was a voting member of the academy this past year or not; but assuming she wasn't, I don't care what she says. Unless she was a member, in which case it's pretty obvious who she voted for and why.

[Jasonite]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Irene Manor:
Okay, it is like this.

Denzel Washington took a script that was the average run-of-the-mill bad cop routine and he made it fresh. Most of what is going on in that movie is Denzel ACTING. He was ad-libbing. The man is nothing like he is during the quick 2 hours of Training Day. He did a really good job in that movie. You may have not liked the character, which is what I am hearing from the specific complaints, but get over it! If Denzel wasn't acting you would have loved the character. See how that works?

Acting is about being someone you are not. Dezel Washington is nothing like Alonzo Haris. If you have some sort of evidence that he is -- please lay it on me. The man is a kind gentleman. So what if his niche is getting intense and yelling. Crowe's niche is looking the camera in the eyes. I'm over that!

As far as me being happy about Denzel winning. - I'm happy someone won. It gives us all a chance to discuss politics and talk shit. </font>

For once Irene, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

J

[Kami]

I hated her stupid "I love my life." comment too. It was so biased and what the heck does her life have to do with the Best Actor oscar? I loved it when Conan ribbed on her last night by making a video of people being asked everyday questions like, what time is it? or do you have mustard? and having the guys reply with, "Hmm.. I LOVE MY LIFE! Yes, we do." and stuff like that. Go Conan!

[Scrunch]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jdagnese:
As for Julia's "I love my life" line, she's worked with Denzel before (on The Pelican Brief).
To my knowledge, she's never worked with Penn, Wilkinson, Crowe, or Smith.
Their friends.
It's as simple as that.
I'm not saying I agree with, I can just indentify with where it came from.
I don't know if she was a voting member of the academy this past year or not; but assuming she wasn't, I don't care what she says. Unless she was a member, in which case it's pretty obvious who she voted for and why.</font>

They are friends. It was still disrespectful the way that she did it. Did Russell Crowe pout and do anything when his friend Nicole didn't win? No. He apparantly paused and said something very nice or calming or something to Halle Berry. I thought that moment with them on stage as he handed her the Oscar was so classy.

And yes, Julia Roberts is a voting member of the Academy. Apparantly once you win an Oscar you become one. So this was her first year as a voter. (Or is it nominated? I think you have to win to get in though.)

In general I think Oscar Campaigning is ugly and it sucks. But that's for another topic.

[jdagnese]

I suppose it was a little weird. But I don't know about all out disrespectful. I could have done without it, but I can see where it came from, that's all.
And as for Crowe treating the situation differently, they are two completely different individuals. That, and Crowe picks and chooses his moments to be 'disrespectful' as well. He's no angel. I think his moment with Halle had as much to do with congradulating her as it did helping her to get her shit together as she was obviously having trouble doing it herself.

[Scrunch]

That's the thing... everyone knew where it came from but I can't think of anyone else in the past going so overboard with something like this.

Agreed about Crowe. I didn't mean to imply he was a saint. I'm just comparing his demeaor on stage with Julia's.

I thought it was funny too that she flubbed her joke that she told. I wonder if that was her flub or the writers...

[jdagnese]

More than likely hers'.

[JimmyCrack]

i'm happy because russell crowe is a dick.

[od1]

Julia did nothing wrong, i have seen other presenters do the same thing, and before the winner can get on the stage, they kiss them. They're just trying to make something out of nothing. Wasn't Russell a voter also? And did you see the smile on Russells face when Julia called Denzels name? He knew! If they didn't already know, why would they have Julia as a presenter, and Denzel wins? Russell has work with Denzel before, and he knows he's good! Russell is a great actor also. Julie Roberts have been backing Denzel for many years, because she knows how talented he is! Denzel just worked hard, even with his past work. You folks are really something else! LOOK PEOPLE, ITS ONLY AN OSCAR! AND YOU CANNOT TAKE IT TO THE GRAVE WITH YOU! Love everyone like God loves you. This Oscar everyone is talking about, is only some idol that folks look at.

[movieDUDE68686]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by od1:
Julia did nothing wrong, i have seen other presenters do the same thing, and before the winner can get on the stage, they kiss them. They're just trying to make something out of nothing. Wasn't Russell a voter also? And did you see the smile on Russells face when Julia called Denzels name? He knew! If they didn't already know, why would they have Julia as a presenter, and Denzel wins? Russell has work with Denzel before, and he knows he's good! Russell is a great actor also. Julie Roberts have been backing Denzel for many years, because she knows how talented he is! Denzel just worked hard, even with his past work. You folks are really something else! LOOK PEOPLE, ITS ONLY AN OSCAR! AND YOU CANNOT TAKE IT TO THE GRAVE WITH YOU! Love everyone like God loves you. This Oscar everyone is talking about, is only some idol that folks look at.</font>

I think julia is a fake. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif I fake person, http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif fake actress, and the "lovely" personality is just fake in general... http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif
I LOVE MY LIFE... DENZEL WASHINGTON!!! http://www.joblo.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif AND it could not of killed her to not jump on his back. (hmmm.... i wonder who julia wanted to win???" or could have that sly bitch read the wrong name on purpous!!! jking

[movieDUDE68686]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by od1:
Julia did nothing wrong, i have seen other presenters do the same thing, and before the winner can get on the stage, they kiss them. They're just trying to make something out of nothing. Wasn't Russell a voter also? And did you see the smile on Russells face when Julia called Denzels name? He knew! If they didn't already know, why would they have Julia as a presenter, and Denzel wins? Russell has work with Denzel before, and he knows he's good! Russell is a great actor also. Julie Roberts have been backing Denzel for many years, because she knows how talented he is! Denzel just worked hard, even with his past work. You folks are really something else! LOOK PEOPLE, ITS ONLY AN OSCAR! AND YOU CANNOT TAKE IT TO THE GRAVE WITH YOU! Love everyone like God loves you. This Oscar everyone is talking about, is only some idol that folks look at.</font>

I think julia is a fake. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif I fake person, http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif fake actress, and the "lovely" personality is just fake in general... http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif
I LOVE MY LIFE... DENZEL WASHINGTON!!! http://www.joblo.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif AND it could not of killed her to not jump on his back. (hmmm.... i wonder who julia wanted to win???" or could have that sly bitch read the wrong name on purpous!!! jking

[arto_j]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by od1:
If they didn't already know, why would they have Julia as a presenter, and Denzel wins? </font>

Julia was a presenter because she won best actress last year, so she was presenting best actor this year. And the reason Denzel won was that the majority of the voters considered his performance superior to those of RC, Will Smith, Sean Penn and Tom Wilkinson.
It annoys me very much that the press, that has been invented to give me information, has turned into something that just feeds incredible bullshit about people like Russell Crowe, or any celebrity for that matter. And if they happen to have some sort of a temper, the dumb-ass journalists are right up his ass exaggerating everything the man does.
If most of the voters thought that Denzel was the best, fine, he was the best. The SAG thought that Russell was better, those were different voters. If you had 20 more award shows, the voters would be different and again, vote differently.
I don't understand why some people seem to have this need to call someone an asshole, having never met him, or probably never reading a completely truthful story of him. First Russell was an asshole. Then someone called Denzel an asshole. Then someone really smart came to the conclusion that they're both assholes. I wouldn't say that either of them are assholes, they're idols and actors. There are stories told about these celebrities, and some are true, some are not, and of course people draw conclusions of these reports.
I was hoping for Russell to win, but I wasn't pissed when Denzel won. Julia Roberts was probably high. On Denzel-mania. She wanted him to win. Fine. The fuck-up she made, was to make it so public and I really hated the I love my life comment but I got over it, 'cause Denzel had a really cool and good speech, which prooved to me that he's a good guy.
Most likely, both Denzel and Russell will be nominated in the future, and will also win. Now, I notice that I've written really lot here, so I'll leave some room for others too.

[Jaylee]

arto_j --- I could not of said that better myself!

The press have it in for RC... simple as that. The guy is not nearly as 'bad' as some like to think - and I could defend him till I'm blue in the face but most people will still believe the bullshit they read in those shitty papers.

Over the years I have read some printed reports about RC that are so laughable... because they are so NOT true... and I often wonder what other people think when they read this stuff, and judging from some things I have read here in the last 6 months, I guess many people innocently believe the stories written about a celebrity such as Crowe. Sad really. Folks, you are being feed bullshit - maybe it's time to change your diet!

Unless the guy actually comes out himself and talks about his faults & fuck ups - I don't believe a damn thing I read about him. I know how much mud the media likes to fling when reporting on Russell Crowe - and believe me the guy is far from the asshole they make him out to be.

I'm NOT saying the guy is perfect - he is far from it - but lets stick to the truth people and at least try to give him a fair go.

~Jaylee

[Dunch]

I got an idea... FUCK RUSSEL CROWE UP HIS FUCKIN ASS!!!!!!

Denzel became Alonso in Training Day and he took it all the way. He deserved that award more than anything. Crowe did a great job, but Denzel did and equally great job, and you know what? Denzel went to all those shitty slums from the movie and he talked to all the real people in the same situations as those in the movie. That has nothing to do with Oscars...

but TWO THUMBS UP FOR DENZEL... HOW DO YOU LIKE DEM APPLES?

[Jaylee]

Dunch -- GET A GRIP!

I'm sure you could of said what you wanted to say without being such an ASS yourself.

Denzel DID do a great job on TRAINING DAY and though I thought Crowe SHOULD of won for ABM I wasn't too disappointed to see Denzel win instead - he does seem like a great guy and well deserving of a best actor Oscar - just not for 2001.

~Jaylee

[FilmBuff84]

Russell was robbed! His performance is A Beautiful Mind was far better than Denzel's turn in Training Day. All he did was act superior and boast like a jerk, apparently not much of a stretch. Russell's role was far more demanding and a brilliant portrayal. So he may have an attitude, but he's just being himself and that's endearing. He doesn't care what people think. Now i'm not saying that Denzel is a bad actor, but he didn't deserve the win. And the actor's are supposed to be awarded on their role they play in the film, so who gives a s**t what they're like in the media. It's the role they were nominated for. At least A Beautuful Mind won best film, director and supporting actress. Russell deserved it this year.

[Irene Manor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by FilmBuff84:
Russell was robbed! </font>

At least it was by a Robin Hood.

[Muha]

Quoted By Jaylee:
Dunch -- GET A GRIP!
I'm sure you could of said what you wanted to say without being such an ASS yourself.


awww... dont rip on the man.


Quoted By Jaylee:
Denzel DID do a great job on TRAINING DAY and though I thought Crowe SHOULD of won for ABM I wasn't too disappointed to see Denzel win instead - he does seem like a great guy and well deserving of a best actor Oscar - just not for 2001.

Crowe was in a film that won all of these oscars because it was made for it. howard directed it because he knew if he did it right with crowe, connelly, and harris, he would win oscars. the thing tho is that crowe wasnt that good... the movie was overrated and should not have won. however, i do like russell crowe and i think his best work to date still is his portrayal of maximus in gladiator. bud white from l.a. confidential is right behind tho.

on the other hand, i ented training day last night and watched it. i must say it isnt a superb film like memento or LOTR:FOTR, but washington did a great job portraying a corrupt cop. i must say ethan hawke did a fabulous job as well. i was really surprised by his great job in training day.


russell crowe will be back in the far side of the world and it will be sweet... hell win there.

great job by denzel and ethan

[movieDUDE68686]

goo denzel

[SweetEnLow]

I'd like to know why everyone says that Russell Crowe is a dick.

Has anyone ever actually seen him say or do anything rude? Not what is read in the tabloids, but actually from his own mouth or his own actions. I can't really say that I actually keep on this stuff all that much, so I'm kinda curious.

The only thing that I've read was that he pushed some producer or director because he edited out a part of his speech? I don't even know if it's true though, I don't believe all of that stuff that I read.

I just wanted to know if you guys had any real proof. I know that he does look grumpy sometimes when you see him at the award shows and other events.

I think he's a great actor though and while I do love Denzel, I think that Russell deserved that oscar IMO.

[Dunch]

It takes an asshole to know an asshole and being the asshole I am I will tell you Russel Crowe truly is a piece of shit. Oh yeah, A Beautiful Mind sucked. I'd rather watch fucking Mallrats.

[SweetEnLow]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dunch:
It takes an asshole to know an asshole and being the asshole I am I will tell you Russel Crowe truly is a piece of shit. Oh yeah, A Beautiful Mind sucked. I'd rather watch fucking Mallrats.</font>


And what is wrong with Mallrats ??? http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Delmore Schwartz]

Kudos to all who said they hate Julia Roberts. I have hated her for years and she is fake, in every way. She should have more respect for the other nominees, definately.

She is a cunt.

[Big Screen Fan]

What a shame that people with absolutely NO knowledge of a persons true identity feel they are somehow qualified to judge them as fake, or dicks, or awesome or sweet.

Guess what? We have no idea. These are not relationships in our lives...these people are far removed from any of us. Could it possibly be we have all been duped?

And..If Julia is fake, lets make up a new Oscar. How consistent.

[Delmore Schwartz]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Big Screen Fan:
What a shame that people with absolutely NO knowledge of a persons true identity feel they are somehow qualified to judge them as fake, or dicks, or awesome or sweet.

Guess what? We have no idea. These are not relationships in our lives...these people are far removed from any of us. Could it possibly be we have all been duped?

And..If Julia is fake, lets make up a new Oscar. How consistent.</font>


You have made a good point. However, we all have instincts, and if we listen to them we can get a gut feeling about people we have merely observed, but do not actually know.

In the case of actors there is always alot of subtext we can pick up on (so much of their true character comes through in their work,as well as public events like the oscars) if one is paying attention, that is.

[movieDUDE68686]

Im still happy for denzel and to this very day, I rub it in my friends face that little old russell went home empty handed...anyways I think that russell deserved a beautiful minds performance over his stupid and dumb performance that he won, in gladiator!

what do u all think bout dat?

[ColinM]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by movieDUDE68686:
anyways I think that russell deserved a beautiful minds performance over his stupid and dumb performance that he won, in gladiator!

what do u all think bout dat?</font>

Oh I think you are definitely right. If the Oscars weren't so screwed up, Denzel would've won years ago so they wouldn't have had to give him a symphathy win this year, and Crowe wouldn't have gotten his symphathy win last year (Tom Hanks would've rightfully won), so the Academy would have given Crowe his deserved win this year.

But the Academy blows, so...

[herculeez]

I'm much happier now that Denzel has won the best actor award. I think he deserved it more than Rusell...and Russel is a fucking PRICK!
http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

[EBastard]

People,being a fan of both actors,lets get one thing straight:IF MR.CROWE DIDN'T SCREW UP BY THROWING A FIT ABOUT HOW LONG HIS ACCEPTANCE SPEACH SHOULD BE AT ANOTHER AWARD SHOW(I forgot which one),MAYBE DENZEL WOULDN'T HAVE WON! DID YOU GUYS EVER THINK OF THAT PLAYING A PART IN RUSSELL LOSING?! DID YA?! DID YA?! DID YAAAAAAA?!?!?!?!?!

*Rips shirt,pounds chest,yells violently like an ape and pounces through nearest window*

[This message has been edited by EBastard (edited 04-02-2002).]

[The Other]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ColinM:
Oh I think you are definitely right. If the Oscars weren't so screwed up, Denzel would've won years ago so they wouldn't have had to give him a symphathy win this year, and Crowe wouldn't have gotten his symphathy win last year (Tom Hanks would've rightfully won), so the Academy would have given Crowe his deserved win this year.</font>

I don't think Tom Hanks would have won last year even without Crowe. The academy has never given an actor any more than two LEAD Acting Oscars before. For Hanks to score his third it will have to be for an AMAZING, OUTSTANDING, SPECTACULAR performance where he has no real competition. I think any of the other nominees could have won besides Hanks or Crowe.

But, it's sad that they gave Russell Crowe his sympathy win for losing it for his amazing performance in THE INSIDER.

[Irene Manor]

I'm happy that Denzel won, but I know the other nominees would have liked to have won.

[Scrunch]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by movieDUDE68686:
Im still happy for denzel and to this very day, I rub it in my friends face that little old russell went home empty handed...anyways I think that russell deserved a beautiful minds performance over his stupid and dumb performance that he won, in gladiator!

what do u all think bout dat?</font>I think one of my biggest pet peeves about the internet is when people don't spell out "you." I know in online games people have to type fast but I hate it there too. But on a message board? Total pet peeve. Ugh.

[ColinM]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by EBastard:
People,being a fan of both actors,lets get one thing straight:IF MR.CROWE DIDN'T SCREW UP BY THROWING A FIT ABOUT HOW LONG HIS ACCEPTANCE SPEACH SHOULD BE AT ANOTHER AWARD SHOW(I forgot which one),MAYBE DENZEL WOULDN'T HAVE WON! DID YOU GUYS EVER THINK OF THAT PLAYING A PART IN RUSSELL LOSING?! DID YA?! DID YA?! DID YAAAAAAA?!?!?!?!?!</font>

Actually, this occured to a lot of people. I remember when this first happened, there were a lot of people saying that it might hurt Crowe's chances. I don't think it did, though. I think he lost just because the Academy didn't want to give it to him two years in a row.

And, the Other, you are probably right about that too, but that only goes to prove my "the Academy are a bunch of political assholes" theory. They aren't interested in giving the award based on the actual performances, only by politics. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/mad.gif

[This message has been edited by ColinM (edited 04-03-2002).]

[movieDUDE68686]

what do u all think bout dat?[/b][/QUOTE]I think one of my biggest pet peeves about the internet is when people don't spell out "you." I know in online games people have to type fast but I hate it there too. But on a message board? Total pet peeve. Ugh.

[/B][/QUOTE]

um http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif u http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif are scary

[Scrunch]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
um http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif u http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif are scary
</font>
*shudders*

You play online video games? Or just a lot of chat rooms in AOL?

Mind you I don't mean this in a bad way at all. At least I don't mean it as a personal attack but there are certain abbreviations that are common on the net nowadays that really just irk me like nails on a chalkboard.

Maybe I'm just old http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

[This message has been edited by Scrunch (edited 04-03-2002).]

[Stripes]

Black People. HA HA HA HA HA

[sloopyfan]

The Producer of the show so Russel doesn't kick his ass too. Like the Australian guy that Russell beat up.

[movieDUDE68686]

I think that last year Tom Hanks was totally robbed of a win. He kept the movie going for 2 hours by himself, versus Russell Crowe who went around chopping peoples heads off.... I still don't get that.... and I don't care what anyone says Denzel did not win because of the whole "black" thing, he won because of his extraordinary work. And russell was not even as good as Tom Wilkinson or Sean Penn I think! whoopdi fucking doo! He played himself....a crazy genious!

[JCPhoenix]

The Oscars shouldn't be about personality...even if someone was the worst person in the world, this is about the PERFORMANCE not the person...

my basic thoughts as to why crowe lost out to washington:

what's going against crowe: crowe has been rude (at least according to the media, which is probably wut influences the academy anyway), they don't want to give an oscar to someone two years in a row unless they are TOTALLY deserving, and of course the BAFTA incident propelled this all to a new high.

what was going FOR washington: he's polite (again supposedly by the media, but again, that's wut the academy listens to anyway...after all they are people and it's not like they don't read the news etc), he was "cheated" out of an oscar some years back, he had a solid performance and the big one....

to put it frankly, he's black.

this year's oscars were based on politics, and public relations really. they were pressured by the public to give it to black actors/actresses because of the claims of racism. to tell the truth, those claims have absolutely ZERO ground. they said that barely any black actors ever get nominated/win. First of all, there are MUCH less black actors/actresses working in the film industry than white. Second, black actors usually take other roles, like comical roles (Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock), action roles, etc. Not to mention there aren't that many famous black actors currently anyway...(and the ones there are usually play roles that are not geared for Oscars). It's a matter of chance really. Supposedly 1/5 of the actors in the U.S. are black. That means supposedly, there will be about 1 black nominee in the actor/actress category. Not to mention, that only means a 1/5 chance of winning as well.

Politics was all this year was about. I haven't seen Halle Berry's performance, so I can't say about hers, but for Washington and Crowe, it was definitely the pressure that decided the win.

(also, Sidney Poitier getting an honorary oscar this year, and whoopi goldberg hosting...it seems fitting to them to make this a record breaking year as well)

by the way, i thought denzel washington had a great performance, but russell crowe had a much better one. I loved ABM, and to those who say it was just geared to get Oscars, why the hell do u think that? so basically any movie that is drama will be attacked by you as "just geared to get Oscars"???
they did it cuz they loved the story, and i love the story as well. sure they took out controversial stuff in the movie, but it helps the movie flow...the movie wouldn't be the same with the controversial crap in it, it wouldn't have that almost magical flow to it.

Also, I wasn't really a big fan of Crowe until ABM, so i'm not really biased. I like L.A. Confidential, but not just becuz of Crowe, but becuz of Spacey and Pearce as well. Other than that, I wasn't a big fan of his.

By the way, I'd have loved to see Moulin Rouge take home the big win this year, but I'm satisfied with ABM getting it.

[Irene Manor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Scrunch:

um http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif u http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif are scary
</font>
*shudders*

You play online video games? Or just a lot of chat rooms in AOL?


Actually, that would be "Or just lots of chat rooms in AOL?" unless, of course, you are refering to one specific lot, or group, of chat rooms - In that case you would say a lot.

[Irene cowers down ready to get smacked on the head Laurel and Hardy style]

[Professor Falk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JCPhoenix:
Politics was all this year was about. I haven't seen Halle Berry's performance, so I can't say about hers, but for Washington and Crowe, it was definitely the pressure that decided the win.

</font>

This is about the 60th time I've read a rehash of this same song. Unless and until they can offer some objective proof of this alleged behind the scenes collusion, I'd really like to see people lay off of it.

[vegeta3120]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Indyjjjj:
Denzel seems to me to be the real asshole. Russell does seem to be the genuine person that only comes off as an asshole because maybe he doesn't like the pomposity off Hollywood and all the bullshit it serves up. Maybe he feels out of place. I'd trust the guy alot more than a person like Denzel. Jovial people like Denzel usually are the ones try to steal the spotlight and think they're #1 and backstab to get to the top. Denzel is the asshole. Russell is the better human being. Don't trust that smile!</font>

What in the world are you talking about? On what basis are you making such a judgement?

[Irene Manor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by vegeta3120:
What in the world are you talking about? On what basis are you making such a judgement?

</font>


I'm with vegata on this one.

Here is my question to everyone:

Do you think Denzel Washington fans would be on here shouting "racism" had he lost? I don't think we would be, so I can't understand why you people are making a big deal over the race thing -- It seems to me that this is what is importnat to you, but it really isn't that important to anyone else. My other theory is that this is the only way you can justify Crowe's loss. It is sort of sad to me.

[EBastard]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Irene Manor:

I'm with vegata on this one.

Here is my question to everyone:

Do you think Denzel Washington fans would be on here shouting "racism" had he lost?</font>
I know I wouldn't.I didn't see A Beautiful Mind,but I saw enough clips to see that Russell Crowe turned in a damn good performance himself.

[Professor Falk]

I've written this before in another thread, but I'll repeat it here: if the Oscars had done what the Golden Globes did, award Denzel his richly deserved Best Actor award for playing Rubin Carter in The Hurricane two years ago, then given Crowe the award for this year, everybody would be one hell of a lot happier now. Except Kevin Spacey.

[Irene Manor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Professor Falk:
everybody would be one hell of a lot happier now. Except Kevin Spacey.</font>


LOL!

Why can't anyone see this Someone always loses -- So why make a big conspiracy out of it. That is something it is not. if Sean Penn would have won, you all would be saying it was because he played, well, you know -- A special abilities person.

Someone ALWAYS loses - That doesn't mean that the Illuminati is calling the Freemasons to dispatch the Enlightenment triad to infiltrate to CIA in order to influnce the FBi who holds ground over the Scientologists who hold a powerful seat on The Acadamy of Motion Pictures who decided this year that they would put phase x of thier plan into action.

Take a sleeping pill, people!

[Delmore Schwartz]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Professor Falk:
I've written this before in another thread, but I'll repeat it here: if the Oscars had done what the Golden Globes did, award Denzel his richly deserved Best Actor award for playing Rubin Carter in The Hurricane two years ago, then given Crowe the award for this year, everybody would be one hell of a lot happier now. Except Kevin Spacey.</font>

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!

Balance would have been maintained and an oscar travesty (in the form of Spacey's win) would have been averted.



[This message has been edited by Delmore Schwartz (edited 04-05-2002).]

[movieDUDE68686]

http://www.joblo.com/ubb/eek.gif Denzel did not win because of the whole racism thing... along with Halle Berry... The won because of their performances, I don't people can get past that! Did anyone see Training Day? Denzel gave a hell of a performance, I did not see Monsters Ball but I only heard how wonderful halle was in it. I think that the media blew the whole racism of oscars up just in time for the academy to make the decision on the two better performances.

[Irene Manor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by movieDUDE68686:
http://www.joblo.com/ubb/eek.gif Denzel did not win because of the whole racism thing... along with Halle Berry... </font>


Shoot movieDUDE, if that guy who plays Mini-Me won best actor, the people who were fans of one of the people who lost would be saying it was because he was short.

I think the phiosophy of our time is: If you don't agree with something, it must be because a vast group of people have conspired against your ideals. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Woe is me!

It all reminds me of the Sourh Park episode with the elfs stealing the socks for some reason.

[This message has been edited by Irene Manor (edited 04-06-2002).]

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by movieDUDE68686:
http://www.joblo.com/ubb/eek.gif Denzel did not win because of the whole racism thing... along with Halle Berry... The won because of their performances, I don't people can get past that! Did anyone see Training Day? Denzel gave a hell of a performance, I did not see Monsters Ball but I only heard how wonderful halle was in it. I think that the media blew the whole racism of oscars up just in time for the academy to make the decision on the two better performances. </font>

The Academy has never been about quality. It has always been about image. It is for that reason that the red carpet is the only thing remembered from the awards. This year, the black/white issue was the hot topic. It was obvious with Whoopi exploiting the issue, with Sidney Poitier conveniently getting a lifetime acheivement award (I didnt say that he didnt deserve it, I am just referring to the timing), the interesting fact that 3 african-americans were nominated in acting categories, and with Denzel and Halle winning their respective awards. I can tell you with near-mathematical certainty that this wasn't a coinscidence.
Had the Academy not tried to make this the year of the afro-american, people would have probably given their picks a bit more seriousness. Unfortunately, these are the same people who gave Crowe the Oscar as Maximus and Julia Roberts the award for Erin Brockovich (those were both given as "body of work" awards rather than for their original roles; to an extent, it worked for Denzel in the same way this year).
The Oscars have always been about awarding image rather than films.

[This message has been edited by psudoazn (edited 04-07-2002).]

[Professor Falk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by psudoazn:
I can tell you with near-mathematical certainty that this wasn't a coinscidence.
</font>

I'd like to see that.

[The Other]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by psudoazn:
The Academy has never been about quality. It has always been about image. It is for that reason that the red carpet is the only thing remembered from the awards. This year, the black/white issue was the hot topic. It was obvious with Whoopi exploiting the issue, with Sidney Poitier conveniently getting a lifetime acheivement award (I didnt say that he didnt deserve it, I am just referring to the timing), the interesting fact that 3 african-americans were nominated in acting categories, and with Denzel and Halle winning their respective awards. I can tell you with near-mathematical certainty that this wasn't a coinscidence.</font>

You are so right about that.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Unfortunately, these are the same people who gave Crowe the Oscar as Maximus and Julia Roberts the award for Erin Brockovich (those were both given as "body of work" awards rather than for their original roles; to an extent, it worked for Denzel in the same way this year).</font>

You're right about this as well. They gave the Oscar to Russell Crowe for his performance in GLADIATOR (when he gave far more superior turns in L.A. CONFIDENTIAL, THE INSIDER before that) because people thought he should have at least been nominated for L.A. CONFIDENTIAL, and probably should have won for THE INSIDER. Of course by the time they got to a real worthy performance (A BEAUTIFUL MIND) he already had won and they weren't going to give him another one so soon. I think he'll nab a second one. That'll be it because no actor has ever one any more than TWO Best Actor Oscars.

As for Julia Roberts, you're right about her as well. That was her third nomination (of course it still baffles me why she was nominated for such an unworthy performance in PRETTY WOMAN). Plus she is that whole "America's Sweetheart" bull shit. People love her and wanted her to win. I remember the day after the Oscars last year and I want to school and some of my non-movie fan friends were like all happy cause Julia had won. The academy would have faced HELL from the public if she had lost.

By the way, it's Russell Crowe's birthday today (April 7). He's 38.

[This message has been edited by The Other (edited 04-07-2002).]

[movieDUDE68686]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Irene Manor:

Shoot movieDUDE, if that guy who plays Mini-Me won best actor, the people who were fans of one of the people who lost would be saying it was because he was short.

I think the phiosophy of our time is: If you don't agree with something, it must be because a vast group of people have conspired against your ideals. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Woe is me!

It all reminds me of the Sourh Park episode with the elfs stealing the socks for some reason.

[This message has been edited by Irene Manor (edited 04-06-2002).]</font>

http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Amen 2 That http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[JCPhoenix]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Professor Falk:
I've written this before in another thread, but I'll repeat it here: if the Oscars had done what the Golden Globes did, award Denzel his richly deserved Best Actor award for playing Rubin Carter in The Hurricane two years ago, then given Crowe the award for this year, everybody would be one hell of a lot happier now. Except Kevin Spacey.</font>

I agree with this perfectly, and to respond to what u said earlier about my post about the oscars and politics -i don't have proof, and there'd be no way i can ever prove it. however, and this is a matter of opinion of course, i do believe that most people thought crowe's performance was better (this was my opinion as well), and even many of my friends who love denzel washington thought he had many other better turns, and that crowe deserved the oscar this year more than him.

washington had a very unique performance, and a truly good one, but he has had much better...and of course, the oscars are also about image as well...they don't want their reputation tarnished...

btw, i can't understand why haley joel osment was totally ignored in what i thought was an even better performance than his one in sixth sense ---his performance as David in A.I. totally stunning, even if you didn't like the movie.

[Professor Falk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JCPhoenix:
I agree with this perfectly, and to respond to what u said earlier about my post about the oscars and politics -i don't have proof, and there'd be no way i can ever prove it. however, and this is a matter of opinion of course, i do believe that most people thought crowe's performance was better (this was my opinion as well), and even many of my friends who love denzel washington thought he had many other better turns, and that crowe deserved the oscar this year more than him.
</font>


Okay, that's fair. What I've objected to in these threads is the apparent belief that some people have, that the fact that Denzel and Halle both won on this particular night, is part of some big orchestrated plan, including Whoopi Goldberg hosting and Sidney winning a lifetime achievment award. That is utterly absurd, and that is what I'm challenging people to prove. If Denzel won for a less than best performance, and because people in the Academy resented Crowe's recent antics and also didn't want to give him a second Best Actor Oscar, it's unfortunate, but also (again, unfortunately) par for the Academy course. Look at recent history: last year, Crowe wins (according to many people here) because the Academy thinks he's overdue. This puts them in a corner when he's up again this year. Two years ago, Denzel wins the Golden Globe and many other critics awards for The Hurricane, seems a shoo-in for Best Actor, but a late whispering campaign about the veracity of the script costs him support from the controversy-shy Academy and they give his award to Kevin Spacey. Tom Hanks wins for Philadelphia, a film with a movie-of-the-week quality script, (over Laurence Fishburne's brilliant work in What's Love Got To Do With It), because Hollywood feels guilty (which they should) for not addressing AIDS before. Al Pacino beats Denzel's performance in Malcom X, as a makeup for him being jobbed out of his Oscar for his seminal performance in Godfather II. They have, for a long time now, been running around trying to give make up awards to people for previous snubs. At worst, this was the just latest of those.



[This message has been edited by Professor Falk (edited 04-07-2002).]

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Professor Falk:
I'd like to see that.</font>

Brain... hurts... Please... No... More... http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Professor Falk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by psudoazn:
Brain... hurts... Please... No... More... http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif</font>


I agree. In the end, this is all silly and a waste of time. Let's take stock: like I've written elsewhere, there is a rough justice to all this. Denzel has an Oscar. Russell has an Oscar. Al Pacino has an Oscar. It's nitpicky to say that they have them for the wrong films. They probably do, but it's even all across the board.

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Professor Falk:

Okay, that's fair. What I've objected to in these threads is the apparent belief that some people have, that the fact that Denzel and Halle both won on this particular night, is part of some big orchestrated plan, including Whoopi Goldberg hosting and Sidney winning a lifetime achievment award. That is utterly absurd, and that is what I'm challenging people to prove. .]</font>

Before I comment, I would like to make it clear that I do not hold any grudge against the way that the Oscars resulted. I am just discussing it simply for the sake of discussion.

I think that you have a very valid point, professor. (Im curious..are you really a professor?) In all honesty, although I was pretty frank with my opinion, I cannot prove that there was a conspiracy to laud African-Americans in this year's awards. The reason is because it would be ludicrous to assume that it happened as such. More realistically, I believe that they were ironically influenced by the media -- whom, as a group, they despise.

I do not believe that celebrities are different from any other individual. Yes, they may be involved with the craft, but that does not necessarily make them all strongly opinionated. I believe that, like the mainstream audiences, they were influenced by clever and crafty tricks of the media as well.

In truth, I had a feeling that an awards like this would occur inevitably. Since Denzel lost to Spacey in 1998? for his role in the Hurricane, the racism card has since been shown on the table. I believe it is for that reason that the Academy (either consciously or subconsciously) decided to make this (not to be crude) the year of the African-American.

I understand that Denzel and Halle have had consistent acclaim for their performances in their films, but where the hell did Will Smith come from? Furthermore, why was it that they chose to award Poitier this year as opposed to other years.

I have not had the time to confirm this, but isn't it true that there were two lifetime acheivement awards instead of the normal one award this year? (Please excuse me if this is incorrect information).

It was obvious to me that this idea of racial equality was a major theme of the evening. Given the recent history of the awards and the buzz that has surrounded it, can it all be coinscidence? I realize that there were a variety of other factors that had swung the votes to its final conclusion; however, I feel that the race issue did have some sort of effect in the final result.

[This message has been edited by psudoazn (edited 04-08-2002).]

[inglourious basterd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Professor Falk:

I agree. In the end, this is all silly and a waste of time. Let's take stock: like I've written elsewhere, there is a rough justice to all this. Denzel has an Oscar. Russell has an Oscar. Al Pacino has an Oscar. It's nitpicky to say that they have them for the wrong films. They probably do, but it's even all across the board. </font>

The reason I replied to you was because you had a valid point that I wanted to address. Furthermore, I realized that my response wasnt really helpful in illustrating my viewpoint. Again, this is not an issue I feel passionately about, but it has, nonetheless, been an interesting topic in comparison to the typical conversation on the boards.

[The Other]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by psudoazn:
Since Denzel lost to Spacey in 1998? for his role in the Hurricane</font>

Kevin Spacey won in 2000 for the 1999 year over Denzel Washington. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Professor Falk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by psudoazn:
The reason I replied to you was because you had a valid point that I wanted to address. Furthermore, I realized that my response wasnt really helpful in illustrating my viewpoint. Again, this is not an issue I feel passionately about, but it has, nonetheless, been an interesting topic in comparison to the typical conversation on the boards.</font>


Yes, it has. I can't say what was in anybody's mind and we'll all probably never know. All I can say, again (I've written of this in other threads), is that after watching Tom Hanks win for Philadelphia, then for Forrest Gump, leaving superior performances by Fishburne and Freeman standing by the road, a lot of us thought it was a cinch that Denzel would win for The Hurricane. When he didn't, after that cheap whispering campaign and carping from police groups, and instead the statuette was handed to Kevin Spacey for (I'm sorry to everyone who liked his performance, but...) his annoying, mannered portrayal in American Beauty, it really started to seem like there would always be some excuse. I never felt it was a plot, and never just outright racism, I just thought they always managed to talk themselves out of doing what was right for some seemingly good reason that fell apart upon later examination. I honestly don't think anyone can have late momentum built for them in a a race of this kind, but a front runner can lose momentum. I think Denzel did in 2000, and I think Russell did this year. I'd really hate to think another theory that was floated, (that the Academy didn't want to give a non-American back-to-back Oscar wins) is true. That would suck as much as the other injustices I believe have occured.

I'm not a Professor, by the way. Prof. Falk was a character played by the hard workin' character actor Xander Berkely. I wonder if Professor Steve is a real Professor? http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif

[urbanlegend23]

Crowe obviously had the better performance, and now the Academy look like idiots for giving him an Oscar for GLADIATOR and not for a A BEAUTIFUL MIND.

On another side of things, Denzel deserves this award maybe just to make up for the amount of times hes been snubbed in the category.

[The Other]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by urbanlegend23:
On another side of things, Denzel deserves this award maybe just to make up for the amount of times hes been snubbed in the category.</font>

Well Denzel has been nominated a total of 5 times, twice in the the SUPPORTING ACTOR category for which he won the second time and 3 times in the LEAD ACTOR category for which he won the 3 time. So, he only lost the BEST ACTOR Oscar twice. I mean shit now he's got 2 Oscars and still can have the moniker "Academy Award Winner Denzel Washington." I mean Al Pacino lost it 4 times in the lead catefory and 3 times in the Supporting Actor category before he picked up BEST ACTOR for, get this, SCENT OF A WOMEN.

So, Denzel shouldn't complain and neither should anyone else. Even if he didn't win BEST ACTOR for Training Day, he's still an Oscar winner and some of the greatest actors before and after him have never and will never win any. So there ya go.

[Scrunch]

Bingo!!!

From MSNBC:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Two-time Oscar-winner Jodie Foster has shocked and outraged some Hollywood potentates by comparing the Academy Awards to a game of bingo. The actress defended her buddy Russell Crowe for not winning a second Oscar by saying that the highly coveted award isn’t about acting.

“WINNING THE OSCAR is no measure of performance,” Foster told the Sydney Morning Herald. “It’s just bingo. You get five names that are thrown in a hat. One name is going to get pulled out and somebody goes ‘bingo.’ You just wish it was your name.”

“I can’t believe she said that,” gasped one Hollywood producer. “It’s incredibly disrespectful to an institution that has been very good to her. This is going to upset a lot of people.” The producer, however, asked not to be identified for fear of angering Foster.

An Academy spokeswoman had no comment, and Foster’s spokesman said he was unaware of the actress’s remarks.

But Oscar expert Tom O’Neil wasn’t surprised. “Jodie once erupted into a giggle fit backstage at the Golden Globes and when some reporter asked her why, she said she always finds it really funny when she wins one of these awards,” says O’Neil, who runs GoldDerby.com. “She’s always had these things in perspective and doesn’t lust after them like some of Hollywood’s notorious schemers. . . . But in Hollywood, there’s something holy and sacred about the Academy Awards, and to speak against them is blasphemous.”</font>

I mean we all argue about who should win or shouldn't win but in all honesty... what does it all really amount to in the end?

[Raena]

Well if the Oscars is a game of Bingo, Jodie Foster's odds have been quite nice to her.

Didn't she use to date Russell Crowe? Seems like a match to me. . .

I have to say this though, one time a few years ago, someone asked Jodie what her favorite flick of the year was. She answered (paraphrasing)"In The Company Of Men, but what do I know?"

She's got good taste in flicks. I'll give her that.

[The Other]

She never dated Russell Crowe, they have just been good friends and that's all.

But Jodie's right, they never give the Oscar to the person who gave the Best Performance in the LEAD acting categories.

If you notice there is only upsets in the SUPPORTING acting categories because they actually go to the person who gave the Best performance. Jennifer Connelly and Jim Broadbent gave the Best Supporting performances of the year and, yes, I've seen most of the other nominees and the one's I haven't I know aren't going to be as good.

I know a lot of people think Kate Hudson should have one and still do. But if you were to see Pollock you would know that Marcia Gay Harden deserved it. She was excellent. Hudson was to reserved, to casual for a category that demands you to be fierce and in the face of the audience and shit and demand them to take notice of you. Like I said, Kate was more reserved and calm. But, I wouldn't have minded if Hudson had won because I think she was great. Take the 1997 Oscar ceremony for the films released in 1996, Lauren Becall has won almost every major award in sight (I think mostly because she's a screen legend who had never won any of those awards) then the Oscars came and Kevin Spacey read Juliette Binoche's name. She gave the better performance, plus she was in the better film that went on to win Best Picture. So, it helps if you're film is liked better as well. I'm not saying that Almost Famous wasn't liked as much as Pollock because Almost Famous is liked more than Pollock, I'm just stating another reason that helps you win, is if you're in the better film.

[This message has been edited by The Other (edited 04-08-2002).]

[movieDUDE68686]

out of the two...

Denzel Washington Russell Crowe


who has a more promising career?

[The Other]

Well, Denzel already has a promising career. He's already up to the $20 million paycheck range and a two-time Academy award winner.

And so does Russell Crowe, he got a $15 million paycheck for A BEAUTIFUL MIND and is an Oscar winner.

So, yanno, they both already have one.

[movieDUDE68686]

I think that Denzel has a more promising future due to the fact that he was never in a baaad movie, and he has some real talent...not saying russell doesne't

[Professor Falk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by urbanlegend23:
Crowe obviously had the better performance, and now the Academy look like idiots for giving him an Oscar for GLADIATOR and not for a A BEAUTIFUL MIND.

On another side of things, Denzel deserves this award maybe just to make up for the amount of times hes been snubbed in the category.</font>


That's been known to happen. I've been highly critical of Tom Hanks winning his two Oscars, but that's because of the films and his performances in them. Since he won back-to-back Oscars for (IMO) subpar work, he's turned in two excellent performances in Saving Private Ryan (my problems with that film are mainly concerned w/ it's absurd mawkish script, not the almost uniformly [you suck, Ed Burns http://www.joblo.com/ubb/frown.gif] excellent performances and mind boggling realism.), and Castaway. However, by giving him those previous Oscars, the Academy has painted itself into a corner, and now will set precedent if they give him another, which they may not want to do. It's all really silly. It's like Tom ate his ice cream before dessert, and now he doesn't have any.


[This message has been edited by Professor Falk (edited 04-09-2002).]

[kbossom]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Scrunch:
Bingo!!!

From MSNBC:

I mean we all argue about who should win or shouldn't win but in all honesty... what does it all really amount to in the end?</font>

It means bankability. In the latest issue of EW most nominees asking fees for a film doubled if not more. Just because of a nomination, more if they win. All the actors and actresses have the talent or I dont believe this thread would last this long. It is a very small group that decides who wins or loses. Sorry no MTV Award here. Yes, Denzel gave a powerful performance. But compared to what? His past films? He did something different in his career. A non-repentent man who did it his way. This man can act, congratulations to him. For Russell, of course we know he can act, but his best? Romper Stomper! First flick released in U.S. with him starring, no budget and extemely brutal. Check this film out.

[Delmore Schwartz]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Irene Manor:

LOL!

Why can't anyone see this Someone always loses -- So why make a big conspiracy out of it. That is something it is not. if Sean Penn would have won, you all would be saying it was because he played, well, you know -- A special abilities person.

Someone ALWAYS loses - That doesn't mean that the Illuminati is calling the Freemasons to dispatch the Enlightenment triad to infiltrate to CIA in order to influnce the FBi who holds ground over the Scientologists who hold a powerful seat on The Acadamy of Motion Pictures who decided this year that they would put phase x of thier plan into action.

Take a sleeping pill, people!</font>

I knew the Illumunati were in on the oscars fix!

I could smell it.

We're through the looking glass people.

[Irene Manor]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by psudoazn:
I can tell you with near-mathematical certainty that this wasn't a coinscidence
Ask yourself how this statement is different than when cops pull over black people in upscale neighborhoods because they don't think they should be there?
"3 black people lost in Beverly Hills -- That's no coincident."

Hehe - I lifted that scenario from a 90210 ep. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

But for real -- What is the difference?

[idealdiscountdude]

I just saw Training Day tonight, and I must say, I didn't really like it that much. I'd give it a 5.5/10.

Ethan Hawke was better IMO than Denzel in the film. I truly thought Denzel's performance was extremely over the top and not OSCAR worthy. Tom Wilkinson deserved the OSCAR, Russell Crowe and Sean Penn were more deserving than Denzel. (I have yet to see Ali, so I dunno about Will Smith).

I am a bigger fan of Denzel than of Russell, however this year, Russell was far more deserving than Denzel.

[movieDUDE68686]

I think that Tom Wilkinson was awesome in In The Bedroom (3rd fav of the year) but Denzel gave such a powerful and terrifying performance... he outshined all the rest... and i think it was due time for him to win again after his other snubs: Malcholm X, and The Hurricane

[Irene Manor]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by idealdiscountdude:
I truly thought Denzel's performance was extremely over the top and not OSCAR worthy. </font>


Without agreeing or disagreeing with you, I want to add that Denzel's biggest praise comes from the fact that he improvised his script -- It was originally written with his character being straight-laced, but Denzel went ghetto with it -- And since Denzel has never done ghetto before, he was praised for transforming the movie.

[The Other]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by idealdiscountdude:
I just saw Training Day tonight, and I must say, I didn't really like it that much. I'd give it a 5.5/10.

Ethan Hawke was better IMO than Denzel in the film. I truly thought Denzel's performance was extremely over the top and not OSCAR worthy. Tom Wilkinson deserved the OSCAR, Russell Crowe and Sean Penn were more deserving than Denzel. (I have yet to see Ali, so I dunno about Will Smith).

I am a bigger fan of Denzel than of Russell, however this year, Russell was far more deserving than Denzel.</font>

I COMPLETELY AGREE! I'd rate the movie about a 5/10 and I thought Ethan Hawke was better than Denzel in his respective role. I thought Denzel was over-the-top and NOT Oscar-worthy as well.

The only difference is, I'm a bigger fan of Crowe's than Washington's. In fact TRAINING DAY is the only movie of Denzel's I've ever seen. So I'm not really a fan at all since I didn't like this movie or his performance.

But, I have not seen IN THE BEDROOM, I AM SAM, or ALI yet. So I can't comment on their performances. But out of the two front-runners (Crowe and Washington), by far, Crowe is better. At least in my opinion.

[This message has been edited by The Other (edited 04-14-2002).]

[movieDUDE68686]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The Other:
I COMPLETELY AGREE! I'd rate the movie about a 5/10 and I thought Ethan Hawke was better than Denzel in his respective role. I thought Denzel was over-the-top and NOT Oscar-worthy as well.

The only difference is, I'm a bigger fan of Crowe's than Washington's. In fact TRAINING DAY is the only movie of Denzel's I've ever seen. So I'm not really a fan at all since I didn't like this movie or his performance.

But, I have not seen IN THE BEDROOM, I AM SAM, or ALI yet. So I can't comment on their performances. But out of the two front-runners (Crowe and Washington), by far, Crowe is better. At least in my opinion.

[This message has been edited by The Other (edited 04-14-2002).]</font>


oh my god! denzel was sooooooooooo good in training day and much better then ethan hawke! dezel kept you guessing the whole movie on what he was gonna do next..!

[movieDUDE68686]

Training Day got worse Reviews then A Beautiful Mind (no shit) but here are reelviews reviews of the 2... maybe you call all use these to post up stuff:


(i'll put more reviews by major critcs on later)


training day:

Arriving in theaters two weeks late but otherwise unscathed is Antoine Fuqua's Training Day, the story of an idealistic young cop who gets a hard lesson about life in the streets from a veteran. Shining with the star power of Denzel Washington (playing the most morally ambiguous role of a fruitful career) and Ethan Hawke, Training Day crackles with energy. It's two hours long, but seems a lot shorter. However, as good as most of the movie is, it could have been better had the ending evidenced more careful scripting and less of a reliance upon contrivances.
This isn't in any way a "typical" undercover cop motion picture. Fuqua has publicly admitted as much, stating that, although this was not his debut feature (he previously helmed The Replacement Killers and Bait), it was the first directorial effort that meant something to him and was, at least in part, drawn from his memories of growing up in Los Angeles. Training Day is about something - it's not a series of generic gunfire and chase sequences. It asks the compelling question of whether it's possible to effectively fight crime without descending to the level of the criminal. Can an idealist be a warrior and protector? On the streets, what's the difference between good and evil? These questions have added relevance in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attack, when the need for vengeance as a means of closure threatens to blind us to all other concerns.
Ethan Hawke is Jake Hoyt, an ambitious L.A. cop who wants to make detective. The fastest route to that position is to join the elite team headed by legendary undercover figure Alonzo Harris (Denzel Washington). To that end, Jake has been given one day to prove to Alonzo that he's ready for the job. At first, things don't go well - Alonzo scoffs at Jake's by-the-book attitude. "You've got to hear the street, smell it, taste it," he admonishes. Then, later, "This is street justice. It takes a wolf to catch a wolf... It's ugly, but it's like that." So Jake starts to learn - smoking some LSD-laced weed after Alonzo tells him, "A good narcotics officer must have narcotics in his blood." But things soon get out of hand, with Alonzo breaking the law more often than upholding it, and Jake begins to wonder what kind of hell he has lost himself in.
Ethan Hawke does a solid job in a thankless role. He's the film's "everyman" - the bland, honorable guy we're supposed to identify with. Not surprisingly, Washington has the plum role, stealing scene after scene as he utters gritty dialogue and glares into the camera. After playing righteous men in The Hurricane and Remember the Titans, Washington finds himself completely at ease in a part that has him leaning towards the other side of the moral compass. Other than the two leads, there are no significant parts, although Scott Glenn, Tom Berenger, Dr. Dre, and Snoop Dogg have supporting roles.
The movie asks hard questions and rarely gives an easy answer. It's riveting and intense, with just enough action to satisfy those who enjoy that genre and enough substance to satiate viewers who are tired of the long litany of dumb motion pictures marching through multiplexes. Unfortunately, Training Day doesn't deliver the complete package. The last 15 minutes are full of cliches, contrivances, and smart characters acting dumb - all in the name of providing a "pat" conclusion. The disappointing climax is not enough to take Training Day off the recommendation list - the rest of the film is too strong - but it diminishes its impact.
It's rare these days that a movie being touted as a "contemporary action thriller" (Warner Brothers' words, not mine) can stand tall as a piece of social commentary. There's an almost Shakespearean quality about the construction of the narrative (at least until the final fifteen minutes), and Alonzo is the kind of charismatic, flawed individual that the Bard would have enjoyed penning a tale about. For those of us who don't really care about the Elizabethan playwright, all this means is that Training Day represents a mainstream motion picture that can be seen and appreciated as more than "mindless entertainment".

a beautiful mind:
A Beautiful Mind is a beautifully written, effectively acted, and meticulously crafted effort that is likely to remind many viewers of a simple axiom: a movie doesn't have to be groundbreaking to be compelling. Originality is a prized commodity because there is so little of it in Hollywood these days, but, when filmmakers do such a skillful job with familiar elements, their efforts should be acknowledged. Affecting without being overtly manipulative, A Beautiful Mind tells the life story of John Nash, a Nobel prize winner who struggled through most of his adult life with schizophrenia. As directed by Ron Howard, this becomes a tale not only of one man's battle to overcome his own disability, but of the overreaching power of love - a theme that has been embraced by films as diverse as It's a Wonderful Life and Rocky.
A Beautiful Mind may have been developed to be a crowd-pleaser as well as a tear-jerker, but genuine craft is evident in the way the pieces were assembled. The movie never becomes cloying, nor does it threaten to drown us beneath an outpouring of false sentiment. This is no Patch Adams, filled with saccharine-coated artificiality. The characters are effectively drawn and their plight touches an emotional chord. A Beautiful Mind offers a catharsis without insulting the intelligence. Sadly, too few movies these days can make a similar claim. This film argues that there are still instances when Hollywood-produced, big budget movies are worth a viewer's investment of time and money.
A Beautiful Mind purports to tell the true story of Professor John Nash (Russell Crowe), but, while the gross facts may be accurate, one must expect embellishment of the details. Narrative features are not constrained by the same rules that limit documentaries. We first meet Nash as a student at Princeton in 1947. He is brilliant but erratic - a mathematical genius who lacks social skills. He is aided in making it through those difficult years by his roommate, Charles (Paul Bettany). Years later, following an astounding breakthrough that revolutionizes economics, John is teaching at M.I.T. and doing code-breaking work for a shady government agent, William Parcher (Ed Harris). It's at this time that John meets, falls in love with, and marries Alicia (Jennifer Connelly). But his happy world soon starts to crumble. John is afflicted with paranoid hallucinations; by the time he is taken to a mental hospital under the care of the mysterious Dr. Rosen (Christopher Plummer), he is diagnosed as having an advanced case of schizophrenia.
For Russell Crowe, the winner of last year's Best Actor Oscar, this is another opportunity to broaden his range. Crowe successfully buries his personality beneath Nash's, allowing the character to come to the fore (a necessity, considering the actor's current load of off-screen baggage). Much as he did in The Insider, Crowe shows no difficulty inhabiting the skin of a real-life individual who has a stronger intellect than physique. And, when it comes to the sequences depicting Nash battling his demons, Crowe's performance is utterly convincing. Meanwhile, Jennifer Connelly is luminous as Alicia. Although the showier performance belongs to Crowe, it is Connelly's complex work, depicting a woman torn by love for and fear of the same man, that elevates the film to a higher level. The actress was unjustly overlooked for Requiem for a Dream; hopefully, the Academy will not repeat that mistake. Solid support is provided by Ed Harris and Christopher Plummer.
A viewer certainly doesn't have to be a mathematical expert to appreciate what A Beautiful Mind offers, although those with a strong left-brain component may relate better to John Nash than right-brainers. The movie tosses mathematical theories and theorems in the audience's direction, but explains them simply and lucidly; no one is going to become lost or bored. A Beautiful Mind isn't about mathematics except as a symbol. It's about human frailty and the ability to triumph over it. Nash could just as easily be a doctor, a lawyer, or a construction worker and the essence of the story would not change.
The strength of the writing and production values elevate A Beautiful Mind far above "disease of the week movie" quality. At the core of the picture lies the relationship between John and Alicia, and the tribulations that the strength of their bond allows them to overcome. On one occasion, a friend asks Alicia how she can continue to stay with her stricken husband, and she replies with a succinct explanation that everyone who has ever been in love will understand. A Beautiful Mind defies the conventional Hollywood wisdom that love is passion and romance. For John and Alicia, it is painful, heartbreaking work. And, while hearts and flowers are great for a fantasy, this is the kind of expression of emotion that touches a deeper chord.

[ColinM]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by movieDUDE68686:
oh my god! denzel was sooooooooooo good in training day and much better then ethan hawke! dezel kept you guessing the whole movie on what he was gonna do next..!</font>

Agreed. Denzel was great in Training Day (not Best Actor great, but great nonetheless) and Ethan was just average. His Oscar nomination for that movie astonishes me. I mean...WHY???????

[movieDUDE68686]

Colin i sorta agree. Ethan Hawke was very good, most likely not Oscar Worthy [b/] but it was still good, but there is [B] NO Comparrison between Ethan's performance Versus Denzel's performance.

[movieDUDE68686]

Colin i sorta agree. Ethan Hawke was very good, most likely not Oscar Worthy [b/] but it was still good, but there is [B] NO Comparrison between Ethan's performance Versus Denzel's performance.

[Bobdroopy]

Jack Nickolson should have won

[APzombie]

Denzel was backed up by guns, cool clothes, ghetto car, and all the "funny" lines he said, the camera could not focus on him for more than 30 seconds without his opening his mouth, Crowe expressed so much with just his presence. That goes a long way (if not all the way). I think Denzels was good for his character, but the character wasn't half as interesting or half as well executed as Crowes John Nash. To be honest (not being racest) but i think the acadamy rigged it for Denzel because Crowe already won and there hasent been a african american actor winning the ocar since Cidney Portiey, they despritly needed viewers (this year had the least veiewers in the history of the oscors). I don't even think he should have been nominated for Training Day...

Crowe definatly gets my vote

[Jasonite]

*L* Geez. You probably thought his performance in Gladiator was Oscar-worthy too.


J

[This message has been edited by Jasonite (edited 04-17-2002).]

[The Other]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jasonite:
*L* Geez. You probably thought his performance in Gladiator was Oscar-worthy too.</font>

*L* Geez. You can't go a single post without using unnecessary sarcasm.

[Jasonite]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The Other:
*L* Geez. You can't go a single post without using unnecessary sarcasm.</font>

It's only unnecessary if there's no purpose behind it. So yes, it was necessary.

J

[This message has been edited by Jasonite (edited 04-18-2002).]

[movieDUDE68686]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The Other:
*L* Geez. You can't go a single post without using unnecessary sarcasm.</font>

the other, i totally agree! jasonite! answer the topic instead of making everyone mad!

[movieDUDE68686]

I forgot about the whole review posting thing...lol anyways here are joblo's:

TRAINING DAY: 7/10
CRITIQUE:
A pretty intense little movie with solid acting across the board, some ups, some downs and a thrilling ending, despite a couple of small flaws. I really enjoyed this movie because it followed two extreme characters and put them in situations which had me wondering about what I would do if I were in their place. The film gets right into the "dirty" side of, well...the dirt on the streets, and proceeds to teach the rookie cop (and us, the audience) how things really work down there. Of course, we're receiving this lesson from a man who has put away a lot of scum in his time, but the things he seems to be doing aren't exactly on the up-and-up either. And therein, lies the fun of the film. Do you agree that you yourself would need to break a few small laws in order to put away the people who break the really big ones? Well, as the film moves along, we're given two points of view in respect to this predicament, and to me, both sides made sense at some point or another. And you gotta give a lot of credit to the screenplay for that, the director, who builds the film up wonderfully (with the darkness of the day leading to the darkness in the script) and the two actors who deliver their parts in spades. Hawke, first off, because he rarely plays these "commercial" roles but does so perfectly here, with a vulnerable side which has you feeling for the bastard right off the top.

And Denzel, well, what can you say about Mr. Washington that hasn't already been said before? He comes through as per his usual high-level style here, and gives the audience a completely different side to his talent, of which, I personally would like to see more. He's nice, he's not so nice, he's smart, he's not so smart, he's caring and he's a dog all the way. The few problems that I did have with this film included the redundant nature of the whole thing at some point (okay, we get it...you have to be nasty in order to deal with these nasty people...move on) and this one really major "coincidence" which involved a bathtub, that saved the day for one character, but seemed a little too "convenient" for my taste. I also never really understood how Washington's character got out of a certain dire predicament, only to be seen driving his car in the very next scene. But obviously these small flaws didn't taint my overall enjoyment of this tense drama, a film that gets you right into the streets, into the nooks and the crannies, and into the moral dilemma which lies between the justice system and the day-to-day drug busts. See it if you want to wrestle with some of these issues yourself, see it if you want to see Denzel and Ethan strike up a palpable chemistry on-screen, and see it if you like holding on to your seat-handles real tight during a movie. In fact, see it for the scene in which Ethan Hawke plays cards with a host of gang-bangers alone...dang, now that's intense!
© 2001 Berge Garabedian

A BEAUTIFUL MIND: 9/10
A beautiful movie? You bet! Strange how a film could just start from a pretty basic angle, the one described in the plot lowdown above, and slowly begin to pull you into its world, engage you in its characters, and ultimately, captivate you completely by the film's end. As some of you may already know, I ain't one to break down in movies, but this baby had me chocking back the tears on more than one occasion. Damn you, Nash! So what did it for me in this film? Well, I guess you have to look at the entire production and to be honest, most everything just hit the right notes. The setup to the movie is a good one, the premise intriguing, the pace, surprisingly agile and to the point, the mood, not too "heavy-handed", the directing, just right, the score, vivid and inspiring, the writing and the dialogue, impressive and believable respectively and the acting...boy oh boy, Russell Crowe and Jennifer Connelly both deliver in spades and will certainly be awarded for their amazing performances. Crowe is apparently ready to give Tom Hanks a run for his money when it comes to consecutive Oscar nominations (Russell was nominated in 1999 for THE INSIDER and for GLADIATOR in 2000). Connelly is no spring chicken herself, but it's nice to see her finally starring in a mass-appeal film which allows her to spread the word on her solid acting chops to an even wider audience. You go, girl! And ultimately, it's the emotion between these two characters, the chemistry demonstrated on the screen, the undeniable love that one person can feel for another, that drives this movie to that greater level. I have to admit that I was technically enjoying the movie up until the halfway point, but I honestly couldn't say that I was expecting a much deeper involvement.

But the film shifts into extremely high gear once we cross that point, and every other scene after that, pulled me further into its mind. Credit goes out to both the director and the writer of this film for creating that sort of engaging emotional progression, and even more so, to the actors who deliver their characters in full three dimensions, with plenty of humanity in tow. And if you're wondering how anyone could really enjoy a film about a boring ol' mathematician, well, believe you me...I expected to be dulled to bits by this bio-flick, but the truth is that the movie really isn't about math or school or some government conspiracy. As corny as it sounds...it's about love, people! It's about a human being who despite being brilliant in one area of his life, is seriously incapacitated when it comes to other basic social functions. It's also about loving someone unconditionally, even with their faults, about helping those whom you cherish most, about developing enough trust to believe in someone and about the real power of love in your life. Yeah, even though this dude's a genius, he simply cannot do it all by himself. He needs help. Some people have greater abilities then others in certain fields, but they just aren't able to live a fully complete life, without the assistance, the love and the uncompromising dedicated support of people who love them for who they are. This is an uplifting story which manages to achieve the rare balance of being able to make people laugh, make people cry, make people think and make people feel, all in one movie. Inspirational to be sure, tightly-wound and secure with outstanding performances, this film is likely to please audiences all over the place. It's got a universal message with a big heart: love is king, ya'll!
(c) 2001 Berge Garabedian

[movieDUDE68686]

I forgot about the whole review posting thing...lol anyways here are joblo's:

TRAINING DAY: 7/10
CRITIQUE:
A pretty intense little movie with solid acting across the board, some ups, some downs and a thrilling ending, despite a couple of small flaws. I really enjoyed this movie because it followed two extreme characters and put them in situations which had me wondering about what I would do if I were in their place. The film gets right into the "dirty" side of, well...the dirt on the streets, and proceeds to teach the rookie cop (and us, the audience) how things really work down there. Of course, we're receiving this lesson from a man who has put away a lot of scum in his time, but the things he seems to be doing aren't exactly on the up-and-up either. And therein, lies the fun of the film. Do you agree that you yourself would need to break a few small laws in order to put away the people who break the really big ones? Well, as the film moves along, we're given two points of view in respect to this predicament, and to me, both sides made sense at some point or another. And you gotta give a lot of credit to the screenplay for that, the director, who builds the film up wonderfully (with the darkness of the day leading to the darkness in the script) and the two actors who deliver their parts in spades. Hawke, first off, because he rarely plays these "commercial" roles but does so perfectly here, with a vulnerable side which has you feeling for the bastard right off the top.

And Denzel, well, what can you say about Mr. Washington that hasn't already been said before? He comes through as per his usual high-level style here, and gives the audience a completely different side to his talent, of which, I personally would like to see more. He's nice, he's not so nice, he's smart, he's not so smart, he's caring and he's a dog all the way. The few problems that I did have with this film included the redundant nature of the whole thing at some point (okay, we get it...you have to be nasty in order to deal with these nasty people...move on) and this one really major "coincidence" which involved a bathtub, that saved the day for one character, but seemed a little too "convenient" for my taste. I also never really understood how Washington's character got out of a certain dire predicament, only to be seen driving his car in the very next scene. But obviously these small flaws didn't taint my overall enjoyment of this tense drama, a film that gets you right into the streets, into the nooks and the crannies, and into the moral dilemma which lies between the justice system and the day-to-day drug busts. See it if you want to wrestle with some of these issues yourself, see it if you want to see Denzel and Ethan strike up a palpable chemistry on-screen, and see it if you like holding on to your seat-handles real tight during a movie. In fact, see it for the scene in which Ethan Hawke plays cards with a host of gang-bangers alone...dang, now that's intense!
© 2001 Berge Garabedian

A BEAUTIFUL MIND: 9/10
A beautiful movie? You bet! Strange how a film could just start from a pretty basic angle, the one described in the plot lowdown above, and slowly begin to pull you into its world, engage you in its characters, and ultimately, captivate you completely by the film's end. As some of you may already know, I ain't one to break down in movies, but this baby had me chocking back the tears on more than one occasion. Damn you, Nash! So what did it for me in this film? Well, I guess you have to look at the entire production and to be honest, most everything just hit the right notes. The setup to the movie is a good one, the premise intriguing, the pace, surprisingly agile and to the point, the mood, not too "heavy-handed", the directing, just right, the score, vivid and inspiring, the writing and the dialogue, impressive and believable respectively and the acting...boy oh boy, Russell Crowe and Jennifer Connelly both deliver in spades and will certainly be awarded for their amazing performances. Crowe is apparently ready to give Tom Hanks a run for his money when it comes to consecutive Oscar nominations (Russell was nominated in 1999 for THE INSIDER and for GLADIATOR in 2000). Connelly is no spring chicken herself, but it's nice to see her finally starring in a mass-appeal film which allows her to spread the word on her solid acting chops to an even wider audience. You go, girl! And ultimately, it's the emotion between these two characters, the chemistry demonstrated on the screen, the undeniable love that one person can feel for another, that drives this movie to that greater level. I have to admit that I was technically enjoying the movie up until the halfway point, but I honestly couldn't say that I was expecting a much deeper involvement.

But the film shifts into extremely high gear once we cross that point, and every other scene after that, pulled me further into its mind. Credit goes out to both the director and the writer of this film for creating that sort of engaging emotional progression, and even more so, to the actors who deliver their characters in full three dimensions, with plenty of humanity in tow. And if you're wondering how anyone could really enjoy a film about a boring ol' mathematician, well, believe you me...I expected to be dulled to bits by this bio-flick, but the truth is that the movie really isn't about math or school or some government conspiracy. As corny as it sounds...it's about love, people! It's about a human being who despite being brilliant in one area of his life, is seriously incapacitated when it comes to other basic social functions. It's also about loving someone unconditionally, even with their faults, about helping those whom you cherish most, about developing enough trust to believe in someone and about the real power of love in your life. Yeah, even though this dude's a genius, he simply cannot do it all by himself. He needs help. Some people have greater abilities then others in certain fields, but they just aren't able to live a fully complete life, without the assistance, the love and the uncompromising dedicated support of people who love them for who they are. This is an uplifting story which manages to achieve the rare balance of being able to make people laugh, make people cry, make people think and make people feel, all in one movie. Inspirational to be sure, tightly-wound and secure with outstanding performances, this film is likely to please audiences all over the place. It's got a universal message with a big heart: love is king, ya'll!
(c) 2001 Berge Garabedian