Foreign Horror

[pizowell]

I don't get this foreign horror thing. Like Fulci and Bava. I've seen Zombie and it wasn't great. Last night I watched Bay of Blood and thought it sucked hard. The only foriegn horror flick I really like is Argento's Suspiria. Whats with this stuff. What do you guys think. Have I just seen the wrong flicks or do you like that crap?

[Skaboy18]

I'm in 100% agreeance. I don't like very much foreign horror except for Dario's films. I bought Zombie and City of the Walking Dead and I don't like either. Bay of Blood was alright, but I'd take Friday 13th over it anyday.

[redroostr]

Italian horror films are definitely an acquired taste. They are nothing like American horror movies, so if you like say Dawn of the Dead, it doesn't mean your gonna like Zombies. Bad dubbing, sometimes worse acting, and plots that make no sense are trademarks of these films. I myself own a lot of Fulci and Argento flicks, the former for gore and the latter for style. Suspiria is probably the closest to American horror movies that Argento has come. So you probably wouldn't like his other films or any other Fulci flicks either. But i gotta say that the gore and violence in these films makes American flicks seem like Disney movies, and for me, thats where their appeal lies.

[Freddy is God]

I would say the closest any of these foreign directors ever came to being American was Argento's "Trauma." It's an okay movie, and it's on TV all the time, so check it out.

[AntonioDelLago]

My favorite Italian horror films are: Mario Bava's BLACK SUNDAY and BLACK SABBATH; Dario Argento's SUSPIRIA, CREEPERS and TRAUMA; and the British psychothrillers AFRAID OF THE DARK, DEAD OF NIGHT (1945), BUNNY LAKE IS MISSING and THE NANNY.

[Carl Zittrer]

I somewhat agree with your contempt for Italian horror films. Two things that almost always detract from Italian horror flicks for me are, first and foremost, their tendency to use the worst possible music (the grating, cheesy disco/Goblins-type trash). They seem incapable of composing decent horror film music.
Secondly, the dubbing jobs are usually truly abysmal. That's not the fault of the filmmakers, but the people who end up distributing the films in North America.

To give credit where it's due, Argento and Bava are pretty outstanding visual stylists, which usually mitigates their inadequacies in other areas. Fulci on the other hand, based on the films of his that I've seen, is a complete hack.

[This message has been edited by Carl Zittrer (edited 07-13-2001).]

[JustOneFix]

Lucio Fulci's Touch of Death is my personal favourite. I don't know if Touch of Death is an accurate translation, the version that i saw was dubbed twice-the dialogue was in Russian, but you could hear French in the background. The French title was Soupcon De Morte which translates to Touch of Death... Brett Halsey plays a respectable and stylish gentleman who dates single women only to chop them up when the right moment comes, and then feed the body to pigs.. It's gory and very tongue-in-cheek. I don't want to give away too much, you gotta see this movie to believe it!
Also, i thought Dario Argento's Profondo Rosso (Deep Red, aka The Hatchet Murders) was pretty amusing..You all know this one, right?

[Brock Landers]

I just picked up the original version of "Nightwatch" on DVD, and it is really cool. It is a Dutch film that was remade into an American film starring Ewan McGregor & Nick Nolte. The original is way better than the remake...

[jason13th]

you know I am from Belgium so I am from Europe of course and I think that the horror films coming from Europe are gorier than your American films.
But a lot of blood does not make a film good, no, most of time they are more stylish and more atmospheric.
think about : Argento, Bava ( son and father) or even Fulci.
They are good technicians enough to scare us, and you feel the European touch each time you watch a good film coming from Europe.
Here are some good films coming from Europe ( although most of them come from Italy )
1. Suspiria
2. Inferno
3. The House By The Cementary
4. Zombie and so on.
Gialli are really great to watch because of the style, the main problem for the films coming from Italy is the dubbing which is really bad for you American.
I know that is not easy.
You have some good films coming from Australia and New Zealand
1. Next Of Kin ( aka Return To Montclare )
2. The Ugly ( New Zealand )
3. Aberration
4. Cut ( entertaining and very gory )
there is also another problem :
most of the foreign films are trimmed and you miss a lot.
we do not have that in Europe.

[the-burn-out]

Foreign horror does suck pizowell, sure there are some exceptions (suspiria,picnic at hanging rock) but not enough exceptions. The blood and style thing...hmm what bullshit. The blood in most cases looks so damn fake it looks fucking orange and style can't make up for muddled sounding suck ass dubbing. Take my advice and never buy foreign horror before viewing. Cut? Cut!!! that is a piece of shit!

[WritnGuy]

Italian giallo films can be very entertaining, or extremely confusing. They're like Hitchcock films with uneven plots. It's the style that matters. And sometimes, the music is actually pretty good. One of my favorites is "Next Victim" aka "Next!" aka "The Blade of the Ripper" aka some other long name I don't feel like looking up. (These movies have too many aliases.) The plot is slightly inconherent, the dubbing is weak, but there's style and terrific music (particularly during the end credits--amazing). Movies like that aren't whole masterpieces; there are different parts of them taken as ingenious.

Carl, don't be so rough on Goblin. Their music is, at times, amazing. The "Suspiria" score is almost timeless. If anything, no one is being that adventurous today. Nowadays, almost every movie has to have a pan over the setting, set to alterna-rock-pop God-knows-what, and it gets the audience to feel absolutely nothing.

Movies like "Anatomy" (or, well, "Anatomy" in particular) are the exception. Foreign movies trying so desperately to be American, they come across foolish and restrained. If "Anatomy" didn't worry about capturing that "American feel," I'm sure it would have been a better film than what it ended up to be. Instead, it was decent, with a few scares.

BTW, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who thought Fulci's "Zombie" was weak. Besides on rushed zombie carnage in the end, and the infamous eye and splinter scene...the movie was a lot of driving around in the jungle to me.

Anyhoo, I recommend "Funny Games," a Dutch thriller, for anyone who's lost faith in foreign horror. It's one of the most psychologically brutal films I've ever seen. And better than any American fare I've come across in a long time.

[AntonioDelLago]

I also loved George Sluizer's 1988 version of THE VANISHING. Very scary! The American remake paled in comparison. Also, the 1955 version of DIABOLIQUE by Henri-Georges Clouzot. The Americanized remake was okay, and featured one of Sharon Stone's best performances.

[This message has been edited by AntonioDelLago (edited 07-14-2001).]

[Carl Zittrer]

Antonio,
You're right about THE VANISHING being great (it's one of my top 4 films - not just horror - of all time), but I don't think most of the kids around here, having cut their horror-watching teeth on the likes of the "Friday" and "Scream" series, or, for the purposes of this topic, the films of Argento, Bava, Fulci, et al, would have much appreciation for it. That's not to disparage the aforementioned genre examples (they have value in their own way), but the horror of THE VANISHING exists on a much more resonant psychological level, not through gore or jump-out-of-the-closet scares. It's bound to disappoint the average "eager for some blood n' tits" horror buff.
The same goes for WritnGuy's discerning choice of FUNNY GAMES, the exceptionally elegant Austrian thriller directed by Michael Haneke. Its unsettling effect also works mainly through suggestion and implication, but it might have just enough visual thrills to please those with short attention spans. If you like "Funny Games", try to get your hands on two other outstanding and similarly grim movies by Haneke, THE SEVENTH CONTINENT (1989), and BENNY'S VIDEO (1992). Neither one is on video here in North America, other than from quasi-illicit sources. Those three movies, an impressive showcase of the director's talents, are among the most disturbing movies of the past 20 years.

WritnGuy, true enough about SUSPIRIA's score. DEEP RED's music also worked quite well. Too often though, the upbeat electronic rock compositions that are so prevalent in Italian films only serve as harsh, incongruous distractions from the action. Music in any movie should supplement the on-screen proceedings, not overwhelm them. Other than in rare cases, a rhythmic disco score only undermines potential tension.

[WritnGuy]

"Funny Games" seemed to me like "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" (another favorite of mine). By the end of the film, you feel like you've just watched ninety minutes of people being chopped to bits with a blood-soaked chainsaw. In reality, so much of it is implied, murders or violence occurring right below the camera's view, or to the side, somehow enough in and out of frame that you know what's happening but don't actually see it.

In "Funny Games," the only real death seen on-screen (and I think, for a direct purpose) was the shotgun "death". (Don't want to ruin the movie for anyone, but you know what I mean.) And I think the audience sees that happen not out of exploitation, but because it's what any emotionally involved viewer would want, and it makes the subsequent scenes all the more frustrating. Every other murder is off-screen. The camera is there, the audience is watching the scene, but they aren't seeing anyone being killed.

Follow that up with emotionally brutal scenes, such as the long sequence of silence with the camera watching two characters sit on opposite sides of a room and deal with their anguish taking over them, until there is an absolute explosion of emotion. I think "Funny Games" is a rare example of being terribly violent with very little on-screen violence.

As far as music is concerned, I couldn't agree more that a bad score is a distraction to a film. Movies like "Halloween, "Friday th 13th," "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" (in its own little way), "Psycho," etc. have amazing musical scores, and the on-goings in the film are only enhanced by that. Then there are movies like "Assault on Precinct 13" (sorry) with weak musical scores that only seem to get in the way. I think that applies to US-based films and foreign films.

[uzumaki]

Im sorry, but currently today where the horror genre stands, foreign horror movies are much greater in quality and originality. I love these movies as they are not constantly the same film all over again. The Italian horror/giallo films from the mid-60's to mid 80's will always have a special place in my heart, because they are so insane and stylish. Yes, they are over the top and some don't make sense, but that is the fun with these films. Style over substance, I wont deny that, but I always get great enjoyment while watching these films. The greats from Italy are of course Argento, Bava, and Fulci. All of these guys have made films in the horror genre worthy of the word "classic". Mario Bava made BLACK SUNDAY and BLOOD AND BLACK LACE, Dario made DEEP RED, SUSPIRIA and TENEBRE, and Fulci made THE BEYOND, and HOUSE BY THE CEMENTARY. All of these films are brilliant, and are not what I consider a waste of time.
Good foreign horror is regularly coming out of Japan, and Spain, these days, with the RING trilogy from Japan, and THE NAMELESS and THESIS from Spain, highlights from these countries. Also check-out Dario's latest NONHOSONNO (aka SLEEPLESS) - its a good return to form.
Overall, I think foriegn horror is fantastic, and I love watching a new unknown film make it big, due to its originality.

OH, also check out the Korean film TELL ME SOMETHING. A brilliant horror film.

[Carl Zittrer]

WritnGuy, you're damned right. The music from ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13 is pretty cheesy; very Italianesque with the synthesizers and foot-tapping rhythm. Good comparison.
For the most part though, I think North American horror filmmakers (especially those of the 70s) have a much better grasp of what constitutes effective music than the Italians. Of course the most obnoxious trend in Hollywood today is that every big release (including horror movies) has to be accompanied by an annoying, readily marketable top-40 bubble-gum soundrack.

One of the most chilling moments in FUNNY GAMES, especially after repeated viewings of the film, takes place near the beginning. The family is driving past the neighbor's cottage and sees the neighbor standing, seemingly chatting amicably, with two strangers. Innocuous enough the first time you see it, but upon watching it again one realizes how obediently and robotically the neighbor is behaving, obviously trying to silently convey to his passing friends the impending peril of the situation. The subtlety of the terror (the way it resides beneath normal appearances) is one of the things that makes FUNNY GAMES so deeply disturbing.

[pizowell]

Picnic At Hanging Rock is an awesome flick burnout! You rock!

[WritnGuy]

Wow, Carl, I never noticed that scene towards the beginning before. I wish I did, your mere explanation of it sounds scary. I'll have to rent it again.

BTW, I'm relieved to not be lambasted for my critique on "Assualt on Precinct 13"'s music. After hearing people praise it as "effective" and a "masterpiece," I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought it was like the score to one of those Italian post-apocalyptic action movies.

[malaria]

Belgian film Daughters of Darkness(1971) is my absolute favourite film. Lush!

[Bearazz]

I've haven't written in a while..but..I just ordered Ring and Ring 2, cuz i've only heard good things about them and read good things in Fangoria. Found a cool website where to find them, if you want to know you can write me at bjacobs@dailyherald.com
Bearazz

[jason13th]

Hey Malaria I am from Belgium and I have never heard about the film you have mentioned what is it about ?
Films coming from Japan have a lot of good reviews but they are not released in my country and I don't know why ?
Cure, The Ring 1 and 2 and others ...
Aberration was really cool and original ( comes from New Zealand such as The Ugly )
The Ugly, this the story of a serial killer named Simon Cartright who's cured by a psychanalist, she tries to discover his personnality !! it was chilling !!
Dario Argento, Fulci and Bava were great, I do not understand why most of you seems not to like them ?

[Brock Landers]

I recently picked up Mario Bava's 1972 film called "Baron Blood", and really enjoyed it. It's the italian version with some really cool sets and background stuff. It's mostly about this sadistic fucker who likes to torture people in his castle. Years later his young ancestor reads some incantations "Evil Dead"-style and the evil Baron comes back to life to torture and kill some more after his own violent death at the hands of a witch long ago. Lots of fun and really well made. Definitely worth checking out for any fans of Italian horror or Mario Bava...

[malaria]

Much obliged Jason13th: Harry Kumel's Daughters of Darkness(1971)
aka Le Rouge aux Levres (The Red Lips)

A honeymooning couple stay at a European holiday resort and check in at a posh hotel. It's the slow season they are told by the proprietor so they have the whole hotel to themselves. But not for long. A gorgeous woman and her faithful assistant arrive and check in under the name "Elisabeth Bathory" and the proprietor tells her that an ethereal woman looking exactly like her stayed at the hotel thirty odd years ago. "My mother perhaps" she replies.
Delphine Seyrig's Bathory is the best acting ever. She oozes ethereal mystique.
It's the definitive Elizabeth Bathory story and a definate must-see for horror fans. It's also got one of the creepiest sountracks going. Track it down!!!!