Should Victor Salva still be allowed to direct movies?

[JoBlo]

*** FOR ADULTS ONLY -- SERIOUS READERS ONLY ***

I'm not sure how many of you already knew this, but I was pretty sure that this would bring about some decent discussion.

Writer/director Victor Salva (CLOWNHOUSE, POWDER) is a convicted child molestor (he apparently videotaped himself having oral sex with a 12-year old actor in California in the late 80s). He was tried, sentenced to 3 years in prison, served 15 months, and completed parole in 1992.

Many have said that he should never be able to direct again. This week, his latest film called JEEPERS CREEPERS is coming out. Do you think that he should have the right to film movies or that he should never be able to work in Hollywood again?

I will toss my hat into the ring by saying that I believe that he has the right to create films, if he chooses to do so, because he was already convicted of his crimes and served the time for them. Otherwise, it would be like someone blaming you for the rest of your life for a crime which you once committed, and that wouldn't be too forgiving.

NOW...I'm not saying that what he did was "okay", because it most certainly wasn't (and was an EXTREMELY disgusting and fucked up thing to have done), but I don't believe that it's right to stop someone from doing what they want, because of their mistakes of the past...I don't know...it's a difficult issue...

What are your opinions on this?

[XCoRyX]

my exact thoughts joblo he made a BIG mistake and might have paid for them and even if not he served which lets him be a free man in the world and why not let him make movies or something hes good at which is movies again?dont spit on him forever unless ur friend/family of winters.

[XCoRyX]

and i forgot to add a new saying i learned-

LOVE THE MOVIE NOT THE MOVIE MAKER
OR AS THIS ORIGINATED FROM A FILM WITH MACKENZIE ASTIN LOVE THE MUSIC NOT THE MUSICIAN

[Lindsey]

He is a sick guy but he does good movies.Cory is right.Love the movie and not the Movie Maker.Salva is a pervert and I sure as hell wouldn't work with him,but to answer your question.Yes.He's done his time,and he can learn from his mistakes.

[This message has been edited by Lindsey (edited 08-28-2001).]

[SUPER LOVER MAN]

Salva is a sick man for what he has done, but he does make good movies, so i think he should keep makin them.

[APzombie]

yes he did a very discusting act, yes i dont like him too much as a person, but i dont like Marylin Manson as a person either, but hes good at his music.

[Horror whore]

Whoops..I'm not exactly an adult but I think that was a disgusting thing to have done to a boy...BUT since he served time for his mistake and makes good movies I say keep them coming...

[This message has been edited by Horror whore (edited 08-28-2001).]

[Dehydrator]

Sorry but in my opinion the only job this guy should ever be able to get is cleaning toilets in prison.

Think about Nathan Forest: A whole lot of people are waiting for Salva's New Movie to come out. How will he feel? Certainly not well. Is 3 years really enough for a crime like that? Is there EVER enough? I mean he ruined the life of a 12-year old! I don't think that damadge will ever be done justice.

I know, a lot of lives are ruined or ended by say, Traffic Accidents but what Salva did is just too much. Sending every child molester to jail for life surely doesn't stop other Child-Molesters but at least they aren't able to do something like that again!

For me, I'll skip Jeepers Creepers because I know that I'll never be able to differ between the man and the movie.

[The Evil Demonic Zombie]

That's pretty harsh dehydrator...I am all against the perversion of child molestation, but grudges against people are a waste of metaphysical energy. How do know what he feels for his errors? Maybe he's changed, maybe not...don't think I am backing up some sick shit like taking the sexual freedom of a minor only 12 years of age! I do beleive in forgiving though, it's like the Tool song the Grudge...I also very much beleive it is possible to see through the man that made the movie and still have a good film experience. Music of the musicman.

[nightmareman]

What the man did was very wrong but, his actions have nothing to do with the movie, he paid the price for his crime and as a person I have no respect for him, but he is still a very well director and I plan on seeing his film on opening day. Just becuase someone does something fucked up doesnt mean Ill never watch and enjoy a movie they make.

[Horror Hippie]

If he keeps making good movies, why stop? The best thing he or the studio could do is put a clause somewhere, or at least come to an agreement that no children under a certain age will be allowed in his movies, or on the set.

Maybe if he wants to play it safe, go under a pseudo name when he directs (not Alan Smithee though).

As for Jeepers Creepers, I'll be seeing it, as it looks real good.

[Dehydrator]

Hey EDZ, I know that song too and I too believe in forgiving. But who are WE to forgive Salva? Noone of us has been molested by him. We are standing outside, we aren't affected by his crime. We just have no right to forgive something that isn't done to us. I would really like to know Nathan Forrest Winter's opinion about this. He's the one who's life is ruined. If he forgives Salva, I will think of seeing the movie. But I'm sure he can't. For me, it's more like that Downset song "Ritual" : "Physical Rape is psychological murder".

[This message has been edited by Dehydrator (edited 08-29-2001).]

[PrinceOfDarkness]

Couldn't have said it better myself joblo although people have a tendency to never let shit go,they just keep pressing it on and on,enough is enough already.And like the one invidual said in the other forum on the Jeepers Creepers topic,"oh just spend your money on the movie so he can buy a mansion or 2",hey,I say all the power to him,Jeepers Creepers looks like the shit and I hope it makes him enough to buy 4 mansions and 3 ferrari's cuz it looks to be the best horror movie around since the Scream series,(that's not including The Others or hopefully soon to be released House of 1000 Corpses).The guy served his time now let him get on with his life directing hopefully more kick-ass horror flicks.

[This message has been edited by PrinceOfDarkness (edited 08-29-2001).]

[izombie]

His crime was really not related to making another movie. He did his prison time (seems a little light for such a nasty crime)

He probably should refrain from making any movies with youngsters though and should be registered as a sex offender.

Maybe the fact that he is still directing after what he did shows you how jaded Hollywood (and people) are.....the "well it didn't happen to me" attitude always prevails.


In fact it is amazing this "conversation" is even taking place, had Salva been a regular schmoe off the street everyone would probably want to lynch his ass.

And now I sit here with the dilemma of which I should see the movie or not. I didn't know Salva's past nor did I care who was directing Jeepers Creepers until I joined this board. AHHHHHHH

Maybe somebody should just post the ending...... ;-)just kidding

[edlover691]

I FIND MYSELF ANGRY AND CONFUSED. IF THAT WERE MY CHILD I WOULD BOYCOTT HIS FILMS, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE A RIGHT OUT OF TWO WRONGS. I AGREE WITH JOBLO WHEN HE SAID HE DID THE TIME. HOPEFULLY IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN AND WE CAN JUST ENJOY HIS CRAFT AND NOT HIS PLEASURES.

[Antonio]

Since he served his time, there is nothing that can legally prevent him from directing films. Salva is a talented filmmaker, as evident in CLOWNHOUSE, and should be allowed to pursue a career in the movie industry if he so chooses. However, I don't think that pedophiles are capable of being psychologically rehabilitated. Therefore, Salva's films should not include actors under the age of 18.

One final note: As much as I am sympathetic towards the plight of young Nathan Forrest Winters, he needs to seek psychiatric counseling as well...and he should question his own parents concerning their whereabouts when he was lying on the casting couch.

[psycho-man_666]

Okay now I gotta say something and this as nothing to do with the fact that is a good director cause seriously I don't care. I saw powder and I thought it was great. But in that case I don't think it make a difference if he's talented or not. What he did to this kids is unforgivable. I mean we're not talkin about a drug store robbery. HE DESTROY THE LIFE OF A LITTLE KID BY MAKING HIM ORAL SEX!!!

He may have served LEGALLY his time but for me he will never suffer enough for what he did. As a matter of fact castration should have been is punishment.

[Salamar]

Well Woody Allen did bad things too (with his adopted daughter...), but we are still watching all his movies, right?
Salva is a bastard but he paid for his crime and i think he is a good director, by the way i read the interview with him at Creatures Corner, and guys go check it out now, the guy seems to be so normal and nice, it was really scary to know that he was a child molester.

[Dehydrator]

Most rapists/molestors seem nice and kind...
It would be cool if the Interviewer asked him something about his past. Maybe that would clear up.

[Salamar]

i was just waiting for this question, but i think nobody will dare asking it, i want to know what Salva thinks of the subject.

[Antonio]

Why aren't people asking the same question concerning convicted rapist Mike Tyson? Why should he be allowed to participate in the sport which made him famous? His female victim is just as much a VICTIM as NFW.

[countchocula]

Good point, Antonio.

[psycho-man_666]

WOW one thing is sure if you guys think that three years is a good sentence for what he've done I would certainly not want you to take part of the justice.

[psycho path]

Fuck Salva,his films are the only good thing.

[The Dead Raven]

Despite Slava's now well known history I'm still looking forward to seeing Jeepers Creepers even though it's director is a fucking creep. Whoever brought up the fact that Salva should not be allowed to work with young actors under the age of 18 has a good point. Yes he was convicted of the crime and he did do time as a punishment,but that doesn't change that he did what he did and people should not forget that. However despite my personal feelings on the guy himself I will admit that Victor Salva does have some talent when it comes to movies.

Oh yeah and somebody on the Upcoming Horror Movies board said that people shouldn't see Jeepers Creepers because you will be putting cash in the pocket of a pedophile. Even though that is true we have all at one point or another put cash in the pocket of some asshole in the movie industry who didn't deserve our money. So I see no real reasoning behind that argument and boycotting that movie wouldn't make sense to me.

[Dehydrator]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Antonio:
Why aren't people asking the same question concerning convicted rapist Mike Tyson? Why should he be allowed to participate in the sport which made him famous? His female victim is just as much a VICTIM as NFW.</font>

Maybe that's a question of fame. Tyson was way more famous (so, more people became rich through him) than Salva. But you're right if we say: Sexual Abusers have no place in our Entertaiment, we must say this regarding Salva as well as Mike Tyson, Woody Allen or Gary Glitter.

Winters should be the one to judge Salva. 15 Months? I wouldn't be too angry if he shot the bastard in the head.

[!MorganOnyx!]

Let him do what he wants. Yeah, what he did was disgusting etc etc, but all i know is that when i was 12 i was old enough to know that doing something like that is wrong. What was FORREST WINTERS thinking?! "Sure! I'll suck your dick!" He didn't have to do anything with SALVA. He must've wanted to do it!!!!!

[psycho path]

Theres a good point!

[Requiem-for-a-Dream]

I can't understand why everyone is saying "he served his time", he served 15 months! That's it!!! For fucking up a kids life!
Although I believe he has probably recovered by now and his films are in no way reflecting him as a human being but I hate how a lot of people say he served the time, fucking bullshit. Sorry to be so harsh but I just can't believe this!!!

Matt

[JoBlo]

Well, what I meant by "he served his time" was that he basically did the time which that the courts told him that he needed to do. I, in no way, was defending the actual length of his punishment, just the fact that he apparently did the time that he was asked to do by the state, so what else can you do to the guy??

If you want to talk about JUSTICE in the American legal system, well, holy shit, do I have about a zillion unjust stories for you, including one about an ex-football player who sliced up two people and is now playing golf for a living.

If the court was DUMB enough to believe that the sentence prescribed to the man was long enough to rehabilitate him, who am I to judge? (I just run a dinky movie website...)

Actually, the only thing that does ring a little "off" in this entire thing is that I personally don't know if he has been rehabilitated or not. I mean, he obviously declines to talk about it in interviews, but has he ever apologized to the kid and his family? Has he ever gone on record as saying that he was WRONG in what he did and that he's getting some serious help for it...??

THAT scares me more than anything...

[nightmareman]

Good point Joblo, I mean its kinda fucked up our court systems becuase you have people that do pitty shit but seve a lot of time,and people who do drastic shit and get a slap on the hand, but in salvas case I feel he should of served a longer sentence but you cant hold this over his head forever, like someone posted , Tyson is a rapist but still well respected (well kinda lol). so basiclly Im gonna see the movie , becuase his film has nothing tho do with his siccness and I feel that that kids life ainbt ruined like it was said, when I was 12 I could make my own choice to have sex and the 12 year old wasnt forced to suck his dick it was by choice, It would of been differnt if he forced the kid to suck his dick.

[JasonSlasher]

&lt;schmoe bump&gt;

can someone answer this?

[someguy]

Don't get me started on the Canadian court system. Here's a story that took place in Canada:A man was D.U.I. then struck and killed a child. How long is he serving you might ask? EIGHT YEARS. Let me say this about Salva http://www.joblo.com/ubb/biggrin.gifid he do that to any of you? Are you a relative or friend to Winters? Then why care?!!! You weren't involved with that,so why make a big deal about it? I never met Salva or Winters so I don't care. I'll see the movie. I don't care if I give my money to a director who's a pedophile.

That's my two cents.

[countchocula]

I didn't put money in Salva's pocket for making a 12 year old boy suck his cock, I put money in his pocket for making a fine horror film in Jeepers Creepers. Actually, it was Dad's money, but you get the point.

[psycho-man_666]

Someguy what you just said is the worst bullshit I've ever heard. It's a really selfish way of thinking.

[JasonSlasher]

Yea, I'm going to see the movie because I want to and there's no reason I shouldn't, I mean, why should i punish myself?

BTW, countchocula, you're saying that he forced the kid to do that? I'm just wondering, because I want to know how this kid ended up letting this happen...

[APzombie]

should he still make movies: yes
should i like the bastard: hell no, but he is still a good director.

its funny, if you ever get famous or even well respected or well known you can do almost anything and still earn a very good living.

[ParileseMonster]

Crimes like that are not right, but I was not there when he did these things and he did serve time for it, now weather or not it was enough time is not for me to judge. I feel everyone deserves a second chance and I havent heard of him being a repeat offender so let it go. The actors in his movies are willing to work with the guy. Remember we are not God we are people with choices and either choose to watch this movie which is the best Ive seen in a long time or do not watch this movie. The decision is entirely up to you.

[countchocula]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JasonSlasher:
BTW, countchocula, you're saying that he forced the kid to do that? I'm just wondering, because I want to know how this kid ended up letting this happen...</font>

I don't know what exactly happened. Nathan could have been forced or he could have done it willingly. Either way, Jeepers Creepers was a solid horror flick and I'm glad I saw it in theaters.

[Requiem-for-a-Dream]

A twelve year old boy(in my opinion) does not have the kind of know-how to make an educated decision on weather or not he should let Mr. Salva do that to him. 12 years old is a very impresionable age to be, he could have convinced, he could have forced, it doesn't matter, what matters is that he fucked that kids life up. And how do you know that this kids parents were there to guide him and tell him what's right and wrong? If it would have happened to anyone in here, there would be a new thought on the subject.
Joblo, I wasn't attacking you, I was attacking the system, I'm sorry if I offended you in any way.

Matt

[Horror whore]

You know what makes me mad...A few reviewers gave Jeepers Creepers a terrible grade and said Salva has no right making movies after what he did...They said the movie was OK but gave it a terrible grade soley for the purpose for what he did...Thats wrong, and it pisses me off..They should grade movies for movies, not for the people's pasts who are behind the movie..

[ParileseMonster]

This was an innocent opinion and comment that was sadly taken the wrong way! I have deleted it because I will no longer add my opinion to any topic on here that is controversial or with a high chance for a waste of time fight to occur! If It is a horror movie, I will comment but if it is something real hell no, Im not going there again!

[This message has been edited by ParileseMonster (edited 09-13-2001).]

[psycho-man_666]

Parilese I don't wanna go into personal shit but now you don't give me the choice. I know a guy(no name) who have been living these things and he was about that age. So does that mean he's stupid? Does that mean he wanted to do these things? I don't think so. You say ALL kids aren't impressionable today is that it? Well I think you should take a deeper look cause it's not true. It's well known that if a young boy is impress by an older man he will try to imitate him. Now I'm not sayin that the kid wanted to imitate Salva. I'm just sayin that some kids ARE impressionable and that's the way it is.

Don't get me wrong I personally think we should grade movie as what they are: movie. No matter what the director have done or not. I just think it's sad the way some of you guys have turn the situation in favor of Salva.

[Requiem-for-a-Dream]

I had a bad feeling about this topic.

Psycho-man, I agree with you.

Some people are very ignorant and choose to make things sound better than they actually are, that's just the way it is. It was a sick act, it was horrible to do that to a child, that child probably has problems due to this (psychological, not physical). Parilese, what you said was sick. I'm sorry but I choose to let you know how I feel about your comments. Your comments are uneducated and completely unsympathetic.
I believe this topic should be closed at risk of a huge argument to begin. I personally think that this would be a very good topic for a mature adult conversation but I don't think it holds up here.
I hate personal stuff aswell but I felt I needed to comment on that particular post.
Parilese, I'm sorry that I've offended you (which I'm sure I must have, if anyone ever said that to me I'd hate them) but believe me, I'm not trying to start something with you, I'm informing you that maybe you should think about your opinion on the subject. Put yourself in their shoes, try to see it from their points of view. Childhood is full of imitating and complication, it's impossible for a 12 year old to make that kind of decision on his/her own. They don't have the understanding at that point in their life to make that decision. It's a shame when a child is forced into that kind of scenario but the world is a dark place a lot of the time.
I believe Salva to be clean now (or at least I HOPE he is) and I love Jeepers Creepers and give it a very high rating. He also wasn't the only person working on the film, so I couldn't possibly say I hate the movie because he was responsible for it. He's probably a very nice guy now but that still doesn't change what he did.

Matt

[ParileseMonster]

I deleted my response because It really did no good. The above people took me completely the wrong way and It was quite upsetting.

[This message has been edited by ParileseMonster (edited 09-13-2001).]

[ParileseMonster]

I also deleted this one, another response to someone who took me the wrong way. I am proud I stood up for myself and fought for myself! This was so uncalled for. It does not feel good to be judged horribly for something that was not meant to cause such fuss!

[This message has been edited by ParileseMonster (edited 09-13-2001).]

[ParileseMonster]

I deleted this one, I do not give up so easily do I?

[This message has been edited by ParileseMonster (edited 09-13-2001).]

[ParileseMonster]

Deleted this one as well.

[This message has been edited by ParileseMonster (edited 09-13-2001).]

[psycho-man_666]

Parilese I don't think I've been soooo insulting in my post? All I wanted to point out is that you guys seems to turn the situation in favor of Salva. So I'm not gonna start to argue with you about this okay, even if there's a lot of things I would like to tell you.

By the way I know there's more important things to talk about but isn't a topic about Victor Salva? Come on dude don't take it bad. I didn't want to start a war over this. I know that I've said a lot of things that you haven't said it was only(again) to prove what I was sayin.

[psycho-man_666]

Oh yeah moderator don't close this topic just because of that. I promise I won't say anything else about this whole Salva thing. Anyway why should I want to say something else, to get every motherfucking words I'm sayin analize! No thanks.

[Requiem-for-a-Dream]

It's not everything you said. Parilese, it's the fact that you don't care about these things, and don't say you do because I'm reading your post right now. You're right, you have the right to say what you want and so do I. What's wrong with society these days is most turn their heads the other way and say they don't care. You say that a 12 year old was talking about giving head and fucking, didn't that make you feel horrible inside? Isn't it depressing? I just don't understand how a human being can say they don't care about those types of issues. Yes it does happen a lot, I know but that doesn't mean we shouldn't care.
Anyways, I never called you sick, I said what you stated was sick.
And yes Roman Polanski was having sexual incounters with a minor, it was a 13 year old girl I believe. And I never said there was anything wrong with you bringing that up.
You're post was unsympathetic because you don't care.
You're post was uneducated because, guess what, you don't care.
When I stated that a 12 year old can't make that kind of decision, I meant that the child doesn't know enough about our world, enough about his/her self, or enough about growing up and falling in love. Of course a 12 year old is able to give head, they just don't understand the consequences at that age.
Are we finished with this now? I'm finished, so you can keep argueing with me but I will not reply. And you don't intimidate me with your retaliation. Why would you retaliate? I stated my opinion and so did you, lets move on. I've answered all your questions.
No more of this!
Oh yeah, don't ever call me a monster.

Matt

[ParileseMonster]

Delete, Delete , Delete oh you people, tsk tsk!



[This message has been edited by ParileseMonster (edited 09-13-2001).]

[ParileseMonster]

Oh no another one.



[This message has been edited by ParileseMonster (edited 09-13-2001).]

[ParileseMonster]

Another Delete, Im glad non of my posts were so foul with the language!



[This message has been edited by ParileseMonster (edited 09-13-2001).]

[JasonSlasher]

alright, jeez, we get the point! You can stop before you add on another page...
And now to bring the topic back to the topic, I think what he did was sick and discusting and wouldn't go within an inch of him. But his movies, quite the opposite.
And I think that the kid had the knoweladge of this whole thing, especially since he's mature enough to star in this movie! But what's been done has been been done, and all we can do now is decide what to do about it.
i.e. nothing!

[ParileseMonster]

Sorry Jason for all the static! I respect your opinion and I hope the others do not want to start going at it with you for what you just said. I never thought my comments would cause anyone to get so bent out of shape and make me into something I am not.
Peace Out Already

[This message has been edited by ParileseMonster (edited 09-12-2001).]

[psycho-man_666]

Okay I really don't understand u. I mean you're the one who keep on with the personnal insult. Me I just didn't agree with you that's all. What's wrong with you do you always act like this, jump on the case of everybody when you're not happy about something they said.

Get the fuck out of my case!! Tell me girl you have a problem with me being on this site? Cause me I don't have one with you being on here so why don't you stop your little fucking game!

Now if I misunderstood what you've said there's a lot of different way to tell me cause sayin all this shit about me doesn't prove any of your point. It prove the fact that your a childish woman. Now if you want to answer this, send me a fucking E mail and give a fucking break to those who have nothing to do with that.

PS: If you want me to take you seriously explain yourself without bitching me. I HATE that.

[psycho-man_666]

Now I'm done with that and by the way parilise I never said you were MONSTER. Now we can go on with the subject...I hope!

[ParileseMonster]

Deleted original message. I know I am a good person and meant nothing bad in my previous comment on this boards topic. It is a pathetic waste of time to fight and it is a waste of time to talk about contraversial things like this. Stress can cause all sorts of problems so for those of you who seek to wage war and argue I suggest you cool it for your own sake! If you still think I was soooooo bad for my comment you can get bent and go to hell!

[This message has been edited by ParileseMonster (edited 09-13-2001).]

[JasonSlasher]

Here it goes again...

[ParileseMonster]

I took it upon myself to willingly delete my lengthy posts on this board. I have better things to do than argue with two judgemental people I do not even know. I realize this now. I will always defend myself against those who falsely and harshly judge me. Topics like these are a headache waiting to happen, I am removing myself from such topics they are a waste of time and energy. In a world full of recent fighting, I have decided not to fight about silly topics or with silly people. Time is precious to me now and I am going to live it to its fullest as peacefully as I can. We have been recently reminded that you never know how much time you really have here on earth, make the most of your time while you still have time to be had.

[This message has been edited by ParileseMonster (edited 09-13-2001).]

[The Heart Collector]

Why don't you stand by your comments?

[This message has been edited by The Heart Collector (edited 12-04-2001).]

[JasonSlasher]

Oh no, please just ignore that guy's post and pretend it was never there, I really don't want another argument to start...

[psycho-man_666]

Let's just cut that fucking bullshit and stick to the point O.K!!!! That's over now everythings cool so let's move to something else!!!

[michael myers 666]

Victor Salva did a very very henous thing. But he also served his time. 18 months of a 4 year sentence, and the only reaosn he was let out was because representatives said he had understood what he had done as wrong, and said he had made a good come back. Personally, that wont stop me from seeing films I like very much. I liked Powder. I loved Jeepers Creepers.

OJ Simpson may have killed 2 people.
Do you avoid The Naked Gun movies?

Roman Polanksi raped (statutory) a 16 year old girl.
Do you avoid Rosemary's Baby, The Tenant, and The Ninth Gate?

Snoop Doggy Dog was charged with murder.
Did you avoid Bones?


It makes you think. I think he has served his time. I think he has learned his lesson.
I'm not condoning what he did as right, obviously the young boy must suffer everytime Salva releases a new movie, but if the proper officials feel that he is fine and people are willing to work with him, then that should be enough for everyone are not directly involved.

[gayhorrorgeek]

Good Point. The folks that are angry at Mr. Salva (in this post) have a hard time commenting on Snoop, OJ, Roman, and others because molestation when it's two members of the same gender makes them extremely uneasy. Somehow, Roman's crime seems less harsh because it was a girl he took advantage of. I certainly think that Victor Salva committed a terrible crime, but I don't think it's any worse than some of the other people listed above. I think it is unfortunate that we are so much more angry at Mr. Salva because he is (most likely) gay. I guess I'm biased, though.

[Seph]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by michael myers 666:


Snoop Doggy Dog was charged with murder.
Did you avoid Bones?


</font>

I avoided bones, but not cause of that, bad word of mouth...

but on the reals, being CHARGED with something and being found guilty are two completely different things.

[Seph]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The Heart Collector:
Why don't you stand by your comments?

[This message has been edited by The Heart Collector (edited 12-04-2001).]</font>

good quest.... anyway, I think Salva's a sicko, yet he served his time, and there's no way you can tell me he didn't feel the wrath in prison. In general, rapists get it bad when they hit the pen, minimum security or not, and child molesters? Like I said, there's no way you can tell me he didn't get it bad already, and deservedly so. Then again, it wasn't my kid, and honestly, I care, but you can't really make a call like that unless it's been something that personally affects you. I can talk all day about Salva, either he should or shouldn't be allowed to make movies. So yeah, I watched jeepers creepers (wasn't all that impressed by the by), but let's say it had been one of my nephews, I'd probably be serving time for murder 2 right about now.

[Stefan]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dehydrator:
I would really like to know Nathan Forrest Winter's opinion about this. He's the one who's life is ruined. If he forgives Salva, I will think of seeing the movie. But I'm sure he can't.

[This message has been edited by Dehydrator (edited 08-29-2001).]</font>

Dehydrator, Participating in Ain't It Cool talk backs, I learned second hand from somebody reporting that as long as Salva doesn't work with any kids Nathan Forrest winters doesn't care if Salva continues to make movies. Secondly, he wishes that everyone would leave this matter in the past. As for forgiving Salva, I don't know. Don't believe me you can go to Aint It Cool News talkback for "Jeepers Creepers 2." That is where somebody reported it.

Joblo, when "Powder" came out, Salva said he deeply regretted his actions and put it behind him. Don't believe me, you can read about it at www.vachss.com/mission/disney.htm/. (http://www.vachss.com/mission/disney.htm/.) Whether it was because he got caught, or caused pain, or because of the public backlash he got, I will never know. I am willing to bet that it was because he caused pain since we have not heard about him doing it again.

As to those thinking that it was consensual, you [b]could[b] be right. Again on Ain't It Cool News talk back somebody reporting what [i]truly[i] happened, said it was consensual and that Salva is gay and [b]not[b] a pedophile. This person also says there is no evidence to suggest that he will repeat this crime. This person reporting it by the way is [b]not[b] a pro Salva person. This person thinks molesters [b]are[b] the worst scum and he is unforgiving of pedophilia. This person simply wanted all the people to know the [b]true[b] story of what happened. I knew somebody who had sex as early as ten years, so Nathan Winters consenting to sex is still [b]not[b] out of the question. Does not make what happened right or o.k. Statutory rape still is a felony [b]but[b] I don't view Salva as a monster or nearly as bad a scumbag as somebody that forces [i] actual[i] rape on somebody. So if we are going to savage and condemn Salva let us [i] at least[i] get our facts strait. It was statutory rape (I think [i]not[i] a hundred percent sure) and not [b]actual[b] rape. I think the fact the person reporting this still unforgiving Salva is telling the truth. He was right about people that have worked with Salva commenting on what a wonderful person Salva is. Don't believe me read it up for yourself www.aintitcool.com/tb_display.cgi? (http://www.aintitcool.com/tb_display.cgi?) and also id9274#304596. Your gonna have to type it in yourself folks, can't get the U.B.B. code to work properly. Scroll down for a while. Look for a person by the name of Galt1970 with the subject of Salva's crime. Scroll down a little bit more for a detailed explanation by the same person Galt1970.

Why are we stressing over Salva anyways. He is [b]not[b] the first molester working in the movie field. Charlie Chaplin had sex with tons of underage woman. Cary Grant was rumored to like little boys. Somebody mentioned that James Whale had an affair with a fifteen year old boy. So Salva [b] isn't[b] the first to do this. So Salva is a piece of crap but Walt Disney is a saint!?! I wonder what would people think if we knew all of Walt Disney's life. Like how he paid his artists so cheap, was greedy, gave his artists no credit for their work, and was a nasty and unpleasant dictator to work for. HE was an abusive alcoholic, verbally abuse his wife, indulged in spanking his kids, and was rumored to be involved in child slavery and pornography. I wish this one web site was still running so I could show you some more.

Seriously there is [b]a lot [b] of immorality in the movie industry. I couldn't watch "The Terminator" series, "Aliens," "True Lies," if I actually cared (which I don't) if James Cameron was an adulterer. NO more early Bond films because Sean Connery was a woman beater. Same thing if I cared if Jean Cleude Van Damme was one too. No more "Speed" because Dennis Hopper was a women beater also. [b] Seriously [b] people if I listened to every bad thing or unacceptable social behavior that would leave me with nothing [b] but [b] but documentaries and b movies. Besides big name actors are greedy also and greed is a deadly sin if you are knowledgeable about the Bible. Let's not forget Don Henley was busted once for soliciting sex to an underage prostitute. Jack Nicholson, Chritian Slater have also beated woman. Fatty Artbuckle killed someone in a nasty way with a coke bottle.

T.V. isn't much different folks. If I cared about morality in television sitcoms too, than I couldn't watch "Friends" or "Ally Mathew" because Mathew Perry and Robert Downey Jr. did drugs. No more "Home Improvement" because Tim Allen used to deal drugs. No more "Seinfeld" because Seinfeld dated a married woman. So all this immorality in the movie and t.v. industry and people seem to only care about pedophilia and not any of the other bad things people have done in the movie industry. I have learned to tolerate movie for it's art form and not care about the bad things that people have done. I think it is hypocritical to fuss over pedophilia and tolerate the bad and illegal behavior of others in the industry. If you want to dwell about the bad things in the movie industry, then boycott movie studios that have been around since the forties for having ties to the mob back in the black and white film days. 20th Century fox had some heavy mob involvement. Disney had some ties to the Mishputka (Jewish maggia).

As for Salva, if people are so against him working as a director, where should he work then? Would it be a good idea to work in a fast food place or grocery bagger and come in contact with kids every day? I think not. At least with his directing job he [b]won't[b] be working with any kids. If he has reformed, repented, owned up to the crime, and staying away from deviant behavior, than I forgive him. [b] Despite [b] having a close encounter with a molester, I have no ill will or hatred towards Victor Salva who seems to have moved on in his life. Stefan's out.

[ParileseMonster]

Just when you thought this topic was dead..... It was brought back to life once again and again explained and responded to relentlessly until the point where it has grown tired so can we close this topic now? Forever without any sequels????? http://www.joblo.com/ubb/tongue.gif

[davesfsu]

Hey get this, I knew Nathan Winters in junior high school. He actually lived down the street from me, and as I got to know him, he let me in on what happened to him. Needless to say, I hate Victor Salva. I am pissed off that this pedophile got money out of me too. I just finished watching Jeepers Creepers with my gf tonight and I just freaked out when at the end I found out it was Victor Salva. Guys, I would not have rented it if I had known. As much as I believe in art and free expression, this is a little too close to the nerve. This guy (Victor) is a crook, and frankly so is Coppola for that matter. I knew Nathan's family and saw what they had to go through to fight all of this. Believe me, it's not fun. The legal battles alone was overwhelming and Nathan's family were DIRT poor. (Victor was backed by Coppola all the way, and now look who produced it). As a young guy in junior high school, it was not the easiest thing to deal with either. And even I was feeling pressure not to hang out with him because some idiots thought he was a fag for what happened to him. And the sad thing is, Nathan was tweaked from this experience in unimaginable ways. I remember he was being accused by skeptics around him, the media, even Coppala himself about his 'willingness' or whether Nathan wanted money from Victor. If you guys knew the situation, this sort of thing was the last thing he wanted. What he wanted was a future in acting, that is all. And blowing the whistle on the director killed his future, and only postponed the future of Victor Salva. Notice, Nathan played lead in both of Victors first two movies. Victor was considered family with the Winters, like a trusted uncle and knew Winters when he was much younger than 12 and "believed" in Nathan. That has to screw you up in the head to be betrayed and violated like that. Sorry, but 15 months is not enough. During the day Victor wrote his next script, and during the night he got ass raped, which I am sure he enjoyed. He needs to suffer, he needs to fail in his career, otherwise, just like the movie goes, the boy dies a slow death and the monster prevails.

[Dehydrator]

JEEPERS CREEPERS is in germany's cinemas since the begin of the year. And I'm happy to say it tanks BAD!

I told most of my friends of what Salva has done ( just that, I didn't say : Don't watch the movie ) and they then deceided that they wouldn't see the movie. I don't think that is enough to keep this piece of shit from making money but the world would suck a bit less if it did. ( Sorry for my bitching, I'm having my offical day of complete misanthrophy ).

My opinion about salva isn't bothered because it's reported on ain't-it-cool-news that Winters doesn't mind him making other movies. If it's true than it smells like Winters wanting to draw a line behind the past knowing that if his situation apperantly doesn't mean shit to a whole lot of people.
With the knowledge of this movie being directed by a child-molester who already made an awful lot of money with it I can happily deceide to skip it.

[This message has been edited by Dehydrator (edited 01-14-2002).]

[XCoRyX]

while clownhouse is my favorite movie salva is a jerkoff for doing what he did but... as some one said,all winters wanted was a future in acting...why cant he do movies now?I know he might be scared or ashamed or what not but still...by the way for the guy who said he knew him...hows some proof?

[ukdavid]

Are justice system says he has served his time. So legally he has the right to make his films. But hopfully he can not work with minors. I just wish I would have know he directed Jeepers Creepers before I rented it. I hate the idea that I gave this animal my money.

[fantomas]

It's my first post in this Forum...
I'm French and living in a suburb of Paris. A French TV channel just showed "Clownhouse" this evening and I really liked this film. Just some months ago I saw "Powder" and really enjoyed this film too. I learned about the "Salva case" just after I saw "Powder". This didn't affected my pleasure in watching "Clownhouse". The so-called "nude kids" scenes are rather harmless and, having seen thousands of European films, I was not at all embarassed by them. Perhaps we have a different perception, due to our cultures... I have read all the posts in this topic before writing my own message, and was sometimes astonished by the violence of some reactions. Just some remarks:
Some people tell that a 12-year old boy is "unable" to analyze correctly a situation. But, when a 12-year old other boy kills some other children in a school, other people ask the electric chair, no less, for him.
In some countries, the "legal" age for sexual relations is younger than in America. In Venezuela for instance, the legal age is 12 !!!
To force a children to unwanted sexual acts is of course a rape, but a rape is horrible even if the victim is 20, 30, 40 or 90... It's horrible to force a children to these acts, but every day, young childs are killed in war, dying of starvation, or AIDS, etc. I'm under the impression that, for some people, to have a fellatio is worse than to be killed by a air raid...
So of course Victor Salva, who is a very talented director, must continue to direct films. Many people read the books written by André Gide, and, as everyone must know, Gide was also a pedophile. And I also agree with the guy who wrotes that the fact Salva and the young actor were both male is considered as an aggraving fact by some people. If a woman director had "molested" a 13-years boy, it would be considered as a joke, or a "good fortune" for the boy.

[ParileseMonster]

Jesus, I see this topic reared it's ugly head again, why does it not just die! die! die!!!!!!

[fantomas]

I just "started again" this topic because I can have a different point-of-view. When I read some posts, it seems ridiculous to see people asking for lifetime jail, castration, perhaps even death penalty, for someone who had sexual relations with a boy, even young. So, what would be the penalty for a child KILLER ? And some of these people wear T-shirts with a portrait of Ed Gein !

[dane]

Truth of the matter is your probably putting money in lots of pedofile pockets. So why feel bad because you know of one of them. Its a little late dontcha think. By the way the camera man was a rapist, the screenwriter was a prostitute, The proofreader sacrifices
animals to the god Bilal. But you dont know about them. So it doesnt matter.
and I hate woody allen not because of the step daughter thing. But because he sucks as a director.

[fantomas]

I totally agree with you, Dane, and you put it in a far better English than mine!!!
This kind of things is unavoidable; even in simply walking in a street, you cross the way of all kind of people, including psycho-killers, rapists, pickpockets, etc. I have no intent to investigate on private lives of films directors when I'm going to movies, or writers when I buy a book... My only criteria is the quality of the film, or book. "Munchhausen" (1943, directed by Josef von Baky) was a production of the Third Reich (and Hitler and his clique were infinitely worse than any Hollywood film director!) - but it remains a masterpiece.

[dane]

What was Munchausen about? I know of it as a syndrome if I,m correct its when a person becomes institutionalized, and strts to become completley dependant on the institution for all their needs.Even to the point of not even being willing to feed them self. To some degree its giving in completley. Sorry off topic

[Dr Martin Luther Loomis]

Bumparama.

[ICP RULZ]

Ok,my thoughts on this is that he should not be allowed to make films. When he did that shit to Nathan he knew the consequences of what will happen if he does it. He was fully aware of what was going to happen. I think it is completly fair that he should never again be allowed to make films.

P.S.

3 Years is not enough for fucking up someones life and I hope Salva got gang raped a whole bunch of times by other inmates jsut so he can see/feel what it is like

[bulletproof]

Its really Fucked up what he did,and I would not let him alone with my nieces and nephews for a minute!But if the man paid his debt to Society and he shows no signs whatsoever,then let him be!

[ICP RULZ]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by bulletproof:
Its really Fucked up what he did,and I would not let him alone with my nieces and nephews for a minute!But if the man paid his debt to Society and he shows no signs whatsoever,then let him be!</font>

Ya,he has paid his debt. But I still dont think he should be allowed to. He knew the consequences(sp?) when he commited the act and now he should have to live with it.

[bulletproof]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ICP RULZ:
Ok,my thoughts on this is that he should not be allowed to make films. When he did that shit to Nathan he knew the consequences of what will happen if he does it. He was fully aware of what was going to happen. I think it is completly fair that he should never again be allowed to make films.

P.S.

3 Years is not enough for fucking up someones life and I hope Salva got gang raped a whole bunch of times by other inmates jsut so he can see/feel what it is like</font>

I hear ya ICP.I hope that sicko got tossed around like a piece of fresh meat!!!And 3 years is no WAY anywhere close to what he should have gotten!

[The_Driller_Killer]

Well, I sort of posted on this issue before. I agree that Victor Salva DID ruin Nathan Forrest Winters' life (he even protested JEEPERS CREEPERS during production) and I think it is deeply depressing. It's just sad that Salva made such great movies as CLOWNHOUSE and JEEPERS CREEPERS and there has to be such controversy surrounding them. In my opinion, I don't feel that the movie-goers should forgive his acts, but just sit back and enjoy the films he makes. He may be a sick guy, but he does make some good flicks. It would be a shame for the public never to see them. Also, 15 months is HARDLY paying your debt to society, especially after what he did to that poor boy (who never made another movie or even acted again after CLOWNHOUSE), but let's just try and concentrate on the more important issue at hand: the films. His personal life has absolutely nothing to do with his work, so just try and let it go, I guess.

[ICP RULZ]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The_Driller_Killer:
. His personal life has absolutely nothing to do with his work, so just try and let it go, I guess.</font>

Actualy when you rape or whatever you want to call it someone when you are making your film,that becomes a mix between his personnal life and his work. I feel sick fucks like this one should be locked away because 3 years aint shit. And I thought ClownHouse was ok,but the pictures of boy running around i underwear was enough to make me feel like I could'ev thrown up.