Tragic Stars? They Do It To Themselves (And That's What Really Hurts).

[Reigh Kaufman]

My girlfriend is a River Phoenix fanatic. She even owns A Night In The Life Of Jimmy Reardon (she is that devoted). The other day, though, we were talking about Chris Farley (the topic came up during a David Spade stand-up performance, not one of their crappy movies) and she said that if he was going to take drugs he should face the consequences, which sadly in his case, was death. Now, I can see a counter-argument in the case of River Phoenix, but being as smart as I am I know that to point out this obvious parallel would result in a massive argument and a sleeping on the sofa situation (she likes it on the sofa -hahaha). So what is the difference? And do we have any sympathy for the tragic stars who burn themselves out?

Discuss.

[The Postmaster General]

the only difference I see for most people all comes down to whether or not they like the performer.


people say that self-destructive stars "deserve what they get", but what makes them deserve to have the living talk trash about them?

[Grebdron]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BubbaStrangelove:
the only difference I see for most people all comes down to whether or not they like the performer.


people say that self-destructive stars "deserve what they get", but what makes them deserve to have the living talk trash about them? </font>

Well, them deciding to make their living off of the movie going public and to live their life in the public eye is what makes them deserve it. If they had wanted their privacy while they were living, flip burgers. No one will talk about you. And in answer to the topic question, yes they deserve what happens to them. I am currently facing the consequences of my drug addiction, it just happens that their consequences were more dire. Had I continued down that path, I would have perished young also, and would have been the only person to blame for it.

[Horror_chick]

As much as I like River Phoenix, I agree that he did do it to himself. And I'm not "talking trash" but it is common knowledge that if you take too many drugs, there is a large chance you will od. It is sad that he got himself into the situation in the first place, I know plenty of people who use drugs, but in such a manner to not kill themselves, but any person should know better.

[The Postmaster General]

Lemme give you an example of how celebs don't always do it to themselves -- what if Drew Barrymore wasn't as lucky as she is and died.


what I meant by the "trash talking" is that my philosophy is that once someone is dead, all bets are off. Let them rest. Which matters more to us? the fact that they are dead, or the fact that they did drugs.

for me it is the fact that they are dead, because they still made movies while on drugs, so that wasn't necessarily what stopped them from making more movies.

i know it is paradoxal, but death really overshadows everything. i've always respected the person, not the thing that put them in the grave.

I have no idea what River Pheonix went through, so I can't make a judgement on his lifestyle. what I can surely say is that I'm wishing he was still here to do what I know him best for. i didn't even know he used drugs until he died from them.


Farely was hard, though, because we all watched it slowly happen. http://www.joblo.com/ubb/frown.gif


I'm waiting for someone else to mention Cobain.

[This message has been edited by BubbaStrangelove (edited 09-10-2002).]

[Reigh Kaufman]

See, Cobain was my idol but I see things with him as being just a little different because, and don't all shout at once, Phoenix professed a lifestyle that was utter bullshit. From what I've read of his upbringing, and how it was suppose to remarkably boheme, and then what I have read from the actors and directors who worked with him (Reiner says he used to sneak off to eat a mars bar, something his parents disapproved off. Peter Weir says virtually the same thing about cans of cola) he was telling us one thing and doing another. Now, whilst I don't condemn him for eating a mars bar - who would? - he was also vehemently anti-drugs and spoke out against them on several high-profile occassions. Cobain didn't (though, for a while, he denied using). It's this tiny fact about Phoenix that, when he died on the pavement, made me more angry than the loss of one of my favourite young actors -- he bullshitted it to ridiculous lengths. Samantha Morton, who was there that night, has since said that the myth of Phoenix dying after his first attempt is nonsense, as has Peter Weir.

I don't know about you guys, but I miss them both. Cobain because he was the first musician from my generation that I admired, Phoenix because he had brilliance in him in almost all of his works (yes, even Silent Tongue). As for Farley, well, I never folowed his career - and when he died I was genuinely surprised because I knew nothing of his deterioration. In actual fact, I thought he died of heart failure until I found out much later on.

[The Postmaster General]

i am a huge Nirvana fan. the band blew-up right as I was a teen starting my own band. I had everything I could find (this was before I was on-line, making it fanatic). And I was lucky enough to see the band live a few months before it happened. (yes, I'm braggin')

however, I look at Cobain's lifestyle with the same eyes that I look at Phoenix'. They were entertainers. Neither were my personal druge supplier, nor my NA sponsor.

so i see their habits the same -- inconsequential to my role in the relationship.

If Cobain had died from racing cars, the result would have been the same - no more new music. Sad, but only because they are dead. Not because they were users. I think it is important to seperate the two.

if we are giving examples of how drugs can destory lives -- okay, then Cobain and Phoenix' drug lifestyles should be examined. But we all already know the tragic effects of use and abuse.

everything doesn't have to be "I told you so." and "they should have known better."

That is where the trash talking comes in -- what good does it do to mention that they royally f-ed up?

Now granted, when it comes time to talk to my kids (knock on wood - no pun indicating I'm going for artifiscial insemination) YES - when i talk to kids about how such things will destroy you, I will use Cobain and Phoenix more-or-less as role models (that's what they are... the model of the tragic star), but not faceless examples.

You have to keep it real. These were people who made bad choices. EVERYONE here makes bad choices.

And I don't agree about them being in the public eye making them targets for "trash talking" -- that's society's rule not mine. I'm a rebel! (haha)

[This message has been edited by BubbaStrangelove (edited 09-10-2002).]

[edonline]

Chris Farley always admired John Belushi. I think he was even quoted as saying something to the effect of "I'll probably wind up like him in the end". With a statement like that, it more or less seals your fate.

[aixela]

This is a hard topic-yes these stars know what they were doing to themselves and they knew possible consequences but even if I don't like a person (not a big Nirvana fan here), I still don't want to see them die. To me it is still sad to hear about a movie or recording star dying especially at the young ages even if they did bring it on themselves in a sense.

[Grebdron]

I gotta say, who fucking cares if a celebrity kicks the bucket doing drugs. Do you have any idea how many homeless veterans die every day because they are addicted to drugs? And you know what? You can actually do something about that. You can volunteer your time, money and energy and make a difference in someone's life everyday. These celebrities don't give two shits about you, so why shed a tear for them? Go help someone on the street and make a friend forever.

[Buck Turgidson]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Reigh Kaufman:
See, Cobain was my idol but I see things with him as being just a little different because, and don't all shout at once, Phoenix professed a lifestyle that was utter bullshit. From what I've read of his upbringing, and how it was suppose to remarkably boheme, and then what I have read from the actors and directors who worked with him (Reiner says he used to sneak off to eat a mars bar, something his parents disapproved off. Peter Weir says virtually the same thing about cans of cola) he was telling us one thing and doing another. Now, whilst I don't condemn him for eating a mars bar - who would? - he was also vehemently anti-drugs and spoke out against them on several high-profile occassions. Cobain didn't (though, for a while, he denied using). It's this tiny fact about Phoenix that, when he died on the pavement, made me more angry than the loss of one of my favourite young actors -- he bullshitted it to ridiculous lengths. Samantha Morton, who was there that night, has since said that the myth of Phoenix dying after his first attempt is nonsense, as has Peter Weir.

I don't know about you guys, but I miss them both. Cobain because he was the first musician from my generation that I admired, Phoenix because he had brilliance in him in almost all of his works (yes, even Silent Tongue). As for Farley, well, I never folowed his career - and when he died I was genuinely surprised because I knew nothing of his deterioration. In actual fact, I thought he died of heart failure until I found out much later on. </font>


I was not a big fan of Kurt's (I only ever truly loved one Nirvanna song), and I actively disliked Shannon Hoon. On the other hand, I really always liked Layne Staley's voice and the energy he brought to his music. All three of those men were my age, give or take a year, and now they're all gone. Really, in all of these cases, it's just the fact that they're not around anymore that's the thing that hurts (or is, at least, not natural.)

Reigh has a good point about River's double life. It doesn't diminsh him, or make him weak, (in my mind at least), that he had a problem. I just sort of resent being lied to. In the end, it's really no skin off of my nose, but all the same...I don't like having smoke blown up my ass. Starting abuse of drugs is a choice, but it gets away from you pretty fast after that.

For the most part, I'm not all that anxious to assess blame when something like this happens. It doesn't too much good, and it often causes pain to their loved ones or fans.

[Jason Voorhees]

I think perhaps the greatest tragedy and truism in history is humankind's inherent duress to destroy itself... Regardless of who it is and the circumstances, This always saddens me.