Star Wars Episode II will it be crap?

[choicebro2001]

What are we expecting with this film? After THE PHANTOM MENACE what can we expect. Oh this reminds me I have a great alternate script to THE PHANTOM MENACE which I found in a magazine I'll post it up eventually. But back to the focus. I suppose with out Jake Lloyd we can expect to be that little bit better. I'm confused and unsure whether I'll even bother to go through all that hype and go and see it. Thoughts?

[Tuukka]

It's going to be better than PM.

[bloodyVALENTINE]

Only if in a scream-style opening sequence... they kill of Jar Jar Binks in a long and bloody manner...

[ClarkGriswald]

I probably won't be seeing it. I had the best hopes for PM. They were ruined by a screaming lil 11 year old shite (oh man, I am sorry, I mean Jake Lloyd!) and Jar Jar! I won't see Episode Two or Three UNLESS I get a really good reason to.

[kici]

It will be much better than Episode 1. Don't write it off.

Jonathan Hales, Mr. Lucas' co-writer, is an emmy award winning writer. His specialty is dialogue and he's done a great deal of work on this script. The problem with episode 1 wasn't the story arc--actually the story behind Palpatine's deceitful rise to position of Chancellor is pretty good. The problem was it felt lifeless: everything felt too starched except for the "kiddie" humor. The queen's dialogue was pretty stilted; Anakin's dialogue was just a little *too* artificial and there wasn't enough time spent fleshing out the relationship of the two Jedis considering that it was revealed that Obi-Wan only trained the future Vader out of respect for his murdered friend/teacher. Neeson and McGregor did a marvelous job of convincing us that there existed genuine affection between the two men considering just how little effort George put into their dialogue.

Hales will remedy this. He gave a pretty informative interview to the French insider about "his" script (I get the feeling he wrote more of it than Lucas is willing to publicly admit). Hales talked in particular about how much fun it was to write dialogue for the Obi-Wan/Anakin characters and establish for the audience that theirs was a real relationship that had thrived for ten years and was now feeling some strain. Hales also talked about how the love story between Luke's parents wasn't just going to be sugary pap but complicated, and that the movie's story as a whole--dealing ever more with the rise of the Emperor--would be much darker in tone than Episode 1.

I'm not saying that's a guarantee of success, but it's encouraging to hear Mr. Hales speaking about fleshing out the characters as opposed to the spectacle of it all. Portman, McGregor, and Ian McDiarmid are well established actors from their other work. From what I hear Hayden Christensen has some great potential. Hopefully Mr. Hales will give them the chance to show it. Star Wars is a fairy tale that begs to be told, unlike the Matrix, which stood well on its own but does not beg for a sequel.

[claire]

it will ROCK!!!
I have no doubts about it!
Less Jar Jar, no Jack lloyd anymore!!
a hot talented guy, some great actors, a good script...
I can't wait to see it

[ak]

I think it's important to remember that George Lucas hadn't directed since 1977, so The Phantom Menace sort of broke him into the flow again.
Although, i do not see this as a full excuse for the dissapointment that was Episode One.

Episode II has the potential to be a very dramatic, emotional and deeper film than any other Star Wars film ,as does Episode III have a high possibility of this.
Let's face it, Episode I was a kids film, full of pomp, childish imagery.
Episode II and III will be darker, thus maybe more exciting and darker, hey, the Clone Wars happen, a very dark time when all the Jedi get beaten.

Although, and i have said this before, that i can't help but feel the Lord of the Rings trilogy will take away the fire from Star Wars torch.

[kici]

I disagree. Why folks feel the need to pit the SW trilogy "against" other franchises escapes me. There are too many people in their 30s like myself who have such an affection for SW because we became enchanted with it as kids. That affection will always remain for me no matter what other films come along. As for the younger generation they probably will embrace LOTR, but youngsters aren't the only ones who purchase tickets. That's fine and good for them, but such is not my plan. Vive la différence.

As for me and LOTR, I read the books and enjoyed them but I must be in a real minority because I'm just not excited about the films. I don't trust *any* director to do those books justice. Once these stories are presented on the big screen something, some piece of the magic is going to get lost in the translation--especially by the time Episodes 2 and 3 are released on successive Christmas holidays. It's inevitable. LOTR will perform well at the box office, I'm sure, but I cannot imagine LOTR having quite the staying power in people's collective consciousness that SW has.

I don't care if the fanboys at AICN says the footage made them so excited they almost "wet their pants." I need a more mature perspective on these films if I'm going to waste my money.

[ak]

..Hmmmmmm.....i'm not going to agree with you there.

I think LOTR will last far longer in the culture of our world due to the fact that it's not a science fiction, but fantasy.
Science fiction dates terribly, no matter how well it is executed, but LOTR is set in a very distant part, where the only things that can possibly date is the general effects, which Star Wars seems to have held up well in, although, the odd one or two look dated.

Also, LOTR has a much larger fan basis than Star Wars, due to its success in literature, and that shows through the popularity of the films thus far.
It's not like this film is just appearing, fantasy has been meshed into culture far more than science fiction. And i think people are more interested in fantasy than they know.
See Star Wars, for example, it is almost a pure fantasy film with themes borrowed from Joseph Campbell's tales of wizadry.

I'd also like to add that Star Wars, if not officially and known to Lucas, pinched a few a large amount of themes and issues from LOTR.

[kici]

Wow.

Oh my goodness! You are kidding aren't you?

Star Wars is most definitely not science fiction. It's a fairy tale that borrows themes from Greek mythology....not from Lord of the Rings. Fairy tales endure.

As for your assessment of the size of their respective fanbases, I'm not worried about the SW fan base shrinking into insignificance any time soon. /ubb/wink.gif




[This message has been edited by kici (edited 06-12-2001).]

[robbert5]

Star Wars Episode II will be the best Star Wars movie i think. Because of the Clone Wars. This movie will be (hopefully) much darker than Episode I. No more Jake Lloyd that's a good thing. I don't hate him or Jar Jar but i don't like them both. I expect a big a war. And hopefully we will see Han and Chewie.

robbert

[ak]

It seems a very large coinsidence how similar Star Wars is to LOTR.

Also, Star Wars is fantasy, i said that, but intertwined around a science fiction, and it works well.

Similarities between LOTR and Star Wars, LOTr obviously came before...

...Follows a young man on an adventure that is both important and dangerous, on the way he encounters wizards, princesses and monsters, before descending into a labyrinth to achieve victory.

...There is a dark side that seeks to own an entire moment in a history, with a dark lords in both stories, with servants carrying out the deeds of the rather shy evil.

...and there are more, but, that could be a long list.

It may sound like nit-picking, but, LOTR established modern storytelling and i'm sure ol' Lucas was very influenced by it.

I'm not against Star Wars at all, i am a fan of the films, rating The Empire Strikes Back as my greatest of all time, and i have a vast knowledge of the films and their bakcground stories. I sometimes find myself questioning why i would compare the two projects, but, an event like LOTR is something that doesn't happen very often and i feel excitement in being able to compare such an outstanding achievement that Star Wars is to another.

LOTR will not affect my love for Star Wars, but it may certainly dent the way i look at it, forever.

[kici]

I'm not against LOTR by any means. Good luck to the films if they tickle your fancy. I don't have a neurotic need to see them fail like some of the more frenzied SW geeks.

I just don't believe that's where Lucas got his major influence is all. I see too much Greek mythology, the concepts of the tragic hero and all those good classic, angsty themes flowing through the Anakin Skywalker saga. I have some sites bookmarked but that would take too much time to fish out all those quotes which would indicate that I'm far more anally retentive than I'm willing to admit.

I'm sure I'll see LOTR eventually. It looks intriguing enough but I hold a real prejudice against movies adapted from famous books. More often than not something suffers in the transition at the hands of a hamfisted director in a stranglehold by a major film studio. LOTR may break the mold, but I'll have to hear some good word of mouth from someone whose tastes run along the same vein as mine, like maybe my sister. We're practically clones when it comes to our tastes in movies: both loved "Rob Roy," hated "Braveheart," loved "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon," hated "Gladiator," loved "Moulin Rouge," hated "Pearl Harbor" and the list goes on. /ubb/smile.gif If she gives me a thumbs up after opening night I imagine I'll give it a viewing the next weekend.

[This message has been edited by kici (edited 06-12-2001).]

[ak]

..i also loved CTHD, but hated Pearl Harbor.

Also, i'm not just saying LOTR was the major inspiration for Star Wars, cause it almost blatantly was not, there were also larger influences, but i think Lucas, on the sly, used LOTR a little.

[Scorchlord]

How could you hate Braveheart?

[Ender]

I for one am really looking forward to Episode 2. Lucas has promised a darker and much more serious theme for this one, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. All of you are still whining over Phantom Menace can bend over and kiss my Ewok (metaphorically speaking).

[kici]

Braveheart took too many historical liberties for my tastes. I don't know; I usually really enjoy Mel Gibson's work but for some reason Dee and I didn't care for this movie. Maybe it's just because it suffered in comparison to Rob Roy, which came out earlier that year. I felt Liam Neeson captured the sensitive swashbuckling hero presentation so much better than Gibson. That lovemaking scene with Jessica Lange was one of the most arousing scenes I can ever remember seeing on film. Also, Neeson had a leading lady his own age. I thought it was cool that when the casting honchos didn't want to cast Jessica Lange because she was in her early 40s at the time--the same age as Neeson--Liam spoke up and defended her as the best actress for the part to the director. I always thought Liam was a hell of a man for speaking up for Jessica instead of thinking of his own ego and how macho he would look next to a 20 year old actress. He and Jessica redefined sexual chemistry in that film.

So that's my longwinded explanation as to why I didn't like "Braveheart." /ubb/biggrin.gif

Episode 2's gonna rock!!

[This message has been edited by kici (edited 06-12-2001).]

[Scorchlord]

Braveheart wasn't an actual historical movie. It was a piece of fiction turned into a movie, like Schindler's List.

Rob Roy was good, but I prefer Braveheart. Much more heart pounding and the battle sequences were the best sword fighting medieval sequences I've ever seen.

[Magnolia1240]

To anyone who has followed the reports of what supposedly is in this movie has agree that the movie will rule!

Now that I've said that let me disclaimer myself and explain why I think that. First off, I am not a big Star Wars fan. I like and respect what the Ep. 4,5 and 6 did for the industry and thier popularity but, I am not the biggest fan. I like them because they are good entertainment.

Secondly, if you follow the reports that Coming Attractions and AICN has put up about what is going to be in this movie we can only expect something huge. They (Coming Attractions and AICN) have told thier reading audience about so many characters and plot lines that if only half of what they have rumored is in the actually movie it will kick ass. Lucas, apparently, has a lot going on here. I think in this genre and with this cast (which is pretty good) that is a very hopeful sign for its outcome.

Consider this also. Most people liked SW EP1. They didn't "love" it and they didn't go nuts for it but, they did "like" it. After all the die-hard, nutjob SW fans (I'm not saying all die-hard fans are nutjobs, just those who showed themself to be one) bashed the movie I think Lucas learned a thing or two. He will improve on his mistakes and tweak what didn't work so that it did. Rumor is, Jar-Jar will play a more important role. I disliked him in the first movie because he was an annoying side character that did very little. For most of the movie (95%) he was...just there. Nothing more, nothing less. If rumors are true and he plays a bigger role then I won't mind having him in the movie.

As for Jake. Well...he sucks.

As for this LOTR discussion I think it is only fair to say LOTR influenced Lucas. I have a question for anyone who thinks otherwise. What hasn't LOTR influenced? It was the first of its kind. It basically created the fantasy genre. Every fantasy writer following has said that they drew inspiration from LOTR. Tolkien was a good writer. I don't like his style at all but, I admit he was good.

Plus, I don't think it fair to compare SW with LOTR. One comes from a book, the other from one guy's head. There's a huge difference in there somewhere.

Until next time...

Magnolia1240

[Brandon]

I think Episode 2 sounds like it will be better than the previous one. To those who claim that Lucas took inspiration from LOTR, they should check out the Sw "Magic of Myth" book. It highlights similar characters and themes throughout mythology from all cultures and all generations. SW is a modern myth drawing inspiration from numerous elements of mythology and classic storytelling, The Bible, on up to the westerns popular during the first half of the 20th century. LOTR is a good story, I'm sure(I've only read the 1st book,but..), however it borrows much from the traditional fairy tale itself. The similarities that ak pointed out can be seen not only in Sw and LOTR but also myriad myths and fairy tales from throughout history and the world.I think it is safe to assume that both Lucas and Tolkien drew inspiration from some of the same sources when they each created their own epics.
I plan to see the LOTR movies, but I am growing tired of everyone talking about how good they are and how much money they are going to make when the films have not even been released yet. As good as the books are, the film may still suck big time.(Look at the SW trilogy VS Episode 1) In closing, I wish all of the luck in the world to LOTR, but I warn others not to praise a film until they have seen it for themself.
By the way, though the LOTR fanbase may be large due to the novels, never underestimate the size of the SW fanbase. In my experience only fans of hte genre really get into LOTR. However it seems as if all of the world has seen and is familiar with SW. Most consider themselves to be fans. Whereas many people have never heard of the LOTR. I realize that the books are loved around the world, but they have not become ingrained into our popular culture in the same way as SW.

I look forward to seeing both LOTR and Episodde II in the next year.

[ak]

I think you summed up this whole topic nicely there Brandon, and i agree very much with you on your points.

As for the Star Wars magic of myth - I know a lot about the history of Star Wars, and i know very well that Lucas borrowed from Joseph Campbell and mythologies, and was very interested in bringing the Western genre back in a very different form of science fiction, and i know that good vs. evil is something witnessed in every great mythology since year dot, but there is just something "rip-offy" about Star Wars in my opinion compared to LOTR, i just feel it, i can't help but feel it. It may not even be the case, but the main focus of the stories and how they are dealt with are almost exact to LOTR.

Anyways, i feel i have tread that ground enough now and i feel i should focus my attention to the original question...

Will "Episode II" be crap?

No, it will not be crap, Episode I wasn't crap, it was just very dissapointing.
Thinking about it, how could Episode II be crap? There is no likely way that i can think of, and even Ewan McGregor seems very happy with the script this time round (he didn't like PM script), as a Young Indiana Jones writer has been helping Lucas with it.

Overall, i am lookinfg forward to Episode II, but LOTR is the film trilogy that is the main focus of my attention.

[BlowSnatch0169]

I don't think it will be crap! I hope it will be great. I loved all the other STAR WARS.

[toddguy7]

Of course it will be crap! Episode 1 was.
It looked like a lame nintendo game. Lucas should get a job!! JarJar fag needs to die a slow and painful (yet quiet) death.

[Dr. Movielove]

I don't think it'll be crap. Jake Lloyd is what made The Phantom Menace crap, without him it would've been much better. O and yes please get rid of Binks.

[Scorchlord]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by toddguy7:
Episode 1 was.
</font>

Yes, it was, but what does that have to do with the sequel?

[Dr. Movielove]

I don't think it'll be as near as good as Episodes 4, 5, or 6.

[Scorchlord]

Neither do I, but those are some of the greatest films ever made. I watched Empire last night, and it was great. It has aged so well.

But that doesn't mean Eppy II will suck. After TPM, it can only get better, right?