Who agrees (or disagrees) that Wes Craven is overrated in terms of media perception?

[I Am]

Ok, I think this subject may create a lot of different opinions and that's why I'll like to post it. Not to take away from the few good horror films that he's made, but I hate how major media outlets like magazines and TV hail Wes Craven as a horror authority, specially since he made Scream. Although I liked the first one marginally, I thought the sequels sucked, and I think its due in part to the fact that Craven is more than comfortable with the praise imposed on him by this new generation of horror fans that think horror movies are the unholy trinity of Scream/IKWYDLS/Urban Legend. And though I think for many young people these movies become a way to get acquainted with older and superior horror movies, I think the rule has been the opposite. What I'm saying is that Craven has become sort of like what I like to say a "family" horror director. I mean, he even now disowns Last house on the Left, one of his few great horror movies. He must be grateful that he came through for Nightmare on Elm Street, another of his few decent films, because I read that at the time he made it he was flat broke. No wonder, doing crap like The Swamp Thing and The Hills Have Eyes 2. So, what do you say, is Craven getting far too much recognition? I personally think a Romero or a Cronenberg is a better filmaker than he is.

[Jewbo]

i totaly agree. he has come out with more crap than good.

[Ghostface 2000]

I agree with Jewbo.

[JDog83]

Last House on the Left was terrible! I'd disown it if I were him too. Off the top of my head his only good films were Nightmare on Elm St 1 and 7 as well as Scream. Romero is a hack anyways and all of his films, aside from the original Dead movie, were awful.

Also, don't put down new horror fans.....they aren't as dumb as you might think.

[This message has been edited by JDog83 (edited 11-05-2001).]

[pedro]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by I Am:
I personally think a Romero or a Cronenberg is a better filmaker than he is.</font>

Duh, so you should!

[horrorbuff20]

I see what your saying, but I would have to disagree. I think that twenty years from now, Scream will be remembered as a classic that spawned a whole new type of horror film. Whether or not this is a good or a bad thing is besides the point, Scream was one of the most influential movies of the 1990's. Ten years before this, Wes made a gem in 1984, A Nightmare on Elm Street that started a whole new wave a horror then, the heroine who fought back and the killer with a personality. Something that very few horror movies before this had and nearly all of them do today. Wes is a horror movie icon that is just now getting the respect and attention that he deserves after 30 years in the business. Bravo, Wes. I hope more people stand up for you too.

[Emo]

He's very overrated personally I don't think Scream and NOES are that great ( both get 3/4 or so )
I liked The Hills Have Eyes a lot and People Under the Stairs

[Fulci]

Wes is the master. Cherish his movies.

[ParileseMonster]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fulci:
Wes is the master. Cherish his movies.</font>

Let me get this strait, Your name is Fulci and your giving master props to craven? Ok what did I just step into?????

[ParileseMonster]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by horrorbuff20:
I see what your saying, but I would have to disagree. I think that twenty years from now, Scream will be remembered as a classic that spawned a whole new type of horror film. Whether or not this is a good or a bad thing is besides the point, Scream was one of the most influential movies of the 1990's. Ten years before this, Wes made a gem in 1984, A Nightmare on Elm Street that started a whole new wave a horror then, the heroine who fought back and the killer with a personality. Something that very few horror movies before this had and nearly all of them do today. Wes is a horror movie icon that is just now getting the respect and attention that he deserves after 30 years in the business. Bravo, Wes. I hope more people stand up for you too.</font>

http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif I am more convinced now that the world will end very, very, soon! http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

[Fulci]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ParileseMonster:
Let me get this strait, Your name is Fulci and your giving master props to craven? Ok what did I just step into?????</font>

The Twilight Zone? Do do do do, do do do do

[Scully1888]

Wes Craven has produced a shitload of good movies, not just A Nightmare On Elm Street, Wes Craven's New Nightmare and the Scream trilogy. Allow me to elaborate.

LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT (1972) - Classic, disturbing movie.
THE HILLS HAVE EYES (1977) - Pretty damn sweet.
A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET (1984) - The best horror movie of all time, in my opinion.
SHOCKER (1989) - Not a bad wee film.
THE PEOPLE UNDER THE STAIRS (1991) - I liked this.
WES CRAVEN'S NEW NIGHTMARE (1994) - A true classic. Craven once again reinvents the horror genre.
SCREAM (1996) - And yet again.
SCREAM 2 (1997) - Slightly better than the original, in my opinion.
SCREAM 3 (2000) - Not as good as the original, but by no means bad.

So there you go. That's not to say that he hasn't made any bad movies, but you name me a horror director that has done as many movies as Craven has (24), and made every movie great.

[ParileseMonster]

Scratch the Scream dude those all suck a used kotex and the blood isnt even as good as that of a kotex ok? You want to know a director that has done more than a crappy 24 and did them with the the best of his ability and all of his heart without selling out like a dumb ass??? Ok man
Alfred Hitchcock, you wanted to know there you go!!! http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif and double http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif he he he

[Fulci]

Ah Hitchcock, if only you could have stopped all those Psycho sequels and the remake.

[be very afraid]

I really question why people who like horror films dig Craven. His films are too cutesy for my tastes. Romero is creative. Craven is not. How anyone could say that Romero's only good film is Night is beyond me. Dawn's social commentary alone makes it great. The ONLY even decent film Craven made was Last House. Scream is pure pandering crap.

[be very afraid]

I take part of that back. Hills is also pretty good.

[Fulci]

The Serpent and the Rainbow was good.

[ParileseMonster]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fulci:
Ah Hitchcock, if only you could have stopped all those Psycho sequels and the remake.</font>

Poor Hitchcock is probally rolling in his grave still!!!!

[I Am]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JDog83:
Last House on the Left was terrible! I'd disown it if I were him too. Off the top of my head his only good films were Nightmare on Elm St 1 and 7 as well as Scream. Romero is a hack anyways and all of his films, aside from the original Dead movie, were awful.

Also, don't put down new horror fans.....they aren't as dumb as you might think.

[This message has been edited by JDog83 (edited 11-05-2001).]</font>

JDog, I never put new horror fans down in my comment. Notice that I said that many of them actually have taken these new movies as a way to look for other movies in the genre, I think that's part of the love for the genre, checking out other stuff apart from the usual mainstream fare. But it is true as well that many people only bother to watch movies like Urban Legend or IKWYDLS. If you talk with them, you notice
that they don't really care too much about the genre, the appeal for them is mainly because Courtney Cox or Sarah Michelle Gellar or Freddie Prinze Jr. is in them.

[I Am]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Scully1888:
Wes Craven has produced a shitload of good movies, not just A Nightmare On Elm Street, Wes Craven's New Nightmare and the Scream trilogy. Allow me to elaborate.

LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT (1972) - Classic, disturbing movie.
THE HILLS HAVE EYES (1977) - Pretty damn sweet.
A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET (1984) - The best horror movie of all time, in my opinion.
SHOCKER (1989) - Not a bad wee film.
THE PEOPLE UNDER THE STAIRS (1991) - I liked this.
WES CRAVEN'S NEW NIGHTMARE (1994) - A true classic. Craven once again reinvents the horror genre.
SCREAM (1996) - And yet again.
SCREAM 2 (1997) - Slightly better than the original, in my opinion.
SCREAM 3 (2000) - Not as good as the original, but by no means bad.

So there you go. That's not to say that he hasn't made any bad movies, but you name me a horror director that has done as many movies as Craven has (24), and made every movie great.</font>

Well, like I said, I think that Craven has done some pretty good movies. Actually, I think that only 3 of his movies are seminal for horror movie history, and those would be Last House on the Left, The Hills Have Eyes and Nightmare on Elm Street. The People Under the Stairs, New Nightmare and Scream are decent efforts, but they have lots of flaws in my opinion. The People Under the Stairs has a good premise but Craven doesn't have enough conviction that the plot can be truly horrifying. I mean, sometimes the movie feels like a comedy. New Nightmare is good but not as scary as the first one. Also, the reality within reality thing of the movie isn't original. It has been done before so I don't see how Craven "revolutionized" horror with that movie. And Scream for better or worse brought media fascination with horror movies but on a very superficial level.

Now let's go to the bad, which is plenty: Deadly Blessing, Swamp Thing, The Hills Have Eyes 2, Deadly Friend, Vampire in Brooklyn, Music of the Heart (I think nobody can disagree with this). I contend with your other choices: Shocker was pretty crappy, a lame attempt to update Freddy for the 80s. It didn't work. The Serpent and the Rainbow was pretty boring if you ask me. More like an anthropological view of voodoo than a horror movie. That's not necessarily bad but I didn't feel the tension of dread in the movie. Scream 2 and 3 are two of the most wretched sequels ever, I refuse to even explain why.

So there it goes, like I said before, it's not that Craven is a bad director, it's just that he's way too overrated in my opinion. Obviously I don't expect to change anyone's mind about it. To each its own.

[horrorbuff20]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Scully1888:
Wes Craven has produced a shitload of good movies, not just A Nightmare On Elm Street, Wes Craven's New Nightmare and the Scream trilogy. Allow me to elaborate.

LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT (1972) - Classic, disturbing movie.
THE HILLS HAVE EYES (1977) - Pretty damn sweet.
A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET (1984) - The best horror movie of all time, in my opinion.
SHOCKER (1989) - Not a bad wee film.
THE PEOPLE UNDER THE STAIRS (1991) - I liked this.
WES CRAVEN'S NEW NIGHTMARE (1994) - A true classic. Craven once again reinvents the horror genre.
SCREAM (1996) - And yet again.
SCREAM 2 (1997) - Slightly better than the original, in my opinion.
SCREAM 3 (2000) - Not as good as the original, but by no means bad.

So there you go. That's not to say that he hasn't made any bad movies, but you name me a horror director that has done as many movies as Craven has (24), and made every movie great.</font>

I couldn't agree more. I'm glad to see I'm not the Craven fan out there.

[trashing qbert]

come on, Scream is a recipe, and a cheap one. The first one was watchable,
the second one was an insult to intelligent being, and I spared some money not seeing the last one , thank you.

but The serpent and the rainbow was interesting as is last use of the Freddy character.

[flatliner]

Craven has now become a safe horror director.
Ever since Scream, he has become more and more mainstream.

Transcript of a conversation heard in Harvey Wienstein's office(the head of Miramax)

Weinstein:Come on Wes, just let us put your name on Dracula 2000. It will bring in the Scream crowd. You don't even have to go on set. We will just say that you produced it.

Craven:I don't know Harvey. After my masterpiece Music of the heart with Merryl Streep, I want to get away from horror flicks you know.

W:I got a big paycheck with your name on it Wes. Come on, you know you want it.

C: Allright then.

(sound of a zipper being pulled down)

W: Ahhh yeessss. That's good Wes. keep on sucking. Who's your daddy now bitch. Aaahhh.

The Scream trilogy brought him the attention of Entertainement weekly and other crappy magazines while he turned away from the horror crowd. I will never consider the Scream series as horror flicks. Some said that they were horror comedies. Guess what: I wasn't scared nor did I laughed one single moment. They were only showcase for truly bad actors and completly shitty storylines.

Self-references about horror do not a scary movie make.

[Candyman'sBitch]

Wes Craven or Mess Cravin'?

His shit is good for Thriller/Suspense genre
next to Hand That Rocks The cradle, Single White Female wit a mask on the bitch n shit
But Hardcore horror hell no.
He's like the Puff Daddy of Horror
like P Diddy of "Hardcore Rap" WAY TOO COMERCIAL!!!

[malaria]

Am I the only one who hated New Nightmare?

[DeadByDawn]

I don't like Craven very much, but the first Nightmare was pretty good. I don't hate this guy, but he just isn't one of my favourites.

[Dehydrator]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by malaria:
Am I the only one who hated New Nightmare? </font>

Nada, I think this movie sucks ass too. It's long and it's boring and in the end it's the same old special-effect ridden crap that brought the series down. ( The only freddy movie I like even less is the festering Pt.4 ).

Craven did some good stuff in his day ( Nightmare on Elm Street I & III, Hills have Eyes, Serpent and the Rainbow, People under the Stairs, Scream ) but it seems for every decent movie he makes, he makes one complete atrocious ( Hills have Eyes II, New Nightmare, Carneval of Souls, Scream 3 ).

So I guess I have to agree: Craven is overrated. But I don't mind media perception too much, what do they know? Right now, I'm curious what's next up for Craven.

[Seph]

I don't mind Wes, he's overrated, I'd hardly call him a "master."

But he's better than many, and he's getting paid, I can't hate him too much for that...

[AlienClown]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dehydrator:
[B]Right now, I'm curious what's next up for Craven.</font>
Alice, being released 2003.

[FeydRautha]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dehydrator:
...but it seems for every decent movie he makes, he makes one complete atrocious ( Hills have Eyes II, New Nightmare, Carneval of Souls, Scream 3 ). </font>

Didn't he just produce the Carnival of Souls re-make? I rented CoS because A) it had Craven's name above the title (yeah, you can call me a sucker) and B) I'm a big fan of the original.

After sitting through that piece of unconscionable dross, I wanted to stuff the director (Adam Grossman) feet-first through a stump-grinder.

I lose faith in Craven, who was once nearly at the top of my Fave Directors list, when he slaps his name on steaming piles of waste like this just to cash in. I still love his old stuff...I just wish he'd get back to form.

[Dehydrator]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by FeydRautha:
Didn't he just produce the Carnival of Souls re-make?

</font>

Yeah, I got confused about that too. Indeed, it seems like he only produced it but I think the movie has touches of craven as a director ( dream sequences, the underwater opening ). Hell, even if Craven didn't direct it, if he would have any sense of self-protection he'd force the distributors to take his name from the cover. I got lured into renting this by the same way you did ( Craven's name on the suprisingly cool cover) and it was one of the worst choices I ever did in rentals. I'm curious about the original, I hope this remake wasn't in it's vain.

As for ALICE, from what I gather I have to agree with the majority of the schmoes on the current-upcoming-horrormovieboard. Craven just ain't the man to make a movie about Alice in Wonderland. Least of all, when the bases aren't the original story but some video-game. I like the Idea a lot but please, let someone else direct it!

[FeydRautha]

Dehydrator: DEFINITELY go rent the original Carnival of Souls. It's miles better than its re-make; very moody, very subtle lighting, and a few creepy shocks that make you jump.

It had a shoe-string budget, and most of the actors are unknowns, except for the lead actress, I think she worked off-Broadway. The director himself played the shadowy mysterious character who's following her around. The sound quality isn't that good. But it's still an excellent, effective horror flick.

[Jason Voorhees]

Craven sucks, At most 30% of the movies he has ever made are any good. NOES 1,3 7, were good as well as last house on the left and people under the stairs. Evrything else was shit.