A rant about how we associate race with movies. Please discuss constructively. :)

[Jack Tripper]

Preface: There have been alot of mentioning lately of how FRIDAY is a "black movie".

Why doesn't anyone call Robert Altman films "white movies"?

People strongly confuse black with ghetto. Elvis is either rolling in his grave, or shaking his pelvis in dismay somewhere on a U.F.O hovering over Las Vegas.

Dang it... Everyone here loves Quentin Tarrantino, and his movies pay so much homage to the "black cinema" of the 70s.

Look past the color of the people on screen and look at what the content of the movie is, and where the movie draws it's influence.

Cheech and Chong movies were considered "Pot Head" films.... How is CHEECH AND CHONG different than Friday? No one outcried that UP IN SMOKE poorly depicted asians and mexicans, eh?

Ask yourself in the most objective mind-set...

How is FRIDAY different that HALF-BAKED?

How is BOYZ N THE HOOD different than A BRONX TELL?

How is STELLA GOT HER GROOVE BACK different than FRIED GREEN TOMATOES?

How is IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BENJAMINS different than THE TAKING OF PELHAM 1-2-3

How is BLUE STREAK different than LETHAL WEAPON?

How is SHE'S GOT TO HAVE IT different than ANNIE HALL?

How is HALLOWEEN: RESURRECTION differnt than HALLOWEEN?


In my opinion, it is confusing to dismiss a movie as being a black film. Black Film is reserved to describe dark comedies like HEATHERS, VERY BAD THINGS, and other assorted Chistian Slater films. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif


Are you trying to say that FRIDAY is an exploitation flick? If so, than it doesn't exploit blacks as much as it exploits people who live in the ghetto. That could be exploiting people like the young pre-fame Elvis. Not blacks. Shoot - The film could even be exploiting Mikey Rouke's character in BARFLY.

Was O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU an exploitation flick about old timey country folk?

Let's compare actors

Taye Diggs and Chris Tukker?

How can you compare these two. Diggs is a handsome leading man a la Gary Cooper or Sidney Poitier. Chris Tukker is a comedic actor a la JIM CARREY or Adam Sandler.

And speaking of Jim Carrey, didn't it seem like we were headed in the right direction when Jim Carrey played in "In Living Color" surrounded by an all-"black" cast, and no one cared?

Are we in regression with race relations?

Why was every single Denzel Washington movie called a movie, then TRAINING DAY was called a "black movie"? Come on folks, it's pretty obvious that stereotyping is abound. The difference is that Denzel used the n-word, there was rap music and the ghetto.

How can a teenage male say that HOW STELLA GOT HER GROOVE BACK doesn't appeal to them because it is a "black film" -- Come on, and remember LESTER BURNAM and "look closer" HSGHGB was a film about a 40-something married woman who had an affair in Jamaica. What does that have to do with color?

How can a non-pot smoker say that HOW HIGH doesn't appeal to them because it is a "black film" -- Come on. It is a movie about pot smokers. Abre los ojos, yo!

Please, man. I really beg of everyone here to not dismiss a movie as racial. Unless we have someone in black face on their knees (And the Sutherland/Hopper flick FLASHBACK doesn't count) -- the movie is not racial.

I hope you all don't flame me for speaking about this. An absence towards the consideration of race is an important aspect in seeing good quality movies.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna pop in some Elvis and Hendrix, compare the two, then OD and die.

[Muha]

hmm... interesting topic.


i do believe that there are "BLACK FILMS", but i find them more to be on the side of BET movies of the week than anything else.


BLACK FILMS are, in my opinion, films that interest black people and nothing else. it has a black cast, a black director, and deals with urban issues. issues that could involve rape, drugs, crime, or... friendship, love, and family.

i am not stereotyping, because it IS the truth. you wont see a lot of white males in "the brothers" or "how stella got her groove back" because it might not interest them.

my dad, who is NOt racist by any means, would never see a film like this because it doesnt interest him. he would never see friday, never see boyz in the hood, but he would be interested in training day. why you ask?

because of ethan hawke and denzel washington. my dad likes black actors, shit he loves independence day cause will smith is good in it. he likes denzel, he thought sam jackson was cool as hell in die hard 3, and he likes morgan freeman.


my mom LOVES morgan freeman, but she doesnt watch "black films" either because they dont interest her.

"black films" tend to alienate a lot of people. they can use terminology to confuse a person like me (white male just graduated from high school, attending a semi-rural college in western pennsylvania) or they could address issues that i could care less about.


people are more interested in italian-american gangsters than black ones. why?

who knows and who cares... i dont judge people by the color of their skin, but other people do. is it cool? no, but thats how the world works. you cant change people's opinions. and if you try to do that, you are just as bad as the fascist leaders like hitler that forced their views on the european people.

[Jack Tripper]

Muha -- Thanks for replying!

I have a strong suspicion that black males would also not like How Stella Got Her Groove Back, so don't think it's a black/white issue.

Let's not recap...

I'm still thinking of the Italian gangster vs. The black gangster thing.

Do you think it is because we are more used to Italians?

The Italians immigrated into the US and set up buisnesses long before blacks did. Italians have been productive in America for a longer period of time than blacks have.

We love ziti, rigatoni, and calzone. But how many people here have ever tried chitlins, grits, pigs feet, or collard greens?

Perhaps as time goes by, and we as an American whole get more familiar with a culture that is dominated by blacks, we will be more patient with movies dominated by blacks.

And I'd also like to wonder why GOODFELLAS is not considered exploitive of the Italian American community...

An odd facet is that the 4 biggest fans I have ever known of the movie FRIDAY were 3 British drama exchange students. Have you ever noticed that British TV shows feature black players like no big thing.

Just out of curiosity, are British ghettos integrated?

Again, thanks for your views, Muha. Your father sounds like a smart man. Maybe he would like NEW JACK CITY. Or maybe not. If you haven't seen it, the two of you should check it out. It has some kick ass action scenes, and some high intensity. Although I'm not the biggest Mario Van Peebles fan, I give him some credit on this movie.

Enjoy the movies.

PS - Speaking of Hitler... I wonder what he would make of MALCOLM X.

Pss -- I would hardly call wanting to change peoples views a fascist act. If so, what should we make of John Lennon?

[This message has been edited by Jack Tripper (edited 07-05-2002).]

[echo_bravo]

Jack, lets not start up this shit again man. I really shouldnt of called them "black" films, so sorry about that. I will call them urban or hood movies ok?

All I was ranting about was that after seeing How High, I decided that was the last straw in watching hood based movies.

Again, those movies just arent my taste. Its just like some people dont like westerns.
Just because there are a lot of black people in a movie DOES NOT mean I am going to see it. Like I said before, I am a big fan of denzel, morgan, and Samuel.

Also, I have smoked my fair share of pot...that wasnt the reason I hated Friday.

[Muha]

---------------------------------------------
Again, thanks for your views, Muha. Your father sounds like a smart man. Maybe he would like NEW JACK CITY. Or maybe not. If you haven't seen it, the two of you should check it out. It has some kick ass action scenes, and some high intensity. Although I'm not the biggest Mario Van Peebles fan, I give him some credit on this movie.
---------------------------------------------


hey no problem man... views are my thing, im getting into politics. speaking of which, i just met one of my u.s. senators, arlen specter. very cool guy. my dad was talking to my u.s. rep too... he wants me to intern at his office either here in my hometown or down in DC.

my dad is pretty smart too haha.

as to new jack city... he might like it, but hes mostly a sci-fi and fantasy type. he likes some action, but only stuff from the older movie stars that are his age or so... bruce willis, stallone, cruise, arnold, and gibson.

as to the mob question... i think the mob intrigues a hell of a lot of people. the way they run their business and their hoods intrigue me. one of my favorite movies is the untouchables and im pumped for road to perdition too.

blacks are different than the italians b/c of the fact that not a lot of blacks have made it to par with the likes of capone and gotti. i dont think they ever had the opportunity to be respected in that field.

not only that i dont really know of any black gangsters... well except for wilson fisk, but even he was white originally. :0)


---------------------------------------------
I would hardly call wanting to change peoples views a fascist act. If so, what should we make of John Lennon?
---------------------------------------------

i love john lennon btw. ok... i think you misinterpreted my idea, but maybe i didnt explain myself well enough. there was a group of kids in my high school before i graduated that belonged to a youth group that they decided to bring to the school. well... lets just say they are a little fundamentalist to their religion and they publicly admit to "helping people see the way to Christ."

i am a christian, but i do not believe that it is the right of a christian to convince or force their belief onto others as a way to spread their religion. i just dont feel its right, just like i do not with the views of others.

it should be ok to help change the views of the public, i.e. banning abortion. but forcing and giving facts to help your case are 2 entirely different ways to doing it.

if i could help eliminate racism, i would. but dont do it forcefully and dont do it individually. start with the youngsters and teach them that racism is wrong, dont tell the older white male that racism is wrong, hell look at you and think you are forcing it on him. then, he increases his hatred even more. it shouldnt be right to tell people what to believe and what not to believe, but if you start out and actually teach people what to do, then you are doing the right thing IMO.

i feel that way about jesse jackson and al sharpton too... they alienate the white male and piss them off. they create an outlet for blacks to blame white society that theyve been held down for too long. i think its jackson's and sharpton's fault for the regression america has been seeing in race relations.

there should be a movement to bring back the teaching of martin luther king jr.. it should show how blacks and whites can coincide with each other and work together to extend the potential of mankind not separate the two races and say one is better than the other and point blame on one.

[LAW]

Halle Berry made her being a person of color the most important aspect of her acting achievement. If it is appropriate to refer to minorities as "people of color" then should I as a caucasian refer to myself as a "person without color"? Can you imagine if Nicole Kidman won the Oscar and in her speech said "I am proud to accept this award on behalf of people without color"??!!!
If you express your pride of being caucasian, it's called racism. But if you express your pride of being a minority it's a cultural right all their own. Not really fair is it?

[Jack Tripper]

echo_bravo -- No starting stuff here. The media does this, I have done it, and little Jojo with the gimpy leg does it. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

I agree that there are black movies, but sometimes I feel they are a bit misjudged.


Muha -- I see what you are saying. My tone did seem sort of condescending. "How can you..." Thanks for pointing out my err.

Be careful in politics. If you are someone who believes that we should be teaching the foundations of Martin Luther King Jr. (More so than during the shortest month of the year.) You'll make a better person than most of the jokers out there. Just don't fall into The Dark Side.


LAW - You do make a good point. I beleive that Halle Berry was caught up in the media frenzy (See my response to echo above). Every single interview she was in after her nomination, the first question would be about black actors never winning. If you ask me, she said what the majority of people wanted her to say. That is why there was no offense.

I can't imagine Nicole saying that her winning was important for Australians, because, well, Mel Gibson already broke that ground. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif

Thanks for the laid back attitudes on this topic, everyone.

On another note, isn't it funny that people use black and colored interchangable when talking about people. Because, well, black isn't a color. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[CrowTRobot]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LAW:
Halle Berry made her being a person of color the most important aspect of her acting achievement. If it is appropriate to refer to minorities as "people of color" then should I as a caucasian refer to myself as a "person without color"? Can you imagine if Nicole Kidman won the Oscar and in her speech said "I am proud to accept this award on behalf of people without color"??!!!
If you express your pride of being caucasian, it's called racism. But if you express your pride of being a minority it's a cultural right all their own. Not really fair is it?</font>

But whites/europeans have not traditionally had their rights taken away from them BECAUSE of their "lack of color," as you put it. African Americans did not invent the use of "people of color," it was invented by others to denounce them, ridicule them, and try to make them sub-human. Hence, many minorities OWN the term "of color" because they can draw stength from having pride in it. It probably began as a way to combat racism in America before the civil rights movemet (and insome degree, today as well) - if others want to designate you as "colored" than you make being "colored" a great thing to be, ie with a vibrant culture.

Does that answer your "question" ?

[CrowTRobot]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jack Tripper:
Preface: There have been alot of mentioning lately of how FRIDAY is a "black movie".

Why doesn't anyone call Robert Altman films "white movies"?

People strongly confuse black with ghetto. Elvis is either rolling in his grave, or shaking his pelvis in dismay somewhere on a U.F.O hovering over Las Vegas.

Dang it... Everyone here loves Quentin Tarrantino, and his movies pay so much homage to the "black cinema" of the 70s.

Look past the color of the people on screen and look at what the content of the movie is, and where the movie draws it's influence.

Cheech and Chong movies were considered "Pot Head" films.... How is CHEECH AND CHONG different than Friday? No one outcried that UP IN SMOKE poorly depicted asians and mexicans, eh?

Ask yourself in the most objective mind-set...

How is FRIDAY different that HALF-BAKED?

How is BOYZ N THE HOOD different than A BRONX TELL?

How is STELLA GOT HER GROOVE BACK different than FRIED GREEN TOMATOES?

How is IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BENJAMINS different than THE TAKING OF PELHAM 1-2-3

How is BLUE STREAK different than LETHAL WEAPON?

How is SHE'S GOT TO HAVE IT different than ANNIE HALL?

How is HALLOWEEN: RESURRECTION differnt than HALLOWEEN?


In my opinion, it is confusing to dismiss a movie as being a black film. Black Film is reserved to describe dark comedies like HEATHERS, VERY BAD THINGS, and other assorted Chistian Slater films. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif


Are you trying to say that FRIDAY is an exploitation flick? If so, than it doesn't exploit blacks as much as it exploits people who live in the ghetto. That could be exploiting people like the young pre-fame Elvis. Not blacks. Shoot - The film could even be exploiting Mikey Rouke's character in BARFLY.

Was O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU an exploitation flick about old timey country folk?

Let's compare actors

Taye Diggs and Chris Tukker?

How can you compare these two. Diggs is a handsome leading man a la Gary Cooper or Sidney Poitier. Chris Tukker is a comedic actor a la JIM CARREY or Adam Sandler.

And speaking of Jim Carrey, didn't it seem like we were headed in the right direction when Jim Carrey played in "In Living Color" surrounded by an all-"black" cast, and no one cared?

Are we in regression with race relations?

Why was every single Denzel Washington movie called a movie, then TRAINING DAY was called a "black movie"? Come on folks, it's pretty obvious that stereotyping is abound. The difference is that Denzel used the n-word, there was rap music and the ghetto.

How can a teenage male say that HOW STELLA GOT HER GROOVE BACK doesn't appeal to them because it is a "black film" -- Come on, and remember LESTER BURNAM and "look closer" HSGHGB was a film about a 40-something married woman who had an affair in Jamaica. What does that have to do with color?

How can a non-pot smoker say that HOW HIGH doesn't appeal to them because it is a "black film" -- Come on. It is a movie about pot smokers. Abre los ojos, yo!

Please, man. I really beg of everyone here to not dismiss a movie as racial. Unless we have someone in black face on their knees (And the Sutherland/Hopper flick FLASHBACK doesn't count) -- the movie is not racial.

I hope you all don't flame me for speaking about this. An absence towards the consideration of race is an important aspect in seeing good quality movies.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna pop in some Elvis and Hendrix, compare the two, then OD and die.</font>

YOu make interesting points, and although I wasn't going to comment further in other related postings, this seems like a relatively relaxed post to discuss race and film.

Basically, I disagree that there cannot be "black films" because I think more and more, films are being made for african american audiences and non-a.a.s who are interested in their culture. Yes,this may alienate some/many viewers, but consider how some or all african american moviegoers have felt alienated for DECADES by being forced to watch films with white protagonists? Probably pretty alienated. I think its only right and American that more and more films are about who the americans really are: all different cultures and sub cultures, religions, identities, economic enclaves,
etc.

So basically, I agree that much of the time looking past race and seeing just human characters is a great thing; and while you're right that we shouldn't "dismiss" films as being "black," we shouldn't deny that some films may or may not try to deal with african american issues, as opposed to universal issues, and we shouldn't stop ourselves from praising them when they do a good job as such.

I'm thankful that you've reitirated a lot of key points made in other posts: that economics are related to "hood life," not genetics; that any race has its serious actors and its entertaining, yet shallow, comedians turned actors. etc. These are important things that, unfortunately, many people (say, in buffalo) don't grasp.

[Jack Tripper]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by CrowTRobot:
Basically, I disagree that there cannot be "black films" because I think more and more, films are being made for african american audiences and non-a.a.s who are interested in their culture. </font>


True. My main point is that we all watch movie. That is a common factor. Why should we segregate movies, when we've realized that we shouldn't segregate people?


I deep down think that we are all agreeing here, and maybe we all even agree that we all agree -- I dunno.

I really like this post because there is some cool middle ground being brought up here.


I do see some points with those who agree with me less than others. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/smile.gif

The reason I say this is because I use the term "Chick Flick".

Ironic... But is there really a difference between black chick flicks and white chick flicks. Shoot -- I remember that movie in the early to mid nineties that was a jewish chick flick.

Discussions are cool...

[notchreturns]

I always thought "black movies" were about black people and the issues they face, whether good or bad.(i.e. Do The Right thing, Boyz N The Hood)

I dont think we have "white movies" becuase whites don't face the same problems as blacks have or do. Whites werent ridiculed and tormented for centuries on end. Most whites dont face poverty ,violence and hate crimes as much as blacks do today. I dont consider Friday or How High "black films". I consider Do The Right Thing, Boyz N The Hood and Fresh "black films". "Black Movies" are made to give their people hope and to show that violence against anyone is wrong. And as a someone who is white I can say it doesnt make me feel uncomfortable at all. I salute spike lee and john singleton for takes chances and speaking the truth about their culture today.

[Adam J. Hakari]

Movies are movies. It's all a matter of how YOU see them, and very partially in how they're seen in general. Some movies are made for a certain group, and some aren't. It's all about how you look at the scheme of things.

And that's the name of that tune.

[Jack Tripper]

Wow. All of the accumulative posts here have given me alot to consider.

People do see movies differently. A white (anglo-saxon american http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif ) who grew up in similar conditions to that associated with blacks, may not see a movie regarded as being "black" the same way as another person would.

We shouldn't limit ourselves on the movies we watch.

I'm up for watching some movies geared toward women.

Keep the comments coming.

[noisy_brut]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jack Tripper:
Preface: There have been alot of mentioning lately of how FRIDAY is a "black movie".

Why doesn't anyone call Robert Altman films "white movies"?</font>


Why do we hvae a Black History Month and not an Indian History month?

Why is there Black Entertainment Television?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">People strongly confuse black with ghetto. Elvis is either rolling in his grave, or shaking his pelvis in dismay somewhere on a U.F.O hovering over Las Vegas.
</font>


Who is saying that "Black Films" are all films set in the ghetto? I have heard "The Cosby Show" and "Fresh Prince" described as Black shows, and they are not set in the ghetto.

I see "Black Films" as films being made by black actors, directors, and producers being aimed more towards black audiences, and have a black viewpoint. (Examples: Boyz N the Hood: the A Black man has no place in the White Man's army speech, at the end of Hood where Ice Cube says something along the lines of "Either they don't know...or they don't care" ot Lawrence Fishburne's putting money back into the Black community segment) It is a viewpoint that the Black Community has, that maybe some non-black people haven't considered before seeing it.

It is an outlet for Black artists to express themselves. There is a great deal of pride that goes along with the genre. What do you think the NAACP Image Awards is honoring? Black Films, Music and artists.

You make it sound like it is a bad thing, and that non-black people look down at "Black Movies". And that non-black people won't go to a "Black Movie"

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Dang it... Everyone here loves Quentin Tarrantino, and his movies pay so much homage to the "black cinema" of the 70s.

Look past the color of the people on screen and look at what the content of the movie is, and where the movie draws it's influence.
</font>


Again, I don't see "Black Movies" as a "Bad" label stuck on by non-black people, I see it as a label of something that the Black Community put out and can be proud of.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">In my opinion, it is confusing to dismiss a movie as being a black film. Black Film is reserved to describe dark comedies like HEATHERS, VERY BAD THINGS, and other assorted Chistian Slater films. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/wink.gif
</font>


I think black comedies and Black films are two TOTALLY different things. Black Comedy is very edgy dealing with death, violence, or drug use or things not generally considered comedic. (Such as Johnny T. accidently blowing off Marvin's head and the ensuing argument that follows) It has nothing to do with the Black Culture.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Are you trying to say that FRIDAY is an exploitation flick? </font>


If it is written by, directed by, and stars all Black people, then who is being exploited?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Let's compare actors

Taye Diggs and Chris Tukker?

How can you compare these two. Diggs is a handsome leading man a la Gary Cooper or Sidney Poitier. Chris Tukker is a comedic actor a la JIM CARREY or Adam Sandler.
</font>


Why do you need to compare every Black Actor to a White Actor?

Tucker is also a comedic actor a la Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, Bernie Mac, Dave Chapelle, any Wayans Brother, Eddie Griffin, Bill Cosby, or Martin Lawrence

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">And speaking of Jim Carrey, didn't it seem like we were headed in the right direction when Jim Carrey played in "In Living Color" surrounded by an all-"black" cast, and no one cared?

Are we in regression with race relations?
</font>


It must have started when he beat up the black midget in "Me Myself and Irene"

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Why was every single Denzel Washington movie called a movie, then TRAINING DAY was called a "black movie"?</font>


I never heard TRAINING DAY described as a "Black Movie"

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Come on folks, it's pretty obvious that stereotyping is abound. The difference is that Denzel used the n-word, there was rap music and the ghetto.
</font>


Go ahead you can type the word - nigger

As George Carlin put it...There is nothing wrong with the word "nigger" in and of itself...it's the context of the racial asshole that's using it that you have be worried about.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">How can a teenage male say that HOW STELLA GOT HER GROOVE BACK doesn't appeal to them because it is a "black film" -- Come on, and remember LESTER BURNAM and "look closer" HSGHGB was a film about a 40-something married woman who had an affair in Jamaica. What does that have to do with color?
</font>


I actually didn't avoid it because I thought it was a "Black Film" I avoided it because I thought it was a "Chick Flick", just like I avoided "Steel Magnolias"

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
How can a non-pot smoker say that HOW HIGH doesn't appeal to them because it is a "black film" -- Come on. It is a movie about pot smokers. Abre los ojos, yo!

Please, man. I really beg of everyone here to not dismiss a movie as racial. Unless we have someone in black face on their knees (And the Sutherland/Hopper flick FLASHBACK doesn't count) -- the movie is not racial.

I hope you all don't flame me for speaking about this. An absence towards the consideration of race is an important aspect in seeing good quality movies.
</font>


Multiple viewpoints are also an important aspect. Movies would be boring if they all said the same thing. People would be boring if they all thought the same way.

A lot of people are proud of their race, and are not afraid to say it...meaning people of all races.

I have never heard anyone say that "Black Movie" = "Poor Quality"...if that is what you think, then maybe you DO need to do some thinking on the subject.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna pop in some Elvis and Hendrix, compare the two, then OD and die.</font>

I guess that's a better way to go than the way the singer from INXS died...hanging himself in a closet with a bag over his head while masturbating.

Why didn't you bring up "Japanimation" or "Hong Kong" movies?

There is a "Black Culture" in the world, and "Black Movies" are a part of it. Just as Kwanzaa is. If you want to take away a genre like "Black Movies" it would be a slap in the face...not a step towards racial harmony.

Another thing to consider is people are aware of racism...but most don't agree with it. Some people can even have fun with it. Go watch Blazing Saddles for some great examples of "Fun with Racist Humor"

[This message has been edited by noisy_brut (edited 07-11-2002).]

[This message has been edited by noisy_brut (edited 07-11-2002).]

[noisy_brut]

Just to add to the discussion from a music standpoint listen to the Public Enemy's "Bring the Noise" from the album "It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back". Particularly to the lines:
Listen for lessons I'm saying inside music
That the critics are blasting me for
They'll never care for the brothers and sisters now across
The country has us up for the war
We got to demonstrate, come on now, they're gonna have to wait,
'till we get it right
Radio stations I question their blackness
They call themselves black, but we'll see if they'll play this

[Razorblade Smile]

Well, there's nothing really that I can add that hasn't already been stated, so I'll just include my personal spin on the whole issue.

I don't think labeling something as a 'black movie' is neccesarily wrong, as it may help to market to those who would be interested in a film dealing with aspects of culture that are practically exclusive to the African American community.

I consider Boyz in the Hood a black film. It is about the reactions to a community that has already been segregated by lines of color. The racism issue isn't employed directly in the film, but it plays heavily into why the characters developed the way that they did. Especially Fishburne and Ice-Cube.

I don't however consider Do the Right Thing a black film. If I recall correctly, Spike Lee was making a statement against racism in general and not necessarily towards the black community. It just seems that way I suppose since the film was shown to us through the eyes of Moogie. But they pretty much made fun of just about every culture; the whites, the blacks, the asian, the Italians, the latino, etc.

If I were asked what constitutes a black film, I guess I would have to say that a black film is one that deals with themes that are exclusive to a black culture. You can't make an effective white-ghetto film, because white people are not subjected to many of the harsh realities that contribute to the creation of a black ghetto environment.

[BubbaStrangelove]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by noisy_brut:
Why is there Black Entertainment Television?
</font>

there was a poll conducted and it was discovered that blacks were not watching mtv. they started yo mtv raps and found they were getting black viewers.

then a white man named bob magness got together with some investors and decided that there should be a cable network marketed soley toward blacks.

that's why there is a black entertainment network

http://www.cablecenter.org/images/history/hall_of_fame/BobMagness.gif

[Muha]

i bet you a 100 bucks that if mtv decided to create a white entertainment network it would be blasted for racism.

[The Heart Collector]

Because it's excluding MINORITIES, as opposed to a black channel, which would be FOR a minority.

[Muha]

yes, but if you use that argument then BET is just as racist as a white entertainment channel.

BET caters to ONE minority, not all of them. and its not really fair to rule out all white music either.

i mean, blacks argue about why whites call movies like "friday" black films. well... what else are we supposed to think when THEY call rap like eminem and dr. dre BLACK music. it surely must be if thats all they show and its a black entertainment channel


if they really wanted to diversify then why dont they play some Dave Matthews Band. They have 3 BLACK musicians and it would classify as a reggae/folk/soft rock. THEY classify rap and r&b as BLACK MUSIC. therefore, they have no right to bitch about people like me who claim that "boyz in the hood" is a BLACK FILM.

just for note: i am not racist and i hope none of these arguments make me sound like one.

[Muha]

sorry double post

[This message has been edited by Muha (edited 07-14-2002).]

[Raena]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Muha:


what else are we supposed to think when THEY call rap like eminem and dr. dre BLACK music.

</font>


Wait a minute. . .Eminem's rap isn't "white rap"?

[The Heart Collector]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Muha:
yes, but if you use that argument then BET is just as racist as a white entertainment channel.

BET caters to ONE minority, not all of them. and its not really fair to rule out all white music either.

i mean, blacks argue about why whites call movies like "friday" black films. well... what else are we supposed to think when THEY call rap like eminem and dr. dre BLACK music. it surely must be if thats all they show and its a black entertainment channel


if they really wanted to diversify then why dont they play some Dave Matthews Band. They have 3 BLACK musicians and it would classify as a reggae/folk/soft rock. THEY classify rap and r&b as BLACK MUSIC. therefore, they have no right to bitch about people like me who claim that "boyz in the hood" is a BLACK FILM.

just for note: i am not racist and i hope none of these arguments make me sound like one.

</font>


Do I REALLY have to post that jewish restaurant analogy again? It's different to offer something to a very specific group of people that won't find it anywhere else, than depriving a very specific group of people of something they won't find anywhere else.

[BadCoverVersion]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove:
http://www.cablecenter.org/images/history/hall_of_fame/BobMagness.gif </font>

Christ Almighty! Is that Les fucking Patterson!?

[Muha]

---------------------------------------------
Do I REALLY have to post that jewish restaurant analogy again? It's different to offer something to a very specific group of people that won't find it anywhere else, than depriving a very specific group of people of something they won't find anywhere else.
---------------------------------------------

no that has nothing to do with the analogy im using, because rap is on mtv and such. it is played on top 40 radio along with other "white" hits like n'sync and the backstreet boys.

maybe at the time it wasnt like that, but it is now and it shows how confused the whole race situation is.

it seems to me more and more that the whole african american argument is a complete double standard.

[CrowTRobot]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Muha:
yes, but if you use that argument then BET is just as racist as a white entertainment channel.

BET caters to ONE minority, not all of them. and its not really fair to rule out all white music either.

i mean, blacks argue about why whites call movies like "friday" black films. well... what else are we supposed to think when THEY call rap like eminem and dr. dre BLACK music. it surely must be if thats all they show and its a black entertainment channel


if they really wanted to diversify then why dont they play some Dave Matthews Band. They have 3 BLACK musicians and it would classify as a reggae/folk/soft rock. THEY classify rap and r&b as BLACK MUSIC. therefore, they have no right to bitch about people like me who claim that "boyz in the hood" is a BLACK FILM.

just for note: i am not racist and i hope none of these arguments make me sound like one.

</font>


HEre we go again -

Look at america's past. There has been at tradition of racism inherent in american culture, and the post-overt-racist society we live in now is still living in the watershed of the double standards we put african americans (and other groups) through for years. By "we" I mean most of caucasion america of its past.

It was the american system that called these peoples "black" or "colored" and forced them into a category. With no alternative, africa americans found STRENGTH in their "group." They relied on their community for strength and wanted to make "being black" something to be proud of.
"We" forced them to become a "they" and even now there is trouble breaking down these lines.

THEREFORE, african american culture has become a legitimate sub-culture of america, a country made up completley of different sub-cultures. Different types of immigrants have brought innumerable traditons and religions to america over the years, and their traditions have merged with american ones to differing degrees, and the result is a sweet complex and completely unique tapestry that is contemporary american society. Celebrating one segment of our society is a great thing, because it forces us to realize one of the parts that make us what we are.

African american culture is/has been one of the most integral to america's strength, in the arts, in government, in life. BET is a channel that seeks to highlight america's african american art/entertainment forms. BET does not want to REPLACE mtv, it wants to supplement it. BET jazz is the only place you can see jazz programming; many r and b acts only get air time on BET jazz.

Rap and r and b are IDIOMS,they need not always be performed by african americans. Eminem is working in an african american idiom that arose out of spoken word and rhythmic music, and that also tried to reflect/comment on parts of african america that lived in poor inner city areas. Just like elvis, dave brubeck, or diana krall are all white artists that work in an african american medium, many african american artists work in european mediums like opera, ballet, etc.

The goal for any filmmaker should be to transcend the race of his/her characters WITHOUT denying their race. Race should not be ignored, but it should not be the reason with which we make assumptions about their character and humanity.